EPT[G] StimmedProbe’s Million Man Marine TvP Style - Page 11
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DougJDempsey
747 Posts
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On March 20 2011 00:28 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: After Patch 1.3 where it seems the Stim Pack will take 30 seconds longer, how do you think it will impact this build? Would you, for example, consider getting +1 attack instead of Stim? Stim is essential, cause it gives you the ability to pick of Protoss Units, (they can't retreat) Stimmed Marines beat Stalkers, outrun zealots, you can only hope to gave enough FF + GS to not die instantly. 30s will most likely delay the push alittle but it will still stay effective. On March 21 2011 02:53 Digamma wrote: Everyone has the same reaction when they lose to this. "i cant believe that works" haha, Marine is one of the effective and cheap units in the game with huge micro potential. If you fight with marines your opponent has to do something to not fight cost inefficient, cause one bad fight means your going to die when the next marine ball comes. | ||
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Kfish
Chile282 Posts
Then i faced this again but against someone that was even more greedy and went CC first, voidray +3gate = win | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Note: He's totally right if you can snipe colossus, you can win with this strategy. If the count can't grow, your opponent is doomed. Replay here.. | ||
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Tenspeed
Sweden28 Posts
On March 21 2011 05:13 Danglars wrote: Played against this, really think Colossus is the answer. I had to pull SO many probes to save my colo from getting sniped. Built into a nice timing attack as my colossus count grew (Keeping marines "manageable" numbers and building enough gateway to be punishing him as him stim chases to kill the colossus). Really, if stim marines are forced to run around a zealot-gateway army I get free kills that way that help ensure my colossus's survival. Note: He's totally right if you can snipe colossus, you can win with this strategy. If the count can't grow, your opponent is doomed. Nicely played sir. I certainly agree with you style of play in this game, I'm not saying early aggression isn't an option if well executed, but alot of protoss players seems to think that a 4gate or gateway play will always break this which just isn't the case. Anywho, your opponents anti-micro in that first engagement aside, I think this goes to show that you have to get a reactored starport(s) ASAP and transition into a somewhat more normal game if the colossus count gets higher than 1. In my limited expercience using this build vs P I've also found DT:s to be very annoying. Not that you will instantly win, but it basically forces the T player to invest in turrets and get a raven out or save up alot of scans, all of which will slows him down considerably. This will force a more normal game since the MMM build really relies on gaining momentum from those first engagements. I don't even think you really have to invest alot of money into actual DTs besides the tech, just the threat of them should be enough, meanwhile, you can expand, get higher tech etc. | ||
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ThunderGod
New Zealand897 Posts
Two things that counter this build in my opinion (I play Terran) 3/4gate-voidray all in is very effective against 1 rax expand, even with several bunkers. 14 Nexus into 6+ gates with/without double ups & charge. Chargelots with attack upgrades rape marines. | ||
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Istvan
22 Posts
Even with marines pumping out of 3 rax, I had to pull scv off the lines twice to defend. Eventually I went to 12 rax and manage to prevent him from expanding. I managed to win after hard fought 20 minutes or so, and my opponent was not pleased. "Looks like marines is all it takes now" before GG-ing out. I am not convinced that this build is as sound as 2 rax early ghost which I usually prefer, but this build is definitely hard to counter. Basically the spam of marines and constant battles will unsettle any opponent who is not mentally prepared, causing him to make mistakes in macro/micro and prevent a good transition. Important points: -Snipe any colossi -Sometimes it is better to run stimmed marines past a protoss ball into their mineral lines because probes are so fragile against stimmed marines -In the midst of the chaos it is important to slowly take a 3rd and 4th, and then transition into vikings and ghosts. | ||
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Dartego
154 Posts
This build is better | ||
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Tonem
Australia91 Posts
I've never thought of trying to refine a mass marine build for 1v1 ladder matches though, so good work on that (Y). I'm still skeptical at how it would fair against a 1-basing protoss player that denies entry up the ramp and makes a big force and pushes out. Even with 3 bases, if they get enough colosus it might be possible to just roll you. Have you tested this build against 1 base colosus? And what do you think the best response to this would be? I know it's a very rare build, but you'd be surprised at how many noob players do it in the lower leagues  .I'm guessing against a protoss just turtling on 1 base you could just tech for ghosts, scan, emp the sentries, run up and suicide marines in, reinforce and win? At any rate I'm going to try this out when I get time and see how it goes, because I'm pretty lost in TvP atm. And I HATE Protoss death balls, which this doesn't allow for  | ||
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Evantas
Singapore61 Posts
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Istvan
22 Posts
About 1-base protoss: With constant pressure, you will be able to force him to forcefield repeatedly (although the battles will favour the toss in terms of losses, the terran FEs mean more production and economy), and the Toss would be forced between sentries (pretty gas heavy early game) and gas-heavy tech like HTs/Colossi/DTs. From experience, the bulk of the protoss ball would be stalkers or zealots if he chooses to favour Colossi then there will be much less sentries, then we can force our way up the ramp and snipe the colossi. | ||
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Tonem
Australia91 Posts
On March 21 2011 18:30 Istvan wrote: Tonem: I think it has to be stressed that this build is not as sound as 3-rax or other ghost openings, but really comes down to mechanics and multitasking ability. About 1-base protoss: With constant pressure, you will be able to force him to forcefield repeatedly (although the battles will favour the toss in terms of losses, the terran FEs mean more production and economy), and the Toss would be forced between sentries (pretty gas heavy early game) and gas-heavy tech like HTs/Colossi/DTs. From experience, the bulk of the protoss ball would be stalkers or zealots if he chooses to favour Colossi then there will be much less sentries, then we can force our way up the ramp and snipe the colossi. Yeah this is a good point, thanks I've tried so many things in TvP it's kind of ridiculous, I'd be glad to play with this build exclusively and see how it works out, even if it isn't as "sound" as others (which I've tried pretty much any you can name T__T). | ||
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ScythedBlade
308 Posts
How do we stop it? We could play defensively unless we tech to collosus. Or we could try mass sentry guardian shield + gateway units =/ However, I still have way too much of a hard time against mass marines. | ||
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DarkblueRH
United States144 Posts
Have a good day! | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On March 21 2011 21:21 ScythedBlade wrote: So I will attest to this: it works way too extremely well. Now the question is: How do we stop it? We could play defensively unless we tech to collosus. Or we could try mass sentry guardian shield + gateway units =/ However, I still have way too much of a hard time against mass marines. the best bet is to realize fast that mass marines is coming. if that the case get a decent gateway army with a couple sentrys (also expanding is very important, cause these repeated attacks can keep you in the defense pretty good and if you don't establish a good economy early this will fire back pretty fast) then tech to colossus but still playing defensive getting a couple canons i think is worth to buy some time. still it comes down to FF and Colossus micro, if you micro poorly even collosus won't help you and then transitioning into Storm to seal the deal. it is incredible how much a Terran can produce thanks to those mules. So for the terrans trying this i think incorporating a couple ghosts (midgame) might be worth a shot. | ||
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Toxictoast1
United States8 Posts
Aside from the silly antics: What makes this strategy efficient is the use of timing pushes. Marines don't take any gas, this makes gas very easy to harvest for things such as abilities and upgrades! In the replays StimmedProbe is doing timing pushes constantly. First a stimpack timing push then a combat shield timing push. These two pushes, even if held off, should take a pretty chunk out of your opponent, therefore, winning just by a flow of marines. However, I have had more success pressing with further timing pushes, infantry weapons plus 1 push, then armor plus 1 push. I have played this strategy several times now and my protoss foes are often vanquished at my infantry weapons plus 1 push. Looking for a counter to this? I suggest watching some of those replays again and looking at timings :D | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
seriously tho, really cool build. if your opponent reacts poorly, this looks like an easy win with proper execution. not so stable it seems if they do a nice 4gate, but if you hold that you win because toss needs tech to kill bio. even tho the only race i don't play is terran, i love this build because it forces toss to play defensively and reactively the way zerg always has to (unless your fucking MorroW). | ||
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Fedor
United States42 Posts
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Istvan
22 Posts
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Dox
Australia1199 Posts
Pretty cool strat, I'll have to try it sometime. | ||
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