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Edit: November 2nd, 2010 - Battlecruisers have been nerfed since I wrote this a few months ago. However, its my belief that its by no means obsolete post-nerf. I don't really play Terran anymore but I'll see if I can't get a few more replays up to show you guys this build's legitimacy, even in a post-nerf world. Enjoy. :D
Introduction
Hi, I'm Bibbit and I have recently concocted what I feel is a pretty solid Battlecruiser Rush. Obviously, it is my duty to share it with the wonderful community known as Team Liquid. One thing I should say before you go any further: It is an all-in. If that's not your cup of tea, go elsewhere. On the other hand, it's a mother flippin Battlecruiser rush.
It is quite possibly the only all-in I've come across where you don't usually get BM'd for it, I think possibly in part because its a battlecruiser rush. Rather, people will love you, as shown in these testimonials.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
The build has only recently begun testing on the ladder at roughly 750~ diamond. Enough of this, lets get to the fun stuff.
Build Order
This is strictly the way I've been doing it as a pure BC rush, I will later address different ways to add your own style.
10 Depot
12 Barracks
13 Gas
15 OC
16 Depot
That's all I know for food counts.
Constant marines
Constant SCVs
Depots when needed
Factory at 100 gas
Start second gas at 50% of factory
Also at 50% of factory, bunker at choke (or you'll die)
100% of factory -> Start Starport. You can send Factory to scout.
100% of Starport -> Start Fusion Core and a second Barracks
40/65 Seconds on Fusion Core (About 2/3 done), start Tech Lab on Starport
You know what happens next
No? START THE BATTLECRUISER
- When your BC finishes, take it with all your marines and a shitload of scvs (I leave 6 on gas and 6 on minerals. Seems to be able to support 2 rax making marines + battlecruiser reinforcements if you keep muling and stop making SCVs)
- Set your scvs to auto-repair so that your battlecruiser is invincible. Edit: On September 05 2010 11:32 PeatSchmitt wrote:
[...] Dude you might benefit from having scvs follow the BC rather then selecting them with your marines and having them fight. Just a though...
- Watch your shit. Your marines and SCVs will naturally get ahead of you Battlecruiser. Don't let them or they die and you lose.
Because this thread (and the TL community in general) turned out to be awesome, I now present an alternate build order came up by Cytokinesis. It gets the battlecruiser about 20 seconds faster than mine but could be considered a bit less safe. Note that the 20 seconds earlier it is could be very important vs 2 gate robo pushes with an immortal on shorter maps (Steppes, close positions on Delta Squadrant, LT, or Metalopolis are examples). It is less all-in than mine as it gets up an expansion as you move out, while having a bit less marines, having one less barracks, and bringing less SCVs to the attack. Without further delay, here is his build order. :D
+ Show Spoiler +11 gas 12 rax (cut one scv for a 12--you can get 13 if you feel it's safe enough) 16 fac (or the instant your rax finishes) 2nd gas when factory is half-done 19 starport 24 fusion core 29 BC 41 CC A replay of him doing this build can be found here: http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3146
Style
What good is a BC rush without the ability to add your own style in? There's a number of things you can change.
One thing I've been experimenting with is a bunker rush vs Zerg. It forces a lot more zerglings to be made (thus delaying their anti-air) without delaying your Battlecruiser all that much.
An example is shown here: http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3094
This might be the most exaggerated example possible but the point still stands imo. He actually leaves before the Battlecruiser ever gets to exist but I think its pretty clear he would be completely boned. (Note that this was a particularly bad game for me too and I botched the shit out of my build).
Another thing I've been pondering over is whether or not to proxy the Starport. Battlecruisers are incredibly slow and it's always nice to have them started like halfway down the map. However, there's a chance of this happening:
+ Show Spoiler +
Or this:
+ Show Spoiler +
Perhaps this could be worked around by more thought out proxy spots (AKA not in range of a watch tower).
I guess the biggest thing to remember is: Do whatever the hell you want. You rushed a battlecruiser. Even if you lose horribly, you're still awesome. The BO I have given seems to be pretty optimal for getting a BC out but anything after that is really up to you. Maybe you can try getting a Raven for PDD vs stalkers?
I tried bringing only 6 SCVs and taking an expo when I moved out (only tried it once and failed horribly, I guess there's no harm in posting the replay, will be in replay section).
It seems you can start it with a bunker rush with a reaper.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2010 09:29 Solaris.playgu wrote:After fooling around in qxcs build order tester I have found a way to go about a bunker reaper rush --> bc rush. My build order is as follows: 9 gas 10 rax (the building scv then goes to gas) 11 supply When the depot and rax finishes (same time) add on a tech lab and continue building scvs. When tech lab finishes, start building a reaper and send an scv to build a bunker. After the reaper finishes, build a marine. The 15th scv will finish perfectly in time with 250 minerals, therefore: 15 orbital (and bunker) While orbital finishes, build a second supply to complete your walloff. The building scv will go to gas after. Build another marine, and when orbital finishes, build an scv, call down a mule and then: 17 factory The scv building the fact will then go on and build the starport and later the fusion core. In the meantime, continue pumping scvs and marines. At half factory, build the second gas (as in the original build, ~21 supply). Add a depot around 23 supply. At roughly 33 supply, stop making scvs. While leaving 6 behind you should then have 10 of them to follow in the glorious attack that is soon to commence. When you have started the first battlecruiser build a second rax. As soon as the first battlecruiser finishes, move out. And kick some alien butt in the most glorious fashion that can ever be considered possible! This attack should come around the 9minute mark. (OP's clarification: leaves your base at 9 minutes, so it will be about a minute slower than mine. /OP) Including a replay against a very easy computer just to show the timings. I am very tired and don´t give a rats ass anyway, so there is no reaper micro shown whatsoever. Just trying to build the right thing at the right time, which I also kinda screw up at times xD Anyhow: http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3143
Another nice thing about this build is that its essentially a 1/1/1 build (unless you scout with factory and lose it) so there's almost limitless possibilities!
Other Thoughts
It seems to be absolutely terrible in TvT. The Siege Tank/ Viking play that is so prevalent in that match up seems to hard counter the shit out of this BC Rush. However, a similar thing can be done with a thor.
I think its strongest match up is TvP. A 2/3 warpgate + a robo should likely get mauled pretty good. Phoenixes should get rolled. An expansion play can likely be walked over. Void Rays could be a problem and 4 warp gate builds can also pose a threat. My BC gets to their base (non-proxied) at about 9 minutes or so. I checked a replay of myself 4 gating (I'm random) and I had 7 sentries, 7 stalkers, and 5 zealots. BC Rush sounds kinda dead. 
Unfortunately, I have not yet played enough games to concretely confirm or deny any of this.
Replays
TvP on Steppes: http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3095
TvZ on Blistering Sands: http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3096
TvT (Embarassing loss with Expansion Follow-up): http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3097
Conclusion
I definitely wouldn't suggest adopting this as your safe, sturdy build (because it is neither of those things). However, it could be something cute to have in your back pocket for whatever purpose (for fun, to feel like a boss, playing real life friends, etc). So guys, go out and try it.  Also, sorry for bad picture quality but you should get the idea.
I will be adding to this as I learn more myself and feel more than free to throw any replays of yourselves trying this in hear and we can try to flesh out this build even more.
Thanks for reading! :D
Bonus: Possible Ideas from the Thread
Of course our friendly, expert Team Liquid members have some ideas of their own for things you can try. You can look through these and see if there's anything you like. Because like I said, the battlecruiser rush is all about style. :D
+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2010 03:37 Telcontar wrote:
do you have enough resources to squeeze out a medivac/viking before adding the tech lab on the starport? i guess i'll just give it a shot myself.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2010 03:42 Darthturtle wrote:
How about gas before barracks for faster factory? Also, earlier second gas maybe? You'll get a marauder from the barracks if you get the tech lab there and just switch with starport.
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I am definitely gonna try this out, should be an awesome build to try on my friends
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TLO is the only one who can do this without being a fag
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On September 04 2010 14:19 Bibbit wrote:
I guess the biggest thing to remember is: Do whatever the hell you want. You rushed a battlecruiser. Even if you lose horribly, you're still awesome.
This line made your post awesome. For that, I will definitely try my hand at this
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When your BC finishes, take it with all your marines and a shitload of scvs (I leave 6 on gas and 6 on minerals. Seems to be able to support 2 rax making marines + battlecruiser reinforcements if you keep muling and stop making SCVs)
If this is true, it is the most important part of your post. Will give it a shot.
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On September 04 2010 15:40 zomgtossrush wrote:
When your BC finishes, take it with all your marines and a shitload of scvs (I leave 6 on gas and 6 on minerals. Seems to be able to support 2 rax making marines + battlecruiser reinforcements if you keep muling and stop making SCVs)
If this is true, it is the most important part of your post. Will give it a shot.
Yeah, I tried it vs the computer so I can macro perfectly and it works out. I ended up with like 3-5 second pauses between Battlecruisers but that could be because I had to keep making supply depots. In a real game, your shit should be dying so you shouldnt need as many depots. But even still, 3 second breaks between BCs isn't the hugest deal in the world.
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Mass Marines being as effective as they are against ground and air targets, it doesn't surprise me that you can hold off purely with them while you tech up to your favourite unit. If only Zealots or Zerglings were so good we'd see some Carrier or Broodlord rushes
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
do you have enough resources to squeeze out a medivac/viking before adding the tech lab on the starport? i guess i'll just give it a shot myself.
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How about gas before barracks for faster factory? Also, earlier second gas maybe? You'll get a marauder from the barracks if you get the tech lab there and just switch with starport.
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I got to diamond using pure carrier rush before I started doing standard macro play.
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Started a new section. People of course will think of other things they can do either leading up to the battlecruiser are following up from it so I'll put any ideas people come up with in the OP.
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I love these kind of tech rushes. Will try it out!
I had amazing success with carrier rushing in PvT (~800 Dia).
Basicly the strategy is to rush a voidray to keep the terran in his base so you can expand and cannon up your natural expansion. Meanwhile you add on the fleet beacon and a second stargate.
The normal response for almost every terran who face a wall of cannons is to get a few tanks/marauders to break it. And when they siege up against the cannons you reveal your awesomeness and scream TADAAA!
Recently I've seen white-ra do similar things vs zerg, although he opens phoenixes(But he doesnt scream TADAA! which is a key part of the strategy).
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On September 05 2010 03:22 Bibdy wrote:Mass Marines being as effective as they are against ground and air targets, it doesn't surprise me that you can hold off purely with them while you tech up to your favourite unit. If only Zealots or Zerglings were so good we'd see some Carrier or Broodlord rushes
I carrier rush against Z :D
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Someone tried to do this to me on ladder, but the build I was using included plenty of marines, tanks, and vikings.
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On September 05 2010 04:45 JohnRee wrote:
Someone tried to do this to me on ladder, but the build I was using included plenty of marines, tanks, and vikings.
Check if my embarrassing loss in the replay section is you.
Like I said, TvT is hard for this build because everyone includes plenty of marines, tanks, and vikings.
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~1000 Diamond Random
Just tried the build out a few times TvP, here are my thoughts.
In regards to the "get a 2nd gas before fact for a faster fact." You actually get a slower factory because you are down 75 minerals+ mining time, you still need more minerals for a factory. I think a faster 2nd gas would actually slow the timing down.
Timings work our pretty solid, I find i sometimes have to slow down on the marine production to make sure my tech gets out asap. However, this probably should be cut in the scv production since you are playing for one big push anyways.
I think vs any robo play build this is autowin. 4 warpgate could be a different issue depending on the stalker commitment, but through ladder experiment, most p's back away from pure stalker builds due to the aggressive marauder builds.
Holds well/decently off vr play since you have that consistent marine pump.
I think the proxy is unnecessary. The risk reward is way too off, plus the bc timing might help with some hero spawns if for whatever reason your wall breaks down.
Seems like a rare build where scouting isn't too necessary, since you are basically relying on just one solid attack. And if you were too scout something, unless it was extreme(2 gate proxy) you are already committed to the build. Plus since its pretty new, its hard to know smooth transitions. I think its best to just keep trying the same build no matter what, until you run into a wall(a build) that stops it consistently. Then tweak the build around that opposing wall.
I am also considering throwing in 1-2 hellions if i see heavy zealot compositions. But mass rines with BC fire seems to hold up pretty good in general.
Conclusion:
Seems kind of solid, at least in the TvP world. Again my thoughts are gut reactions with about 5-6 games played, so its all open. But definitely worth investigating, and possible tweaking.
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Holy shit^
That's what I'm talking about. More people like you and we'll have this going strong in no time. Thank you very much, :D
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Hmm, have you thought about faking a bunker reaper rush against z to force a shitload of lings? Kinda like the bunker rush you did, only making one reaper for harass. Just to make him think he has to build a lot of speedlings / roaches.
Definately gonna try this out! And by the way, you´re awesome! :D
Oh, and after watching the replays, you can rightclick your scvs on your bc for follow. That way they won´t go in front and die.
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On the topic of squeezing more into the build: would it be possible to lift your Starport onto an existing Tech Lab, or would that cut into your earlier production timings? Swapping a Lab on just as the Core finishes would allow you to build a single Viking or Medivac (funds allowing), and swapping one on just after the Starport finishes would allow you to build a Banshee or Raven. A Banshee would be nice for a little more power on the push, and a Raven would allow you to deal with Vikings, Stalkers, Phoenixes, and Hydras. If you don't mind waiting 2 ingame seconds, you can build a Viking or Medivac before starting your Tech Lab on the Starport. I haven't personally tested this out, so I don't know what your money levels are like, but the timings for this work out nicely.
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I whole heartedly support this thread.
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On September 05 2010 06:47 Acritter wrote:
On the topic of squeezing more into the build: would it be possible to lift your Starport onto an existing Tech Lab, or would that cut into your earlier production timings? Swapping a Lab on just as the Core finishes would allow you to build a single Viking or Medivac (funds allowing), and swapping one on just after the Starport finishes would allow you to build a Banshee or Raven. A Banshee would be nice for a little more power on the push, and a Raven would allow you to deal with Vikings, Stalkers, Phoenixes, and Hydras. If you don't mind waiting 2 ingame seconds, you can build a Viking or Medivac before starting your Tech Lab on the Starport. I haven't personally tested this out, so I don't know what your money levels are like, but the timings for this work out nicely.
I don't think you have the gas for any other gas units, since bc's are 400-300. And the timings of when the bc comes are solid, as in you have sub 100/100 resources. Meaning that if you were to do any sort of fast lab switch, you won't be able to pump out a unit out of it that would compensate for a slower bc. Basically i'd rather have a faster bc VS 6ish stalkers over having a slower bc+banshee vs 10 Stalkers(theorycrafting), which is what it seems like you are suggesting. The idea of a medivac seems sorta intriguing because of the heal mechanic, and it makes marines last even longer, but like i said, its best to get the bare bone build down before tweaking it.
I also forgot to add, that the techlab timing on the startport can basically come at any time, i find my self just sitting there waiting for the 1/2-2/3 mark with extra money/more importantly gas. So min tends to come out faster.
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On September 05 2010 03:22 Bibdy wrote:Mass Marines being as effective as they are against ground and air targets, it doesn't surprise me that you can hold off purely with them while you tech up to your favourite unit. If only Zealots or Zerglings were so good we'd see some Carrier or Broodlord rushes
broodlord rushes are pretty much impossible.
pool>lair>spire>infestation pit>hive>greater spire
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On September 05 2010 07:16 zomgtossrush wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 06:47 Acritter wrote:
On the topic of squeezing more into the build: would it be possible to lift your Starport onto an existing Tech Lab, or would that cut into your earlier production timings? Swapping a Lab on just as the Core finishes would allow you to build a single Viking or Medivac (funds allowing), and swapping one on just after the Starport finishes would allow you to build a Banshee or Raven. A Banshee would be nice for a little more power on the push, and a Raven would allow you to deal with Vikings, Stalkers, Phoenixes, and Hydras. If you don't mind waiting 2 ingame seconds, you can build a Viking or Medivac before starting your Tech Lab on the Starport. I haven't personally tested this out, so I don't know what your money levels are like, but the timings for this work out nicely. I don't think you have the gas for any other gas units, since bc's are 400-300. And the timings of when the bc comes are solid, as in you have sub 100/100 resources. Meaning that if you were to do any sort of fast lab switch, you won't be able to pump out a unit out of it that would compensate for a slower bc. Basically i'd rather have a faster bc VS 6ish stalkers over having a slower bc+banshee vs 10 Stalkers(theorycrafting), which is what it seems like you are suggesting. The idea of a medivac seems sorta intriguing because of the heal mechanic, and it makes marines last even longer, but like i said, its best to get the bare bone build down before tweaking it. I also forgot to add, that the techlab timing on the startport can basically come at any time, i find my self just sitting there waiting for the 1/2-2/3 mark with extra money/more importantly gas. So min tends to come out faster.
I wouldn't so much recommend a Banshee as a Raven, especially versus Stalkers. PDD is absolutely brutal. You might want to look into a delayed push as opposed to a rush, as a higher concentration of BCs can deal with enemy units much more efficiently. That's a matter of choice, though. It's nice that you're able to manage <100 resources, it shows a pretty efficient build.
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On September 05 2010 08:07 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 07:16 zomgtossrush wrote:On September 05 2010 06:47 Acritter wrote:
On the topic of squeezing more into the build: would it be possible to lift your Starport onto an existing Tech Lab, or would that cut into your earlier production timings? Swapping a Lab on just as the Core finishes would allow you to build a single Viking or Medivac (funds allowing), and swapping one on just after the Starport finishes would allow you to build a Banshee or Raven. A Banshee would be nice for a little more power on the push, and a Raven would allow you to deal with Vikings, Stalkers, Phoenixes, and Hydras. If you don't mind waiting 2 ingame seconds, you can build a Viking or Medivac before starting your Tech Lab on the Starport. I haven't personally tested this out, so I don't know what your money levels are like, but the timings for this work out nicely. I don't think you have the gas for any other gas units, since bc's are 400-300. And the timings of when the bc comes are solid, as in you have sub 100/100 resources. Meaning that if you were to do any sort of fast lab switch, you won't be able to pump out a unit out of it that would compensate for a slower bc. Basically i'd rather have a faster bc VS 6ish stalkers over having a slower bc+banshee vs 10 Stalkers(theorycrafting), which is what it seems like you are suggesting. The idea of a medivac seems sorta intriguing because of the heal mechanic, and it makes marines last even longer, but like i said, its best to get the bare bone build down before tweaking it. I also forgot to add, that the techlab timing on the startport can basically come at any time, i find my self just sitting there waiting for the 1/2-2/3 mark with extra money/more importantly gas. So min tends to come out faster. I wouldn't so much recommend a Banshee as a Raven, especially versus Stalkers. PDD is absolutely brutal. You might want to look into a delayed push as opposed to a rush, as a higher concentration of BCs can deal with enemy units much more efficiently. That's a matter of choice, though. It's nice that you're able to manage <100 resources, it shows a pretty efficient build.
![[image loading]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JHSGPuBASlTDqCnxrtyVzFJdgVBNXJ8VIlL6vV9TacG7ZyKeiFUrSCTQ7hHeHmxEuFHhgOSxeM1cDP-3oKoWvv_Z_g=s512)
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After fooling around in qxcs build order tester I have found a way to go about a bunker reaper rush --> bc rush. My build order is as follows:
9 gas
10 rax (the building scv then goes to gas)
11 supply
When the depot and rax finishes (same time) add on a tech lab and continue building scvs.
When tech lab finishes, start building a reaper and send an scv to build a bunker. After the reaper finishes, build a marine. The 15th scv will finish perfectly in time with 250 minerals, therefore:
15 orbital (and bunker)
While orbital finishes, build a second supply to complete your walloff. The building scv will go to gas after. Build another marine, and when orbital finishes, build an scv, call down a mule and then:
17 factory
The scv building the fact will then go on and build the starport and later the fusion core. In the meantime, continue pumping scvs and marines. At half factory, build the second gas (as in the original build, ~21 supply). Add a depot around 23 supply. At roughly 33 supply, stop making scvs. While leaving 6 behind you should then have 10 of them to follow in the glorious attack that is soon to commence. When you have started the first battlecruiser build a second rax.
As soon as the first battlecruiser finishes, move out. And kick some alien butt in the most glorious fashion that can ever be considered possible!
This attack should come around the 9minute mark.
Including a replay against a very easy computer just to show the timings. I am very tired and don´t give a rats ass anyway, so there is no reaper micro shown whatsoever. Just trying to build the right thing at the right time, which I also kinda screw up at times xD Anyhow:
http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3143
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I've been doing this since beta.
Well, something similar, at least.
It's fantastic in TvP if you can attack before the 11 min mark.
The build I use is..
+ Show Spoiler [2 rax BC rush] +
10 depot
12 rax
13 gas
15 orbital
16 marine
16 depot
16 tech lab (get 2 marauders and a reaper asap)
20 rax
20 refinery
23 concussive shells
24 depot
26 fact
26 tech lab (on 2nd rax)
31 depot
35 port
37 depot
42 stim
45 fusion core
45 depot
from here on go hellion/marine until your BC starts so you conserve gas.
On Steppes, without proxying the port, this build will reach the opponent's natural at about 10:45 with an 80+ supply army. Be sure to bring 5~6 SCVs to repair the BC. It works hilariously well.
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On September 05 2010 09:29 Solaris.playgu wrote:After fooling around in qxcs build order tester I have found a way to go about a bunker reaper rush --> bc rush. My build order is as follows: 9 gas 10 rax (the building scv then goes to gas) 11 supply When the depot and rax finishes (same time) add on a tech lab and continue building scvs. When tech lab finishes, start building a reaper and send an scv to build a bunker. After the reaper finishes, build a marine. The 15th scv will finish perfectly in time with 250 minerals, therefore: 15 orbital (and bunker) While orbital finishes, build a second supply to complete your walloff. The building scv will go to gas after. Build another marine, and when orbital finishes, build an scv, call down a mule and then: 17 factory The scv building the fact will then go on and build the starport and later the fusion core. In the meantime, continue pumping scvs and marines. At half factory, build the second gas (as in the original build, ~21 supply). Add a depot around 23 supply. At roughly 33 supply, stop making scvs. While leaving 6 behind you should then have 10 of them to follow in the glorious attack that is soon to commence. When you have started the first battlecruiser build a second rax. As soon as the first battlecruiser finishes, move out. And kick some alien butt in the most glorious fashion that can ever be considered possible! This attack should come around the 9minute mark. Including a replay against a very easy computer just to show the timings. I am very tired and don´t give a rats ass anyway, so there is no reaper micro shown whatsoever. Just trying to build the right thing at the right time, which I also kinda screw up at times xD Anyhow: http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3143
Nicely done, I'll add to OP.
Side note: At 9 minutes the BC finishes or the attack gets to their base? Makes a huge difference with slow-ass BCs.
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The attack leaves your base at more or less exactly 9min, so should arrive ~10 min dependent on map.
Actually after rewatching your game against diseventeen(Z) it seems the timing is more or less identical. Though with a reaper you get some harass potential as well. Also, and this is the most important bit, you trick your opponent into believing you are a cheesy fag by doing a 10rax reaper bunker rush, and then force him to realize your awesomeness by following up with an all-in bc rush! Kewl shit indeed :D
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On September 05 2010 09:22 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 08:07 Acritter wrote:On September 05 2010 07:16 zomgtossrush wrote:On September 05 2010 06:47 Acritter wrote:
On the topic of squeezing more into the build: would it be possible to lift your Starport onto an existing Tech Lab, or would that cut into your earlier production timings? Swapping a Lab on just as the Core finishes would allow you to build a single Viking or Medivac (funds allowing), and swapping one on just after the Starport finishes would allow you to build a Banshee or Raven. A Banshee would be nice for a little more power on the push, and a Raven would allow you to deal with Vikings, Stalkers, Phoenixes, and Hydras. If you don't mind waiting 2 ingame seconds, you can build a Viking or Medivac before starting your Tech Lab on the Starport. I haven't personally tested this out, so I don't know what your money levels are like, but the timings for this work out nicely. I don't think you have the gas for any other gas units, since bc's are 400-300. And the timings of when the bc comes are solid, as in you have sub 100/100 resources. Meaning that if you were to do any sort of fast lab switch, you won't be able to pump out a unit out of it that would compensate for a slower bc. Basically i'd rather have a faster bc VS 6ish stalkers over having a slower bc+banshee vs 10 Stalkers(theorycrafting), which is what it seems like you are suggesting. The idea of a medivac seems sorta intriguing because of the heal mechanic, and it makes marines last even longer, but like i said, its best to get the bare bone build down before tweaking it. I also forgot to add, that the techlab timing on the startport can basically come at any time, i find my self just sitting there waiting for the 1/2-2/3 mark with extra money/more importantly gas. So min tends to come out faster. I wouldn't so much recommend a Banshee as a Raven, especially versus Stalkers. PDD is absolutely brutal. You might want to look into a delayed push as opposed to a rush, as a higher concentration of BCs can deal with enemy units much more efficiently. That's a matter of choice, though. It's nice that you're able to manage <100 resources, it shows a pretty efficient build.
10/10
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On September 04 2010 14:41 ThE.SparkZ wrote:
TLO is the only one who can do this without being a fag
I don't mean to be a minimod, but that's not the type of thing you should be posting.
At any rate, battlecruiser rushes will be even worse come 1.1, Blizzard has preemptively squashed your creativity.
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![[image loading]](http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4756/battlecruiseramazed.jpg)
Will Try.
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On September 05 2010 06:20 zomgtossrush wrote:
~1000 Diamond Random
Just tried the build out a few times TvP, here are my thoughts.
In regards to the "get a 2nd gas before fact for a faster fact." You actually get a slower factory because you are down 75 minerals+ mining time, you still need more minerals for a factory. I think a faster 2nd gas would actually slow the timing down.
Are you sure? If you go the normal 15orb -> marine and then get a refinery asap and delay your depot until it is really needed(it'll be too early if you build it right away), I seem to get 150/100 just in time for the fac. This also would make it faster and would enable you to get a viking or a medivac out before the BC. I'm not sure if you can support full marine production as well, though.
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This strat is imba.
Just did it twice in custom, one against a Plat and one against a Gold. lol it was epic =]]
Changing to T as a main now
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On September 05 2010 04:47 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 04:45 JohnRee wrote:
Someone tried to do this to me on ladder, but the build I was using included plenty of marines, tanks, and vikings. Check if my embarrassing loss in the replay section is you. Like I said, TvT is hard for this build because everyone includes plenty of marines, tanks, and vikings.
That wasn't me. The game I remembered playing was on Metalopolis. It might have been you, your name does look familiar.
By the time the one BC came to my base, I had 3 or 4 vikings ready for it and plenty of marines and a few tanks with siege.
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Im currently watching the replays so if I missed this in posts im sorry. Dude you might benefit from having scvs follow the BC rather then selecting them with your marines and having them fight. Just a though...
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On September 05 2010 11:32 PeatSchmitt wrote:
Im currently watching the replays so if I missed this in posts im sorry. Dude you might benefit from having scvs follow the BC rather then selecting them with your marines and having them fight. Just a though...
Oh shit, that's actually pretty smart. Every little bit helps.
Much appreciated. :D
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I've used this a few times, it's fucking awesome. You can actually beat some relatively good players with this build (although I agree it shouldn't be your staple build, you have to do it quite a bit if you're a badass. It's required).
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one of the korean terrans did this vs tester and won
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hyrdra/bling/ling/corrupter ftw!
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This build does not work.
Before leaving my opponent (diamond 839) called me "moron".
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On September 05 2010 12:48 Rotsor wrote:This build does not work. Before leaving my opponent (diamond 839) called me "moron".
Damn. Would you mind posting the replay? Maybe we can figure out what went wrong or if there's a big problem with the build (and maybe be able to fix it).
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Bibbit, lol, I found the problem - it is my late gas. I forgot to make gas before OC, so my BC was not awesome enough, showing my moronity.
All my marines and most of SCVs got blasted with his banelings, by the way.
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Haha, I smiled when I looked at the thread title. I'm hoping this will somehow develop into a strong strategy. Make it work, guys!
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Alright here is my attempt at tuning it up:
http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3146
I couldn't get it perfect like I did before but it's close enough I'll upload it. If you get the timings 100% perfect nothing is delayed at all. Like my starport was delayed a sec or 2, that doesn't happen if you execute perfectly. Watch until the end as it also has a follow-through.
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OMG... I totally lost to this.
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Baller, is all. Enjoy it for the next week or so; I'm stickin' to my guns, er, grenades.
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On September 05 2010 13:13 Cytokinesis wrote:Alright here is my attempt at tuning it up: http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3146I couldn't get it perfect like I did before but it's close enough I'll upload it. If you get the timings 100% perfect nothing is delayed at all. Like my starport was delayed a sec or 2, that doesn't happen if you execute perfectly. Watch until the end as it also has a follow-through.
Very interesting, it sounds like yours is quite a bit better.Will look at replay tomorrow.
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Comparing the 2 replays (I looked at yours on steps specifically I'll look at the others as well). I get my battlecruiser out a full minute before yours as well as being 7 food ahead (1 minute earlier.) My BC comes out at 7:45 and 48 food yours is 8:44 at 41 food. I think though a large difference is you messed up a bit at the start.
I think the important difference, however, is that by the time I reach my opponents base my expansion JUST finishes.
One thing that bothers me for both is the large amount of gas built up after the first BC. I think after you finish the first BC you can prob take everyone off of 1 geyser as soon as you start your second BC. In mine as soon as I start my second BC when it's building I have little to spend gas on, despite dropping to ~80 by the time my second BC starts. This where you start getting gas surplus Perhaps upgrades? Although looking at it if times absolutely perfectly you could drop to almost 0 gas every time a BC finishes (you gain roughly 300 in the build time of a BC)
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On September 05 2010 15:10 Cytokinesis wrote:
Comparing the 2 replays (I looked at yours on steps specifically I'll look at the others as well). I get my battlecruiser out a full minute before yours as well as being 7 food ahead (1 minute earlier.) My BC comes out at 7:45 and 48 food yours is 8:44 at 41 food. I think though a large difference is you messed up a bit at the start.
I think the important difference, however, is that by the time I reach my opponents base my expansion JUST finishes.
One thing that bothers me for both is the large amount of gas built up after the first BC. I think after you finish the first BC you can prob take everyone off of 1 geyser as soon as you start your second BC. In mine as soon as I start my second BC when it's building I have little to spend gas on, despite dropping to ~80 by the time my second BC starts. This where you start getting gas surplus Perhaps upgrades? Although looking at it if times absolutely perfectly you could drop to almost 0 gas every time a BC finishes (you gain roughly 300 in the build time of a BC)
Great observation. Getting a little picky though, the strength of the build doesn't really rely too much on the follow up or future play. it's based more on the initial damage of the first bc/rines.
You can't CONSITENTLY pump scvs and marines, as your bc will be slightly delayed, but its pretty darn close. Like i said earlier, i am considering cutting scvs earlier to ensure a pure marine pump. This will bolster my bc push with more marines, but have a few less for the bc repair.
Tips: Rallying your next starport/bc and rax to your bc. Also your scvs and marines. Then keep the marines in a seperate hotkey group to a move then in an encounter, this just makes sure you engage with both the bc and the marines at the same time, a key component to the build.
Props to all the high quality posts on TL. This is how every thread should go. 1. I have a build that seems cool. 2. Can other players try this out? 3. What did you learn from this build, can you make it better?
As opposed to the popular 1. I have an unbeatable build. 2. Everyone theorycraft about it 3. Start calling each other out 4. Degraded the value of the idea
Again, mad props to the participants to a great thread!
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I played quite a few games against high-level friends using this. I think it only really "works" against 2 gate robo and FE zerg who scouts late. Against 2 gate robo it is close, your push won't do much damage, but rather secure your expo. That's what happened in all my TvP games. I couldn't break but I had an expo and 1 BC and he didn't have an expo (all my marines died).
I'm going to play a ton more, but the timing is essential. Against the 2-gate robo my BC came out JUST in time to stop the 1 immortal push. Like as soon as they hit my ramp it popped.
Also I disagree about the strength not being in the follow-through.
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Alright, I watched Cytokinesis' replay. He gets the BC out 20 seconds earlier (which he says is a pretty critical 20 seconds, right when an immortal push should hit). At that same time, he has 26 SCVs (same as me) and 9 marines (3 less than me).
I have an extra barracks, he has a command center. I found that I can afford a CC as well with the second barracks but I personally prefer to go all-in (since even with an expo, you're kinda boned anyway with the 6 pulled scvs and the slight scv cutting throughout the build).
Personally I think I like my way a bit more but that's just a preference thing. I'll make sure to include Cyto's in the OP so that people can choose for themselves. :D
Edit: Cytokinesis, I swear you had briefly outlined what you did in a post on here before. Did you edit it or am I blind? I'll just have to extract your build myself if I'm just remembering you saying it earlier wrong. T_T
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On September 05 2010 16:27 Cytokinesis wrote:
I played quite a few games against high-level friends using this. I think it only really "works" against 2 gate robo and FE zerg who scouts late. Against 2 gate robo it is close, your push won't do much damage, but rather secure your expo. That's what happened in all my TvP games. I couldn't break but I had an expo and 1 BC and he didn't have an expo (all my marines died).
I'm going to play a ton more, but the timing is essential. Against the 2-gate robo my BC came out JUST in time to stop the 1 immortal push. Like as soon as they hit my ramp it popped.
Also I disagree about the strength not being in the follow-through.
I am curious about your opinion about robo timings. Are you talking about head on engagements, or being able to defend with marine/bunker? Since no robo units shoots air seeing a robo should be a good thing. The more immortals/col/obs they make the bigger timing window you have to do some damage.
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On September 06 2010 00:55 zomgtossrush wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2010 16:27 Cytokinesis wrote:
I played quite a few games against high-level friends using this. I think it only really "works" against 2 gate robo and FE zerg who scouts late. Against 2 gate robo it is close, your push won't do much damage, but rather secure your expo. That's what happened in all my TvP games. I couldn't break but I had an expo and 1 BC and he didn't have an expo (all my marines died).
I'm going to play a ton more, but the timing is essential. Against the 2-gate robo my BC came out JUST in time to stop the 1 immortal push. Like as soon as they hit my ramp it popped.
Also I disagree about the strength not being in the follow-through. I am curious about your opinion about robo timings. Are you talking about head on engagements, or being able to defend with marine/bunker? Since no robo units shoots air seeing a robo should be a good thing. The more immortals/col/obs they make the bigger timing window you have to do some damage.
I imagine you would have to scout to see if an immortal push is on its way so you can be ready to repair ASAP. Your bunker will just fall really fast otherwise.
Similarly, I'm curious if collosus with range could get to you before the BC and bust down the bunker. Something to be tested I guess.
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I tried this out in two games and won, both of my opponents went random but ended up being TvZ.
I consistently cued my BCs around the 6:40ish mark, with no delays in build order to Fusion Core. However, I can see this being problematic against a cheese play like cannon rush or reapers. I scouted out my opponents at 10 or 11 supply though, just to make sure they weren't going for a 6 pool, and walled off before they could scout my main to hide the BC tech.
However, both games ended up being a base race, with me floating off my buildings when they would rush into my base with mutas or nydus worm.
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Yeah Bibbit it is definitely a preference thing I like yours because I feel it is safer, so I think it would be more useful in TvZ.
As far as robo timings, literally as soon as they hit my ramp on steppes with a 1 immortal timing push my BC popped out. If it wasn't for that BC I would have died even repairing bunker. So if it is on a different map you can expect to meet them during your push, or a base trade if you don't meet them.
Also it isn't possible to get collosus with range BEFORE the BC. But it is possible to get one as your BC pops (on short rush maps). Also as far as observer goes by the time an obs pops out in a standard build it will be too late to throw down a stargate and will only be able to get 1-2 extra stalkers if he throws down reactionary gates.
Also I did have the thing written down then I edited post xD It is:
11 gas
12 rax (cut one scv for a 12--you can get 13 if you feel it's safe enough)
16 fac (or the instant your rax finishes)
2nd gas when factory is half-done
19 starport
24 fusion core
29 BC
41 CC
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On September 06 2010 05:22 Cytokinesis wrote:Yeah Bibbit it is definitely a preference thing I like yours because I feel it is safer, so I think it would be more useful in TvZ. As far as robo timings, literally as soon as they hit my ramp on steppes with a 1 immortal timing push my BC popped out. If it wasn't for that BC I would have died even repairing bunker. So if it is on a different map you can expect to meet them during your push, or a base trade if you don't meet them. Also it isn't possible to get collosus with range BEFORE the BC. But it is possible to get one as your BC pops (on short rush maps). Also as far as observer goes by the time an obs pops out in a standard build it will be too late to throw down a stargate and will only be able to get 1-2 extra stalkers if he throws down reactionary gates. Also I did have the thing written down then I edited post xD It is: 11 gas 12 rax (cut one scv for a 12--you can get 13 if you feel it's safe enough) 16 fac (or the instant your rax finishes) 2nd gas when factory is half-done 19 starport 24 fusion core 29 BC 41 CC
Good stuff. Edited it into OP in the BO section with a brief description. If there's anything else you want to say, just say so.
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Guys, great effort and all, but you do realize that BC ground damage is being nerfed by 20% in the next patch, which will go into effect in just a few days? Even now, this strat is just barely viable vs very specific builds, and it's not exactly something you can transition out of...
I would look into incorporating this build with iEchoic's TvP hellion drop into marine banshee into BC build that's floating around here somewhere.
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Ok first off I'm new to TL. This kind of thread is what I was hoping TL would be like.
As to the build I've got it to work against some higher level friends. To be precise 2 out of three tries. I need to work on my timing a bit. I have had some experience with a similar thor rush build and was able to adapt to this one fairly well. I think Cytokinesis's bo is pretty solid. Even though this is a all out bo starting your expo after bc is a relevent play. Even if the rush fails having the expo by the time your bc reaches your opponets base should allow you enough minerals to transistion into something else if your rush is thwarted. Unless however you end up trading bases.
Definatly a worthwhile build. Thanks for sharing it.
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I'm a Z player myself (even if it is tempting to play T just for BC rushing some in his face I wouldn't actually try it myself because I wouldn't be able to execute it very well) but I have to say damn this thread rocks!
I watched the replays and read every post just because I really like how the build evolved within a few posts. Would love if some of the zerg BO threads would go that way...
@Topic: I can see this being actually valid in high level TvP. If you look at the current 4gate compositions most players won't get enough stalkers to kill a BC with scv support. I would work with Cyto's build though because I don't like all-ins myself and I really think every terran should expand with his first push. Against zerg I wouldn't recommend that build because most zerg players will have a baneling nest pretty soon against T and that kinda messes up the whole push.
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On September 06 2010 13:18 petelectro wrote:
I'm a Z player myself (even if it is tempting to play T just for BC rushing some in his face I wouldn't actually try it myself because I wouldn't be able to execute it very well) but I have to say damn this thread rocks!
I watched the replays and read every post just because I really like how the build evolved within a few posts. Would love if some of the zerg BO threads would go that way...
@Topic: I can see this being actually valid in high level TvP. If you look at the current 4gate compositions most players won't get enough stalkers to kill a BC with scv support. I would work with Cyto's build though because I don't like all-ins myself and I really think every terran should expand with his first push. Against zerg I wouldn't recommend that build because most zerg players will have a baneling nest pretty soon against T and that kinda messes up the whole push.
Yeah, it's definitely best vs Toss. Most protoss builds (short of the 4 gate with a lot of stalkers) just can't fuck with marine/battlecruiser that well.
Another problem vs zerg is mutalisks. Battlecruiser AA is not that great and the marines can often be insufficient if zerglings or banelings accompany the mutas. Vs zerg I'm leaning more towards my way because the extra marines + second barracks almost seem needed.
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I love the idea, it reminds me of those fast Marine-Thor pushes. Too bad they're nerfing BC air-to-ground...
I'm worried how this would deal with zling/bling or infestors killing your marines along with spire tech. obviously marines + BCs can fend off Zerg air easily, but if the Marines are dead, what then? Same goes for some kind of fast VR w/ zealot/sentry, or Vikings with tanks to kill marines.
I'll definitely try this out sometime. It sounds awesome.
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On September 06 2010 13:51 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 13:18 petelectro wrote:
I'm a Z player myself (even if it is tempting to play T just for BC rushing some in his face I wouldn't actually try it myself because I wouldn't be able to execute it very well) but I have to say damn this thread rocks!
I watched the replays and read every post just because I really like how the build evolved within a few posts. Would love if some of the zerg BO threads would go that way...
@Topic: I can see this being actually valid in high level TvP. If you look at the current 4gate compositions most players won't get enough stalkers to kill a BC with scv support. I would work with Cyto's build though because I don't like all-ins myself and I really think every terran should expand with his first push. Against zerg I wouldn't recommend that build because most zerg players will have a baneling nest pretty soon against T and that kinda messes up the whole push. Yeah, it's definitely best vs Toss. Most protoss builds (short of the 4 gate with a lot of stalkers) just can't fuck with marine/battlecruiser that well. Another problem vs zerg is mutalisks. Battlecruiser AA is not that great and the marines can often be insufficient if zerglings or banelings accompany the mutas. Vs zerg I'm leaning more towards my way because the extra marines + second barracks almost seem needed.
your right about the extra marines and with the extra rax. Will def strengthen your initial push and could open up more options for transition into something else if the push fails, possibly thors if you swapped the factory to the tech lab or even try to leap frog some tanks across the map. I guess its just my nature or style to leave room for transition to counter an opponent . This bo I think has great potential and could be tweeked to be useful vs t and z. I will mess around with it some more post some replays.
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On September 06 2010 07:23 Shaithis wrote:
Guys, great effort and all, but you do realize that BC ground damage is being nerfed by 20% in the next patch, which will go into effect in just a few days? Even now, this strat is just barely viable vs very specific builds, and it's not exactly something you can transition out of...
I would look into incorporating this build with iEchoic's TvP hellion drop into marine banshee into BC build that's floating around here somewhere.
Boo, theorycrafting. 10-8 damage isn't a huge blow, considering ur marines are still do the majority of the DPS. The bc is mainly just there to ensure your marines stay alive and tank stalker hits, and to counter any non-stalker units.
I don't even want to try this against a solid z player since a bling bust seems so easy to break this build(as i do a ton when i dice a zvt)
TvT again is iffy due to fast viking builds, and marines have much higher dps than stalkes in mass groups.
TvP seems the most viable out of the matchups. Still sorta tweaking the build to fit my style, but liking it so far.
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thank god for incoming bc nerf, muhahaha
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I just saw an altered version of this in the GSL games and a few times in some streams today. Getting pretty popular among the higher ups apparently.
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Augustwerra just did it in the GSL. Hi-larious! So weird to see a bc pop out all of a sudden
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yeah I saw it too! Also against baneling bust you can wall off the bottom of your ramp with Rax+fac
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Maybe save up some energy on your CC and drop mules down right before the BC gets to there base?
make the build less all-in ish
maybe early yamoto cannon (i can't remmeber if thats the right name) to deal with problem units or a prottoss who cannons up or spore crawlers
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On September 06 2010 20:53 Fyro wrote:
Maybe save up some energy on your CC and drop mules down right before the BC gets to there base?
make the build less all-in ish
maybe early yamoto cannon (i can't remmeber if thats the right name) to deal with problem units or a prottoss who cannons up or spore crawlers
i think the initial build is a all in build but i like this point you bring up. A weapons refit as soon as you have enough minerals would be nice for problem units. With this bo you have lots of gas if you dont take your scvs off gas and back to mining. (which is what i have been doing) Ive been toying with the mule drops and the FE soon as bc pops out too just so its not so all in like you said. With a weapons refit though that means less marines and also if you add in the FE your initial push with the bc may not be strong enough to break the other player.
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just had this done to me.. stalkers are just so pathetic against battlecruisers....
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On September 06 2010 21:06 PulseSUI wrote:just had this done to me.. stalkers are just so pathetic against battlecruisers....
Don't complain, you should see how well hydra's fare against this build. It's demoralizing.
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Wow, definitely will try this on my noob friends, tyvm sir
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Good thing the zerg player you were playing was completely terrible. "Oh let's make two lairs and just mass roaches that'll probably help"
edit: the Protoss was awful as well. I can only see this working in maybe plat. Are you sure you are diamond? You are playing some bad players.
Cute build I guess but won't work against any competent player.
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[B]On September 04 2010 14:19 Bibbit wrote
I guess the biggest thing to remember is: Do whatever the hell you want. You rushed a battlecruiser. Even if you lose horribly, you're still awesome.
Quote of the Day.
I love the guide BTW. Even for the most straight foward, safe Terran players this would be a nice strat to have in your arsenal. Bust it out on game 4 of a best of 7 and completely throw your opponent off.
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I found this strategy nice fun. 1st game i caught a terran off guard going for maradeurs (i made sure he did not scout it). 2nd game vs toss, he had a 3gate and hes army was mainly zealatos/stalkers. Was a easy win. Played diamond 500p.
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On September 06 2010 23:31 Uhh Negative wrote:
Good thing the zerg player you were playing was completely terrible. "Oh let's make two lairs and just mass roaches that'll probably help"
edit: the Protoss was awful as well. I can only see this working in maybe plat. Are you sure you are diamond? You are playing some bad players.
Cute build I guess but won't work against any competent player.
Bashing it without any support other than "your opponent is horrible" which is an opinion btw does not help this thread and only labels you as a troll.
What would you define as 'competent'? There are a few players in this thread (as well as OP) that are in diamond. Even my practice partner hu's 900 points diamond said he's lost to this on ladder and is still not sure what to do against it.
EDIT: Would Tester be competent enough for you?
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On September 07 2010 01:13 me_viet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 23:31 Uhh Negative wrote:
Good thing the zerg player you were playing was completely terrible. "Oh let's make two lairs and just mass roaches that'll probably help"
edit: the Protoss was awful as well. I can only see this working in maybe plat. Are you sure you are diamond? You are playing some bad players.
Cute build I guess but won't work against any competent player. Bashing it without any support other than "your opponent is horrible" which is an opinion btw does not help this thread and only labels you as a troll. What would you define as 'competent'? There are a few players in this thread (as well as OP) that are in diamond. Even my practice partner hu's 900 points diamond said he's lost to this on ladder and is still not sure what to do against it. EDIT: Would Tester be competent enough for you?
You're all scrubs. Tester is terrible. He lost to IdrA who has never qualified for OSL Ro32, let alone Ro16.
Obviously.
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How do you defend this as Protoss? I mean, even if you know they are going this, there isn't even much in terms of unit composition that you can get to actually beat it. The BC gets near your base around 8mins in, this really doesn't give much room to tech hard or mass a decent army.
Going for Voidrays gets countered by a marine heavy army and going Stalker heavy gets countered by a Marauder heavy army, Phoenixes are worthless and Sentries likewise...
Anyone have any ideas?
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if you want to rush a BC (besides being a pretty shite build imo, better to just rush thor with scvs) you should skip the normal OC and opt for very fast gas. gas is the limiting factor, so you need to get it as soon as possible.
still i tried this strat several times for fun, and it takes too long to be effective unless you're against a deadbeat opponent.
edit: when i tested a similar build, i didn't discriminate against T, Z or P, but upon further reading i can see how its a decent build against protoss who doesn't rush VR. you can kill like 5 stalkers with 1 BC on repair. then when that 2nd BC comes out, its gg.
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On September 07 2010 01:48 bulge wrote:
if you want to rush a BC (besides being a pretty shite build imo, better to just rush thor with scvs) you should skip the normal OC and opt for very fast gas. gas is the limiting factor, so you need to get it as soon as possible.
still i tried this strat several times for fun, and it takes too long to be effective unless you're against a deadbeat opponent.
you didn't watch the gsl today, right?
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On September 06 2010 16:19 zomgtossrush wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 07:23 Shaithis wrote:
Guys, great effort and all, but you do realize that BC ground damage is being nerfed by 20% in the next patch, which will go into effect in just a few days? Even now, this strat is just barely viable vs very specific builds, and it's not exactly something you can transition out of...
I would look into incorporating this build with iEchoic's TvP hellion drop into marine banshee into BC build that's floating around here somewhere. Boo, theorycrafting. 10-8 damage isn't a huge blow, considering ur marines are still do the majority of the DPS. The bc is mainly just there to ensure your marines stay alive and tank stalker hits, and to counter any non-stalker units. I don't even want to try this against a solid z player since a bling bust seems so easy to break this build(as i do a ton when i dice a zvt) TvT again is iffy due to fast viking builds, and marines have much higher dps than stalkes in mass groups. TvP seems the most viable out of the matchups. Still sorta tweaking the build to fit my style, but liking it so far.
10-8 damage is not a huge blow? Just making a silly statement like that tells everyone that you know jack about this game.
Consider this; at present, BCs are just about even with stalkers cost-for-cost; 1 BC can kill 5 stalkers and 5 stalkers cost just about as much as 1 BC.
With the patch, the 20% damage reduction means that, in the case of 1 BC vs 5 stalkers, it takes the BC 20% longer to kill the first stalker (to drop incoming damage). This means that BCs are no longer even in cost with stalkers, and with good micro, the Protoss may even be able to get away with 2 surviving stalkers in the 5 stalkers vc BC skirmish. Considering that marines are terrible vs stalkers, 1-2 rounds of stalker warpins ends your all-in push.
This is not theorycraft, it is game mechanics.
On September 07 2010 01:37 Emperor_Earth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:13 me_viet wrote:On September 06 2010 23:31 Uhh Negative wrote:
Good thing the zerg player you were playing was completely terrible. "Oh let's make two lairs and just mass roaches that'll probably help"
edit: the Protoss was awful as well. I can only see this working in maybe plat. Are you sure you are diamond? You are playing some bad players.
Cute build I guess but won't work against any competent player. Bashing it without any support other than "your opponent is horrible" which is an opinion btw does not help this thread and only labels you as a troll. What would you define as 'competent'? There are a few players in this thread (as well as OP) that are in diamond. Even my practice partner hu's 900 points diamond said he's lost to this on ladder and is still not sure what to do against it. EDIT: Would Tester be competent enough for you? You're all scrubs. Tester is terrible. He lost to IdrA who has never qualified for OSL Ro32, let alone Ro16. Obviously.
You're just a moron, have fun getting banned for being a waste of space.
On September 07 2010 01:54 petelectro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:48 bulge wrote:
if you want to rush a BC (besides being a pretty shite build imo, better to just rush thor with scvs) you should skip the normal OC and opt for very fast gas. gas is the limiting factor, so you need to get it as soon as possible.
still i tried this strat several times for fun, and it takes too long to be effective unless you're against a deadbeat opponent. you didn't watch the gsl today, right?
Here's a protip; just because it worked in a tournament does not mean that it's a good idea for ladder. Anyone remember Cauthonluck's 11 starport vs Idra back in beta? Did it work? Yes. Did it make him cry? Yep. Is it viable on ladder? No. Why? Expectation of cheese is generally much lower in tournaments than on ladder, lack of time to develop counters, and most importantly, your opponents will be much more likely to recognize your build after seeing it in a high-profile tournament (as in, 11-starport's VERY early rax/factory walloff with no supply depots in sight).
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Actually if you follow up with an expansion I don't consider this cheese but an solid opening push. Yeah you bring a couple of scvs with you but if you kill enough eco and army with the push you got the mule advantage after that.
I know that it doesn't mean a lot that it worked in a tournement situation but two times in a row against a solid ogs toss? It definitely doesn't mean nothing.
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On September 07 2010 02:17 Shaithis wrote:
Consider this; at present, BCs are just about even with stalkers cost-for-cost; 1 BC can kill 5 stalkers and 5 stalkers cost just about as much as 1 BC.
1BC = 400/300, 5 Stalkers = 625/250. I know gas is more valuable but come on.
With the patch, the 20% damage reduction means that, in the case of 1 BC vs 5 stalkers, it takes the BC 20% longer to kill the first stalker (to drop incoming damage). This means that BCs are no longer even in cost with stalkers, and with good micro, the Protoss may even be able to get away with 2 surviving stalkers in the 5 stalkers vc BC skirmish. Considering that marines are terrible vs stalkers, 1-2 rounds of stalker warpins ends your all-in push.
Have you tested what happens? Should be simple enough..
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oh god, a pro lost to this now everyone is going to start crying, as well as let the carbon copying on bnet begin!
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hmmmmmm whats this about a pro getting owned with this strat ? DO TELL!
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On September 07 2010 02:47 avilo wrote:
oh god, a pro lost to this now everyone is going to start crying, as well as let the carbon copying on bnet begin!
But now all the people who saw this thread before get to feel cool because "I was doing it before it was popular." 
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Zealot+sentry+voidray should deal with this, between zealots and forcefield people tend to underestimate how difficult it can be to effectively focus fire the voids. Yes terran can pull the BC back to try and draw the VRs forward but if they do it's no longer doing its job of tanking damage.
Honestly the most annoying thing about dealing with terran starport/techlab openings as protoss is that it's difficult to tell whether they are researching cloak unless you spotted a fusion core, typically resulting in protoss wasting resources on detection if they didn't research cloak.
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On September 07 2010 08:10 Cerion wrote:
Zealot+sentry+voidray should deal with this, between zealots and forcefield people tend to underestimate how difficult it can be to effectively focus fire the voids. Yes terran can pull the BC back to try and draw the VRs forward but if they do it's no longer doing its job of tanking damage.
Honestly the most annoying thing about dealing with terran starport/techlab openings as protoss is that it's difficult to tell whether they are researching cloak unless you spotted a fusion core, typically resulting in protoss wasting resources on detection if they didn't research cloak.
I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding you here, but you havent needed Fusion Core for cloak since like the 3rd week of the beta or some shit. :/
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On September 07 2010 08:31 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:10 Cerion wrote:
Zealot+sentry+voidray should deal with this, between zealots and forcefield people tend to underestimate how difficult it can be to effectively focus fire the voids. Yes terran can pull the BC back to try and draw the VRs forward but if they do it's no longer doing its job of tanking damage.
Honestly the most annoying thing about dealing with terran starport/techlab openings as protoss is that it's difficult to tell whether they are researching cloak unless you spotted a fusion core, typically resulting in protoss wasting resources on detection if they didn't research cloak. I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding you here, but you havent needed Fusion Core for cloak since like the 3rd week of the beta or some shit. :/
I mean that a fusion core is a clear sign that terran is BC rushing as opposed to going cloaked banshees, so protoss doesn't need detection yet
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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I should think that some people might want to go back and edit their "this would never work on a good player" comments since it clearly worked TWICE against the same pro player. One who is a legend.
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The AugustWeRRa build is indeed strong. Basically opens up with a reactor and tech lab and marauder slow. Forces the protoss to get some formidable anti ground, while teching to a BC at the same time. Ends up going all-in with a few marauders marines scvs and 1 BC. BC tanks all the hits while the scvs repair.
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On September 07 2010 02:17 Shaithis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 16:19 zomgtossrush wrote:On September 06 2010 07:23 Shaithis wrote:
Guys, great effort and all, but you do realize that BC ground damage is being nerfed by 20% in the next patch, which will go into effect in just a few days? Even now, this strat is just barely viable vs very specific builds, and it's not exactly something you can transition out of...
I would look into incorporating this build with iEchoic's TvP hellion drop into marine banshee into BC build that's floating around here somewhere. Boo, theorycrafting. 10-8 damage isn't a huge blow, considering ur marines are still do the majority of the DPS. The bc is mainly just there to ensure your marines stay alive and tank stalker hits, and to counter any non-stalker units. I don't even want to try this against a solid z player since a bling bust seems so easy to break this build(as i do a ton when i dice a zvt) TvT again is iffy due to fast viking builds, and marines have much higher dps than stalkes in mass groups. TvP seems the most viable out of the matchups. Still sorta tweaking the build to fit my style, but liking it so far. 10-8 damage is not a huge blow? Just making a silly statement like that tells everyone that you know jack about this game. Consider this; at present, BCs are just about even with stalkers cost-for-cost; 1 BC can kill 5 stalkers and 5 stalkers cost just about as much as 1 BC. With the patch, the 20% damage reduction means that, in the case of 1 BC vs 5 stalkers, it takes the BC 20% longer to kill the first stalker (to drop incoming damage). This means that BCs are no longer even in cost with stalkers, and with good micro, the Protoss may even be able to get away with 2 surviving stalkers in the 5 stalkers vc BC skirmish. Considering that marines are terrible vs stalkers, 1-2 rounds of stalker warpins ends your all-in push. This is not theorycraft, it is game mechanics. Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:37 Emperor_Earth wrote:On September 07 2010 01:13 me_viet wrote:On September 06 2010 23:31 Uhh Negative wrote:
Good thing the zerg player you were playing was completely terrible. "Oh let's make two lairs and just mass roaches that'll probably help"
edit: the Protoss was awful as well. I can only see this working in maybe plat. Are you sure you are diamond? You are playing some bad players.
Cute build I guess but won't work against any competent player. Bashing it without any support other than "your opponent is horrible" which is an opinion btw does not help this thread and only labels you as a troll. What would you define as 'competent'? There are a few players in this thread (as well as OP) that are in diamond. Even my practice partner hu's 900 points diamond said he's lost to this on ladder and is still not sure what to do against it. EDIT: Would Tester be competent enough for you? You're all scrubs. Tester is terrible. He lost to IdrA who has never qualified for OSL Ro32, let alone Ro16. Obviously. You're just a moron, have fun getting banned for being a waste of space. Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:54 petelectro wrote:On September 07 2010 01:48 bulge wrote:
if you want to rush a BC (besides being a pretty shite build imo, better to just rush thor with scvs) you should skip the normal OC and opt for very fast gas. gas is the limiting factor, so you need to get it as soon as possible.
still i tried this strat several times for fun, and it takes too long to be effective unless you're against a deadbeat opponent. you didn't watch the gsl today, right? Here's a protip; just because it worked in a tournament does not mean that it's a good idea for ladder. Anyone remember Cauthonluck's 11 starport vs Idra back in beta? Did it work? Yes. Did it make him cry? Yep. Is it viable on ladder? No. Why? Expectation of cheese is generally much lower in tournaments than on ladder, lack of time to develop counters, and most importantly, your opponents will be much more likely to recognize your build after seeing it in a high-profile tournament (as in, 11-starport's VERY early rax/factory walloff with no supply depots in sight).
When you share your opinions try not to be so angry. Relax.
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TBH, that made me shed tiny Terran tears... WP though.
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Anyone have any ideas on how to beat this as Protoss? Terrans in the ladder are starting to hide their Fusion Core around the map, the BC gets to your base around 8-9mins in, and the fusion core goes down at around 5-6mins, you just can't prepare in 2-3mins even if you catch the fusion core starting.
This is so ridiculous, doesn't even matter if you have 10-15 stalkers, the MM ball snaps them in two while the BC constantly gets repaired....
Does ANYONE have a replay where they have successfully managed to defend this?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 07 2010 12:23 Antisocialmunky wrote:TBH, that made me shed tiny Terran tears... WP though.
Welcome to the SEA server, where 99% of Terrans plays terribly
On September 07 2010 12:59 Dommk wrote:
Anyone have any ideas on how to beat this as Protoss? Terrans in the ladder are starting to hide their Fusion Core around the map, the BC gets to your base around 8-9mins in, and the fusion core goes down at around 5-6mins, you just can't prepare in 2-3mins even if you catch the fusion core starting.
This is so ridiculous, doesn't even matter if you have 10-15 stalkers, the MM ball snaps them in two while the BC constantly gets repaired....
Does ANYONE have a replay where they have successfully managed to defend this?
Try to use forcefields to wall out his SCVs and try drag his BC out so that it is exposed - then snipe it while he scrambles back to the SCVs behind the FF. It's tough, but it's doable.
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I tried this against a protoss friend several games. Blink stalkers counters this build quite effectively, as he can abuse the shields of the stalkers to wear down marines, and forces my BC to stop and engage, which prolongs the time to his base, while he masses more stalkers to overcome my pushing force. Best scenario vs mass stalkers is trading armies, which put me in a major disadvantage since I lost most of my workers
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I've seen Koreans do this - Tester got beaten by one of his clannies by a proxy battle-cruiser rush on Metalopolis.
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Try to use forcefields to wall out his SCVs and try drag his BC out so that it is exposed - then snipe it while he scrambles back to the SCVs behind the FF. It's tough, but it's doable.
Yeah the late 12-13min Battle Cruisers that works pretty well, but the ones that rush it by 8-9min is driving me nuts, I just don't have the army composition to deal with the MM and the BC... Any ideas?
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THIS BUILD IS AMAZING
Just did it in a custom game. 1 BC + 14~ marines + a buttload of scv repair annhilated a toss army of 7~ stalkers and about as many zeals. He eventually fended off my lone BC but died to BC + Marauder followup.
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Does this strat lose out against super fast VR cheese?
I always go fast banshee against Toss but one time this guy sent in his VR at 6~7min game time and I had like only 3 marines which was instant gg.
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Personally seems like a great build for fun but I think almost everyone in beta figured out how to bc/carrier/mothership rush. Play some 3v3/4v4 and I bet ull play someone that has perfected that build already. It just goes to show how much time u wasted on how to perfect somethin that will never work unless ur in teams or in a 1v1 goin against someone that completely neglects scouting or being aggressive (bronze-gold) Y dont u spend some time on PvP and how to completely nullify an opponents 4 warpgate all-ins so mayb toss might do somethin different more often? Or a new strat where zerg can finally fast expand and still hold off all-ins? That would b a strat worth writing a 4 page essay on. Im not tryn to b completely rude, I just feel like uve figured out how do somethin thats already been done...but mayb ur the first person intelligent enough to write it all down to share to the masses and if so, congrats. Mayb I should figure out how to do a completely smooth, well timed, using resources perfectly, carrier or mothership rush...oh yeah wait, its been done before too. What I would really like to c is toss learning how to not rush for the warpgates but get hullucination and make that the new standard...actually Ive been workin a great deal on this build and its almost time to release it...just need to work out a couple more kinks  Thx for reading and plz everyone try bizarre builds cuz it might become the next new standard. (Tier 3 rush isnt viable, everyone wants somethin thats flexible, not lucky, thats how to b a true boss)
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On September 07 2010 14:21 BigFatRoAcH wrote:
Does this strat lose out against super fast VR cheese?
I always go fast banshee against Toss but one time this guy sent in his VR at 6~7min game time and I had like only 3 marines which was instant gg.
3 marines? Don't be tempted to cut marines when doing 111 type builds, keep up production from your barracks or you'll get killed
(also don't call fast VRs cheesy when you're banshee rushing yourself, lol)
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some korean guy did this against an oGS player in the GSL on day 2, TvP
i dont know much about them but apparently it was a pretty big upset, the toss loss to it twice in a row
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Hyrule19026 Posts
AugustWeRRa did this first I believe, only he used a different composition. There were also 2 games (in a row lol) on GSL day 2 where AugustWeRRa BC rushed oGsLeader.
Basically it's:
orbital opening
16 second gas
Pump Marauders (Firebears ftw)
Upgrade Concussive Shells and Stim
When Factory finishes, pump Hellions
Stargate when Factory finishes
Tech Lab on Stargate, Fusion Core
Pull SCVs (6-8) and move out around 70 food. BCs can tank everything. Focus Sentries, VRs, and then Phoenixes. Win.
You can either drop an expansion or make a second BC when you move out.
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Im silver league and today I beat a number 1 ranked Platinum player with this build. I believe it illustrates the power of BCs at lower tier games
[url blocked]
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On September 07 2010 14:40 SARgeant47 wrote:Personally seems like a great build for fun but I think almost everyone in beta figured out how to bc/carrier/mothership rush. Play some 3v3/4v4 and I bet ull play someone that has perfected that build already. It just goes to show how much time u wasted on how to perfect somethin that will never work unless ur in teams or in a 1v1 goin against someone that completely neglects scouting or being aggressive (bronze-gold) Y dont u spend some time on PvP and how to completely nullify an opponents 4 warpgate all-ins so mayb toss might do somethin different more often? Or a new strat where zerg can finally fast expand and still hold off all-ins? That would b a strat worth writing a 4 page essay on. Im not tryn to b completely rude, I just feel like uve figured out how do somethin thats already been done...but mayb ur the first person intelligent enough to write it all down to share to the masses and if so, congrats. Mayb I should figure out how to do a completely smooth, well timed, using resources perfectly, carrier or mothership rush...oh yeah wait, its been done before too. What I would really like to c is toss learning how to not rush for the warpgates but get hullucination and make that the new standard...actually Ive been workin a great deal on this build and its almost time to release it...just need to work out a couple more kinks Thx for reading and plz everyone try bizarre builds cuz it might become the next new standard. (Tier 3 rush isnt viable, everyone wants somethin thats flexible, not lucky, thats how to b a true boss)
Cool story but top diamond people lose to this as well from what I have seen.
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Will this build get too crippled by the 20% damage nerf incoming?
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K just tested:
1 BC loses to 5 stalkers, with the last stalker at 100%.
1 BC owns 4 stalkers, cruiser on ~150 HP.
1 BC with the nerf STILL wins versus 4 stalkers, but only has 20-40 HP left.
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Hey Bibbit, I was looking through old replays and came across a replay of you where you BC rushed with SCVs to repair.
I can send you the replay if you want to add it to your archive.
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On September 08 2010 12:30 DaemonX wrote:
Will this build get too crippled by the 20% damage nerf incoming?
Of course the BC will mostly atack ground wuth this build and with that reduction the power of the build will go down
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On September 08 2010 13:00 JohnRee wrote:
Hey Bibbit, I was looking through old replays and came across a replay of you where you BC rushed with SCVs to repair.
I can send you the replay if you want to add it to your archive.
That depends on if I got rolled in a non-instructive manner. It's one thing if I lose horribly in a way that will help show something about the build but if I just lay down and die, its not gonna be a good replay. :/
Send anyway I guess. :D
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On September 08 2010 13:21 checo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 12:30 DaemonX wrote:
Will this build get too crippled by the 20% damage nerf incoming? Of course the BC will mostly atack ground wuth this build and with that reduction the power of the build will go down
I don't think the damage nerf will ruin this build. As stated before, the main strength of the BC is its ability to tank (550 HP, 3 Armor, SCV repair), give high ground visibility (Sight Range 12) and to snipe problematic units (sentries). The high ground DPS is important, but its not the key factor for this build.
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This doesn't work, even when I achieved to get 1st BC on min 6:30. I tested it on high platinum and wins were 2/10.
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On September 12 2010 06:55 Ivanero wrote:
This doesn't work. I tested it on high platinum and wins were 2/10.
You're probably doing it wrong. You're not rushing for BCs to the point you stop production of everything else. You should be constantly making ground troops. I've never laddered before as Terran (1300 Diamond Protoss player) and I beat two Protoss players at that rating using this strat.
The BC has decent damage, but it's primary goal in this strat is to serve as the tank (MMORPG term) so the nerf won't affect the strat too much.
Once again, they need to change attack priorities for repairing scvs and PFs.
The best counter I've had against this build is 3 gate robo. You only need 1 Collossus, rest should be regular Gateway unit mix.
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On September 12 2010 06:55 Ivanero wrote:
This doesn't work, even when I achieved to get 1st BC on min 6:30. I tested it on high platinum and wins were 2/10.
I think you're pretty clearly doing something horribly wrong because we've had quite a number of higher level people in this thread having success with it. Why don't you post up a replay or two and we'll try to figure out the problem? You seem to be getting the BC out on time but something is very clearly not going right.
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On September 07 2010 11:33 out4blood wrote:
I should think that some people might want to go back and edit their "this would never work on a good player" comments since it clearly worked TWICE against the same pro player. One who is a legend.
The same pro player. One who is a legend.
Does he have a split personality?
Just joking
I have tried this just this strategy just on comps so far to get my timing down. The fastest I got a BC out was at 8:14.
Tried on a ladder match on Lost Temple. Early scout showed a forge and and a gateway in front of his/her natural expansion. Since I though there would be cannons, I just expanded quick and pumped out BCs. Eventually I was beaten cause I did not scout again because I though pumping BCs and marines would kill what ever he sent with enough left over and producing to counter.
Didn't work as I planned .
He sent his army in at about 150 supply. He had 3 col. and the rest stalkers (I was expecting air). It was close, but in the end he still had a colossus and a few stalkers remaining and he was able to gate reinforcements in quickly.
That is what I get for lack of scouting.
On a side note, after watching the video, I saw that after the first BC came out he only had 1 cannon down and was teching fast. (Read the line above).
Cheers
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On September 07 2010 01:13 me_viet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 23:31 Uhh Negative wrote:
Good thing the zerg player you were playing was completely terrible. "Oh let's make two lairs and just mass roaches that'll probably help"
edit: the Protoss was awful as well. I can only see this working in maybe plat. Are you sure you are diamond? You are playing some bad players.
Cute build I guess but won't work against any competent player. Bashing it without any support other than "your opponent is horrible" which is an opinion btw does not help this thread and only labels you as a troll. What would you define as 'competent'? There are a few players in this thread (as well as OP) that are in diamond. Even my practice partner hu's 900 points diamond said he's lost to this on ladder and is still not sure what to do against it. EDIT: Would Tester be competent enough for you?
Lol did you watch the game? They were not good. I'm 950-1000 diamond and I think I'm garbage. Diamond literally means nothing other than "you kind of know how to play the game". I would classify myself in that category yet I think these kids were bad.
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I would just like to thank the original poster for providing this strategy.
Let me explain:
I play protoss. Of the last 5 PvT games I've played, all of my opponents were attempting to do a BC rush.
They all failed. :D
So yea, thank you lovely terrans for the easy wins. And a note to any terrans wanting to do this: it's definitely not as easy as it seems. Just because there was an upset in the GSL where some pro lost to this strategy, it doesn't make it an epic unbeatable build. Even when my opponents got the BCs out, I didn't have much trouble focusing them down with the stalkers I had accumulated via playing standard. Once they patch the BC, this build will only get worse.
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On September 14 2010 06:50 bentski wrote:
I would just like to thank the original poster for providing this strategy.
Let me explain:
I play protoss. Of the last 5 PvT games I've played, all of my opponents were attempting to do a BC rush.
They all failed. :D
So yea, thank you lovely terrans for the easy wins. And a note to any terrans wanting to do this: it's definitely not as easy as it seems. Just because there was an upset in the GSL where some pro lost to this strategy, it doesn't make it an epic unbeatable build. Even when my opponents got the BCs out, I didn't have much trouble focusing them down with the stalkers I had accumulated via playing standard. Once they patch the BC, this build will only get worse.
What league are you in? Are even sure your opposing t' are doing the build correctly? Replays or it never happened.
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On September 14 2010 06:59 zomgtossrush wrote:
What league are you in? Are even sure your opposing t' are doing the build correctly? Replays or it never happened.
I'm mid-diamond. And I'm positive they're doing the build incorrectly... one guy went engineering bay into PF so that he would defend better before he got the BC out. lol.
I'm not going to bother posting replays because I'm not ripping on the original build, I just wanted to share my experience as a protoss player. Since this post has popped up, it's ridiculous how many people are attempting fast BCs and botching it.
I dunno, I just thought it was kinda funny, but if you're going to be all angry about my post then I'll delete it.
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Fast BCs are useless. Fast BCs with a bunch of repairing SCVs and a lot of marines? That is just horrifying.
Encountered one person trying to do it, but they didn't scan, so I dropped in their back with a lovely force and killed them just before the BC popped (about 10 seconds after they left, it came out)
Another one did it successfully and I just fell over and died.
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Bumping this because of recent Battlecruiser change
Has anyone tried this post-patch yet? There was some argument in the thread about whether the damage nerf would hugely effect this rush. Unfortunately I play zerg exclusively now so I havent gotten to test it yet.
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It can maybe work if it dosnt get scouted, but this is bad against good players.
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Just did this...
Didnt practice it for that long so its not near perfect execution.
Wanted to have a build to make TvZ fun again (my worst matchup)
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F my diamond placement. I see all these fun strats and think how cool it would be to be able to do them to broze and silver.
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On October 27 2010 07:49 Thrawn1324 wrote:
F my diamond placement. I see all these fun strats and think how cool it would be to be able to do them to broze and silver.
Just practice and try to do this build smoothly. It works fine even in diamond for TvP unless you're pretty high diamond. I've gotten the chance to do it post-nerf and it's still not bad. The BC soaks up a lot of damage and gives vision. Its DPS still isnt too bad either.
So just because you're diamond, it doesnt mean you cant have fun. :D
Also, I'll see if I can't scrounge up some new replays for after that BC nerf.
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I do a slight variation where I get fast gas and get both a raven and BC out. Its rather hilarious suffice to say. The PDD prevents close to 300 stalker damage so its like having 1.6 BCs. The raven will chase the obs away or kill it and P will probably think it is some sort of Polt/3-1-2 build. I don't feel that the timing is hurt much because of the PDD and detection.
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Hey, so I'm only diamond, but I gotta say this is still working, maybe better than before. On close by air shattered temple, even with a pretty botched opening, this kicked ass. I sent fewer SCVs with my 'rines, but they were all going to get cleaned up by the roaches, so I should have just kept them home both games. By keeping most of my SCVs home and mining, I could bring out a 2nd BC pretty quickly.
On Tal'darim Alter LE I changed it up (since it's such a big map) and roflstomped.
10 depot
350M Move scv to nat.
400M build CC
150M build Rax at front choke
150M build Rax at front choke
Gas
Bunker when rax is done with a supply (whenever it is needed) for a full wall at the front
I don't recall the timings, but grab your orbitals and factory as soon as you can. After your fac goes down, throw down 3 more gas and fully saturate them ASAP. you'll have mules for minerals, so get those geysers up.
Starport x 3 when Fac is done
Fusion core when first Star is done
3x BCs
I must say that my 3 Starports got scouted (but not the fusion) so he had Mutes and Corrupters up, and was making hydras - but even with all that he got rolled. While my first set of BCs was taking out his initial AA, my 2nd 2 went to join the frey, while I kept any futher ones at home (since he was sending lings and banes to my base which I was having trouble holding as I played some sloppy D.
Shattered Replay
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-213874.jpg)
Tal'darim Replay
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-213875.jpg)
(img looks like shakuras, but it's really Tal'darim)
I think this works so well on Tal'darim because if you don't pressure early, zerg takes the chance to mass expand, and so their AA comes up pretty late, and when you do push, you have 3 BCs which is pretty beefy, especially when you have 2 or 3 more rallying in behind them.
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On September 08 2010 12:40 DaemonX wrote:
K just tested:
1 BC loses to 5 stalkers, with the last stalker at 100%.
1 BC owns 4 stalkers, cruiser on ~150 HP.
1 BC with the nerf STILL wins versus 4 stalkers, but only has 20-40 HP left.
Remember you'll have SCV repairing. 5 SCV repairing 1 BC can still eliminate 8 stalkers.
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This is why I love TL, if I said "I want to see a build that centers around archon drops for harass" then someone would make it, and make it work well.
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I'm pretty sure a particular person commonly does proxy battlecruiser rushes with 5k viewers. Works in Gold league.
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Hi Koibu,
I just watched your Replay against TGDormant. I must say I'm not really impressed. Z basically could have pumped 5 more roaches and counter pushed you. You had no ground army and no defense in your base and one BC takes forever to kill the Z's base. Further he didn't put down a hydra den which also had saved him the game.
I like creative builds and I think the BC rush is an interesting option but I think you should use the BC as support for your ground forces instead of just ralleying it to your opponents base.
If you just killed his expansion while getting up your own then you where maybe ahead even if Z had the right follow up.
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Misleading title! I thought Hot_Bid wrote this yo.
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On June 14 2011 16:28 z00m wrote:
Hi Koibu,
I just watched your Replay against TGDormant. I must say I'm not really impressed. Z basically could have pumped 5 more roaches and counter pushed you. You had no ground army and no defense in your base and one BC takes forever to kill the Z's base. Further he didn't put down a hydra den which also had saved him the game.
I like creative builds and I think the BC rush is an interesting option but I think you should use the BC as support for your ground forces instead of just ralleying it to your opponents base.
If you just killed his expansion while getting up your own then you where maybe ahead even if Z had the right follow up.
Yeah, I played pretty sloppily, but he had too many roaches for my ground army to deal with. Better to attack with the BCs since he only had 2 queens. I should have bunkered up at home since he had so many ground forces, and started an expansion.
So yeah, my play wasn't stellar (welcome to diamond), but to me it looked like it had good potential. You just gotta hide those starports, cuz if they get scouted, 4 queens with good transfuses will destroy a BC, so you gotta hit them when they only have 2 that have depleted energy from injects.
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Just got utterly raped with this build against toss would magically did a 4 gate. lolcats
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Heh, didn't expect to see this thing again. TT
I would like to make it clear I know longer am concerned with this thing being shitty. I dont even play that race anymore! :D
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EPT![[image loading]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/C1bVYX88MEG9svSShvIyi1AD44Pp5WzQHujgRi5Dp87FdOd55KQM_HknKVX6VFB6mZhWXKmHJ9-sUy-7OkqCj0XwPg=s512)
![[image loading]](https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/4AsaIP_JR2s0kswxhj-UTamnRC_W_WGyF4oAQ5LdoSHdZWKHaW9grG5y4fk6xuEcWI2d6NpnKICqnqrtVfxXlt6hrA=s512)
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![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-160838.jpg)
