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8748 Posts
Now you're just trying to discredit me? You haven't posted any evidence to discredit me. Everything there is compatible with what I said happened. We scheduled the lag test for an entire 24 hour period and we were online at different times. I didn't fail to come through. As for the b.net conversation, in your first post, you cut out 90% of the conversation we had. I responded by accounting for the rest of the conversation and also acknowledging that snippet. You respond by posting the snippet and calling me a liar. Unless you're going to somehow prove that we didn't have a conversation, you have no point.
Why would you even take that screenshot? You needed to remember that I said I'd reschedule? It seems like you took that screenshot just in case you could find a reason to post it on a forum. Bad intentions from the start?
I've done nothing to antagonize you. No responsible manager publicly attacks the character of his players' opponents. You're way out of line here. Since you seem to like using the Koreans as a reference, I can assure you that none of the Korean team managers act in the way you are right now. My job was to inform you and an admin that I was stopping the match, why I was stopping the match, and whether or not I'd reschedule. I did all of those things immediately. Your job was to inform F91 what was going on, to report to the admin and to talk to F91 about rescheduling if there's a reschedule. Nothing else. Your job is NOT to coerce your player's opponent into playing a match. Your job is NOT to question your player's opponent's decision. Your job is NOT to antagonize your player's opponent.
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On March 21 2009 20:01 lxginverse wrote:
its better late than never
hoping that it wouldnt lag next week....
You mean "Better nate than lever?"
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On March 21 2009 20:57 -orb- wrote:
Ash are you on a crusade against nony?
You seem hell-bent on ruining his reputation and everyone's view of him.
You should have just posted your first message and left it at that. You lost all weight in that message in my eyes because clearly you have some personal problem with him that's illustrated in your repeated posting with every post being an insult to nony.
Get off the high horse and get over whatever it is you're butthurt about, people aren't going to listen to a troll like you.
My thoughts exactly
No responsible manager publicly attacks the character of his players' opponents. You're way out of line here.
QFT
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On March 23 2009 03:20 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Now you're just trying to discredit me? You haven't posted any evidence to discredit me. Everything there is compatible with what I said happened. We scheduled the lag test for an entire 24 hour period and we were online at different times. I didn't fail to come through. As for the b.net conversation, in your first post, you cut out 90% of the conversation we had. I responded by accounting for the rest of the conversation and also acknowledging that snippet. You respond by posting the snippet and calling me a liar. Unless you're going to somehow prove that we didn't have a conversation, you have no point.
Why would you even take that screenshot? You needed to remember that I said I'd reschedule? It seems like you took that screenshot just in case you could find a reason to post it on a forum. Bad intentions from the start?
I've done nothing to antagonize you. No responsible manager publicly attacks the character of his players' opponents. You're way out of line here. Since you seem to like using the Koreans as a reference, I can assure you that none of the Korean team managers act in the way you are right now. My job was to inform you and an admin that I was stopping the match, why I was stopping the match, and whether or not I'd reschedule. I did all of those things immediately. Your job was to inform F91 what was going on, to report to the admin and to talk to F91 about rescheduling if there's a reschedule. Nothing else. Your job is NOT to coerce your player's opponent into playing a match. Your job is NOT to question your player's opponent's decision. Your job is NOT to antagonize your player's opponent.
Didn't you just mention in your previous posts about how you didn't say what I said, you didn't start anything with 'fuck' and the very last thing you said was that I shouldn't schedule matches with Chinese players at all? If it's not lying then tell me what it is?
Sure you're going to say I cut out 90% of the conversation , that was expected. The reason why I did not post the other conversation is because it only happened like 1 hour after you left the server and came back in as SCL-NonY, that's when we really had a talk about the reasons why you left and discuss about the reschedule. I would be more than willing to upload the whole screenshots of our conversation if you want. Screenshots would show that our conversations only happened when you had a different logged in ID. I took them just as a backup incase anything happens because there wasn't any admin around. I've stated in my first post that all my posts are my point of views so it has nothing to do with my manager position in Fnatic. I am defending f91 as a friend of his because it's sad how people always try to take advantage or steal credits from the non english speakers just because people think they wont be able to defend themselves. I am here to inform the community what really happened, period.
Note: I could've uploaded all the screenshots earlier for others to judge but I refused to because I think what I've previously said is more than enough. I only did it now because you were obviously twisting the fact and I needed to provide a proof of how you did it.
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On March 23 2009 03:28 Ash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2009 03:20 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Now you're just trying to discredit me? You haven't posted any evidence to discredit me. Everything there is compatible with what I said happened. We scheduled the lag test for an entire 24 hour period and we were online at different times. I didn't fail to come through. As for the b.net conversation, in your first post, you cut out 90% of the conversation we had. I responded by accounting for the rest of the conversation and also acknowledging that snippet. You respond by posting the snippet and calling me a liar. Unless you're going to somehow prove that we didn't have a conversation, you have no point.
Why would you even take that screenshot? You needed to remember that I said I'd reschedule? It seems like you took that screenshot just in case you could find a reason to post it on a forum. Bad intentions from the start?
I've done nothing to antagonize you. No responsible manager publicly attacks the character of his players' opponents. You're way out of line here. Since you seem to like using the Koreans as a reference, I can assure you that none of the Korean team managers act in the way you are right now. My job was to inform you and an admin that I was stopping the match, why I was stopping the match, and whether or not I'd reschedule. I did all of those things immediately. Your job was to inform F91 what was going on, to report to the admin and to talk to F91 about rescheduling if there's a reschedule. Nothing else. Your job is NOT to coerce your player's opponent into playing a match. Your job is NOT to question your player's opponent's decision. Your job is NOT to antagonize your player's opponent. Sure you're going to say I cut out 90% of the conversation , that was expected. The reason why I did not post the other conversation is because it only happened like 1 hour after you left the server and came back in as SCL-NonY, that's when we really had a talk about the reasons why you left and discuss about the reschedule. I would be more than willing to upload the whole screenshots of our conversation if you want. Screenshots would show that our conversations only happened when you had a different logged in ID. I took them just as a backup incase anything happens because there wasn't any admin around. I've stated in my first post that all my posts are my point of views so it has nothing to do with my manager position in Fnatic. I am defending f91 as a friend of his because it's sad how people always try to take advantage or steal credits from the non english speakers just because people think they wont be able to defend themselves. I am here to inform the community what really happened, period.
what are you blithering about
no ones stealing his credit, and the vast majority of the time your players do lag with foreigners. saying so isnt a crime or even an insult, its an annoying reality that most players would rather not deal with. believe it or not when players are forced to deal with something like that they get frusterated.. but nony didnt even say anything personally insulting or even all that rude. so why do you keep posting?
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The bottom line is if one of the players believes that the lag will be so bad, that it will affect their gameplay severely, they have every right to reschedule until the conditions are better or cancel altogether.
Ash, and supporters, please don't come in here riding on your high horse, bitching about how Nony was unprofessional, we all know how frustrating is lag, and to take one word 'fuck' and to make it look like it's the end of the world is nothing but trolling. Your TLDR posts about something so trivial and common as lag are just a waste of everyone's time.
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On March 23 2009 03:24 Goosey wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:57 -orb- wrote:
Ash are you on a crusade against nony?
You seem hell-bent on ruining his reputation and everyone's view of him.
You should have just posted your first message and left it at that. You lost all weight in that message in my eyes because clearly you have some personal problem with him that's illustrated in your repeated posting with every post being an insult to nony.
Get off the high horse and get over whatever it is you're butthurt about, people aren't going to listen to a troll like you. My thoughts exactly Show nested quote +No responsible manager publicly attacks the character of his players' opponents. You're way out of line here. QFT
+1. Seriously, being a neutral party here (I don't really know anything about any of these players here), I've lost any respect for what Ash has to say in this thread, because he is accusing Nony of bad sportsmanship in an even lower, less classy way. If everything Ash says about Nony is exactly true, I would have agreed with him, but the unnecessary constant attacks just ruin it for me.
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On March 23 2009 03:59 bludragen88 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2009 03:24 Goosey wrote:On March 21 2009 20:57 -orb- wrote:
Ash are you on a crusade against nony?
You seem hell-bent on ruining his reputation and everyone's view of him.
You should have just posted your first message and left it at that. You lost all weight in that message in my eyes because clearly you have some personal problem with him that's illustrated in your repeated posting with every post being an insult to nony.
Get off the high horse and get over whatever it is you're butthurt about, people aren't going to listen to a troll like you. My thoughts exactly No responsible manager publicly attacks the character of his players' opponents. You're way out of line here. QFT +1. Seriously, being a neutral party here (I don't really know anything about any of these players here), I've lost any respect for what Ash has to say in this thread, because he is accusing Nony of bad sportsmanship in an even lower, less classy way. If everything Ash says about Nony is exactly true, I would have agreed with him, but the unnecessary constant attacks just ruin it for me.
I sincerely understand what you think about me. To me my original intention wasn't to attack nony constantly. I just wanted to explain to people the whole situation of what really happened. I wouldn't deny the fact that I could've done it at a better way but it just pisses me off when I see such things happen. I knew I had to stand up for F91. I'm willing to apologize if I've said anything more than what really happened. I've said I would have no problems if the lag really happened but
On March 22 2009 08:44 Turbovolver wrote:
I skipped to the end of the thread after page 4.
If I had to read one more comment about "China is used to this lag but the rest of the world isn't" I'd probably blow my top.
I live in Australia. When I connect to iccup and type /ping, I consider 350 a good value for a return. Yet when I go and play games, with Lan Latency, there are rarely issues, and if there are they are quickly fixed by switching over to High Latency in Network Settings.
(You'll notice that 350 is a much higher number than 200 which someone quoted for China.)
Now, maybe Nony didn't want to play on High Latency because he is used to perfect conditions, and I don't necessarily fault him for that. But all you people talking about "two seconds of delay" and Chinese players just being used to playing in "b-net like lag" really need to get a clue, because I highly doubt it's like that.
Is it so hard to believe Nony was exaggerating?
this guy has explained the EXACT situation of the games which Nony was obviously exaggerating bout how slow his units actually responded. Other than that I'm also not really happy with his lies or story twisting skills. I really did not have anything against nony before this but now I'd admit i think hes a big liar. Anyone with an unbiased view would be able to notice that.
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On March 23 2009 04:07 Ash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2009 03:59 bludragen88 wrote:On March 23 2009 03:24 Goosey wrote:On March 21 2009 20:57 -orb- wrote:
Ash are you on a crusade against nony?
You seem hell-bent on ruining his reputation and everyone's view of him.
You should have just posted your first message and left it at that. You lost all weight in that message in my eyes because clearly you have some personal problem with him that's illustrated in your repeated posting with every post being an insult to nony.
Get off the high horse and get over whatever it is you're butthurt about, people aren't going to listen to a troll like you. My thoughts exactly No responsible manager publicly attacks the character of his players' opponents. You're way out of line here. QFT +1. Seriously, being a neutral party here (I don't really know anything about any of these players here), I've lost any respect for what Ash has to say in this thread, because he is accusing Nony of bad sportsmanship in an even lower, less classy way. If everything Ash says about Nony is exactly true, I would have agreed with him, but the unnecessary constant attacks just ruin it for me. I sincerely understand what you think about me. To me my original intention wasn't to attack nony constantly. I just wanted to explain to people what really happened. I wouldn't deny that I could've done it at a better way but it just pisses me off when I see such things happen. I knew I had to stand up for F91. I'm willing to apologize if I've said anything more than what really happened.
As much as I think many members of the community are eagerly awaiting more juicy drama I think it's time you guys (TL admins, Nony, Ash, F91) take this behind closed doors and have a civil real time discussion.
It looks like this is degenerating into discrediting the other side and no good can really come of that. Sort it out like mature adults, away from the legions of fans on both sides. Preferably with TL admins present to moderate things.
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Hi. Being a third party here as well, my concern is about the unfairness in which Nony left after game 2 and only after apparently when his psi storms failed. Now, some people might say: you only leave when you loose and only then do you blame it on lag if there was any. But looking it from this direction, what if f91 had left after 2 games - and not just after the first - to state that lag is an issue in which everything must be rescheduled and all previous games must be canceled or annuled?
Now, this is all under the assumption that Nony left after game 2 and only after an exceptionally unfortunate encounter between f91's forces and nony's forces. I think what must be done is a publicly disclosed replay of both game 2 and game 1 to see the true extent of this impossible and unplayable lag.
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On March 23 2009 04:17 archaicon wrote:
Hi. Being a third party here as well, my concern is about the unfairness in which Nony left after game 2 and only after apparently when his psi storms failed. Now, some people might say: you only leave when you loose and only then do you blame it on lag if there was any. But looking it from this direction, what if f91 had left after 2 games - and not just after the first - to state that lag is an issue in which everything must be rescheduled and all previous games must be canceled or annuled?
Now, this is all under the assumption that Nony left after game 2 and only after an exceptionally unfortunate encounter between f91's forces and nony's forces. I think what must be done is a publicly disclosed replay of both game 2 and game 1 to see the true extent of this impossible and unplayable lag.
I don't think you can really get a feel for lag conditions from a replay.
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Baa?21242 Posts
I love how so many people open their posts with something along the lines of "Being a neutral party..." and then proceeds to take a stance =D
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On March 23 2009 04:20 Phyre wrote:
I don't think you can really get a feel for lag conditions from a replay.
Yes, you can. You can partially tell the difference by the fact that whereas a person would have normally done something by then, they didn't.
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On March 23 2009 04:20 Phyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2009 04:17 archaicon wrote:
Hi. Being a third party here as well, my concern is about the unfairness in which Nony left after game 2 and only after apparently when his psi storms failed. Now, some people might say: you only leave when you loose and only then do you blame it on lag if there was any. But looking it from this direction, what if f91 had left after 2 games - and not just after the first - to state that lag is an issue in which everything must be rescheduled and all previous games must be canceled or annuled?
Now, this is all under the assumption that Nony left after game 2 and only after an exceptionally unfortunate encounter between f91's forces and nony's forces. I think what must be done is a publicly disclosed replay of both game 2 and game 1 to see the true extent of this impossible and unplayable lag. I don't think you can really get a feel for lag conditions from a replay.
Normally, players tend to have much higher apm compared to the usual one. A lot of people have seen 1000 apm or something like that in extremely laggy games. Other than that I think there are also some parts where people can look at.
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On March 23 2009 03:20 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Why would you even take that screenshot? You needed to remember that I said I'd reschedule? It seems like you took that screenshot just in case you could find a reason to post it on a forum. Bad intentions from the start?
If you say "fuck", people will take a screenshot for sure cause you are famous.
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On March 23 2009 04:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I love how so many people open their posts with something along the lines of "Being a neutral party..." and then proceeds to take a stance =D
People say that meaning that they had no prior expectations before reading this thread, and thus are trying to judge things from the content of the posts, rather than their opinions of the parties involved. I think its a perfectly reasonable thing to say - its like serving jury duty (I guess I'm not familiar with how many other people on this site will be familiar with that), not that anyone is really asking for my opinion.
On March 23 2009 04:07 Ash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2009 03:59 bludragen88 wrote:On March 23 2009 03:24 Goosey wrote:On March 21 2009 20:57 -orb- wrote:
Ash are you on a crusade against nony?
You seem hell-bent on ruining his reputation and everyone's view of him.
You should have just posted your first message and left it at that. You lost all weight in that message in my eyes because clearly you have some personal problem with him that's illustrated in your repeated posting with every post being an insult to nony.
Get off the high horse and get over whatever it is you're butthurt about, people aren't going to listen to a troll like you. My thoughts exactly No responsible manager publicly attacks the character of his players' opponents. You're way out of line here. QFT +1. Seriously, being a neutral party here (I don't really know anything about any of these players here), I've lost any respect for what Ash has to say in this thread, because he is accusing Nony of bad sportsmanship in an even lower, less classy way. If everything Ash says about Nony is exactly true, I would have agreed with him, but the unnecessary constant attacks just ruin it for me. I sincerely understand what you think about me. To me my original intention wasn't to attack nony constantly. I just wanted to explain to people the whole situation of what really happened. I wouldn't deny the fact that I could've done it at a better way but it just pisses me off when I see such things happen. I knew I had to stand up for F91. I'm willing to apologize if I've said anything more than what really happened. I've said I would have no problems if the lag really happened but
The thing is, I don't think anyone has tried to flame F91 in this thread, and I don't think anyone has really come close to posting that this is in some way his fault. I guess some people have posted that F91 is not a good player or insinuated that he's only winning because of lag, but that is a TL tradition, and its because people have selective memories about who won and lost what (and they also forget that at the top levels, anyone can win any game - see Bisu vs Chrh). The bottom line is, it doesn't really seem like you're jumping up in defense of your own player because everything you have to say is about how Nony did this or that - if you really just wanted to protect F91 you could say "look how reasonable my player has been - he dealt with lag, and he's willing to reschedule and even start over at 0-0 despite staying up really late for the first attempt at liquibition 29", instead of what you have said.
If Nony is at fault it is Nony, and if lag is at fault it is the fact that F91 is playing out of China, which he can't really help. I admire F91 for being willing to start over at 0-0 and trust his own skills, and his patience with the matter (or at least lack of public demonstration of any frustrations). However, your excuse of "I could've done it a better way but...", is exactly what Nony could say, so if it exonerates one of you it exonerates you both (to a certain extent). If you want to do it a better way (or at least as well as you can from this point forwards), I'd take down the conversations between you and Nony (that's private) and the inflammatory parts of some of your posts (like "sportsmanship? think twice!"), and ask Nony to do the same, or if he won't, ask the mods to remove most of this thread, and then take this disagreement to the mods, and away from the public. I'm sure there's a solution possible short of flying F91 to the US (or Nony to China), and it would be more quickly reached behind closed doors. And next time, maybe both players can take FPVODs and then the public will really know which side is which about the lag - no need to argue with that kind of evidence.
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On March 23 2009 04:20 Phyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2009 04:17 archaicon wrote:
Hi. Being a third party here as well, my concern is about the unfairness in which Nony left after game 2 and only after apparently when his psi storms failed. Now, some people might say: you only leave when you loose and only then do you blame it on lag if there was any. But looking it from this direction, what if f91 had left after 2 games - and not just after the first - to state that lag is an issue in which everything must be rescheduled and all previous games must be canceled or annuled?
Now, this is all under the assumption that Nony left after game 2 and only after an exceptionally unfortunate encounter between f91's forces and nony's forces. I think what must be done is a publicly disclosed replay of both game 2 and game 1 to see the true extent of this impossible and unplayable lag. I don't think you can really get a feel for lag conditions from a replay.
Still, can we see a replay of the first two games?
I think that a replay would show whether or not an action trigger would have mattered even if a player had done something (as an response to an opponent).
Can the mods post them?
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I'm just curious. What the HELL happened in there??
Like, this should become part of starcraft history. The secret files between nony and f91.
If we get enough posters, can we see them??
Every1 who wants to see the replays, say Aye!
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Really, there's no need for the mods to post them since they are the ones to make the decisions.
Unless you just want Ash and Nony to continue campaigning for president, and you don't know which one to vote on.
Well, let's just hope this works next week. 
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On March 22 2009 22:57 Liquid`NonY wrote:
After the second game, I didn't say what you said. The way you recount it gives a horrible impression of me. I didn't start anything with 'fuck' and the very last thing I said was that I shouldn't schedule matches with Chinese players at all.
Yes, I was short about it and it was easy to tell I was impatient, but I didn't use bad language or insult anyone.
F*** , you got owned bad!
3:0 to F91
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6728/aaad.jpg)
