EPTI tried combating this build with a high sentry build MC style push but you must hit before that first thor comes out, else your gateway units will be destroyed. I would definitely experiment more with templar builds to combat this.
[G] Synystyr's TvP Anti Colossus Build - Page 17
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FoBuLouS
United States570 Posts
I tried combating this build with a high sentry build MC style push but you must hit before that first thor comes out, else your gateway units will be destroyed. I would definitely experiment more with templar builds to combat this. | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On February 25 2011 07:58 FoBuLouS wrote: Well I can definitely vouch for the strength of this build because I've played against the poster and he really demolished me. One thing to note for this build as a Protoss player, this build is designed to look like a 111 raven PDD rush and if you're tricked into believing that, you might make immortals and zealots which are completely useless against this strategy. So correct scouting is definitely needed to know that this push is even coming. I tried combating this build with a high sentry build MC style push but you must hit before that first thor comes out, else your gateway units will be destroyed. I would definitely experiment more with templar builds to combat this. Those forcefields were soooo gosu. I wish I saved the replay...you don't happen to still have it? What I noticed here was that since you had such a high sentry count, the DPS of your Gateway ball was just too low to break through the bunkers before your units were shot down. The Thor really helped, but I felt like I would have been just fine otherwise. That game was the ideal situation for me however. You scouted Thor/Raven/Marine, and responded appropriately with Chargelot/Immortal, which was exactly what I wanted. If you have the replay, could you send it? It was a good game  | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13430 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:10 Synystyr wrote: Not that I don't believe you, but I would really really like to see the replay of this if you have it available. If you indeed did crush it like you said, I'd like to analyze to see how it happened and see what can be improved or if it was just poor execution on the Terran's end. Thanks!! I've got it saved at home. It might have been his execution or it might have been the fact I didn't get the collossus out since i was using my gas on the double stargate pheonixes that showed up just in time. The only problem I see with this build is the fact that it is really tech heavy and that the gas off 2 bases really limits the numbers of units you can have along with the cost of the tech units in general and the investment in the unit producing structures. This being said if I had collossus and no pheonix I would have died no question I just feel that this build kind of relies on a blind counter and hopes that you don't your build scouted. Im 2.9k Diamond btw and the game was on LT cross positions if you were wondering. | ||
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FoBuLouS
United States570 Posts
 But one thing is for sure, proper scouting is definitely needed to beat your build. | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On February 25 2011 08:29 ZeromuS wrote: I've got it saved at home. It might have been his execution or it might have been the fact I didn't get the collossus out since i was using my gas on the double stargate pheonixes that showed up just in time. The only problem I see with this build is the fact that it is really tech heavy and that the gas off 2 bases really limits the numbers of units you can have along with the cost of the tech units in general and the investment in the unit producing structures. This being said if I had collossus and no pheonix I would have died no question I just feel that this build kind of relies on a blind counter and hopes that you don't your build scouted. Im 2.9k Diamond btw and the game was on LT cross positions if you were wondering. Sounds pretty good. I'd still love to take a look at it if you have a chance to post it up here Yeah, gas is a really limiting factor with this build, but you could say that about any build. Every build, once scouted, can be dealt with. Like if I just went MMMVG, you could easily scout that and get colossi. If I get scouted, I can still win the game regardless. It doesn't rely on blind luck but it does add a lot of potency to the build if it goes unscouted.On February 25 2011 08:32 FoBuLouS wrote: Nope don't have the replay anymore But one thing is for sure, proper scouting is definitely needed to beat your build. Damn....oh well. We can always just play some more then ^^. I'm sure you'd try to do a sentry bust again before the thor timing anyways  | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
I've added new information on how to properly engage another Protoss army using this army composition. I've also added a second opener with this build, as with the new map pool, naturals are too wide open and bunkers do not sufficiently protect you. I laid out the build order and also analyzed it in depth. Hope you guys enjoy it ^_^ | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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xbankx
703 Posts
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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On March 01 2011 04:45 Tenks wrote: Thanks for the update. I've been getting wrecked lately on the new maps. No idea why Blizzard hates easy to defend naturals You're telling me I can understand maps like Metal or Xel'naga, where it's possible to defend still, but Backwater Gulch is terrible...I mean come on >_<On March 01 2011 04:50 xbankx wrote: I had a lot of trouble against this build in the past as a toss player. Then I realized mass zealot+colo+2 starport pheonix with obs speed hard counters this build until it transitions to bcs. It is still a very good build every low level terran should try it, if toss doesnt see it coming its gg. In the current metagame, this build still has a lot of the "surprise" factor to it. However, it definitely doesn't rely on that. If you scout your opponent going fast Phoenix, a quick transition into BCs can really catch the Protoss off guard, as Phoenix are awful against them. Zealot + Colo does eat up marines, but your banshees will clean up the entire ground army, and that is no small investment for Protoss. This is actually what you want to happen. On March 01 2011 05:58 vahgar.r24 wrote: Guys any reps on the new maps with the new BO..would love to see them! I don't have any that are played on the new maps, however there are still a couple replays in the Replays tab that show how you would execute Build Order 2. See if that helps at all | ||
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gondolin
France332 Posts
) I just have a question concerning your build order #1:when you start the factory -> tech lab -> tech lab + armory, you only have 13 marines, 3 bunkers and a raven (but not enough energy for PDD) before the first thor is built. It seems pretty fine when the toss expands, but do you still use this build if you see the toss stay on one base? Granted, 4 gates hits right when you have your thirteen marines, but I was wondering about more delayed one base push from toss, do you try to get a faster thor (delaying the raven by not swapping factory and starport) or don't halt marine production when you scout that toss is staying on one base? | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On March 06 2011 06:51 gondolin wrote: Thanks a lot for the guide, it helps me a lot in TvP when I offrace as T (my main race is Z, but I have easier time against P as T than Z thanks to your guide ) I just have a question concerning your build order #1:when you start the factory -> tech lab -> tech lab + armory, you only have 13 marines, 3 bunkers and a raven (but not enough energy for PDD) before the first thor is built. It seems pretty fine when the toss expands, but do you still use this build if you see the toss stay on one base? Granted, 4 gates hits right when you have your thirteen marines, but I was wondering about more delayed one base push from toss, do you try to get a faster thor (delaying the raven by not swapping factory and starport) or don't halt marine production when you scout that toss is staying on one base? Not a problem! I'm glad you like it :-) Yes, I still on the same build even if the Toss 1 bases for a very extended period of time. Actually, there is no delay with the Thor or Raven at all because I instantly go armory+starport after factory, and I am able to get two tech labs up in the time it takes for the armory to build. In a perfect situation, you are able to start the Thor and Raven at the same time, and they will both finish at the same time. If you're really worried, you can go banshee before Raven, which coupled with mass repair on the Thor, bunkers and banshee, it should be more than enough to hold the push. | ||
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Vanchen
55 Posts
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On March 06 2011 10:24 Vanchen wrote: This build is super good. The only time I lose when I'm doing this build is when they go 3 gate robo early push with sentries and FF behind my bunkers so I can't repair. Yeah 3 Gate Robo Immortal bust with Sentries to FF your bunkers is the absolute toughest scenario to defend against. I'm not sure what the best way to defend against it is, but I suspect a Banshee before Raven if you scout it would deal with it very well. Also scouting the push before it hits will allow you to get SCVs ready to repair a little before the FFs go down. It's tough to handle, that's for sure. | ||
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flexy
United States182 Posts
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On March 07 2011 10:36 flexy wrote: Any new replays on the wide open maps? Not as of yet...I haven't really gotten around to laddering, I have a bunch on Metal though which is pretty much the same idea. I know there are already a couple replays in the Replays tab that are almost dead similar for the opening however. They may be a tiny bit old, but it should cover for now until I can get more replays. | ||
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BONE
United States176 Posts
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On March 08 2011 01:00 BONE wrote: I've been mixing this strat with an early Blue flame Hellion drop. What you do is expo as your drop him. It’s a later expo but my idea behind it is put your opponent behind and then build up the tech tree to this because it’s a very strong unit mix for mid/late game. I’ll see if I can get a replay of it tonight. I like it. Early econ damage that lets you take an expansion relatively safely. I might actually use iEchoic's 1-1-2 opener and expand behind that...it makes it really easy to transition into mass air play, but it is also really easy for Protoss to prepare defense ahead of time...I really need to re-look the opener and adjust accordingly. | ||
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statikg
Canada930 Posts
I recall winning alot of games with iechoics build back in the fall until it got so popular it was standard for toss to leave units in their mineral lines. I think it would definitely be a much safer transition but it would not be as good if the protoss decides to pull a FE on you =/ PS, I still feel that you are overdoing it with 4 starports on 2base, I think that 3 or even 2 would be more manageable considering that on 2 bases you only bring in 400gas/min = 1thor/2banshee so unless your not using gas for anything else at all you can't afford to use all your starports all the time. PPS, in your transitions tab you state that 3 base = 4SP BCs - it actually is 3 base = 3SP BCs. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
I suppose going for a contain, taking an early third, and switching battlecruisers could do well on that case, but a strong two base timing attack with stalkers and high temps is pretty scary. That's what killed me before the cruisers were online but I was pretty late with the transition. This whole situation will be waaay easier when amulet is gone. As for the robo builds, the common reaction to marine/banshee has been Colossus/Phoenix, which I responded to by treating my marines like zerglings and rushing to 3/3. So you think collosus counters marines? I have a replay that proves otherwise . Obviously the bc switch is a more reliable response but if you can constantly pull their army out of position and keep the colossus numbers low by trading often, it is tons of fun. | ||
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