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[G] IMYongHwa Korean 3 Stalker Robo - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
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ktgster
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada70 Posts
February 17 2011 05:37 GMT
#141
This build looks solid, but execution and scouting is definitely the key.
"Sick Handsome Nerd Baller"
EMCL
Profile Joined September 2010
United States71 Posts
February 17 2011 10:01 GMT
#142
This works incredibly well if you execute it properly.

Literally just had a high masters protoss come 4 gate me and push with zeal/stalk/probe, dropped the probe/zealot with 3 stalkers and just made 2 sentries. eventually when my first collo came out (had to make immortal first cause he attempted to push up ramp) I got the gg.

VERY happy to see this! Some real PvP may happen now!
Tesla12
Profile Joined December 2010
Serbia71 Posts
February 17 2011 13:08 GMT
#143
Great strat, tnx for this u and artosis!
"Divide et impera"
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
February 17 2011 14:12 GMT
#144
Cecil you just made me play P again :D I hate 4gates xD Will probably lose the first couple of games trying to refine this build and set the priorities. Better to start practicing this in customs then.

Anyways I have seen what it can do. But I haven't read anywhere what it's weak against. Have you faced any strategies that has absolutely crushed this strategy most of the times?

Can't really test the strategy but when I do get ingame I'll be doing this first priority to test out lol.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Caloooomi
Profile Joined July 2010
Scotland188 Posts
February 17 2011 17:15 GMT
#145
Looks like a nice build, will try it on my next PvP )
Booga booga booga~
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
February 17 2011 17:26 GMT
#146
Great build! Hopefully this will change the meta-game on the NA server once enough 4gate players get stuffed by it. Late-game Colossi wars aren't much better, but one step at a time!
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-17 22:00:08
February 17 2011 18:35 GMT
#147
On February 13 2011 13:29 CecilSunkure wrote:
The Opening Build
  • 9 Pylon
  • Scout
  • @100% Pylon Chrono Nexus
  • 12 Gateway
  • Slight probe cut
  • Resume Probe production; Chrono Nexus
  • 14 Assimilator
  • 16 Pylon
  • @100% Gateway Cybernetics Core
  • @75% Cybernetics Core Gateway
  • Slight pause in probe production
  • @100% Cybernetics Core Stalker (Chronoboosted); Warpgate Technology
  • Resume Probe production
  • @75% Stalker Assimilator (Second Assim)
  • @100% Stalker Stalker (Chronoboosted)
  • Once second Gateway finishes chrono a stalker out of it**
  • After your third Stalker is ordered place a Robo as fast as you can followed by a gateway and then a pylon. Directly after this order a Sentry and spend one Chronoboost on it.
  • **In order to get this Stalker out in time you have to have exactly 24/26 supply. If you constantly make probes you'll end up with 25/26 unless your initial scout probe dies. If your first scout probe doesn't die you HAVE to stop probe production (until the next pylon finishes) to get your third stalker out as fast as possible!

Your sentry should finish just as Warpgate tech finishes, and your robo should finish shortly thereafter. Morph both gateways into warpgates, and warp in two zealots. Ideally you'll be up your ramp with three stalkers two zealots and a sentry, with a double chrono immortal about to pop, with the third gateway just finishing.

Note: Every single stalker has one chronoboost, the sentry has one chronoboost, and the immortal has two chronoboost. Only two initial chronoboosts are spent on the Nexus.

3 Stalkers
This build revolves around your three initial stalkers. These stalkers are what are going to keep you alive against a good 4 gate rush. You use them to kill off the Zealot Stalker and Probe (if you can) and then snipe the proxy pylon. Your goal in using these three stalkers is to force your opponent to proxy their warpin pylon as far away as possible. With good micro it is entirely possible to kill off their stalker, zealot and probe then return to your base. I've been able to win with this build as long as I can get the proxy pylon a good distance away from my base.

In order for this build to work you have to be able to be very active with your first three stalkers.




I like this--getting 3 quick stalkers is really strong for early map control in PvP, and it can make it very difficult for a 4 gater to get his all-important proxy pylon. It's not a slam dunk that you'll be able to deny the proxy on all maps tho. On a map like LT, you can take keep the watch tower outside your base and you can know 100% that there isn't a proxy nearby. On XNC (commonly considered the best map in the ladder pool), the circular layout of the map along with the backdoor behind the grass allows a greater possibility that he'll sneak a probe somewhere that your stalkers are not. It's quick to warp in a pylon, and you can't be everywhere at once. Obviously, as soon as he warps in his round of stalkers, you'll have lost map control. And with this build, if you don't delay the push, I don't think you'll have enough units in time to hold your ramp.

The other concern is that you don't have an early zealot, so on small maps and close positions, your opponent can chrono out a zealot and cause some mayhem in your mineral line. With great probe micro, a zealot can't kill anything, but you'll be surprised how long the zealot will stay alive against a stalker. Just something to be aware of if you're not confident in your ability to pull individual probes away from a zealot in your mineral line. It's not easy.

Lastly, why chronoboost after pylon for a 12 gate? The chronoboost is 10 seconds of production, and the sped up production forces you to cut production to get the gateway on 12. If you save that chrono, the 12 gate lines up perfectly with your minerals. I believe using a chrono before a 12 gate menas you've wasted 5-8 of the 10 seconds.
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-17 18:54:45
February 17 2011 18:50 GMT
#148
On February 18 2011 03:35 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2011 13:29 CecilSunkure wrote:
The Opening Build
  • 9 Pylon
  • Scout
  • @100% Pylon Chrono Nexus
  • 12 Gateway
  • Slight probe cut
  • Resume Probe production; Chrono Nexus
  • 14 Assimilator
  • 16 Pylon
  • @100% Gateway Cybernetics Core
  • @75% Cybernetics Core Gateway
  • Slight pause in probe production
  • @100% Cybernetics Core Stalker (Chronoboosted); Warpgate Technology
  • Resume Probe production
  • @75% Stalker Assimilator (Second Assim)
  • @100% Stalker Stalker (Chronoboosted)
  • Once second Gateway finishes chrono a stalker out of it**
  • After your third Stalker is ordered place a Robo as fast as you can followed by a gateway and then a pylon. Directly after this order a Sentry and spend one Chronoboost on it.
  • **In order to get this Stalker out in time you have to have exactly 24/26 supply. If you constantly make probes you'll end up with 25/26 unless your initial scout probe dies. If your first scout probe doesn't die you HAVE to stop probe production (until the next pylon finishes) to get your third stalker out as fast as possible!

Your sentry should finish just as Warpgate tech finishes, and your robo should finish shortly thereafter. Morph both gateways into warpgates, and warp in two zealots. Ideally you'll be up your ramp with three stalkers two zealots and a sentry, with a double chrono immortal about to pop, with the third gateway just finishing.

Note: Every single stalker has one chronoboost, the sentry has one chronoboost, and the immortal has two chronoboost. Only two initial chronoboosts are spent on the Nexus.

3 Stalkers
This build revolves around your three initial stalkers. These stalkers are what are going to keep you alive against a good 4 gate rush. You use them to kill off the Zealot Stalker and Probe (if you can) and then snipe the proxy pylon. Your goal in using these three stalkers is to force your opponent to proxy their warpin pylon as far away as possible. With good micro it is entirely possible to kill off their stalker, zealot and probe then return to your base. I've been able to win with this build as long as I can get the proxy pylon a good distance away from my base.

In order for this build to work you have to be able to be very active with your first three stalkers.


Lastly, why chronoboost after pylon for a 12 gate? The chronoboost is 10 seconds of production, and the sped up production forces you to cut production to get the gateway on 12. If you save that chrono, the 12 gate lines up perfectly with your minerals. I believe using a chrono before a 12 gate menas you've wasted 5-8 of the 10 seconds.

IIRC YongHwa chronoboosted the same way I did in my replays. Also Day9 said in one of his dailies that he thinks (i.e. doesn't know) that 12 Gateway with this chronoboost scheme is superior to other schemes. The probe cut is particularly tiny, and no chronoboost is wasted. I'm assuming that getting the probe out slightly earlier with a tiny cut allows your earlier probes to return minerals for a greater amount of time, thus out-paying the tiny cut. I don't have time to actually test this out right now, but I would appreciate it if someone did test out openings and minerals mined -perhaps create a new thread once results are created?
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
February 17 2011 19:14 GMT
#149
On February 18 2011 03:50 CecilSunkure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 18 2011 03:35 kcdc wrote:
On February 13 2011 13:29 CecilSunkure wrote:
The Opening Build
  • 9 Pylon
  • Scout
  • @100% Pylon Chrono Nexus
  • 12 Gateway
  • Slight probe cut
  • Resume Probe production; Chrono Nexus
  • 14 Assimilator
  • 16 Pylon
  • @100% Gateway Cybernetics Core
  • @75% Cybernetics Core Gateway
  • Slight pause in probe production
  • @100% Cybernetics Core Stalker (Chronoboosted); Warpgate Technology
  • Resume Probe production
  • @75% Stalker Assimilator (Second Assim)
  • @100% Stalker Stalker (Chronoboosted)
  • Once second Gateway finishes chrono a stalker out of it**
  • After your third Stalker is ordered place a Robo as fast as you can followed by a gateway and then a pylon. Directly after this order a Sentry and spend one Chronoboost on it.
  • **In order to get this Stalker out in time you have to have exactly 24/26 supply. If you constantly make probes you'll end up with 25/26 unless your initial scout probe dies. If your first scout probe doesn't die you HAVE to stop probe production (until the next pylon finishes) to get your third stalker out as fast as possible!

Your sentry should finish just as Warpgate tech finishes, and your robo should finish shortly thereafter. Morph both gateways into warpgates, and warp in two zealots. Ideally you'll be up your ramp with three stalkers two zealots and a sentry, with a double chrono immortal about to pop, with the third gateway just finishing.

Note: Every single stalker has one chronoboost, the sentry has one chronoboost, and the immortal has two chronoboost. Only two initial chronoboosts are spent on the Nexus.

3 Stalkers
This build revolves around your three initial stalkers. These stalkers are what are going to keep you alive against a good 4 gate rush. You use them to kill off the Zealot Stalker and Probe (if you can) and then snipe the proxy pylon. Your goal in using these three stalkers is to force your opponent to proxy their warpin pylon as far away as possible. With good micro it is entirely possible to kill off their stalker, zealot and probe then return to your base. I've been able to win with this build as long as I can get the proxy pylon a good distance away from my base.

In order for this build to work you have to be able to be very active with your first three stalkers.


Lastly, why chronoboost after pylon for a 12 gate? The chronoboost is 10 seconds of production, and the sped up production forces you to cut production to get the gateway on 12. If you save that chrono, the 12 gate lines up perfectly with your minerals. I believe using a chrono before a 12 gate menas you've wasted 5-8 of the 10 seconds.


IIRC YongHwa chronoboosted the same way I did in my replays. Also Day9 said in one of his dailies that he thinks (i.e. doesn't know) that 12 Gateway with this chronoboost scheme is superior to other schemes. The probe cut is particularly tiny, and no chronoboost is wasted. I'm assuming that getting the probe out slightly earlier with a tiny cut allows your earlier probes to return minerals for a greater amount of time, thus out-paying the tiny cut. I don't have time to actually test this out right now, but I would appreciate it if someone did test out openings and minerals mined -perhaps create a new thread once results are created?


It might be. After a 12 gate, you can only spend 1 chrono on nexus if you want to have enough minerals for your core right when your gate finishes (I believe there's still a tiny production cut with 1 chrono spent), so even if ~6 of the 10 seconds of the chrono at 10 food are wasted, it's not clear that there's a better spot to spend that 25 energy. I am pretty sure that the chrono on 10 for a 12 gate wastes a significant portion of the production boost, but it's possible that it's the least wasteful option.
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
February 17 2011 19:22 GMT
#150
Updated OP and added a livestream link. I know some people were curious as to how to derive build orders from VODs like I did in this thread.
+ Show Spoiler +
Interested in finding builds on your own? Don't know exactly how to learn from better players like I did in this post? I just happened to be streaming and recorded the entire creation of this build order! Check it out here: http://bit.ly/gpH3wS
Skyro
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1823 Posts
February 17 2011 19:46 GMT
#151
I'm questioning why you need the 3rd gate if you drop the robo. It seems to me you want to go for that 3rd gate OR the robo, but not both, at least initially as you can hold a 4-gate with 3-gate (more sentries) or with 2-gate robo (more brute force w/ Immortals). Money is very tight already producing out of robo + 2 gates so do you just cut probes completely so you can produce out of these 4 structures? I don't feel it is necessary to cut much probe production after the initial 3 stalkers (at least w/ 3-gate, haven't gotten enough practice w/ this 2-gate robo variant).
zyzski
Profile Joined May 2010
United States698 Posts
February 17 2011 20:54 GMT
#152
everyone does this now
TYBG
TheResidentEvil
Profile Joined September 2010
United States991 Posts
February 17 2011 21:51 GMT
#153
thanks for this. my pvp has been crap lately.
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
February 17 2011 22:32 GMT
#154
On February 18 2011 04:46 Skyro wrote:
I'm questioning why you need the 3rd gate if you drop the robo. It seems to me you want to go for that 3rd gate OR the robo, but not both, at least initially as you can hold a 4-gate with 3-gate (more sentries) or with 2-gate robo (more brute force w/ Immortals). Money is very tight already producing out of robo + 2 gates so do you just cut probes completely so you can produce out of these 4 structures? I don't feel it is necessary to cut much probe production after the initial 3 stalkers (at least w/ 3-gate, haven't gotten enough practice w/ this 2-gate robo variant).


The Robo is so that you can rapidly transition into 1base Colossus to end the game. That's how I use it. It also prevents the opponent quickly swapping to 4gate blink stalker, if he sees the immortals, especially more than one, he's less likely to do it.

the third gate is because 1base colossus doesn't leave enough cash leftover to expand so you might as well use that extra cash to warp in a couple more gateway units.
Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
February 17 2011 23:55 GMT
#155
New liquipedia page has been added! http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Korean_3_Stalker_Robo
Adonisto
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada191 Posts
February 18 2011 01:28 GMT
#156
Damn, now less people will try to 4 gate me, unfortunate. I've been doing this exact build for a month now, I never loss to 4 gate since then, it's the safest opening in PvP, in my opinion.
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
February 18 2011 04:45 GMT
#157
Yeah I'm already noticing less 4gates in PvP.

Only problem obviously being that you still have to watch for it.
Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
Roflhaxx
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1244 Posts
February 18 2011 11:33 GMT
#158
"12 Gateway
Slight probe cut
Resume Probe production; Chrono Nexus"
I dont understand this part, why would I want to cut probes AFTER my gateway?
A game where the first thing you do is scout with a “worker”. Does that make any sense? Who scouts with a “worker”? That’s like sending out the janitor to perform recon, what general would do that? Retarded game.
Darksidius
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands52 Posts
February 18 2011 13:28 GMT
#159
This almost sounds too good to be true
PvP for me atm is either 4gate myself, or lose to a 4gate. I'll try this build out for sure!

ty CecilSunkure!

(OT: thank you TL too, for highlighting certain posters, now I can easily skip the garbage in between the good posts)
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Dhalphir
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1305 Posts
February 18 2011 14:17 GMT
#160
On February 18 2011 20:33 Roflhaxx wrote:
"12 Gateway
Slight probe cut
Resume Probe production; Chrono Nexus"
I dont understand this part, why would I want to cut probes AFTER my gateway?


if you 12 gate you will always have to cut probes for a couple seconds because you just won't have the 50 minerals in time after throwing down the 12 gate.

Its a slight tradeoff to get the gateway slightly earlier.

Supporting TypeII Gaming - www.typeii.net - TypeReaL, TypePhoeNix, TypeSuN, TypeDBS!!
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