EPT[G] PvP 11gate into 3gate press - Page 12
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quickclickz
United States81 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8232 Posts
On January 14 2012 01:06 quickclickz wrote: Dunno what took me so long to find something like this but I'll it the second I get home and will probably end up thanking you anyways so here it is in advance. My PvP win rate is so bad that I don't even remember the last time i won (not exaggerating). Thank you so much for this and seeing as I'm a plat player I'll do 20 runs on yacob before I even try to do it on ladder. Thanks Sorry to break it to you, but this build doesn't really work as good as it used to. Sure it can be used for the occasional cheesy win, but it wont raise your winrate exceptionally on the ladder (not if you're nearing master level at least). edit: Just to make it clear I'm not just talking trash. This used to be my gotobuild in PvP for the longest time. I've stopped using it when I realized it had started giving me a lot more losses than wins. | ||
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CryMore
United States497 Posts
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Treehead
999 Posts
On January 11 2012 01:08 Alejandrisha wrote: I'm opening this one up to you guys. If you think your 4gate is good, shoot me a pm and I'd be happy to stamp it out with this build :D And your replays will go right here! Also if you have the the 11gate into 3 gate pressure build down pretty well, I'd like to run this against that a bunch of times as well. from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302117 | ||
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GoStu
Canada60 Posts
Also, with some updates to the map pool and more maps with secondary ramps, I think this is a lot more situational than it used to be. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8232 Posts
On January 14 2012 17:10 GoStu wrote: I've been trying this for my last few PvP's; having no luck. I don't think I'm good enough to pull it off. The timings are pretty razor-thin, and the micro really demanding. When he says mechanically rigorous, he means it. Also, with some updates to the map pool and more maps with secondary ramps, I think this is a lot more situational than it used to be. Yeah, its not completely unviable, but its more of a cheese than anything else. Of course, it doesn't hurt to have HuK's micro abilities. but even then you'll end up in situations where your opponent has gotten sentries out and can just keep blocking the ramp forever. On January 14 2012 04:12 Treehead wrote: Just wanted to point this out from the other of Alej's PvP threads. If someone here has this rush down, give him a hand seeing whether this walks over one of his newer tech builds or not. from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=302117 Would love to but I don't have an NA account right at this moment. | ||
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
On January 14 2012 17:10 GoStu wrote: I've been trying this for my last few PvP's; having no luck. I don't think I'm good enough to pull it off. The timings are pretty razor-thin, and the micro really demanding. When he says mechanically rigorous, he means it. Also, with some updates to the map pool and more maps with secondary ramps, I think this is a lot more situational than it used to be. The timings are thin but they aren't too hard to approach with practice. Probably the most important thing is setting some mental triggers for your chronoboosts. i.e. gateway -> start probe : chronoboost nexus core finished -> start warpgate : chronoboost core 23 probe -> 2nd gas : chronoboost core 23 2nd gate : chronoboost core -> 3rd gate 24 pylon : chronoboost core start low ground proxy pylon and mineral walk up ramp : chronoboost core -> 2nd proxy pylon | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On January 16 2012 04:15 Jaeger wrote: The timings are thin but they aren't too hard to approach with practice. Probably the most important thing is setting some mental triggers for your chronoboosts. i.e. gateway -> start probe : chronoboost nexus core finished -> start warpgate : chronoboost core 23 probe -> 2nd gas : chronoboost core 23 2nd gate : chronoboost core -> 3rd gate 24 pylon : chronoboost core start low ground proxy pylon and mineral walk up ramp : chronoboost core -> 2nd proxy pylon very true. important enough to add to op ty! | ||
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Swap
Sweden144 Posts
If you're having a hard time to nail the build down due to lack of minerals, just skip the second assimilator until after 3 gates. I do that quite often when I feel that my mining isnt perfect. With this build, I usually only loose to strange cannonrushes or proxygates due to late scouting. So annoying. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13392 Posts
On February 07 2012 00:26 Swap wrote: I really like this build. It beats both 4gate and the latest anti-4-gate builds at my level (high diamond/low master). If you're having a hard time to nail the build down due to lack of minerals, just skip the second assimilator until after 3 gates. I do that quite often when I feel that my mining isnt perfect. With this build, I usually only loose to strange cannonrushes or proxygates due to late scouting. So annoying. Im about the same level and I can't outright win vs a 4 gate. If they went mad chrono on the cybercore then they can warp in some 20 seconds after I do and they at that point can outproduce me. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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jestlolk
62 Posts
I still don't have a favourite tech follow-up though, and I have tried everything. I think I've had the most success with 4 gate blink behind this trying to kill based on the advantage that I get from the probe kills on the pressure. I find that if I go 3 gate blink robo I give them too long to catch back up from any damage I might have inflicted, while not having enough to attempt a kill move if they are still turtling in their base with immortals. Does anybody have a really solid idea of how to secondary scout on this build and then which tech path they like the most? I did try to do chargelot archon for a while based on how many people go Robo to try to be safe after the pressure, but it backfires when they get an obs out and scout. They just get a building choke started in from of their natural expand and it becomes incredibly difficult to win. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On March 02 2012 10:25 jestlolk wrote: I'm still having pretty decent success with this build, 60% winrate in the last 2 weeks against mostly mid masters. Most of the losses are due to poor scouting of a proxy-gateway rush or a cannon rush. I usually feel impervious to cannon rushes because of how quickly you can cb a zealot. Losses come when I fail to scout the first cannon before it completes. Everything else you can punish pretty hard. I've had people try to gas steal my a decent amount recently and I usually just use those minerals on a 4th gate and all-in them, since they just wasted the minerals to gas steal. I still don't have a favourite tech follow-up though, and I have tried everything. I think I've had the most success with 4 gate blink behind this trying to kill based on the advantage that I get from the probe kills on the pressure. I find that if I go 3 gate blink robo I give them too long to catch back up from any damage I might have inflicted, while not having enough to attempt a kill move if they are still turtling in their base with immortals. Does anybody have a really solid idea of how to secondary scout on this build and then which tech path they like the most? I did try to do chargelot archon for a while based on how many people go Robo to try to be safe after the pressure, but it backfires when they get an obs out and scout. They just get a building choke started in from of their natural expand and it becomes incredibly difficult to win. i personally like to follow up with robo and just play extremely safe. this might not be the best course of action, though. assuming you use your early unit advantage to get a worker advantage, going robo is the safe course of action. you need to be able to know if they are expanding. if they are expanding, you need to expand quickly behind them or just try to kill them with some non-robo route. a blink follow up after the build is the best to ensure a kill if they expand after dealing with your aggression, but playing blink into a non-expanding player is obviously not as free-win. i don't have a lot of experience playing blink-expand against robo, so i can't help you out much there. | ||
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Stopher
United States38 Posts
However, I've been scouting at 11 Gateway and then dropping Core at 14 then putting workers on gas, getting a zealot after que'ing two probes. I find this lets me scout for cheese better, and the gas lines up with the stalker nicely! Is this an acceptable variance, or by doing this am I missing something really important? Thanks a millions! EDIT: Derp, this isn't 12 gate you fool TT | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On March 04 2012 15:34 Stopher wrote: This build has been my go-to PvP build for a while, and I like it alot! However, I've been scouting at 11 Gateway and then dropping Core at 14 then putting workers on gas, getting a zealot after que'ing two probes. I find this lets me scout for cheese better, and the gas lines up with the stalker nicely! Is this an acceptable variance, or by doing this am I missing something really important? Thanks a millions! EDIT: Derp, this isn't 12 gate you fool TT i have been scouting earlier in pvp for a little bit more info but i don't know if i would advise it for this build. i only use this build on maps where it is strong ie metal and shattered. on shattered i've been scouting on 14/15 pylon.. for this build in particular--in which you want that core dropped asap-- i would advise not scouting on gate. | ||
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SaroVati
Canada280 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
http://drop.sc/135995 should have lost this one, really. the rush does not damage but a few favorable engagements get me the win http://drop.sc/135996 rush nets me a 3 probe lead. he expands and we go for a 1 colo push sans range to end it http://drop.sc/135997 proxy gate into base trade situation! http://drop.sc/135998 opponent goes 2nd gas then 2nd + 3rd gate on 25 food. just kills http://drop.sc/125841 vs aggressive 4gate. faster wg timing helps me kill it with a defensive warp-in http://drop.sc/125735 vs risky/shoddy 2gate stargate build. just kills | ||
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Stopher
United States38 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On March 19 2012 11:56 Stopher wrote: Awesome replays, just wondering if there is a timing vs 3stalker rush that lets you sneak a probe in before the 2 stalkers come out but before the first one leaves? Thanks a millions! i wouldn't try to sneak that by, as you don't know if he's going to leave with the first talker or if he is going to leave his natural at all. i like to go in after all 3 would have left to get the best chance at a ninja scout. can't ever assume much.. i have seen aggression come from one of those 2nd gas before 2nd gate builds which shouldn't do anything but if you don't prepare for it you can suddenly be down a unit if you're being greedy | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
Also what do you do if you get your gas stolen? It doesn't seem like you have to time to kill it and still hit your timing at their ramp, so do you just ignore it? And what do you do with the freed up minerals? An extra probe or 2 or a 4th gate? | ||
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