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I strongly suggest most, if not all participants in this thread reread the Starcraft 2 Strategy Forum Posting Guidelines at the top of the forum. Any further violations of said thread here and by these users elsewhere will result in moderation. |
On March 23 2011 16:39 imBLIND wrote:
Terrans took a huge hit in this patch. Bio isn't durable enough to be the staple army anymore.
I still think the answer lies somewhere in biomech where you get the both of both worlds, but getting enough gas, let alone minerals, to support that kind of army is ridiculous. I find myself having too small an army when I'm facing off vs a muta/ling player.
You think Infestor/Baneling isn't gas heavy?
The OP is a testament to what's wrong with TL these days, Infestor/Baneling is so powerful, whine whine whine.
First of all patch has been out for one day, yes I'm waiting for someone to claim they played 1k+ games on PTR but let's get real none of this has really been tested yet.
Second of all, Infestor/Baneling is pretty useless at pushing a base, it's much more effective and worker bombs and army fights however not an army with a lot of longevity.
The amount of gas required to support this kind of army is insane, just as it has always been. Infestors are sure strong now but on 2 base saturated a Zerg will be struggling to get this kind of composition rolling especially after doing a standard muta/ling opening.
The key to this is as always shut down a Zerg's 3rd base and he won't have enough gas to support a large army of these gas heavy units.
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On March 23 2011 19:07 hahaimhenry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 17:10 HitStarcraft wrote:
You do realize you're are *itching about how your teir one units are being killed by teir 1.5 and teir 2 units in your 1st two points. Its really sad. And You do know you have other units besides the marines and medivacs at your disposal. Mech is extremely expensive, and even if you get them, mutas + infestors will roll over it.
indeed, i cry a little bit inside i see ignorant garbage like that.
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On March 23 2011 23:07 Lurk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 22:57 REM.ca wrote:I can have 3 split ghosts vs 18 banelings and survive. Wow, then you really are a lot better in micro than me. I mean i'm not complaining, it's ok for the game to require actual skill sometimes. I'm just saying that the micro required to make ghosts work with snipe is beyond my skill. I'm certainly no micro god but at 3500 masters, i cannot make it work.
Nah it's really not that hard. Remember Ghosts can take 5 bling hits before dying so you only need to land 4 snipes. Give it 2 minutes of practice and you'll be coming out of that fight alive easypeazy.
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On March 23 2011 23:13 REM.ca wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 23:07 Lurk wrote:On March 23 2011 22:57 REM.ca wrote:I can have 3 split ghosts vs 18 banelings and survive. Wow, then you really are a lot better in micro than me. I mean i'm not complaining, it's ok for the game to require actual skill sometimes. I'm just saying that the micro required to make ghosts work with snipe is beyond my skill. I'm certainly no micro god but at 3500 masters, i cannot make it work. Nah it's really not that hard. Remember Ghosts can take 5 bling hits before dying so you only need to land 4 snipes. Give it 2 minutes of practice and you'll be coming out of that fight alive easypeazy.
Show us a replay please
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Have just played 5 ladder games zvt and i think zerg is getting op with the new patch.
I though zvt was the most balanced mu earlier.
It is so easy to fungal marines and terran has to turtle even more. I liked the part where there where 2 or 3 fights going on all over the map. Drops will be taken care of so easy and all the bio...
Just my 5 Cents...
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people saying the infestor change didn't change how it effects drops or marines are just stupid..
I play zerg, and if you cant understand that the SAME damage in LESS time = MORE DPS = BUFF... then you need to go back to school.
The increase in DPS means that medivacs can't heal through the damage as fast, which means everything dies faster, which means FG is better.
Healing bus drops were way too strong before, 8 rines and a medivac were free to pillage zerg bases, snipe buildings and rape mineral lines as they pleased until mutas or sneaky burrowed banes came out... the ability to position yourself behind minerals and kill swarms of zerg units or just get picked up and fly to the next mineral line in the early game now has an effective counter.
You still have a timing window where drops are effective unless zerg rushes to infestors, in which case you can marine scv all in him and gg.
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It's a buff in some respects, and a nerf in others. If you were someone who used Infestors to delay pushes, then you can only delay them half as long with the same number of Infestors. If you use it to DPS down a drop quickly, then it kills them twice as fast.
Judging by what people have been saying in this thread, heavier Hellion play would be my recommendation. They take up a fair amount of space and tend to travel in a line rather than a big ball, so even a good fungal shouldn't hit too many.
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OMG, I love 1.3 in ZvT.... It’s about time Blizz fix this imba bull. Now all of u T players need to actually learn how to play good micro game.
The only advise that I can give T is to go hellion (herast)> splash of banshee(herast) > Tank Ghost Marauder (ghost not so much to EMP but to snip). The good timing will be a key from now on...
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On March 23 2011 23:13 REM.ca wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 23:07 Lurk wrote:On March 23 2011 22:57 REM.ca wrote:I can have 3 split ghosts vs 18 banelings and survive. Wow, then you really are a lot better in micro than me. I mean i'm not complaining, it's ok for the game to require actual skill sometimes. I'm just saying that the micro required to make ghosts work with snipe is beyond my skill. I'm certainly no micro god but at 3500 masters, i cannot make it work. Nah it's really not that hard. Remember Ghosts can take 5 bling hits before dying so you only need to land 4 snipes. Give it 2 minutes of practice and you'll be coming out of that fight alive easypeazy.
I understood your statement in the way that you would kill all those 18 banes before they reach your line. This way, it makes a lot more sense.
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On March 23 2011 23:38 caracarn wrote:
I though zvt was the most balanced mu earlier.
Just my 5 Cents...
The only reason u think that is becouse u won 99% of the time
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 23 2011 23:56 PLxDratewka wrote:
OMG, I love 1.3 in ZvT.... It’s about time Blizz fix this imba bull. Now all of u T players need to actually learn how to play good micro game.
The only advise that I can give T is to go hellion (herast)> splash of banshee(herast) > Tank Ghost Marauder (ghost not so much to EMP but to snip). The good timing will be a key from now on...
Can we ban this idiot? I've tried ghosts some more this morning - no luck, far too situational. The problem is that you need TWO emps to nullify an infestor that's been saving up energy.
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Tachion and I played some test games and I fully expect infestors to become standard in TvZ. Grante,d Tachion is a better player but we were both surprised to see two fungals pretty much elminate my marauders. Something like 31 hp were remaining on them after two fungals. I believe he said pre-patch it would have been 89 hp?
As a Terran I'm still looking for answers. I'll try ghost but I don't feel like they're a viable answer since infestors can burrow.
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On March 24 2011 00:00 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 23:56 PLxDratewka wrote:
OMG, I love 1.3 in ZvT.... It’s about time Blizz fix this imba bull. Now all of u T players need to actually learn how to play good micro game.
The only advise that I can give T is to go hellion (herast)> splash of banshee(herast) > Tank Ghost Marauder (ghost not so much to EMP but to snip). The good timing will be a key from now on... Can we ban this idiot? I've tried ghosts some more this morning - no luck, far too situational. The problem is that you need TWO emps to nullify an infestor that's been saving up energy.
Ban ??? Idiot ??? it’s just an opinion u know, take it or live it, I am 3k zerg and all I can do is give my prospective from zerg point of view..
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On March 23 2011 18:07 NikonTC wrote:
actually i just tried out 1.3 battlecruisers, and holy hell they're fast. fuck messing around with ghosts just get a few bcs and yamato the infestors
Yes, luckily they don't have some unit to neural parasite your BC's ...
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On March 23 2011 17:10 HitStarcraft wrote:
You do realize you're are *itching about how your teir one units are being killed by teir 1.5 and teir 2 units in your 1st two points. Its really sad. And You do know you have other units besides the marines and medivacs at your disposal.
He's terran, of course he doesn't use anything but tier one units. Soon the game'll develop where terran isn't allowed mobility because you know, our tier one are dying to everything. Just a question: why do magic boxed mutas counter thors so hard? I mean tier three vs tier two. Magic box isn't hard to do either.
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On March 24 2011 00:23 manicshock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 17:10 HitStarcraft wrote:
You do realize you're are *itching about how your teir one units are being killed by teir 1.5 and teir 2 units in your 1st two points. Its really sad. And You do know you have other units besides the marines and medivacs at your disposal. He's terran, of course he doesn't use anything but tier one units. Soon the game'll develop where terran isn't allowed mobility because you know, our tier one are dying to everything. Just a question: why do magic boxed mutas counter thors so hard? I mean tier three vs tier two. Magic box isn't hard to do either.
You know, if you're still thinking of strategy games as tier1< tier2<tier3 , you might want to discuss something else.
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On March 24 2011 00:00 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 23:56 PLxDratewka wrote:
OMG, I love 1.3 in ZvT.... It’s about time Blizz fix this imba bull. Now all of u T players need to actually learn how to play good micro game.
The only advise that I can give T is to go hellion (herast)> splash of banshee(herast) > Tank Ghost Marauder (ghost not so much to EMP but to snip). The good timing will be a key from now on... Can we ban this idiot? I've tried ghosts some more this morning - no luck, far too situational. The problem is that you need TWO emps to nullify an infestor that's been saving up energy.
Blatant flaming in a strategy forum isn't exactly the best way to get your point across man.
Why do you need to EMP twice? Wouldn't it be better to snipe twice (or 3 times, if they regenerate the 1 hp fast enough)? It's a third (or half) the energy usage, and the Infestor is dead on top of not being able to cast.
edit: upon further inspection, the guy even suggested sniping over EMP...
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it takes 3 snipe rounds to kill an infestor, it has range 10. It takes about 2.5 seconds to snipe 3 times, 99% of the time, you will land 2 snipes, only to have the infestor scoot away with 1 hp. When you have 5 infestors, it would takes FIFTEEN snipes.
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Raven seeker missle mech play could work but I worry that you could not support the gas required.
/brain storming.
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On March 24 2011 00:00 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 23:56 PLxDratewka wrote:
OMG, I love 1.3 in ZvT.... It’s about time Blizz fix this imba bull. Now all of u T players need to actually learn how to play good micro game.
The only advise that I can give T is to go hellion (herast)> splash of banshee(herast) > Tank Ghost Marauder (ghost not so much to EMP but to snip). The good timing will be a key from now on... Can we ban this idiot? I've tried ghosts some more this morning - no luck, far too situational. The problem is that you need TWO emps to nullify an infestor that's been saving up energy.
That is how the mass infestor plays were handled during the GSL (marauder Ghost). Even if it is only 100 energy gone, that reduces an infestor down to 1 fungal, which if they are spending money/supply on Infestors instead of Banelings and Muta, is still pretty harsh.
it takes 3 snipe rounds to kill an infestor, it has range 10. It takes about 2.5 seconds to snipe 3 times, 99% of the time, you will land 2 snipes, only to have the infestor scoot away with 1 hp. When you have 5 infestors, it would takes FIFTEEN snipes.
BratOk gets quite a few ghosts late game to snipe Broodlords and Infestors. When there are 6-7 Ghosts, Infestors/lords pop VERY quickly. The only person I've seen be able to handle his style of play is Darkforce who relied on NPing the Ghosts to EMP the pack of them
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EPT
