EPTThe "fake" 3 gate robo, 1 gate expand - Page 6
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
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Seagull_
75 Posts
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Minigun
619 Posts
Say you are terran, you see a large force with immortals from the watchtower on LT headed to your expansion. You frantically throw down another bunker or two, make sure your units are in position, are you sitting there checking the energy on each sentry? Probably not if they are real, you are wasting precious time preparing your base for an attack. I didn't just try this build once before posting it here, I've tried it 20 or so times, with huge success or I wouldn't even post it. | ||
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Flyingpants
79 Posts
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Minigun
619 Posts
On February 18 2011 11:38 Flyingpants wrote: Say you are terren, immortals coming at you, you scan his army to know if you need to pull everything to hold, oh, it's hallucinates and a tiny force. Most terrans use watchtowers, why would he need to scan when he saw the entire army? Bring a probe too to make it more convincing. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
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Minigun
619 Posts
On February 18 2011 11:47 Dommk wrote: Wont be making this post, all Terrans who read TL strategy forum actually be suspicious of a 3gate robo attack that doesn't follow through? Probably should have just kept this to yourself Terrans will figure it out eventually. I'm hoping this promotes hallucination play, and people come up with even more uses for it. If I 3 gate robo and don't pull through, I've already lost the game. So it doesn't really matter. | ||
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angra86
United States56 Posts
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pirsq
Australia145 Posts
Also, he doesn't react at all to this obvious sign of a hidden expo, which kinda contradicts the whole "this is a good player who reacts the right way, that's the only reason I can bluff him" thing. | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
On February 18 2011 13:07 pirsq wrote: In your replay, the Terran scans your ramp and sees a huge probe transfer with no nexus in the natural. Obviously that won't usually happen, but it just goes to show how much this build depends on getting lucky. All it takes is one scan, and scanning your army when it's half a screen outisde his base is pretty reasonable. Also, he doesn't react at all to this obvious sign of a hidden expo, which kinda contradicts the whole "this is a good player who reacts the right way, that's the only reason I can bluff him" thing. You can say that with any build really. I said I was short on replays, please read the entire thread. You think I came in here with just trying it once and said this is the best build ever only trying it once? On February 18 2011 13:05 angra86 wrote: Why would you scout with a hallucinated phoenix? If you wanted to fake him into thinking you went 3 gate robo and be on guard, then to me that would be a dead giveaway. It was late enough after to where it didn't matter, I need to scout for tech labs on starports. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
I guess people will just have to scout the other bases more regularly now, especially if the map sizes are going to become standardly bigger than Blizzard's average. However, like some people have mentioned, if they scan you, then they might have figured you out. But then again, a scan doesn't cover the whole base, so they may be scared and think you were trying to hide your tech (like many people try to do). A floating barracks on the other hand... but this usually isn't done unless if they're going mech or if it's mid game at least. Even for mech they need the back up marines no? | ||
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Flyingpants
79 Posts
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SilverJohnny
United States885 Posts
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morimacil
France921 Posts
Most people in this thread seem to be most concerned with the fact that its possible for terran to find out your immortals are fake, through some incredibly unlikely set of events. My question, however, would be: What exactly is the real gain from hiding your expansion at the other end of the map? If you can deny him scouting around the map, you can also deny him scouting your natural usually. I mean, its really cool that you are able to trick your opponents into thinking you went 3gate robo when you didnt, thats sweet. but appart from trading some sentry energy for him making a bunker, and pulling SCVs for a few seconds, what exactly does tricking him achieve here? Like if you were using halucinations to fake having a colossus, and then showing up with templars while he got vikings a couple of minutes later, I could see how that would be good. But with the expand, wouldnt that be tricking him just because you can? I mean, when he sees you take your natural, either he will expand too, thinking he is staying ahead, but in fact staying even. Or he will attack to try and deny it, and then its still 2 bases vs 2 bases, but with him probably having a sligfhtly easier time, due to an earlier expand, and not so much mining time lost during the transfer. | ||
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moonylo
Germany68 Posts
 I didnt read every single post, but I think that no one has mentioned one of the biggest advantages this strategy has and which was so well shown in the GSTL match. Yes Terran can find a timing window in which you are trying to get your 3rd up and make a push that you in lots of cases are not able to defend. But who cares about defence? Let your natural die and FF the ramp and counter-attack. Since its still 2 base vs 2 base you are alright economy wise anyway. And when he really decides to go in for the kill, then he will lose a lot at his base, while you are save behind the FFs. The only thing I can imagine scouting that something is up, is a floating factory. Imagine youre spawning close air or close by ground on LT. If the terran gets up a quite quick factory and scouts your base, he will most likely realize that you have an FE - although I have to admit, that it might be a failure to build a factory that early, facing a real 3 gate + Robo timing attack. Any comments on that? Edith says: Btw, why dont terrans use floating barracks as scouts anyway? (Regardless of their builds). Taking the SCV of mining and building the barracks might cost about 180 (?), maybe 200 minerals, but its still less then a mule would mine and you often get to see way more than with one scan, especially in the early game. | ||
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bigbeau
368 Posts
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confusedcrib
United States1307 Posts
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moonylo
Germany68 Posts
On February 18 2011 16:17 confusedcrib wrote: I think in the OP you might want to stretch the importance that terran will not attack because seeing your 3rd base go down, and thinking it to be a failed all in natural expansion, will believe themselves to be well ahead with no reason to attack. I am curious though as to why you recommend the double forge + templar follow up over a colossus phoenix transition? If I can get a fast 3rd I have a lot of luck going colossus phoenix. And people shouldn't really be expecting terran to engage it, if he does he is completely guessing what you are doing (unlikely) or is just stupid. No good terran would get an expo and then attack into a one basing robo toss There's a couple of reasons. First of you fake a robo build, so chances are he's getting vikings blindly. So as soon as he sees you throwing down your third (expected late first expo) he will attack you very soon. For that time you are behind economically, so if he really has some vikings out you will lose your colossi before you can get a critical mass out to stop this attack - then you retreat to your main and FF the ramp.. until what? The next colossus pops out and gets sniped? When the storm tech is done you have way better chances when he finally comes up the ramp.Second, if the game goes on you have better chances to defend your hidden expo with templars warped in, than walking with your colossi cross the whole map. They are just not mobile enough. | ||
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Deleted User 109835
629 Posts
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MarKeD
Australia183 Posts
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