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On January 24 2010 04:07 IamAnton wrote:
Zee wtf vod were you watching, how was he not ahead. 1 base terran with minerals vs 4 base Zerg. Flash's large army all gone and JD taking his 5th base. Flash at the end had 2 vessels with no enery, and what... 6 rines/6medics? he was unable to expo, he was unable to take JD's expo, and he was unable to control any portion of the map anymore. I mean really you need to watch the VOD again if you somehow missed the massive advantage for Zerg.
He has bases that werent mining. Advantage? I think not. I was watching Live. I dont need to Re-live such a travesty. ~_~
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It was unfair yes, but I like many others believe it was the fairest decision possible. Everyone mentions how Jaedong had the advantage and yes I believe he did, but even more importantly he prepared a special build just for that map. He was in cross positions and went 3 hatch before pool, I don't think he would get away with this again. It was very risky but it payed off because he made the correct gamble. He went very fast evolution chamber to get 5-2 ultras, which he would undoubtedly have to change for the re-game. Sure he probably has backup builds but I think to take such an advantage away would just be brutal.
I think Flash is amazing though for the way he handled this. He looked heart broken at the very beginning when they mentioned awarding the game to Jaedong. I felt so bad for him, the fact that he prepares for something like this every day, almost every hour and the power cuts off to deny him at least a fighting chance. Jaedong looked unsatisfied as well which, who could blame him? Nobody blames Jaedong for the power outage but his win at game 3 will always be controversial, so the victory, I'm sure is an unsatisfactory one. But the fact that Flash was smiling at the award ceremony after and congratulating Jaedong just shows how not only good of a player he is but how mature and good of a person he is. I give credit to both players, at least we got to see 3 very exciting matches before the power just couldn't handle the intensity of their battle anymore.
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So is jaedong MSL champion?
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Jaedong is the new Bonjwa !
Golden Mouse, WCG and now MSL title against the "unbeatable" TvZ player
He won game 1 on Match Point and made it look easy
Barely barely lost game 2 ... he was so close from repelling the dropship attack but it was very well timed by flash
He played an incredible game 3 ... seriously it could have been one of the best games ever had it not ended up that way, i loved it... incredible play by both players on a terran favored map and still everybody agrees jaedong was way ahead !
I personally think he had game 3 won 100% and i have yet to hear anybody explain how Flash could have won that game.
And game 4 was just a formality (very good scouting though) but he kept his cool and did the job
Well Done Jaedong ... you deserve it !
I am not a Jaedong fan but i have to say... he is the dominent force of this era
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I've said this before but: I hope in the near future we can forget all this drama crap and focus on the great games the series provided us.
We should be talking about Flash's BEAUTIFUL counter in game 2.
He had one chance to win that game, one timing, and he found it. He didn't overreact to the guardians and only makes a few wraiths so he can make the drop ships and vessels he needs. Then he elevators his troops in and gives a marine micro clinic to take the game.
We should also be talking about Jaedong's phenomenal BoX play. Defying the odds he takes a convincing win in Game1 with brute determination and shows incredible resilience to hold out in game3 til his upgrade and tech advantage kick in to take the game. Then in Game4 he reads Flash's playbook perfectly and predicts the 8rax deflecting it with ease.
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I really hope I wasn't the only one that went on a nerd rage after I heard that KeSPA decided on Jaedong to win...
It was, in my opinion, the best game of the series without the computers heating up and disconnecting, but seriously... FlaSh, sure, wasn't in a great position but wasn't completely starved and Jaedong was just then starting to get his expansions up, so he most likely wasn't at 2k minerals and 1k gas or something.
Yeah, it would suck for Jaedong if there were to be a rematch, but he had already taken a game off of FlaSh in the first game and he shouldn't have been nervous about losing or playing an extra game.
All in all, I blame MSL. Might not be the most mature solution but wow... And my hatred for KeSPA just keeps piling up.
And I think it was rather clear that FlaSh was really upset and so were the fans, as FlaSh went for 2rax which is something that can be easily defended and just about half the fans got up and left without waiting for the ceremony. "Thanks MSL, for the failure of a great Finals"
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On January 24 2010 04:20 StarKiller wrote:
Jaedong is the new Bonjwa !
Golden Mouse, WCG and now MSL title against the "unbeatable" TvZ player
He won game 1 on Match Point and made it look easy
Barely barely lost game 2 ... he was so close from repelling the dropship attack but it was very well timed by flash
He played an incredible game 3 ... seriously it could have been one of the best games ever had it not ended up that way, i loved it... incredible play by both players on a terran favored map and still everybody agrees jaedong was way ahead !
I personally think he had game 3 won 100% and i have yet to hear anybody explain how Flash could have won that game.
And game 4 was just a formality (very good scouting though) but he kept his cool and did the job
Well Done Jaedong ... you deserve it !
I am not a Jaedong fan but i have to say... he is the dominent force of this era
You do realize that Jaedong was already considered a 'bonjwa' when he won his third OSL. Winning WCG doesn't affect Jaedong's KeSPA ranking at all, and it sure isn't exactly the hardest league for progamers to win in. Players like White-ra and Kolll are good, sure, but progamers are better. And you basically sided with everything Jaedong did good. Not even mentioned any positive thing FlaSh did, so keep your ignorant and biased self to yourself.
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I'm with Nazgul and Ret. I thought it was gg for a minute when the power went out. It's the most fair way to do it. Jaedong really won that series legitimately.
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Bases that werent mining when the game blacked out? i think not. Yes he lost drones before, but at the end where Flash pushed JD's expo... He lost all his units trying to take that expo and has failed. note that durong that time we all know there were some drones rebuilt at the top. Also note since flash's push failed and he has no units that even if somehow he didn't have drones there, how was flash going todo anything to stop him from getting drones there? Flash had 0 map control at that point, and the only units he did have where being rallied to the bottom expo which couldn't be taken now. So with depleted gases for herrible vessel production and only 1 expo with minerals, which was almost depleted aswell. how was Flash exactly going to get up an expo or somehow stop jaedong from mining? JD had ultras and defilers to easily stomp any expo attempt and Flash didnt have the resources to even start trying to come back.
I mean by all means if you have a responce on how Flash at all could of won that then plz post. Just saying he was in the lead though dosn't prove anything. Frankly i didnt see anything for Flash todo at that point.
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It was clear who was the winner from the first game.
On the hype thread there was some quotes from progamers who said that flash didn't had time to prepare due to team wars and stuff, thus making the final look one sided (bc jaedong had a long time to prepare).
On the other hand at the OSL encounter JD was the one with the disadvantage of time, but still flash went "cheesy bastard" mode and won.
so, in conclusion by the way they play, JD is a baller, better player.
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On January 24 2010 04:27 SynC[gm] wrote:
You do realize that Jaedong was already considered a 'bonjwa' when he won his third OSL. Winning WCG doesn't affect Jaedong's KeSPA ranking at all, and it sure isn't exactly the hardest league for progamers to win in. Players like White-ra and Kolll are good, sure, but progamers are better. And you basically sided with everything Jaedong did good. Not even mentioned any positive thing FlaSh did, so keep your ignorant and biased self to yourself.
Why are you such a hater ?
I did mention that Flash played good in games 2 and 3 ...
And i don't believe Jaedong was ever seriously considered Bonjwa nor that people will consider him that in the future given the number of extremely good players there is in the scene right now.
But after a new season on top i think he should be considered that
I mentionned WCG because he hadn't won it yet and depite what you might think Korean qualifiers for WCG isn't exactly a walk in the park... neither is WCG world finals when there are 3 top koreans and all the best foreigners (but ret) in it.
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Good write-up. I'm glad you provided a detailed explanation as to why Jaedong deserved that win, which he obviously did.
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I guess their decision was okay, better then some past decisions, but I think the MSL people are dumb for having a blackout in the first place. No wonder almost everyone thinks the OSL is more important.
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i think the issue wasn't jaedong getting the win, but rather flash receiving the loss. quite a mental blow imo
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this reminded me of that time Boxer couldn't drop the siege tank on the island cuz Kespa used a wrong version of the map
so unfortunate Flash had to sit through that, you could see his hopes just collapsed after that 3rd set
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Lol, the OP title was funny. XD But totally true. So many things made the "best MSL finals ever" into a really lame series of crap.
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On January 24 2010 04:35 IamAnton wrote:
Bases that werent mining when the game blacked out? i think not. Yes he lost drones before, but at the end where Flash pushed JD's expo... He lost all his units trying to take that expo and has failed. note that durong that time we all know there were some drones rebuilt at the top. Also note since flash's push failed and he has no units that even if somehow he didn't have drones there, how was flash going todo anything to stop him from getting drones there? Flash had 0 map control at that point, and the only units he did have where being rallied to the bottom expo which couldn't be taken now. So with depleted gases for herrible vessel production and only 1 expo with minerals, which was almost depleted aswell. how was Flash exactly going to get up an expo or somehow stop jaedong from mining? JD had ultras and defilers to easily stomp any expo attempt and Flash didnt have the resources to even start trying to come back.
Everyone is speculating what could of been. Regardless there should have been a Re-game. The MSL is ruined for the fans, players, and staff and over all in general. The results of game 3 made everyone look bad. I didn't even have to watch game 4 to know that JD would win. Flashes heart wasn't in the game after that debacle and many peoples felt the same way. It will take time(I don't know how much or if it ever will) to accept Jaedong as the winner, but he will never be the clear winner.
Personally, I think this is a blow to the starcraft community. The desire to watch starcraft for myself has been severely weakened.
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to say Flash was at a disadvantage without the replay is like saying you've boned carmen electra but never had your dick inside her.. Kespa doesn't know how much money flash had in the bank. Jaedong was playing incredibly defensively... allocating a large chunk of his gas to scourge.. when you have few defilers on the field you're not going to be able to pressure an expansion. Kespa is communist.
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On January 24 2010 04:21 Klive5ive wrote:
I've said this before but: I hope in the near future we can forget all this drama crap and focus on the great games the series provided us.
We should be talking about Flash's BEAUTIFUL counter in game 2.
He had one chance to win that game, one timing, and he found it. He didn't overreact to the guardians and only makes a few wraiths so he can make the drop ships and vessels he needs. Then he elevators his troops in and gives a marine micro clinic to take the game.
We should also be talking about Jaedong's phenomenal BoX play. Defying the odds he takes a convincing win in Game1 with brute determination and shows incredible resilience to hold out in game3 til his upgrade and tech advantage kick in to take the game. Then in Game4 he reads Flash's playbook perfectly and predicts the 8rax deflecting it with ease.
I don't think either of them played a top performance.
Game 1: JD had an easy first game. Flash seemed really sloppy with his m&m and perhaps could've made more turrets. Not something you want to do vs JD's muta's.
Game 2: Flash basically lost the game with a his ineffective counter strategy. I'm sure everyone thought JD was taking this game, he could've done a lot damage in Flash's main with his muta's.. Flash's main was really vulnerable at that point though, JD knew it as he had scouted flash's full base. He then decides to pull out his mutas to morph some guardians at one of the worst places he could've morphed them. Seemed really dumb and by doing that he totally threw the game. Even though it's always easy to comment the ones that are playing, these two players are two motherfucking titans right?!
Game 3: A close and exciting game. JD went for a risky strategy and was able to hold his grounds which paid off in the end. I found JD's defense earlier in the game really sloppy, and later in the game he had all these ultra's that were outside of his swarm getting owned etc. Nevertheless he held it down yada yada. Not going to waste more typing on this since there are too many posts on this game already for obvious reasons 
Game 4: Flash went for an early barracks far out of his main. I'm not sure what he was thinking here but it seemed sort of a big gamble, going for a bunker rush on a 4 player map. JD figured to play a safe game, opening with an overpool so there wasn't anything Flash could do. I think Flash then wanted to fake an exp and go for some sort of timing m&m push, but JD ran a zergling around and scouted Flash's full base. At that moment I knew JD would win that game. Mutas arrived leading to another easy victory for JD.
After all the bullcrap from Game 3 I don't think there is any way that either of them would play a great game anymore though, so I don't really care too much about the fourth one. However judging from all games together, I'd have to say that to me JD seemed superior to Flash and I don't think Flash had too much chance to take the series regardless of the Game 3 fiasco, on that particular day anyway.
edit:
Are there any interviews available?
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I don't know how Jaedong "deserved" that win. He deserves a win if he bested Flash in a best of 5 under fair conditions. That never happened. This isn't Jaedong's fault and I feel for him, but you can't say Flash would have lost a best of 5 anyways just because Jaedong was looking stronger in the fair games that were played (1 - part of 3).
We simply don't know what would have happened in a fair test of each player's skills. Based on what I saw tonight I believe Jaedong probably would have won in a fair fight, but that is my opinion and speculation and not what occurred. It's unfair to simply write Flash off and say, "well Jaedong was looking stronger anyways he would have won no matter what." That's just fanboyism.
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EPT
