EPT[G] PvP 11gate into 3gate press - Page 8
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Blastois3
United States3 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:31 Blastois3 wrote: Hi Alej, I like your guides on TL but I notice you don't have any for PvZ you should make one next! PvZ is too hard! :D I was thinking of doing a guide based on what I've been watching on killer's and hero's streams but I've been really busy lately. I will probably get to it eventually though  Most of it is pretty common stuff now, ffe/15nex -> +1 4 WG zealot pushes into warp prism, or the same opening can go straight into 1 SG phoenix play or even 2 SG play. If I do a guide on this it will take a while because there's a lot of stuff you can do off of the basic opening and a lot of stuff you have to react to | ||
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UmUmCookies
Australia7 Posts
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CaptainHaz
United States240 Posts
On November 09 2011 20:53 UmUmCookies wrote: this might sound like a stupid question - but is there anyway to turn this build into a really quick defensive 3 gate to take an early expo? This defeats the whole purpose of the build, you're not expanding behind pressure so when your expo gets scouted the other toss just has to move out and kill you it also isn't economically sound since you're rushing for a really fast warpgate research that isn't utilizing a timing window or anything of that sort. Basically a standard 4 gate would just kill you or even a delayed defensive 3 gate attack since they have a better economy to back up their push and a bigger army since your push never happened. | ||
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zeehar
Korea (South)3804 Posts
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tarrantius
Germany25 Posts
Probe Pull Replay http://replayfu.com/download/P33D5m Cant Upload the Sentry Replay Here i killed him with this Build http://replayfu.com/r/6MmL9k | ||
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Skillver
Austria1309 Posts
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Tossrock
United States2 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On November 10 2011 18:42 tarrantius wrote: Hi , i played this Build yesterday in the Playhem Daily cup against Axslav. He just pulled probes to kill my Pylons in the first game and in the third he had a Sentry + 2 Stalkers to block the ramp. Dunno what i did wrong. Probe Pull Replay http://replayfu.com/download/P33D5m Cant Upload the Sentry Replay Here i killed him with this Build http://replayfu.com/r/6MmL9k watching the first replay now on metal get the pylon before the core, you can still afford and you don't have to cut probes for that little bit of time and you got the gas before the stalker, which I kind of get since his probe was in your base but I still recommend getting the stalker first because it force you to cut probes even longer timing on the core wasn't that bad at all. get an inbase pylon on 24; i've also thought about proxyin this one, but if you do proxy it, put it in a VERY SAFE location that he wouldn't see if he just went for a counter. And on 2nd look it looks like you didn't even make that pylon. this pylon is very important!! Your approach at the ramp comes about 10 seconds late, which is a pretty big deal since he's able to get the 2nd stalker out before you get to the ramp and start warping in. I don't know if you can get a pylon above the ramp if he's already got 2 stalkers out unless he's not really paying attention. if you got that warpin you probably would have been able to get really far ahead, but that's that for ya tt I recommend getting the robo first as a follow up to this build as information is more important than prepping for a 2nd attack with blink or getting blink to defend, as an immortal is much better at defense vs blink all in that having your own blink | ||
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human_ko
Russian Federation676 Posts
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bankai
362 Posts
If they 4 gate, then assuming perfect execution this should win. If they do defensive builds, then either they are too defensive (in which case u get map control, but perhaps you are a probe or two behind) and if they are too risky (e.g. fast tech builds), then will straight up die. Therefore the only weakness is in the case of being a little behind on probe count (say 1-2probes) compared to other defensive builds? | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On November 22 2011 13:41 bankai wrote: Would you recommend this build as a 'standard' PvP opener? If they 4 gate, then assuming perfect execution this should win. If they do defensive builds, then either they are too defensive (in which case u get map control, but perhaps you are a probe or two behind) and if they are too risky (e.g. fast tech builds), then will straight up die. Therefore the only weakness is in the case of being a little behind on probe count (say 1-2probes) compared to other defensive builds? I wouldn't consider it a super standard build just because your probe scouting to check for gw proxies with your 11 scout can sometimes take so long that your core will go up closer to a 12gate timing, such as on xel'naga or shakuras. It's definitely not as hardy as a 12 gate in those situations. I would not say that it wins straight up against a 4gate with perfect execution, but it should allow you to beat if if they don't sneak a probe above your ramp and are able to warp directly into your base. I definitely use it as a standard opener because it is pretty much an auto-win against any kind of greedy build and sets me up nicely against non-greedy builds. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On November 22 2011 13:48 Alejandrisha wrote: I wouldn't consider it a super standard build just because your probe scouting to check for gw proxies with your 11 scout can sometimes take so long that your core will go up closer to a 12gate timing, such as on xel'naga or shakuras. It's definitely not as hardy as a 12 gate in those situations. I would not say that it wins straight up against a 4gate with perfect execution, but it should allow you to beat if if they don't sneak a probe above your ramp and are able to warp directly into your base. I definitely use it as a standard opener because it is pretty much an auto-win against any kind of greedy build and sets me up nicely against non-greedy builds. Cool, thanks for that! Time to start my 30 practices of this build then  | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
http://sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=16031 This one is on antigua. Always place your first pylon to scout for cannon rush, of course. But also always scout through the middle first or you'll lose to this kind of thing immediately. http://sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=16030 This one is on xel'naga. I've been able to use the 11g build by using my gateway or 2nd pylon or 1st gas probe to scout for in base proxies as well as checking the nat and behind the smoke before returning it to mine before actually scouting on 15. edit: added reps to op | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On November 24 2011 13:08 Alejandrisha wrote: Here are some replays of defending 2 gate proxies using this build http://sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=16030 This one is on antigua. Always place your first pylon to scout for cannon rush, of course. But also always scout through the middle first or you'll lose to this kind of thing immediately. http://sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=16030 This one is on xel'naga. I've been able to use the 11g build by using my gateway or 2nd pylon or 1st gas probe to scout for in base proxies as well as checking the nat and behind the smoke before returning it to mine before actually scouting on 15. edit: added reps to op i think both replays are the same So is it possible then to just use the probe that builds the 11th Gateway to scout and still reach all the target timings? If you use the probe to scout around the base and natural, is there much time for it to return to mining and instead just send it off to scout the opponent? | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
edit: fixed the replay links thanks for letting me know so quickly. The probe gets 20+ mins when it returns which helps soften the blow of scouting for proxies. using your gw probe to do it is safest as you definitely won't have started your core. Do that on xel'naga and shak as the proxy spots are closer. on antigua you can afford to do it later since the middle of the map is far enough away. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On November 24 2011 14:05 Alejandrisha wrote: oops! will fix in a min and update info edit: fixed the replay links thanks for letting me know so quickly. The probe gets 20+ mins when it returns which helps soften the blow of scouting for proxies. using your gw probe to do it is safest as you definitely won't have started your core. Do that on xel'naga and shak as the proxy spots are closer. on antigua you can afford to do it later since the middle of the map is far enough away. anytime, the least i can do to help  i watched the replay of the XNC proxy gates...was wondering, maybe im being paranoid, but in that replay the opponent set up the gates in a fairly easy to find location (i.e. just outside your natural) but didnt really hide it. I have played some games where they build proxies a bit further away but in much harder to find places (e.g. behind the 3rd on XNC). Previously I rely on a 9-pylon scout to 'find' this cos I reach their base early enough to realise there is nothing there and therefore its either a cannon rush or proxy gate (in either case, set up my own forge/cannon). How would you prevent something like this using this build? Sorry for all the questions, I just feel kinda unsafe by the fact that you dont get to scout their base before a 15-supply scout. | ||
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Jailbreaker
United States62 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + We make the 1st gate earlier! We make it on 11 at 1:25 as opposed to on 12 at 1:33. SO the target times are: Mine are: 11 Gate: 1:25_______________1:30 Cyber: 2:31______________2:36 1st warp in: 5:22______________5:35 How can I get that first gate 5 seconds earlier? This is my best time so far | ||
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Mstring
Australia510 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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