EPT
Before leaving my opponent (diamond 839) called me "moron".
[G] Battlecruiser Rush (Or: How to Be a Boss) - Page 3
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Rotsor
Kyrgyzstan13 Posts
Before leaving my opponent (diamond 839) called me "moron". | ||
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
On September 05 2010 12:48 Rotsor wrote: This build does not work. Before leaving my opponent (diamond 839) called me "moron". Damn. Would you mind posting the replay? Maybe we can figure out what went wrong or if there's a big problem with the build (and maybe be able to fix it). | ||
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Rotsor
Kyrgyzstan13 Posts
All my marines and most of SCVs got blasted with his banelings, by the way. | ||
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MinoMino
Norway1103 Posts
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Cytokinesis
Canada330 Posts
http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3146 I couldn't get it perfect like I did before but it's close enough I'll upload it. If you get the timings 100% perfect nothing is delayed at all. Like my starport was delayed a sec or 2, that doesn't happen if you execute perfectly. Watch until the end as it also has a follow-through. | ||
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Akuemon
Canada151 Posts
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
On September 05 2010 13:13 Cytokinesis wrote: Alright here is my attempt at tuning it up: http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3146 I couldn't get it perfect like I did before but it's close enough I'll upload it. If you get the timings 100% perfect nothing is delayed at all. Like my starport was delayed a sec or 2, that doesn't happen if you execute perfectly. Watch until the end as it also has a follow-through. Very interesting, it sounds like yours is quite a bit better.Will look at replay tomorrow.  | ||
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Cytokinesis
Canada330 Posts
I think the important difference, however, is that by the time I reach my opponents base my expansion JUST finishes. One thing that bothers me for both is the large amount of gas built up after the first BC. I think after you finish the first BC you can prob take everyone off of 1 geyser as soon as you start your second BC. In mine as soon as I start my second BC when it's building I have little to spend gas on, despite dropping to ~80 by the time my second BC starts. This where you start getting gas surplus Perhaps upgrades? Although looking at it if times absolutely perfectly you could drop to almost 0 gas every time a BC finishes (you gain roughly 300 in the build time of a BC) | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
On September 05 2010 15:10 Cytokinesis wrote: Comparing the 2 replays (I looked at yours on steps specifically I'll look at the others as well). I get my battlecruiser out a full minute before yours as well as being 7 food ahead (1 minute earlier.) My BC comes out at 7:45 and 48 food yours is 8:44 at 41 food. I think though a large difference is you messed up a bit at the start. I think the important difference, however, is that by the time I reach my opponents base my expansion JUST finishes. One thing that bothers me for both is the large amount of gas built up after the first BC. I think after you finish the first BC you can prob take everyone off of 1 geyser as soon as you start your second BC. In mine as soon as I start my second BC when it's building I have little to spend gas on, despite dropping to ~80 by the time my second BC starts. This where you start getting gas surplus Perhaps upgrades? Although looking at it if times absolutely perfectly you could drop to almost 0 gas every time a BC finishes (you gain roughly 300 in the build time of a BC) Great observation. Getting a little picky though, the strength of the build doesn't really rely too much on the follow up or future play. it's based more on the initial damage of the first bc/rines. You can't CONSITENTLY pump scvs and marines, as your bc will be slightly delayed, but its pretty darn close. Like i said earlier, i am considering cutting scvs earlier to ensure a pure marine pump. This will bolster my bc push with more marines, but have a few less for the bc repair. Tips: Rallying your next starport/bc and rax to your bc. Also your scvs and marines. Then keep the marines in a seperate hotkey group to a move then in an encounter, this just makes sure you engage with both the bc and the marines at the same time, a key component to the build. Props to all the high quality posts on TL. This is how every thread should go. 1. I have a build that seems cool. 2. Can other players try this out? 3. What did you learn from this build, can you make it better? As opposed to the popular 1. I have an unbeatable build. 2. Everyone theorycraft about it 3. Start calling each other out 4. Degraded the value of the idea Again, mad props to the participants to a great thread! | ||
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Cytokinesis
Canada330 Posts
I'm going to play a ton more, but the timing is essential. Against the 2-gate robo my BC came out JUST in time to stop the 1 immortal push. Like as soon as they hit my ramp it popped. Also I disagree about the strength not being in the follow-through. | ||
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
I have an extra barracks, he has a command center. I found that I can afford a CC as well with the second barracks but I personally prefer to go all-in (since even with an expo, you're kinda boned anyway with the 6 pulled scvs and the slight scv cutting throughout the build). Personally I think I like my way a bit more but that's just a preference thing. I'll make sure to include Cyto's in the OP so that people can choose for themselves. :D Edit: Cytokinesis, I swear you had briefly outlined what you did in a post on here before. Did you edit it or am I blind? I'll just have to extract your build myself if I'm just remembering you saying it earlier wrong. T_T | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
On September 05 2010 16:27 Cytokinesis wrote: I played quite a few games against high-level friends using this. I think it only really "works" against 2 gate robo and FE zerg who scouts late. Against 2 gate robo it is close, your push won't do much damage, but rather secure your expo. That's what happened in all my TvP games. I couldn't break but I had an expo and 1 BC and he didn't have an expo (all my marines died). I'm going to play a ton more, but the timing is essential. Against the 2-gate robo my BC came out JUST in time to stop the 1 immortal push. Like as soon as they hit my ramp it popped. Also I disagree about the strength not being in the follow-through. I am curious about your opinion about robo timings. Are you talking about head on engagements, or being able to defend with marine/bunker? Since no robo units shoots air seeing a robo should be a good thing. The more immortals/col/obs they make the bigger timing window you have to do some damage. | ||
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
On September 06 2010 00:55 zomgtossrush wrote: I am curious about your opinion about robo timings. Are you talking about head on engagements, or being able to defend with marine/bunker? Since no robo units shoots air seeing a robo should be a good thing. The more immortals/col/obs they make the bigger timing window you have to do some damage. I imagine you would have to scout to see if an immortal push is on its way so you can be ready to repair ASAP. Your bunker will just fall really fast otherwise. Similarly, I'm curious if collosus with range could get to you before the BC and bust down the bunker. Something to be tested I guess. | ||
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maelswarm
4 Posts
I consistently cued my BCs around the 6:40ish mark, with no delays in build order to Fusion Core. However, I can see this being problematic against a cheese play like cannon rush or reapers. I scouted out my opponents at 10 or 11 supply though, just to make sure they weren't going for a 6 pool, and walled off before they could scout my main to hide the BC tech. However, both games ended up being a base race, with me floating off my buildings when they would rush into my base with mutas or nydus worm. | ||
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Cytokinesis
Canada330 Posts
I like yours because I feel it is safer, so I think it would be more useful in TvZ.As far as robo timings, literally as soon as they hit my ramp on steppes with a 1 immortal timing push my BC popped out. If it wasn't for that BC I would have died even repairing bunker. So if it is on a different map you can expect to meet them during your push, or a base trade if you don't meet them. Also it isn't possible to get collosus with range BEFORE the BC. But it is possible to get one as your BC pops (on short rush maps). Also as far as observer goes by the time an obs pops out in a standard build it will be too late to throw down a stargate and will only be able to get 1-2 extra stalkers if he throws down reactionary gates. Also I did have the thing written down then I edited post xD It is: 11 gas 12 rax (cut one scv for a 12--you can get 13 if you feel it's safe enough) 16 fac (or the instant your rax finishes) 2nd gas when factory is half-done 19 starport 24 fusion core 29 BC 41 CC | ||
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
On September 06 2010 05:22 Cytokinesis wrote: Yeah Bibbit it is definitely a preference thing I like yours because I feel it is safer, so I think it would be more useful in TvZ.As far as robo timings, literally as soon as they hit my ramp on steppes with a 1 immortal timing push my BC popped out. If it wasn't for that BC I would have died even repairing bunker. So if it is on a different map you can expect to meet them during your push, or a base trade if you don't meet them. Also it isn't possible to get collosus with range BEFORE the BC. But it is possible to get one as your BC pops (on short rush maps). Also as far as observer goes by the time an obs pops out in a standard build it will be too late to throw down a stargate and will only be able to get 1-2 extra stalkers if he throws down reactionary gates. Also I did have the thing written down then I edited post xD It is: 11 gas 12 rax (cut one scv for a 12--you can get 13 if you feel it's safe enough) 16 fac (or the instant your rax finishes) 2nd gas when factory is half-done 19 starport 24 fusion core 29 BC 41 CC Good stuff. Edited it into OP in the BO section with a brief description. If there's anything else you want to say, just say so. | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
I would look into incorporating this build with iEchoic's TvP hellion drop into marine banshee into BC build that's floating around here somewhere. | ||
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Resin
United States5 Posts
As to the build I've got it to work against some higher level friends. To be precise 2 out of three tries. I need to work on my timing a bit. I have had some experience with a similar thor rush build and was able to adapt to this one fairly well. I think Cytokinesis's bo is pretty solid. Even though this is a all out bo starting your expo after bc is a relevent play. Even if the rush fails having the expo by the time your bc reaches your opponets base should allow you enough minerals to transistion into something else if your rush is thwarted. Unless however you end up trading bases. Definatly a worthwhile build. Thanks for sharing it. | ||
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petelectro
Germany69 Posts
I watched the replays and read every post just because I really like how the build evolved within a few posts. Would love if some of the zerg BO threads would go that way... @Topic: I can see this being actually valid in high level TvP. If you look at the current 4gate compositions most players won't get enough stalkers to kill a BC with scv support. I would work with Cyto's build though because I don't like all-ins myself and I really think every terran should expand with his first push. Against zerg I wouldn't recommend that build because most zerg players will have a baneling nest pretty soon against T and that kinda messes up the whole push. | ||
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