EPTI'm Diamond P, FWIW.
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The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 3
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
I'm Diamond P, FWIW. ??:0 | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
FFE map: After attempting a push at 9-11 minutes (near his third if he has one), if I see he is very well prepared for what I have am I to just retain my army and take my third? Let's say for instance I crash against enough roaches (with a 5 gate and 1 robo army) such that he is able to hold me off until 12 minutes rolls around, is the right course of action simply to adapt to what he is making while saturating the third (in this case throwing down a templar archives, and making another robotics for immortals)? I feel that if my push doesn't do enough damage his infestor + something mixture is able to hold off until broodlords... and they are never fun. And this is all assuming that the time between his defense of my first push and 20ish minutes when he can get broodlords is not peppered with instances of him overdroning. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On August 06 2011 00:38 Xahhk wrote: Is this thought process of mine more or less correct? FFE map: After attempting a push at 9-11 minutes (near his third if he has one), if I see he is very well prepared for what I have am I to just retain my army and take my third? Yes. Most games I actually plan for this and throw down my 3rd as I'm moving out with my army to attack his 3rd. | ||
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nichan
United States158 Posts
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1.01
61 Posts
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Tigi
Germany472 Posts
On August 06 2011 00:18 Anihc wrote: In mid-late game I far prefer having colossus over more chargelot/archon against chargelot/archon. Chargelot/archon is a great early-mid game composition but against a lot of colossus it will fail. If you're going robo and you're facing chargelot/archon, play defensively and use lots of buildings to wall off parts of your main, natural, etc. Just turtle until you can get a good number of colossus 3-4+ before pushing out. Then try not to get surrounded in the open. I disagree that Chargelot/archon will fail agains a lot of clossus. You're right about what the clossus player will do when he faces chargelot/archon and you're also right that his army gets way more scary with every colussus he adds. However due to the midgame advantage of the units and the fact that the colossus player has to stay back and turtle the Chargelot/Archon player is able to take a way quicker 3rd and can imo take a double forge easily and be ahead in upgrades. Also he has a more mobile army and imo can mix in DT's in lategame as well as Blinkstalker or Warprism (I feel that he can do all of this earlier than the colossus player and if he executes it well he'll be able to stay ahead). Sorry for my bad english, because i feel that it limites me as i can't explain the things like i would want to. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 05 2011 17:54 mcclurg wrote: Personally I like blinkstalker/chargelot/collosus with an observer forward of my army - when I see the infestors getting close, I blink on them so they can't neural parasite my collosi then they tend to clean everything up. I like Archon Stalker Sentry Zealot, then add in some Immortals after he attacks you, and you can just kill him if he roach switches as he'll be behind when the Infestor ling does no damage. | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
On August 06 2011 00:41 Anihc wrote: Yes. Most games I actually plan for this and throw down my 3rd as I'm moving out with my army to attack his 3rd. Thanks, but as you're build up your forces and keeping even on bases and upgrades, do you try to get an edge somehow with drops for instance? I'm not confident at all in facing down the end game zerg army (ie roach broodlord infestor). To take down the army do you just keep obs over his forces and: focus fire with voidrays attempt feedbacks avoid fungals and blink under broodlords (even if with a ton of roaches underneath) storm ...and spread to reduce 1 fungal hitting everything. or do you do the combination of above but try to catch broodlords slightly out of position? If you'd like could you throw down a good replay of you handling the zerg army decently like that? | ||
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
On August 06 2011 00:50 Tigi wrote: I disagree that Chargelot/archon will fail agains a lot of clossus. You're right about what the clossus player will do when he faces chargelot/archon and you're also right that his army gets way more scary with every colussus he adds. However due to the midgame advantage of the units and the fact that the colossus player has to stay back and turtle the Chargelot/Archon player is able to take a way quicker 3rd and can imo take a double forge easily and be ahead in upgrades. Also he has a more mobile army and imo can mix in DT's in lategame as well as Blinkstalker or Warprism (I feel that he can do all of this earlier than the colossus player and if he executes it well he'll be able to stay ahead). Sorry for my bad english, because i feel that it limites me as i can't explain the things like i would want to. When he says "a lot of colossus" he's talking 6+. When I face 6+ colossus, my Archon/Chargelot army melts; hence it's something to transition out of. The one exception is if you can get a flank on the Colossus player with a decent number of Chargelots and then sandwich from both sides; that can lead to amazingly lopsided, favorable results. But I would say in general that Chargelot/Archon is not a great lategame 200/200 army in PvP, and will get rolled by mass Colossus | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On August 06 2011 00:31 Snaphoo wrote: What is the optimal way to hold off a 3 Rax? If I FE I usually get rolled, and if I stay in my base (e.g. 1 Gate Robo) then he camps at my ramp and expands, and by the time I have Colossus out so as to break the contain, he's extremely far ahead. I'm Diamond P, FWIW. ??:0 Well if you go 1 gate robotics and you scout 3 rax you could just add two more gateways and go 3 gate + robo push. After you break the contain if there's one you could just poke/push him with your army and if you don't want to all-in just throw down expansion and try to deny his expansion if it's not still in his base or so. Be careful if he doesnt expand he can go fast medivacs or ghost, in either case I would recommend you to expand. But often times when I face 3 rax and I go 3 gate + robotics I can just counter push and kill him right away. | ||
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PaC_
Austria25 Posts
---------- Is 3-Gate Blink Stalker a opening to consider in PvP in general ? | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 06 2011 00:43 nichan wrote: what is the best way to apply pressure to a zerg early game can someone show me video. i try pushing early with a stalker zelot to snipe the queen and it works sometimes is there a better way or standard way to punish them early game? You can try this as long as he gas was delayed: I believe I talk about some other means of early game pressure as well. On August 06 2011 00:47 1.01 wrote: When executing a FFE, should my initial pylon be placed on the lowground in my natural, or at my ramp? Is this something that is map situational, or is there a *best* way to do it? Situational. If it's Tal'Darim, just FFE at the Nat since you'll really want that walloff. If it's Xel'Naga, up the ramp in case of 6 pool and the like. You'll usually place your pylon if you place it at the nat, behind where your wall would be. If you make it a part of your wall it will usually be focused on as a weak spot in the wall. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 06 2011 00:59 PaC_ wrote: What is the "correct" opening if I plan to go Archon/Chargelots in the midgame ? (PvP) ---------- Is 3-Gate Blink Stalker a opening to consider in PvP in general ? In order: There is no correct opening. Choose one that you like best, or that you think will work best against what you scout early game. 3 Stalker to Blink is what I've been doing every PvP for a while now, and I win most of them as of late. | ||
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Tigi
Germany472 Posts
On August 06 2011 00:53 Snaphoo wrote: When he says "a lot of colossus" he's talking 6+. When I face 6+ colossus, my Archon/Chargelot army melts; hence it's something to transition out of. The one exception is if you can get a flank on the Colossus player with a decent number of Chargelots and then sandwich from both sides; that can lead to amazingly lopsided, favorable results. But I would say in general that Chargelot/Archon is not a great lategame 200/200 army in PvP, and will get rolled by mass Colossus You clearly didn't get my point. I never said a 200/200 Chargelot/archon army would beat a 200/200 Coloss army with 6+ colossus (In his post he's actually talking about 3-4 colossus; actually it depens on the area which comp wins). But due to earlier expansions and more harass ways this fight shouldnt happen. You should have a larger army and actually thats a pretty bad spot for the colossus player as he can't engage wherever he wants to, but at the same time he should usually be the one who has to do sth. in order not to fall behind and he has to take the fight in a larger area more often than the chargelot/archon player has in small areas. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 06 2011 01:05 Squigly wrote: What issues have people run into when 3 gate proxy SG all inning? Mass base trade? Dunno what you mean.. Usually people just die to it. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
I was thinking going 1 gate + fe into twilight council -> and fast HT with storm and possibly chargelots. Is this viable thing or anyone that is experienced with this? I often end up in robotics due to needed observer for scouting him and then colossus. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 06 2011 01:07 eYeball wrote: I have a question regarding all these 1/1/1 builds that most terrans do on ladder TvP. Let us say that you know it's coming, before the game has even begun. How is the right way to prepare? Often times I face so many marines that they are usually left after I clean up banshees/ravens/tanks/scvs etc. I was thinking going 1 gate + fe into twilight council -> and fast HT with storm and possibly chargelots. Is this viable thing or anyone that is experienced with this? I often end up in robotics due to needed observer for scouting him and then colossus. Try the HuK 20 food expand. Then, get 4 gates + robo. Constantly chrono the gates, and cut probes very heavily (18 on main and like 8 on nat). Get a lot of Zealots, like 5 Sentry, As many Immortals as you can afford (if tank) and a couple Stalkers. If he has banshees still near the end of the battle just reinforce with Stalkers. This is how I've been surviving, and this is how I've seen professionals survive, with the only deviation being the opening. The number one cause of death to this opening is a failure to cut probes properly imo. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On August 06 2011 01:07 CecilSunkure wrote: Dunno what you mean.. Usually people just die to it. Ha true. There must be a weakness but i cant find it | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 06 2011 01:16 Squigly wrote: Ha true. There must be a weakness but i cant find it 1 Rax FE should beat it pretty convincingly. Lots of marines, and some Missile Turrets for icing on the cake  | ||
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