EPT[G] 5 Roach Rush: early game without the all-in - Page 35
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TigerWoodsPutt
United States38 Posts
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nodq
Germany123 Posts
On September 28 2010 02:05 TigerWoodsPutt wrote: haven't read the entire 34 page thread, but as a 1300 diamond terran, this strat looks like it would hardly work in zvt against any opening because as soon as i scout the roach warren, 1 bunker with mauraders and a few rines will completely stop this strat. i'll watch the reps when i get home but it doesn't sound viable after a certain level. For Pros on turneys not, right. Laddering? Yes, i think its good. | ||
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PeT[uK]
United States412 Posts
heres the build order, 10 ov, pool at the same time ov pops gas at 11 drone till 14 queen 16/18 drone 17/18 OV 17/18 roach warren 16/26 OV then ov should pop and you will have 34 supply, and a little over 300 mins and 125-150 gas pump all roaches, your spawn larva should pop additional larva as soon as you are able to pump the roaches, then keep pumping roaches and rallying. while you are attacking put creep tumor down at base, and expand after you've done enough damage. toss will not have enough stalkers to fight it off. also ur gonna want to split ur roaches up, one big group and one group of 2 on the probes. if you are at a far away position from a zerg opponent this build is not optional because if they go a speedling build which is pretty popular, you will get raped. i wouldn't do this against a terran unless hes going reapers (which no1 does with patch 1.1 now). | ||
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broke
39 Posts
haven't read the entire 34 page thread, but as a 1200 diamond terran, this strat looks like it would hardly work in zvt against any opening because as soon as i scout the roach warren, 1 bunker with mauraders and a few rines will completely stop this strat. i'll watch the reps when i get home but it doesn't sound viable after a certain level. I think most if not all non-standard openings run the same risk. | ||
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stk01001
United States786 Posts
On September 28 2010 02:05 TigerWoodsPutt wrote: haven't read the entire 34 page thread, but as a 1200 diamond terran, this strat looks like it would hardly work in zvt against any opening because as soon as i scout the roach warren, 1 bunker with mauraders and a few rines will completely stop this strat. i'll watch the reps when i get home but it doesn't sound viable after a certain level. personally I have not had much luck with this build everytime I've tried it. Once you start playing 1000+ diamond players it's VERY hard to recover from if you don't do a ton of damage with your initial rush. And a lot of times I barely do any damage with it and just end up WAAAAY behind in the macro game.. I'd say this build has lost me many more games than it's won.... it's really only good against like an aggresive two gate or if you manage to surprise a terran with it (which is very hard).. | ||
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Ragnar4
United States64 Posts
Vs Zerg it rapes any sort of early baneling, but I struggle with any sort of roach build because of the defenders advantage. Although truth be told, I probably don't switch gears into macro quick enough... So that's probably on me. | ||
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Ragnar4
United States64 Posts
On September 28 2010 02:05 TigerWoodsPutt wrote: haven't read the entire 34 page thread, but as a 1200 diamond terran, this strat looks like it would hardly work in zvt against any opening because as soon as i scout the roach warren, 1 bunker with mauraders and a few rines will completely stop this strat. i'll watch the reps when i get home but it doesn't sound viable after a certain level. The strat has a built in anti scouting mechanism though.. he doesn't build the roach until the first 2 lings have cleaned up the SCV. Unless you're telling me that you bunker up every time the SCV dies? Or perhaps instead of MULEing that you Scan first... One of the nicest things about this build is that it's sort of a blank template. If you see 2 lings and a queen just before your SCV dies, I have a couple of options. I can one base roach, I can 1 base muta, or I can Expand and Macroling/muta. I'm not here to go all Dwight on you, by any means... I'm just saying, it requires a little more dilligence than you're making it out to be. Also: If you do bunker up, how do you deal with a Depot kill/runbye into the min line? That's how I've dealt with bunkers in the past... Best place to put the bunker IMO is right next to the CC when you scout this little dance. | ||
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TigerWoodsPutt
United States38 Posts
On September 28 2010 02:14 nodq wrote: For Pros on turneys not, right. Laddering? Yes, i think its good. i meant in lower level play, this may work, but once you hit a certain point it's almost never going to. On September 28 2010 04:46 Ragnar4 wrote: The strat has a built in anti scouting mechanism though.. he doesn't build the roach until the first 2 lings have cleaned up the SCV. Unless you're telling me that you bunker up every time the SCV dies? Or perhaps instead of MULEing that you Scan first... against terran, an "anti scouting mechanism" doesn't exist because of scans. if you wait to build a roach warren and not build lings, that makes you extremely vulnerable. One of the nicest things about this build is that it's sort of a blank template. If you see 2 lings and a queen just before your SCV dies, I have a couple of options. I can one base roach, I can 1 base muta, or I can Expand and Macroling/muta. it's nice to wait until the SCV dies, but that can take a really long time. and again, hiding your tech is not really an option because of scans. Also: If you do bunker up, how do you deal with a Depot kill/runbye into the min line? That's how I've dealt with bunkers in the past... Best place to put the bunker IMO is right next to the CC when you scout this little dance. according to the BO, you only have 2 lings which will obviously die quickly. marines on the ramp stop runbys. | ||
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Ragnar4
United States64 Posts
according to the BO, you only have 2 lings which will obviously die quickly. marines on the ramp stop runbys. suddenly it's clear that you only skimmed the BO. | ||
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TigerWoodsPutt
United States38 Posts
On September 28 2010 14:20 Ragnar4 wrote: suddenly it's clear that you only skimmed the BO. 9 Overlord 13 Spawning Pool 13 Extractor 15 Overlord Zergling Queen Drone Drone Roach Warren (latest you should start is when queen is 70% done) Zergling speed when you have 100 gas Drone Overlord when queen pops, inject larvae Drone Take drones off gas once you have 125 Re-inject 5 Roaches (Warren, OL, and injection should all pop very close to each other) ?? regardless, rines on ramp negates running through my choke | ||
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Shakes
Australia557 Posts
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TigerWoodsPutt
United States38 Posts
On September 28 2010 14:48 Shakes wrote: If you cut off the bit of the build order that says "Zerglings as you get the minerals, rallied to your opponent's base" then of course there are no zerglings in it. just watched one of the zvt replays, and there were no lings by the time the roaches reached the t's base. am i missing something? seriously? his argument was to run his army past my bunker, not wait until he has a bunch of lings to accompany his roaches | ||
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tmzu
58 Posts
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Shakes
Australia557 Posts
On September 28 2010 14:54 TigerWoodsPutt wrote: just watched one of the zvt replays, and there were no lings by the time the roaches reached the t's base. am i missing something? seriously? his argument was to run his army past my bunker, not wait until he has a bunch of lings to accompany his roaches If they're the replays in the first post you're probably watching an older version of the build. The up to date build gets ling speed early enough that the first batch of lings arrives around the time the roaches finish knocking the depot down (depending on the walk distance of course). I think you're right in that a bunker holds this off: if not shuts it down completely at least doesn't allow it to do enough damage to justify it over a standard expand & drone build. I just don't think you're right about the lack of zerglings. | ||
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Almania
145 Posts
Also, they've been forced to modify their build and counter accordingly ie for terran - by going marauders/bio instead of mech/hellion harrass or early banshee. Which imo, puts the zerg player in a good position. Protoss has to delay their 4gate. Zerg has to forget banelings (as has been said here before, they just "tickle" roaches). Just hold position on your ramp whilst you do whatever. Great build OP.. | ||
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syrianrue
United States56 Posts
need some help here | ||
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nodq
Germany123 Posts
On September 28 2010 22:17 syrianrue wrote: i find that if the protoss zealot rush me, then they often time get my queen before my 5 roaches are out. does anyone have this problem? need some help here if you do perfect timings on the BO that should not happen, especially not after zealot buildtime nerf patch 1.1. But you could micro your queen just run away until roaches pop out. | ||
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syrianrue
United States56 Posts
i'm using this one right now by ZodiakLucien from this thread: 9 ovi 14 ext 13pool 15 ovi Drone Queen Ling Drone Drone Warren Ling Speed Ovi, when queen pops inject I take the first drone off of gas at 136ish, 2nd drone at mid 140's, and last done when they bring in the final gas for 150. reinject 6 roaches (6th roach is a split second slower) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145740¤tpage=26#515 it's supposed to get the roaches out at 5.04 however, a lot of the times the zealot rush show up at around 4:45 or so, and they either kill my queen or my spawning pool. I do end up killing the zealot later once my roaches pop up, but then i have no queen or no spawning pool to continue making units... and because i had to spend time killing zealot at my base, and the oncoming zealot that are traversing from his base to mine, by the time my roaches get there, their numbers are cut down by half, and they usually have a blockade at the ramp with cannons and other units. :\ *and vs terran, whenever they have a blocked ramp with bunker and marines behind, my roaches usually get cut down to an insignificant amount  need some help guys, anything will be greatly appreciated. | ||
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Ragnar4
United States64 Posts
On September 28 2010 22:17 syrianrue wrote: i find that if the protoss zealot rush me, then they often time get my queen before my 5 roaches are out. does anyone have this problem? need some help here Slow down the build to normal speed, and play it over and over again like 10 times just against an insane AI computer.. watch your time for the 5 pop and do everything you can to streamline it speed up to "fast" speed, do the same, do everything you can to have it perfectly streamlined Move up to ludicris speed. and practice until your opening is completely smooth. This helped me SO much. I was shaving like 15 seconds off my roach pop and my timings came together sooooo well. I also stopped doing silly stuff like messing with the refinery timings. | ||
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The Touch
United Kingdom667 Posts
This might be the very strat that finally gets me out of top-10 silver and into the gold league. | ||
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