EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 191
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Gugg
Norway32 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
On February 23 2012 00:26 Gugg wrote: If I get 6,7 or 8-pooled, would it be more efficent to forget the wall off create a forge and cannon up your mineral line, or would it be better to create 2 gateways and hope that your Zealots gets out in time? If you were going to ffe, drop a pylon and cannon in your mineral line, the low ground pylon/forge are basically lost on basically every map (correct me if im wrong, i dont really ffe) If you were going for a gate-cyber opening, you can either drop a forge and cannon at the wall, or a second gateway to chrono out zealots (pull probes until you get like 4 zealots out, and make sure your gates remain powered ofc); either way you need to complete the wall with a pylon. Both ways work; it's mostly personal preference. If you get lucky and you scout him first (say it's close air), if you were going to do a gate/cyber opening you can even go forge first-gateway-pylon-cannon at the top of your ramp, get a cannon and proceed to lol at his lings. | ||
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Geiko
France2053 Posts
On February 23 2012 00:26 Gugg wrote: If I get 6,7 or 8-pooled, would it be more efficent to forget the wall off create a forge and cannon up your mineral line, or would it be better to create 2 gateways and hope that your Zealots gets out in time? I'm assuming you mean if you open gateway expand and not FFE. If you scout early enough (first position, or even second position on small maps), forge + gateway + cannon wall is easy way to deal with early pools but doesn't work if you scout late. Going double gateway and chronoing zealots can be a bit tricky but is the best way to come out ahead. Basically zerglings will be at your ramp before the first zealot is out, so get a pylon to finish the wall off, make your zealot pop inside your base, then cancel the pylon and attack move with your zealot plus a couple of probes. smart zergs will break your gateways at the same time so be sure to pull enough probes to deal with all the zerglings at your ramp until at least your second and third zealots are out. Then pressure with chronoboosted zealots while probing, expanding teching etc... edit: mmm, well now you have three answers for the price of one ^^ | ||
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Gugg
Norway32 Posts
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eugalp
United States203 Posts
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AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
On February 23 2012 02:51 eugalp wrote: Speaking of 6 pool, how viable is getting pylon and gate right next to your nexus (as you would in PvP)? I know whitera does this on occasion and combatex recommended it in one of his vods (wow I can't believe I just mentioned whitera and combat in the same sentence). I suppose it should be viable since your zealots pop right in your mineral line - but it's probably a headache to micro. Would a second gate before cyber be a must in this scenario? Yea, its alot more micro intensive, personally i think just completing a wall at your ramp and chrono boosting zealots is the best option (a-la MC Vs. Idra from Dreamhack on Xel naga caverns) | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
On February 23 2012 03:23 AGIANTSMURF wrote: Yea, its alot more micro intensive, personally i think just completing a wall at your ramp and chrono boosting zealots is the best option (a-la MC Vs. Idra from Dreamhack on Xel naga caverns) Everytime I try that I lose I think I mess up the timings :/ I find if they just keep making more and more lings I lose one of the two gateways and lose in the long run  | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On February 23 2012 05:04 ZeromuS wrote: Everytime I try that I lose I think I mess up the timings :/ I find if they just keep making more and more lings I lose one of the two gateways and lose in the long run You shouldn't really lose an entire gateway, but just make another one if that's the case? | ||
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Chasian18
United States38 Posts
I'm in silver league aspiring to be gold, plat, diamond, master :D but please criticize everything if you have the time, but for sure tell me how i lost that last battle. Thanks guys, Brotoss love <3 | ||
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To3-Knee
Canada100 Posts
This is when I ffe on most maps. I feel once those 6 lings are out, I can't effectively scout to see if he got his expo or if he's rushing roaches. There have been times when I get hit by mutas and didn't scout it either. What is a good response to 10 pools? Is my scouting just bad or is it really that difficult to scout the expo and tech path before I can push out comfortably? | ||
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xlava
United States676 Posts
On February 23 2012 11:41 To3-Knee wrote: I've been running up against a 10pooling zerg a lot these days. I'm not quite sure what is the best way to handle the situation. What often happens is a fast 6 lings to take map control followed by a hatch around 18 and pretty fast third as well. This is when I ffe on most maps. I feel once those 6 lings are out, I can't effectively scout to see if he got his expo or if he's rushing roaches. There have been times when I get hit by mutas and didn't scout it either. What is a good response to 10 pools? Is my scouting just bad or is it really that difficult to scout the expo and tech path before I can push out comfortably? Well putting it bluntly, yes your scouting is bad. Mutas are very easy to scout, because you don't actually need to scout a spire. Often times, mass spines in front of the Zerg base are indicative of mutas, or at least some gas heavy tech (infestors are a possibility, but much less common). I would chrono out 2 zealots asap (if FFE) in order to scout for an all in. If you're gateway expanding it should be much easier to hold with good forcefields to delay the attack until you get cannons up. | ||
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To3-Knee
Canada100 Posts
On February 23 2012 11:52 xlava wrote: Well putting it bluntly, yes your scouting is bad. Mutas are very easy to scout, because you don't actually need to scout a spire. Often times, mass spines in front of the Zerg base are indicative of mutas, or at least some gas heavy tech (infestors are a possibility, but much less common). I would chrono out 2 zealots asap (if FFE) in order to scout for an all in. If you're gateway expanding it should be much easier to hold with good forcefields to delay the attack until you get cannons up. Do you sac these 2 zealots then? Seems likely that I cant bring them home if there are more than the initial 6 lings. Further, what is best to deal with against a ling runby this early? should I be pulling a probe to block the ramp? I've gone for the early zealot push, but the ling camped outside of my base sees me move out and I often get swarmed by zerglings where 2 zealots won't be enough to get to their base. I've only been consistently successful at scouting their base by sending 4+ zealots or a stalker. I do also fear speedling timing to lose my stalker since I'm not quite sure where his gas is going. | ||
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UnoS
Sweden9 Posts
Thanks. // UnoS | ||
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SkyBlaze
Canada191 Posts
On February 23 2012 16:17 UnoS wrote: Hey guys, I've been playing both terran and zerg in the leagues lately but I've gotten an interest of trying out the infamous protoss race. But after playing an custom game against the A.I I got really scared haha. I roflstomp A.I with my main race but with toss it doesnt seem like I can manage to produce enough units to protect any early pressure! Do you guys got anything I could do to prevent falling to early pressure? For the information my main race is Terran. Maybe I should have made more gateways etc. I don't have any replays since I'm off working. But if you guys just have any general tips on how many gateways I should have at 7 min for an example. Thanks. // UnoS I would like to say 2 things b4 I say the builds that most high level protosses use. First are you good with micro? 2nd can you hit all of your timing ? If not that's not a problem. If you just repeat these builds and know how to scout. These builds can be used all the way into the pro level in PvT and PvZ. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294136 Then move to this one after the early stages http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292549 For PvZ i would recommend 3gate 2gas expand for new players but if you feel confident FFE is good on most maps http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3-Gate_Sentry_Expand FFE http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287970 most of the build i chosen for you have 2 major things you need to focus on 1. Scouting information (seeing nothing is also knowing what's happening) 2. Hitting timings (got to get all them nice and crisp) | ||
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UnoS
Sweden9 Posts
Wich is a good way to scout mid game before I get an observer? I will check into those builds to get an idea of how I should perform an good BO's maybe I've been too lazy to actually search for one. But I'll thank you a lot for the information and I will try them out! I know that if I got a mindset into the BO's I will perform well at the macro part anyway. // UnoS | ||
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SkyBlaze
Canada191 Posts
On February 23 2012 16:40 UnoS wrote: Oh thank your SkyBlaze! Sure I just started playing SC2 in the last weeks of season 5 but I have improved pretty well. I would say that I manage micro since I as terran can do atleast a 2 pronged drop and still have control over both of them. Splitting troops etc isn't a problem either. My timings may not be the perfect one with terrans yet. But I do still manage to keep them somewhat good. But all comes with practice right? Since I play terran I do rely a lot on scan scouting. May be a bad decision since it made me bad at scouting otherwise. Wich is a good way to scout mid game before I get an observer? I will check into those builds to get an idea of how I should perform an good BO's maybe I've been too lazy to actually search for one. But I'll thank you a lot for the information and I will try them out! I know that if I got a mindset into the BO's I will perform well at the macro part anyway. // UnoS You mostly scout by using probes and laying around pylons EVERYWHERE you think your opponent would want to go or place a base or even fly a unit over. OR if your build allows you take the attacking position you can use your army to poke and prod for information. | ||
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UnoS
Sweden9 Posts
// UnoS | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On February 23 2012 16:40 UnoS wrote: Oh thank your SkyBlaze! Sure I just started playing SC2 in the last weeks of season 5 but I have improved pretty well. I would say that I manage micro since I as terran can do atleast a 2 pronged drop and still have control over both of them. Splitting troops etc isn't a problem either. My timings may not be the perfect one with terrans yet. But I do still manage to keep them somewhat good. But all comes with practice right? Since I play terran I do rely a lot on scan scouting. May be a bad decision since it made me bad at scouting otherwise. Wich is a good way to scout mid game before I get an observer? I will check into those builds to get an idea of how I should perform an good BO's maybe I've been too lazy to actually search for one. But I'll thank you a lot for the information and I will try them out! I know that if I got a mindset into the BO's I will perform well at the macro part anyway. // UnoS How long are you taking exactly to get an observer? And what build are you using? You should have something you can use soon after your second base, which isn't really mid-game in my opinion. It shouldn't really take that long to get airborne scouts (observers or phoenixes) unless you're going templar tech. In which case hallucinated phoenixes are excellent scouts. I've taken to following up warp gate tech with hallucination immediately if I'm going for a Twilight Council. Its energy expensive for your sentries but the scouting is invaluable and you always have the option to fool your opponent with your tech (see Huk's hallucinated Void Rays vs Idra for the quintessential example). Of course this rarely works when you actually engage and they notice they're not taking damage. But theres plenty of uses for hallucinations. And for early game scouting on templar tech its just incredibly helpful. | ||
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UnoS
Sweden9 Posts
// UnoS | ||
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