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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
On March 23 2011 18:07 NikonTC wrote: actually i just tried out 1.3 battlecruisers, and holy hell they're fast. fuck messing around with ghosts just get a few bcs and yamato the infestors Before you know it your BCs will end up yamatoing eachother (I take it NP cancels a yamato cast in progress?) | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
I say you just need to be more methodical with your attacks. Walking up with a bunch of tanks then sieging when the zling bane charge comes in won't work anymore. You will actually need to preemptively siege and spread (good scouting!). The idea is very simple but execution will take some time to learn. Terrans are going to complain for a few months about how zerg can just hit f and own their super execution intense attack. Then every single competent terran will learn how to properly execute this methodical push and we will be back to zerg complaining about how cost effective the terran ball is. It is the circle of TvZ yo. Fungal threat just limits your main army mobility and punishes those who ignore it. | ||
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CompanionQue
United States59 Posts
Its getting more and more habitual to try to do a big all in vs zerg, and getting abit better looking to go to a late game with a protoss since warp in storms aren't a concern. At the league in i'm though I really can't complain too much, if anything my losses are still usually macro problems honestly, but dealing with this increase of infestors and sentries play is troublesome with my current apm. | ||
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hahaimhenry
Canada368 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:10 HitStarcraft wrote: You do realize you're are *itching about how your teir one units are being killed by teir 1.5 and teir 2 units in your 1st two points. Its really sad. And You do know you have other units besides the marines and medivacs at your disposal. Mech is extremely expensive, and even if you get them, mutas + infestors will roll over it. | ||
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NikonTC
United Kingdom418 Posts
On March 23 2011 18:09 EmilA wrote: Before you know it your BCs will end up yamatoing eachother (I take it NP cancels a yamato cast in progress?) think of it this way, a NP-ing infestor is an infestor that cant fungal growth your marines. so just run up and snipe it | ||
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OPman
United States131 Posts
On March 23 2011 19:09 NikonTC wrote: think of it this way, a NP-ing infestor is an infestor that cant fungal growth your marines. so just run up and snipe it No one pushes with just 1 infestor. Ghosts or mass tanks are a necessity. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
2. Drops are much harder to execute - Good zergs are now camping 1 infestor at each base. The instant marines my 8 marines finish dropped they would unburrow the infestor and drop my marine ball's HP to red before any real damage can be done. Add in one spine crawler per base and my drop is pretty much useless. (Before I would be able to snipe off a spine crawler, but now because fungal drops my marine's HP so fast, spine crawlers can 1 shot a marine) FG change does not really matter vs. terran drops. The most important thing here is that duration of catching medivac is 2x less. If you have infestor at you base waiting for fungal 8 dropped marines, then it does not matter what patch it is - 1 fungal still does the same damage to the marines. You can consider this fungal change as a nerf is zerg uses just few infestors to support his army (which zerg usually does), but it is buff if zerg uses huge amount of infestors to damage your army. And huge amount of infestors means less mutas and less banelings as you may know. Edit: and seriously you complain that you now may need even 2 EMPs to make infestors completely useless? | ||
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
I thought the corruptors were getting a +6 armor bonus? which would of been huge but i didn't see it on the patch notes. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:10 HitStarcraft wrote: You do realize you're are *itching about how your teir one units are being killed by teir 1.5 and teir 2 units in your 1st two points. Its really sad. And You do know you have other units besides the marines and medivacs at your disposal. Why for god's sake do people keep bringing up the stupid 'tiers' all the time when one unit combination supposedly loses to another. First of all the entire use of tiers is a bit silly in starcraft 2. Terran 'tiers' are completely not comparible with Zerg 'tiers' at all. In a way you could call stim + shield marines a higher tier then hellions as it actually takes more upgrades... Also sc2 isn't based on the idea that higher tier units are automatically better, this may be the case in other RTSes like Red Alert or whatever but is actually a crappy mechanism. The diversity of sc2 and sc:bw is based alot on the fact that you still need to make tier 1 units in the lategame, rushing to high tier units only which replace lower tier units leads to boring gameplay. Stating that higher tier units SHOULD beat lower tier numbers is just incredibly stupid, often it is true but there are tons of cases where it isn't. In TvZ marines are just a must build unit because of mutalisks. Sure thors counter mutalisks as well but don't have the mobility to compete on most maps, 'tier 1' units are just essential in this matchup and in fact every matchup... | ||
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Eleaven
772 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:41 NikonTC wrote: looking at it, you gotta say that snipe is better now. 75 ghost energy to kill the infestor as opposed to to 75 energy to remove 100 of it's energy. (It takes three sniper shots to kill an infestor because they regen 1 HP between the first and second shots, fucking things). but the micro required to line up 3 sniper shots in a row, when you consider the poor vision that terrans have means that you'd have to have insane reactions and accuracy to take one out before it fungals your army scan is really bad, i feel for you. | ||
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Candles
United Kingdom103 Posts
This is a strategy thread and the OP was in no way complaining. Just pointing out what to look for in TvZ and hoping someone may have thought of some things to help him out. Come on TL forums you're better than this! | ||
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Dismantlethethroat
114 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
I haven't played with 1.3 yet, but i can understand terrans frustration. I think a good switch would be to add more marauders into the marine ball, even with upgraded fungal DPS they still survive 3 fungals, 1 more than marines, and they can be used to snipe infestors if you can get a flank or can be used to snipe the defending infestor in a drop. The best way to deal with infestors still is positioning, though. Stay in range of the tanks, split units and hope the "psi storm that stuns your units" hits as few as possible. | ||
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On March 23 2011 21:12 Candles wrote: I don't think the Terran's are complaining. I think we're using this as a brainstorming thread and instead some Zerg have come in and trolled the post by suggesting we're whining about imbalance. This is a strategy thread and the OP was in no way complaining. Just pointing out what to look for in TvZ and hoping someone may have thought of some things to help him out. Come on TL forums you're better than this! It's okey to discuss strategy, but if terran comes and says "Now I need 2 EMPs to disable infestors with full energy.." then it's just straight up whining. I mean not only infestors with 150 energy is very rare in ZvT, but if you got 1 emp on infestor with 150 energy then you just removed one extra fungal. That's such a minor change I have no idea why would someone complain about that? | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
On March 23 2011 21:17 Morfildur wrote: As a Zerg i use infestors a lot in the last few weeks and they were already extremely strong, preventing any drop play, hellion harass, banshee harass or stim marine pushes. I haven't played with 1.3 yet, but i can understand terrans frustration. I think a good switch would be to add more marauders into the marine ball, even with upgraded fungal DPS they still survive 3 fungals, 1 more than marines, and they can be used to snipe infestors if you can get a flank or can be used to snipe the defending infestor in a drop. The best way to deal with infestors still is positioning, though. Stay in range of the tanks, split units and hope the "psi storm that stuns your units" hits as few as possible. Skimping on marines is just asking for the zerg to mass mutas to take advantage of your lower marine count, which would be potentially worst for the terran as zergs would lose a minimal amoubt of mutas and mass a muta deathball which could potentially wreak havoc | ||
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Lurk
Germany359 Posts
Up until now i've been fine with using tanks to counter infestors, i don't see a reason why that would change. Plus, tanks are also pretty good versus other zerg ground - unlike ghosts. I've played around a lot with ghosts in TvZ and it never really seemed to pay off. A money EMP on the infestors might save your day, but so would tanks instead of ghosts. And snipe is really a joke - i don't know if there one ability in the game that requires this much apm and accuracy to be used semi-efficiently (try sniping a couple of banes that are rolling into your line - it's like whack-on-mole on steroids). I may just be me or more specifically my sub-par apm but i never found much use for ghosts in TvZ. | ||
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Tical3000
40 Posts
On March 23 2011 21:48 Lurk wrote: I don't think ghosts are the answer to this. While it may work now, in time zergs will learn not to clump their infestors, just like toss split their HTs. Also, infestors are huge and don't clump so much so you only get like 2-3 with an emp. Coupled with the incredible with cost of ghosts and their uselessness besides emp in the mu - i don't know. Up until now i've been fine with using tanks to counter infestors, i don't see a reason why that would change. Plus, tanks are also pretty good versus other zerg ground - unlike ghosts. I've played around a lot with ghosts in TvZ and it never really seemed to pay off. A money EMP on the infestors might save your day, but so would tanks instead of ghosts. And snipe is really a joke - i don't know if there one ability in the game that requires this much apm and accuracy to be used semi-efficiently (try sniping a couple of banes that are rolling into your line - it's like whack-on-mole on steroids). I may just be me or more specifically my sub-par apm but i never found much use for ghosts in TvZ. I wouldn't completely rule out ghosts in TvZ... It'll take a ton of practice but.. eventually I think ghosts will become extreemly effective TvZ.. | ||
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REM.ca
Canada354 Posts
On March 23 2011 21:48 Lurk wrote: incredible with cost of ghosts and their uselessness besides emp in the mu (...) And snipe is really a joke (...) - i don't know if there one ability in the game that requires this much apm and accuracy to be used semi-efficiently (try sniping a couple of banes that are rolling into your line - it's like whack-on-mole on steroids). I really have not been getting the same experience as you. Snipe is sooooo awesome in TvZ. You can get Ghost cost effectivemess with it vs every zerg unit except ling and roaches. It's not that hard to keep r pressed and click away at units is it? I can have 3 split ghosts vs 18 banelings and survive. In my opinion, the hard part isn't the apm for snipe, it's the reaction time to start sniping before you die. With Zerg units being so fricking fast, if you're not paying attention, you might miss your chance (especially if your busy splitting the rest of your bio). This comes back to the fundamentals of trying to engage off creep and keeping your bio inside your siege tank cover I guess. | ||
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Maynarde
Australia1286 Posts
On March 23 2011 18:07 NikonTC wrote: actually i just tried out 1.3 battlecruisers, and holy hell they're fast. fuck messing around with ghosts just get a few bcs and yamato the infestors Oh my god. I just never even thought anything of this patch change until I saw BC's in a game that were micro-ing away from my Hyrdalisks ... | ||
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Lurk
Germany359 Posts
On March 23 2011 22:57 REM.ca wrote:I can have 3 split ghosts vs 18 banelings and survive. Wow, then you really are a lot better in micro than me. I mean i'm not complaining, it's ok for the game to require actual skill sometimes. I'm just saying that the micro required to make ghosts work with snipe is beyond my skill. I'm certainly no micro god but at 3500 masters, i cannot make it work. | ||
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