[G] Spanishiwa's No Gas FE ZvX - Page 58

On April 20 2012 17:40 Belial88 wrote:


They are completely different... going 3 base as a response to FFE is totally different than ice fisher. People didn't ffe back then. Ice fisher is basically hard countered by FFE, and even against gateway expand it isn't good if player plays it right.

They aren't stepping stones at all... gasless 2 base mass queen was to defend popular all-ins of the time. Gasless 3 base is to maximize econ against FFE. Totally not similar, at all.



No they haven't. I don't think any zerg makes 4 queens consecutively. It's economic suicide. You just lose the game, you made too much. It's like making 4 spines against reactor hellion. You jsut give up so much map control and not gain enough econ that you end up so far behind.

People making a 3rd queen for creep (and some defense) rather than only for defense, and a 4th queen wayyyyy later or because of what is scouted, is a lot different than just making 4 queens right away.

There's also no way in hell you are going to get a third base against reactor hellion. They will fry the drone. They have map control. Unless they are dumb and run in and lose the hellions for not enough drones. That's the whole point of reactor hellion. Only way to get third, is with roaches, which hurts mutas, tech, drone count, and you can't get 4 queens exactly with it either.

Ice fisher build was just to show off the utility of queens for defense, a sort of proof of concept.

On April 22 2011 01:13 Netto. wrote:



But what do you want to do with those speedlings? For example to see a blue flame drop you don't need to have a xel'naga tower. Well placed overlord is enough. To see if someone doesn't make a fake push you have creep close to half of map, as well as there isn't speedling needed to stand near ramp - normal ling can do that also. I can't see any good use of those early speedlings.

People badly want to get something expensive and not needed at all. I am not sure why. You forget about such a great things like spreading overlords all over the map. But it is easier to point all ovies over hatch and waste 156 minerals per minute for speed.

On April 22 2012 00:21 mapleleafs791 wrote:


check out most of DRG's zvt's from the last 2 gsl season and winter arenas/championchip. He opens with 2 queens straight into another 2 queens in a large majority of their games. He uses it to link into a fast roach 3rd, a roch bane all in, or a dedicated 2 base till lair.

I completley agree with your zvp point but your pretty far off base with the zvt point.

I was like "wtf?" the first time i saw him do it but he does it pretty standard and its a pretty sick build. it is not the exact ice fisher build but i does a fast 4 queen with a 6:00 triple gas if roaches are being produced or a 6:30 quad gas if you are not making roaches. 100% safe to everything i have seen him encounter or i have encountered. Even nestea and symbol have used variations of this in games.

It has advantages and disadvantages obviously but it is completely legit

Edit: And with the right build you can get roaches, 4 queens and have a ridiculous economy + creep spread with a resonable lair timing. Also you can still swap the expand into a roach bane all in on a whim. Check out his replays its pretty eye opening how flexible it is

On June 16 2012 02:47 IronManSC wrote:
So I'm curious... I know for a while people figured out how to counter Spanishiwa's ZvX builds, but ever since the queens received a range buff, I have to ask, does the ZvX strategy become viable again?

On June 16 2012 02:47 IronManSC wrote:
So I'm curious... I know for a while people figured out how to counter Spanishiwa's ZvX builds, but ever since the queens received a range buff, I have to ask, does the ZvX strategy become viable again?

On April 22 2012 01:40 NOOBALOPSE wrote:


It is not 156 minerals per minute. Rather it is 156 minerals period because it takes ~50-60 seconds to get the gas for speed. You only get speed once. Then you pull guys off gas.

just wanted to point this out... I honestly think it's worth it since you don't need as many spines because of speed and can rely more on an "emergency" defence.