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TibblesEvilCat
United Kingdom766 Posts
i can either go infestors OR go muta's, both have a weakness and a streangth mutas cant't deal with a direct attack, infestors can, mutas can deal with seig tanks, infestors can't, mutas grant a small ammount of map controle time, infestors don't. yes i can get both but as zerg you need numbers for things to be effective. i find its really up to you terrans what you do now, mid game now isn't so much of a zerg much react to ### of the terran. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
You must have siege tanks or a Zerg will just roll you with ling/bling. Besides siege tanks, there is no ground problem that a large enough number of banelings won't handle. I have experienced it often enough, that 40+ baneling rolled into my PF blowing it up, taking all the SCVs with them and then just continuing to the next expand rolling through the mineral line and possibly the next. Marauders take way too long to put a dent into the bling train if you have just splashed them in to soak banelings and marauders constitute the majority of your forces, you just get overrun by regular splings that deal with marauders with ease. Hellions just stand by and watch the bling train run you over and thors again are just horrible vs splings. So any composition must either put constant pressure on the Zerg, trading each time efficiently to avoid a baneling buildup, or must contain tanks to defend key points sacrificing mobility. Tanks must be protected against air and the only thing that can do this properly is marines with - when the muta numbers grow larger - thor support. Which led me back to the standard composition. I also observed, that you can challenge the air superiority with vikings, but you sacrifice so much ground control in the process, that zerg just stops making mutas, masses ground and runs you over with the banelings as you will lack tanks. Yes, you can have banshees killing off the ground forces, but they won't be fast enough to clean up the ground forces. I think I will try heavy mech next with minerals going into hellions and turrets to support the thors against magic box mutas. Edit: I think the biggest problem with mech is that it is extremely gas heavy but lacks the mobility to defend multiple bases in order to gain the needed gas income. Zerg compositions are equally gas heavy, but their compositions are mobile enough to defend as many expansions as needed. | ||
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Cyrusis
Canada2 Posts
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Griffith`
714 Posts
On March 25 2011 03:04 Cyrusis wrote: Um guys, I completely agree that Zerg has slight advantage but I red through most of this thread and nobody said anything about cloak. Using cloak and sniping overseers then you'd have a nice window to go to town on the Infestors. And what about Ravens, does the PDD shoot down fungals? I'd imagine it's not as feasible because you'd have to protect the unit so much but just wondering. FG reveals cloaked units. When they do get overseers, by the time you use cloak and get off 5 snipes +25 cloak energy (150 energy gone already) to kill an overseer you'll have no energy left anyways. | ||
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REM.ca
Canada354 Posts
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abominable
101 Posts
turret spam and legobase are very effective against muta harrass. 6-7 turret in close proximity can reduce a ball of 20 mutas down to 4-5 - and 4-5 mutas cant do anything. | ||
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osten
Sweden316 Posts
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Tracedragon
United States948 Posts
Terran still has many options that kill Infestors. Tanks, Ghosts with Snipe, and even cloaked Banshees can ruin an Infestor's day. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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HowSoOnIsNow
Canada480 Posts
I'm starting to think that some builds are going to start to look quite Fantasy-esque now that Bio play isn't as potent as it once was. | ||
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strength
United States493 Posts
1. Last patch it was 8 seconds.. 4 seconds would be better to pull away. 2. Zergs are starting to learn how to not rely on muta for drop play. Game is evolving. 3. What? Muta mid game then into muta+infestor+bane/ling? Nothing has changed in zvt in this part. 4. Terran will learn how to adapt. Every race has adapted to somewhat of an alternative. 5. Nothing has changed here. Last patch was the same thing. Like i said before, zergs are evolving and using infester play. Over all, coming from a zerg player, I think terran will be fine. Infester play allows zerg not to only rely on muta, but we can also tech to ulta and not worry about drops because we have infesters in our bases. Good luck~ | ||
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gREIFOCs
Argentina208 Posts
One infestor could be replaced by 6 banelings. So cost-wise, just a well spread army of marines really makes fg not really cost effective. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:20 canikizu wrote: Has anyone got into this situation before? The infestor fungaled my marines, and then threw an inrfested terran into them. The tank blasted all the marines at once. I loled so hard. Clever I want to try that | ||
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gREIFOCs
Argentina208 Posts
On March 25 2011 02:20 canikizu wrote: Has anyone got into this situation before? The infestor fungaled my marines, and then threw an inrfested terran into them. The tank blasted all the marines at once. I loled so hard. Yes. That's elementary even before the 1.3. Infestors can very easily force an unsiege. All the zerg need to do is invest another 100 in burrow, and throw a infested terran once in a while to punish the leapfroggin' But still, even more gas requirement of 2 bases is hard for z. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On March 24 2011 21:30 REM.ca wrote: Clearly I think the solution remains in doing more of what we were already doing: lots and lots of constant early game drone killing to delay the infestors just like we would delay the mutas pre 1.3. Macro mechanics give terran the opportunity to take a lead early game. Let's make sure we do that and keep it. I think I'll be more than happy if zerg are rushing to infestor if that means skimping out on some mutas. If my 2-3 turrets per base can *gasp!* ACTUALLY hold off mutas now because they'll be in reasonable numbers, I'll be a happy Terran. Wow, imagine a meta-game where it is reasonable for Terran to move out of his base now. Might not have to go all-in now if backstabs aren't a problem anymore. I don't know. There is probably something us terrans can be doing better against infestor and we need to wait to see how that goes. What I wanted to say though is, I'd rather want those annoying mutas back rather than the infestor. I atleast know how to counter mutas, get a few turrets up, get thors if the flock becomes to big and keep tabs on them to prevent to much harassment. Infestors... I felt they were pretty strong before patch, now I just don't know what to do. My experience: I try do some early dmg via rines, get maybe slightly ahead, force a few units. Zerg goes roaches to hold while teching. I can do very little direct dmg until stim is done. By this time, zerg is close to having(or has) infestors with 75 energy and all my engagements need to be done behind 2+ tanks. Then lategame... Blord+infestor+corruptor = I have no idea how to engage, just that I don't want to face that again. Before sure the zerg could immobilize your vikings, preventing kiting, but now it's just brutal :/ Ghosts: I suppose it will be worth it having 1 ghost in your army, just to hope you can get EMP off on a few infestors, but I've done a lot of testing and trying with it in TvZ and well 150 gas is just to expensive for a unit that does mediocre dps vs light and crap dmg else. Sure snipe is good.. in theory, but it both requires a lot of APM(ontop of the very high battle APM terran requires already) and you basically need each ghost to kill 4-6blings, 3-5 roaches, 1 infestor, 1.5 mutas or ton of zlings. That's a lot of kills(and energy), but not only are those the reason why ghosts are... hard to use, but the snipe ability is so stupidly gimped with shift that when your army gets big enough it's pretty much impossible to unload the energy in a timely fashion(if ghosts begins auto attacking, shift+snipe goes off after he's done attacking). TL:DR It'll obviously take longer to let all the dust settle, but right now I think it will be the rise of the zerg. (again we'll see how this all develops, but I personally think the "FG only effects ground" would be a good nerf. I was against it in december but with the brutal dps of FG now and more importantly it's synergy with corruptor/muta+blords I think it might be in order. This all from TvZ perspective). | ||
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emidanRKO
United States137 Posts
The best thing to do vs infestors now is have all your siege tanks at the front (spread out) with around 5-10 marines spread out completely, with a missile turret or some scans ready to take out any burrowed infestors looking to throw fungals or infested terran infestors. The rest of the marines should be behind the tanks or just spread around them. You basically DO NOT want marines are the front or all over your tanks like you would vs mutas. It's not like he'll have mutas and infestors at the same time until maybe like 4-5 bases mining for him. So, you need to abuse the fact that he has lost map control and the ability to easily pick off siege tanks by picking infestors and simply be much more careful and pick a good spot to control (usually somewhere near his third so you can stop him from taking it). Basically, the best solution to the change is not a new composition...its just a different way of controlling your armies. The infestor pretty much makes the army of the zerg almost as strong as the terran army food-wise because of fungal growth. However, he gives up the superior map control and harassment he had with mutas. Sure, you can fungal scvs, but usually that will only come into play once you're on 3-4 bases, because before that you're obviously much less spread out, but in that case you need to be sending a unit or two around the bases on patrol or something the same way he made a decision to send a unit to your base. | ||
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jyLee
United States350 Posts
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j3i
United States357 Posts
On March 25 2011 04:00 gREIFOCs wrote: Did anyone said: "Just spread your marines more?". I mean, as Zerg going infestors before 3 bases is really gas heavy. One infestor could be replaced by 6 banelings. So cost-wise, just a well spread army of marines really makes fg not really cost effective. I think this is a good solution, given enough space. A pre-split was already a good idea against banelings (not so much against lings.) Notably against players like Leenock who like to lay burrowed banelings around on large maps. Drops will probably have to be bigger and more spread out (not just dropped in a clump) which requires much more attention. What I like about the fungal change is that they made zerg much more dangerous in closed spaces (like the corridor behind the 3rd expansion in xel naga caverns) | ||
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TurtlePerson2
United States218 Posts
On March 25 2011 01:55 TibblesEvilCat wrote: from a zerg view, i can either go infestors OR go muta's, both have a weakness and a streangth mutas cant't deal with a direct attack, infestors can, mutas can deal with seig tanks, infestors can't, mutas grant a small ammount of map controle time, infestors don't. yes i can get both but as zerg you need numbers for things to be effective. i find its really up to you terrans what you do now, mid game now isn't so much of a zerg much react to ### of the terran. I've got the solution for you. Use the mutas for map control and keeping Terran in his base. Expand rapidly and then have so much gas that you can afford the infestors too. | ||
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