lol@ everyone trying this strategy. it takes pretty good micro, game sense, and scouting to take down collosi and templar if the protoss techs up. you will probably need medivacs for positioning, if not - map control and a little luck might help you keep the numbers down.

i didn't read all the thread, but how are sentries faring? gotta snipe them if they gs i guess?

Kazzabiss

1006 Posts

March 13 2011 18:49 GMT

#122

So this is like a, mini, easier, sort of cheesy Sauron Zerg for Terran?

palanq

United States761 Posts

March 13 2011 19:46 GMT

#123

best P response: turtle on 4 gas with stalker (+ enough sentry for guardian shield) until 2+ colossus?

StimmedProbe

Hong Kong98 Posts

March 13 2011 20:27 GMT

#124

I have started to post responses in the OP. I will try to get through as many of them as I can.

HavoK.

United States172 Posts

March 13 2011 21:22 GMT

#125

not gonna lie this seems kinda bad, a good protoss should be able to beat out mass rine with a good gate army use FF to spilt and zealots and stalkers to slowly pick you apart when you try to push in at him. I guess in essence it would come down to the micro ability of your opponent being able to FF properly. and with that being said the question the pops into my head is "Is this strategy good if it relies on my opponent making mistakes?" and that my friend is for you to answer.

P.s. I agree with the people saying that an early aggresive P can keep you up in main for a long time while they get ahead if you only go rine, and by the time you bust out you gonna be so far behind.

JesusNeverGotLaid

Canada24 Posts

March 13 2011 22:07 GMT

#126

Nothing New, Also You need to Expand More.

JesusNeverGotLaid

Canada24 Posts

March 13 2011 22:09 GMT

#127

On March 13 2011 11:43 Carbonthief wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't think stimmed probe is trying to claim any more credit than he deserves, he simply refined a build than he seen someone else did, (which he very openly states) and wanted to share his version of it in great detail.

I don't think people are going to go around calling it the stimmed probe build or anything, it's pretty much going to just be known as "mass marine." What we give stimmed probe credit for will be breaking it down for us to be able to understand it and do it ourselves.

Call it a day9 bulid, he casted a game with this bulid first.

underdawg

United States399 Posts

March 13 2011 22:39 GMT

#128

at least he didn't put "TM" at the end of it, and came up with some catchy slogans "MMM = marine, marine, marine" lol

huyNh

Canada366 Posts

March 13 2011 22:54 GMT

#129

that replay you saw was RainBOw vs SGPrince. it worked because he opened HTs and rainbow was nice with marine splits and the toss couldn't keep up with the constant HT warping. i still think collosi would completely rape this. once the toss finds out you are massing marines, very hard sentry/collsi turtle play while slowly taking a 3rd would decimate this build.

Grimez

Netherlands5 Posts

March 13 2011 23:19 GMT

#130

I really like the style you've developed. I myself play Protoss, and I quite enjoyed the demonstration video that you provided. It seems like a 5/6 gate is the way to go as Protoss if you encounter a Terran employing this strategy, and then it becomes a micro battle, and a game more fun to watch and to play then the standard TvP massive army clashes I reckon.

Furthermore, I agree with your statement that marines are more cost effective than a basic gateway army of stalkers and zealots. You also pointed out that the initial marine push often loses dramatically:

You will probably get raped in the very first battle. The Protoss will forcefield and guardian shield and their army will probably roflstomp yours so hard you will probably think its gg, however as those sentries die off your army gets exponentially strong.

And this is where I think one of the weaknesses of this build lie:

Marines > Stalkers
Marines >> Stalkers & Zealots
Marines << Stalkers & Sentries (& Zealots)

The cost-effectiveness of Marines drops dramatically if Guardian Shield is employed, their DPS drops with approx. 33%. As you stated this is only a problem during the first battle, because the Sentries tend to die during that battle, but how well does this style fare if the Protoss keeps the sentries behind his army and uses them exclusively for guardian shield, and the occasional Force Field to prevent a flank? This is something I'm rather curious about and would've loved to find out in a match against you, sadly I have a EU account, so you're going to have to test that with someone else.

odE

Finland177 Posts

March 13 2011 23:47 GMT

#131

What about against zerg & Terran variations from this?

antz0r

Australia168 Posts

March 13 2011 23:53 GMT

#132

Doesn't work in TvT against anyone with even a modicum of scouting ability.

DarkPlasmaBall

United States45937 Posts

March 13 2011 23:54 GMT

#133

Hey I can't check out the replays at the moment (my computer is acting up), but it appears that you only get 2 marines before fast expanding and making marines/ powering barracks. At what time in the game do you start your true stream of marine production?

I'm asking this because I'm curious about how it fairs against a Korean 4-gate (or any variation of a 4-gate that would finish around 6:30 or earlier). You'd probably have a good 10-15 Protoss units knocking at your door by around the 7 minute mark, not to mention a proxy pylon that would allow constant insane pressure, possibly before you'd have a big enough ball of marines to take it down. A couple of good forcefields (on your ramp to stop reinforcements or during the battle to cut your army in half), one guardian shield, and then stalker/sentry mix, and you may run into trouble early on, no?

FinestHour

United States18466 Posts

March 13 2011 23:55 GMT

#134

Could def see it being very strong in tvz.

Meta

United States6226 Posts

March 14 2011 00:09 GMT

#135

Trump is doing almost this exact build vs zerg right now on his stream.

edit: and it lost horribly

rms_txrx

Brazil1 Post

March 14 2011 00:17 GMT

#136

I don't know what you guys think, but this is obsession with marines. I play in a different way, and I think it can work ... :

Hurry up, go right after two portals. Hurry for 4 zealots and attack. (Always pumping probes).
If your enemy has a wall, don't worry, he sacrificed a few SCV's in order to get the 350 cost structure right away. He lost some time and some resources that you already got. Then, the game is balanced, and you should do what you think is best ( you can't see behind the wall ! ).

Otherwise, go inside. I noticed that the best players have a problem with rushes, so they don't rush each other. He must be building something, and with a little bit of your brain you can micro his few marines to a spot where he can't escape from the zealots.

Ok man, this is just what I think. If you don't like, feel free to talk.

plagiarisedwords

United Kingdom138 Posts

March 14 2011 00:21 GMT

#137

Once this build starts hitting ladder i'll be trying out mass cannons and expand as a strat. I figure this allows me to trade minerals for minerals rather than gas for minerals which sucks. Then use gas for tech to collossus or templar. Cannons will work great even on wide open naturals provided you place them well.

djdoodoo

United Kingdom192 Posts

March 14 2011 00:49 GMT

#138

I thought zealots with charge, cannons and collosus with range would work really wel and a few sentrys here and there but more zealot heavy.

thesauceishot

Canada333 Posts

March 14 2011 01:01 GMT

#139

I've had this done to me when I 2gate FE'd. It was Jungle Basin, so it's definitely easier to hold on that map. But once you get a colossus up, mass marine pressure becomes pretty much ineffective. Since this is a 1rax FE, it will obviously be very vulnerable to 4gates, but it certainly is a build that will give people trouble.

Daozzt

United States1263 Posts

March 14 2011 01:33 GMT

#140

Mass stimmed marines will destroy any protoss unit cost for cost except for high templars and colossus. Also, I think there was a Day9 daily about this exact unit comp/build. You just have to abuse the fact that marines are so mobile and deadly in mid-sized numbers and never let the protoss build/tech up his deathball.