EPT
I tried a fast game and I was able to have drop, some bane and some infestor and mass gling (with +1) about 11-12 min.
I'll try this on ladder tomorrow ! Big thanks for this build, it is exactly what I want to do in ZvP.
[G] Spanishiwa's No Gas FE ZvX - Page 4
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BaNaNaSpliT
France6 Posts
I tried a fast game and I was able to have drop, some bane and some infestor and mass gling (with +1) about 11-12 min. I'll try this on ladder tomorrow ! Big thanks for this build, it is exactly what I want to do in ZvP. | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
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Konsume
Canada466 Posts
On April 01 2011 03:01 Dragar wrote: How do you handle a one base hellion-maurauder push without fast lings or roaches? Queens and spines | ||
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Spanishiwa
United States91 Posts
Conc shell push.. Against what? If you're talking marauder hellion then queen spine works fine. I addressed dts in the OP, they are easily held and it's super all in. | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
I'd love to see this working. Maurauders melt spines, and queens have such low dps against maurauders with their armour I just don't see it holding. Maybe Spanishiwa has a replay of this. | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
On April 01 2011 03:29 Spanishiwa wrote: If you're talking marauder hellion then queen spine works fine. Well...I'll give it a go I guess. It looks very stable, surprisingly so. | ||
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Spanishiwa
United States91 Posts
Blink stalker is countered by the early upgrade lings + infester tech. But that's later game and it's really up to you to react. Marauder hellion into medivac... Really eccentric opening, might not have one. I will find some blue flame drop replays I guess is that the same? I'll double check though. | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On April 01 2011 01:40 Spanishiwa wrote: Chaos: my zvp style is ling bling, hence the double evos :p. I do just fine with the gas. Obviously you react differently to stargate play than robo, but yeah. Oh I do know that ^^. I was merely argueing that you cant support infestor AND baneling drop tech on 2base without cutting into your army, which hurts in ZvP. Personally I do a +1 melee ling opening too, occasionally with banelings if I sense a korean 4 gate incomming. I'm not argueing against that, it simply works ^^. Its just that if you go gas pool , you will have your zergling speed up sooner, and also your +1 melee up sooner, which helps in 1base pushes a lot. The +1 won't be up before a K4gate though, so you gotta have banes then. I'm just weary of hatch first in ZvP. Horrors of cannon rushing and dying to them is engraved too hard into my being  . | ||
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Spanishiwa
United States91 Posts
Also I have the gas for it on 2 base, because you don't need that many banelings, they're really only to counter the zealot sentry force he has in his army. Also this isn't some 2 base all in build. You take your third about when lair pops usually. Definitely 3 base infester baneling. To the guy talking about my delayed third: yeah like all of the games i'm defending early pressure so it's ok to delay the third then. | ||
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ChiknAdobo
United States208 Posts
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On April 01 2011 03:52 Spanishiwa wrote: There is a hard mc style 4 gate replay, and a 5 gate with a probe blocked expansion. They show that the build holds vs early gate pressure. The early +1 wouldn't be up in time anyway to hold most early pressure so it's better to delay upgrades for econ and then use that econ to go double evo. Also I have the gas for it on 2 base, because you don't need that many banelings, they're really only to counter the zealot sentry force he has in his army. To the guy talking about my delayed third: yeah like all of the games i'm defending early pressure so it's ok to delay the third then. Oh I do see that it is very capable of stopping pushes, I watched all three replays. The thing I'm most worried about is a cannon rush, and the cannon rush you stopped isn't really a prime example of a well executed cannon rush. If you snipe the probe with drones before he even gets a pylon finishing ( or has a probe near your base instead of walking it all the way from his base when his forge finishes ), then he pretty much lost. For the jmag game, if you went gas pool into expo you wouldn't have your natural blocked because you have lings out at the same time you expand. You could have speed up by the time he went in for the attack, but you could obviously hold it with your queens too. Very handily I must say. For the MC4gate , first of all, kudos for stopping that. Its hard to scout and to react propperly, but you reacted pretty much spot on ( spinecrawlers ect ). However, the build I use gets +1 melee out around the 8 minute mark. Here's a link to my build/guide about it : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196518 This would mean that +1 is out by the time his push hits, which obviously helps in the cost effectiveness apartment. And a faster speed upgrade helps with scouting and taking out probes who attempt to build pylons. | ||
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Spanishiwa
United States91 Posts
Personally I don't think lings even with +1 would fare all that well against his sentry zealot count. So queen spine was more appropriate IMO. | ||
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Gotmog
Serbia899 Posts
This is a good build, and everyone should at least have it up their sleeve Standard zerg is way to predictable | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On April 01 2011 04:35 Spanishiwa wrote: Yeah, he blocked the expo in the game but I took my third so its pretty moot. Unless he blocks both expos. Gas pool would be less econ which isn't what I like to go for. Cannon rush is all control. If you can't hold it then it doesn't matter which hatch first build you use. Personally I don't think lings even with +1 would fare all that well against his sentry zealot count. So queen spine was more appropriate IMO. Very well, I see where you are coming from . I can definitely see this working versus macro oriented protosses better than gas pool openings. But I don't think you need a huge drone lead in the early game vs toss if he is onebasing.And on that last point. It depends totally on your flanking. But yes I do think that more spines rather than more +1 lings is the answer to that sentry filled push. Good discussion ^^. | ||
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opm1s6
United States42 Posts
It's interesting how there aren't many smooth transitions with this build, but rather phases. You get to 40 supply and you're shifting into a new phase, where you just focus on utilizing the gas to fit whatever strategy you're looking to execute. Because of this it comes down to scouting, and I have a feeling that once I start working on this, my scouting will become much, much better. Thanks again | ||
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CoMMoDuS
Germany507 Posts
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Advocado
Denmark994 Posts
Edit: I'm sure it works, just that I haven't found out how to respond properly to zealot early attacks by P. Haven't played it much in zvt or zvz. | ||
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caracarn
Sweden141 Posts
And i have to say that it works beutiful, the idea of getting lots of drones and a good eco is just excellent. And the defence will be quite solid as well. Vs toss i have never had this easy to hold a 4 gate. And vs terran so many goes hellions and with mass queens and spines that is so easy to hold without any losses. And yes you cant just sit in a bubble and dont react to what the enemy is doing... We all know the timings for everything, if i suspect something fishy i will put down spores at all my bases it is not hard to do... Somehow it feels like this is the way zerg was meant to be played... | ||
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Spanishiwa
United States91 Posts
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