if the toss could hold off the push with forcefields, could that buy time for colossus on the toss' part?

colossus eat marines for breakfast, just saying. I don't understand too much about protoss early game, but if the protoss can just get through a few "stalemates" where they both lose their army...?

dave333

United States915 Posts

March 14 2011 19:49 GMT

#143

The problem is that if in the first couple of fights those stalemates=lots of sentries dying, then the next couple of fights become "LOL" in terrans favor.

Budmandude

United States123 Posts

March 14 2011 19:52 GMT

#144

On March 13 2011 09:45 thezergk wrote:
I hate to b e this guy but whats the song name in the video?

That's "Slam" by Pendulum. Amazing track by an amazing group.

Wolf

Korea (South)3290 Posts

March 14 2011 19:57 GMT

#145

I've lost to this style before. Or variations of it with a one base push that involve +1, stim, and combat shields. It's hard to hold an FE against this style if your opponent is near you and has good timings.

LanTAs

United States1091 Posts

March 14 2011 19:58 GMT

#146

On March 15 2011 04:48 exploding.godhand wrote:
if the toss could hold off the push with forcefields, could that buy time for colossus on the toss' part?

colossus eat marines for breakfast, just saying. I don't understand too much about protoss early game, but if the protoss can just get through a few "stalemates" where they both lose their army...?

Marines ridiculously good before you have colossus, and by that time teran has medivac and stim, so its ridiculously hard to stop, even with storms, colossus, or stalker/sentries or all because teran just keeps throwing highly upgraded units in your face, and so that pretty much wrecks your army T.T

great job with the build mate, i used it against friend ad it worked =DDDDDD

Trusty

New Zealand520 Posts

March 15 2011 00:17 GMT

#147

I think the key (for p) is to engage the terran away from your expansion. It is alot easier for stalkers to beat marines out in the open, so you have space to retreat.

Washow

Korea (South)119 Posts

March 15 2011 00:45 GMT

#148

Tried it out TvP for the first time and it worked pretty great till the guy went DT and I didn't have any detection

Make a note about adding a raven as the game goes by?

BlinkGosu

United States46 Posts

March 15 2011 04:07 GMT

#149

i think an early enough contain with sentries would obviously be the most eeffective way to stop the build. On another note i would love to play you, however i have no way of contacting you, no i.d. #......

RoyalFlush1994

Singapore30 Posts

March 15 2011 05:53 GMT

#150

cool

bronzeterran

United States296 Posts

March 15 2011 08:06 GMT

#151

On March 15 2011 04:48 exploding.godhand wrote:
if the toss could hold off the push with forcefields, could that buy time for colossus on the toss' part?

colossus eat marines for breakfast, just saying. I don't understand too much about protoss early game, but if the protoss can just get through a few "stalemates" where they both lose their army...?

Colossus are not necessarily that effective vs mass stimmed marines, as illogical as that sounds. I've been shut down at the ramp before by sentries while Toss got his Colossus, but in that case I just expo and leave a super small window for the Toss to get out colossus and get aggressive- if he misses the window, he is stuck trying to defend his natural while I take one or even two more bases, and build a million rax and get upgrades. And even if he hits that timing window, he will have to micro very well against a perfect marine surround (since terran has all the map control and vision), and he will definitely lose the colossi the minute he pokes his head out into open ground. That leaves him racing to finish me off with gateway units before I can pump out enough marines.

I think to stop this (assuming 2 players of equal skill), the Protoss needs to shut it down very early and decisively- either with very early pressure, or by winning the first battle with better micro.

Another thing I've noticed that makes this build just LOL sometimes, is that the Toss will scout the fast expo, and take a fast expo of his own, without scouting again for a few minutes. Many "oh shit" moments happen shortly thereafter

Thrombozyt

Germany1269 Posts

March 15 2011 12:49 GMT

#152

I will have to watch the replay closely, but I have a hard time believing that pure marine will break a 3 gate expand that then techs up to colossi or goes the double forge 6 gate route.

Guardian shield and the base armor of toss units brings the marine damage down to 3 a shot. So you need 42 hits per stalker. If he stays passive and just throws up 2-3 cannons at his natural entrance and defends it with the 5-6 sentries he got while saving minerals for the expand and the stalker he warped in afterwards, you have a hard time attacking cost efficiently. Then he either gets colossi from 2 robos (without range.. they don't need range against pure marine) or double forge and TC.

Grubbegrabbn

Sweden174 Posts

March 15 2011 13:09 GMT

#153

Looks really fun but a bit lame... its very strong in team games. Never thought that it would actually work in 1v1... (in the live streams every Terran is trying this right now

I loose all the time to FF contain into Phoenix/Void rays/Collossi or whatever. Its payback time

Psychlone

Canada90 Posts

March 15 2011 14:49 GMT

#154

I miss the days when Dark Templars would one shot marines without needing +3 attack.

kcdc

United States2311 Posts

March 15 2011 17:06 GMT

#155

This is good if P lets you have the expo, but a zealot+stalker poke will deny the CC at the natural.

OverZero

United States271 Posts

March 15 2011 17:34 GMT

#156

What would you do against a protoss that scouts this and goes straight to HT's? I feel like that could cause problems. Say he is openning DT's and scouts the mass mass marines. And starts with ht's quickly. I feel like that could stop this pretty easily.

Dommk

Australia4865 Posts

March 15 2011 17:39 GMT

#157

On March 16 2011 02:34 OverZero wrote:
What would you do against a protoss that scouts this and goes straight to HT's? I feel like that could cause problems. Say he is openning DT's and scouts the mass mass marines. And starts with ht's quickly. I feel like that could stop this pretty easily.

There is no such thing as "quick HTs" when you open DT. DT consumes virtually all your gas, up until you warp in your 3/4 DT's... If he actually tries to tech to Templar while expanding then just go kill him with a Raven. He is probably going to have like 3 Zealots and a few Stalkers against 30+ Marines..

Aterons_toss

Romania1275 Posts

March 15 2011 17:43 GMT

#158

One word, DT.
If the toss goes for DT you won't have enough scans, DTs 1 shoot marines and 2 shoot shield marines
and if you just stay in your base and w8 for a raven then the toss will have time to get storm or colossus.

genius_man16

United States749 Posts

March 15 2011 17:59 GMT

#159

Could you post a replay of you holding off a 4-gate? That's the only build that I'm a little befuddled as to how exactly you hold it off.

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

March 15 2011 18:02 GMT

#160

Coming from a Brood War perspective, the reason why no terran does bio play against protoss is because of storms. I noticed that most people are suggesting standard builds, but quite honestly storms do counter marine balls. This is mostly theorycrafting, but if protoss can survive against mass marine pushes until he has storms, then protoss should win as the storms would kill more marines than what one could build. I have not tested this out yet, but I believe that high templar play would be correct response to this.