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TvP – A Terran’s view - Page 31

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-29 19:34:33
December 29 2010 19:32 GMT
#601
On December 30 2010 04:30 Rowa wrote:
Sjow actually said tvp is protoss favored too...


OMG....

(this is to be read in a mocking voice)
Raiznhell
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada786 Posts
December 29 2010 19:32 GMT
#602
On December 30 2010 04:27 travis wrote:
jesus people, stop complaining about warpins so much. maybe actually kill pylons that are around the map? like duh? i see way too many complaints about warpins -.-


lol well to be fair to them travis do you know how hard it is to find every single pylon around the map especially on maps like shakuras and metal. There's just so many sneaky places to hide pylons.

While I don't admire all the Terran whining I think what you said is kinda dumb the ability to warp in units anywhere on the map instantly regardless of balance is such a strong ability I'd be surprised if nobody complained about it.
Cake or Death?
Johnranger-123
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United Kingdom341 Posts
December 29 2010 19:33 GMT
#603
Has anyone tried going 3 starport banshee's after they get their third for a while?
If you get cloack as well(or emp the banshee's) it can work really well I think, I dont have any replays as most of my tvp's dont get into the late game but when I do I always do that and it works quite well imo ^^
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-29 19:38:39
December 29 2010 19:36 GMT
#604
On December 30 2010 04:32 Raiznhell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2010 04:27 travis wrote:
jesus people, stop complaining about warpins so much. maybe actually kill pylons that are around the map? like duh? i see way too many complaints about warpins -.-


lol well to be fair to them travis do you know how hard it is to find every single pylon around the map especially on maps like shakuras and metal. There's just so many sneaky places to hide pylons.


not THAT hard, the people complaining about it just aren't very good

do you know how hard it is to kill a planetary fortress? hurp durp durp
scvs auto repairing allins with mules to boost economy hurp durp durp


hey look an ability that defines the protoss race in sc2, lets all whine about it over and over even though it's completely possible to deal with it by playing better


honestly, i wouldn't mock people if they were actually discussing strategy rather than just coming in and saying [X IS TOO GOOD]
Raiznhell
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada786 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-29 21:06:39
December 29 2010 21:03 GMT
#605
On December 30 2010 04:36 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2010 04:32 Raiznhell wrote:
On December 30 2010 04:27 travis wrote:
jesus people, stop complaining about warpins so much. maybe actually kill pylons that are around the map? like duh? i see way too many complaints about warpins -.-


lol well to be fair to them travis do you know how hard it is to find every single pylon around the map especially on maps like shakuras and metal. There's just so many sneaky places to hide pylons.


not THAT hard, the people complaining about it just aren't very good

do you know how hard it is to kill a planetary fortress? hurp durp durp
scvs auto repairing allins with mules to boost economy hurp durp durp


hey look an ability that defines the protoss race in sc2, lets all whine about it over and over even though it's completely possible to deal with it by playing better


honestly, i wouldn't mock people if they were actually discussing strategy rather than just coming in and saying [X IS TOO GOOD]


Well to defend the whiny Terrans a bit the thing is Terran macro aside from being simpler with MBS is pretty much the same as BW. We have the Mule but that money boost a lot of the times only helps us to compete with the macro boosts of the other races. Zerg now have an extra 4 larva with the queen and protoss has chrono boost (Which is available from the very beginning unlike terrans and zergs macro boosts). The warp-in on top of the Chrono boost is difficult to handle as a simple 100 mineral investment in a pylon automatically creates somewhat of a beach-head right outside your base and then they put them all over the map.

When playing against Terran and Zerg you only have to scout expansions and army position and tech. against protoss you have to scout the above PLUS every single inch of the map for pylons?

I don't think it's imbalance but i think this is where everyone here is coming from on their hatred of warp-in.
Cake or Death?
gcoin
Profile Joined November 2010
United States89 Posts
December 29 2010 21:04 GMT
#606
in summary

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/121637-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns
Terran for Life. Never compromise Not even in the face of Armageddon
Vari
Profile Joined September 2010
United States532 Posts
December 29 2010 21:14 GMT
#607
they can't warp in an entire army, you know. if they aren't in your base the worst you have to worry about is a small counter attack

which is a time when not having warp in is actually nice because you'll probably have a handful of units in or near your base no matter where your army is at.

so no you don't need to search for every pylon, just in and around your base and when you take an expo.
Stroke Me Lady Fame
n3mo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States298 Posts
December 29 2010 23:22 GMT
#608
On December 30 2010 04:27 travis wrote:
jesus people, stop complaining about warpins so much. maybe actually kill pylons that are around the map? like duh? i see way too many complaints about warpins -.-


the complaint about warp-in is that you can have a storm and/or feedback, and likely many of them, at any point in your bases within 5 seconds. when defending drops (which is what any terran will be trying to do to get an economic advantage), there is no longer such thing as "being out of position".
My hatred for [banelings] is way greater than my compassion
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-29 23:31:36
December 29 2010 23:30 GMT
#609
On December 30 2010 08:22 n3mo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2010 04:27 travis wrote:
jesus people, stop complaining about warpins so much. maybe actually kill pylons that are around the map? like duh? i see way too many complaints about warpins -.-


the complaint about warp-in is that you can have a storm and/or feedback, and likely many of them, at any point in your bases within 5 seconds. when defending drops (which is what any terran will be trying to do to get an economic advantage), there is no longer such thing as "being out of position".


so what?

even 2 templars still won't instantly stop a drop, u need more than that

if P wants to play the complaining game then they can say "well terran can just put up a sensor tower and they know u are dropping before u even freaking get there".

yes, amulet warpins are very good. yes, they make terran drops easier to stop (THANK GOD....)

but a lot of terrans need to learn to control their armies better late game, i watch huk's stream and i've seen him lose on even economic footing with amulet storm simply because his opponent had awesome control(albeit i haven't seen this often... but i don't often even see huk get storm, he seems to go collossus much more)

spread your units out, use emps, stutter micro with marauders

im not saying it's easy but there's a lot of attacks terran can do that is ridiculously hard to fight off as well
Crashburn
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States476 Posts
December 30 2010 00:03 GMT
#610
Protoss get to warp in because otherwise they are incredibly immobile. Ever try to defend against mutas with stalkers? Watching them go in single file through your buildings while you lose 30 probes is one of the saddest things to see in Starcraft 2.

Oh, what's that? They're attacking my third? Let me grab my zealots, immortals, colossi, and high templars. I'll be there in... *checks watch* ... about an hour. And unlike terran, our bases don't defend themselves for a low, low cost.

Every race has some advantage over other races for which they trade off with disadvantages.
dcberkeley
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada844 Posts
December 30 2010 00:12 GMT
#611
On December 30 2010 06:04 gcoin wrote:
in summary

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/121637-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns

That was a waste of time. Don't post garbage.
Moktira is da bomb
frumpylumps
Profile Joined September 2010
61 Posts
December 30 2010 02:08 GMT
#612
Blizz agrees TvP is imbalanced in favor of protoss and they are looking at it despite Travis's post count and obvious bias.

Resistentialism
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada688 Posts
December 30 2010 02:20 GMT
#613
That video is really old in starcraft 2 terms, you understand that, right? Back from around when gsl 2 was a few rounds in and all the protoss were eliminated...
Blyadischa
Profile Joined April 2010
419 Posts
December 30 2010 02:27 GMT
#614
On December 30 2010 03:24 Resistentialism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2010 03:11 Blyadischa wrote:
On December 30 2010 02:06 ensis wrote:
On December 30 2010 01:18 dust7 wrote:
so, no one here acknowledging that blizzard already said P>T in lategame because of storms?


maybe, and this is just anothter possible answer, the reason why protoss wins the lategame, is because terran always is at a disadvantage reaching the endstage, because they went for some midgame attack.


[image loading]

I'm red, opponent is blue. That is the army value chart.

See that huge advantage I have going into late game?

See how I've had that advantage the whole game?

Yeah, that arrow points to storms, not even good ones, I was even playing bio/mech and all he had to do was just storm more when I dodged a storm, and storm more on my mech to kill it.



Notice how you and your opponent's lines stay parallel after your big army build up around 800 - always about the same distance from each other. If you are both macroing, but you are pumping army and he's teching, you need to do more damage so that your advantage keeps growing. If your opponent is playing defensively and getting higher tech, you're losing advantage by just staying equal in army size with them.



1. I'm not staying equal in army size with him, I have 35% more food than him.
2. By saying I need to stop him from getting tech, and not seeing that HE WON THE BATTLE NOT BECAUSE OF GOOD PLAY, ARMY SIZE, OR WHATEVER, BUT ONLY STORM, you're admitting that storm is imbalanced.
frumpylumps
Profile Joined September 2010
61 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-30 02:30:56
December 30 2010 02:29 GMT
#615
On December 30 2010 11:20 Resistentialism wrote:
That video is really old in starcraft 2 terms, you understand that, right? Back from around when gsl 2 was a few rounds in and all the protoss were eliminated...


so you attempt to invalidate it based off the fact that it is older yet current to the current patch and also point to older GSL season2 results where protoss played badly while ignoring GSL season 3 results?

pretty retarded


Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
December 30 2010 02:38 GMT
#616
Oh my god. This thread is a repeat of the billion and a half broodwar threads that popped up with the same title. And that game was balanced.

Just because you get free wins against zerg doesnt mean it needs to be as easy against protoss.

Besides, I watched a game by qxc the other day where the protoss had 10 templar, and qxc had about 10 ghosts. The toss got 1 storm off. By a templar who was warped in late. After his army had been decimated. qxc hit every other templar with an emp, and rofflestomped the battle.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-30 02:50:15
December 30 2010 02:45 GMT
#617
On December 30 2010 11:38 Two_DoWn wrote:
Oh my god. This thread is a repeat of the billion and a half broodwar threads that popped up with the same title. And that game was balanced.

Just because you get free wins against zerg doesnt mean it needs to be as easy against protoss.

Besides, I watched a game by qxc the other day where the protoss had 10 templar, and qxc had about 10 ghosts. The toss got 1 storm off. By a templar who was warped in late. After his army had been decimated. qxc hit every other templar with an emp, and rofflestomped the battle.


Did you also watch the games (QXC's stream 2 days ago) where QXC lost to Mini 0-3 because QXC tried to play a macro game but was decimated by HT and carriers?

Same story against ppgBubbles (my teamate in All4One Gaming). QXC loses 3 times in macro games (carriers and HT again) then proceeds to win twice with marine/scv all-ins.

This is QXC, whom most people consider to be the best Terran in NA.

Yay for terran late game.
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
LHUCKS1
Profile Joined November 2010
United States43 Posts
December 30 2010 02:58 GMT
#618
T v P late game is broke...you need to rush MMM/viking in the 9-12 window or you don't have a chance against a conservative Protoss strategy.
Blyadischa
Profile Joined April 2010
419 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-30 02:59:11
December 30 2010 02:58 GMT
#619
On December 30 2010 11:20 Resistentialism wrote:
That video is really old in starcraft 2 terms, you understand that, right? Back from around when gsl 2 was a few rounds in and all the protoss were eliminated...


Yeah, even when protoss were losing in GSL, Blizzard said TvP was protoss favored. I see the point you're trying to make there..
metalsonic
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands95 Posts
December 30 2010 03:05 GMT
#620
Ghosts are really effective vs HT that and the HT is the most immobile unit after the tank in the entire game . You only need 5 units and scout with scans . You need the following units : Marine Marauder Medivac Vikings and Ghost . You need to add vikings and ghosts based on the number of collosus u see and the numer of HT and remember nothing can kill u on the high ground in LT try to search for spots with a ramp when fighting protoss . Protoss can never never win when ur fighting with a decent army in ur base especially with the planetary fortress . You can micro out of storms and only take about 20 damage with ur units with practice making HT useless ( unless ur on a suck spot on the map , but just split to avoid damage and use ghosts EMP's ) . Terran is clearly favored since ghosts are more mobile then HT and do more damage overall then HT can .
The 100 shields drained is ridiculles and cancels any immortal play , carriers are a joke since vikings can kite them endlessly if the terran ever faced the expensive 120 second build time fat useless things .

Carrier and Battlecruiser are the worst unit by far . Mothership is also really bad but atleast u can do a cheese strategy with it . ( u can't with other units ) .
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