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On February 20 2011 11:43 Tenspeed wrote:
Hey man, really appreciate all the effort you put into this build/thread! Have been stuck in mid-diamond for a while due now to my beyond crappy TvP and was really astonished when I first tried out your build. I'd been thinking no one would lemme get away with the FE and then just watch while the banshees go to town but I'll be damned, more often than not it actually works out=) Guess I can't vouch for the competence of my opponents but hey, they probably wouldn't vouch for mine either..
Not a problem whatsoever  I love contributing to TL. I kind of get this high when I write a guide out. It's so enjoyable and I love hearing people's opinions and seeing what effects it might have on the metagame. If you have any issues with the build, or lost and don't know why, post a replay or two and I can analyze it and point out any glaring issues. Good luck!
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It is nice to see that more and more players are realizing the potential of the banshee as a standard unit that can be massed and incorporated into an army. I don't do this build but a very macro focused bio into tank/marine/ghost core to play very defensively, but I also produce banshee's out of two ports with this build and mass them up which solves my lack of mobility.
10 banshee's are amazing at flying around the map like they are mutalisks, picking off anything that is built too close to a ledge and sniping newly planted expansions. Not only does it force phoenix or stalkers which is gas that goes into stuff that I don't mind dealing with but I keep my banshees alive all game, running them away before they take any hits, then as soon as a major battle happens I just bring my banshees in with my main army.
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I don't really understand how to set builds, and I haven't used YABOT in a while, but would someone who can nail this build get it set into YABOT somehow lol? It would be sweet to have something to measure against as I try to practice the hell out of it.
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On February 20 2011 12:02 VanGarde wrote:
It is nice to see that more and more players are realizing the potential of the banshee as a standard unit that can be massed and incorporated into an army. I don't do this build but a very macro focused bio into tank/marine/ghost core to play very defensively, but I also produce banshee's out of two ports with this build and mass them up which solves my lack of mobility.
10 banshee's are amazing at flying around the map like they are mutalisks, picking off anything that is built too close to a ledge and sniping newly planted expansions. Not only does it force phoenix or stalkers which is gas that goes into stuff that I don't mind dealing with but I keep my banshees alive all game, running them away before they take any hits, then as soon as a major battle happens I just bring my banshees in with my main army.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe air is the best way to deal with Protoss mid-late game. It's so sturdy against anything Protoss can throw at it, and you don't have to deal with the crazy AoE and ground melting armies that Protoss get late game. Once you get Yamato with upgraded BCs, you are nearly impossible to stop. VRs are the only real answer to them at that point, but Yamato 1 shots them, problem solved!
On February 20 2011 12:28 Ilfirin wrote:
I don't really understand how to set builds, and I haven't used YABOT in a while, but would someone who can nail this build get it set into YABOT somehow lol? It would be sweet to have something to measure against as I try to practice the hell out of it.
I think I'd fit that niche of someone who knows how to do this build I'll run it over YABOT and upload it ASAP!
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I just watched the GiantBomb finals. That was pretty slick I gotta try the mass BC first build
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On February 20 2011 23:41 Antisocialmunky wrote:I just watched the GiantBomb finals. That was pretty slick I gotta try the mass BC first build
Hehe ^.-
That was in response to scouting Phoenix with my first banshee that I went to harass with. Phoenix don't do well against BC, so if you grab a couple first and then push/expand, your push is a little heftier since you mitigate the threat to your banshees because the AI of the phoenix will target the BCs instead because of the threat priorities.
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On February 21 2011 02:47 Synystyr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 23:41 Antisocialmunky wrote:I just watched the GiantBomb finals. That was pretty slick I gotta try the mass BC first build Hehe ^.- That was in response to scouting Phoenix with my first banshee that I went to harass with. Phoenix don't do well against BC, so if you grab a couple first and then push/expand, your push is a little heftier since you mitigate the threat to your banshees because the AI of the phoenix will target the BCs instead because of the threat priorities.
That's interesting. I wonder if it is a good general purpose thing to do. I floated the idea of making 2/3 BCs and then nothing but banshees because the BCs tank everything and the Banshees provide the ridiculous DPS.
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Have you tried your build against a protoss who gets both void rays and colossus in his army off two base?
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On February 21 2011 18:39 FinestHour wrote:
Have you tried your build against a protoss who gets both void rays and colossus in his army off two base?
I have, and I don't believe it is as scary as Phoenix/Colossus honestly. It's easy to get off guard by a composition like this because the marines get melted by the colossi and your AA becomes scarce.
You need to scout your opponent well before pushing. A timing scan and a banshee to harass and scout at the same time has always been sufficient for me. You can get a couple rounds of Vikings if you scout Void Rays, or if you scout Phoenix, you go for Battlecruisers with Yamato.
Going BC straight after scouting Void Rays is silly because the VRs will melt the BCs, while the Colossi will take all your AA out. With Vikings, you can preemptively snipe those units and then push with your scary Banshee force.
Against Phoenix, the BCs will tank incredible amounts of damage and force the AI of the Phoenix to attack the BCs rather than the Banshees. You grab Yamato early for the eventual Void Ray response so that you can 1 shot the suckers when they pop.
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this build is amazing, it works against everything ive played, yet to lose with it mid level diamond. thanks so much!
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nice post, learned a lot, thanks.
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On February 22 2011 13:12 Jayzo wrote:
this build is amazing, it works against everything ive played, yet to lose with it mid level diamond. thanks so much!
On February 23 2011 09:31 cpthk wrote:
nice post, learned a lot, thanks.
No problem guys
I wonder how Korea would react to a build like this. I don't think I've ever seen Banshee heavy play from Korean progamers before and wonder if it would work at that level, or if they've even considered it yet.
It was a revelation today with the Hyperdub vs MVP game where it definitely seemed like the Hellion + Air composition was something that had never been seen before. I'm sure we'll be seeing much more of that soon....wish I could get this build transcribed over to the Korean side somehow xD.
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On February 21 2011 18:39 FinestHour wrote:
Have you tried your build against a protoss who gets both void rays and colossus in his army off two base?
I encountered this and honestly it was the easiest composition. VR's don't really do too much damage to your banshee flock so all I did was dart in with my Banshee, kill the Colossus, then move in with my marines.
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Canada13430 Posts
i faced this today but to be honest it wasnt that big a deal. I used an observer to scout out 4 port banshee and I decided to make a lot of observers and double stargate a small pheonix army. Sure the thors hurt my phoenixes but after sniping the raven I was going to town on his army and my pheonixes survived long enough to completely destroy the huge banshee numbers the opponent Terran had.
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On February 23 2011 10:55 ZeromuS wrote:
i faced this today but to be honest it wasnt that big a deal. I used an observer to scout out 4 port banshee and I decided to make a lot of observers and double stargate a small pheonix army. Sure the thors hurt my phoenixes but after sniping the raven I was going to town on his army and my pheonixes survived long enough to completely destroy the huge banshee numbers the opponent Terran had.
Not that I don't believe you, but I would really really like to see the replay of this if you have it available. If you indeed did crush it like you said, I'd like to analyze to see how it happened and see what can be improved or if it was just poor execution on the Terran's end. Thanks!!
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Without watching the replays, I can already tell you your problem.
Metalopolis and Xel'naga Caverns.
Any map that has an open natural, such as these two maps, cannot be defended safely from 4 Gate with bunkers. Instead, you need to open a little differently to get your expansion up safely. I prefer to do a 2 Rax Stim expand instead. This gives you a mobile defense unit that you can use to take the 4 Gate out. Stim makes it really easy to.
Here's a good layout of how you would want to stim expand:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191771
I know the guide says TvT, but that opener works just as well against Protoss. From there on, you can transition into Banshees.
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Without watching the replays, I can already tell you your problem. Metalopolis and Xel'naga Caverns. Any map that has an open natural, such as these two maps, cannot be defended safely from 4 Gate with bunkers. Instead, you need to open a little differently to get your expansion up safely. I prefer to do a 2 Rax Stim expand instead. This gives you a mobile defense unit that you can use to take the 4 Gate out. Stim makes it really easy to. Here's a good layout of how you would want to stim expand: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191771I know the guide says TvT, but that opener works just as well against Protoss. From there on, you can transition into Banshees.
Cool! Thanks for the tip! Goin to try this out in some games ASAP!
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On February 25 2011 07:40 Limpo wrote:Show nested quote +Without watching the replays, I can already tell you your problem. Metalopolis and Xel'naga Caverns. Any map that has an open natural, such as these two maps, cannot be defended safely from 4 Gate with bunkers. Instead, you need to open a little differently to get your expansion up safely. I prefer to do a 2 Rax Stim expand instead. This gives you a mobile defense unit that you can use to take the 4 Gate out. Stim makes it really easy to. Here's a good layout of how you would want to stim expand: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191771I know the guide says TvT, but that opener works just as well against Protoss. From there on, you can transition into Banshees. Cool! Thanks for the tip! Goin to try this out in some games ASAP!
Yep! If you run into any more problems, feel free to post any additional replays!
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EPT
