The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 281

On July 08 2012 13:18 KingLumps wrote:
What are your guys' thoughts on a colossus-less PvZ? I've been playing my PvZ without them lately and getting ht/storm instead. So my army is usually immortal/stalker/ht/archon mid to mid late game (the only thing you really have to get after is ms) before mass bls.

My thoughts are:
1) colossus aren't really good after Zerg starts getting a lot of bl, they help in the beginning but not much longer than that, while hts and archon are needed late game
2) colossus seem to be good for hitting a timing right before hive and/or greater spire are done. I feel this is a great time to do lots of damage but if you don't, or zerg can delay you until he has his tier 3, seems kinda scary
3) hts are needed against a muta transitions
4) storm plus immortals seem to handle any late heavy roach play just as well as colossus
5) colossus aren't good against any (rare) ultra bane style as archons and storm are better. Seriously Colossi arent good vs any tier 3 Zerg tech

The cons that I can think of:
1) colossus are better at countering the infestor tech that zergs have to get
2) lack of robo bay means no warp prism speed which is very helpful for harassment
3) colossus have an attack, hts don't so it's more micro intensive.

Just wondering what other fellow toss think

On June 26 2012 22:02 StaraCroft wrote:


There's a solid 1gate expand that I've seen quite a bit. it's 14 gate, 17 nexus, 2nd pylon on lowground for nexus wall. Zealot before core, chrono zealot, then core, forge etc. You can go into a very powerful 4gate +1 zealot push on their 3rd from there.
Axslav did that over and over again in his practice session with EGMachine yesterday: http://www.twitch.tv/axslav/b/322680853
Forge expand is still really solid. If you're below masters you should probably just pick one two base all-in after FFE and practice that. HUK 8 gate or Sentry/Immortal all-in.

What's almost too much fun to not be cheese is Puck's FFE/stalker rush, fast 3rd and then 12 gate push with Warp Prism.

On July 09 2012 05:26 Arctyrus wrote:
Hello beautiful community!

I love Starcraft 2, but unfortunately don't have enough time to learn more than one build for each match up. So the question is, which is the preferable 'standard' opening for the 3 match ups?

PvP - I'd like to work with Phoenix (personal bias, I think they're a really interesting unit.), and I'm basing my opening on this guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=350993

PvZ - I've never tried to learn any all in build, anyone who could direct me to a good, up-to-date all in?

PvT - No clue. What's a good standard build to know and play every time?

Thanks

On July 09 2012 06:22 Arctyrus wrote:
@ Abusion, it's a great thread indeed. And it does give me a few builds to choose from in PvT. It doesn't include an allin vs. Zerg though.

I know there's a lot of good allin guides out in the forum, and I've read a few, however instead of blindly choosing one, I'd like to hear which you guys think is the best.

(I know it's not the best way to learn, but since I play 1-2 games a day, I'll never reach the higher leagues anyway.)

On July 09 2012 10:38 Czarkasm wrote:
What is the "Standard" build vs. each race? I would like to know 1 to learn against each race for starting out

On July 09 2012 06:22 Arctyrus wrote:
@ Abusion, it's a great thread indeed. And it does give me a few builds to choose from in PvT. It doesn't include an allin vs. Zerg though.

I know there's a lot of good allin guides out in the forum, and I've read a few, however instead of blindly choosing one, I'd like to hear which you guys think is the best.

(I know it's not the best way to learn, but since I play 1-2 games a day, I'll never reach the higher leagues anyway.)

On July 03 2012 13:43 recklessfire wrote:


So, i watched all the games and im going to ignore the lategame on daybreak because all the games you tried to do the same thing basically, which was a 8 gate timing after getting a greedy 3rd. So biggest problem that I see is your investing too much time and resources into the actual attack. If you didnt significantly decrease his army size or bust down his wall with the first wave of the attack, your arent gona do good damage with the attack. If you really wanted to kill this guy, you would have just done an 8 gate off of two bases. After he deflects your first few waves, you keep warping in units and trying to bust him again, when you should realize you need to back off. You have an eco and army advantage in exchange for slowing down your tech/upgrades significantly. Yeah, we've all seen Parting use this build and just trash on terrans with this 8 gate, but his forcefields determine those fights and he will usually fight the army in parts rather than the whole thing. Its pretty difficult to seperate the armies when their defending the ramp in their natural.

You need to realize your fighting a terran who is starting to get his medivacs out, so like I said if you dont do significant damage with the initial attack, he will get more medivacs and more time for his units to heal. And because your tech is so behind, you cant just think you can attack anywhere on the map with your army. Unless you have a ton of forcefields on you, your army is at a disadvantage because your in the stage of the game where you need aoe.

There's nothing wrong with the actual attack, you just need to play more defensively when the attack isn't going to work, and catch back up in your tech.

edit: i want to add that your opening build needs to be more consistent and solid. I think a few games you just did a 1 gate and went straight for your third, which pretty much would be an auto win if the terran randomly attacked. So maybe go up to 3 gates then expand into your third? and you need to try to deny as much scouting around the map as you can, you definitely do not want to terran to scout the third until its at least its nearly complete and by then he really wont be able to react and do a powerful timing upon scouting it. Also, you need to take into consideration the possibility for a cloak banshee expand, so you need to be scouting his front and checking for marauders and if you dont see marauders by at least 8:00(assuming he gasless expanded), then there is something really wrong.

edit 2: You're probably aware, but be really careful in how many probes you build while getting that fast third up. If you build too many you can just outright die to one simple attack, so dont skip warp in rounds in favor of getting more probes if he hasnt gotten a quick third like yourself.
When your executing the actual 8 gate, you should probably build a tech building/forges while the attack is executed, you cant expect the attack to always work since its not an all in.