• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:19
CET 13:19
KST 21:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies0ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1230 users

[A] Starbow - Page 249

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 247 248 249 250 251 537 Next
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 21:48:43
April 16 2013 20:26 GMT
#4961
Someone plays?
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
April 16 2013 20:30 GMT
#4962
Same as one presented with helions in that video. Just use vultures model instead.
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
April 16 2013 20:32 GMT
#4963
On April 17 2013 05:30 Danko__ wrote:
Same as one presented with helions in that video. Just use vultures model instead.

Very easy to do.

There was also Pura's idea to use this sort of micro, but have it so that hellions attack will splash the longer you are moving and aimed towards a target which could be neat. Adds even more risk/reward.
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
April 16 2013 20:51 GMT
#4964
Why give Vulture the Hellion attack in the video?
Creator of Starbow
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
April 16 2013 20:57 GMT
#4965
Because it feel more like the vulture attack.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
makmeatt
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
2024 Posts
April 16 2013 21:38 GMT
#4966
On April 17 2013 05:57 Xiphias wrote:
Because it feel more like the vulture attack.

*cough*
Nothing can feel like the vulture attack more than the vulture attack itself.
"Silver Edge can't break my hope" - Kryptt 2016 || "Chrono is not a debuff, you just get rekt" - Guru 2016
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
April 17 2013 01:14 GMT
#4967
WHOA. HI MAKMEATT
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
April 17 2013 04:23 GMT
#4968

Thumbs up or down?
Cons: Some people will mistakenly think it means they can move and shoot at the same time.
Pros: People will think they can move and shoot at the same time with hilarious results.
Looks much nicer.
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
April 17 2013 04:54 GMT
#4969
On April 17 2013 06:38 makmeatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 05:57 Xiphias wrote:
Because it feel more like the vulture attack.

*cough*
Nothing can feel like the vulture attack more than the vulture attack itself.


Because it feels more like the vulture attack than helion attack.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
April 17 2013 05:58 GMT
#4970
Let me actially go back on what I said (what??)

The one big difference of having heelions with "vulture shot" (it's alsmot the same) from the vulture itself is ofc the hellbat transformation. This makes more sense if the Hellions gets the attack showcased by dec since the two attacks now will be very different. The hellion's attack was too similar to the hellbat in the first place anyways.

But... if we add this new attack to the hellions then mass lings will be a pain for terran in early-game as the old hellion attack deals much better with large numbers of zerglings, so I suggest we bring back the firebat as well. My (adjusted) suggesiton for terran line-up

- Marines
- Medics
- Reapers (with cliff-jump cooldown, no upgrade reqiuered for cliff-jumping, with stim when upgarded and with the mine things when upgraded. I would like the mine-thing upgrade to be on the tecjh lab, but requer factory for upgrade).
- Firebat
- Ghost

- Hellion (with new attack, and upgrades for both spider mines and hellbat transformation)
- Tanks
- Goliaths.

The rest as it is.

Maybe we should keep the immortal (the new one) if we have hellbats..... Might be hard to balance ....
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 07:21:16
April 17 2013 07:16 GMT
#4971
I do not think that both Firebat and Hellbat is necessary. IF the Hellion attack is reworked so it is more like a Vulture attack, the Hellion will still be able to handle mass Zerglings with Spider mines! Just as Vultures did.

Maybe this:

Marine
Medic
Reaper (Maybe the mine attack ability)
Ghost

Hellion with reworked attack + Spider mines + Hellbat
Tank
Goliath

The rest as it is.



As you say Xiphias, the attacks for Hellion and Hellbat would become more different compared to each other.

The main problem I see is that it will scare away even more players. Newcomers build the Hellions, drive into the enemy mineral line, attacks the Drones and a tiny little flame shot appears... No roasting!!! Wtf lol zoomg rage quit1!!!1!!11

After all, we take a familiar unit from SC2 and just make it even worse.



Otherwise I will just go for what works:

Marine
Medic
Reaper (Mine attack ability?)
Firebat
Ghost

Vulture + Spider mines
Tank
Goliath

Air units as it is.



What I do like with the Hellion/Hellbat is the connection between Bio + Mech it provides. (Medics + Hellbat, Marines + Hellbats etc)

If I go back to basics, the same scenario will probably still occur for Terran: Only mech vs P and T in game after game.

Maybe new Reapers can change that. Or if Ghosts or Medics become even more useful in combination with other units. (For example is Matrix quite good with mech etc) Then maybe will bio units, to some degree atleast, become more useful in more match-ups.

Creator of Starbow
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 08:41:39
April 17 2013 08:09 GMT
#4972
The vulture attack was so much better than the hellion attack than changing the attack will bring more to the game then the people raging because the hellion attack is different.

We could make the vulture transform? Since the new hellion attack is so similar to the vulture attack.

Point is: Please find a way to remove the flame-attack of the hellions while keeping the hellbat transform. I don't see why we don't want firebat. We had it with vultures, even if vultures held off lings.

TvZ should be able to stay on bio tech vs many lings, and that is hard atm. Me and johnnyZerg tested new bio (marines, medics and reapers with mines) vs mass lings, and they were slaughtered without the firebat.

On the other hand, terran will not stay on pure bio, since tanks are so strong and spells like fungal and plauge and lurkers destroys bio, so I feel the firebat is neccecary, and can even provide some fun.

On April 17 2013 16:16 Kabel wrote:

Maybe new Reapers can change that. Or if Ghosts or Medics become even more useful in combination with other units. (For example is Matrix quite good with mech etc) Then maybe will bio units, to some degree atleast, become more useful in more match-ups.



It can! Me and JohnnyZerg did some testing and a bio terran can destroy a siged position with the new mines if you give them matrix from medics, but it is difficult to execute. It was sooo much more fun and much more difficult than using mauraders

Also: ADD ALL THE DECEMBERCALM STUFF!!!
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
April 17 2013 08:53 GMT
#4973
I just mean that Hellbat + Firebat are essentially the same units. They are so similar in what they do. I think it would be strange to have both of them in the game.
Creator of Starbow
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 09:17:31
April 17 2013 09:01 GMT
#4974
They look / feel similar but they play very different roles.

Firebats makes an early marine/medic push viable vs a greedy zerg who tries to defend by just using lings (reapers wont help much here), and hellbats tank for siegetanks when terrans go for mech.

I would like to keep both and I don't think it hurts, but if you want firebat gone I won't whine about it (not like the carrier )
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
April 17 2013 14:18 GMT
#4975
I haven't been playing for a while but, unless something was rebalanced, I find it hard to belive that Marine/medic gets saughtered by mass ling. Pathing patch was quite big nerf to lings.

In terran lineup I would like to see vult + tweaked firebat + reapers with snapshot mines.
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 14:35:01
April 17 2013 14:34 GMT
#4976
I understand that the main problem of the hellion, is his attack (splash damage), which together with the mine, it's damn strong (although I have not had the chance to try it in game). Solution? Return of the vulture.
And hellbat? Revome it. But keep the Firebat? No!
How do you kill a mass lings? without spider mines, the reaper has something to do? Yes, but snapshots mines do not work on Zerglings.

I tried adding a small splash damage at reaper normal attack (fragmentation projectiles).This splash damage work on light units, excluding harvesters. This splash damage, not require an upgrade but jetpack ability (with cooldown 20 sec), has needs an upgrade. This reaper maintains snapshot mines (require tech lab withoud factory), that unlike what it may seem, is strong on ranged units. This reaper is a support unit, in large numbers is difficult to manage. Trying is believing.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 15:12:04
April 17 2013 15:01 GMT
#4977
I don't mind a vulture return that much, but I do mind reapers countering lings. With mines reapers already work good vs lurkers, tanks and other large targets as well as canons and do great against workers. If they get spalsh vs light they also kill lings and marines and zealots.

We need something to counter reapers, it can't be "all about the reapers", so I suggest we do bring the firebat back, especially if we bring back the vulture, and do not give reaper splash vs light!

On April 17 2013 23:18 Danko__ wrote:
I haven't been playing for a while but, unless something was rebalanced, I find it hard to belive that Marine/medic gets saughtered by mass ling. Pathing patch was quite big nerf to lings.

In terran lineup I would like to see vult + tweaked firebat + reapers with snapshot mines.


This is actually my style. Play greedy opening with mass ling to defend which is very hard to punish without firebats if you go for bio play.

Might be hard for the editor, but is it possible to add the hellbat transformation to the vulture?
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
April 17 2013 16:10 GMT
#4978
I think that as long as bio and mech are kept seperate like in BW there is room for both the firebat and hellbat. if instead starbow takes the same position as blizzard of combining mech and bio into one playstyle then the firebat and hellbat have significant overlap.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
April 17 2013 17:06 GMT
#4979
Here's an elegant solution. Hellbats are built out of barracks. Hellions (with vulture attack) are built from factory. They can transform into each other, but it requires a cheap upgrade at the machine shop.
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
April 17 2013 17:29 GMT
#4980
New patch up on EU.
Creator of Starbow
Prev 1 247 248 249 250 251 537 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
Monday #66
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #65
CranKy Ducklings203
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 204
Lowko121
BRAT_OK 95
trigger 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2190
Bisu 1422
GuemChi 633
Stork 562
Larva 482
Soma 386
firebathero 310
Light 294
Mini 250
PianO 175
[ Show more ]
Sharp 170
Snow 137
ggaemo 131
Killer 123
hero 118
Aegong 114
Pusan 93
Rush 77
JYJ 72
Yoon 65
Mong 64
ToSsGirL 52
soO 41
Movie 34
zelot 29
sorry 27
NotJumperer 23
Terrorterran 21
yabsab 21
910 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 19
Sacsri 13
Shinee 12
Bale 10
SilentControl 9
Noble 7
Icarus 1
Dota 2
singsing3680
XcaliburYe795
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2596
x6flipin702
zeus618
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor172
Other Games
summit1g8265
crisheroes298
Fuzer 297
Mew2King72
nookyyy 67
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV343
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 3
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 57
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt452
Other Games
• WagamamaTV316
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
4h 41m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.