|
Hi there,
I think its a bit sad, that mainly TvP we currently see nothing but MMM + Viking. I can see all the reasons behind this, but Id like to discuss if there is another way.
People claim, that P and Z lategame is way stronger, than T. Sure, if you spam T1 units whole game, you cant expect to do well later, when your opponent has access to some top tier units. But it just seems that everyone is trying to find ways, how to actually make this MMM spam viable late game. Are all the Terrans so lazy to try adding some higher tier units or is it actually so effective to MMM your opponent to death? If so, isnt there something wrong with T tech tree, or size of maps, or whatever?
It also seems that T is forced to go this way as all other options are being constantly nerfed by patches. Reapers are gone. Hellions are going to have hard times because of Roach range and medivac being slowed down. Tanks were hit by recent patches a lot. We currently dont see singe tank in TvP and it seems like people are trying to go around tanks even in TvZ. Blizzard stated - "Tanks are performing too well against ground units overall". Well, now they dont perform at all.
edit: Im not complaining about balance. I would like to see marauder nerfed for example to see, how Terrans used the rest of their arsenal. I play Terran btw. To make this clear.
|
Sure, all Terrans are doing MMM because they haven't considered doing something else and they're lazy.
Im not complaining about balance ---> I would like to see marauder nerfed ? Does not compute.
|
MMM is very mobile and has high dps. There isn't much more you would want out of a unit composition. Transitioning into bc or thors or tanks is viable and may become standard in the future but if P is going heavy colossi then mmm w/ viking is the best way to go.
|
pretty sad that all protosses use is gateway units and collosus
i think they should nerf warp gates and collosus
|
I'm also curious about this. Personally when I try to mix other units in they are focused down so fast while m&m cost little and get's healed etc.
Banshee is used though... Or at least I've seen it used and I use it sometimes.
Proposing a marauder nerf brings down your reasoning
|
You're going to stop seeing MMM in TvP when Immortals stop raping mech as hard as they do now.
|
I'm pretty sure its all that we see because its the ONLY VIABLE THING RIGHT NOW.
|
On October 17 2010 18:07 Saechiis wrote:
Sure, all Terrans are doing MMM because they haven't considered doing something else and they're lazy.
Im not complaining about balance ---> I would like to see marauder nerfed ? Does not compute.
I play Terran. You could try to read whole the sentence and maybe, just maybe it will make more sense to you.
Id like to add one more thing. Please, try not to just find holes in logic and discredit my post. We have more than enough of those posts on tl. Thank you.
|
Will we see something other than zealot sentry stalker? What about roach ling?
MMM are the core units just like how Toss and Zerg have those core units. Yes, it does seem like Terran only make MMM but did you watch any of the games at MLG, select opens with a reaper and uses it throughout the game as harass. But it was nerfed!! How can someone use a unit thats been nerfed!?!?!
That is why Starcraft and people who play Starcraft are amazing: They adapt to what is available to them. Even though terrans use MMM as their main army, it won't be long till it changes because Toss and Zerg figure out ways to stop it. In my opinion it has already happened. Toss can use key forcefields and zerg just got the roach buff.
It's still a young game, nothing is "standard"
|
I'm terran and I do hellion thor tank, with armor and ranged upgraded turrets when I push. might even throw a PF down in the middle of my push. Obviously still get 4-5 vikings if P goes heavy Colossi.
|
It's just a very common style and I'm sure will be the 'standard' for TvP. Just like in BW there were standard compositions to use in the different matchups. I've seen players use tanks and hellions with there marine and maruarders. I think it's just the fact that people have realized the MMM is good and are using it.
And also,
Im not complaining about balance. I would like to see marauder nerfed for example to force Terrans use more of their arsenal.
You contradicted yourself with just one sentence, lol.
|
On October 17 2010 18:11 petzergling wrote:
pretty sad that all protosses use is gateway units and collosus
i think they should nerf warp gates and collosus
Ok, I got it. You disagree..
Now, could you actually think about it and come up with something less sarcastic and aggresive?
|
I don't play Toss to much but all i can say is just build HT's and start lol at the mmm ball. just go HT's and stalkers. Feedback the medic's and storm there ball they will lose half there army to 3-4 good storms. I never lose to terran as toss anymore with any kind of HT build.
|
I also miss the good old mech TvP 
Yet if you play mech, most of your damage comes from siege tanks and here are just some reasons, why they don't work like they did in BW: Blink Stalkers, Immortals, Chargelots, no mines, Phoenixes,...
|
The answer is obvious. Late T tech sucks. Mech like tanks and thors don't do so hot against chargelot, blink stalkers, immortals or ultra. Nerfing marauder is a terrible idea. You can't nerf a core unit of a race that has no high tech they can rely on except BC. Plus playing mech you can't remake units as fast as other two races.
|
Mech vs P is horrible, absolutely useless in my experience. Tanks get owned by zealots with charge, immortals, blink stalkers, voidrays, and they arent really good vs anything : /
Hellions are also pretty bad, the only unit they are even ok against is the zealot. Thors get owned by immortals and i think VR's aswell.
Nerfing MMM wouldnt make terran players go mech, they'd still go MMM because it's all they really can go.
Also, why do people say that all terran uses is tier 1?
Ghost, viking, medivac, is that tier 1? That is like saying protoss only go tier 1 because because of zealot/stalker/sentry. Totally disregarding colossus/HT.
|
On October 17 2010 18:30 positron. wrote:
The answer is obvious. Late T tech sucks. Mech like tanks and thors don't do so hot against chargelot, blink stalkers, immortals or ultra. Nerfing marauder is a terrible idea. You can't nerf a core unit of a race that has no high tech they can rely on except BC. Plus playing mech you can't remake units as fast as other two races.
Thors do fine against zerg ground units of all tiers and terrans do use things other than M&M in ZvT. I do agree with TvP being rather bland at the moment though, perhaps with the thor changes in 1.12 we may see them incorporated into lategame T army against P.
From what I have seen, terran needs ghosts in their army to compete with protoss, and going anything other than heavy bio is tough with ghosts because of their high gas dependancy. Would also note that making PDF's feedbackable was probably the worst game change in 1.12 because it lowered the possibility of using an already rarely used unit in TvP lategame -.-
|
On October 17 2010 18:44 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 18:30 positron. wrote:
The answer is obvious. Late T tech sucks. Mech like tanks and thors don't do so hot against chargelot, blink stalkers, immortals or ultra. Nerfing marauder is a terrible idea. You can't nerf a core unit of a race that has no high tech they can rely on except BC. Plus playing mech you can't remake units as fast as other two races. Thors do fine against zerg ground units of all tiers and terrans do use things other than M&M in ZvT. I do agree with TvP being rather bland at the moment though, perhaps with the thor changes in 1.12 we may see them incorporated into lategame T army against P. From what I have seen, terran needs ghosts in their army to compete with protoss, and going anything other than heavy bio is tough with ghosts because of their high gas dependancy.
Nah you only need to go ghost because the protoss goes HT, which he only does if you're going MMM. If you're going mech he's just gonna build a few immortals, VR's, blink stalkers and charge zealots. I'd actually like to see a high level game where a Terran won with mech vs protoss.
|
Marine Marauder Medivac, two of these units are considered CORE units for all terrans, i don't think you'll ever see a terran not build some MMM at some point in the game , they are the MEAT of the terran, granted there are viable mech builds, but even they incorporate Marines and marauders to soak and deal dmg. its not that terran players havent considered other options but not building the Core units to protect your self while your teching to w/e your heart desires without which you would prolly just lose. Marines have some of the highest dps of the available ground units can shoot at air and ground. mainly your going to see MMM vs protoss due to the amount of gateway units most protoss send at the terran player. Zerg fights generally end up as mech fights, i have alot of tanks n thors and a good amount of other CORE units such as the marines/marauders to back up my tanks/thors.
|
Yes, mech in TvP is problematic, since P has already many answers. Its not like P needs to think about how to play. Just make specific units and its done. Id like to see one change adressing mech TvP, which is Phoenix lifting tanks in siege mode. But its true that SC2 is too young. It will probably change over time again. Hopefully..
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
