• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:31
CEST 11:31
KST 18:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced21BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 719 users

Who has had a greater impact on the Protoss race? - Page 7

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 11 Next All
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 17:09:25
May 08 2009 17:08 GMT
#121
On May 08 2009 17:01 AttackZerg wrote:
Definately Nal_ra.

Who didn't love watching his weird strats that worked perfectly.

I wish protoss liked like nal_ra now. He was so clever/cheesy!


Yeah but that's not what the poll was asking.

IMO impact means how the person influenced modern play, not how they came up with the most unique strats.

Yes, Nal_rA came up with the most unique eye-opening strats, similar to boxer, but imo Bisu has influenced modern play more.

That's just my interpretation of the poll tho
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Mista_Masta
Profile Joined January 2009
Netherlands557 Posts
May 08 2009 17:36 GMT
#122
I voted Nal_rA. Even though I'm new to the scene, after reading the brilliant write-ups in this thread (thanks Plexa) I couldn't not vote for him =)
danieldrsa
Profile Joined June 2008
Brazil522 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 17:49:16
May 08 2009 17:47 GMT
#123
On May 08 2009 15:07 GTR wrote:
Bisu, and a to a smaller extent Jangbi, turned Protoss into a powerful harassment-style race.
Stork and Pusan popularized the use of Arbiters.


On May 08 2009 15:17 OneOther wrote:
close call between nal_ra and bisu for me. voted bisu though. he changed the way protoss was played with his shuttle play in all matchups. as well as many other things. i feel like the word "influential" could be interpreted in various ways but in my book bisu has been the most influential.

On May 08 2009 22:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Overall GARIMTO and Nal_rA had way more creativity, but their creativity was unique and could not always be copied directly by others. Thus for the race as a whole they had less impact. Bisu changed the game with a single strategy. The obviousness and simpleness of what Bisu did is why imo he had made more of an impact. Undeserving because I admire the other two more for what they were able to come up with.

All over ICCUP people are now doing what is credited to be Bisus legacy. Noone is doing the stuff Nal_rA and GARIMTO did. Often because the masses do not understand their moves to this day.

Stork shouldn't even be in the list.

On May 08 2009 23:21 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2009 23:10 GinNtoniC wrote:
Nal_rA
I mean are you kidding me!? Bisu? Revolutionist fine, but he's NOTHING to the dreamer.
I might come off a a troll saying this, but this poll is so obviously decided by the newcomers to the scene who haven't even seen half the people on that list play.


Aaaaaaactually...

To be completely honest, I voted for Bisu, for pretty much the same reasons Nazgul mentioned. Obviously Kang Min springs to mind before anyone else, but when you're talking about the race as a whole, you really can't ignore the staggering impact Bisu had. Ra's innovations were really only used by, well, Ra himself. Even back in the day when he was throwing down his forge first vs Zerg, everyone else kept 2 gating. Not because Ra's builds didn't work, but because it was something only he could pull off.

Bisu's play is pretty much the de facto standard today... It's *really* hard to ignore somebody who came up with such a solid, flexible opening that is used by just about EVERY PROTOSS WHO PLAYS THE GAME from the professional level on down (not counting pub b.net games for obvious reasons). Yes, he is newer to the scene relatively speaking, and comparitively, Ra would have been more innovative and creative, but the poll is asking which Protoss had the largest impact - and as an observer of professional Starcraft for over 6 years now, I will still have to give this one to Bisu.

Edit - I think a lot of veterans in this thread are taking the question to mean which Protoss was the most creative - that one would be a no brainer.

On May 08 2009 23:41 Hot_Bid wrote:

Voted Bisu, don't agree that it's Ra.


This finally put an end to the "who vote for bisu is a newbie who dont know anything".

I make yours words, mine, as influential is different from creative/innovative.

Make a parallel with USA basketball, Brazillian Football/Soccer, Japanese Judo. They are more innovative or more influential?

Voted Bisu for having a greater impact. Just because its modern it doesn´t mean the "impact" is any less than that of Nal_Ra/Garimto.

The most creative? Nal_Ra can win
-*-
Ancestral
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3230 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 18:08:57
May 08 2009 18:08 GMT
#124
People saying "Bisu 3-0ed savior so Bisu had the greatest impact on the Protoss race" are qualifiably wrong in my opinion. I am not as good a player as many people who are arguing Bisu (obviously). But that particular argument does not hold water, just because he used a certain build to defeat a player who was considered the best in that matchup at the time.

A lot of people copy Bisu. But in my mind, when I think would Protoss play be more different if Bisu we cast into the ocean as a baby, or a meteor hit Nal_rA while he was on the playground in kindergarten, it seems like the latter case is the one in which protoss play would be more different.

Nal_rA did a lot of revolutionary stuff, and according to some people Daezang actually invented the "Bisu Build." I think Bisu is most notable for being very very good.
The Nature and purpose of the martial way are universal; all selfish desires must be roasted in the tempering fires of hard training. - Masutatsu Oyama
CTStalker
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Canada9720 Posts
May 08 2009 18:35 GMT
#125
most of the unregistered voters casting theirs for bisu have probably never seen ra or garimto play, so there ya go
By the way, my name is Funk. I am not of your world
KnightOfNi
Profile Joined December 2007
United States1508 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 19:28:29
May 08 2009 18:51 GMT
#126
DREAMER!!!

I never did see GARIMTO play, but from everything that I know about the PL now, and about the Bisu build in general, NONE of that would have happened without Ra being there first. Nal_ra was the first to use corsair-dt (if I recall correctly), and although it was without an expo it is still worth noting that he used that first. I think that he was also the first to use forge-FE against zergs, and although he didn't do it EVERY GAME, he was the first to actually use that strat in general. Don't hate on the dreamer .

If I'm totally wrong with this entire post, disregard everything I just said lol.

EDIT: I totally forgot about the PvT innovations lol.

Has anyone innovated PvP?
RIP eSTRO :(
KnightOfNi
Profile Joined December 2007
United States1508 Posts
May 08 2009 19:00 GMT
#127
On May 08 2009 16:55 Perguvious wrote:
I really think backho deserves to be on this list. Think of all the great things he's done, like zizi yOing, suiciding zealots into mutalisks, suciding by attacking a zerg with no obs, and just suiciding his units in general.

He's made everyone in the protoss race look great.

+ Show Spoiler +
jokes are always fun (:


^^ This.
RIP eSTRO :(
Tensai176
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Canada2061 Posts
May 08 2009 19:07 GMT
#128
It doesn't matter who invented the build, the one who made it popular and widely used by players has more impact. One could even argue, Daezang/Nal_ra never even invented the FE build, probably some random B.net player probably did it and thus the credit would go to them.

Bisu was the one who made it popular and thus, the credit of having the FE impact for protoss should go to him.
We see things they'll never see
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 19:13:09
May 08 2009 19:11 GMT
#129
What's wrong with you guys?

You seriously can't compare everything Nal_rA did to Bisu.... Bisu just played very good, but pretty standard/robotic. rA invented like all the awesome and spectacular protoss strategies.

Edit: After reading Teletuby's comment... yeah, Bisu had a big impact... now all the protosses play the same with no thinking, just robots.
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
May 08 2009 19:13 GMT
#130
Bisu did not make FE popular at all. It was very popular a full year before he emerged.

He did make Sair/DT popular but Sair/DT was only a limited build that was especially strong against Savior because he was so slow.

rA is clearly the most influential overall, but Grrr deserves a top mention for giving Protoss a HUGE strategical lead PvT until iloveoov showed up.
Liquipedia
TS-Rupbar
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Sweden1089 Posts
May 08 2009 19:23 GMT
#131
Who cares who did what the first time? Being influential is making something mainstream. I don't think hallucinating arbiters is very mainstream. I don't think I've gathered inspiration from Nal_rA in any way, much less the other protosses with the possible exception of Reach, who relied a lot on macro in an era where others didn't as much. Bisu gets my vote.
Naib
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Hungary4843 Posts
May 08 2009 19:33 GMT
#132
rA
Complete the cycle!
Yamoth
Profile Joined February 2009
United States315 Posts
May 08 2009 19:36 GMT
#133
Of course Bisu will win. Before Bisu come along and beat the daylight out of savior, Protoss wasn't such a popular race to play as it was today. While his build might not be original, his game play most definitely is. From him pulling the ultimate proxy against Pokju, his DT sneaking into Storks base in colosseum, or the simple fact that his shuttle refuse to die inspire me and i'm sure many other protoss out there to feel just how awesome our race really is. I don't know much about Nal_rA or what build he make popular. What I do know is that if it wasn't for Bisu, Protoss won't be anywhere as popular of a race as it is today. For that reason, I voted for Bisu.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 19:42:33
May 08 2009 19:40 GMT
#134
On May 09 2009 03:51 KnightOfNi wrote:
Nal_ra was the first to use corsair-dt (if I recall correctly), and although it was without an expo it is still worth noting that he used that first.


dt/sair is as old as bw

I think that he was also the first to use forge-FE against zergs, and although he didn't do it EVERY GAME, he was the first to actually use that strat in general.


I don't believe that's true. Grrrr... was using a 1gate expand at least as early as 2001. And, while my memory is a bit fuzzy, I seem to recall seeing Arang occasionally using forge first expands at around the same time.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
kramus
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States1259 Posts
May 08 2009 19:54 GMT
#135
i guess Flash isn't a choice
XATMO8G
Profile Joined May 2009
United States7 Posts
May 08 2009 20:43 GMT
#136
Bisu hands down. Bisu build and forge fast expand really made it easier for toss against the zerg.
Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18918 Posts
May 08 2009 20:49 GMT
#137
Nal-rA: I can't help but feel that we would even have seen bisu done a forge/FE against zerg if not for him. And since when is using arbiters for a recall something that protoss doesn't generally do? (I wish they didn't). Nal-rA laid the foundation for thinking outside the box for toss (IMO).
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
May 08 2009 20:53 GMT
#138
On May 08 2009 13:56 Plexa wrote:
Anytime is probably the least likely to win this poll, but imo he's done a lot more for the game than Bisu, which sounds weird. Anytime (along with Pusan) formulated the standard protoss response to the fd rush (which was incredibly powerful back in the day) in addition to creating standard macro protoss (along with Pusan, again). Then in 2006 he basically set Bisu up for his revolution by pioneering the heavy use of Corsairs against Zerg (see anytime vs Gorush/GGPlay on Tau cross form shinhan 2) indeed his Corsair/Zealot strategy was pretty cool. In addition to that he was a part of the set of Protoss who standardized the FE.


thats very true, but bisu was the one to popularize it. If Bisu hadn't had the mechanics and multitasking and upset savior (and every other zerg with it), I'm not sure it would have caught on. Before that savior vs bisu match, some tosses would occasionally use corsairs, but after that match we saw a huge shift, not just on iccup, but in the proleagues as well, where fe into some sair variant showed up in pretty much every pvz from pretty much every protoss.

While bisu didnt invent the build or the concept, I think without him it really wouldnt have taken off suddenly like it did, when it did.

Personally I had a really tough time choosing between nal ra and bisu.
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Jonvvv
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Norway1530 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-08 20:56:49
May 08 2009 20:56 GMT
#139
I think Bisu really inspired the protoss race with his dominant play back in 2007, and in 2008 we see Stork, Jangbi, Best, Free and Kal(dragons) all doing well. I want to give some of the credit to Bisu ; )
Liquipedia
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
May 08 2009 21:00 GMT
#140
This isn't about who was the most inspiring, though.
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Krystianer vs sOs
SKillous vs ArT
MaNa vs Elazer
Spirit vs Gerald
Clem vs TBD
uThermal vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
ComeBackTV 535
RotterdaM481
IndyStarCraft 273
CranKy Ducklings106
3DClanTV 78
Rex64
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 481
IndyStarCraft 273
Rex 64
ProTech56
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 3956
firebathero 1054
Hyun 697
Mini 641
Larva 631
BeSt 224
EffOrt 133
Backho 110
Mind 108
ZerO 88
[ Show more ]
zelot 51
Free 49
sorry 37
scan(afreeca) 35
Noble 34
Shinee 28
Sacsri 27
Bale 25
Sharp 24
soO 24
NaDa 10
IntoTheRainbow 9
yabsab 8
Dota 2
XcaliburYe561
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1163
shoxiejesuss442
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor244
Other Games
gofns7448
Happy427
SortOf158
Beastyqt131
ZerO(Twitch)20
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH373
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV440
• lizZardDota2191
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4h 29m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
8h 29m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.