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On May 08 2009 17:01 AttackZerg wrote:
Definately Nal_ra.
Who didn't love watching his weird strats that worked perfectly.
I wish protoss liked like nal_ra now. He was so clever/cheesy!
Yeah but that's not what the poll was asking.
IMO impact means how the person influenced modern play, not how they came up with the most unique strats.
Yes, Nal_rA came up with the most unique eye-opening strats, similar to boxer, but imo Bisu has influenced modern play more.
That's just my interpretation of the poll tho
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I voted Nal_rA. Even though I'm new to the scene, after reading the brilliant write-ups in this thread (thanks Plexa) I couldn't not vote for him =)
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On May 08 2009 15:07 GTR wrote:
Bisu, and a to a smaller extent Jangbi, turned Protoss into a powerful harassment-style race.
Stork and Pusan popularized the use of Arbiters.
On May 08 2009 15:17 OneOther wrote:
close call between nal_ra and bisu for me. voted bisu though. he changed the way protoss was played with his shuttle play in all matchups. as well as many other things. i feel like the word "influential" could be interpreted in various ways but in my book bisu has been the most influential.
On May 08 2009 22:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Overall GARIMTO and Nal_rA had way more creativity, but their creativity was unique and could not always be copied directly by others. Thus for the race as a whole they had less impact. Bisu changed the game with a single strategy. The obviousness and simpleness of what Bisu did is why imo he had made more of an impact. Undeserving because I admire the other two more for what they were able to come up with.
All over ICCUP people are now doing what is credited to be Bisus legacy. Noone is doing the stuff Nal_rA and GARIMTO did. Often because the masses do not understand their moves to this day.
Stork shouldn't even be in the list.
On May 08 2009 23:21 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2009 23:10 GinNtoniC wrote:
Nal_rA
I mean are you kidding me!? Bisu? Revolutionist fine, but he's NOTHING to the dreamer.
I might come off a a troll saying this, but this poll is so obviously decided by the newcomers to the scene who haven't even seen half the people on that list play. Aaaaaaactually... To be completely honest, I voted for Bisu, for pretty much the same reasons Nazgul mentioned. Obviously Kang Min springs to mind before anyone else, but when you're talking about the race as a whole, you really can't ignore the staggering impact Bisu had. Ra's innovations were really only used by, well, Ra himself. Even back in the day when he was throwing down his forge first vs Zerg, everyone else kept 2 gating. Not because Ra's builds didn't work, but because it was something only he could pull off. Bisu's play is pretty much the de facto standard today... It's *really* hard to ignore somebody who came up with such a solid, flexible opening that is used by just about EVERY PROTOSS WHO PLAYS THE GAME from the professional level on down (not counting pub b.net games for obvious reasons). Yes, he is newer to the scene relatively speaking, and comparitively, Ra would have been more innovative and creative, but the poll is asking which Protoss had the largest impact - and as an observer of professional Starcraft for over 6 years now, I will still have to give this one to Bisu. Edit - I think a lot of veterans in this thread are taking the question to mean which Protoss was the most creative - that one would be a no brainer.
On May 08 2009 23:41 Hot_Bid wrote:
Voted Bisu, don't agree that it's Ra.
This finally put an end to the "who vote for bisu is a newbie who dont know anything".
I make yours words, mine, as influential is different from creative/innovative.
Make a parallel with USA basketball, Brazillian Football/Soccer, Japanese Judo. They are more innovative or more influential?
Voted Bisu for having a greater impact. Just because its modern it doesn´t mean the "impact" is any less than that of Nal_Ra/Garimto.
The most creative? Nal_Ra can win
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People saying "Bisu 3-0ed savior so Bisu had the greatest impact on the Protoss race" are qualifiably wrong in my opinion. I am not as good a player as many people who are arguing Bisu (obviously). But that particular argument does not hold water, just because he used a certain build to defeat a player who was considered the best in that matchup at the time.
A lot of people copy Bisu. But in my mind, when I think would Protoss play be more different if Bisu we cast into the ocean as a baby, or a meteor hit Nal_rA while he was on the playground in kindergarten, it seems like the latter case is the one in which protoss play would be more different.
Nal_rA did a lot of revolutionary stuff, and according to some people Daezang actually invented the "Bisu Build." I think Bisu is most notable for being very very good.
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Canada9720 Posts
most of the unregistered voters casting theirs for bisu have probably never seen ra or garimto play, so there ya go
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DREAMER!!!
I never did see GARIMTO play, but from everything that I know about the PL now, and about the Bisu build in general, NONE of that would have happened without Ra being there first. Nal_ra was the first to use corsair-dt (if I recall correctly), and although it was without an expo it is still worth noting that he used that first. I think that he was also the first to use forge-FE against zergs, and although he didn't do it EVERY GAME, he was the first to actually use that strat in general. Don't hate on the dreamer  .
If I'm totally wrong with this entire post, disregard everything I just said lol.
EDIT: I totally forgot about the PvT innovations lol.
Has anyone innovated PvP?
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On May 08 2009 16:55 Perguvious wrote:I really think backho deserves to be on this list. Think of all the great things he's done, like zizi yOing, suiciding zealots into mutalisks, suciding by attacking a zerg with no obs, and just suiciding his units in general. He's made everyone in the protoss race look great. + Show Spoiler +
^^ This.
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It doesn't matter who invented the build, the one who made it popular and widely used by players has more impact. One could even argue, Daezang/Nal_ra never even invented the FE build, probably some random B.net player probably did it and thus the credit would go to them.
Bisu was the one who made it popular and thus, the credit of having the FE impact for protoss should go to him.
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What's wrong with you guys?
You seriously can't compare everything Nal_rA did to Bisu.... Bisu just played very good, but pretty standard/robotic. rA invented like all the awesome and spectacular protoss strategies.
Edit: After reading Teletuby's comment... yeah, Bisu had a big impact... now all the protosses play the same with no thinking, just robots.
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United States2186 Posts
Bisu did not make FE popular at all. It was very popular a full year before he emerged.
He did make Sair/DT popular but Sair/DT was only a limited build that was especially strong against Savior because he was so slow.
rA is clearly the most influential overall, but Grrr deserves a top mention for giving Protoss a HUGE strategical lead PvT until iloveoov showed up.
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Who cares who did what the first time? Being influential is making something mainstream. I don't think hallucinating arbiters is very mainstream. I don't think I've gathered inspiration from Nal_rA in any way, much less the other protosses with the possible exception of Reach, who relied a lot on macro in an era where others didn't as much. Bisu gets my vote.
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Of course Bisu will win. Before Bisu come along and beat the daylight out of savior, Protoss wasn't such a popular race to play as it was today. While his build might not be original, his game play most definitely is. From him pulling the ultimate proxy against Pokju, his DT sneaking into Storks base in colosseum, or the simple fact that his shuttle refuse to die inspire me and i'm sure many other protoss out there to feel just how awesome our race really is. I don't know much about Nal_rA or what build he make popular. What I do know is that if it wasn't for Bisu, Protoss won't be anywhere as popular of a race as it is today. For that reason, I voted for Bisu.
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On May 09 2009 03:51 KnightOfNi wrote:
Nal_ra was the first to use corsair-dt (if I recall correctly), and although it was without an expo it is still worth noting that he used that first.
dt/sair is as old as bw
I think that he was also the first to use forge-FE against zergs, and although he didn't do it EVERY GAME, he was the first to actually use that strat in general.
I don't believe that's true. Grrrr... was using a 1gate expand at least as early as 2001. And, while my memory is a bit fuzzy, I seem to recall seeing Arang occasionally using forge first expands at around the same time.
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i guess Flash isn't a choice
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Bisu hands down. Bisu build and forge fast expand really made it easier for toss against the zerg.
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Nal-rA: I can't help but feel that we would even have seen bisu done a forge/FE against zerg if not for him. And since when is using arbiters for a recall something that protoss doesn't generally do? (I wish they didn't). Nal-rA laid the foundation for thinking outside the box for toss (IMO).
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On May 08 2009 13:56 Plexa wrote:
Anytime is probably the least likely to win this poll, but imo he's done a lot more for the game than Bisu, which sounds weird. Anytime (along with Pusan) formulated the standard protoss response to the fd rush (which was incredibly powerful back in the day) in addition to creating standard macro protoss (along with Pusan, again). Then in 2006 he basically set Bisu up for his revolution by pioneering the heavy use of Corsairs against Zerg (see anytime vs Gorush/GGPlay on Tau cross form shinhan 2) indeed his Corsair/Zealot strategy was pretty cool. In addition to that he was a part of the set of Protoss who standardized the FE.
thats very true, but bisu was the one to popularize it. If Bisu hadn't had the mechanics and multitasking and upset savior (and every other zerg with it), I'm not sure it would have caught on. Before that savior vs bisu match, some tosses would occasionally use corsairs, but after that match we saw a huge shift, not just on iccup, but in the proleagues as well, where fe into some sair variant showed up in pretty much every pvz from pretty much every protoss.
While bisu didnt invent the build or the concept, I think without him it really wouldnt have taken off suddenly like it did, when it did.
Personally I had a really tough time choosing between nal ra and bisu.
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Norway1530 Posts
I think Bisu really inspired the protoss race with his dominant play back in 2007, and in 2008 we see Stork, Jangbi, Best, Free and Kal(dragons) all doing well. I want to give some of the credit to Bisu ; )
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This isn't about who was the most inspiring, though.
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EPT
