EPTIn theory, I'm thinking 3 gate blink stalkers with armor upgrades would be the best way to stay alive against it and that would transition nicely into HTs.
[G] StimmedProbe’s Million Man Marine TvP Style - Page 10
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Unwardil
Canada188 Posts
In theory, I'm thinking 3 gate blink stalkers with armor upgrades would be the best way to stay alive against it and that would transition nicely into HTs. | ||
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koveras
163 Posts
I really dont know if this strat is viable. Its easy to scout and protoss can respond by FE himself or do early pressure. This kind of feels like the 3RR (I know this strat is not a rush but its hard to switch to something else when it fails) which whas fun untill people realised how to beat it. Surprisingly enough I won against the zerg player but he did a 1base baneling all-in which I managed to survive and handed his ass to him. Also mass marines is nothing new against zerg. | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
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misaTO
Argentina204 Posts
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falstag
United States55 Posts
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ROOTdrewbie
Canada1392 Posts
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
@above Hey Drewbie. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On March 19 2011 03:47 misaTO wrote: What's the difference between Reactors and Extra raxes. Perhaps with the money saved you can get a starport so you can MM. Tempo. Reactors take a long time to build and you want to be putting on nonstop pressure | ||
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Drunkasarous
United States96 Posts
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misaTO
Argentina204 Posts
On March 19 2011 04:04 drewbie.root wrote: It is a good strat, the trick is to constantly pressure your opponent with marines, it will be an even fight at first if they are constantly pumping gateway units, but if you are non-stop attacking then when they try to start teching you should be able to break the protoss, you don't want to let them get colossus or templars, and if you do then obviously you have to switch out of marines because they just arent viable vs zealot + 1 sentry for guardian shield + colossus. This build isn't meant for tvz, a good zerg will make only zergling baneling and then you are doomed. Not exactly. It's the same principle in MarineKing's scv/marine presure vs Z. | ||
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Unwardil
Canada188 Posts
On March 19 2011 03:47 misaTO wrote: What's the difference between Reactors and Extra raxes. Perhaps with the money saved you can get a starport so you can MM. Partially answered by someone else in that you want to constantly be producing marines and a racks building a reactor can't also be training a marine, but additionally, it gives you the option to add on a techlab at a later time to make marauders. Makes it far less all in, whereas building reactors means you're stuck making just marines out of that barracks. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
On March 19 2011 03:47 misaTO wrote: What's the difference between Reactors and Extra raxes. Perhaps with the money saved you can get a starport so you can MM. it's a lot of down time where you aren't making marines. There are probably timings where it would be beneficial to add reactors I would think that's later in the game and you would want to stagger them. The extra money won't be going to medivacs if you are using the mineral heavy build laid out in the op, you don't have much gas and it all goes into upgrades. That's the edge you get with this build, lots of minerals which translates to lots of marines. I would love to add medivacs in, as I mentioned at first in this thread, but all that teching and the gas required seriously eats into the marine count. Early on that matters a ton, although maybe you can get away with it later in the game with 3+ bases. At that point you have more economy, they're more spread out, and you need to split up their ball and abuse how slow their aoe units are. On March 17 2011 15:37 eastdragon wrote: Works extremely well against Z? I would think this would fail miserably to speedlings &/or banelings though, no? Although I haven't tried this in 1v1, I know it's definitely a decent build to use in team games, as I've done something similar with a fair amount of success. It's great for both rushing & defending against rushes, as well as defending against most types of cheese strategies. People have been using mass marine against Zerg for months. Antisocialmunky had a thread about marine/raven that got a lot of people trying the marines, and MKP really popularized the style in the GSL with his insane micro. It's really difficult but since zerg's aoe unit kills itself you can make very cost effective trades with good splitting. Zergs have adapted and it's harder now than it used to be, more of them have learned the dangerous timings and learned to stay on low tech and get faster upgrades, and rely more on speedlings. I still think it's fine against Zerg though, upgraded marines with medivacs are very good all game. For me I just ended up skipping ravens so often and winning without them, although I'll admit it's much more fun with them. It's funny, in that thread people would ask if mass marines could be viable against P and T as well, and everybody would say "no, their aoe is too good". I was guilty of it too, being close-minded does not good innovation make. I even thought that marine tank was kind of bad when I first started seeing it - "banelings kill marines and mutas kill tanks" - now I find it's actually decent in every matchup. So I've stopped using theory to write off strategies, it just makes me worse at Starcraft. I agree with Drewbie that having no tech is hard against a mass upgraded ling/bling Zerg. I feel like you need medivacs there, which means a lot more gas, plus really fast upgrades. It's definitely different from this build but I don't think mass marines against Zerg is a dead strategy. | ||
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chonkyfire
United States451 Posts
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chonkyfire
United States451 Posts
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misaTO
Argentina204 Posts
People have been using mass marine against Zerg for months. Antisocialmunky had a thread about marine/raven that got a lot of people trying the marines, and MKP really popularized the style in the GSL with his insane micro. It's really difficult but since zerg's aoe unit kills itself you can make very cost effective trades with good splitting. Zergs have adapted and it's harder now than it used to be, more of them have learned the dangerous timings and learned to stay on low tech and get faster upgrades, and rely more on speedlings. I still think it's fine against Zerg though, upgraded marines with medivacs are very good all game. For me I just ended up skipping ravens so often and winning without them, although I'll admit it's much more fun with them. It's funny, in that thread people would ask if mass marines could be viable against P and T as well, and everybody would say "no, their aoe is too good". I was guilty of it too, being close-minded does not good innovation make. I even thought that marine tank was kind of bad when I first started seeing it - "banelings kill marines and mutas kill tanks" - now I find it's actually decent in every matchup. So I've stopped using theory to write off strategies, it just makes me worse at Starcraft. I agree with Drewbie that having no tech is hard against a mass upgraded ling/bling Zerg. I feel like you need medivacs there, which means a lot more gas, plus really fast upgrades. It's definitely different from this build but I don't think mass marines against Zerg is a dead strategy. SCVs as meatshields ftw. Although this is an earlygame sugestion, this type of marine agression leaves room to a transition into whatever you feel like. I mean, you will always have a gas surplus because you commit to marines only so you can build a single factory or starport and start pumping additional units. Let's put it this way : A thor = 6 marines. If you stop pumping marines for only 35 seconds, you can build 1 thor too. This is what I would do as a "transition". Mass Marine Army into a Mass Marine Army plus 1 or 2 thors. You basically switch a Techlabbed Rax with the Brand new Starport OR Factory (you only build ONE) and you start building a Thor, a Raven or a Medivac as a "lategame" option. | ||
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policymaker
Greece152 Posts
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Tenspeed
Sweden28 Posts
On March 19 2011 05:14 chonkyfire wrote: remember zealots/stalkers take 3 damage from marines with guardian shield, and if toss goes for +1 armor like a lot have been doing lately that damage goes to 2 I believe it was mentioned in the guide that you need to snipe off the sentries early. It is not as easy as it seems to try and keep a decent sentry count while still having gas to get upgrades or higher tech against someone doing this. | ||
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hizBALLIN
United States163 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10292 Posts
It is a good strat, the trick is to constantly pressure your opponent with marines, it will be an even fight at first if they are constantly pumping gateway units, but if you are non-stop attacking then when they try to start teching you should be able to break the protoss, you don't want to let them get colossus or templars, and if you do then obviously you have to switch out of marines because they just arent viable vs zealot + 1 sentry for guardian shield + colossus. This build isn't meant for tvz, a good zerg will make only zergling baneling and then you are doomed. In a recent Day9Daily, a match was shown with HopeTorture (IntoTheRainbow) vs some protoss. The Protoss eventually got HTs, but even then it wasn't enough. You said in your post you don't want them to get higher tech, which is obvious, but you only specify that you have to switch tech if they have Colossi and don't address whether or not you need to switch of they get Templar. If they get HTs, can't you and shouldn't you be able to keep pumping marines so hard it doesn't matter? | ||
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