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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
Firebats makes an early marine/medic push viable vs a greedy zerg who tries to defend by just using lings (reapers wont help much here), and hellbats tank for siegetanks when terrans go for mech. Hellions fulfill that role as well, and unlike Firebats they actually reward micro. | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
Reaper with spider mines (research on techlab with rax). Hellion with snapshots mines (research on techlab with factory). In this way reaper with spider mines can compete with protoss and terran, while vs the zerglings, spider mines are an excellent solution. Hellion is good vs zergling and zealot if micred, and with snapshots mines can be a good support for tank. Remove firebat/hellbat because now they haven't a fundamental role. @New patch: I removed the 7 small mines (generated by snarpshots mine) because too strong vs harvesters. In exchange, i buffed the damage of the single snapshot mines, make it more strong vs armored units. @Unit test map "Starbow Tester" Update! | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
The Reaper should not overlap the role of the Hellbat in any way. It is too mobile with cliffjump and moves too quickly to be a powerful anti-light AoE unit without a major drawback. Making the cliffjump an upgrade or reducing the speed just goes in straight opposition to the whole intended theme and role of the unit. Giving them snapshot mines/charges after an upgrade is great, as long as those have a long (8 seconds?) detonation time - in other words, they shouldn't really be intended to do damage against anything but static units, they would function in more of an area-control role like defensive nukes. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
But it is good that reapers have to use their mobility to be effective. Losing 500 gas 500 minerals vs 500 minerals worth of speed lings is a huge blow to the terran. Hellions with default attack and spider mines is just brutal overkill. Mines utterly decimate marines and lings. Throw in a anti light splash weapon and you've created an immortal esque hard counter to anything light. Not to mention the ability to turn into a hellbat. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
http://drop.sc/324958 http://drop.sc/324959 | ||
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Danko__
Poland429 Posts
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
On April 18 2013 06:15 Danko__ wrote: I just had new idea for reaper snapshot. What if this ability was activate "granade atack". You use that ability, reaper pulls out trigger from granade and you have 5 seconds to attack. Whatever you will do granade will explode exactly where it is. You see group of lings, you enable granades, and toss them at last possible moment so enemy have less time to dodge. On the other hand enemy can run away with his units and your reapers will be killed by granades in their hands. This sounds like snapshots mines I said. Where is difference? ^^ | ||
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Danko__
Poland429 Posts
Point is to not make them castable but activated ability. Also, reapers can't be anti-siege units. They are way too mobile and too low tech. About reapers with mines and vult... I mean helions with snapshots. One problem is their cost. Reaper should be unit you don't wanna lose due to heavy gas cost. So charges are kinda counter intuitive. This unit should be kept active as long as possible. While vultures job was to basically put mines and be saced for couple of workers. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On April 18 2013 13:52 Danko__ wrote: ... Also, reapers can't be anti-siege units. They are way too mobile and too low tech. ... Excellent point. They are not crazy effective at that role right now right? They are fragile, and require even more gas (medics plus matrix sheild), the apm to actually do it. They suck at main line fighting. I don't think that would be an incredible issue. It would be a soft counter to get use out of your reapers. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
Good to hear from you again HideR  Also, overseer can make changelings now. Don't know if that is intentional.... | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
"Especially not the Marauder >.<" | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
Someone is available for some games? | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/kanban85 | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Fen1kz
Russian Federation216 Posts
* lower gas income to 6 per trip, 8 is a way too high, making economics based on minerals only * make terran vulture a bit more dmg or lower their cost to 75, currently it good only vs zerglings also lower their size a bit, * lower PF cooldown, 90 seconds too much for massive defencing, zerg and protoss have creep/warp mobility and static defence, while terran haven't * buff tank attack speed while unsieged, its too low and no point to keep ur tanks unsieged. * remove attack while moving with unsieged tanks * nerf tank siege time, they're pretty good for their supply/cost, with unsieged mode buff they're * bio now a way worse than mech, it has lower mobility (!) i dont know though what to do vs that * increase vessel cost to 100-250 or 50-300, currently even if im meching - i still can build them in large amounts (also due 8 gas per trip) and for protoss: * nerf tempest health, 150/300 is too much for long range * bring back carriers! :p | ||
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purakushi
United States3301 Posts
Try 7 if you think 6 is too little. Regarding science vessels, I would first change the gas income before messing with its cost. It does not need that big of a change right now. The gas income change should be tested first. Personally, I think science vessels are okay right now... well maybe on the higher side of okay, but just try the gas change, regardless. I prefer the old nerve jammer. It was targetable, and I tend to dislike spheres like how it is now... it's just meh ;; Carriers please! | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Targettable thing to counter it was nice. @PF It does wonderfully against big committed engagements. But terrible vs little units harrassing. I think its great currently. Seriously, it slays a single ultralisk no problem. It buys time extremely effectively, but it is not its own defence. Supplement it with defense. @Tempest It is such a weird unit. Utterly massive range. It can tank scourges no problem. I think to make it work it'd need to be more like a guardian but then it would lose its idenity. I say bring the carrier. It is such a unique unit, instead we have this weird longer range, more hp guardian. Marines could counter carriers or at least hold them off by killing interceptors. No such option for a bio player vs tempest. You have to go goliath and viking to counter them more effectively. They abuse dead space so well. | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
I finally found the answer. Bio is outclassed by mech, for various reasons. Mech macro is more easy. Bio for become effective, it must be in large quantities and all upgrades of bio researched. Mech require few micro (placed tank and mines not is micro). With bio matrix is necessary and not is easy click on 10 marines in 2 sec (for make matrix) in battle and make at the same times stimpack and new snapshot reaper mines. Bio die from high splash damage but mech has a low mobility, Mech and Bio suck if you fail the engagement. But the thing that bio suck is the equal supply (without matrix). I Propose a momentary rebalance, also made a map on the sidelines. This "rebalance" tends to balance the micro between bio and mech, making mech more micro dependent , and bio easier to use. Remove firebat; Replace reaper snapshots mines with spider mines (require an upgrade) Nerf jump: after that reaper makes a jump, you must wait 20 seconds before you can jump again. Replace vulture with hellion and add at it, snapshots mines (require an upgrade) Hellion cost 100 minerals, after make snapshots mines research, cost 100 minerals and 25 gas. Snapshot mines should make a cooldown 30 sec. Now bio, can make mines, trying to lure enemies on them. However mine may turn against the same bio, shield has a fundamental role. Mech has hellion, fantastic micro units. Snapshots mines when used well can cause serious damage to the opposing army. If you want try these change in an "unit test map", search Starbow alternative version on arcade game. Remember, this is "heart of the Starbow" must differ from the predecessor, and be a little more new ^^ | ||
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