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The tunnel vision in this thread is somewhat annoying. I'm simultaneously hearing that Flash's OSL win didn't count for as much because he had easy opponents giving him a free ride, but that his drubbing of Jaedong in said OSL also doesn't count because it was a month ago. Can you really have it both ways?
Then there's saying something obtusely insular such as that Jaedong's win ratio is higher so far this month despite having played half as many games as Flash. Using similarly simple math, one could say that 1 gold + 1 silver > 1 gold.
Or saying that the Bo5 in the MSL Finals was ultimately definitive and answered the question once and for all. Sigh, MBC.. The only thing determinable from that series was that neither the last game nor the final score were truly representative. There's always going to be a question mark on it. Despite what that lame visual studio would have you believe, that last game was not played in a vacuum. Unfortunate stuff happened, and there was no way Flash went unaffected. If anything, the 8rax indicated Flash's desire to get the game over with quickly, for good or bad.
I love both Flash and Jaedong, but objectively, Flash should retain the top spot.
Edit: Few seconds too late on the math. T.T, TTT.
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Just an observation, but shouldn't Flash's two ace wins in January-against Stork and Calm-be measured in the mix as well? In both of those matches he won both his scheduled game and the ace match, and in doing so kept KT's strong lead in the PL standings. In the set he did drop to Really KT was already down 2-0 in the match.
A gold, a silver, and saving his team's bacon in PL in the same month. His play wasn't quite at the untouchable stratospheric level of Nov/Dec, but I think the scheduling stress+overall much higher quality of players played makes up for it.
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On January 25 2010 05:03 jalstar wrote:
savior stayed at #1 after Bisu 3-0ed him.
Because Jaedong is new to the scene, whereas Flash has been the dominant player for years. Riiiiiight. Nevermind Jaedong just won his third consecutive starleague, and Flash just won his first starleague in a year and a half.
On January 24 2010 21:04 InFdude wrote:
Again with the 4th game shit . Flash went barracks first and JD had a 9 pool .Wake up ppl .
JD didn't go 9pool, he went overpool. And Flash didn't go 8rax, he went 7rax. Jaedong predicted Flash's cheese, and took a huge-but-safe economic lead. Flash had the choice to play a macro game from a very large disadvantage, or go all-in. He chose the latter, and lost.
Where was the out-of-game drama every other time Flash 7raxed?
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This is going to be one hard power rank for the top 2 spots. Flash and JD. Which one? Both have accomplished things unheard of this month. On one side you have Flash playing the greatest T v everything ever seen, who has also led his team to the rank #1 spot in proleague, and on the other side you have the current reigning tyrant, the greatest Zerg player of all time, JD, who now owns a ZvP record, iirc a third starleague championship in a row, and defeated the hottest player this month 3-1 in the finals.
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On January 25 2010 06:17 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 05:03 jalstar wrote:
savior stayed at #1 after Bisu 3-0ed him. Because Jaedong is new to the scene, whereas Flash has been the dominant player for years. Riiiiiight. Nevermind Jaedong just won his third consecutive starleague, and Flash just won his first starleague in a year and a half. Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 21:04 InFdude wrote:
Again with the 4th game shit . Flash went barracks first and JD had a 9 pool .Wake up ppl . JD didn't go 9pool, he went overpool. And Flash didn't go 8rax, he went 7rax. Jaedong predicted Flash's cheese, and took a huge-but-safe economic lead. Flash had the choice to play a macro game from a very large disadvantage, or go all-in. He chose the latter, and lost. Where was the out-of-game drama every other time Flash 7raxed?
Because of the circumstances surrounding the MSL, particularly Flash's mental state in game 4 - which, mind you, had nothing to do with Jaedong's mental game - it's really difficult to determine whether Flash would have been outplayed that entire series if the blackout did not occur.
People who understand the game far better than you or I (Such as IdrA) felt that Flash had a fighting chance in Game 3, pre-blackout, and Flash outplayed Jaedong in the second set.
Regardless, Flash has been doing better in Proleague, won a legitimate OSL, and has been more dominant overall than Jaedong. Without question, he deserves the number one spot.
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On January 25 2010 07:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 06:17 Severedevil wrote:On January 25 2010 05:03 jalstar wrote:
savior stayed at #1 after Bisu 3-0ed him. Because Jaedong is new to the scene, whereas Flash has been the dominant player for years. Riiiiiight. Nevermind Jaedong just won his third consecutive starleague, and Flash just won his first starleague in a year and a half. On January 24 2010 21:04 InFdude wrote:
Again with the 4th game shit . Flash went barracks first and JD had a 9 pool .Wake up ppl . JD didn't go 9pool, he went overpool. And Flash didn't go 8rax, he went 7rax. Jaedong predicted Flash's cheese, and took a huge-but-safe economic lead. Flash had the choice to play a macro game from a very large disadvantage, or go all-in. He chose the latter, and lost. Where was the out-of-game drama every other time Flash 7raxed? Because of the circumstances surrounding the MSL, particularly Flash's mental state in game 4 - which, mind you, had nothing to do with Jaedong's mental game - it's really difficult to determine whether Flash would have been outplayed that entire series if the blackout did not occur. People who understand the game far better than you or I (Such as IdrA) felt that Flash had a fighting chance in Game 3, pre-blackout, and Flash outplayed Jaedong in the second set. Regardless, Flash has been doing better in Proleague, won a legitimate OSL, and has been more dominant overall than Jaedong. Without question, he deserves the number one spot.
Did Idra really say that? I thought he said the opposite; that JD's advantage was decisive. Can you give a source?
Did people take into account JD's problems with KeSPA (the free agancy thing) last season? It's not a critique, I'm only curious... If not, I don't think they should care about Flash's mental state in game 4. If they did, you have a point.
I think JD completely outclassed Flash in the MSL finals. Even in game 2 he had a good shot at winning the game imo. But I still believe - even though I'm a huge JD fan - that Flash should keep the #1 spot in the Power Rank - he has just owned so hard lately that one series shouldn't be able to take that away from him.
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rofl you quoted yourself.
And yes they took into account Jaedong's struggle. Plexa even wrote a FE on it. That Jaedong took the Golden Mouse through all the nasty losses and FA was amazing and he was given #1 over Fantasy.
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On January 25 2010 07:18 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 07:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 25 2010 06:17 Severedevil wrote:On January 25 2010 05:03 jalstar wrote:
savior stayed at #1 after Bisu 3-0ed him. Because Jaedong is new to the scene, whereas Flash has been the dominant player for years. Riiiiiight. Nevermind Jaedong just won his third consecutive starleague, and Flash just won his first starleague in a year and a half. On January 24 2010 21:04 InFdude wrote:
Again with the 4th game shit . Flash went barracks first and JD had a 9 pool .Wake up ppl . JD didn't go 9pool, he went overpool. And Flash didn't go 8rax, he went 7rax. Jaedong predicted Flash's cheese, and took a huge-but-safe economic lead. Flash had the choice to play a macro game from a very large disadvantage, or go all-in. He chose the latter, and lost. Where was the out-of-game drama every other time Flash 7raxed? Because of the circumstances surrounding the MSL, particularly Flash's mental state in game 4 - which, mind you, had nothing to do with Jaedong's mental game - it's really difficult to determine whether Flash would have been outplayed that entire series if the blackout did not occur. People who understand the game far better than you or I (Such as IdrA) felt that Flash had a fighting chance in Game 3, pre-blackout, and Flash outplayed Jaedong in the second set. Regardless, Flash has been doing better in Proleague, won a legitimate OSL, and has been more dominant overall than Jaedong. Without question, he deserves the number one spot. Did Idra really say that? I thought he said the opposite; that JD's advantage was decisive. Can you give a source? Did people take into account JD's problems with KeSPA (the free agancy thing) last season? It's not a critique, I'm only curious... If not, I don't think they should care about Flash's mental state in game 4. If they did, you have a point. I think JD completely outclassed Flash in the MSL finals. Even in game 2 he had a good shot at winning the game imo. But I still believe - even though I'm a huge JD fan - that Flash should keep the #1 spot in the Power Rank - he has just owned so hard lately that one series shouldn't be able to take that away from him.
Outclassed? Come on.
Game one - Flash stupidly forgot to add turrets. If Flash defended against the muta harass, the game would of been up for grabs.
Game two - Flash showing his remarkable skills and micro.
Game three - Flash could of ended that game earlier if he had known that Jaedong's main and natural was totally unguarded. Of course we wouldn't know who really would of won because of the black out.
Game four - Jaedong countered a predictable bunker rush from Flash. If the game went into mid and late game, Flash could of won.
I still think Flash is better at late game compared to Jaedong. Of course Flash will get his revenge in the 26th.
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On January 25 2010 07:35 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 07:18 Elroi wrote:On January 25 2010 07:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 25 2010 06:17 Severedevil wrote:On January 25 2010 05:03 jalstar wrote:
savior stayed at #1 after Bisu 3-0ed him. Because Jaedong is new to the scene, whereas Flash has been the dominant player for years. Riiiiiight. Nevermind Jaedong just won his third consecutive starleague, and Flash just won his first starleague in a year and a half. On January 24 2010 21:04 InFdude wrote:
Again with the 4th game shit . Flash went barracks first and JD had a 9 pool .Wake up ppl . JD didn't go 9pool, he went overpool. And Flash didn't go 8rax, he went 7rax. Jaedong predicted Flash's cheese, and took a huge-but-safe economic lead. Flash had the choice to play a macro game from a very large disadvantage, or go all-in. He chose the latter, and lost. Where was the out-of-game drama every other time Flash 7raxed? Because of the circumstances surrounding the MSL, particularly Flash's mental state in game 4 - which, mind you, had nothing to do with Jaedong's mental game - it's really difficult to determine whether Flash would have been outplayed that entire series if the blackout did not occur. People who understand the game far better than you or I (Such as IdrA) felt that Flash had a fighting chance in Game 3, pre-blackout, and Flash outplayed Jaedong in the second set. Regardless, Flash has been doing better in Proleague, won a legitimate OSL, and has been more dominant overall than Jaedong. Without question, he deserves the number one spot. Did Idra really say that? I thought he said the opposite; that JD's advantage was decisive. Can you give a source? Did people take into account JD's problems with KeSPA (the free agancy thing) last season? It's not a critique, I'm only curious... If not, I don't think they should care about Flash's mental state in game 4. If they did, you have a point. I think JD completely outclassed Flash in the MSL finals. Even in game 2 he had a good shot at winning the game imo. But I still believe - even though I'm a huge JD fan - that Flash should keep the #1 spot in the Power Rank - he has just owned so hard lately that one series shouldn't be able to take that away from him. Outclassed? Come on. Game one - Flash stupidly forgot to add turrets. If Flash defended against the muta harass, the game would of been up for grabs. Game two - Flash showing his remarkable skills and micro. Game three - Flash could of ended that game earlier if he had known that Jaedong's main and natural was totally unguarded. Of course we wouldn't know who really would of won because of the black out. Game four - Jaedong countered a predictable bunker rush from Flash. If the game went into mid and late game, Flash could of won. I still think Flash is better at late game compared to Jaedong. Of course Flash will get his revenge in the 26th.
Nice try, troll.
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On January 25 2010 07:22 TwoToneTerran wrote:
rofl you quoted yourself.
And yes they took into account Jaedong's struggle. Plexa even wrote a FE on it. That Jaedong took the Golden Mouse through all the nasty losses and FA was amazing and he was given #1 over Fantasy.
nope, JD beat fantasy in the semis, and that counted, not the FA thing.
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On January 25 2010 07:35 FireGuyX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 07:18 Elroi wrote:On January 25 2010 07:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 25 2010 06:17 Severedevil wrote:On January 25 2010 05:03 jalstar wrote:
savior stayed at #1 after Bisu 3-0ed him. Because Jaedong is new to the scene, whereas Flash has been the dominant player for years. Riiiiiight. Nevermind Jaedong just won his third consecutive starleague, and Flash just won his first starleague in a year and a half. On January 24 2010 21:04 InFdude wrote:
Again with the 4th game shit . Flash went barracks first and JD had a 9 pool .Wake up ppl . JD didn't go 9pool, he went overpool. And Flash didn't go 8rax, he went 7rax. Jaedong predicted Flash's cheese, and took a huge-but-safe economic lead. Flash had the choice to play a macro game from a very large disadvantage, or go all-in. He chose the latter, and lost. Where was the out-of-game drama every other time Flash 7raxed? Because of the circumstances surrounding the MSL, particularly Flash's mental state in game 4 - which, mind you, had nothing to do with Jaedong's mental game - it's really difficult to determine whether Flash would have been outplayed that entire series if the blackout did not occur. People who understand the game far better than you or I (Such as IdrA) felt that Flash had a fighting chance in Game 3, pre-blackout, and Flash outplayed Jaedong in the second set. Regardless, Flash has been doing better in Proleague, won a legitimate OSL, and has been more dominant overall than Jaedong. Without question, he deserves the number one spot. Did Idra really say that? I thought he said the opposite; that JD's advantage was decisive. Can you give a source? Did people take into account JD's problems with KeSPA (the free agancy thing) last season? It's not a critique, I'm only curious... If not, I don't think they should care about Flash's mental state in game 4. If they did, you have a point. I think JD completely outclassed Flash in the MSL finals. Even in game 2 he had a good shot at winning the game imo. But I still believe - even though I'm a huge JD fan - that Flash should keep the #1 spot in the Power Rank - he has just owned so hard lately that one series shouldn't be able to take that away from him. Outclassed? Come on. Game one - Flash stupidly forgot to add turrets. If Flash defended against the muta harass, the game would of been up for grabs. Game two - Flash showing his remarkable skills and micro. Game three - Flash could of ended that game earlier if he had known that Jaedong's main and natural was totally unguarded. Of course we wouldn't know who really would of won because of the black out. Game four - Jaedong countered a predictable bunker rush from Flash. If the game went into mid and late game, Flash could of won. I still think Flash is better at late game compared to Jaedong. Of course Flash will get his revenge in the 26th.
nope nope nope. game 1, it was flash believing in his m&m control vs jaedong's mutas to control his main. he loaded turrets at his nat, but due to unit pathing and miscontrol, jaedong owned a handful of rines behind the mineral line. in the main, jaedong put on a micro clinic demolishing flash with superb micro that is reminiscent of when jaedong was on his z v t tear.
game 2, it was a great game up until jaedong went guardians. i dont think he has EVER won a game iwht guardians, but if he kept muta harassing hsi main, jaedong would have had a closer game going on. with the guardians dieing, it signified the end of the standing army and flash capitalized at this moment and killed jaedong with one great drop. props to flash, it was a sick move.
game 3, fantastic game. both players showed crazy micro, insane macro, and great gamesense.
flash's macro was omfg jaw droppign crazy. jaedong's flanks, defenses, vessel sniping and late game management is one to be talked about for the ages. before the blackout, flash had just started mining out of his third mineral only (which is flankable on 3 sides) 30 seconds earlier, flash's main was mined out, his natural was running out (you can see the minerals dissapearing in the vod), he also only had 10 marines, 6 medics, and 2 vessels who didnt even have mana to irradiate two defilers at jaedongs's 7oclock.
jaedong on the other hand had 5 gasses up (7oclock double gas, nat, 3rd and main). he also was putting up expo at 1oclock which would have pushed him to 6 gas zerg. he had all his tech up. both were maxed out on upgrades. he had been keeping flash's vessel count EXTREMELY low.
he had streams of units heading toward his 7oclock on minimap (dont know what they were but zerglings or ultras, they both would be invincible under swarm). all jaedong had to do was swarm/zling and his ults that were still alive and force the third to lift for flash. and since had such incredible macro througout the game, do you really believe he had 3000 in the bank? nah, jaedong pretty much had the game 99% of the time. it was incredible, but we all know jaedong had it in the bag and if you claim otherwise, you don't play sc.
it still is unfair flash wasn't given a chance to fight for that 1% chance to win, but its not kespa's fault, they dealt with the situation best they could, but mbc's fault. to reward a rematch after set 3 blackout would have been a terrible blow to jaedong after coming back from behind. it was shit situation.
game 4 was simple. flash did 7rax just like in osl, jaedong soul read him with his incredible star sense and preceded to overpool. flash was behind from that point on, and especially after he let the zergling scout his main when he coulda just parted firebat / scv at ramp. game over after that.
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On January 25 2010 07:41 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 07:35 FireGuyX wrote:On January 25 2010 07:18 Elroi wrote:On January 25 2010 07:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 25 2010 06:17 Severedevil wrote:On January 25 2010 05:03 jalstar wrote:
savior stayed at #1 after Bisu 3-0ed him. Because Jaedong is new to the scene, whereas Flash has been the dominant player for years. Riiiiiight. Nevermind Jaedong just won his third consecutive starleague, and Flash just won his first starleague in a year and a half. On January 24 2010 21:04 InFdude wrote:
Again with the 4th game shit . Flash went barracks first and JD had a 9 pool .Wake up ppl . JD didn't go 9pool, he went overpool. And Flash didn't go 8rax, he went 7rax. Jaedong predicted Flash's cheese, and took a huge-but-safe economic lead. Flash had the choice to play a macro game from a very large disadvantage, or go all-in. He chose the latter, and lost. Where was the out-of-game drama every other time Flash 7raxed? Because of the circumstances surrounding the MSL, particularly Flash's mental state in game 4 - which, mind you, had nothing to do with Jaedong's mental game - it's really difficult to determine whether Flash would have been outplayed that entire series if the blackout did not occur. People who understand the game far better than you or I (Such as IdrA) felt that Flash had a fighting chance in Game 3, pre-blackout, and Flash outplayed Jaedong in the second set. Regardless, Flash has been doing better in Proleague, won a legitimate OSL, and has been more dominant overall than Jaedong. Without question, he deserves the number one spot. Did Idra really say that? I thought he said the opposite; that JD's advantage was decisive. Can you give a source? Did people take into account JD's problems with KeSPA (the free agancy thing) last season? It's not a critique, I'm only curious... If not, I don't think they should care about Flash's mental state in game 4. If they did, you have a point. I think JD completely outclassed Flash in the MSL finals. Even in game 2 he had a good shot at winning the game imo. But I still believe - even though I'm a huge JD fan - that Flash should keep the #1 spot in the Power Rank - he has just owned so hard lately that one series shouldn't be able to take that away from him. Outclassed? Come on. Game one - Flash stupidly forgot to add turrets. If Flash defended against the muta harass, the game would of been up for grabs. Game two - Flash showing his remarkable skills and micro. Game three - Flash could of ended that game earlier if he had known that Jaedong's main and natural was totally unguarded. Of course we wouldn't know who really would of won because of the black out. Game four - Jaedong countered a predictable bunker rush from Flash. If the game went into mid and late game, Flash could of won. I still think Flash is better at late game compared to Jaedong. Of course Flash will get his revenge in the 26th. Nice try, troll.
Stick to SC, troll.
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On January 25 2010 07:43 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 07:22 TwoToneTerran wrote:
rofl you quoted yourself.
And yes they took into account Jaedong's struggle. Plexa even wrote a FE on it. That Jaedong took the Golden Mouse through all the nasty losses and FA was amazing and he was given #1 over Fantasy. nope, JD beat fantasy in the semis, and that counted, not the FA thing.
I think you lack reading comprehension.
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United States4789 Posts
I'm a big big Jaedong fan, but Flash deserves the number 1 this month (barring the WL match)
However the advantage was in Game 3, Game 4 was not the Flash we expected to see. Jaedong's victory was hollow, and not indicative of true player strength.
Considering Flash's historic form, his 1 Gold 1 Silver month, it would be a shame not to put him.
Jaedong though is clearly the strongest number 2 that this ranking will have ever seen.
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Honestly, I just hope Kwanro moves up. TL.net in general seems to never give him the credit he deserves. Unless he does something very stupid I expect him to be 5th place for this month.
As far as the top two slots, I think that all depends on the winner's league match. Who ever dominates in that (unless both get killed off?) should be #1. If neither actually get to play I would hand the slight edge to Flash despite being a huge JD fan.
Sea needs to be removed from the list entirely and both Shine and Zero can move down a few slots.
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The MSL loss will just make Flash even more determined to win dual titles next season.
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On January 25 2010 09:06 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 07:43 Jaeden wrote:On January 25 2010 07:22 TwoToneTerran wrote:
rofl you quoted yourself.
And yes they took into account Jaedong's struggle. Plexa even wrote a FE on it. That Jaedong took the Golden Mouse through all the nasty losses and FA was amazing and he was given #1 over Fantasy. nope, JD beat fantasy in the semis, and that counted, not the FA thing. I think you lack reading comprehension.
you're trying to say that if the FA issues didn`t happen, Fantasy would`ve been in the #1 spot, which is false. JD just beat him in the semis, and he also got to the msl semis.
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Nope, not what I'm saying, but I'm glad you can read my mind.
I was saying that the effect of FA on Jaedong only served to highlight his status, just like Flash's schedule and the power problems serve to mitigate him right now. There's never *1* thing that completely defines who should be #1 and #2, usually.
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On January 25 2010 16:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Nope, not what I'm saying, but I'm glad you can read my mind.
I was saying that the effect of FA on Jaedong only served to highlight his status, just like Flash's schedule and the power problems serve to mitigate him right now. There's never *1* thing that completely defines who should be #1 and #2, usually.
yes but it didn`t influence the spots.
And people before u argued that it should/shouldn`t. And you then replied to them.
So yeah, if I didn`t catch the idea my bad..
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EPT
