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On September 07 2010 01:13 me_viet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 23:31 Uhh Negative wrote:
Good thing the zerg player you were playing was completely terrible. "Oh let's make two lairs and just mass roaches that'll probably help"
edit: the Protoss was awful as well. I can only see this working in maybe plat. Are you sure you are diamond? You are playing some bad players.
Cute build I guess but won't work against any competent player. Bashing it without any support other than "your opponent is horrible" which is an opinion btw does not help this thread and only labels you as a troll. What would you define as 'competent'? There are a few players in this thread (as well as OP) that are in diamond. Even my practice partner hu's 900 points diamond said he's lost to this on ladder and is still not sure what to do against it. EDIT: Would Tester be competent enough for you?
You're all scrubs. Tester is terrible. He lost to IdrA who has never qualified for OSL Ro32, let alone Ro16.
Obviously.
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How do you defend this as Protoss? I mean, even if you know they are going this, there isn't even much in terms of unit composition that you can get to actually beat it. The BC gets near your base around 8mins in, this really doesn't give much room to tech hard or mass a decent army.
Going for Voidrays gets countered by a marine heavy army and going Stalker heavy gets countered by a Marauder heavy army, Phoenixes are worthless and Sentries likewise...
Anyone have any ideas?
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if you want to rush a BC (besides being a pretty shite build imo, better to just rush thor with scvs) you should skip the normal OC and opt for very fast gas. gas is the limiting factor, so you need to get it as soon as possible.
still i tried this strat several times for fun, and it takes too long to be effective unless you're against a deadbeat opponent.
edit: when i tested a similar build, i didn't discriminate against T, Z or P, but upon further reading i can see how its a decent build against protoss who doesn't rush VR. you can kill like 5 stalkers with 1 BC on repair. then when that 2nd BC comes out, its gg.
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On September 07 2010 01:48 bulge wrote:
if you want to rush a BC (besides being a pretty shite build imo, better to just rush thor with scvs) you should skip the normal OC and opt for very fast gas. gas is the limiting factor, so you need to get it as soon as possible.
still i tried this strat several times for fun, and it takes too long to be effective unless you're against a deadbeat opponent.
you didn't watch the gsl today, right?
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On September 06 2010 16:19 zomgtossrush wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 07:23 Shaithis wrote:
Guys, great effort and all, but you do realize that BC ground damage is being nerfed by 20% in the next patch, which will go into effect in just a few days? Even now, this strat is just barely viable vs very specific builds, and it's not exactly something you can transition out of...
I would look into incorporating this build with iEchoic's TvP hellion drop into marine banshee into BC build that's floating around here somewhere. Boo, theorycrafting. 10-8 damage isn't a huge blow, considering ur marines are still do the majority of the DPS. The bc is mainly just there to ensure your marines stay alive and tank stalker hits, and to counter any non-stalker units. I don't even want to try this against a solid z player since a bling bust seems so easy to break this build(as i do a ton when i dice a zvt) TvT again is iffy due to fast viking builds, and marines have much higher dps than stalkes in mass groups. TvP seems the most viable out of the matchups. Still sorta tweaking the build to fit my style, but liking it so far.
10-8 damage is not a huge blow? Just making a silly statement like that tells everyone that you know jack about this game.
Consider this; at present, BCs are just about even with stalkers cost-for-cost; 1 BC can kill 5 stalkers and 5 stalkers cost just about as much as 1 BC.
With the patch, the 20% damage reduction means that, in the case of 1 BC vs 5 stalkers, it takes the BC 20% longer to kill the first stalker (to drop incoming damage). This means that BCs are no longer even in cost with stalkers, and with good micro, the Protoss may even be able to get away with 2 surviving stalkers in the 5 stalkers vc BC skirmish. Considering that marines are terrible vs stalkers, 1-2 rounds of stalker warpins ends your all-in push.
This is not theorycraft, it is game mechanics.
On September 07 2010 01:37 Emperor_Earth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:13 me_viet wrote:On September 06 2010 23:31 Uhh Negative wrote:
Good thing the zerg player you were playing was completely terrible. "Oh let's make two lairs and just mass roaches that'll probably help"
edit: the Protoss was awful as well. I can only see this working in maybe plat. Are you sure you are diamond? You are playing some bad players.
Cute build I guess but won't work against any competent player. Bashing it without any support other than "your opponent is horrible" which is an opinion btw does not help this thread and only labels you as a troll. What would you define as 'competent'? There are a few players in this thread (as well as OP) that are in diamond. Even my practice partner hu's 900 points diamond said he's lost to this on ladder and is still not sure what to do against it. EDIT: Would Tester be competent enough for you? You're all scrubs. Tester is terrible. He lost to IdrA who has never qualified for OSL Ro32, let alone Ro16. Obviously.
You're just a moron, have fun getting banned for being a waste of space.
On September 07 2010 01:54 petelectro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:48 bulge wrote:
if you want to rush a BC (besides being a pretty shite build imo, better to just rush thor with scvs) you should skip the normal OC and opt for very fast gas. gas is the limiting factor, so you need to get it as soon as possible.
still i tried this strat several times for fun, and it takes too long to be effective unless you're against a deadbeat opponent. you didn't watch the gsl today, right?
Here's a protip; just because it worked in a tournament does not mean that it's a good idea for ladder. Anyone remember Cauthonluck's 11 starport vs Idra back in beta? Did it work? Yes. Did it make him cry? Yep. Is it viable on ladder? No. Why? Expectation of cheese is generally much lower in tournaments than on ladder, lack of time to develop counters, and most importantly, your opponents will be much more likely to recognize your build after seeing it in a high-profile tournament (as in, 11-starport's VERY early rax/factory walloff with no supply depots in sight).
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Actually if you follow up with an expansion I don't consider this cheese but an solid opening push. Yeah you bring a couple of scvs with you but if you kill enough eco and army with the push you got the mule advantage after that.
I know that it doesn't mean a lot that it worked in a tournement situation but two times in a row against a solid ogs toss? It definitely doesn't mean nothing.
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On September 07 2010 02:17 Shaithis wrote:
Consider this; at present, BCs are just about even with stalkers cost-for-cost; 1 BC can kill 5 stalkers and 5 stalkers cost just about as much as 1 BC.
1BC = 400/300, 5 Stalkers = 625/250. I know gas is more valuable but come on.
With the patch, the 20% damage reduction means that, in the case of 1 BC vs 5 stalkers, it takes the BC 20% longer to kill the first stalker (to drop incoming damage). This means that BCs are no longer even in cost with stalkers, and with good micro, the Protoss may even be able to get away with 2 surviving stalkers in the 5 stalkers vc BC skirmish. Considering that marines are terrible vs stalkers, 1-2 rounds of stalker warpins ends your all-in push.
Have you tested what happens? Should be simple enough..
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oh god, a pro lost to this now everyone is going to start crying, as well as let the carbon copying on bnet begin!
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hmmmmmm whats this about a pro getting owned with this strat ? DO TELL!
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On September 07 2010 02:47 avilo wrote:
oh god, a pro lost to this now everyone is going to start crying, as well as let the carbon copying on bnet begin!
But now all the people who saw this thread before get to feel cool because "I was doing it before it was popular." 
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Zealot+sentry+voidray should deal with this, between zealots and forcefield people tend to underestimate how difficult it can be to effectively focus fire the voids. Yes terran can pull the BC back to try and draw the VRs forward but if they do it's no longer doing its job of tanking damage.
Honestly the most annoying thing about dealing with terran starport/techlab openings as protoss is that it's difficult to tell whether they are researching cloak unless you spotted a fusion core, typically resulting in protoss wasting resources on detection if they didn't research cloak.
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On September 07 2010 08:10 Cerion wrote:
Zealot+sentry+voidray should deal with this, between zealots and forcefield people tend to underestimate how difficult it can be to effectively focus fire the voids. Yes terran can pull the BC back to try and draw the VRs forward but if they do it's no longer doing its job of tanking damage.
Honestly the most annoying thing about dealing with terran starport/techlab openings as protoss is that it's difficult to tell whether they are researching cloak unless you spotted a fusion core, typically resulting in protoss wasting resources on detection if they didn't research cloak.
I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding you here, but you havent needed Fusion Core for cloak since like the 3rd week of the beta or some shit. :/
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On September 07 2010 08:31 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:10 Cerion wrote:
Zealot+sentry+voidray should deal with this, between zealots and forcefield people tend to underestimate how difficult it can be to effectively focus fire the voids. Yes terran can pull the BC back to try and draw the VRs forward but if they do it's no longer doing its job of tanking damage.
Honestly the most annoying thing about dealing with terran starport/techlab openings as protoss is that it's difficult to tell whether they are researching cloak unless you spotted a fusion core, typically resulting in protoss wasting resources on detection if they didn't research cloak. I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding you here, but you havent needed Fusion Core for cloak since like the 3rd week of the beta or some shit. :/
I mean that a fusion core is a clear sign that terran is BC rushing as opposed to going cloaked banshees, so protoss doesn't need detection yet
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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I should think that some people might want to go back and edit their "this would never work on a good player" comments since it clearly worked TWICE against the same pro player. One who is a legend.
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The AugustWeRRa build is indeed strong. Basically opens up with a reactor and tech lab and marauder slow. Forces the protoss to get some formidable anti ground, while teching to a BC at the same time. Ends up going all-in with a few marauders marines scvs and 1 BC. BC tanks all the hits while the scvs repair.
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On September 07 2010 02:17 Shaithis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 16:19 zomgtossrush wrote:On September 06 2010 07:23 Shaithis wrote:
Guys, great effort and all, but you do realize that BC ground damage is being nerfed by 20% in the next patch, which will go into effect in just a few days? Even now, this strat is just barely viable vs very specific builds, and it's not exactly something you can transition out of...
I would look into incorporating this build with iEchoic's TvP hellion drop into marine banshee into BC build that's floating around here somewhere. Boo, theorycrafting. 10-8 damage isn't a huge blow, considering ur marines are still do the majority of the DPS. The bc is mainly just there to ensure your marines stay alive and tank stalker hits, and to counter any non-stalker units. I don't even want to try this against a solid z player since a bling bust seems so easy to break this build(as i do a ton when i dice a zvt) TvT again is iffy due to fast viking builds, and marines have much higher dps than stalkes in mass groups. TvP seems the most viable out of the matchups. Still sorta tweaking the build to fit my style, but liking it so far. 10-8 damage is not a huge blow? Just making a silly statement like that tells everyone that you know jack about this game. Consider this; at present, BCs are just about even with stalkers cost-for-cost; 1 BC can kill 5 stalkers and 5 stalkers cost just about as much as 1 BC. With the patch, the 20% damage reduction means that, in the case of 1 BC vs 5 stalkers, it takes the BC 20% longer to kill the first stalker (to drop incoming damage). This means that BCs are no longer even in cost with stalkers, and with good micro, the Protoss may even be able to get away with 2 surviving stalkers in the 5 stalkers vc BC skirmish. Considering that marines are terrible vs stalkers, 1-2 rounds of stalker warpins ends your all-in push. This is not theorycraft, it is game mechanics. Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:37 Emperor_Earth wrote:On September 07 2010 01:13 me_viet wrote:On September 06 2010 23:31 Uhh Negative wrote:
Good thing the zerg player you were playing was completely terrible. "Oh let's make two lairs and just mass roaches that'll probably help"
edit: the Protoss was awful as well. I can only see this working in maybe plat. Are you sure you are diamond? You are playing some bad players.
Cute build I guess but won't work against any competent player. Bashing it without any support other than "your opponent is horrible" which is an opinion btw does not help this thread and only labels you as a troll. What would you define as 'competent'? There are a few players in this thread (as well as OP) that are in diamond. Even my practice partner hu's 900 points diamond said he's lost to this on ladder and is still not sure what to do against it. EDIT: Would Tester be competent enough for you? You're all scrubs. Tester is terrible. He lost to IdrA who has never qualified for OSL Ro32, let alone Ro16. Obviously. You're just a moron, have fun getting banned for being a waste of space. Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 01:54 petelectro wrote:On September 07 2010 01:48 bulge wrote:
if you want to rush a BC (besides being a pretty shite build imo, better to just rush thor with scvs) you should skip the normal OC and opt for very fast gas. gas is the limiting factor, so you need to get it as soon as possible.
still i tried this strat several times for fun, and it takes too long to be effective unless you're against a deadbeat opponent. you didn't watch the gsl today, right? Here's a protip; just because it worked in a tournament does not mean that it's a good idea for ladder. Anyone remember Cauthonluck's 11 starport vs Idra back in beta? Did it work? Yes. Did it make him cry? Yep. Is it viable on ladder? No. Why? Expectation of cheese is generally much lower in tournaments than on ladder, lack of time to develop counters, and most importantly, your opponents will be much more likely to recognize your build after seeing it in a high-profile tournament (as in, 11-starport's VERY early rax/factory walloff with no supply depots in sight).
When you share your opinions try not to be so angry. Relax.
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TBH, that made me shed tiny Terran tears... WP though.
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Anyone have any ideas on how to beat this as Protoss? Terrans in the ladder are starting to hide their Fusion Core around the map, the BC gets to your base around 8-9mins in, and the fusion core goes down at around 5-6mins, you just can't prepare in 2-3mins even if you catch the fusion core starting.
This is so ridiculous, doesn't even matter if you have 10-15 stalkers, the MM ball snaps them in two while the BC constantly gets repaired....
Does ANYONE have a replay where they have successfully managed to defend this?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 07 2010 12:23 Antisocialmunky wrote:TBH, that made me shed tiny Terran tears... WP though.
Welcome to the SEA server, where 99% of Terrans plays terribly 
On September 07 2010 12:59 Dommk wrote:
Anyone have any ideas on how to beat this as Protoss? Terrans in the ladder are starting to hide their Fusion Core around the map, the BC gets to your base around 8-9mins in, and the fusion core goes down at around 5-6mins, you just can't prepare in 2-3mins even if you catch the fusion core starting.
This is so ridiculous, doesn't even matter if you have 10-15 stalkers, the MM ball snaps them in two while the BC constantly gets repaired....
Does ANYONE have a replay where they have successfully managed to defend this?
Try to use forcefields to wall out his SCVs and try drag his BC out so that it is exposed - then snipe it while he scrambles back to the SCVs behind the FF. It's tough, but it's doable.
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EPT
