EPTMy second game zerg just rushed 2 base roaches with 2 queens (like wtf?) I guess he might of used overlords and had fast creep spread, and with those 2 queens and a couple of roaches he somehow beat my like 5 zealots 2 sentry 6-8 stalker and 2 immortal army. He had only like 12-16 roaches max i think, with 2 queens. I'm feeling scared, very scared about zerg builds nowadays. WHY CAN"T THEY JUST MASS ROACHES AND I JUST KILL THEM WITH COLLOSUS!?!?
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 279
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Igeneous
United States22 Posts
My second game zerg just rushed 2 base roaches with 2 queens (like wtf?) I guess he might of used overlords and had fast creep spread, and with those 2 queens and a couple of roaches he somehow beat my like 5 zealots 2 sentry 6-8 stalker and 2 immortal army. He had only like 12-16 roaches max i think, with 2 queens. I'm feeling scared, very scared about zerg builds nowadays. WHY CAN"T THEY JUST MASS ROACHES AND I JUST KILL THEM WITH COLLOSUS!?!? | ||
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Misuari
Singapore45 Posts
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
On July 04 2012 15:08 Misuari wrote: Hey guys. I really need help on my PvZ. How do you scout the zerg's base a second time after his pool is done and ur robo is not yet built. i played 2 games , i scouted a 14pool and 15hatch , so i thought it would be a macro game , but the zerg built a nydus network and mass lings and queens into my base . it really pisses me off and i dont know what to do. another game is about the Muta , Ling / Roach build. what to you do when a big battle accures and a bunch of muta is attacking ur base too . you go for it or you pull back to defend? simple scout his third. If he doesnt have a third building by 5 minutes you can be sure an all-in is coming. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13403 Posts
On July 04 2012 15:12 jcroisdale wrote: simple scout his third. If he doesnt have a third building by 5 minutes you can be sure an all-in is coming. No you cant. What you need is map presence. If you see many lings out you need to add a second cannon and try to scout the nat. Luckily if you see gas its probably tech. If you are lucky and you get a probe snuck into the main check his gas and if more than 100 has been taken prepare for an all in. If overlords are hanging out near the base it might be nydus. Unfortunately, to know if its nydus or banelings or roaches relies on timings to a certain extent that you learn as you go. Just be sure to try and shoo away any stray ovies whenever possible. And also try to put some zealots on the map for map control. If he is 2 base with no lings out on the map might be 2 base mutas or infestors which you can verify with an obs or pheonix if you open robo or star respectively. Would need replays to offer more direct help. | ||
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PeggyHill
1494 Posts
On July 04 2012 15:33 ZeromuS wrote: No you cant. What you need is map presence. If you see many lings out you need to add a second cannon and try to scout the nat. Luckily if you see gas its probably tech. If you are lucky and you get a probe snuck into the main check his gas and if more than 100 has been taken prepare for an all in. If overlords are hanging out near the base it might be nydus. Unfortunately, to know if its nydus or banelings or roaches relies on timings to a certain extent that you learn as you go. Just be sure to try and shoo away any stray ovies whenever possible. And also try to put some zealots on the map for map control. If he is 2 base with no lings out on the map might be 2 base mutas or infestors which you can verify with an obs or pheonix if you open robo or star respectively. Would need replays to offer more direct help. You can get map presence in PvZ through zealots and then through 3-4 gate pressure. 1 - if you see no third by 4.30 - 5.00 (and you can scout because probes can get there before ling speed is out) 2 - send 2 zealots out to take towers, you can push the lings all the way to the third to scout it again 3 - if you still see no third, extra cannon or two at the ramp, and make sure you have base vision | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
On July 03 2012 20:56 NVRLand wrote: I'm a rank 20~ platinum with PvP being my best mu (Currently at 60% win rate) so I hope you can find something useful in this post: 1) What I do in every PvP is being really defensive. I love macro games (Where I can really shine  ) so I tend to turtle hard to punish any aggressive builds. This mean that I go 3gate1robo with two immortals and then expand. This way you can hold 4gates and be ahead in tech.2) Sentries are the key to defending a 4gate. Those few times I lose when I 4gate (As I said, I do this very rarely, only when I think I can get a proxy pylon in his base) is when the guy has a lot of sentries to make a forcefield chain on the ramp (Last game, he took out my proxy pylon before I could warp in so I had to try break up the ramp) 3) Knowing what your opponent is doing is EVERYTHING! Since you have the exact same techs/possible units/etc you need to nkow exactly what he's doing. Take the Xel'Naga Watchtowers, look for his 1z1s1probe moving out to perform a 4gate and try to snipe the probe. 4) NEVER let a pylon finish so that he can warp in at your high ground 5) Up to like... high master, macro is way more important than your micro. You say that your stalker micro is really good, Only micro if you know that you can macro at the same time (Watch your replays, are you missing warp-ins due to that stalker micro?) _______________________________________________________ Hey guys, I played a PvT against a friend yesterday and lost. However I felt that I played at the top of my level. We are both platinum and when I watched the replay I kinda got the feeling that the only feeling it was close was his lacking macro (He was floating a lot more than me) so with better macro he would have CRUSHED me. I believe I responded fast to drops, macroed decent for my level and had quite good engagements. The only thing I noticed is when I a-moved on his middle base my army just ignored his army? Aren't the units supposed to attack everything in their way when you a-move? (This happens around 17 min) Replay: http://drop.sc/213869 Thank you! Started using some of this advice in my games today and it's helped a lot, thanks! | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On July 04 2012 09:06 TheDougler wrote: Yeah, San's been rocking it pretty hard lately (think it was him). Anyway I saw it in IPLTAC recently I believe (could've been GSTL, was a team league for sure). It's basically what the protoss are doing in this thread here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334504 So yeah, the emphasis is on the sentries and immortals, while the stalkers and zealots are just kinda filler (though when you reinforce you'll want stalkers usually). I've only lost one game against zerg (other then getting six pooled twice) in the around twelve times that I've done it. Control is pretty key... but generally it's a walk in the park. I especially reccomend it on Entombed Valley as it is almost impossible for the zerg to hold their third. They need to walk out an army into the middle of the map and somehow get a sick engagement on you really, because once you're at their third it is over. Usually only has +1 rather than +1/+1 though +1/+! is certainly possible and I do it sometimes. Seriously, try this build. Maybe it's only this effective at lower leagues... But I dunno, I've got a buddy in low masters and he still rocks people with this pretty hard. Ahem, anyway thanks for that thread! I'll give that a read right now. Edit: THAT THREAD IS FANTASTIC THANK YOU SO MUCH. Definitely gonna make 1 gate before robo my go-to build. I've been doing something similar with limited success due to an inefficient build order it looks like. Thanks, although I think the basics of the build are better explained in Remark's thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325014 I'm learning it as part of my foray into FFE builds (I've always gate-gas expanded and still do so on the smaller maps; it's not as optimal as FFE but I sort of like the knife-edge quality of gate/gas expands especially against Z who know how to counter it) and have had good succes with it. The times I have not have been when I hit too late, or screwed up with my positioning and control. I'll work on getting a 3rd Immortal out before pushing - although at the moment I am still working on cutting my probes at 44 (I usually wind up making 50 or so before cutting) and hitting on time before ~11.00. Glad you liked the thread I linked. Alej was on the ball with that one. I 1 Gate Robo myself, usually, and am working on hitting with 2 Colossus with +1. I've tried a couple of War of the Worlds style long PvP games and they bore me to tears. So, these days, I try to avoid these types of games if I can and end it before it becomes a lazer fest. | ||
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iremnant3847
Taiwan269 Posts
While playing a PvP, I see my opponent fast expanding with Photon Cannon defense. How should I properly respond? How many sentries are optimal in early game PvT to fend off any pure marine pushes? These pushes are usually made to punish my 1-Gate F.E. Thanks. | ||
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Papa Smurf 84
United States3 Posts
http://drop.sc/214900 Can somebody please give me a few tips? If you want, you can just fast forward to the 20 minute mark and see the push | ||
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
On July 05 2012 14:48 vizi wrote: If I am going 4-Gate Zealot harass into 7-Gate Immo. all-in (against Zerg), when should my first attack (zealots) strike and when should my all-in start moving out? I can execute the build fairly well but it seems like I'm always pushing out a bit late. While playing a PvP, I see my opponent fast expanding with Photon Cannon defense. How should I properly respond? How many sentries are optimal in early game PvT to fend off any pure marine pushes? These pushes are usually made to punish my 1-Gate F.E. Thanks. for the PvP it's pretty easy just expand and go colossus tech and roll him on 2 bases, If you went for a 4 gate just don't warp in any units and drop a Nexus at your natural. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On July 05 2012 14:48 vizi wrote: If I am going 4-Gate Zealot harass into 7-Gate Immo. all-in (against Zerg), when should my first attack (zealots) strike and when should my all-in start moving out? I can execute the build fairly well but it seems like I'm always pushing out a bit late. While playing a PvP, I see my opponent fast expanding with Photon Cannon defense. How should I properly respond? How many sentries are optimal in early game PvT to fend off any pure marine pushes? These pushes are usually made to punish my 1-Gate F.E. Thanks. PvZ: zealots should be warped in at around 7.50 ish. An immortal timing off a 4gate zealot can be a bit slow, you should move out at around 10 ish with your first two immortals, so about one minute later than with a straight up immortal build. PvT: sentry count depends on your build and followup, but generally 4 is pretty standard. For example, Creator's double forge build always gets 4 sentries, while kcdc's fast templar build gets 3. | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On July 05 2012 14:48 vizi wrote: If I am going 4-Gate Zealot harass into 7-Gate Immo. all-in (against Zerg), when should my first attack (zealots) strike and when should my all-in start moving out? I can execute the build fairly well but it seems like I'm always pushing out a bit late. While playing a PvP, I see my opponent fast expanding with Photon Cannon defense. How should I properly respond? How many sentries are optimal in early game PvT to fend off any pure marine pushes? These pushes are usually made to punish my 1-Gate F.E. Thanks. PvP: I wouldn't even bother expanding against a Cannon expand; I would tech to something that beats cannons. Think Blink, Immortals, Ranged Colossi, or Warp Prism. You can build a nexus as you're pressuring your opponent, but I think it's best to go over there and apply the pressure first before expanding behind it. Better to take your tech advantage and beat your opponent down with it; usually it will end the game or just downright cripple them. PvT: The earlier you build sentries, the more energy they bank. If you get 3 sentries very quickly, you probably don't need a 4th. If you get them later, you might want 5. And if you are moving out on the map to shark around or pressure the Terran, you might want more Sentries because you're trying to trade energy for units by creating favorable engagements, so having more Sentries is going to work in the manner that it's a resource which replenishes over time. | ||
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iremnant3847
Taiwan269 Posts
Edit: Thanks for replying, SigmaoctanusIV, Teoita & ineversmile! | ||
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stilee
25 Posts
On July 05 2012 14:48 vizi wrote: If I am going 4-Gate Zealot harass into 7-Gate Immo. all-in (against Zerg), when should my first attack (zealots) strike and when should my all-in start moving out? I can execute the build fairly well but it seems like I'm always pushing out a bit late. While playing a PvP, I see my opponent fast expanding with Photon Cannon defense. How should I properly respond? How many sentries are optimal in early game PvT to fend off any pure marine pushes? These pushes are usually made to punish my 1-Gate F.E. Thanks. The 4-gate pressure hits at around 7:30 i think. Basically just chrono wg from start to finish and attack with your initial 2 zealots and the four that you warp-in. In PvP if your opponents forge expands, fake pressure to force more cannons and just get a nexus up yourself. 4 sentries is a good amount for PvT imo. | ||
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stilee
25 Posts
On July 04 2012 15:08 Misuari wrote: Hey guys. I really need help on my PvZ. How do you scout the zerg's base a second time after his pool is done and ur robo is not yet built. i played 2 games , i scouted a 14pool and 15hatch , so i thought it would be a macro game , but the zerg built a nydus network and mass lings and queens into my base . it really pisses me off and i dont know what to do. another game is about the Muta , Ling / Roach build. what to you do when a big battle accures and a bunch of muta is attacking ur base too . you go for it or you pull back to defend? I'd suggest chronoing 2 zealots out and taking the watchtowers to see if zerg is moving out. You can also try to poke at his third/nat with the zealots. If you lost to an inbase nydus, it's only your own fault. You should spread your pylons in a way so that you have complete vision of your own base. | ||
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-Kira
352 Posts
On July 05 2012 17:36 vizi wrote: What is the proper response to a 6-pool (enter base and see a nearly complete Spawning Pool) if you are midway through a 17 Nexus Forge F.E? Edit: Thanks for replying, SigmaoctanusIV, Teoita & ineversmile! Put down a forge and cannon your main. You should be able to nexus first on every 2 player map, hotkey a probe that is mining the closest pylon at natural and when you see six pool with your scouting probe send the hotkeyed one to make a forge right away and put a pylon near your mineral line. Zerglings should arrive at your nat around 3:03 you should have 1-2 cannons going up in your main and shitload of probes, just run them around and dont fight zerglings unless they attack your cannons/pylon in main then just poke them and keep running away untill cannon is up. | ||
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KingLumps
74 Posts
On July 05 2012 18:28 stilee wrote: The 4-gate pressure hits at around 7:30 i think. Basically just chrono wg from start to finish and attack with your initial 2 zealots and the four that you warp-in. In PvP if your opponents forge expands, fake pressure to force more cannons and just get a nexus up yourself. 4 sentries is a good amount for PvT imo. Earliest I've ever managed to pull off was 7:46, and that was the warpin. You usually put down your 3 gates down at 40 supply which is ~6:30. As long as you start your attack <8:00 your fine. I suppose you could attack earlier if you cut probes or went nexus first. I always found going for fast blink obs play effective, you can even substitute a warp prism as your high ground vision and warp in zealots or more stalkers. Some maps work better though and I think daybreak you can't blink up to the main at all. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
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Misuari
Singapore45 Posts
On July 04 2012 17:36 PeggyHill wrote: You can get map presence in PvZ through zealots and then through 3-4 gate pressure. 1 - if you see no third by 4.30 - 5.00 (and you can scout because probes can get there before ling speed is out) 2 - send 2 zealots out to take towers, you can push the lings all the way to the third to scout it again 3 - if you still see no third, extra cannon or two at the ramp, and make sure you have base vision Sorry for the late reply , was busy with some school stuffs . Anyway , thanks for the help! Manage to counter this "all-in" just before i post this. Really helpful. thanks alot ^^ | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13403 Posts
On maps like Ohana and Cloud Kingdom I can avoid losing my nat to a 6 pool. I know this, but in either case what do I do? Should I go for a FE on maps like Ohana and get stargate tech quickly? What about maps where I need to hold the 6 pool by giving up my nat? I seriously have no clue what to do, wing it and often lose. | ||
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