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I strongly suggest most, if not all participants in this thread reread the Starcraft 2 Strategy Forum Posting Guidelines at the top of the forum. Any further violations of said thread here and by these users elsewhere will result in moderation. | ||
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Lurk
Germany359 Posts
On March 24 2011 17:54 Elean wrote:Just adapt, poke with marauders instead of marines, or magic box your marines. While some of your points are quite valid, this one got me lying on the floor laughing. I will eat my pants if you show me how to magic box marines against fungal the way you can magic box mutas against thors. The Fungal growth area of effect is 16 times ! larger than thor splash, while at the same time, mutas are a lot bigger than marines. | ||
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Svizcy
Slovenia300 Posts
I just want to throw in some "food for ideas", i'm especialy interested in answers from any 3000 masters terrans or better, because this is very timing-vise thing; 1. the baneling bust; Starting from a normal 2 rax marine pressure oppening, but then taking both gasses a tad faster would alow us to build early siege tech instead of adding 2 more raxes and getting stim. Wouldn't few bunkers and especialy arround 2 siege tanks be able to stop this kind of baneling busts that are currently in use? 2. the mass infestor problem; in the 2 tvz i managed to play, i havent seen a single muta. So bassicly midgame was about roach/infestor and occasionly some lings running arround. No muta means we don't need marines that much to defend tanks, also we don't need to invest in lots of turrets anymore, so we have lots of spare minerals here. So maybe a fast 3rd base as PF and just use it to mine some gass would give us some options of getting a good number of tank/1-2ravens/banshee force with some hellions for herrasing purposes? Could be i'm on compleatly stupid idea, but atm cant test it cause i'm at work. Maybe someone of you give such mix a try? good day, svizcy | ||
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Gigaschatten
Germany79 Posts
Let's see how people will adapt to this play. Since many players will now probably use the infestors in combination with burrow, we might see more detectors used in all MU's. Even on Zerg side. | ||
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guldurkhand
Netherlands71 Posts
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Rashid
191 Posts
On March 24 2011 19:04 Alpina wrote: Not going to argue with someone who has no idea what he is talking about. Seriously your every post in this thread is nonsense. You're right, arguments backed up by facts are complete nonsense. How silly of me. | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
The frustrating thing about baneling busts is that they have to be blind hard countered and they are performed almost completely blind, and that the builds that are best at stopping them aren't the best at stopping the other Zerg build which is a really fast 3rd (fast stim + medivacs, which is balls against baneling bust). This is one hugely annoying thing about TvZ atm, how hard it can be to correctly detect it and make the proper adjustment to stop it. Anyway, with stopping banes, yeah, tank as fast as you can with your first 2 gas. Whether it's a 2 rax fe or a 1 rax fe, tanks are your best bet. Blue flame hellions can do ok, but tanks are the optimal. 2) I've seen plenty of mutas, but yeah, infestors. Well, build tanks, engage slowly, keep an eye on his hive tech. There's nothing strictly different about playing against infestors in terms of how you play TvZ, it's just a fuckload more punishing when you get caught out, imo. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Because they didn't add that HP buff, Infestors still die in 2 tanks shot too. It can be hard for Zerg to keep them alive during a battle, as Fungal range is not that big. | ||
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Schism
Australia85 Posts
I'm going to try the hellions/banshee way that someone earlier in the thread mentioned. As for ghosts, that is laughable. As someone pointed out, there is a reason why people keep linking the same freak of nature ghost vs. z replay for months now - because it rarely works, and probably never for people who have less than godly micro, so examples are few and far between. Now in 1.3 the situation is worse than before with the ghosts nerf. A slow building, expensive gas intensive unit with a single purpose in the MU, that can only be effective if used almost perfectly, and even then will only nullfiy a small part of the (now inevitable) large amount of infestors that will appear. On top of that, according to the Z players in here, T are now supposed to incorporate many more tanks and possibly even ravens into the MU. And....sacrifice their economy macro to constantly scan for burrowed infestors, so that their possibly semi-effective ghosts can find them and EMP/snipe them. Assuming that all Z are morons and don't protect their infestors. Nah, the answer isn't ghosts or mech, i suspect if there is an answer, it will lie in a couple of pros showing the way with an unexpected strategy. | ||
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aloT
England1042 Posts
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Cibron
Sweden253 Posts
On March 24 2011 18:12 Alpina wrote: If siege marine never worked for you then you just don't know how to use them - it has nothing to do with infestors. Also this infestor change is only good if zerg has a lot of infestors! It doesn't change much when zerg has 1-2 infestors. And if zerg has a lot of infestors that mean he has much less mutas and banelings. Terran players make seem like infesors are super strong now, while the biggest change is that people started to use them more frequently, that's why it looks like that. well yeah, I suck at marine siege. I'm so cheap I dont want to sac a single tank to mutas so I tend to overreact to the flying blob and move all my marnies after it. Then the zerglnigs come from the other direction and rape my tanks and then the zerg tops it off with blings that instarape the rest of the army. And don't post TvZ battles are equal in micro because we all know how blings roll into clumped armies, and we see it on master streams too. I'm not complaining about the infestor change - I just have problems with the matchup and need advice. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On March 24 2011 20:10 Cibron wrote: well yeah, I suck at marine siege. I'm so cheap I dont want to sac a single tank to mutas so I tend to overreact to the flying blob and move all my marnies after it. Then the zerglnigs come from the other direction and rape my tanks and then the zerg tops it off with blings that instarape the rest of the army. And don't post TvZ battles are equal in micro because we all know how blings roll into clumped armies, and we see it on master streams too. I'm not complaining about the infestor change - I just have problems with the matchup and need advice. Running banelings after the marines for zerg players is much easier, BUT if you can split marines well then you have a huge advantage, and you are going to win a fight. That means that marines have huge potencial being very good even vs. banelings, while banelings are going to be always the same - you just move command them, and if terran have good micro they just die. | ||
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NismoCOB
Switzerland1 Post
So if you keep poking at different spots, you can easily get around that issue. | ||
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Willes
Germany199 Posts
 .its time to use higher tecth to counter infestors, try ghosts and ravens, or blueflame masshellions... | ||
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Asparagus
United States269 Posts
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Blizzard_torments_me
Romania199 Posts
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Willes
Germany199 Posts
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Gigaschatten
Germany79 Posts
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Lurk
Germany359 Posts
On March 24 2011 20:49 Willes wrote: oh, so now T cant play with marine (T1) , tank only, what a sad story .its time to use higher tecth to counter infestors, try ghosts and ravens, or blueflame masshellions... Terran don't use low tier units by choice, they use them because their higher tier units suck. I'd love to use more of my high tech units like thors, bcs, banshees, ravens - but they are even more susceptible to infestors than marines are - neural parasite completely shuts down terran high tech units. Before the patch, zerg didn't get many infestors so you could at least use a few bcs or thors but now every zerg is gonna have infestors in their army and if you use thors/bcs you are just asking to be NP'ed. Also, it's quite funny that you suggest using higher tier units and list ghosts and hellions as examples, which are quite low tech. Infestors are as bad a design as templars are, because the combination of their 2 spells make them effective against a wide range of units. I wish they'd distribute the 2 spells among different units. The only units that neither neural parasite nor fungal growth are effective against is probably the siege tank and maybe marauders. So you effectively need tanks just to protect the rest of your army from infestors - which is not bad in itself, it just makes the matchup more one-dimensional and also creates problems on some (big) maps. | ||
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REM.ca
Canada354 Posts
I think I'll be more than happy if zerg are rushing to infestor if that means skimping out on some mutas. If my 2-3 turrets per base can *gasp!* ACTUALLY hold off mutas now because they'll be in reasonable numbers, I'll be a happy Terran. Wow, imagine a meta-game where it is reasonable for Terran to move out of his base now. Might not have to go all-in now if backstabs aren't a problem anymore. | ||
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REM.ca
Canada354 Posts
Not a replay but I made a video to demonstrate the potential of snipe: I realize this kind of experiment in the unit tester doesn't have much natural validity. Whether or not the potential of ghosts can be exploited in a real game scenario definitely needs a lot of experimenting. | ||
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