EPT[G] IMYongHwa Korean 3 Stalker Robo - Page 8
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ktgster
Canada70 Posts
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EMCL
United States71 Posts
Literally just had a high masters protoss come 4 gate me and push with zeal/stalk/probe, dropped the probe/zealot with 3 stalkers and just made 2 sentries. eventually when my first collo came out (had to make immortal first cause he attempted to push up ramp) I got the gg. VERY happy to see this! Some real PvP may happen now! | ||
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Tesla12
Serbia71 Posts
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shannn
Netherlands2891 Posts
Anyways I have seen what it can do. But I haven't read anywhere what it's weak against. Have you faced any strategies that has absolutely crushed this strategy most of the times? Can't really test the strategy but when I do get ingame I'll be doing this first priority to test out lol. | ||
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Caloooomi
Scotland188 Posts
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 13 2011 13:29 CecilSunkure wrote: The Opening Build
Your sentry should finish just as Warpgate tech finishes, and your robo should finish shortly thereafter. Morph both gateways into warpgates, and warp in two zealots. Ideally you'll be up your ramp with three stalkers two zealots and a sentry, with a double chrono immortal about to pop, with the third gateway just finishing. Note: Every single stalker has one chronoboost, the sentry has one chronoboost, and the immortal has two chronoboost. Only two initial chronoboosts are spent on the Nexus. 3 Stalkers This build revolves around your three initial stalkers. These stalkers are what are going to keep you alive against a good 4 gate rush. You use them to kill off the Zealot Stalker and Probe (if you can) and then snipe the proxy pylon. Your goal in using these three stalkers is to force your opponent to proxy their warpin pylon as far away as possible. With good micro it is entirely possible to kill off their stalker, zealot and probe then return to your base. I've been able to win with this build as long as I can get the proxy pylon a good distance away from my base. In order for this build to work you have to be able to be very active with your first three stalkers. I like this--getting 3 quick stalkers is really strong for early map control in PvP, and it can make it very difficult for a 4 gater to get his all-important proxy pylon. It's not a slam dunk that you'll be able to deny the proxy on all maps tho. On a map like LT, you can take keep the watch tower outside your base and you can know 100% that there isn't a proxy nearby. On XNC (commonly considered the best map in the ladder pool), the circular layout of the map along with the backdoor behind the grass allows a greater possibility that he'll sneak a probe somewhere that your stalkers are not. It's quick to warp in a pylon, and you can't be everywhere at once. Obviously, as soon as he warps in his round of stalkers, you'll have lost map control. And with this build, if you don't delay the push, I don't think you'll have enough units in time to hold your ramp. The other concern is that you don't have an early zealot, so on small maps and close positions, your opponent can chrono out a zealot and cause some mayhem in your mineral line. With great probe micro, a zealot can't kill anything, but you'll be surprised how long the zealot will stay alive against a stalker. Just something to be aware of if you're not confident in your ability to pull individual probes away from a zealot in your mineral line. It's not easy. Lastly, why chronoboost after pylon for a 12 gate? The chronoboost is 10 seconds of production, and the sped up production forces you to cut production to get the gateway on 12. If you save that chrono, the 12 gate lines up perfectly with your minerals. I believe using a chrono before a 12 gate menas you've wasted 5-8 of the 10 seconds. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On February 18 2011 03:35 kcdc wrote: Lastly, why chronoboost after pylon for a 12 gate? The chronoboost is 10 seconds of production, and the sped up production forces you to cut production to get the gateway on 12. If you save that chrono, the 12 gate lines up perfectly with your minerals. I believe using a chrono before a 12 gate menas you've wasted 5-8 of the 10 seconds. IIRC YongHwa chronoboosted the same way I did in my replays. Also Day9 said in one of his dailies that he thinks (i.e. doesn't know) that 12 Gateway with this chronoboost scheme is superior to other schemes. The probe cut is particularly tiny, and no chronoboost is wasted. I'm assuming that getting the probe out slightly earlier with a tiny cut allows your earlier probes to return minerals for a greater amount of time, thus out-paying the tiny cut. I don't have time to actually test this out right now, but I would appreciate it if someone did test out openings and minerals mined -perhaps create a new thread once results are created? | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 18 2011 03:50 CecilSunkure wrote: IIRC YongHwa chronoboosted the same way I did in my replays. Also Day9 said in one of his dailies that he thinks (i.e. doesn't know) that 12 Gateway with this chronoboost scheme is superior to other schemes. The probe cut is particularly tiny, and no chronoboost is wasted. I'm assuming that getting the probe out slightly earlier with a tiny cut allows your earlier probes to return minerals for a greater amount of time, thus out-paying the tiny cut. I don't have time to actually test this out right now, but I would appreciate it if someone did test out openings and minerals mined -perhaps create a new thread once results are created? It might be. After a 12 gate, you can only spend 1 chrono on nexus if you want to have enough minerals for your core right when your gate finishes (I believe there's still a tiny production cut with 1 chrono spent), so even if ~6 of the 10 seconds of the chrono at 10 food are wasted, it's not clear that there's a better spot to spend that 25 energy. I am pretty sure that the chrono on 10 for a 12 gate wastes a significant portion of the production boost, but it's possible that it's the least wasteful option. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Interested in finding builds on your own? Don't know exactly how to learn from better players like I did in this post? I just happened to be streaming and recorded the entire creation of this build order! Check it out here: http://bit.ly/gpH3wS | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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zyzski
United States698 Posts
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TheResidentEvil
United States991 Posts
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
On February 18 2011 04:46 Skyro wrote: I'm questioning why you need the 3rd gate if you drop the robo. It seems to me you want to go for that 3rd gate OR the robo, but not both, at least initially as you can hold a 4-gate with 3-gate (more sentries) or with 2-gate robo (more brute force w/ Immortals). Money is very tight already producing out of robo + 2 gates so do you just cut probes completely so you can produce out of these 4 structures? I don't feel it is necessary to cut much probe production after the initial 3 stalkers (at least w/ 3-gate, haven't gotten enough practice w/ this 2-gate robo variant). The Robo is so that you can rapidly transition into 1base Colossus to end the game. That's how I use it. It also prevents the opponent quickly swapping to 4gate blink stalker, if he sees the immortals, especially more than one, he's less likely to do it. the third gate is because 1base colossus doesn't leave enough cash leftover to expand so you might as well use that extra cash to warp in a couple more gateway units. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
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Adonisto
Canada191 Posts
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
Only problem obviously being that you still have to watch for it. | ||
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
Slight probe cut Resume Probe production; Chrono Nexus" I dont understand this part, why would I want to cut probes AFTER my gateway? | ||
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Darksidius
Netherlands52 Posts
 PvP for me atm is either 4gate myself, or lose to a 4gate. I'll try this build out for sure! ty CecilSunkure! (OT: thank you TL too, for highlighting certain posters, now I can easily skip the garbage in between the good posts) | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
On February 18 2011 20:33 Roflhaxx wrote: "12 Gateway Slight probe cut Resume Probe production; Chrono Nexus" I dont understand this part, why would I want to cut probes AFTER my gateway? if you 12 gate you will always have to cut probes for a couple seconds because you just won't have the 50 minerals in time after throwing down the 12 gate. Its a slight tradeoff to get the gateway slightly earlier. | ||
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