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On May 26 2024 21:15 CopCake wrote:
Rsoultin playing D:
But is CopCake playing?
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On May 27 2024 07:19 Vivax wrote:
/obs You fill me with sadness 
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On May 28 2024 03:03 Vivax wrote:
I can’t rn life is a shitshow.
And me and dmb live next to each other like zerg worker drones and it’s annoying Hm, sorries You'll be missed. Hope things improve soon.
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On June 04 2024 07:53 Mocsta wrote:
/in Oh hey, long time no see!
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Oh, I always get confused about this week vs next week. That's fine too haha.
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Oh right, I forgot that because I moved, the deadline is at a different time 
Anyway, we seem to have some issues in our good town. Specifically, people decided to confirm in the thread, despite a lack of direction to do so by the host. This indicates that these people are easily swayed by the actions of others, even without any factual basis. It is very important for us to eliminate these people immediately, because even if they are not mafia, they are clearly susceptible to being influenced and controlled by others.
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On June 07 2024 11:25 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 11:23 Trfel wrote:Oh right, I forgot that because I moved, the deadline is at a different time Anyway, we seem to have some issues in our good town. Specifically, people decided to confirm in the thread, despite a lack of direction to do so by the host. This indicates that these people are easily swayed by the actions of others, even without any factual basis. It is very important for us to eliminate these people immediately, because even if they are not mafia, they are clearly susceptible to being influenced and controlled by others. This is terrible reasoning. Plus I was the first to post a /confirm on my own. So am I swayed easily as well?  Or did everyone follow me? Your case is a little different. I can't necessarily say that you are easily swayed, but you definitely take the gold medal for stupidity
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On June 07 2024 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 11:20 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:16 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 07 2024 11:14 scott31337 wrote:
Four for four for you Oats? Why do you say so? Why wouldn't you want to read the OP? Someone will tell me when I’m wrong This is somewhat valid, however, I insist that you tell me what you are doing with your time that is more beneficial than reading the rules. Otherwise you'd better read them
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On June 07 2024 11:34 rsoultin wrote:
Eh, rules, shmules we've all played this game. How different could it be? xP His argument only has validity if his time is being used more effectively doing something else, though.
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On June 07 2024 11:34 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 11:22 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:20 Vivax wrote:On June 07 2024 11:03 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Ha! Still not mafia.
Mason me pls! I've never been in a Mason game before. I understand what it is, but what are the advantages for town on its usage? Seemingly harmless question with emphasis on trying to look useful. Scum-meter vibrates slightly. Oats with acceptable vibe so far. It was an honest question and Rayn answered what I was looking for. Maybe it was an honest question but it still made you sound like it‘s your first day at school. Scott31337 always does this. And I never like it
That's two strikes, scott31337, one more and you get a vote
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On June 07 2024 12:15 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 11:34 rsoultin wrote:
Eh, rules, shmules we've all played this game. How different could it be? xP His argument only has validity if his time is being used more effectively doing something else, though. You haven't excited me yet. It's early days, but still...I am the sad. You must have high standards (!)
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I think scott31337 is probably the most suspicious person to ever play this game. He's just always mafia somehow, even when his role PM says he is town
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Vivax gets points for commenting on scott31337 but loses points for his comment on Oatsmaster, unless he can back it up.
AlphaZero gets points for commenting on scott31337 but loses points for saying Vivax looks good, because Vivax lost points for saying Oatsmaster had a good vibe when that isn't really substantiated.
End result is no points for anyone!
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On June 07 2024 12:29 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:I think scott31337 is probably the most suspicious person to ever play this game. He's just always mafia somehow, even when his role PM says he is town Dude, when did you get so smiley happy? Nice way to call a person scum but not scum btw. I'm just gonna keep watching you for something shiny. No pressure. xDDDDDDDDD I've always been smiley, no? You influenced me
If you're really looking for mafia using symbols, just remember that the question mark is by far the most scummy character. At least I think so????
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On June 07 2024 12:32 rsoultin wrote:
-_- The baby is up so so early today geez. Tsk tsk, prioritizing your child over a high-stakes mafia game..
Losing points already!
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The real question here is if we are lynching scott31337 today or waiting until tomorrow?
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On June 07 2024 12:44 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:
The real question here is if we are lynching scott31337 today or waiting until tomorrow? Go find the real mafia. Unless you already know who they are It would be easier if you would stop pretending to be mafia
Why tell me to go find mafia when you can (presumably) do it yourself?
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On June 07 2024 12:50 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 12:45 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 12:44 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:
The real question here is if we are lynching scott31337 today or waiting until tomorrow? Go find the real mafia. Unless you already know who they are It would be easier if you would stop pretending to be mafia Why tell me to go find mafia when you can (presumably) do it yourself? Scumslip See you already know I'm "pretending" to be mafia. I already know I'm town. Do you see me driving discussion? I've been looking since 10pm. Tbh no one's really been driving discussion at all? Not much has happened yet?
If anyone's been driving discussion it's been AlphaZero. But even that's a bit of a stretch imo. Quite a mischaracterization.
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On June 07 2024 12:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:I think scott31337 is probably the most suspicious person to ever play this game. He's just always mafia somehow, even when his role PM says he is town Thats entitely untrue based on last game. On the contrary, I found him quite suspicious last game.
That may just be my fault for being bad, though
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On June 07 2024 11:20 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 11:03 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Ha! Still not mafia.
Mason me pls! I've never been in a Mason game before. I understand what it is, but what are the advantages for town on its usage? Seemingly harmless question with emphasis on trying to look useful. Scum-meter vibrates slightly. Oats with acceptable vibe so far. Honestly this still seems off. It's not much, but I strongly disagree that Oatsmaster's "vibe" is anything close to meaningful at this point. Oatsmaster's made two posts containing a whopping 11 words, honestly it's hard to discern much of a "vibe," much less an alignment indicative "vibe." I guess it's the 11th post of the game, there's not really anything wrong (per se) with making something out of nothing, heck I do it all the time, but I still don't like it? I guess that makes me a hypocrite.
I can see where AlphaZero is coming from, despite the minus points. Kinda like rsoultin as well, actually, surprisingly.
Idk, I mean there's no way Oatsmaster rolled mafia four times in a row, right? Gambler's fallacy though... I just don't understand the mindset Oatsmaster is coming from. Like, why on earth would he post this:On June 07 2024 11:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
I’m just not reading the op tbh It doesn't accomplish anything or progress anything or communicate anything and it's not even fun? But even as mafia he has no problem finding actual things to mention. So maybe it simply makes no sense regardless of alignment? Having a hard time figuring out what to make of this.
Also, scott31337, good luck
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On June 07 2024 13:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Sn now Trfel is not that weird anymore Why was I weird?
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On June 07 2024 13:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 13:24 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 13:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Sn now Trfel is not that weird anymore Why was I weird? You were "happier" than usual, and started by joking for pages instead of going super serious (in contrary to even games where you said beforw game youre not gonna be auper serious..) Also somehow i have considered you and rsoultin kinda like "best buddies" from my memory like 8 years ago and it was bugging me you didnt have any conversation with her, until she made imo a good conclusion of you needing to do more to gain trust or smth (points to her for that). I was about to make a post about it already but i wanted to have this scott rhing unfolded first and then that other thing unfolded itself kind of Hm, interesting.
Side note, how was rsoultin's argument good though? That was on page 5 when the game really started on page 4 (not counting the day post), I mean isn't this simply true for everyone?
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On June 07 2024 13:48 rsoultin wrote:
Truffle thinking this is about arguments. Well I was kinda hoping for a rayn follow-up but tbf you were concentrating on more important things so I'll just pout a little in the corner instead.
Rayn, I am very, very happy that your 'Truffle is having fun' wasn't a townread. That's how I initially read it and I was like...hmm. The calling people stupid thing was also not greeeat but idk as part of a joke it's not as weird for a truffle.
Regarding the oats thing, I kinda get what Viva's putting down as an early read. It's very derpy derpy fuck you which feels nice and relaxed to me. I'm not quite sure why it's significant to you, though? The jump on the not reading the OP comment felt...ick. Very low-hanging fruit. What's the mafia motivation for just declaring you're not reading it? I mean it's not just that comment, it's that I'm used to Oatsmaster's posts having purpose or direction. So far that's been incredibly lacking. I brought that post up as an example. I don't know what it means, or even if it means anything, which is why I brought it up, because it is confusing me and bothering me.
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Oh I see. I guess I never really understood dynamics like that tbh. Some next level analysis going on in Finland
Don't think I am lynching rsoultin, AlphaZero, or raynpelikoneet today. Probably not Vivax either. Don't really want to lynch anyone, scott31337 and Oatsmaster are the most interesting to me but I don't have any real reasons either way?
Idk scott31337 feels like maybe the toughest person for me to read. I just struggle to figure him out. Heck, I think I'd have a better chance at reading Chezinu. It's my fault, I just don't know how to fix it...
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I think the whisperer mechanic favors skill most of all. It can be powerful or negligible for either alignment, honestly it just depends on how effectively it is used. It's possibly a little easier for town to get value from it, though.
Has it been confirmed that AlphaZero is indeed a smurf? Or is our community so dead that we can't possibly have just gotten a new player?
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On June 07 2024 14:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 14:09 Trfel wrote:
I think the whisperer mechanic favors skill most of all. It can be powerful or negligible for either alignment, honestly it just depends on how effectively it is used. It's possibly a little easier for town to get value from it, though.
Has it been confirmed that AlphaZero is indeed a smurf? Or is our community so dead that we can't possibly have just gotten a new player? He's definitely skilled in mafia. Oh sure but aren't there plenty of mafia forums?
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I guess I'm not used to raynpelikoneet being this insightful? Insightful probably isn't the right word, but idk what is, just that his line of thinking was reasonable but also never would have crossed my mind. It makes it feel much more genuine than something with more "normal" reasoning.
Could raynpelikoneet pull it off as mafia, I guess probably, he can pretty much do anything as mafia, but I think it's a decent reason to not suspect him for now. Still worth mentioning at this time.
I don't think I would have any chance at figuring out a smurf's identity anyway. Good thing meta is overrated
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I mean if you reeeeeally want to figure out who AlphaZero could be, the biggest clue imo is the time. Reasonable Europeans are asleep right now (you two are clearly not reasonable), I think AlphaZero not being European is a reasonable assumption. Also, if you assume that AlphaZero is a decent player, I think most of the decent players are European. So that would be where I would start.
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Honestly it could just be DarthPunk but I probably have negative odds of figuring it out, if you two weren't so focused on it I wouldn't even bother
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On June 07 2024 14:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 14:13 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 14:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 07 2024 14:09 Trfel wrote:
I think the whisperer mechanic favors skill most of all. It can be powerful or negligible for either alignment, honestly it just depends on how effectively it is used. It's possibly a little easier for town to get value from it, though.
Has it been confirmed that AlphaZero is indeed a smurf? Or is our community so dead that we can't possibly have just gotten a new player? He's definitely skilled in mafia. Oh sure but aren't there plenty of mafia forums? That's true. Most of them (all of them) don't share our playing culture though (going RVS and shit instead). Talk to me (and rsoultin) more about Vivax and Oats. I think Vivax' opener on scott was pretty basic vivax. Oats i have given my impression so far. I have somewhat hard time understanding where you actually stand on them because you disliked Vivax based on what was basically a case on Oats. :D Hm, I thought there were a few that were a little more similar? I could absolutely be wrong, I know next to nothing about them though.
I don't know what to think about Oatsmaster, Oatsmaster is a little tough for me because historically, he tends to be the opposite alignment of whatever I think he is. His playstyle, at least to me, is like he tends to throw criticism/shade at people in passing instead of getting super involved himself. Strangely, the games where he has more direction are the ones where he has been mafia, and the ones where he's been less involved he's been town. I would have expected the opposite for this playstyle. So I don't really know about Oatsmaster, especially not yet.
My point though is that I have a very hard time understanding how Vivax gets anything resembling towny vibes from Oatsmaster's first two posts. I could see not caring and aloof-ness being towny, but I honestly don't even get those from the posts. I get a bit of petulance (assuming I actually know what that word means, my vocabulary is pretty abysmal) but I don't really think that is alignment indicative tbh.
I don't think it makes Vivax mafia, especially since rsoultin had the same takeway as Vivax, maybe my view on it is just off. It feels a bit weird, maybe it's nothing, and like I said even if it is a stretch of a read it's okay to do that so early in the game, I just don't really know much else that sticks out to me.
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On June 07 2024 14:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 14:22 Trfel wrote:
I guess I'm not used to raynpelikoneet being this insightful what exactly do you mean? If you could be a bit better with your quotes I'd appreciate it, it's hard for me to fix it on my phone, my stupid thumb is too big and I can't get the cursor to go to the right spot ><
I tried to explain it in the post you quoted? Basically raynpelikoneet wasn't just taking your words at their surface value/meaning but was drawing conclusions about how previous history affects those subtle things about early posts/reads in a way I thought was surprising and insightful. Very original line of thought.
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Also sorry for some reason I thought I was talking to rsoultin but that was actually raynpelikoneet. Sorry for the weird third person, not trying to ignore you ><
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On June 07 2024 14:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:I personally think Oats is even more nitpicky than i am as town, i know two games ago, when he was mafia caught by Slam's check, he was imitating that game very well. However last game was a very pretty town sweep on mafia, and Oats even himself said he didn't have any chance to even do anything because everyone just looked so town. So like, in that game he ended up getiing into the argument about drawings, that was not in itself mafia!Oats, but when it went on and on and on, it became more and more mafia!Oats. Oats is generally really easy read for me even at the start of the game and rn all i can say is "meh", even as he hasn't really been around. I agree with your non-conclusion of Vivax (lol). Okay, show off Maybe it's easy for you but some of us (or maybe just be) are struggling back here, haha. I'll work on it.
Idk, at first I thought maybe it meant something about Vivax, as time has passed I've become less and less confident in that. So now idk. When in doubt, lynch scott31337?
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Wasn't there a thing with Oatsmaster and game rules like 2-3 games ago? Like either Oatsmaster blatantly didn't know the game rules twice in a row or someone else did that and Oatsmaster called them out on it?
If it was the former then I don't think it means anything, but if it was the latter... I think it was the former but maybe worth checking?
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Okay so it was the former. Still though I have a hard time understanding Oatsmaster's posts..... Idk maybe he's just town because his posting looks really awful but I don't think he would do that as mafia because he knows better and can do better? Which is a pretty darn stupid argument but it's the best I have?
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On June 07 2024 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Pretty sure his post of not reading the rules was a joke regardless of his alignment. You think so? I actually think he meant it.
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Like the part I don't get most is that he really really really didn't interact with anyone or get involved. Even when I tried to draw him out a bit. Why come and post in a way that's not productive or interactive? It just looks bad. Which is actually why I think he may be town because of it, it's kinda wifom, but mafia generally isn't going to make themselves look bad for no reason. I think he might be town and just not care that much.
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I guess it's a pretty darn stupid line of reasoning and it's incredibly wifom but unfortunately I don't have anything better :/
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On June 07 2024 15:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 15:01 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 14:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Pretty sure his post of not reading the rules was a joke regardless of his alignment. You think so? I actually think he meant it. Why? It's in character for Oatsmaster to not read the rules, see two games ago (the 500+ page game).
Also, I don't think it serves any purpose as a joke, it's pretty much out of the blue and tbh it isn't really funny or interesting. Like, why would he read the rules and then say he didn't? I just don't see any incentive or motivation for it.
It really makes me think he's posting to draw attention and for the sake of posting. Idk, I feel like I am going in circles. Tired Trfel is tired
Someone come in with super insight and save me? Please?
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On June 07 2024 15:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 15:03 Trfel wrote:
Like the part I don't get most is that he really really really didn't interact with anyone or get involved. Even when I tried to draw him out a bit. Why come and post in a way that's not productive or interactive? It just looks bad. Which is actually why I think he may be town because of it, it's kinda wifom, but mafia generally isn't going to make themselves look bad for no reason. I think he might be town and just not care that much. I think you're trying to justify why Oats is town based on why he would be mafia. But okay, how do you think this is different from the last game? Yes, this exactly what I am doing. Glad you understand
Last game, Oatsmaster at least had a direction. Like at the start, before he got too focused on the MS Paint timestamps, he at least had an argument and was trying to get it across. Here, he's literally just being present (but uninvolved) and suspicious. It's completely different imo?
To think that I have generally thought that "too scummy to be scum" is a stupid argument
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On June 07 2024 15:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats has played a couple of these games, they are the same.
Semi-open setup + whisperer.
What is there to read in the OP / rules? If it is not a joke, why does he post that in the first place because he already knows the rules.... Idk, why would he post that as a joke either? And I don't think it makes him town necessarily, just seems to indicate that way?On June 07 2024 15:32 AlphaZero wrote:
Trfel what happened to your pressure on Vivax?
From what I can see, you thought his oats read was off and then the next thing you said was you didn't want to lynch him today? I thought I discussed this a page or two ago. I had a hard time understanding Vivax's stance on Oatsmaster, but when I brought it up, rsoultin strongly agreed with Vivax's perspective. So either they are mafia together and rsoultin is defending Vivax (very tinfoily), or Vivax's view is more reasonable than I thought. So I backed off. Maybe I am misunderstanding or misinterpreting Oatsmaster's vibe but I don't think it is anywhere near as simple or cursory as Vivax seems to think?
@Kelsi3r, meta is very overrated. And don't worry, raynpelikoneet and I didn't get a ton done, it's largely missable imo. However, I'm confused because you said you like AlphaZero and rsoultin for their comments on scott31337, but you don't like Vivax. Didn't Vivax comment on that same general idea (even if not as clearly laid out)?
Safe travels, Mocsta! I expect this thread to be your airllane reading, and await large quantities of analysis when you land
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On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious.
If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place.
And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however?
New top suspect, I think.
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On June 07 2024 19:20 Mocsta wrote:
Trfel prepare to be disappointed
Although I did read as you predicted. Yet not much to analyze
You improved. Not sure why the tone changed but it did. And I like that rain observed at same time.i did
Rsoultin I'm back to neutral
Buzziest read to me is kelsier and alphazero
I don't find alphazero insight that great. I.e. Scott defense was adequate to me
And. Alpha is reading to immediately nitpick which I can't relate to
I'm looking for scum.and town. Just weird so far
His tactic of flag was a nice touch though. I will steal that for future
Dang, short flight. Go fly around again until you have better thoughts
Can I clarify what a "buzzy" read means?
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On June 07 2024 19:37 Mocsta wrote:Flight for work. Glad it's over. Turbulence was terrible. Buzzy would be like scummiest. Pinging me / buzzing me I want to read your post on Kelser but really struggling to concentrate into paragraphs lol.. what a convenient excuse In all seriousness will examine after dinner. Oof, turbulence is no fun, sorry Also glad you made it.
Gotcha, makes sense. I don't think I want to lynch Mocsta either. Feel free to let me know what you think about Kelsi3r, I'm quite interested in this approach.
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On June 07 2024 11:20 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 11:03 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Ha! Still not mafia.
Mason me pls! I've never been in a Mason game before. I understand what it is, but what are the advantages for town on its usage? Seemingly harmless question with emphasis on trying to look useful. Scum-meter vibrates slightly. Oats with acceptable vibe so far. He mentioned Oatsmaster's vibe, not scott31337's vibe though? Unless you are interpreting this very differently from me. That's what I acknowledged though, while the points raised by AlphaZero and Vivax aren't exactly the same, they are still somewhat similar.
That said, you didn't address the main point, which is: why would you townread AlphaZero for saying something you don't necessarily agree with, and especially, why would you townread rsoultin for agreeing with this when you don't agree yourself?
Also I'm going to post whenever I feel like, I see no need to wait around.
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Hiya Oatsmaster. Curious if you see what I'm saying about Kelsi3r? Like am I making any sense?
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Kelsi3r, different points. I'm mostly interested in you townreading AlphaZero and rsoultin for something you don't agree with. Unless you have a legit reason for doing this, it doesn't seem like a sensible take to me. I asked about why you didn't acknowledge Vivax's post, which still interests me, but is a bit of a different topic. That said, what's wrong with sharing thoughts on something but also asking if there is an alternative explanation I am missing? Isn't this a common approach?
Honestly it feels like you are deflecting by attacking my questioning method instead of actually discussing the main point? You said you answered this but I looked at your filter and I don't see this explained at all?
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On June 07 2024 20:27 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 20:16 Trfel wrote:
Hiya Oatsmaster. Curious if you see what I'm saying about Kelsi3r? Like am I making any sense? Not really I don’t think it’s absurd to townread someone off a point they made on someone else even if that point isn’t good I guess I should clarify that I don't think this itself is too unreasonable, as long as they have a sensible explanation. The part about rsoultin sticks out the most to me. But we can wait and see what happens.
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So I was trying to respond but I fell asleep before managing to do so. Whoops.On June 07 2024 20:45 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 20:33 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 20:27 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 07 2024 20:16 Trfel wrote:
Hiya Oatsmaster. Curious if you see what I'm saying about Kelsi3r? Like am I making any sense? Not really I don’t think it’s absurd to townread someone off a point they made on someone else even if that point isn’t good I guess I should clarify that I don't think this itself is too unreasonable, as long as they have a sensible explanation. The part about rsoultin sticks out the most to me. But we can wait and see what happens. I don’t get what you hope to achieve tbh, what about rsoul is like even worth a question I mean you can think whatever you want to think, I just think it shows some inconsistencies in Kelsi3r's thought process.
@Kelsi3r, thanks for the explanation. I'll have to think about this.On June 07 2024 21:36 AlphaZero wrote:
I find it funny that mocsta called me out for needlessly nitpicking before nitpicking everything about kelsier's entry post that wasn't bad at all.
I find his entrance to be forced, like he is trying too hard to find something scummy.
I am interested in why truffles thinks he doesn't want to lynch mocsta today?
Is it because Mocsta sheeped your push? I admit I also have had a hard time finding what exactly you are interpreting as nitpicky, I tried to find it and failed. Guess I'm mafia. Ah well.
And no, for not wanting to lynch Mocsta, it's because he was suspecting you when pretty much everyone else was saying you looked towny. It's far from 100% or anything but going against the grain like that can be a good indicator.
Happy Friday, marvellosity!On June 07 2024 22:47 Alakaslam wrote:
Hijole how did I forget this
My work, my work! Don't post too much!
I shall return
When I come back, I expect to see much vote alakaslam based on this... but I can do no different! Uh, maybe I'm falling into the Chezinu trap with Alakaslam, but I actually think this is suspicious?
Like, forgetting about the game or going to work or not posting isn't suspicious at all. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also, Alakaslam is one of those people who likes to post as mafia, so him not posting isn't a mafia indicator IMO regardless.
What is suspicious is the self awareness. Specifically I am looking at a few games ago, it was a Grackaroni game where he invited everyone to the Discord server and Alakaslam was one of the first three people to join. So when three people joined, he thought that was the mafia Discord server and that he was mafia with them, and he said something like "I can't play for a few hours so go ahead and bus me for a while" which IMO doesn't make much sense, who pushes someone for being away for a few hours? But it shows that Alakaslam is exceptionally self-aware/self-conscious as mafia, particularly about activity levels.
Unfortunately I can't say that Alakaslam isn't like this as town. I haven't seen anything to indicate that he has this mindset as town, but it's still possible. Regardless though I think it's worth keeping in mind.On June 07 2024 22:49 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 13:18 Trfel wrote:
Post 125...
I can see where AlphaZero is coming from, despite the minus points. Kinda like rsoultin as well, actually, surprisingly.
hey trfel.. what's the minus point referring toand is this fundamentally different to what kelsiEr said on entry? See here. I'm not sure what you are talking about with Kelsi3r's opening post, if you're asking if my reason for not wanting to lynch rsoultin is similar to Kelsi3r's, it's not at all.On June 07 2024 22:55 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 11:22 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:20 Vivax wrote:On June 07 2024 11:03 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Ha! Still not mafia.
Mason me pls! I've never been in a Mason game before. I understand what it is, but what are the advantages for town on its usage? Seemingly harmless question with emphasis on trying to look useful. Scum-meter vibrates slightly. Oats with acceptable vibe so far. It was an honest question and Rayn answered what I was looking for. This seems fake from scott - does not look reasonable that rayn's non answer could ever be what he was looking for. The issue here is that the post in question comes from scott31337 who (at least in my opinion) always manages to contradict himself and look really suspicious. I have no idea how someone can be so talented at this, but he manages quite well.On June 07 2024 23:03 sandroba wrote:
Trfel so far seems overly friendly and lighthearted in his tone, and employing an overuse of smiley faces which should definitely be criminalized in this town. It's different from the past 2 games we played where he was town. I'm happy to start a war if you would like, I bet us smiley face users can take you boring unemotional people down
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On June 08 2024 02:32 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 02:27 Trfel wrote:So I was trying to respond but I fell asleep before managing to do so. Whoops. On June 07 2024 20:45 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 07 2024 20:33 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 20:27 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 07 2024 20:16 Trfel wrote:
Hiya Oatsmaster. Curious if you see what I'm saying about Kelsi3r? Like am I making any sense? Not really I don’t think it’s absurd to townread someone off a point they made on someone else even if that point isn’t good I guess I should clarify that I don't think this itself is too unreasonable, as long as they have a sensible explanation. The part about rsoultin sticks out the most to me. But we can wait and see what happens. I don’t get what you hope to achieve tbh, what about rsoul is like even worth a question I mean you can think whatever you want to think, I just think it shows some inconsistencies in Kelsi3r's thought process. @Kelsi3r, thanks for the explanation. I'll have to think about this. On June 07 2024 21:36 AlphaZero wrote:
I find it funny that mocsta called me out for needlessly nitpicking before nitpicking everything about kelsier's entry post that wasn't bad at all.
I find his entrance to be forced, like he is trying too hard to find something scummy.
I am interested in why truffles thinks he doesn't want to lynch mocsta today?
Is it because Mocsta sheeped your push? I admit I also have had a hard time finding what exactly you are interpreting as nitpicky, I tried to find it and failed. Guess I'm mafia. Ah well. And no, for not wanting to lynch Mocsta, it's because he was suspecting you when pretty much everyone else was saying you looked towny. It's far from 100% or anything but going against the grain like that can be a good indicator. Happy Friday, marvellosity! On June 07 2024 22:47 Alakaslam wrote:
Hijole how did I forget this
My work, my work! Don't post too much!
I shall return
When I come back, I expect to see much vote alakaslam based on this... but I can do no different! Uh, maybe I'm falling into the Chezinu trap with Alakaslam, but I actually think this is suspicious? Like, forgetting about the game or going to work or not posting isn't suspicious at all. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also, Alakaslam is one of those people who likes to post as mafia, so him not posting isn't a mafia indicator IMO regardless. What is suspicious is the self awareness. Specifically I am looking at a few games ago, it was a Grackaroni game where he invited everyone to the Discord server and Alakaslam was one of the first three people to join. So when three people joined, he thought that was the mafia Discord server and that he was mafia with them, and he said something like "I can't play for a few hours so go ahead and bus me for a while" which IMO doesn't make much sense, who pushes someone for being away for a few hours? But it shows that Alakaslam is exceptionally self-aware/self-conscious as mafia, particularly about activity levels. Unfortunately I can't say that Alakaslam isn't like this as town. I haven't seen anything to indicate that he has this mindset as town, but it's still possible. Regardless though I think it's worth keeping in mind. On June 07 2024 22:49 Mocsta wrote:On June 07 2024 13:18 Trfel wrote:
Post 125...
I can see where AlphaZero is coming from, despite the minus points. Kinda like rsoultin as well, actually, surprisingly.
hey trfel.. what's the minus point referring toand is this fundamentally different to what kelsiEr said on entry? See here. I'm not sure what you are talking about with Kelsi3r's opening post, if you're asking if my reason for not wanting to lynch rsoultin is similar to Kelsi3r's, it's not at all. On June 07 2024 22:55 sandroba wrote:On June 07 2024 11:22 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:20 Vivax wrote:On June 07 2024 11:03 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Ha! Still not mafia.
Mason me pls! I've never been in a Mason game before. I understand what it is, but what are the advantages for town on its usage? Seemingly harmless question with emphasis on trying to look useful. Scum-meter vibrates slightly. Oats with acceptable vibe so far. It was an honest question and Rayn answered what I was looking for. This seems fake from scott - does not look reasonable that rayn's non answer could ever be what he was looking for. The issue here is that the post in question comes from scott31337 who (at least in my opinion) always manages to contradict himself and look really suspicious. I have no idea how someone can be so talented at this, but he manages quite well. On June 07 2024 23:03 sandroba wrote:
Trfel so far seems overly friendly and lighthearted in his tone, and employing an overuse of smiley faces which should definitely be criminalized in this town. It's different from the past 2 games we played where he was town. I'm happy to start a war if you would like, I bet us smiley face users can take you boring unemotional people down take this with a grain of salt cause d1 slam read but he's making more sense than usual which i normally associate more with his scum game What? How is Alakaslam making sense, he hasn't really said anything?!
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On June 08 2024 02:36 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 02:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 02:32 rsoultin wrote:On June 08 2024 02:27 Trfel wrote:So I was trying to respond but I fell asleep before managing to do so. Whoops. On June 07 2024 20:45 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 07 2024 20:33 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 20:27 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 07 2024 20:16 Trfel wrote:
Hiya Oatsmaster. Curious if you see what I'm saying about Kelsi3r? Like am I making any sense? Not really I don’t think it’s absurd to townread someone off a point they made on someone else even if that point isn’t good I guess I should clarify that I don't think this itself is too unreasonable, as long as they have a sensible explanation. The part about rsoultin sticks out the most to me. But we can wait and see what happens. I don’t get what you hope to achieve tbh, what about rsoul is like even worth a question I mean you can think whatever you want to think, I just think it shows some inconsistencies in Kelsi3r's thought process. @Kelsi3r, thanks for the explanation. I'll have to think about this. On June 07 2024 21:36 AlphaZero wrote:
I find it funny that mocsta called me out for needlessly nitpicking before nitpicking everything about kelsier's entry post that wasn't bad at all.
I find his entrance to be forced, like he is trying too hard to find something scummy.
I am interested in why truffles thinks he doesn't want to lynch mocsta today?
Is it because Mocsta sheeped your push? I admit I also have had a hard time finding what exactly you are interpreting as nitpicky, I tried to find it and failed. Guess I'm mafia. Ah well. And no, for not wanting to lynch Mocsta, it's because he was suspecting you when pretty much everyone else was saying you looked towny. It's far from 100% or anything but going against the grain like that can be a good indicator. Happy Friday, marvellosity! On June 07 2024 22:47 Alakaslam wrote:
Hijole how did I forget this
My work, my work! Don't post too much!
I shall return
When I come back, I expect to see much vote alakaslam based on this... but I can do no different! Uh, maybe I'm falling into the Chezinu trap with Alakaslam, but I actually think this is suspicious? Like, forgetting about the game or going to work or not posting isn't suspicious at all. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also, Alakaslam is one of those people who likes to post as mafia, so him not posting isn't a mafia indicator IMO regardless. What is suspicious is the self awareness. Specifically I am looking at a few games ago, it was a Grackaroni game where he invited everyone to the Discord server and Alakaslam was one of the first three people to join. So when three people joined, he thought that was the mafia Discord server and that he was mafia with them, and he said something like "I can't play for a few hours so go ahead and bus me for a while" which IMO doesn't make much sense, who pushes someone for being away for a few hours? But it shows that Alakaslam is exceptionally self-aware/self-conscious as mafia, particularly about activity levels. Unfortunately I can't say that Alakaslam isn't like this as town. I haven't seen anything to indicate that he has this mindset as town, but it's still possible. Regardless though I think it's worth keeping in mind. On June 07 2024 22:49 Mocsta wrote:On June 07 2024 13:18 Trfel wrote:
Post 125...
I can see where AlphaZero is coming from, despite the minus points. Kinda like rsoultin as well, actually, surprisingly.
hey trfel.. what's the minus point referring toand is this fundamentally different to what kelsiEr said on entry? See here. I'm not sure what you are talking about with Kelsi3r's opening post, if you're asking if my reason for not wanting to lynch rsoultin is similar to Kelsi3r's, it's not at all. On June 07 2024 22:55 sandroba wrote:On June 07 2024 11:22 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:20 Vivax wrote:On June 07 2024 11:03 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Ha! Still not mafia.
Mason me pls! I've never been in a Mason game before. I understand what it is, but what are the advantages for town on its usage? Seemingly harmless question with emphasis on trying to look useful. Scum-meter vibrates slightly. Oats with acceptable vibe so far. It was an honest question and Rayn answered what I was looking for. This seems fake from scott - does not look reasonable that rayn's non answer could ever be what he was looking for. The issue here is that the post in question comes from scott31337 who (at least in my opinion) always manages to contradict himself and look really suspicious. I have no idea how someone can be so talented at this, but he manages quite well. On June 07 2024 23:03 sandroba wrote:
Trfel so far seems overly friendly and lighthearted in his tone, and employing an overuse of smiley faces which should definitely be criminalized in this town. It's different from the past 2 games we played where he was town. I'm happy to start a war if you would like, I bet us smiley face users can take you boring unemotional people down take this with a grain of salt cause d1 slam read but he's making more sense than usual which i normally associate more with his scum game What? How is Alakaslam making sense, he hasn't really said anything?! yes but my brain didn't explode trying to interpret what he did say lolol this sounds so mean but it's truuuuee Um, would it be possible that you didn't struggle to understand what he said because...... he didn't say anything? XD
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On June 08 2024 02:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
*Of mine i mean.
Idk if i should be worried about that marv read on her, but it definitely raises my eebrows. For what it's worth I was thinking/going to say the same thing. Feels exceptionally uninsightful from marvellosity.
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Worst List Post of All Time
Town
Maybe Town
rsoultin + Show Spoiler +It's very easy to follow her thought process.
raynpelikoneet + Show Spoiler +Raynpelikoneet is generally helpful, but in this game, he's shown original/unique thought, as opposed to just "normal" lines of reasoning.
Mocsta + Show Spoiler +This is a dangerous read since I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding what Mocsta is getting at sometimes and I don't have the focus to try and wade through it and actually figure it out, but I still like how Mocsta is very willing to go against the thread sentiment. Mafia can imitate this but I think it's much less likely.
Unknown
Oatsmaster + Show Spoiler +Oatsmaster's posting has trended towards my expectations for him, as described here. Unfortunately, I have no idea what that means with regards to Oatsmaster's alignment. Congratulations on wasting your time reading this
scott31337 + Show Spoiler +Made you look
die_meatbaby
sandroba
marvellosity + Show Spoiler +I dunno. Really like his posting style, funniest person in the game by far. But I don't actually like this thoughts all that much, which makes me sad Specifically the post on rsoultin that raynpelikoneet just quoted, I was going to say the same thing. It's very easy to point fingers and say "that person hasn't done anything yet!" when the person in question was only present for the first four and a half pages of the game, when there isn't that much to be done. It's hard for me to understand how marvellosity (of all people) could completely miss this. Feels like taking a cheap shot to discredit someone and make yourself look better.
Vivax + Show Spoiler +He hasn't really made much of an impression to me yet, to be honest.
AlphaZero + Show Spoiler +Not sure. Opening posts seem quite reasonable, but I have a much harder time following the thinking after.
Maybe Mafia
Alakaslam + Show Spoiler +On June 08 2024 02:27 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 22:47 Alakaslam wrote:
Hijole how did I forget this
My work, my work! Don't post too much!
I shall return
When I come back, I expect to see much vote alakaslam based on this... but I can do no different! Uh, maybe I'm falling into the Chezinu trap with Alakaslam, but I actually think this is suspicious? Like, forgetting about the game or going to work or not posting isn't suspicious at all. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also, Alakaslam is one of those people who likes to post as mafia, so him not posting isn't a mafia indicator IMO regardless. What is suspicious is the self awareness. Specifically I am looking at a few games ago, it was a Grackaroni game where he invited everyone to the Discord server and Alakaslam was one of the first three people to join. So when three people joined, he thought that was the mafia Discord server and that he was mafia with them, and he said something like "I can't play for a few hours so go ahead and bus me for a while" which IMO doesn't make much sense, who pushes someone for being away for a few hours? But it shows that Alakaslam is exceptionally self-aware/self-conscious as mafia, particularly about activity levels. Unfortunately I can't say that Alakaslam isn't like this as town. I haven't seen anything to indicate that he has this mindset as town, but it's still possible. Regardless though I think it's worth keeping in mind.
Kelsi3r + Show Spoiler +I admit that I struggled a bit to understand Kelsi3r and Mocsta's discussion but my initial point still stands. On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think.
Mafia
Idk, am I being too stubborn? I legitimately think that Kelsi3r is a valid suspect, and he hasn't done anything to give me pause yet.
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On June 08 2024 03:09 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 03:08 sandroba wrote:On June 08 2024 02:27 rsoultin wrote:On June 08 2024 02:23 scott31337 wrote:On June 08 2024 02:19 rsoultin wrote:
Can we lynch sandy? Possibly, but I'd like to know your reasoning for such. well, narcissism originally haha >< i wanted credit for my truffle read he stole and took all the nuance out of but then he stayed on your stuff after rereading the whole thread and idk feels like there's a lot more going on at this stage i was also feeling icky about the mocsta - kelsier interaction but on rereading the filters separately it seems fine What else is going on on the thread at that point which is juicier than scott which I refrained from commenting on? Also rayn what is good about this read specifically? everything But I'm the shithead
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Like, EVEN IF we ignore the big juicy reason to suspect Kelsi3r:
He hasn't really done anything? List of what he's done:Then the kicker, he stayed around to discuss for a while but just answered questions and didn't actually share any new thoughts. I'd be more okay with this if he'd shared a bunch of thoughts earlier, but this really feels like posting for the sake of posting and not looking to solve the game. Note that he has shared zero suspicions of anyone whatsoever, but seems content to not work towards changing that. And he even said that this is an okay starting point?
Not having any scumreads/suspicions, sure. But in combination with actually being somewhat present and posting? And in combination with the other thing, townreading rsoultin for liking with something that he didn't agree with himself? Would very much like to discuss this.
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On June 08 2024 03:19 sandroba wrote:
Why don't I have a spoiler trfel? No real thoughts on you to be honest. Hopefully I can work it out with more time.
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On June 08 2024 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
as a side note i am still not going to look into kelsier / mocsta (an their argument that i found stupid by skimming), at least before we are out of rsoultin. Is rsoultin a drug we're taking or something?
I didn't understand or get much from the Kelsi3r/Mocsta argument, but ignoring that, I think Kelsi3r looks really really suspicious here.
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On June 08 2024 03:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
While i do that, can you (Trfel) do a Trfel analysis on marv? Sorry, I have no idea what a Trfel analysis is?
I could see marvellosity being mafia (due to the post you mentioned), I just don't think it's super super likely at this time? Like not impossible by any means, just not likely enough for me to want to pursue it, if that makes sense. I think it will become significantly more apparent (one way or another) as time passes, which is part of it.
Other than the rsoultin post though, I don't have much reason to suspect him. I liked how he agreed with my post on Kelsi3r and bolded the most important part. I haven't played with marvellosity as mafia but when we are both town we have tended to see things similarly sometimes, and this reminded me of that.
Most importantly though I think it's best to wait for a while.
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Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all.On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait?
Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him.
Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later.
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On June 08 2024 04:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dont really care what marv does as long as he does something, that should tell enough. Marv can be looking "terrible" as town as well.
One of his something's however is a shit read on rsoultin. marv, elaborate on that? Yes but he didn't do anything?
His mafia reads are scott31337, who he didn't even mention, and Mocsta, who he did ask a question or two to. It doesn't look like uninvested town marvellosity to me, it looks like he doesn't actually care about finding mafia.
Even uninterested town marvellosity would remember his thoughts for later. He wouldn't have many thoughts, but he would still care about the thoughts he did have.
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On June 08 2024 04:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What about AlphaZero, Trfel?
Not sure if to townread them for their posts so far. I wouldn't townread them. But I don't have any real reason to suspect them, either.
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On June 08 2024 04:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 04:21 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 04:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What about AlphaZero, Trfel?
Not sure if to townread them for their posts so far. I wouldn't townread them. But I don't have any real reason to suspect them, either. and Oats? No clue. Oatsmaster always confuses me.
There are two reasons to lynch Kelsi3r though. You disagreed with the first one, whatever, but how about how he only has four town lean ish things and no suspects and has been around but hasn't worked to change that?
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On June 08 2024 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 03:24 sandroba wrote:On June 08 2024 03:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 08 2024 03:16 sandroba wrote:On June 08 2024 03:01 rsoultin wrote:On June 08 2024 02:56 sandroba wrote:On June 08 2024 00:25 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 23:18 sandroba wrote:
So far I like rayn and trfel as town. So what was the point of your comment on Trfel?! Felt off and stood out to me at that point on the thread, I'm content with not pursuing it since further reading points to town. you stole my story who do you wanna lynch if it's not still scott? i'm bored of the scott conversation I'm not over scott. That single post by dmb then fucking off does look really bad, could get behind that. Rayn liking your terrible reasoning without knowing what it is also moves him away from my townie lean what are you talking about regarding me? You said you liked rsoul read on me, then asked her what is the case against me. Explain I "like her read" (lets put it this way -- because i do not necessarily agree with it) on you because in my experience rsoultin hates lying and taking a stance like that (which is not completely unreasonable), points towards her being town. I mean i can go further into this if you want to, but i just dont think she would accuse town!sandroba as mafia!rsoultin (even less if youre both mafia) like that. Basically i don't agree with her, that what you said and did makes you mafia, but i think it makes her town. @Alakaslam, it looks like you are posting as you catch up, but just in case that isn't true, here is the post you said you wanted to see.
I also bring this up to make a point about Kelsi3r. Raynpelikoneet does a very nice job of explaining how he can think someone is town due a read he doesn't agree with. My point though, is, see how it requires a meaningful explanation? Like without the explanation, it doesn't make sense. I can kinda understand Kelsi3r townreading AlphaZero for his scott31337 post, but I really can't understand townreading rsoultin for being interested in AlphaZero's scott31337 post. If he had an explanation that made it make sense I'd consider it, but he doesn't, his explanation is pretty weak imo, and not at all insightful.
It's not that what Kelsi3r did is inherently scummy, it's that the way he went about it doesn't make sense.
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On June 08 2024 04:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 04:24 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 04:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 08 2024 04:21 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 04:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What about AlphaZero, Trfel?
Not sure if to townread them for their posts so far. I wouldn't townread them. But I don't have any real reason to suspect them, either. and Oats? No clue. Oatsmaster always confuses me. There are two reasons to lynch Kelsi3r though. You disagreed with the first one, whatever, but how about how he only has four town lean ish things and no suspects and has been around but hasn't worked to change that? No worries i was just asking stuff to see if you would change your opinion on something that hasnt changed, as not much is happening here. Having four town reads is not bad, i have less tbh. I dont have a REAL suspect tbh, atm i dont need to have... Is it scummy for him? I dont know. Has he been trying to push a lynch (implying he has a strong suspect)? Does he have to do something? I dont know. I dont really find it alignment indicative. It might be alignment indicative though, that he had no idea what's going on and when i told him to read, he apparentyl read your big post in like 5 minutes. I guess I don't really feel like arguing about this but I'm confused, I think the points against Kelsi3r are obvious ans strong and I'm confused why you (and a lot of others) don't agree. It's totally understandable for people to not have strong suspects, but that only is okay if they (1) are looking for suspects or (2) aren't trying at all. Kelsi3r falls into neither category. He's been present and active enough that he's clearly trying, but he has been very content to not have any suspects and hasn't shown any desire to change that.
And his one post probably about 30 minutes ago doesn't change that because these points were valid a while before that post. Plus his post isn't very compelling.
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On June 08 2024 04:36 Kelsi3r wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 04:31 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 08 2024 03:24 sandroba wrote:On June 08 2024 03:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 08 2024 03:16 sandroba wrote:On June 08 2024 03:01 rsoultin wrote:On June 08 2024 02:56 sandroba wrote:On June 08 2024 00:25 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 23:18 sandroba wrote:
So far I like rayn and trfel as town. So what was the point of your comment on Trfel?! Felt off and stood out to me at that point on the thread, I'm content with not pursuing it since further reading points to town. you stole my story who do you wanna lynch if it's not still scott? i'm bored of the scott conversation I'm not over scott. That single post by dmb then fucking off does look really bad, could get behind that. Rayn liking your terrible reasoning without knowing what it is also moves him away from my townie lean what are you talking about regarding me? You said you liked rsoul read on me, then asked her what is the case against me. Explain I "like her read" (lets put it this way -- because i do not necessarily agree with it) on you because in my experience rsoultin hates lying and taking a stance like that (which is not completely unreasonable), points towards her being town. I mean i can go further into this if you want to, but i just dont think she would accuse town!sandroba as mafia!rsoultin (even less if youre both mafia) like that. Basically i don't agree with her, that what you said and did makes you mafia, but i think it makes her town. @Alakaslam, it looks like you are posting as you catch up, but just in case that isn't true, here is the post you said you wanted to see. I also bring this up to make a point about Kelsi3r. Raynpelikoneet does a very nice job of explaining how he can think someone is town due a read he doesn't agree with. My point though, is, see how it requires a meaningful explanation? Like without the explanation, it doesn't make sense. I can kinda understand Kelsi3r townreading AlphaZero for his scott31337 post, but I really can't understand townreading rsoultin for being interested in AlphaZero's scott31337 post. If he had an explanation that made it make sense I'd consider it, but he doesn't, his explanation is pretty weak imo, and not at all insightful. It's not that what Kelsi3r did is inherently scummy, it's that the way he went about it doesn't make sense. you need to drop this shit I will drop it once I have a reason to?
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On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point.
Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing?
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On June 08 2024 07:38 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:37 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 02:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well at least i found one true town in rsoultin.
Best read so dar. Based on your well known excellent read of her, as you yourself mentioned?  Also based on rsoultins filter at the time I don’t see how you can disagree with what I said The argument isn't really about rsoultin's filter, it's that rsoultin's last post at the time in question was about halfway down page 8 of the thread.
I don't understand what you are expecting her, or anyone for that matter, to say, at that point in the thread when there is so little actual information to work with?
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On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it.
I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet)
Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax?
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On June 08 2024 07:45 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 03:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 08 2024 01:13 marvellosity wrote:
Rsoultin’s filter is full of a lot of nothing, having just given it a quick read. Don’t see much of an original thought about anything, but plenty of words to say so I mean i really really hate this post. Explain yourself!! Talk to me marvellosity, I'm pretty sure raynpelikoneet and I are seeing the same thing.
Unless we aren't, in which I guess I'm just really stupid. But still talk to me, because I still have an issue with your post. Just, you know, talk to raynpelikoneet too I guess.
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I just put it in the post right above? #503?
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On June 08 2024 07:46 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? Sandros catchup posting resonated with me. He seemed to be just comfortable putting things out there. Vivax im not sure anyone should how anyone could call him town right now. He looked ok initially. Recently pretty meh. I agree about Vivax, he feels decidedly meh to me.
Can I ask more about sandroba? Are you referring to the posts 2 hours ago, or 4? Because reading over both, I don't actually feel like he is doing much, just kinda asking questions. This isn't bad per se, but it doesn't really give me any reason to townread him? He hasn't had a ton of meaningful thoughts in a while imo.
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On June 08 2024 07:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:40 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:38 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 07:37 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 02:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well at least i found one true town in rsoultin.
Best read so dar. Based on your well known excellent read of her, as you yourself mentioned? Also based on rsoultins filter at the time I don’t see how you can disagree with what I said The argument isn't really about rsoultin's filter, it's that rsoultin's last post at the time in question was about halfway down page 8 of the thread. I don't understand what you are expecting her, or anyone for that matter, to say, at that point in the thread when there is so little actual information to work with? Okay. Here it is. To be frank I had no idea where in the thread rsouls last post went to. I just clicked her filter because someone (??) mentioned her and I looked and didn’t see much. If the context of the thread is that she shouldn’t have said anything, I am more than happy to stand corrected. I mean, I assume there was a reason she was in my null pile when I made the list I mean I guess it depends on your standards for post quality by mid page 8. To me, there wasn't a ton worth deeply analyzing, just the scott31337 thing and maybe a small raynpelikoneet thing if you care about that.
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On June 08 2024 07:59 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:56 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:51 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 07:40 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:38 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 07:37 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 02:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well at least i found one true town in rsoultin.
Best read so dar. Based on your well known excellent read of her, as you yourself mentioned? Also based on rsoultins filter at the time I don’t see how you can disagree with what I said The argument isn't really about rsoultin's filter, it's that rsoultin's last post at the time in question was about halfway down page 8 of the thread. I don't understand what you are expecting her, or anyone for that matter, to say, at that point in the thread when there is so little actual information to work with? Okay. Here it is. To be frank I had no idea where in the thread rsouls last post went to. I just clicked her filter because someone (??) mentioned her and I looked and didn’t see much. If the context of the thread is that she shouldn’t have said anything, I am more than happy to stand corrected. I mean, I assume there was a reason she was in my null pile when I made the list I mean I guess it depends on your standards for post quality by mid page 8. To me, there wasn't a ton worth deeply analyzing, just the scott31337 thing and maybe a small raynpelikoneet thing if you care about that. You misunderstood what I said truffle I don't think I did? But maybe I'm just stupid. Regardless I don't think it's important.
I mean maybe me being stupid is important in the negative sense, but that's a bit harder to fix.
Regardless I'm happy to let this drop for now and let you do your thing.
On June 08 2024 07:59 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:53 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? Sandros catchup posting resonated with me. He seemed to be just comfortable putting things out there. Vivax im not sure anyone should how anyone could call him town right now. He looked ok initially. Recently pretty meh. I agree about Vivax, he feels decidedly meh to me. Can I ask more about sandroba? Are you referring to the posts 2 hours ago, or 4? Because reading over both, I don't actually feel like he is doing much, just kinda asking questions. This isn't bad per se, but it doesn't really give me any reason to townread him? He hasn't had a ton of meaningful thoughts in a while imo. I’m talking about his catchup and entry into the thread. If you don’t think it’s bad what’s the issue. Sandro will look townie if he is town. I don't see a ton wrong with what sandroba has posted tbh, it's more that I think he's capable of more? I was just trying to understand since it felt like a lot of people were having him as a top scumread and I am not seeing that super easily.
On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? What do you mean by seeing shadows? Is that the same as being afraid to post, or something different?
Do you not expect Vivax to randomly call some things town if he is town?
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On June 08 2024 08:07 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:05 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:59 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 07:56 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:51 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 07:40 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:38 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 07:37 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 02:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well at least i found one true town in rsoultin.
Best read so dar. Based on your well known excellent read of her, as you yourself mentioned? Also based on rsoultins filter at the time I don’t see how you can disagree with what I said The argument isn't really about rsoultin's filter, it's that rsoultin's last post at the time in question was about halfway down page 8 of the thread. I don't understand what you are expecting her, or anyone for that matter, to say, at that point in the thread when there is so little actual information to work with? Okay. Here it is. To be frank I had no idea where in the thread rsouls last post went to. I just clicked her filter because someone (??) mentioned her and I looked and didn’t see much. If the context of the thread is that she shouldn’t have said anything, I am more than happy to stand corrected. I mean, I assume there was a reason she was in my null pile when I made the list I mean I guess it depends on your standards for post quality by mid page 8. To me, there wasn't a ton worth deeply analyzing, just the scott31337 thing and maybe a small raynpelikoneet thing if you care about that. You misunderstood what I said truffle I don't think I did? But maybe I'm just stupid. Regardless I don't think it's important. I mean maybe me being stupid is important in the negative sense, but that's a bit harder to fix. Regardless I'm happy to let this drop for now and let you do your thing.
On June 08 2024 07:59 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:53 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? Sandros catchup posting resonated with me. He seemed to be just comfortable putting things out there. Vivax im not sure anyone should how anyone could call him town right now. He looked ok initially. Recently pretty meh. I agree about Vivax, he feels decidedly meh to me. Can I ask more about sandroba? Are you referring to the posts 2 hours ago, or 4? Because reading over both, I don't actually feel like he is doing much, just kinda asking questions. This isn't bad per se, but it doesn't really give me any reason to townread him? He hasn't had a ton of meaningful thoughts in a while imo. I’m talking about his catchup and entry into the thread. If you don’t think it’s bad what’s the issue. Sandro will look townie if he is town. I don't see a ton wrong with what sandroba has posted tbh, it's more that I think he's capable of more? I was just trying to understand since it felt like a lot of people were having him as a top scumread and I am not seeing that super easily.
On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? What do you mean by seeing shadows? Is that the same as being afraid to post, or something different? Do you not expect Vivax to randomly call some things town if he is town? Bottom point is bad play as mafia attempting to look random and post random unsubstantiated things. You’ve played with vivax before, you know how he gets seeing shadows if he’s town. I guess you're describing Vivax's tinfoily-ness?
I mean yeah, posting an unsubstantiated townread isn't the most compelling, but to be honest I thought it was common for people to have little/no explanation for early townreads?
Like I don't see anything amazing in Vivax's filter, it's kinda meh imo. I do like that he commented on AlphaZero dropping his scumread on scott31337 (I don't agree that this is what AlphaZero did, but I think it's reasonable for Vivax to think and believe this and I think it shows that he's paying attention, even if imo he got it wrong). I don't really understand how he can townread marvellosity so easily, and imo he could definitely have more quality/content. I'm not seeing much reason to lynch him though, his posting is a little underwhelming but not coming across as mafia motivated to me.
By all means do your thing, if you have more specific things I should look at I'm happy to take a look at them and I definitely could be missing stuff. I'm just not seeing it at a glance.
On June 08 2024 08:08 Oatsmaster wrote:@trfel Show nested quote + it felt like a lot of people were having him as a top scumread and I am not seeing that super easily. Imma need you to source this please, who has him as a top scum read currenrly It's just an impression I got, I could absolutely be wrong. Maybe it was just rsoultin being really vocal. Don't really care enough to check.
On June 08 2024 08:13 Vivax wrote:
I‘m at work fyi. Can‘t be all over the thread as usual. I‘m also in a really shitty mood but some who pretend to know me can likely figure it out Sorry Vivax, hope you feel better soon
@marvellosity, I definitely could be wrong, that's just my attempt to understand your perspective. Even if I'm not very good at it I don't see an alternative to trying?
Also about Mocsta, are you referring to this?On June 07 2024 22:53 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 22:50 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 22:38 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 22:37 Mocsta wrote:On June 07 2024 22:25 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 17:05 Mocsta wrote:
*filter starts*
Hi
On plane about to take off.
I'm surprised by quant of posts and even more so that peoples essence is bringing back such strong memories. Pretty cool.
Have skim read. Trfel stood out to me as sentiment over a few posts felt forced / overly processed%. Not sure if that's his meta though. Certainly not a scum claim. Also felt a little similar with rsoultin. Specifically, please? I retracted later No, you said he improved. So the original posts must remain. What were they? *coughs* Twas reading his filter Nothing comes to mind in the same way which aligns with my retraction to be fair. I suspect it was related to his flow in the early game. I found it disjointed when read as a thread.
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Rsoultin, I understand what you're saying about sandroba, but that strikes me more as reasons to not townread him than as reasons to scumread him? What am I missing?
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Not really sure what to say.
I don't know what to think of scott31337, he looks suspicious but I feel like I've mislynched him a million times and I'm not sure if this game is any different I was trying to mess with him to change something and let me get a read on him but it didn't really work. Maybe I should see if the discrepancies in his posts are mafia motivated? I guess that makes sense?
I don't think the early thing about masons/whisperers/whatever had much mafia motivation. It's clumsy, but honestly it strikes me more as clumsy than scummy.
I actually kinda liked scott31337's post on AlphaZero. Not that I agree with it, but I think it's a reasonable perspective for scott31337 to have as town? I don't know why he would do this as mafia, I guess I doubt he'd have the confidence? I could definitely be wrong, but like, scott31337 brought up an original argument. That's pretty neat. Even if it's (imo) a bad argument, I'm still pleasantly surprised
So yeah, I kinda don't want to lynch scott31337. Could absolutely be wrong, it's far from the worst lynch ever, but I don't find the arguments super compelling given the context.
Don't really want to lynch sandroba either unless something changes, either in his play or in my read. His play hasn't been super inspiring or anything imo, but I don't think that makes him mafia. Maybe if we keep waiting and this doesn't change I could start to see it but we haven't even been playing for 24 hours, I don't think it's reasonable to hold him to super high standards at this time. If he did something scummy that'd be different, but a lack of super towny stuff doesn't make him mafia imo.
I guess I'll just wait and hope that either people re-evaluate Kelsi3r or I'm wrong (which is pretty likely tbh, I have no idea how to find mafia on day 1 especially, my reads tend to be more accurate when flipped upside down). So maybe it's a good thing that no one agrees XD
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On June 08 2024 09:12 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 09:10 Trfel wrote:Not really sure what to say. I don't know what to think of scott31337, he looks suspicious but I feel like I've mislynched him a million times and I'm not sure if this game is any different I was trying to mess with him to change something and let me get a read on him but it didn't really work. Maybe I should see if the discrepancies in his posts are mafia motivated? I guess that makes sense? Idon't think the early thing about masons/whisperers/whatever had much mafia motivation. It's clumsy, but honestly it strikes me more as clumsy than scummy.I actually kinda liked scott31337's post on AlphaZero. Not that I agree with it, but I think it's a reasonable perspective for scott31337 to have as town? I don't know why he would do this as mafia, I guess I doubt he'd have the confidence? I could definitely be wrong, but like, scott31337 brought up an original argument. That's pretty neat. Even if it's (imo) a bad argument, I'm still pleasantly surprised So yeah, I kinda don't want to lynch scott31337. Could absolutely be wrong, it's far from the worst lynch ever, but I don't find the arguments super compelling given the context.
Don't really want to lynch sandroba either unless something changes, either in his play or in my read. His play hasn't been super inspiring or anything imo, but I don't think that makes him mafia. Maybe if we keep waiting and this doesn't change I could start to see it but we haven't even been playing for 24 hours, I don't think it's reasonable to hold him to super high standards at this time. If he did something scummy that'd be different, but a lack of super towny stuff doesn't make him mafia imo.
I guess I'll just wait and hope that either people re-evaluate Kelsi3r or I'm wrong (which is pretty likely tbh, I have no idea how to find mafia on day 1 especially, my reads tend to be more accurate when flipped upside down). So maybe it's a good thing that no one agrees XD Or clumsy in a scummy way Theoretically yes, but that's not how I read it.
I guess I don't put much weight in the idea that scum say little things to look like they're present without actually doing anything. Or rather, I think town ends up with similar posts pretty often, especially at the start of the game. It's just hard for me to say with any confidence that this is a scum trait. Maybe for strong town players it could be scummy, but I see this from less confident town players all the time.
I also don't think that the way scott31337 posted came from a mafia motivated mindset. Like, why would scott31337 be more inclined to make that series of posts as mafia than as town? I guess I just don't get it. Don't misunderstand, I don't think scott31337's posts make any sense, but I don't think they make sense in a mafia way, more just a general illogical way.
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AlphaZero, have you played much with scott31337?
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I guess I thought scott31337 was super easy lunchbait. But I checked his past games and he survived a surprising amount, like three of the past six, compared to only being mislynched twice.
I still think he is lynchbait though, regardless of the "facts"
Nothing wrong with him at all, just the way he communicates makes it really easy to find logical inconsistencies. There was one game in particular I remember being mafia and I got him lynched, every single one of his posts gave me more and more ammunition. The poor guy just couldn't make a post that I couldn't make look really bad.
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On June 08 2024 10:10 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 09:57 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:52 rsoultin wrote:On June 08 2024 09:46 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Source on the mafia meta read? Are you looking for the weakest players again like in your last mafia game? do you feel vivax is one of the weakest players in this game? this is a genuine question because i wouldn't normally consider him a weak player in a vacuum, at least as town No not at all. V already played a lot of mafia games on many different websides and some of that are really good. It´s just my thing that I am always try to read him first. And this was more like a general question to oats, because in his last game (mafia Oats) just posted kill dmb. vote dmb. scum dmb... and he came almost through with this bs on just hitting on the weak players, newbe or how ever you want to call me just because my husband (artanis) mentioned this pre-game, i want to confirm, you and viva are a thing? is that why you try to always read him first? and if so, why would you assume others would? or is that not what you were trying to say when you entered the thread This is true, at least that they are together.
Also, getting advice from Artanis? Seems helpful
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Idk, I guesssss we could talk about AlphaZero but I don't think it'd be that helpful to talk about them today. I guess we still have over 24 hours but I'd kinda rather start to focus on lynch targets for Day 1.
Unless you want to lynch AlphaZero today, in which case feel free to explain, but currently I think that is very unlikely to happen.
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My main worry with Kelsi3r is that I worry I just bullied him out of the thread. Which wasn't my intention at all, but I could see the possibility of him taking it that way.
I don't really think any other lynch makes sense right now though?
I'm conflicted/unsure about Oatsmaster, a lot of people think he is town though. I'm hesitant to lynch scott31337. I think die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, sandroba, marvellosity, and Vivax would benefit from more time. Mocsta too, but I think it's a little easier to read him.
It's a combination of Kelsi3r looking really suspicious and no one else looking like a sensible lynch target. Lynching scott31337 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world I guesssss but it would be very far from ideal imo.
On June 08 2024 10:45 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 10:38 Trfel wrote:
Idk, I guesssss we could talk about AlphaZero but I don't think it'd be that helpful to talk about them today. I guess we still have over 24 hours but I'd kinda rather start to focus on lynch targets for Day 1.
Unless you want to lynch AlphaZero today, in which case feel free to explain, but currently I think that is very unlikely to happen. Pls feel free to explain What part do you want me to explain? People haven't talked about suspecting AlphaZero very much so far. Most of what people have shared is that they are inclined to think they are town, tbh. So I think it's pretty ambitious to expect people's minds to change that dramatically, that quickly. Like, it takes time for discussion to happen and for people to share ideas. Also, it's typical to lynch a less active/involved player on Day 1, it's not a rule, it's just much more common. AlphaZero doesn't fit that mold. Those things combined make me think that realistically, AlphaZero is extremely unlikely to be lynched today, so with the deadline coming up, I'd rather start to focus on people who are more realistic targets.
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@Kelsi3r, if you see this and are town, please, please, please talk to me. I'm not trying to attack you, just trying to discuss and figure things out. If it would help I'm happy to let you do your thing and see where that leads us. If there is anything I am missing, please let me know.
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On June 08 2024 10:55 rsoultin wrote:
tbf this is largely how i make reads on people, discussing the entire game with others in thread rather than just focusing on today's lynch? but point taken. don't want to make the thread completely unreadable I think it depends on how much time there is until the lynch, imo when it gets closer to the lynch it's helpful to focus a bit. Night 1 I'd be more than happy to talk about anything and everything.
On June 08 2024 10:56 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 10:51 Trfel wrote:My main worry with Kelsi3r is that I worry I just bullied him out of the thread. Which wasn't my intention at all, but I could see the possibility of him taking it that way. I don't really think any other lynch makes sense right now though? I'm conflicted/unsure about Oatsmaster, a lot of people think he is town though. I'm hesitant to lynch scott31337. I think die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, sandroba, marvellosity, and Vivax would benefit from more time. Mocsta too, but I think it's a little easier to read him. It's a combination of Kelsi3r looking really suspicious and no one else looking like a sensible lynch target. Lynching scott31337 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world I guesssss but it would be very far from ideal imo.
On June 08 2024 10:45 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 10:38 Trfel wrote:
Idk, I guesssss we could talk about AlphaZero but I don't think it'd be that helpful to talk about them today. I guess we still have over 24 hours but I'd kinda rather start to focus on lynch targets for Day 1.
Unless you want to lynch AlphaZero today, in which case feel free to explain, but currently I think that is very unlikely to happen. Pls feel free to explain What part do you want me to explain? People haven't talked about suspecting AlphaZero very much so far. Most of what people have shared is that they are inclined to think they are town, tbh. So I think it's pretty ambitious to expect people's minds to change that dramatically, that quickly. Like, it takes time for discussion to happen and for people to share ideas. Also, it's typical to lynch a less active/involved player on Day 1, it's not a rule, it's just much more common. AlphaZero doesn't fit that mold. Those things combined make me think that realistically, AlphaZero is extremely unlikely to be lynched today, so with the deadline coming up, I'd rather start to focus on people who are more realistic targets. Make your stance on alphazeros alignment please the waffle is tiresome I don't have much to discuss about AlphaZero. I kinda think they are town but it's a weak read. I generally don't like to talk about townreads, especially not weak ones. How have I been waffling on AlphaZero, of all people, since I haven't said anything about them?
On June 08 2024 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 10:51 Trfel wrote:My main worry with Kelsi3r is that I worry I just bullied him out of the thread. Which wasn't my intention at all, but I could see the possibility of him taking it that way. I don't really think any other lynch makes sense right now though? I'm conflicted/unsure about Oatsmaster, a lot of people think he is town though. I'm hesitant to lynch scott31337. I think die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, sandroba, marvellosity, and Vivax would benefit from more time. Mocsta too, but I think it's a little easier to read him. It's a combination of Kelsi3r looking really suspicious and no one else looking like a sensible lynch target. Lynching scott31337 wouldn't be the worst thing in the world I guesssss but it would be very far from ideal imo.
On June 08 2024 10:45 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 10:38 Trfel wrote:
Idk, I guesssss we could talk about AlphaZero but I don't think it'd be that helpful to talk about them today. I guess we still have over 24 hours but I'd kinda rather start to focus on lynch targets for Day 1.
Unless you want to lynch AlphaZero today, in which case feel free to explain, but currently I think that is very unlikely to happen. Pls feel free to explain What part do you want me to explain? People haven't talked about suspecting AlphaZero very much so far. Most of what people have shared is that they are inclined to think they are town, tbh. So I think it's pretty ambitious to expect people's minds to change that dramatically, that quickly. Like, it takes time for discussion to happen and for people to share ideas. Also, it's typical to lynch a less active/involved player on Day 1, it's not a rule, it's just much more common. AlphaZero doesn't fit that mold. Those things combined make me think that realistically, AlphaZero is extremely unlikely to be lynched today, so with the deadline coming up, I'd rather start to focus on people who are more realistic targets. Why are you conflicted about me? You’ve said this a couple times but haven’t expanded with posts or reasoning The issue is that your playstyle, seemingly regardless of alignment, seems scummy to me. This makes it hard to figure out if you are town or mafia, because you always seem scummy. I'm trying to work on it but unfortunately I can't magically get better.
Honestly I don't know. You're going to have to live with that, I am not going to make something up.
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I should add, it's different if you have something to discuss about AlphaZero. I'm happy to discuss them if you have legit reasons. I just don't think this is the right time for nebulous, ungrounded paranoia. And I don't have any legit reasons.
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Gender neutral he/him, trying to respect the smurf-ness. At least in the US they made they acceptable as singular a while back.
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@Oatsmaster, can you read in context? I was talking to people who are suspicious of AlphaZero, hence my posts.
Yes I could say reasons why you could be mafia but how is that productive if I don't know if it makes you mafia? Like why would I do that?
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On June 08 2024 11:49 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 11:34 Trfel wrote:
@Oatsmaster, can you read in context? I was talking to people who are suspicious of AlphaZero, hence my posts.
Yes I could say reasons why you could be mafia but how is that productive if I don't know if it makes you mafia? Like why would I do that? ? Why are you stopping discussion of someone you don’t have a solid read on then? Because we can determine if those reasons are good enough? Are you seriously asking why it’s good to explain a read? Can you stop misinterpreting my posts? I'm sorry I'm trying to play a board game with some friends and don't have a ton of patience for dealing with this :/
I think it is very common to avoid aimless discussions about people who aren't realistic lynch targets when the deadline is approaching. Like I said, if you have actual reasons or arguments, by all means go ahead. Otherwise, let's focus on the upcoming deadline.
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Sorry for getting frustrated earlier. I shouldn't try and play when I have company over.
Again, I'm more than happy to talk about AlphaZero if anyone has any specifics to discuss. I don't want to just point fingers and suspicions for no reason, that doesn't help anyone. Either get serious and give actual reasons or wait until you have actual reasons, if discrediting people for no reason is commonly acceptable, the game becomes a mess. Maybe I'm blind but I haven't seen any substantial reasons to suspect AlphaZero posted so far.
Oatsmaster
On June 08 2024 00:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax mafia On June 08 2024 05:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think vivax is easily mafia here though, he’s playing super scared to make posts and has resorted to posting inane townreads On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? On June 08 2024 09:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax coming in and complaining about me is clsssic scum!vivax cmon.
The Scott stuff kinda boring, I get it but he’s not mafia These are the important posts I found in Oatsmaster's filter. The rest are mostly questions or random comments, basically things other than sharing his thoughts and pushing his reads. I realize this is subjective, so here is Oatsmaster's filter if you want to look for yourself.
Honestly for having made 61 game posts, I'm pretty underwhelmed. He's had plenty of opportunity, and all he's come up with is this weird Vivax push. I'd like to break down his reasons for suspecting/pushing Vivax.
1. Vivax is scared to post (I'll reinterpret this as Vivax not being very active, it's hard for me to understand how you can interpret a lack of activity as mafia being scared to post)
2. Vivax has made silly townreads without reasoning to back them up
3. Vivax isn't constantly seeing shadows (I think this means he isn't being tinfoil-y?)
4. This post from Vivax is a classic mafia post:On June 08 2024 08:20 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? AZ calls you blanket top town too and it doesn‘t bother you. Doesn‘t surprise me you‘d miss that detail, so it‘s meh. Honestly I don't think these reasons are very good at all.
1. Vivax isn't very active. I don't think low activity means someone is mafia, this is very underwhelming.
2. Vivax made silly townreads without reason. It's common for people to make early townreads with little/no reasoning, and I think this is especially common for Vivax, actually. No clue why this is supposed to be suspicious.
3. Vivax isn't tinfoily. It's 27.5 hours in, there isn't much to be tinfoily about. That tends to happen more in longer games.
4. That post comes from mafia. I think Vivax is making a valid point in the post, I don't see why it is mafia motivated.
So the main thing Oatsmaster has done this game is pretty baseless.
You can make tonereads or vibe reads or whatever, but the substance in Oatsmaster's play just isn't there, despite plenty of opportunity.
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On June 08 2024 14:15 AlphaZero wrote:
Am I an easy mislynch here? How refreshing. Who is suspicious of you? Mocsta, rsoultin, and die_meatbaby right? Am I missing anyone? I guess mayyyybe scott31337? Four votes at most, hardly an easy mislynch.
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On June 08 2024 14:32 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 14:27 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 14:15 AlphaZero wrote:
Am I an easy mislynch here? How refreshing. Who is suspicious of you? Mocsta, rsoultin, and die_meatbaby right? Am I missing anyone? I guess mayyyybe scott31337? Four votes at most, hardly an easy mislynch. I thought you were somewhat interested. I just don’t have the time or inclination to really defend myself so we will see I guess. I'm not interested. I have no reason to suspect you currently. I mean, if someone has some really amazing reasons I'd be more interested, but until then, no. So far I haven't seen any substantial reasons given, just a lot of vague suspicions that have little to no basis.
I hate to be aggressive, but Oatsmaster literally asked for it, so here goes:
Why are we townreading Oatsmaster again? Seriously, look at his filter and look for actual contribution, unless I'm really missing something, all he has as this push on Vivax and his reasons are pretty awful. He's plenty active and belligerent, but I don't see him being interested in finding mafia or figuring things out or actually contributing. Why is this towny?
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Oh joy, an actual reason! Now to go and figure out of it's valid....
That's fair though, I do recall that post by AlphaZero casting a ton of doubt on anyone having a strong read on Kelsi3r being weird. In fact, I think most everyone besides himself has a strong opinion on Kelsi3r, one way or another? I'd forgotten about this, that's a very good point.
I was reading rsoultin's filter out of boredom, I'll try and look at AlphaZero's play through this lens in a bit and see if it fits.
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AlphaZero, you around?
I'm curious about your push on scott31337. I get where you're coming from, but in my experience with scott31337, the dude is incredibly lynchable at all times. I'm not sure if it's possible for him to make a post that doesn't have something scummy in it. Like I said, there was a game a while ago where I was mafia and I was pushing him and whenever he posted to defend himself, I'd just immediately quote that post and use it against him.
Does this perspective have any bearing on your push, and if not, how are you differentiating the two?
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Side note, rsoultin (or someone else who knows), what is tbc short for? It keeps coming up and it's still bothering me ><
In retrospect I'm not actually that happy with rsoultin's read transition from here to here. I mean she does explain it and Kelsi3r did post during that time so I guess I'm very likely being paranoid about nothing but even so it might be worth remembering.
On June 08 2024 14:42 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 13:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
Withholds information how?
Idk why people (trfel&mocsta) don’t wanna talk about az so weird because there has been resistance so it just clouds discussion when a few people were yet to post i.e. put into monitor basket. I would summarise AZ style of play as pulling up inconsistencies and letting others draw conclusions. it is the missing conclusion that i refer to as withhold..
im not talking about withholding reads, those have been aired yet are all over the place and everything is contingent on something else which i associate as a scum thing to do. scott, trfel, trfel, mocsta, trfel, scott, vivax, scott, vivax,vivax,
Like one thing I cannot get past is that AZ is defending Kelsier as if he is a town-read, yet calls him "very null" to the point that anyone attacking is super sus.. I just struggle to see town being this hedged. Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null. Literally the only thing about kelsier in his filter is: Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 21:36 AlphaZero wrote:
I find it funny that mocsta called me out for needlessly nitpicking before nitpicking everything about kelsier's entry post that wasn't bad at all. Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:06 AlphaZero wrote:
Rso can you explain to me why Kellsier seems to be scum read by everyone. Am I missing something here? Time to see if this holds up. I've been thinking about it while finishing the filter dive on rsoultin, as fun as it would be if this characterization is correct, my guess is that it isn't For some things AlphaZero has shared his thoughts/suspicions/insights and not pursued them a ton, but there are other things where he definitely has pursued it pretty hard. It's natural to assume that the latter variety, where he pushed his thoughts, are the ones that he's more passionate about. Which makes a lot of sense tbh. Specifically, see the stubbornness about the scott31337 push.
I guess I'm a little hesitant to criticize AlphaZero for this because this description:I would summarise AZ style of play as pulling up inconsistencies and letting others draw conclusions.
it is the missing conclusion that i refer to as withhold.. is kinda my playstyle? At least, it was for a long time and still kinda is now? So it's hard for me to say it's clearly scummy.
List of AlphaZero's posts with interesting/meaningful thoughts
+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2024 12:11 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 11:03 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Ha! Still not mafia.
Mason me pls! I've never been in a Mason game before. I understand what it is, but what are the advantages for town on its usage? Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 11:18 scott31337 wrote:
Masons are town flavored because they usually confirm people. These are more like neighbor roles that the OP discusses. Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 11:22 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:20 Vivax wrote:On June 07 2024 11:03 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 11:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Ha! Still not mafia.
Mason me pls! I've never been in a Mason game before. I understand what it is, but what are the advantages for town on its usage? Seemingly harmless question with emphasis on trying to look useful. Scum-meter vibrates slightly. Oats with acceptable vibe so far. It was an honest question and Rayn answered what I was looking for. 🚩🚩🚩 On June 07 2024 12:12 AlphaZero wrote:
Vivax looks town. On June 07 2024 15:47 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 14:58 Trfel wrote:
Okay so it was the former. Still though I have a hard time understanding Oatsmaster's posts..... Idk maybe he's just town because his posting looks really awful but I don't think he would do that as mafia because he knows better and can do better? Which is a pretty darn stupid argument but it's the best I have? Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 15:03 Trfel wrote:
Like the part I don't get most is that he really really really didn't interact with anyone or get involved. Even when I tried to draw him out a bit. Why come and post in a way that's not productive or interactive? It just looks bad. Which is actually why I think he may be town because of it, it's kinda wifom, but mafia generally isn't going to make themselves look bad for no reason. I think he might be town and just not care that much. I agree with this analysis, but I don't see how this can co-exist with Trfel finding Vivax's vibe read on oats as weird. To me, this is a protracted version of the same read. I'm interested to see what you think of Vivax's read now trfel. On June 07 2024 21:36 AlphaZero wrote:
I find it funny that mocsta called me out for needlessly nitpicking before nitpicking everything about kelsier's entry post that wasn't bad at all.
I find his entrance to be forced, like he is trying too hard to find something scummy.
I am interested in why truffles thinks he doesn't want to lynch mocsta today?
Is it because Mocsta sheeped your push? On June 07 2024 21:37 AlphaZero wrote:
I think Oats is town based on his recent posts. On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. On June 08 2024 07:31 AlphaZero wrote:
All that being said. Scott’s open is the scummiest thing to happen all game, and his later posting doesn’t really turn that around. On June 08 2024 07:46 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? Sandros catchup posting resonated with me. He seemed to be just comfortable putting things out there. Vivax im not sure anyone should how anyone could call him town right now. He looked ok initially. Recently pretty meh. On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax On June 08 2024 08:49 AlphaZero wrote:
Scott not considering the game state with my vivax read and what it means about my alignment is the second scummiest thing that happened this game.
The first being Scott’s opening posts.
Town circle activate!
So there's kind of a lot there, but lemme try and summarize it:
scott31337 is suspicious because of the opening thing with masons/whisperers and because he attacked AlphaZero for switching votes from Vivax to himself
Vivax was town early on, later not so towny and voted for him
Mocsta was suspicious as of post #271 but less so as of #479. See Mocsta's filter (page 2) to see Mocsta's posts in this range, in all honesty I'm not seeing the change in Mocsta's play that prompted this read change. Maybe just taking a step back from the argument would warrant this change in perspective, but idk.
Weird thougths on me (Trfel)
Null read on Kelsi3r
A few townreads on other people (Oatsmaster, sandroba, rsoultin)
Yeah, honestly I'm just not sold about Mocsta's characterization of AlphaZero's play yet. AlphaZero has been quite passionate about his scumread of scott31337, and he's also shown reasonable suspicion of Vivax and Mocsta at different points.
However, I do think that sticking with a strong null read on Kelsi3r is quite interesting. I don't mind so much if AlphaZero has a null read on Kelsi3r, but it's hard for me to understand how someone could have such a big ego that if they can't get a read on someone, no one else can either. I know some people have massive egos but that's next level.
I could maybe look into the weird things AlphaZero has said about me but I'm not convinced it ends up anywhere substantial. However, I am interested in the read switch on Mocsta, AlphaZero went from here:On June 07 2024 23:01 AlphaZero wrote:
I think there is a very good chance mocsta is mafia.
There is a lot of bluster and attacking players which on the surface could look town aligned , but it doesn’t seem like he is genuinely trying to determine alignments to me. to here:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means. And looking at Mocsta's posts in the meantime, it's very hard for me to understand this change. It's possible AlphaZero just changed his perspective, but he said it was a change in Mocsta's posts, so idk.
Don't think that makes AlphaZero mafia yet, but at least those are two reasons, even if not very strong.
Side note, AlphaZero, could you please explain your townread on Oatsmaster? I've read his filter and summarized it (see here), you have a strong townread on Oatsmaster and I'm having a hard time understanding it. Where is the townread coming from?
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On June 08 2024 15:35 Mocsta wrote:
to be confirmed = tbc On June 08 2024 02:30 rsoultin wrote:
also tbc truffle looks good now <3 doesn't mean i don't want credit pfft
marv i like that seems like the easiest read ever but whatevs, the pounce on sandy gave my good vibes even if he later got the dumbs and backed off over a kelsier townread On June 08 2024 10:21 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 10:15 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 10:06 rsoultin wrote:On June 08 2024 10:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 10:02 rsoultin wrote:
okay, who i'm not lynching today:
scott, oats, truffle, mocsta, marv
my weakest townreads of those is scott but i get where he's coming from on too many things and i don't like too many people pushing him
everything else is negotiable. i think i'd prefer to lynch into sandy, kelsier and viva
rayn and az i'm not comfy with but don't want to lynch cause i don't trust i'm not just being overly paranoid with them
slam and dmb i don't particularly care about though i'm inclined to sheep marv's sheeping rayn on the slam read why don´t you care about me cause you haven't posted enough for me to get any sort of read on? i'll let you know if and when that changes why do you think you are paranoid about az? I have this problem with rayn that in every fucking game that we are playing I am reading him wrong. He is mafia I think he is town and the other way around. So it´s really very hard for me to make a opinion on him and i am Paranoid as hell as soon as I think i found his aligment. He is a strong town player but sadly also a strong mafia player. I am scared to make a read on him especially when it´s this early in the game lol same regarding rayn well az reminds me of another player whose scum game consists of buddying top townies (and by this i mean the 'good players' the community here generally listens to) and crawling so far up their asses he goes under the radar. idk that this is the same player but the interchange with marv is giving me those vibes. tbc marv is good, but i guess i mean the people who have the most pull if people are reading them town now i don't know that az's the same person or not so that's not reason enough to scumread him at all. but his view of the game also isn't aligning with mine on several fronts so those two things together earns him the rayn tier of i don't fucking know. i'm hoping if he's town that'll become clear in further discussion lol >< But that doesn't make sense
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Few random notes.
Going to bed now, I'll be on my phone until I get tired, I have no idea how long that will take. However when I get tired I tend to get tired very quickly and thus won't be able to say that I am falling asleep, so if I stop posting, I most likely fell asleep.
I'll be out for most of tomorrow, if you guys post a ton or have super deep analysis I'll likely fall behind until I can catch up in the evening (I'm not very good at playing mafia on my phone).
Currently want to lynch Kelsi3r, confused and curious about scott31337 and Oatsmaster, a little intrigued by AlphaZero and Alakaslam. Guess I can read through die_meatbaby's filter now that she's been around a bit.
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To be clear makes sense. Thanks!
Interesting about AlphaZero/BetaOne, sorry for misinterpreting that. I'll keep thinking about it. I like how you actually looked at his filter and have reasons, that's very helpful.
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I guess I just can't get over this Oatsmaster thing. Everyone says he's town, I've looked as hard as I can and I've explained my thoughts and no one says anything? I get that I'm probably just being bad but it's hard for me to be less bad if people don't help me understand their perspective?
Like I put in the effort to explain where I am coming from, I'd really appreciate a bit of help on this one. How should I be approaching this, if my current approach isn't good?
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I agree with rsoultin's sentiment that die_meatbaby warning Oatsmaster about picking on the weakest players doesn't make sense. Die_meatbaby isn't accusing Oatsmaster of being mafia, or even saying that's what Oatsmaster is doing this game, just that Oatsmaster did that previously as mafia and she doesn't want him to do it again.
My question is, why not? If Oatsmaster did that before as mafia and he does it again, isn't that a giveaway and wouldn't it make him an easy lynch? I'd think you'd be thanking him for doing that in all honesty.
Also I think it's really really funny that die_meatbaby asked AlphaZero for a previous game, that would completely delete the purpose of making a smurf account
Other than AlphaZero I have no idea who die_meatbaby suspects at all though. She said Vivax is town, and had a weak reason to townread rsoultin, but that was about it. In the end I don't have any meaningful impression of die_meatbaby's alignment but I think it will be more clear with more time.
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I'm actually strangely okay with not lynching scott31337? Which kinda shocks me, I never thought I'd see the day. I'm confused about how he puts Oatsmaster in the "do not lynch today" category and just a bit later is throwing shade on Oatsmaster and is disappointed in (I think) raynpelikoneet and sandroba townreading Oatsmaster. Not very significant but it's the main thing that sticks out to me at this point?
Raynpelikoneet post #177 is confusing me, in my tired state I am having a hard time understanding what he is referring to. Also I'm a little confused why he strongly disagreed with me about Kelsi3r and then I pushed back and he said he agreed? I didn't really say anything new, just tried to rephrase it to make it more clear, I guess I'm
just surprised that that actually made a difference tbh. No real reasons to suspect him though.
Raynpelikoneet said he was going to be busy today so he would need to figure things out early but idk if he did that? He seemed mostly uninterested in the scott31337 stuff and back and forth on the Kelsi3r stuff. I don't actually know who he thinks is mafia, which is very much against what I expect from raynpelikoneet (regardless of alignment).
Honestly that might be worth some thinking. Raynpelikoneet with one of the longest, if not the longest, filters in the game, and seemingly no scumreads? I'm confused, but I'm not so confident in raynpelikoneet being town anymore. Actually pretty suspicious.
Mocsta and marvellosity look okay enough for now I think. Unfortunately I am not a Vivax whisperer, would love to understand all these incredible reads he has but I am not seeing what he is getting at. Oh well, what can I do
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On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though.
@marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily.
Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc.
Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not?
Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster.
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On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. I'd like to go back to this, actually. Can you help show me where you're seeing meaningful contribution besides Oatsmaster's push on Vivax? Or ways that Oatsmaster's push on Vivax has more substance/quality than I gave it credit for?
My interpretation is that Oatsmaster has been unhelpful besides the push on Vivax, and that his push on Vivax is unfounded and based on poor reasoning. If you disagree, if you could point me to examples of why, that'd be great.
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AlphaZero, honestly I get the impression you are ignoring me. Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but I would at least like to clarify if it's because you think I am mafia or because you think I am not being productive or what.
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On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation.
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On June 08 2024 20:01 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 19:56 Trfel wrote:
AlphaZero, honestly I get the impression you are ignoring me. Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but I would at least like to clarify if it's because you think I am mafia or because you think I am not being productive or what. Honestly I’m not ignoring you intentionally. I’m reading and considering about your posts. I don’t really agree with some of your conclusions, but I don’t want to stop you from doing your thing, or get bogged down in arguing about it. Did I miss a question you asked me? I’m just using the little time I have to follow my own lines of inquiry. Fair enough. Also if you have limited time then by all means focus on what stands out to you.
If your time wasn't limited I was wondering about your Oatsmaster read, since you seem very convinced he is town and as I described, it's hard for me to see that right now.
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On June 08 2024 20:05 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Why do you think it’s good to talk about me when I’m clearly not a day 1 lynch? Is it not the exact same situation as alpha zero? One and a half differences.
One difference: I brought legit reasons to talk about. Not random suspicions and paranoia and spookies.
Half difference: not being able to figure out your alignment, especially having such a dramatically different take on it than everyone else does, is driving me insane.
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On June 08 2024 20:05 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:03 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation. You’re not being stupid. I’m just engaging in conversation and explaining my thoughts. You don’t seem to be interested in him so I’m just talking a little about why I am Fair. I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I'm happy to discuss this. Admittedly I haven't found a ton of reason to suspect Mocsta, but I could be missing things.
Like, Mocsta's thought processes are very, very different from mine. To the point where some of what he says just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think this is scummy, my interpretation is that he just sees things differently than I do. I can try and look through his filter.
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On June 08 2024 20:13 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:07 marvellosity wrote:
My bones are telling me there’s a mafia in rsoul/rayn Stop stealing my ideas Where did this come from? I didn't see any suspicions of them in your filter tbh.
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On June 08 2024 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:08 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Why do you think it’s good to talk about me when I’m clearly not a day 1 lynch? Is it not the exact same situation as alpha zero? One and a half differences. One difference: I brought legit reasons to talk about. Not random suspicions and paranoia and spookies. Half difference: not being able to figure out your alignment, especially having such a dramatically different take on it than everyone else does, is driving me insane. Your legit reasons are random spookiness to everyone else as you can see it hasn’t gained any traction. So again I ask, what’s the difference? Your main point was that alpha zero wasn’t a day 1 lynch so he shouldn’t be discussed No, no, that's not how this works. Reasons can be good or bad, random spookiness isn't a bad reason, it's no reason, it's fearmongering.
I've said this like five times now. One more. I don't want to discuss someone if all of the following are true:
1. near a lynch deadline
2. the person in question is extremely unlikely to be lynched
3. there are no actual reasons presented to suspect the person. Note that this is very different from bad reasons.
Once again, and for the last time, all three things have to be true. As you can see this with AlphaZero, I didn't want to discuss him when there were no reasons. As soon as Mocsta posted his reasons, I discussed it with him, and I would be happy to continue discussing based on those reasons.
I don't get how this is so hard to understand?
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On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all.
There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities:
- Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way
- Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it.
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On June 08 2024 20:27 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:14 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:03 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation. You’re not being stupid. I’m just engaging in conversation and explaining my thoughts. You don’t seem to be interested in him so I’m just talking a little about why I am Fair. I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I'm happy to discuss this. Admittedly I haven't found a ton of reason to suspect Mocsta, but I could be missing things. Like, Mocsta's thought processes are very, very different from mine. To the point where some of what he says just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think this is scummy, my interpretation is that he just sees things differently than I do. I can try and look through his filter. There is a ton of info to draw from in order to have a more substantive conclusion than this one. What? Where does this come from?
I mean my view is that Mocsta is likely town. I'm trying to be open to the possibility that I am wrong, would you rather I refuse to re-evaluate?!
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On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 16:44 Kelsi3r wrote:
I enjoyed Alpha Zero pointing out that scott had basically answered his own question and giving it a red flag. I love shit like that.
What does it say about scott? I don't know
But rsoutlin also liked it so I guess I like Alpha and rsoultin at this early stage.
Trefl and rayn were posting a lot and having a discussion, i've always been a sucker for activity = town . But ngl I didn't read a lot of the posts and sort of glazed over.
That's an ok starting point.
Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious. If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place. And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however? New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero?
And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree
I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though.
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Ahhh I can't keep up with reading or discussing at this pace on my phone On June 08 2024 20:38 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:36 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:27 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 20:14 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:03 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 19:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Fundamentally I just think there’s so much weak sauce in there. Some of which I’ve talked about, some of which I haven’t (like p, just as a random example, taking a scott post commenting on DMB’s absence. It means nothing for Scott’s alignment either way. Obviously either alignment can make that sort of post. How has this even made it into an analysis?) I’m wary of falling into the trap that this must mean mafia. As I can understand why you have posted what you have said about him here. But meeeeeeeeeh Maybe I'm being stupid but what I meant was more that Mocsta has provided more information with which to get a read on him, one way or another. As in, there shouldn't be many null reads on Mocsta imo, the information is there, just up to people to interpret it. I feel like his posting is polarizing, depending on how you interpret it it is solidly town or solidly mafia, but just hard to get a null interpretation. You’re not being stupid. I’m just engaging in conversation and explaining my thoughts. You don’t seem to be interested in him so I’m just talking a little about why I am Fair. I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I'm happy to discuss this. Admittedly I haven't found a ton of reason to suspect Mocsta, but I could be missing things. Like, Mocsta's thought processes are very, very different from mine. To the point where some of what he says just doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think this is scummy, my interpretation is that he just sees things differently than I do. I can try and look through his filter. There is a ton of info to draw from in order to have a more substantive conclusion than this one. What? Where does this come from? I mean my view is that Mocsta is likely town. I'm trying to be open to the possibility that I am wrong, would you rather I refuse to re-evaluate?! No, I just want clarity on your reasons I guess. Because for whatever reason they are not clear to me. Main reason is that he's been present, involved, and has unique/original thoughts. Even if I disagree with some of his thoughts, or don't always see it the same way, it gives me the impression that he's trying to figure things out/solve the game.
Mafia is generally more inclined to sit back and hide amongst the thread sentiment, maybe they go against it occasionally (rarely) so it's not too obvious, but even when they do, it's generally not on a major point. Like, they'll go with the thread sentiment on all the immediate targets and have a more uncommon suspect down the line, if that makes sense.
Mocsta has not only consistently taken views that oppose the thread sentiment, but he's come up with a large amount of unique reasoning to support those views. Whether or not I agree with the reasons doesn't matter so much with respect to Mocsta's alignment, what matters most is if Mocsta himself agrees with the views. The impression I get is that he does.
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On June 08 2024 20:43 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious.
If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place.
And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however?
New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. Hmm. After this post I think you are biased/closed minded with this one (despite you seemingly wanting to consider other perspectives) Presuming you are town I think you should try to genuinely reset yourself and look at it from the other perspective. What?
Are you saying this because you think my statement is so incredibly unreasonable, or what?
Which part?
The first part, people ABSOLUTELY said my opening posts were off. Maybe they didn't characterize them exactly the same way but how can you say this isn't similar?
The second part, whether or not it's a mistake, is kinda irrelevant semantics. I mostly said it to be funny tbh, it just depends on what you consider a mistake to be, and it doesn't matter for the point.
The third part is imo a completely valid perspective, which I explained, but at least on this point there is room for disagreement.
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On June 08 2024 20:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:26 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 20:08 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Why do you think it’s good to talk about me when I’m clearly not a day 1 lynch? Is it not the exact same situation as alpha zero? One and a half differences. One difference: I brought legit reasons to talk about. Not random suspicions and paranoia and spookies. Half difference: not being able to figure out your alignment, especially having such a dramatically different take on it than everyone else does, is driving me insane. Your legit reasons are random spookiness to everyone else as you can see it hasn’t gained any traction. So again I ask, what’s the difference? Your main point was that alpha zero wasn’t a day 1 lynch so he shouldn’t be discussed No, no, that's not how this works. Reasons can be good or bad, random spookiness isn't a bad reason, it's no reason, it's fearmongering. I've said this like five times now. One more. I don't want to discuss someone if all of the following are true: 1. near a lynch deadline 2. the person in question is extremely unlikely to be lynched 3. there are no actual reasons presented to suspect the person. Note that this is very different from bad reasons. Once again, and for the last time, all three things have to be true. As you can see this with AlphaZero, I didn't want to discuss him when there were no reasons. As soon as Mocsta posted his reasons, I discussed it with him, and I would be happy to continue discussing based on those reasons. I don't get how this is so hard to understand? Damn 1-3 are all true for what you think about me. If 3 isn’t true then surely you can quote some posts that I made right? What the heck do you think this was?!?!!On June 08 2024 14:23 Trfel wrote:Sorry for getting frustrated earlier. I shouldn't try and play when I have company over. Again, I'm more than happy to talk about AlphaZero if anyone has any specifics to discuss. I don't want to just point fingers and suspicions for no reason, that doesn't help anyone. Either get serious and give actual reasons or wait until you have actual reasons, if discrediting people for no reason is commonly acceptable, the game becomes a mess. Maybe I'm blind but I haven't seen any substantial reasons to suspect AlphaZero posted so far.
OatsmasterShow nested quote +On June 08 2024 05:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think vivax is easily mafia here though, he’s playing super scared to make posts and has resorted to posting inane townreads Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 09:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax coming in and complaining about me is clsssic scum!vivax cmon.
The Scott stuff kinda boring, I get it but he’s not mafia These are the important posts I found in Oatsmaster's filter. The rest are mostly questions or random comments, basically things other than sharing his thoughts and pushing his reads. I realize this is subjective, so here is Oatsmaster's filter if you want to look for yourself. Honestly for having made 61 game posts, I'm pretty underwhelmed. He's had plenty of opportunity, and all he's come up with is this weird Vivax push. I'd like to break down his reasons for suspecting/pushing Vivax. 1. Vivax is scared to post (I'll reinterpret this as Vivax not being very active, it's hard for me to understand how you can interpret a lack of activity as mafia being scared to post) 2. Vivax has made silly townreads without reasoning to back them up 3. Vivax isn't constantly seeing shadows (I think this means he isn't being tinfoil-y?) 4. This post from Vivax is a classic mafia post: Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:20 Vivax wrote:On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? AZ calls you blanket top town too and it doesn‘t bother you. Doesn‘t surprise me you‘d miss that detail, so it‘s meh. Honestly I don't think these reasons are very good at all. 1. Vivax isn't very active. I don't think low activity means someone is mafia, this is very underwhelming. 2. Vivax made silly townreads without reason. It's common for people to make early townreads with little/no reasoning, and I think this is especially common for Vivax, actually. No clue why this is supposed to be suspicious. 3. Vivax isn't tinfoily. It's 27.5 hours in, there isn't much to be tinfoily about. That tends to happen more in longer games. 4. That post comes from mafia. I think Vivax is making a valid point in the post, I don't see why it is mafia motivated. So the main thing Oatsmaster has done this game is pretty baseless. You can make tonereads or vibe reads or whatever, but the substance in Oatsmaster's play just isn't there, despite plenty of opportunity.
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On June 08 2024 20:47 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all. On June 07 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2024 19:27 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Yeah idk. The more I think about this (plus his previous post where he says he doesn't like Vivax) the more I am suspicious.
If Kelsi3r doesn't know what AlphaZero's point about scott31337 means with regards to scott31337's alignment, that should lead to there being less reason to townread AlphaZero (and also anyone else) for this reasoning, no? Of course you don't always have to agree with someone's reasoning to think it makes them look towny, but it certainly helps. Furthermore, I could understand it better if he just said that it made AlphaZero look better, since they were the first to clearly lay out that line of thinking. But to add on that rsoultin looks good, purely for agreeing, when Kelsi3r himself doesn't even know if the point means anything for scott31337's alignment? Seems out of place.
And to add, the only person he said he didn't like, Vivax, also commented on this kind of idea. Vivax didn't put scott31337's posts in contrast like AlphaZero did, but he (rightfully) pointed out that one of scott31337's posts in question didn't make a ton of sense. It wasn't exactly the same idea, but it was somewhat similar, and this was (presumably) enough to make AlphaZero say that Vivax looks town. Kelsi3r seems to have ignored this entirely, however?
New top suspect, I think. I agree with this, the logic doesn’t track. On June 08 2024 01:18 marvellosity wrote:
I actually agreed with sand’s take on kelsier (sort of as a response to Scott here)
When I read mocstas vote on kelsier “you’re being intentionally obtuse”, I just thought well that’s a townie trait if ever I heard one So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait? Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him. Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. No no no. They did not say the same things. Commenting on your early posting is different from what/how they are commenting about. I guess even if they said different things, I interpreted the things people said to be coming from the same place/caused by the same things. Specifically, I was playing at a band concert and thus was on my phone and it was the start of the game and I was joking around and messing with people instead of actually playing the game. Eventually, I got home to my computer and there was more to talk about, and so this changed. People pointed out different things about the initial playstyle, but unless you can explain why some of those claims are more or less valid than others, I am not sure what you are getting at.
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On June 08 2024 20:20 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:06 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:01 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 19:56 Trfel wrote:
AlphaZero, honestly I get the impression you are ignoring me. Which isn't the worst thing in the world, but I would at least like to clarify if it's because you think I am mafia or because you think I am not being productive or what. Honestly I’m not ignoring you intentionally. I’m reading and considering about your posts. I don’t really agree with some of your conclusions, but I don’t want to stop you from doing your thing, or get bogged down in arguing about it. Did I miss a question you asked me? I’m just using the little time I have to follow my own lines of inquiry. Fair enough. Also if you have limited time then by all means focus on what stands out to you. If your time wasn't limited I was wondering about your Oatsmaster read, since you seem very convinced he is town and as I described, it's hard for me to see that right now. Vibe and meta. Last game he was obvious mafia.Game before that was a massive outlier. And honestly I just like his posting. I can’t point to something and prove that he is town, But it just seemed really obvious to me at some point. Obviously that’s probably not helpful for your read on oats. But I’m certainly not the only player who feels that way about oats this game, so I guess maybe you could suspend disbelief for the rest of the phase? Sorry for taking so long to get to this, I do appreciate it. Just got busy doing other things and fell behind, had to switch to my computer to catch up.
I get that more people seem to townread Oatsmaster than otherwise. Oatsmaster's meta is the main reason I'm not voting for him right now. I can drop it for a while, sure, but you ought to be careful saying stuff like that, or Oatsmaster will attack you over it
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On June 08 2024 20:57 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:51 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:47 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 20:26 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:16 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 20:08 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:05 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 19:33 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Hi trfel
.your post #715 on oats
I don't really get it
I had a read of oats filter and didn't see the same things you raised.
His filter is consistent focus and attitude/tone. He's kept prodding the same things regardless of buy in, which yes can be scummy. Yet. He's updating the read as the conviction increases which I find townie.
There was a post early game about you and Ryan that stuck out to me and made me wonder about a scum duo of rayn and oats but that's really clutching at straws and nothing I intend to pursue. Thanks for taking the time. I guess I didn't even see a ton of Oatsmaster bringing up the same things, I can try and look again though. @marvellosity, I think Mocsta is easier to read than several other players this game due to a combination of activity and unique thoughts. He's been present and involved and has been very willing to provide his own take, which often differs from that of everyone else and the thread consensus. I think this gives a lot of extra information with which we can figure out his alignment more easily. Also, someone asked about die_meatbaby's meta, I'm far from an expert but I would say her play matches my expectations close enough. That doesn't mean she is town or mafia necessarily, but this is the kind of play I was expecting. With the Vivax focus, paranoia of influential players, hesitance to commit to early reads, etc. Kinda confused about what these last 2-3 pages were about but I'm too lazy/sleepy to go to my computer and actually figure it out, oh well Too lazy to visit the links Mocsta brought up about scott31337, can someone tell me if it makes sense or not? Happy to talk about most anything, but prefer to talk about Kelsi3r or Oatsmaster. Why do you think it’s good to talk about me when I’m clearly not a day 1 lynch? Is it not the exact same situation as alpha zero? One and a half differences. One difference: I brought legit reasons to talk about. Not random suspicions and paranoia and spookies. Half difference: not being able to figure out your alignment, especially having such a dramatically different take on it than everyone else does, is driving me insane. Your legit reasons are random spookiness to everyone else as you can see it hasn’t gained any traction. So again I ask, what’s the difference? Your main point was that alpha zero wasn’t a day 1 lynch so he shouldn’t be discussed No, no, that's not how this works. Reasons can be good or bad, random spookiness isn't a bad reason, it's no reason, it's fearmongering. I've said this like five times now. One more. I don't want to discuss someone if all of the following are true: 1. near a lynch deadline 2. the person in question is extremely unlikely to be lynched 3. there are no actual reasons presented to suspect the person. Note that this is very different from bad reasons. Once again, and for the last time, all three things have to be true. As you can see this with AlphaZero, I didn't want to discuss him when there were no reasons. As soon as Mocsta posted his reasons, I discussed it with him, and I would be happy to continue discussing based on those reasons. I don't get how this is so hard to understand? Damn 1-3 are all true for what you think about me. If 3 isn’t true then surely you can quote some posts that I made right? What the heck do you think this was?!?!! On June 08 2024 14:23 Trfel wrote:Sorry for getting frustrated earlier. I shouldn't try and play when I have company over. Again, I'm more than happy to talk about AlphaZero if anyone has any specifics to discuss. I don't want to just point fingers and suspicions for no reason, that doesn't help anyone. Either get serious and give actual reasons or wait until you have actual reasons, if discrediting people for no reason is commonly acceptable, the game becomes a mess. Maybe I'm blind but I haven't seen any substantial reasons to suspect AlphaZero posted so far.
OatsmasterOn June 08 2024 00:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax mafia On June 08 2024 05:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think vivax is easily mafia here though, he’s playing super scared to make posts and has resorted to posting inane townreads On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? On June 08 2024 09:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax coming in and complaining about me is clsssic scum!vivax cmon.
The Scott stuff kinda boring, I get it but he’s not mafia These are the important posts I found in Oatsmaster's filter. The rest are mostly questions or random comments, basically things other than sharing his thoughts and pushing his reads. I realize this is subjective, so here is Oatsmaster's filter if you want to look for yourself. Honestly for having made 61 game posts, I'm pretty underwhelmed. He's had plenty of opportunity, and all he's come up with is this weird Vivax push. I'd like to break down his reasons for suspecting/pushing Vivax. 1. Vivax is scared to post (I'll reinterpret this as Vivax not being very active, it's hard for me to understand how you can interpret a lack of activity as mafia being scared to post) 2. Vivax has made silly townreads without reasoning to back them up 3. Vivax isn't constantly seeing shadows (I think this means he isn't being tinfoil-y?) 4. This post from Vivax is a classic mafia post: On June 08 2024 08:20 Vivax wrote:On June 08 2024 08:02 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 07:45 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 07:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 07:32 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 06:38 AlphaZero wrote:
Oats and Sandro are top town.
Trfel is really worrying me. On the surface is very pro town, but also playing in a clearly different way to his prior games. I don’t really like his scum reads at all. I don’t level as if he is being that proactive in getting kelsier lynched, even though he apparently strongly suspects him.
And I find his reasoning for his scumreads much weaker than his other posts. I agree with a lot of his analysis but not when it comes to finding mafia…
I think his Smurf hunting made more sense logically than his scum reads which bothers me.
I wouldn’t lynch today, but if there is an active mafia hiding it’s this guy.
Scott just looks bad to me, completely forgettable, aside from his question that has already been analysed I couldn’t tell you why exactly. His scum hunting just comes across as manufactured,
Won’t lynch Marv today.
Rso has felt town by vibe.
Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him
Rayn is being Rayn. Pretty much null.
Mocsta: looked better disengaging than when he was trying to do stuff. Don’t know what that means.
Kelsier: anyone with a strong opinion here is sus. Very null.
Rest need to post more or post more meaningful stuff. I guess I dunno what more I can do with Kelsi3r, people aren't super interested in lynching him, it is what it is. I mean I could definitely be wrong. But if he is mafia and gets through this it's not due to my lack of trying. I guess if he is town and doesn't change anything and survives that's also not due to my lack of trying But you get my point. Is your "won't lynch marvellosity" thing a town read thing or a waiting thing? It’s a “bad idea to try and lynch Marv day one thing” when he is playing the game and seems to be enjoying things. Fair, I understand that view. Not sure if I agree but I at least get it. I would definitely be very sad to lynch him, like I said, he's the funniest player so far. That's a pretty big motivator.
People seem to have strong opinions on sandroba and Vivax and I'm just not seeing it right now. (same with Oatsmaster but that's on me for being bad so I expect this, it doesn't worry me yet) Can anyone post or point me to a reasonable explanation of reading sandroba or Vivax? ? Vivax just randomly calling posts town you think is good? Also him bring afraid to post is good? Also him not constantly seeing shadows? AZ calls you blanket top town too and it doesn‘t bother you. Doesn‘t surprise me you‘d miss that detail, so it‘s meh. Honestly I don't think these reasons are very good at all. 1. Vivax isn't very active. I don't think low activity means someone is mafia, this is very underwhelming. 2. Vivax made silly townreads without reason. It's common for people to make early townreads with little/no reasoning, and I think this is especially common for Vivax, actually. No clue why this is supposed to be suspicious. 3. Vivax isn't tinfoily. It's 27.5 hours in, there isn't much to be tinfoily about. That tends to happen more in longer games. 4. That post comes from mafia. I think Vivax is making a valid point in the post, I don't see why it is mafia motivated. So the main thing Oatsmaster has done this game is pretty baseless. You can make tonereads or vibe reads or whatever, but the substance in Oatsmaster's play just isn't there, despite plenty of opportunity. You quoted my obviously good push on vivax that everyone else in the game liked congrats. What other things in my filter are underwhelming I'm going to drop this for now because AlphaZero said to. If you have an issue with this, take it up with him.
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On June 08 2024 20:59 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 20:57 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:47 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:39 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:36 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 20:34 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 20:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 08:38 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 08:10 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 04:07 Trfel wrote:
Having second thoughts about marvellosity. I think I do actually want to pursue this after all.[quote][quote]So marvellosity agreed with me that Kelsi3r's logic didn't make sense, but then still includes Kelsi3r in the "town" category because Mocsta said he was being obtuse and that's a town trait?
Reading through marvellosity's filter, I do still like that he acknowledged my point on Kelsi3r, and I like his line of questioning to Mocsta about his read change on me (Trfel). But he hasn't done really anything else of substance? It looks like his top suspects are scott31337 and Mocsta, and other than putting scott31337 at the bottom of his list post, he hasn't even mentioned him.
Just feels uncharacteristically disjointed. I don't get the impression that he is looking for mafia, and I don't get the impression that he cares enough about his (few) thoughts to remember them later. I can talk about this. I bought into what sand was selling me. So that’s why Scott and kelsier were where they were. Mocsta I was/am suspicious of, still primarily because I think he was making it up when he talked about the posts you made. aawwwwww Mate. I probably shouldn't have posted my first post Game started at 10 for me and earliest chance I had to read was 4 sitting on plane In short hectic mad day and I was so excited to make intro post for first time.in maybe 6years.. I see the length of the game and was like wtf I dont have time.to do this before take.off and lose reception. Quickly skim and rsoultin and trfel.poats were the ones where my mind just disconnected from. Could not engage So put it out there to just have out it out there I wouldn't say the post content was forced because it's how I felt at that moment, although the sentiment that I needed to post something , yes was forced It's also part of why I retracted once I landed and read thoroughly This is his explanation for the stuff I picked up on with regards to your early posting. I understand that people make mistakes (especially early) but do I buy this? Is it the right sort of mistake? Is it the sort of mistake town makes? It’s not carelessness, it’s a characterisation of your posts as forced/contrived. It’s difficult tbh. Hmm, honestly I didn't view this as a mistake. Maybe that's my error. But a lot of people expressed a similar sentiment regarding my early posting, unless I am missing something I don't think his claim itself was unreasonable at all. There is the part where he wasn't able to back it up with evidence upon request. It's a little strange, heck I bet I could go into my filter and fabricate the explanation in question, but I actually think it's maybe more likely to come from town. Possibilities: - Mocsta is town, and due to a few combined factors (plane flight/setting change, me posting more and him getting a more meaningful read on me which quite possibly colors his perception of previous posts), didn't read the earlier posts the same way - Mocsta is mafia, and instead of forcing an explanation, gave it up. Like, if it was me and I was mafia there, I'm 10000% giving a forced explanation there, even if I can't remember what I was initially thinking I'm gonna make something up. I would never back down there. Maybe Mocsta is just a different player from me but I don't actually see the mafia motivation for this? The claim is too vague and easy to provide fake reasoning for, honestly if he's mafia I think he took a much harder route by backing down from it. He’s admitting it as a mistake Trfel lol. Wtf? To the bolded: who exactly? Raynpelikoneet, rsoultin, sandroba, maybe even AlphaZero? And sure, Mocsta said it was a mistake, but I disagree I think it's more likely that his perspective changed, causing him to interpret the same posts in a different way. I mean if you want to call that a mistake then sure, I wouldn't say that though. No no no. They did not say the same things. Commenting on your early posting is different from what/how they are commenting about. I guess even if they said different things, I interpreted the things people said to be coming from the same place/caused by the same things. Specifically, I was playing at a band concert and thus was on my phone and it was the start of the game and I was joking around and messing with people instead of actually playing the game. Eventually, I got home to my computer and there was more to talk about, and so this changed. People pointed out different things about the initial playstyle, but unless you can explain why some of those claims are more or less valid than others, I am not sure what you are getting at. Even taking Mocsta out of the equation for a moment and talking generally I dont grasp how you don’t understand the devil is in the detail? It matters in what way it is off, because it’s a mindset thing. Sure? I think it depends on the situation though, no? Like it's possible that there are things in the details that are off and maybe it means something, and it's possible that there aren't?
I'm sorry I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I just don't actually understand what you are getting at.On June 07 2024 17:05 Mocsta wrote:
Have skim read. Trfel stood out to me as sentiment over a few posts felt forced / overly processed. Not sure if that's his meta though. Certainly not a scum claim. Also felt a little similar with rsoultin. It seems that your point is that this post doesn't have basis?
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I don't want to lynch raynpelikoneet today anyway. He already said his activity is limited this cycle, it seems extremely stupid to come up with reasons to suspect him after he has to leave and then lynch him before he gets a chance to respond. Like, why would we do that?
If someone could please say something that makes sense, I'd really appreciate it, this past hour has driven me absolutely insane.
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On June 08 2024 21:14 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:13 Trfel wrote:
I don't want to lynch raynpelikoneet today anyway. He already said his activity is limited this cycle, it seems extremely stupid to come up with reasons to suspect him after he has to leave and then lynch him before he gets a chance to respond. Like, why would we do that?
If someone could please say something that makes sense, I'd really appreciate it, this past hour has driven me absolutely insane. To be clear, this isn’t what I was suggesting Was more talking to others than you, and also the two paragraphs weren't related, sorry if that came off more aggressively than I meant.
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On June 08 2024 21:16 AlphaZero wrote:
I want to lynch Scott unless he comes back and shits town flavored rainbows. 🌈
That make sense trfel?? Yes and no, I understand that this is your perspective, but I disagree that doing so makes sense
In my opinion this is the towniest game I've ever seen scott31337 play. I'm just not very inclined to lynch him in it tbh.
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On June 08 2024 21:20 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:18 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 21:16 AlphaZero wrote:
I want to lynch Scott unless he comes back and shits town flavored rainbows. 🌈
That make sense trfel?? Yes and no, I understand that this is your perspective, but I disagree that doing so makes sense In my opinion this is the towniest game I've ever seen scott31337 play. I'm just not very inclined to lynch him in it tbh. What do you propose then trfel? Kelsier lynch? It’s almost policy at this point. Yes, I've made it pretty clear that I want to lynch Kelsi3r. I don't think any other lynch is anywhere near as good.
I don't think it's policy at all, honestly to me it looks most like either:
1 - he got bullied out of the thread
or
2 - he got caught and lost motivation to post
Obviously I think it's the latter, though if there is reasoning for the former I am willing to reconsider.
Policy is lynching someone for activity or something like that. Kelsi3r was around, walked himself into a hole, got caught, and THEN stopped posting. Very, very different.
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If someone asks me about something I'm most likely going to respond. You're going to have to deal with it.
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On June 08 2024 21:26 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:25 Trfel wrote:
If someone asks me about something I'm most likely going to respond. You're going to have to deal with it. What’s the most disgusting sex you’ve ever had? Oh, I see.
Congratulations, you found the exception.
On June 08 2024 21:25 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 21:24 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 21:20 AlphaZero wrote:On June 08 2024 21:18 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 21:16 AlphaZero wrote:
I want to lynch Scott unless he comes back and shits town flavored rainbows. 🌈
That make sense trfel?? Yes and no, I understand that this is your perspective, but I disagree that doing so makes sense In my opinion this is the towniest game I've ever seen scott31337 play. I'm just not very inclined to lynch him in it tbh. What do you propose then trfel? Kelsier lynch? It’s almost policy at this point. Yes, I've made it pretty clear that I want to lynch Kelsi3r. I don't think any other lynch is anywhere near as good. I don't think it's policy at all, honestly to me it looks most like either: 1 - he got bullied out of the thread or 2 - he got caught and lost motivation to post Obviously I think it's the latter, though if there is reasoning for the former I am willing to reconsider. Policy is lynching someone for activity or something like that. Kelsi3r was around, walked himself into a hole, got caught, and THEN stopped posting. Very, very different. I don’t think the last part is what happened. I think it’s policy. I guess we're at a disagreement. I laid out two separate, strong reasons why Kelsi3r is likely mafia. If you don't agree then it is what it is.
I'm just going to pretend Oatsmaster doesn't exist for a while.
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On June 08 2024 21:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 11:38 Vivax wrote:On June 07 2024 20:11 Mocsta wrote:On June 07 2024 20:05 Kelsi3r wrote:On June 07 2024 20:02 Mocsta wrote:
How about why isn't rsoultin scum? Is she? Whats the case ? You have my vote now ##vote: kelsi3rFor being intentionally obtuse . This shouldn't be this hard mate Ah yes this is a vote that makes Mocsta mafia imo. Town points if you see what I see. His previous read on rsoultin was that he reverted to neutral but when he votes Kelsier it‘s because he expected him to easily see what made her scum after he stopped scumreading her. That‘s not only scummy in itself but implies also rsoultin or Kelsier as teammates if Mocsta is. But that‘s associative so meh. Uh, to be honest I don't think that's what happened?
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Starting on p10
Kelsi3r: AlphaZero has a good point about scott31337, not sure what it means about scott31337 but it makes AlphaZero and rsoultin look good
Mocsta: Asks Kelsi3r why the read on rsoultin matters with regards to AlphaZero, to be honest I don't know what this means
Kelsi3r: it's up to you why my read matters
Mocsta: you mentioned rsoultin affecting your read on AlphaZero (again idk what he is saying)
Kelsi3r: what don't you understand?
Mocsta: why isn't rsoultin mafia?
Kelsi3r: why is rsoultin mafia?
Mocsta: votes for Kelsi3r
I really don't think Mocsta is saying that rsoultin is mafia, rather, he is asking why Kelsi3r said rsoultin is towny. Huge difference.
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Sure thing. Honestly I'm surprised you are considering lynching die_meatbaby, you think she is mafia I assume?
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I guess I have a hard time matching Kelsi3r's attitude with his productiveness. If he got irritated or frustrated and left that's somewhat understandable, for some reason that's not the interpretation I have though? Maybe I am being biased here though.
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Like, he says "you need to drop this"....
If he's not going to play, why do I need to drop it, right?
"You're being obnoxious" and then afk is much more understandable.
Also accusing me of lying, right after pointing out things I did that he thought were towny, and right before leaving... Like if I am lying, then I am mafia, and he should want to get me lynched?
I just can't put together a mindset that makes it make sense. Any one thing, sure, but not the overall picture.
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On June 08 2024 22:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 22:54 Trfel wrote:
I guess I have a hard time matching Kelsi3r's attitude with his productiveness. If he got irritated or frustrated and left that's somewhat understandable, for some reason that's not the interpretation I have though? Maybe I am being biased here though. As I’ll probably have time for one more proper thing today. Earlier you said this was the towniest game of Scott’s you’d seen. Two things. Can you explain that to me further? Secondly, assuming it is true, is it possible this is the towniest game you’ve seen from him because he’s mafia? Do you see what I’m saying? For #2, I thought about that, it's maybe possible but I have no idea how I'd verify this. I don't think it's dramatically different from scott31337's other games. More like, same but better, as opposed to a major contrast.
#1 is subjective and depends on 8+ year old memory so it's very difficult to explain. But he made a list post, even if most of it was "this person is playing like they do as town so they are town" or "this person is playing like they do as mafia so they are mafia." And he actually looked at AlphaZero's filter and made a conclusion from it. That's pretty special, above the level I was expecting.
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On June 08 2024 23:06 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 23:04 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 22:58 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 22:54 Trfel wrote:
I guess I have a hard time matching Kelsi3r's attitude with his productiveness. If he got irritated or frustrated and left that's somewhat understandable, for some reason that's not the interpretation I have though? Maybe I am being biased here though. As I’ll probably have time for one more proper thing today. Earlier you said this was the towniest game of Scott’s you’d seen. Two things. Can you explain that to me further? Secondly, assuming it is true, is it possible this is the towniest game you’ve seen from him because he’s mafia? Do you see what I’m saying? For #2, I thought about that, it's maybe possible but I have no idea how I'd verify this. I don't think it's dramatically different from scott31337's other games. More like, same but better, as opposed to a major contrast. #1 is subjective and depends on 8+ year old memory so it's very difficult to explain. But he made a list post, even if most of it was "this person is playing like they do as town so they are town" or "this person is playing like they do as mafia so they are mafia." And he actually looked at AlphaZero's filter and made a conclusion from it. That's pretty special, above the level I was expecting. Playing devils advocate here. Is it above the level you were expecting because he already knows the answer? Tbh I don't follow, it's not about the conclusion, it's simply that he did it. Frankly his conclusion was not very good, but that's not the point. He actually had an idea and tried to find reasoning to prove his point.
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On June 08 2024 23:10 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 23:02 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 23:00 Trfel wrote:
Like, he says "you need to drop this"....
If he's not going to play, why do I need to drop it, right?
"You're being obnoxious" and then afk is much more understandable.
Also accusing me of lying, right after pointing out things I did that he thought were towny, and right before leaving... Like if I am lying, then I am mafia, and he should want to get me lynched?
I just can't put together a mindset that makes it make sense. Any one thing, sure, but not the overall picture. This is a fair point Still weighing this up. It’s the worst thing in his filter for sure. Eh, third worst, but oh well.
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Sorry, had some stuff going on. Will be mostly present until the deadline I think.
I note that Oatsmaster has not only antagonized me, but also now Vivax and rsoultin. I don't know what to make of this, but I really really don't like it.
I was expecting to have more thoughts but honestly I kinda don't. Whoops.
I don't have a reason to townread sandroba but I am just not convinced by the reasons to suspect him? Sorry if I'm just being bad. Like it wouldn't be the worst thing ever but it seems far from ideal to me.
If we're reaching here already, I'd like to suggest Oatsmaster or Alakaslam. Oatsmaster because he seems to be deliberately antagonizing people, Alakaslam due to the self-conscious thing at the start and overall lack of activity (which may not be a mafia indicator but maybe is worth a try anyway?). I still think Kelsi3r makes by far the most sense but if we want to do something else I can get over it for now.
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On June 08 2024 08:29 scott31337 wrote:I've read the thread but I've had a long day at work as well, so am a bit tired. I searched my name in Alpha's filter - 20 times at the moment And if you have been paying attention - keeps calling me scummy. I search for Vivax - 20 hours ago The rest is quotes from Vivax or others saying his name. A post an hour ago Vivax I think is not consistently giving me good reasons to town read him And now he votes for him. But AZ has been calling me scummy all game so far. Seems suspicious to me. @Oatsmaster, it's really not that hard to find.
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On June 09 2024 08:04 rsoultin wrote:
what makes sandy 'far from ideal' compared to another null read like slam? i'm assuming null correct me if i'm wrong I actually think the Alakaslam self conscious thing is a legit reason. Maybe it's stupid, I know it's unproven, but it's at least a theory I consider worth investigating. Also I think having more time/material with which to read sandroba would benefit me, and I can't say the same for Alakaslam.
Side note, I am kinda getting hesitant about the Kelsi3r lynch, especially seeing that Grackaroni is looking for a replacement. If something happened to Kelsi3r forcing him to replace out at the wrong time, I can see that making him look really suspicious but actually being town. But even the Kelsi3r thing with doubts seems better to me than the other options right now. Will keep thinking about it.
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I guess tbh I never understood the whole "information created by a lynch" argument. Like I think the difference is very slight at most? But I know that's maybe an uncommon perspective so it is what it is.
I mean we can talk about lynching raynpelikoneet, I guess that's fine with me as long as we don't actually do it
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Don't have much to say but I am bored so here goes anyway
I could be wrong about Kelsi3r being mafia. I just think the reasons to suspect him are the strongest of anything in the thread, regardless of activity. If I wasn't so darn awful at day 1 I'd be more confident about this, but at this point it is what it is. I've said all there is to say.
I reread my filter from last game, the Paint game, looking for posts about scott31337. There was an opening tonal thing which didn't make sense to me but I don't think it's too similar to anything this game. But during day 1 he did make a reads post with no read on Oatsmaster, and then later voted for Oatsmaster. This in itself isn't bad, but when I asked him what changed, he said that Oatsmaster hadn't posted much before, and now that he'd posted, he looked scummy. But over half of Oatsmaster's posts were made before scott31337's reads post, where he had no thoughts on Oatsmaster.
If scott31337 had said that the new posts were scummier, that's more understandable. Or that he simply hadn't paid any attention to Oatsmaster before, that's understandable. But the explanation he gave simply didn't make sense given what had happened in the thread.
But he was town. So that's kind of my hesitation, scott31337 just thinks and communicates in a very different way than I do. This makes me want to find illogical things all over the place, but I'm just not sure if that's very helpful at all here.
Frankly, the reasons for suspecting scott31337 in this game don't give me reason to think it's any different, either. Sure, on the surface the things look bad, but I don't think they're any more likely to come from a mafia mindset than town? Bad and mafia are very different things.
I mean, scott31337 is player number 4, Kelsi3r is player number 10, we could compromise and lynch player number 7, so raynpelikoneet? XD
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Ahh dang
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If scott31337 is town, I guess I don't understand why this makes rsoultin/Koshi mafia?
Imagine if the situation was reversed and we lynched scott31337 and (imagine) he flipped town, would this make AlphaZero mafia?
I'm really not understanding this.
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Vivax, unfortunately I'm not really in a position to be knowledgeable about European politics.
Got any thoughts on who is mafia? Or should I come back another time?
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On June 09 2024 13:24 Trfel wrote:
If scott31337 is town, I guess I don't understand why this makes rsoultin/Koshi mafia?
Imagine if the situation was reversed and we lynched scott31337 and (imagine) he flipped town, would this make AlphaZero mafia?
I'm really not understanding this. I guess I could maybe understand this if your view is that scott31337 is objectively way way scummier than Kelsi3r was and that this looks like it for everyone, no matter what. In that case, sure I could see rsoultin's town lean on scott31337 being TMI and AlphaZero's null read on Kelsi3r not being TMI. But that seems like a huge stretch.
Like if you see it that way that's one thing, but to insist that everyone has to? I mean I don't see it that way, so that immediately disproves it? Unless you think that I (and only I) am an idiot, which is true but this whole thing still feels like a stretch to me.
Not really thinking scott31337 is mafia. Could be wrong, part of me wonders if it's best to just let him die to the "holy" crusade, but that feels so bad.... Will try and think more about it later.
Really confused about raynpelikoneet. Is he mafia in hyper buddy mode or something? I never would have thought it possible for raynpelikoneet to go five pages without an actual scumread, regardless of alignment, and I don't know what this means? My best guess is to rely on the prior townread due to his reads being interesting, but I can't discount the possibility that he is mafia and went super buddy mode. But it's like, why would he do that when he could just play normally if he is mafia? Seems more reasonable that he somehow didn't see anything that really stuck out as scummy or worth pushing, and then wasn't available to find anything during the second half of day 1.
Still really confused by Oatsmaster. Maybe he's just town because memory says that when he's obnoxious and useless he's town, but it's really really hard for me to get past how obnoxious some of his play has been. I'm not sure if I can just let this drop. Even if maybe I should.
He's going to ask me to provide quotes and examples and I'm going to ignore him.
I think AlphaZero is unlikely to be mafia just due to the amount of investment at the lynch. Sure, he could theoretically be mafia and making all this fuss for no reason, but the key is that there'd be no reason.
Idk, marvellosity is playing the game, which usually means he is town. If it wasn't for him typically not playing the game as mafia though, would I think he is town? Maybe I just stick with the funny read/metric, it feels pretty tinfoily here to think marvellosity is mafia, I guess that ought to be good enough for now.
Honestly I'm kinda disappointed in Vivax, I was expecting some amazing insight and it ended up just being a misunderstanding Such a let down. A simple activity metric suggests that Vivax is town, but his activity isn't out of the realm of possibility as mafia, just unlikely. I'm having trouble finding anything notable in his filter (to be fair I'm just randomly opening pages and skimming which probably isn't the best method) but part of me is concerned that he seemed fine lynching Kelsi3r, seemed fine lynching scott31337, and then comes up with this?On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. Vivax wanted scott31337 lynched I assume, I mean Vivax was voting for scott31337, so why is Vivax saying this instead of looking to make sure scott31337 actually gets lynched? Even from the perspective of purely an observation and not a desire it doesn't sit right to me.
Part of me wonders if die_meatbaby is mafia? No real reason, I do feel a bit weird about her posts on not really wanting to lynch scott31337:On June 08 2024 09:42 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 09:37 Trfel wrote:On June 08 2024 09:12 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2024 09:10 Trfel wrote:Not really sure what to say. I don't know what to think of scott31337, he looks suspicious but I feel like I've mislynched him a million times and I'm not sure if this game is any different I was trying to mess with him to change something and let me get a read on him but it didn't really work. Maybe I should see if the discrepancies in his posts are mafia motivated? I guess that makes sense? Idon't think the early thing about masons/whisperers/whatever had much mafia motivation. It's clumsy, but honestly it strikes me more as clumsy than scummy.I actually kinda liked scott31337's post on AlphaZero. Not that I agree with it, but I think it's a reasonable perspective for scott31337 to have as town? I don't know why he would do this as mafia, I guess I doubt he'd have the confidence? I could definitely be wrong, but like, scott31337 brought up an original argument. That's pretty neat. Even if it's (imo) a bad argument, I'm still pleasantly surprised So yeah, I kinda don't want to lynch scott31337. Could absolutely be wrong, it's far from the worst lynch ever, but I don't find the arguments super compelling given the context.
Don't really want to lynch sandroba either unless something changes, either in his play or in my read. His play hasn't been super inspiring or anything imo, but I don't think that makes him mafia. Maybe if we keep waiting and this doesn't change I could start to see it but we haven't even been playing for 24 hours, I don't think it's reasonable to hold him to super high standards at this time. If he did something scummy that'd be different, but a lack of super towny stuff doesn't make him mafia imo.
I guess I'll just wait and hope that either people re-evaluate Kelsi3r or I'm wrong (which is pretty likely tbh, I have no idea how to find mafia on day 1 especially, my reads tend to be more accurate when flipped upside down). So maybe it's a good thing that no one agrees XD Or clumsy in a scummy way Theoretically yes, but that's not how I read it. I guess I don't put much weight in the idea that scum say little things to look like they're present without actually doing anything. Or rather, I think town ends up with similar posts pretty often, especially at the start of the game. It's just hard for me to say with any confidence that this is a scum trait. Maybe for strong town players it could be scummy, but I see this from less confident town players all the time. I also don't think that the way scott31337 posted came from a mafia motivated mindset. Like, why would scott31337 be more inclined to make that series of posts as mafia than as town? I guess I just don't get it. Don't misunderstand, I don't think scott31337's posts make any sense, but I don't think they make sense in a mafia way, more just a general illogical way. I think you are right. I was reading a few games from him mafia and town. He were making small bs in town games as well but also the games I was reading were old. He should not be a d1 vote in my opinion On June 09 2024 08:41 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 06:26 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 06:10 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 05:59 marvellosity wrote:
Inactivity of a few players is going to kill us here tbh.
D1 hard enough without missing a handful. Sorry, I'll have more time tomorrow and will play properly. Besides, I'm not so happy with both wagons. Well you still need to vote too Who would you like to lynch today in a perfect world? Tbr i would like to lynch az. Also I hate the first lynch after it it always gets easier. Most of the time lynch 1 is misslynch anway. I am stucking at work with a group of austrian mafia, good that tomorrow they are gone. Scott i don't really townread you but for now I don't want to lynch, I rather take K who is more inactiv and I think it would be a more logical lynch. I am really sorry for beeing this inactiv today. Tomorrow I will be here ##vote k It reads like it could be mafia protecting someone for now but setting up to lynch them later. Not a very good reason, unfortunately I'm running out of sensible mafia reads, so there's some POE here, as much as I hate POE. Hopefully seeing more gameplay, when die_meatbaby has more time, will clear this up, but I think this is a direction I'm inclined to at least look into.
I do think sandroba could absolutely be mafia, I don't have meaningful reasons to say he's mafia but at the same time I don't have meaningful reasons to say he's town. Maybe another area to look into?
I like Mocsta's posts but I also have trouble understanding like a third or a quarter of them so maybe I'm just being bad in liking them?
I guess I'm most interested in looking at die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, and sandroba, but it kinda feels like most people are in a similar, "meh" tier, so that isn't that helpful.
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On June 09 2024 14:27 Koshi wrote:
There is no way scott is mafia. He was one of my first townreads. (I forgot why)
rayn is obvious town and I agree with him so that is potentially odd. Mostly when we are town we disagree more. Guess that means you are mafia
In all seriousness though, raynpelikoneet not having any real scumreads doesn't bother you?
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On June 09 2024 14:36 Koshi wrote:
Ok. We can kill sandroba first.
Good stuff.
That will be easy and then you will trust me enough to go get marv and mocsta. Haha, the person playing changes but nothing really changes
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On June 09 2024 14:42 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 14:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 14:36 Koshi wrote:
Ok. We can kill sandroba first.
Good stuff.
That will be easy and then you will trust me enough to go get marv and mocsta. When you lay out this much truth you will be shot tonight. So lay it all out before you are dead. ❤ How much talk was there to not lynch you or Kelsier yesterday? Who wanted to go outside you 2? Rsoultin wanted to lynch sandroba, a few people talked about wanting to lynch AlphaZero or raynpelikoneet but nothing else gained much traction.
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On June 09 2024 14:45 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 14:43 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 14:42 Koshi wrote:On June 09 2024 14:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 14:36 Koshi wrote:
Ok. We can kill sandroba first.
Good stuff.
That will be easy and then you will trust me enough to go get marv and mocsta. When you lay out this much truth you will be shot tonight. So lay it all out before you are dead. ❤ How much talk was there to not lynch you or Kelsier yesterday? Who wanted to go outside you 2? Rsoultin wanted to lynch sandroba, a few people talked about wanting to lynch AlphaZero or raynpelikoneet but nothing else gained much traction. Jeez I replaced the only smart person. You two working together would have been too unstoppable I guess
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On June 09 2024 14:51 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 14:46 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 14:45 Koshi wrote:On June 09 2024 14:43 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 14:42 Koshi wrote:On June 09 2024 14:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 14:36 Koshi wrote:
Ok. We can kill sandroba first.
Good stuff.
That will be easy and then you will trust me enough to go get marv and mocsta. When you lay out this much truth you will be shot tonight. So lay it all out before you are dead. ❤ How much talk was there to not lynch you or Kelsier yesterday? Who wanted to go outside you 2? Rsoultin wanted to lynch sandroba, a few people talked about wanting to lynch AlphaZero or raynpelikoneet but nothing else gained much traction. Jeez I replaced the only smart person. You two working together would have been too unstoppable I guess Want to talk Mocsta? Does it feel he is a townie being lost at times and just making noise? Or what do you think? Uh....
Like I said, I have been having a hard time understanding what Mocsta is getting at probably at least a quarter of the time. Which is kind of a lot. Even when I don't agree with what he is saying, I think the angles he is taking makes him look towny, which makes me inclined to let him do his thing instead of pestering him constantly to explain what he is saying?
I just skimmed through his filter and don't really have a reason to suspect him tbh, Actually, I guess he was the person with the mini-case on AlphaZero, and then he ended up voting alongside AlphaZero on scott31337 right? It's possible that Mocsta's read on AlphaZero changed, he seems to say this happened at some points, but at a skim I can't actually find this happening though it's more likely I'm just not seeing it.
Lot of words to say I think Mocsta is more likely town? Mostly because idk what makes him mafia. But if you have reasons for him to be mafia, please go ahead.
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Idk I think I've walked myself into solving the game by POE but either POE Is terrible or I'm just awful at it (probably more the latter, though honestly I do kinda think POE is an inferior method, but whatever). I just never do anything good with POE.
Which means it's probably time to start from scratch. Ignoring reasons that might make people town, because that leads to POE, only looking at why people could be mafia.
Oatsmaster: feels like he's intentionally trying to annoy people and disrupt the game
rsoultin/Koshi: no real reason?
scott31337: Just read AlphaZero's filter I guess?
die_meatbaby: twice, die_meatbaby said that she didn't want to lynch scott31337 at this time but left the door wide open for lynching scott31337 in the future
Alakaslam: no real reason, but unlike the rsoultin/Koshi slot, this is a no real reason but kinda want to lynch (or at least push)
raynpelikoneet: no serious scumreads
sandroba: low activity/involvement, very uninspired
marvellosity: there may be something in his tension over the deadline? He seems so so unhappy with the state of the game, but also didn't really do much about it. Granted, with a ton of people not being present and with him being drunk there may not have been much to do about it, but I'm trying to come up with reasons that make people mafia, regardless of how valid they are (for now)? That said, this reason is particularly poor, there isn't a ton of need for mafia to be so unhappy with the lynch sitting solidly on a townie.. but moreso, why would mafia!marvellosity be so unhappy about town!Kelsier being lynched but also not actually do anything about it? Feels like such a stretch.
Mocsta: no real reason? Maybe that Mocsta suspected AlphaZero and then later voted scott31337 with AlphaZero, but it looks like Mocsta's read on AlphaZero changed in the meantime even though I can't find the post(s) indicating this while skimming.
Vivax: Voted for scott31337, seemingly thought scott31337 was mafia, but then posts this and this? If he didn't think scott31337 was mafia, why would he vote for him? If he did think scott31337 is mafia, why would he change his mind because Kelsi3r flipped town?
AlphaZero: really really stubborn on scott31337?
I actually think sandroba comes out looking the worst. Vivax, Alakaslam, and die_meatbaby are possible as well.
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On June 09 2024 15:03 Koshi wrote:
So marv:
1) does not call mocsta mafia in that echange and let's him go.
2) agrees with AZ mocsta is likely mafia. Those are two different topics though, right?
To me it looks like marvellosity didn't call Mocsta mafia over their initial discussion but then agreed with AlphaZero's characterization later. I guess I am not sure what you are getting at tbh?
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Looked at a bit of marvellosity's last mafia game (August 2023 or so). He managed 13 pages across 5 days, and his posting felt quite flat compared to here. Less worried.
@Koshi, tbh I don't find that particularly compelling, but feel free to do your thing.
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@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow?
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Maybe Mocsta is mafia, definitely worth considering. I might not be scared enough of his scum play. I just have a soft spot for the way he posts tbh. It's hard to really figure out his alignment because we think so differently tbh.
His willingness to switch reads and try different angles makes me think he is town, but I suppose he could fake that as mafia.
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On June 09 2024 18:04 AlphaZero wrote:
Here is the thing. His top scum read and the lynch he was pushing flipped town. And his reads didn’t change AT ALL. It was just, let’s keep lynching down my list. Which as it happens has another townie at the top.
Even for bad players that’s not a normal response as town. I dunno, man.
His vote was Kelsi3r because that was practical, but I was under the impression he wanted to lynch you (AlphaZero) and maybe even sandroba more, if he could?
Of all things to suspect scott31337 for, I don't get this one especially. His reasoning for wanting to lynch you and sandroba seems to primarily be that you two are incorrectly calling for his own lynch. Kelsi3r flipping town doesn't change that, so why would scott31337 change his reads?
Yes, it's extremely omgus, and you can rightfully question the validity of that reasoning, but I actually think scott31337 not reevaluating makes sense from his theoretical town mindset. There are a bunch of things I'd consider lynching scott31337 for before this one.
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On June 09 2024 21:53 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? I have sort of a… privileged? view of Koshi in that I’ve played with him a million times and I sort of know what he should or shouldn’t be thinking if that makes sense. It’s hard to externalise this for others though, but I think you can see what I’m getting at by the posts I’ve directed at him this phase. By contrast, the triumvirate in the middle (moc, Scott, DMB) I find it extremely difficult to walk in their shoes which makes them very challenging for me Oh, I also think that some (a decent amount really) of Koshi's reasoning seems far-fetched, at least to me. My take is that Koshi actually believes it though? It's just very hard for me to say that someone can't possibly believe what they say they believe, I think that argument requires you to know someone really really well, and unless you really know what you are doing, you're far more likely to be wrong.
For example, I think that argument (this person should know better) was useful for catching mafia!raynpelikoneet a few games back, after he hard defended mafia!die_meatbaby and gave himself away in doing so. But that's a special case because I know raynpelikoneet was a strong player and he went to extreme lengths trying to keep die_meatbaby alive. Maybe you can make judgements like that about Koshi, I certainly am not capable of it.
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On June 09 2024 21:54 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 21:42 Trfel wrote:
Maybe Mocsta is mafia, definitely worth considering. I might not be scared enough of his scum play. I just have a soft spot for the way he posts tbh. It's hard to really figure out his alignment because we think so differently tbh.
His willingness to switch reads and try different angles makes me think he is town, but I suppose he could fake that as mafia. I’m glad we can at least have a conversation about it at some stage. Although that’s making some nk assumptions xD I mean we can talk about it now? xD
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On June 09 2024 22:02 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:01 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 21:53 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? I have sort of a… privileged? view of Koshi in that I’ve played with him a million times and I sort of know what he should or shouldn’t be thinking if that makes sense. It’s hard to externalise this for others though, but I think you can see what I’m getting at by the posts I’ve directed at him this phase. By contrast, the triumvirate in the middle (moc, Scott, DMB) I find it extremely difficult to walk in their shoes which makes them very challenging for me Oh, I also think that some (a decent amount really) of Koshi's reasoning seems far-fetched, at least to me. My take is that Koshi actually believes it though? It's just very hard for me to say that someone can't possibly believe what they say they believe, I think that argument requires you to know someone really really well, and unless you really know what you are doing, you're far more likely to be wrong. For example, I think that argument (this person should know better) was useful for catching mafia!raynpelikoneet a few games back, after he hard defended mafia!die_meatbaby and gave himself away in doing so. But that's a special case because I know raynpelikoneet was a strong player and he went to extreme lengths trying to keep die_meatbaby alive. Maybe you can make judgements like that about Koshi, I certainly am not capable of it. Yes, that’s fair. I do think I can make judgments like that about Koshi is the net of it Sure, I'm not really in a place to verify those arguments is all.
I do think that's potentially the most commonly wrong type of argument people make, but that also makes sense due to how easy it is to misapply, and you're not an idiot so theoretically you should be fine
My take on the slot was that rsoultin came off as town, grain of salt because I've missed her as mafia many, many times before, and I like that Koshi suspects sandroba because I think that's a good place to be (though the second part is unflipped association so that's probably stupid). Maybe Koshi is mafia because he isn't doing the whole "I'm bad at playing as mafia so I need to play bad to make my town game match my mafia game" thing? It would be pretty hilarious and awesome to get him for that, to be fair.
And yeah, I had been thinking of looking at previous Mocsta stuff, that's been overdue for me anyway.
On June 09 2024 21:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 21:42 Trfel wrote:
Maybe Mocsta is mafia, definitely worth considering. I might not be scared enough of his scum play. I just have a soft spot for the way he posts tbh. It's hard to really figure out his alignment because we think so differently tbh.
His willingness to switch reads and try different angles makes me think he is town, but I suppose he could fake that as mafia. oh my dude.. I probably thought we saw the game so closest. *Shrug* both our positions could be true Separately The stuff about could a town dmb be aware of tvt 1. From filter only reason I could imagine a kelsier vote is to sheep rsoultin whom dmb seems to town read. But vote is based on being a policy "inactiv" lunch when town read. Super scummy. 2. Why is vivax missing throughout filter whilst highlighted as critical focus at start 3. If Scott was scummy for setup talk, dmb is no different with a fair portion of filter focused on Scott history literally summarised as 'does small bs as town'; and other parts is az speculation 4. Dmb / rsoultin interactions to me.do.not look like mafia/mafia. Shame as koshi has been annoying and I'm liking dmb as mafia. I wasn't talking about our conclusions, moreso the reasoning you take to get there is a bit different from mine? Absolutely not a bad thing, in fact I think it's a good thing, just makes things complicated sometimes.
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On June 09 2024 22:14 marvellosity wrote:
Stop with the compliments already x Dang, if not being an idiot is a compliment, you must not have as big of an ego as I thought
If anyone has a moment, curious if my perspective on scott31337 not re-evaluating his reads makes sense to anyone else? While it makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm wrong about this, it would be good to figure that out.
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On June 09 2024 22:21 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:17 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:14 marvellosity wrote:
Stop with the compliments already x Dang, if not being an idiot is a compliment, you must not have as big of an ego as I thought If anyone has a moment, curious if my perspective on scott31337 not re-evaluating his reads makes sense to anyone else? While it makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm wrong about this, it would be good to figure that out. I’m struggling to make much of it either way? Hm.... I was thinking people would either strongly agree or disagree, how can you be stuck in the middle?
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On June 09 2024 22:24 AlphaZero wrote:
mav what is the liklihood of trfel being mafia in your opinion? I know self meta is stupid but of all the games for me to be mafia in, why the one where I stopped following my post count limits?
Like if you have an actual reason for me being mafia, other than just because I pushed something opposite to how you view the game, I'm quite curious.
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On June 09 2024 22:25 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:23 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:21 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 22:17 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:14 marvellosity wrote:
Stop with the compliments already x Dang, if not being an idiot is a compliment, you must not have as big of an ego as I thought If anyone has a moment, curious if my perspective on scott31337 not re-evaluating his reads makes sense to anyone else? While it makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm wrong about this, it would be good to figure that out. I’m struggling to make much of it either way? Hm.... I was thinking people would either strongly agree or disagree, how can you be stuck in the middle? I don’t know how to answer this without being circular Could he still hold those reads as town? Yes I think so Could he be mafia sticking with the same reads? Yes why not Am I missing something fundamental? Oh, sure. I didn't mean to say that it makes scott31337 town, my point is that if you were to construct a town mindset for scott31337's play, sticking to his reads is very natural imo. And thus I don't think it's a good reason to suspect him.
Basically the conclusion is "this argument isn't very good" instead of "this makes scott31337 town."
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On June 09 2024 22:26 AlphaZero wrote:
I don't understand the trfel hard defense of scott at all.
He is not able to get a town read that strong, its really off-putting. I mean I do feel kinda bad because the dude can't adequately defend himself, which makes me feel like someone ought to?
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On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it.
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On June 09 2024 22:53 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:28 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 AlphaZero wrote:
mav what is the liklihood of trfel being mafia in your opinion? Low He just seems incredibly interested and thinking about the game a lot. And from different perspectives too.
If Trfel is mafia he’s pocketed me completely He is not really doing this beyond face value. He still wanted to lynch kels and save scott, despite good reasons to not want that. I dont believe he was around The only active person was rsoultin who would not vote Scott iirc Not really a valid argument because I wouldn't really have changed my mind if I was around though.
Side note, Mocsta, do you happen to remember if we've played together before? I think we played together once (and then apparently also End of the World Party Mafia but that doesn't really count), but I could be wrong.
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On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy She said she wouldn't lynch scott31337 at this time but left the door wide, wide open for doing so in the future. So I wouldn't consider that a deterrent for future lynches.
Yes, I agree that die_meatbaby could definitely be mafia.On June 08 2024 10:01 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 09:57 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:46 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Source on the mafia meta read? Are you looking for the weakest players again like in your last mafia game? I’d go after you no? Why would I go after vivax? Answer the question please I just wanted to remind you you cannot make the same bs twice On June 08 2024 10:19 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 10:13 rsoultin wrote:
i mean the having icky vibes off az i can identify with but maybe your time would be better spent catching up if you're just throwing shade at oats because he was pushing you as mafia in an earlier game I am not pushing him as mafia(atm). i just wanted to remind him that some things should not be done twice Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but these posts are at least worth looking into? Why would die_meatbaby, as town, warn someone not to do something that would give them away as mafia?
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On June 09 2024 23:03 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 22:57 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:53 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:28 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 AlphaZero wrote:
mav what is the liklihood of trfel being mafia in your opinion? Low He just seems incredibly interested and thinking about the game a lot. And from different perspectives too.
If Trfel is mafia he’s pocketed me completely He is not really doing this beyond face value. He still wanted to lynch kels and save scott, despite good reasons to not want that. I dont believe he was around The only active person was rsoultin who would not vote Scott iirc Not really a valid argument because I wouldn't really have changed my mind if I was around though. Side note, Mocsta, do you happen to remember if we've played together before? I think we played together once (and then apparently also End of the World Party Mafia but that doesn't really count), but I could be wrong. I'm.certain we have Probably similar outcome to this game. Town/town and you were fleeting in/out with me iirc There's something very specific I remember. I was playing with someone for (I think) the first time we played together, and they were very impressed with my analysis, and then I sheeped rsoultin on a toneread of someone and the other person flipped out and instantly hard scumread me because they couldn't possibly imagine that the same person who could provide such detailed analysis would be swayed by a simple no-analysis tone read.On June 08 2024 15:42 Mocsta wrote:trfel for the record, the playstyle itself is neutral, i was explaining what i meant by withhold. az started strong so i could also be guilty of holding az to a higher expectation; yet i reckon rest of filter is a mess (with a reluctant admission that there is some good stuff too).. like in my mind, if i removed the red flag posts out of his filter, it would be quite consistent actually so im slowly slowly reducing my expectation of az to betaone again a reason why im not going balls to the wall i still need to re look into scotts filter. will bbl Looks actually quite similar to the thought process displayed here, which is why I bring it up. If my memory is incorrect then please disregard
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On June 09 2024 23:07 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 23:03 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:57 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:53 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:28 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 AlphaZero wrote:
mav what is the liklihood of trfel being mafia in your opinion? Low He just seems incredibly interested and thinking about the game a lot. And from different perspectives too.
If Trfel is mafia he’s pocketed me completely He is not really doing this beyond face value. He still wanted to lynch kels and save scott, despite good reasons to not want that. I dont believe he was around The only active person was rsoultin who would not vote Scott iirc Not really a valid argument because I wouldn't really have changed my mind if I was around though. Side note, Mocsta, do you happen to remember if we've played together before? I think we played together once (and then apparently also End of the World Party Mafia but that doesn't really count), but I could be wrong. I'm.certain we have Probably similar outcome to this game. Town/town and you were fleeting in/out with me iirc There's something very specific I remember. I was playing with someone for (I think) the first time we played together, and they were very impressed with my analysis, and then I sheeped rsoultin on a toneread of someone and the other person flipped out and instantly hard scumread me because they couldn't possibly imagine that the same person who could provide such detailed analysis would be swayed by a simple no-analysis tone read. Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 15:42 Mocsta wrote:trfel for the record, the playstyle itself is neutral, i was explaining what i meant by withhold. az started strong so i could also be guilty of holding az to a higher expectation; yet i reckon rest of filter is a mess (with a reluctant admission that there is some good stuff too).. like in my mind, if i removed the red flag posts out of his filter, it would be quite consistent actually so im slowly slowly reducing my expectation of az to betaone again a reason why im not going balls to the wall i still need to re look into scotts filter. will bbl Looks actually quite similar to the thought process displayed here, which is why I bring it up. If my memory is incorrect then please disregard Okay so I can't find it, never mind I guess.
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On June 09 2024 23:22 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 23:07 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:03 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:57 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:53 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:28 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 22:27 marvellosity wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 AlphaZero wrote:
mav what is the liklihood of trfel being mafia in your opinion? Low He just seems incredibly interested and thinking about the game a lot. And from different perspectives too.
If Trfel is mafia he’s pocketed me completely He is not really doing this beyond face value. He still wanted to lynch kels and save scott, despite good reasons to not want that. I dont believe he was around The only active person was rsoultin who would not vote Scott iirc Not really a valid argument because I wouldn't really have changed my mind if I was around though. Side note, Mocsta, do you happen to remember if we've played together before? I think we played together once (and then apparently also End of the World Party Mafia but that doesn't really count), but I could be wrong. I'm.certain we have Probably similar outcome to this game. Town/town and you were fleeting in/out with me iirc There's something very specific I remember. I was playing with someone for (I think) the first time we played together, and they were very impressed with my analysis, and then I sheeped rsoultin on a toneread of someone and the other person flipped out and instantly hard scumread me because they couldn't possibly imagine that the same person who could provide such detailed analysis would be swayed by a simple no-analysis tone read. On June 08 2024 15:42 Mocsta wrote:trfel for the record, the playstyle itself is neutral, i was explaining what i meant by withhold. az started strong so i could also be guilty of holding az to a higher expectation; yet i reckon rest of filter is a mess (with a reluctant admission that there is some good stuff too).. like in my mind, if i removed the red flag posts out of his filter, it would be quite consistent actually so im slowly slowly reducing my expectation of az to betaone again a reason why im not going balls to the wall i still need to re look into scotts filter. will bbl Looks actually quite similar to the thought process displayed here, which is why I bring it up. If my memory is incorrect then please disregard I think disregard I may have confused you.with tictock.for synergy I went through my last set of games and we played together town/town in vendee mafia Some.of.the.dialogue is.fuckn on point to this game. Made me chuckle. It's literally you saying. I don't get what you mean but it's town. Lol Yeah, I noted that the Vendee Globe mafia game was the one town/town intersection where I didn't die on day 1, but I didn't see what I remembered.
At least I'm consistent I suppose?
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On June 09 2024 23:25 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 23:14 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 23:02 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy She said she wouldn't lynch scott31337 at this time but left the door wide, wide open for doing so in the future. So I wouldn't consider that a deterrent for future lynches. Yes, I agree that die_meatbaby could definitely be mafia. On June 08 2024 10:01 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:57 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:46 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Source on the mafia meta read? Are you looking for the weakest players again like in your last mafia game? I’d go after you no? Why would I go after vivax? Answer the question please I just wanted to remind you you cannot make the same bs twice On June 08 2024 10:19 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 10:13 rsoultin wrote:
i mean the having icky vibes off az i can identify with but maybe your time would be better spent catching up if you're just throwing shade at oats because he was pushing you as mafia in an earlier game I am not pushing him as mafia(atm). i just wanted to remind him that some things should not be done twice Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but these posts are at least worth looking into? Why would die_meatbaby, as town, warn someone not to do something that would give them away as mafia? Because that’s who she is lol nah post is slightly out of context She's saying mafia!oats tunneled town!dmb as a weak/easy lunch It's clarified with rsoultin Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 09:57 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:52 rsoultin wrote:On June 08 2024 09:46 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Source on the mafia meta read? Are you looking for the weakest players again like in your last mafia game? do you feel vivax is one of the weakest players in this game? this is a genuine question because i wouldn't normally consider him a weak player in a vacuum, at least as town No not at all. V already played a lot of mafia games on many different websides and some of that are really good. It´s just my thing that I am always try to read him first. A nd this was more like a general question to oats, because in his last game (mafia Oats) just posted kill dmb. vote dmb. scum dmb... and he came almost through with this bs on just hitting on the weak players, newbe or how ever you want to call me Unless I'm misunderstanding Oatsmaster that doesn't contradict what he is saying?On June 09 2024 20:59 marvellosity wrote:
In town-DMB world, I feel quite strongly that she has an aversion to lynching ‘lynch baity’ players, because I think she sees herself in that position and doesn’t like it happening to others like her.
It’s what makes it really tricky to figure out the motivations behind it Like if you take marvellosity's view here to be true, I could see it making sense, where die_meatbaby is so focused on not going for easy lynches that she's willing to go out of her way to warn someone not to do that, even if them doing so would actually benefit her.
If that makes sense?
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I get what you guys are saying but personally I'd rather wait?
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On June 09 2024 23:38 Trfel wrote:
I get what you guys are saying but personally I'd rather wait? AlphaZero's going to bite my head off for saying this, isn't he.
Whoops.
Too late to take it back though. Just trust me.
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Mocsta
Starts out by voting for Kelsi3r. I think this is valid, Koshi and AlphaZero probably disagree, whatever (shrug)
Mocsta then says that AlphaZero is his top scum read (#703 if you care). But he doesn't explain why for almost two hours? On one hand I get it, since AlphaZero wasn't super likely to be lynched, on the other hand this is fairly early day 1, and he claims to have (and later posts) serious reasoning? (#719, #727) Don't think this makes him mafia, but it's interesting at least.
Mocsta's suspicions of die_meatbaby (here) feel a bit off, nothing too special but I slightly disagree with his characterization of die_meatbaby's play, when combined with withholding conclusion to ask about meta and to see how die_meatbaby responds to AlphaZero voting for Vivax, the whole thing just makes me feel a little weird? Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, idk.
Finished Mocsta's filter, honestly it seems mostly fine to me? Not a lot sticks out in a scummy way. I'm starting to get tired so maybe that's just me not being observant?
Skimmed marvellosity's filter for Mocsta stuff, per request. There's Mocsta's "mistake" early on, and there's AlphaZero's characterization that Mocsta is fabricating his reads. It really just looks like those things right? I don't find them terribly compelling. I also agree that Mocsta's play looked rather town motivated towards the end of Day 1. Or at least, not mafia motivated.
In the end I think Mocsta is a solid townread and I don't see much reason to call him mafia.
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On June 09 2024 23:50 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 23:32 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 23:30 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy I try and i will even try more as soon as the people here getting activ. How the fuck should i find out who the fuck is mafia if half of the people not playing where is slam, sandro, rayn,..... guys come on pls write something here. This is just mafia yes? She has an entire day she hasn’t read and she is coming in here complaining about 3 players outta the 11 remaining not posting, curiously the same complaint as az and marv I am sorry that I wasn't playing yesterday because of work. I need some sleep and I will start as soon as the night is over. It's not smart to post lists or opinions on who is what in the night... The bolded claim above is generally considered untrue, especially by stronger players. I think you'd be much, much, MUCH better off sharing your thoughts now as opposed to waiting.
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On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still?
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On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. Which post? To clarify
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On June 10 2024 00:38 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. This one You confuse me greatly. I don't mean to be obtuse but why does this make scott31337 mafia? I honestly have no clue what you might be getting at.
Also, scott31337, you don't have to defend me That goes the other way around (except not anymore because it was making AlphaZero mad but whatever)
Have to say, watching raynpelikoneet and marvellosity argue was kinda funny (at least for a bit, then it got boring fast, but oh well).
I do find it weird that raynpelikoneet is coming in swinging with full confidence having not read over half of the game? Sure, lots of the parts he didn't read were repetitive and boring, but how is he to know that?On June 10 2024 03:34 AlphaZero wrote:
This is mafia claim number 3 from Scott. In case you all were not aware.
Just to be clear, the reason is that scott31337 didn't want to post his reasoning because it could make him the night kill?
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Gotcha, thanks AlphaZero, just wanted to make sure I am looking at the same thing as you.
@raynpelikoneet, nothing was confusing or unclear, I'm not sure what you mean? I said it was funny and I said that it was surprising, that's different from confusing or unclear?
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@Raynpelikoneet, I think without reading that portion of the thread, especially the last 10 pages before the deadline, it's tough to understand. So many people weren't present that nothing was going to happen. I wouldn't attribute it to AlphaZero and marvellosity at all, there's simply no convincing someone who isn't there to hear you.
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I think die_meatbaby is looking pretty bad, I was going to not say anything and wait for a more slam-dunk case before risking a reaction but if she's going to not say anything, I'm going to get impatient. Absolutely need to consider lynching die_meatbaby tomorrow.
I think Vivax is starting to look worse and worse. The defense of die_meatbaby is quite poor, and I absolutely think they can be mafia together here. That said, tbh I don't respect the reads they have on each other in general, but that's a different story
But Vivax saying he thinks scott31337 is mafia and then says stuff like this and this and this and this. Doesn't make sense. If Vivax thinks scott31337 is mafia then he should be working to get scott31337 lynched, not preparing for him to not get lynched or saying what scott31337 being town means?
Also definitely need to consider lynching Vivax tomorrow.
Honestly, die_meatbaby, Vivax, and sandroba come across as way more suspicious than everyone else.
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On June 10 2024 04:07 Vivax wrote:
Ok Trfel might be mafia that post was terrible Good luck
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On June 10 2024 04:23 Vivax wrote:
He has a 10 page filter tho.
Gah I think I should just focus on scott.
I wanna see how AZ intends to get him launched tho Nooo, it was just about to get good
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Vivax
Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r:On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337:On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this?On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch.
Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead?
It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all:On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate.
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I was really hoping that Vivax would go after me more and give himself away but unfortunately he backed down
Does anyone have a reason that Vivax might not be mafia? Because I don't really have reservations tbh, besides potentially activity level.
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On June 10 2024 05:07 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:Vivax+ Show Spoiler +Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. What is the core of your case? You believe town!Vivax should be trying to convince the thread to lynch scott more because his mindset is that scott is sure mafia? The fact Vivax is not doing that makes you think that this is mafia!Vivax faking reads. Because some of the quotes from your previous case felt like it was just Vivax bantering and being at worst apathic about towns capabilities based on previous games and stuff. Vivax's play doesn't make sense from a theoretical town mindset. As in, I can't put together a mindset that is congruent with Vivax's posting.
If Vivax is down on town's capabilities or chances, that's fine. In fact, that would make sense. See how AlphaZero and marvellosity were so frustrated after scott31337 didn't get lynched? They've only recently stopped complaining about it!
Quote by quote:
1. It's semi-understandable for Vivax to say that scott31337 isn't going to be lynched day 2 and isn't going to be shot by a vigilante. I mean I disagree but whatever. But then Vivax adds "doesn't have to be a bad thing." How is keeping someone alive that he is confident is mafia not a bad thing? The only possible way I could see this not being a disaster is if town manages to find and lynch other mafia... the same town that Vivax isn't happy with performance-wise, right? How does it make sense for Vivax as town to be disappointed in town's performance but also seemingly okay with letting mafia!scott31337 walk free?
2. Why would Vivax recommend looking at people who are thinking scott31337 is more scummy after the flip? The only people who might think this are the people who are trying to lynch scott31337, or at least are thinking scott31337 is mafia.... just like Vivax? So the people who are trying to lynch Vivax's strong scumread?
3. Why does Vivax care what town!scott31337's existence means to a mafia team? He thinks scott31337 is mafia!
4. Vivax says it wouldn't make much sense to not lynch scott31337 because "the majority decided to spare him." I think that's a pretty bad argument, but even if Vivax doesn't, is that argument more compelling than his desire to lynch obviously mafia scott31337? Apparently it is.
Basically, Vivax's posts don't make sense. If Vivax is town, scumreading scott31337, there is no way he should be making those posts.
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On June 10 2024 05:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why are you not scumreading me Trfel? I'm just not sure if you are mafia? No real opinion yet tbh.
Should I have a more solid opinion?
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I mean honestly there are no reasons to think either of you are town
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@Scott31337, can I ask about this part of your case in particular?Here he casts more doubt - I lynched my top scumread and that flipped town, so let's go for my #2 scumread!
Now from AZ's perspective if he's mafia (and I still believe he is) he would consider his scrumreads town (Unless they are terrible). Sandroba is a good example. I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here. Particularly the second sentence.
The rest of the case I think I see what you're trying to say, but you lost me here.
On June 10 2024 05:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 05:47 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 05:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why are you not scumreading me Trfel? I'm just not sure if you are mafia? No real opinion yet tbh. Should I have a more solid opinion? maybe, i'd like to think you would. I mean you were gone for quite a while and I haven't had a moment to think clearly about you since you came back... Maybe I'll have more of an opinion once I can look at things more closely.
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Honestly my first impression is that Vivax and die_meatbaby are trying to distance from each other.
Could be that just one of them is mafia, or I guess maybe that neither is mafia, but I think both could also be mafia. I have reason to think they both (individually, separately) could be mafia, and very little reason to think otherwise.
Just seems like the most plausible explanation is one (or even both) of them decided to try and clutter the thread to defend themselves/distract from the actual arguments against them.
@raynpelikoneet, I disagree that sandroba's posting was great when he was here. It was.... okay at best imo? But I don't think there's anything special about it. That doesn't mean he has to be mafia, but a lack of interesting or insightful thoughts, combined with nonexistent activity/involvement, is a reasonable case.
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On June 10 2024 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 07:55 Trfel wrote:
Honestly my first impression is that Vivax and die_meatbaby are trying to distance from each other.
Could be that just one of them is mafia, or I guess maybe that neither is mafia, but I think both could also be mafia. I have reason to think they both (individually, separately) could be mafia, and very little reason to think otherwise.
Just seems like the most plausible explanation is one (or even both) of them decided to try and clutter the thread to defend themselves/distract from the actual arguments against them. i literally adviced them to do so, if you didnt catch that? Why are you making this argument? If you have to blame anyone, blame me for their "show"... Show nested quote +@raynpelikoneet, I disagree that sandroba's posting was great when he was here. It was.... okay at best imo? But I don't think there's anything special about it. That doesn't mean he has to be mafia, but a lack of interesting or insightful thoughts, combined with nonexistent activity/involvement, is a reasonable case. i didn't say great. and i can't say he looks townie now when not posting. noone can. If you think sandroba is mafia, go ahead. I am just talking about what i know when people were posting. What?
Maybe I phrased it poorly. What I meant was, it seems like they are both mafia, and realized that they're associating too closely and "fought" to try and change that. I know that's unflipped association, but it was my first thought.*
If you really want to say that they did this due to your advice, I mean sure, I can lynch you after them
*Asterisk means: as I thought about it more, I still think that the argument makes sense if only one of them is mafia, baiting the other one into the argument but overall accomplishing the purpose of cluttering the thread and distracting from the actual arguments at hand.
Didn't you say sandroba's posting looked good or towny or something more positive? I forget the exact word. I wouldn't really attribute anything positive to it though, it felt solidly meh/null range. I was just bring it up since I think sandroba is very much worth considering, and you and marvellosity are the ones I think might benefit from reconsidering it.
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On June 10 2024 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax/DMB is argument is really bad looking for Trfel tbh. I'm very confused by this, I provide reasons to suspect them, then they clutter up the thread with nonsense, after which you say it makes me look bad?
How does it make me look bad when my suspects are acting anti-town?
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On June 10 2024 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:05 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax/DMB is argument is really bad looking for Trfel tbh. I'm very confused by this, I provide reasons to suspect them, then they clutter up the thread with nonsense, after which you say it makes me look bad? How does it make me look bad when my suspects are acting anti-town? I literally made them to clutter up the thread. How can you make that about them, just because "they did that"? I didnt see anything that makes either of them mafia, i thought it was tvt. Did you? I mean you did encourage them, but it's still their choice, no?
I don't like trying to characterize arguments as TvT or whatever, I think it's very difficult to do accurately with little reward.
Maybe a better approach is this:
Ignore the whole argument thing, it's hard to make sense of and it doesn't matter. There are reasons to suspect both Vivax and die_meatbaby individually that I think are well worth exploring, and I would like to go back to discussing those reasons. I'm not sure both are mafia, or even that one is, but they're both in my top suspects, so I would like to focus on that please.
In addition to the aforementioned reasons for Vivax, he's posted a lot, but I find his posts very uninspiring. I don't think there is anything he said that's particularly insightful, or anything he did that is particularly interesting. And he's had plenty of opportunity to do so. This is very subjective, so if you disagree that's fine, but I'd at least like a bit of evidence to back it up. Like, there are several, separate compelling reasons to lynch Vivax, I am not going to just let this slide.
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On June 10 2024 08:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 08:05 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax/DMB is argument is really bad looking for Trfel tbh. I'm very confused by this, I provide reasons to suspect them, then they clutter up the thread with nonsense, after which you say it makes me look bad? How does it make me look bad when my suspects are acting anti-town? I literally made them to clutter up the thread. How can you make that about them, just because "they did that"? I didnt see anything that makes either of them mafia, i thought it was tvt. Did you? I mean you did encourage them, but it's still their choice, no? I don't like trying to characterize arguments as TvT or whatever, I think it's very difficult to do accurately with little reward. Maybe a better approach is this: Ignore the whole argument thing, it's hard to make sense of and it doesn't matter. There are reasons to suspect both Vivax and die_meatbaby individually that I think are well worth exploring, and I would like to go back to discussing those reasons. I'm not sure both are mafia, or even that one is, but they're both in my top suspects, so I would like to focus on that please. In addition to the aforementioned reasons for Vivax, he's posted a lot, but I find his posts very uninspiring. I don't think there is anything he said that's particularly insightful, or anything he did that is particularly interesting. And he's had plenty of opportunity to do so. This is very subjective, so if you disagree that's fine, but I'd at least like a bit of evidence to back it up. Like, there are several, separate compelling reasons to lynch Vivax, I am not going to just let this slide. okay, and what about DMB? Don't have any super amazing reasons, but die_meatbaby also hasn't done anything that makes me think she is town.On June 09 2024 23:02 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy She said she wouldn't lynch scott31337 at this time but left the door wide, wide open for doing so in the future. So I wouldn't consider that a deterrent for future lynches. Yes, I agree that die_meatbaby could definitely be mafia. Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 10:01 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:57 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:46 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Source on the mafia meta read? Are you looking for the weakest players again like in your last mafia game? I’d go after you no? Why would I go after vivax? Answer the question please I just wanted to remind you you cannot make the same bs twice Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 10:19 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 10:13 rsoultin wrote:
i mean the having icky vibes off az i can identify with but maybe your time would be better spent catching up if you're just throwing shade at oats because he was pushing you as mafia in an earlier game I am not pushing him as mafia(atm). i just wanted to remind him that some things should not be done twice Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but these posts are at least worth looking into? Why would die_meatbaby, as town, warn someone not to do something that would give them away as mafia? There's this, which I think is at least worth a response.On June 09 2024 23:30 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy I try and i will even try more as soon as the people here getting activ. How the fuck should i find out who the fuck is mafia if half of the people not playing where is slam, sandro, rayn,..... guys come on pls write something here. This post is quite scummy as well.
I get the impression that die_meatbaby is trying to blend in. Even if you ignore the low activity/invovlement, I don't get the impression that she's looking for mafia. The classic paranoia isn't really there, she expressed some suspicions about AlphaZero day 1 but didn't really pursue them much.
Also, the soft defense of scott31337 (I'm not going to vote for scott31337 yet but maybe I will later kinda thing) seems really bad to me. It's heavily mafia motivated to save mislynches for the future and to leave possibilities open.
I also feel like she has been avoiding involvement. She always says "I'll post more soon, I'll be more active soon" and then hasn't. Right now, she's hiding under the excuse of not wanting to post during the night phase.
I know there isn't a ton there, but die_meatbaby hasn't given us much to work with. And the town tells I would expect are distinctly not there. The stuff that is there, points to die_meatbaby being mafia.
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On June 10 2024 08:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:38 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 08:05 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax/DMB is argument is really bad looking for Trfel tbh. I'm very confused by this, I provide reasons to suspect them, then they clutter up the thread with nonsense, after which you say it makes me look bad? How does it make me look bad when my suspects are acting anti-town? I literally made them to clutter up the thread. How can you make that about them, just because "they did that"? I didnt see anything that makes either of them mafia, i thought it was tvt. Did you? I mean you did encourage them, but it's still their choice, no? I don't like trying to characterize arguments as TvT or whatever, I think it's very difficult to do accurately with little reward. Maybe a better approach is this: Ignore the whole argument thing, it's hard to make sense of and it doesn't matter. There are reasons to suspect both Vivax and die_meatbaby individually that I think are well worth exploring, and I would like to go back to discussing those reasons. I'm not sure both are mafia, or even that one is, but they're both in my top suspects, so I would like to focus on that please. In addition to the aforementioned reasons for Vivax, he's posted a lot, but I find his posts very uninspiring. I don't think there is anything he said that's particularly insightful, or anything he did that is particularly interesting. And he's had plenty of opportunity to do so. This is very subjective, so if you disagree that's fine, but I'd at least like a bit of evidence to back it up. Like, there are several, separate compelling reasons to lynch Vivax, I am not going to just let this slide. okay, and what about DMB? Don't have any super amazing reasons, but die_meatbaby also hasn't done anything that makes me think she is town. On June 09 2024 23:02 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy She said she wouldn't lynch scott31337 at this time but left the door wide, wide open for doing so in the future. So I wouldn't consider that a deterrent for future lynches. Yes, I agree that die_meatbaby could definitely be mafia. On June 08 2024 10:01 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:57 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:46 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Source on the mafia meta read? Are you looking for the weakest players again like in your last mafia game? I’d go after you no? Why would I go after vivax? Answer the question please I just wanted to remind you you cannot make the same bs twice On June 08 2024 10:19 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 10:13 rsoultin wrote:
i mean the having icky vibes off az i can identify with but maybe your time would be better spent catching up if you're just throwing shade at oats because he was pushing you as mafia in an earlier game I am not pushing him as mafia(atm). i just wanted to remind him that some things should not be done twice Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but these posts are at least worth looking into? Why would die_meatbaby, as town, warn someone not to do something that would give them away as mafia? There's this, which I think is at least worth a response. On June 09 2024 23:30 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 22:52 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 21:36 Trfel wrote:
@AlphaZero, for what it's worth I wasn't trying to "lead" anything.
@marvellosity, I'd consider lowering sandroba for sure. Maybe Vivax too but he might be fine there (I'm probably just paranoid). And I honestly would put Koshi higher, which I know you don't want to hear.
Could be wrong, the one game I played with mafia!Koshi had the slight issue of me also being mafia so I didn't play, so idk what mafia!Koshi is like, but if I had to guess I don't think it would be this.
@Oatsmaster, why wouldn't the reverse apply? Like, why wouldn't mafia be happy lynching town!Kelsi3r and saving the town!scott31337 lynch for tomorrow? Because kel is an infinitely easier lynch tmr? You think so? I think scott31337 is a pretty easy lynch tomorrow (or at any point), but I could see that being wrong I suppose. Other than me and rsoultin, I don't think anyone was particularly vocal about not lynching scott31337?
@AlphaZero, I don't really have much to add. I tend to be right when I defend people suspected by most of the game, I think there was one time I was wrong maybe? But maybe you're right, I can stop, if scott31337 dies then so be it. Dmb wouldn't vote Scott It was literally in the post you last responded to me about I reckon dmb is not trying to solve the game and is scummy I try and i will even try more as soon as the people here getting activ. How the fuck should i find out who the fuck is mafia if half of the people not playing where is slam, sandro, rayn,..... guys come on pls write something here. This post is quite scummy as well. I get the impression that die_meatbaby is trying to blend in. Even if you ignore the low activity/invovlement, I don't get the impression that she's looking for mafia. The classic paranoia isn't really there, she expressed some suspicions about AlphaZero day 1 but didn't really pursue them much. Also, the soft defense of scott31337 (I'm not going to vote for scott31337 yet but maybe I will later kinda thing) seems really bad to me. It's heavily mafia motivated to save mislynches for the future and to leave possibilities open. I also feel like she has been avoiding involvement. She always says "I'll post more soon, I'll be more active soon" and then hasn't. Right now, she's hiding under the excuse of not wanting to post during the night phase. I know there isn't a ton there, but die_meatbaby hasn't given us much to work with. And the town tells I would expect are distinctly not there. The stuff that is there, points to die_meatbaby being mafia. so both her and vivax mafia? I absolutely think it's a possibility. Or maybe just one of them. Or possibly neither tbh, but I think there are solid reasons to suspect them (individually). I'm not sure yet, which is why I'd like to discuss it in a more focused manner, and hopefully more time will help clear it up too.
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On June 10 2024 08:47 Vivax wrote:
I want a bit of pressure on Slam.
3 pages of fitler is bad Yes, I mostly agree with this.
Alakaslam is in the second tier of suspicious imo. That said, in his case I'm not sure if pressure would help?
I absolutely think pressure on sandroba, Vivax, or die_meatbaby will help make their alignment more clear. But I'm not sure if Alakaslam responds that way?
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On June 10 2024 08:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:47 AlphaZero wrote:
Rayn is Scott just really bad? Is that why he is getting a pass here? kind of but no, because last game he was really really good and made a case on mafia... You're talking about the Paint game?
Not to bash on scott31337 but I'm not sure that a Paint game, especially that one given how it played out, is worth looking into very much. It's just very, very dissimilar to this game.
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Hm, I kinda think AlphaZero might be mafia, not really sure why but I think we'd better lynch him.
+ Show Spoiler +Sorry, I couldn't resist
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On June 10 2024 08:59 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 07:51 Trfel wrote:@Scott31337, can I ask about this part of your case in particular? Here he casts more doubt - I lynched my top scumread and that flipped town, so let's go for my #2 scumread!
Now from AZ's perspective if he's mafia (and I still believe he is) he would consider his scrumreads town (Unless they are terrible). Sandroba is a good example. I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here. Particularly the second sentence. The rest of the case I think I see what you're trying to say, but you lost me here. Trfel- So what I was trying to say is that from AZ's perspective, I'm just going in order of my scum list (In his eyes, his townlist) just to get mislynch #1, #2, #3, GG etc. But I'm going after who I believe has the best chance of flipping mafia. And the second part is that AZ considers his mafia team town (I think I used the wrong word there, not scumreads) to protect them. Sandroba is a good example of such. I think AlphaZero is saying that in general, when someone who is town gets one of their scumreads lynched and they flip town, it makes them think they might be wrong on other things too, if that makes sense?
As in, if I was wrong on something, maybe I screwed up on more than just that one thing. Or at least re-evaluate/reconsider.
Does Kelsi3r flipping town not give you the slightest bit of pause?
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The thing about raynpelikoneet is, he's just really really weird this game.
I don't think it's a town-weird or a mafia-weird, just a weird-weird, and it's really throwing me off.On June 10 2024 03:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 03:49 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 03:44 AlphaZero wrote:
Just so we are clear for people like trfel and Marv.
When invited to give any reason at all for his biggest scum read of the game Scott didn’t answer and said some bs about the nk that makes no sense.
Then left the thread. He did this because there is no genuine thought process behind his reads. So he couldnt answer and deflected instead.
This is not a bad argument or lynch bait thing.
This is something that comes from mafia. aside from scott, do you think this has an impact for other people? because youre prolly gonna get shot if youre right. I Think you need to unravel the day one Lynch if you are town and I die. There was a very strange resistance to Scot’s lynch which felt like mafia agenda at work. Could be koshi, could be oats, trfel I’m not sure his play is soo sooo different this game. He is really active but not really scumhunting imo. Not an easy game. I dont think Oats is mafia. Trfel, maybe? But no? Trfel is making posts why i could be mafia, i dont think he could fake that as well as he is posting about me, if he was mafia. I think it's healthy suspicion tbh, one that he would not go into as mafia. rsoultin (koshi)... idk tbh, rsoultin looked really townie, koshi does not at all. possible? You can see now, how my opinion of the D1 events turned immediately into you and marv? I still don't know if i am right, or not, but like... it is weird as fuck to me that scott didn't get lynched. If he is mafia, then someone surely did something. If he is town, then idk why any of this matters.Currently i am on board with you of him being mafia. See the bolded. Raynpelikoneet goes into a huge argument with AlphaZero and marvellosity, saying that it's suspicious that they weren't able to get the lynch on their scumread, scott31337. However, raynpelikoneet also thinks scott31337 is town, and in the above quote he says that if scott31337 is town then marvellosity and AlphaZero not getting their lynch doesn't mean anything.On June 10 2024 02:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Or maybe scott is mafia and i end up looking like an idiot, since i honestly doubt either of marv / AZ would do that as mafia with him.
However it's easy to look youre "doing stuff" while actually you arent, when there is no mafia on the line of being lynched. Not sure if I am reading this post correctly but it comes off to me like raynpelikoneet kinda thinks scott31337 may be town. Also note that this post was made before the previously quoted post. After this raynpelikoneet's view on scott31337 is surprisingly ambiguous, so it's possible that he hasn't made up his mind yet?On June 10 2024 07:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i dont think scott is mafia btw. Finally ended up on this, several hours later.On June 10 2024 08:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:38 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 08:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
AZ i dont think scott is mafia.
We can talk about that if you want to. Sure. Why is he not. His case didn’t even have a shred of thinking regarding my alignment. It was confirmation bias searching for a justification. The Sandro part was particularly egregious. Yes i think it was awful. I however think it was a case made by a townie. Seems to say that scott31337's case on AlphaZero is what made raynpelikoneet think scott31337 is town.
That said, my point is, why does raynpelikoneet focus so much into arguing with marvellosity and AlphaZero about how this can make them mafia when the whole thing is contingent on scott31337 being mafia, and raynpelikoneet is (at best) unsure about scott31337's alignment? Even with marvellosity and AlphaZero being in the thread and scott31337 not, that's an incredibly convoluted approach. I would absolutely expect someone with a town mindset to focus on scott31337's alignment, maybe mention the suspicion of the other two, but raynpelikoneet jumps way ahead in a very illogical manner.
Also, raynpelikoneet being suspicious of AlphaZero doesn't sit right with me. He presented a reason why AlphaZero could be mafia if scott31337 is mafia, but then when he concludes that scott31337 is town, he has other "reasons" to suspect AlphaZero. Like this:On June 10 2024 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:22 AlphaZero wrote:
Rayn why am I mafia?
Scott took all night to fail to point out it, maybe you can do better? I dont think youre necessarily mafia, i think youre either pressing right or wrong shit, on scott, and i think youre wrong. Does it make you mafia? No. It does increase the possibility of you being mafia imo, in case scott is not mafia. As for why you could be mafia, i dont know who you are, i dont know if you can make these posts as mafia as well as town. Similarly as you seem to be approaching to me. I already said i think youre okay, but well.. not okay for me. You will have to deal with it i guess. I actually agree with AlphaZero that this kind of thing is nonsense. It's not helpful or productive. Maybe I'm making something out of nothing here, but the timing of it all feels a bit forced to me, the way that raynpelikoneet has to back off on his suspicions of AlphaZero due to starting to townread scott31337, but then has new reasons out of nowhere, except they aren't actually reasons.
He's certainly posted a lot since returning to the thread, about nine pages worth in eight hours which is kinda insane, but I'm not sure what he's done? He's certainly been existing in the thread and interacting, but I am very unimpressed by his analysis, I don't think he's posting any thoughts that are particularly useful. Maybe a better way to put it is that he's asking a lot of questions but not actually contributing much of his own?
He investigated the idea of marvellosity and AlphaZero being mafia early on, but then largely dropped it.
Then he eventually decided that scott31337 is town.
And he doesn't have any other conclusions at all, and no investigation either really? For example, he asks why sandroba is mafia besides inactivity, then later says sandroba is worth considering. But he doesn't do anything about this. Just leaves it at a non-committal, who knows.
In summary, I guess:
1. Illogical thought process to suspect marvellosity and AlphaZero with reasoning contingent on scott31337's alignment, while not seeming interested in scott31337's alignment first
2. Extremely high activity and involvement without actually having useful thoughts, and coming to minimal conclusions
So yeah, upon review, I kinda do think it's a mafia-weird.
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Watch List
die_meatbaby: seemingly no drive to solve the game or contribute, constantly hiding behind excuses
Alakaslam: said marvellosity is mafia but then later said he is town, said scott31337 is mafia, and that's literally it
raynpelikoneet: seems to want to talk but doesn't want to figure anything out
sandroba: lack of activity/involvement
Vivax: no desire/interest in seeing his scumread (scott31337) lynched, instead talks about what scott31337 being town means or looking at other options
Maybe Watch List (but probably not)
scott31337
Oatsmaster
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On June 10 2024 09:45 AlphaZero wrote:
Medic toss a coin between trfel and Marv. Marvellosity or you 100% imo, town needs a leader.
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Might also be worth noting that raynpelikoneet's high post count, discussion heavy game without conclusions or real pushes matches his no scumread buddy-buddy play from Day 1 (before the period of inactivity
Sadly I seem to have scared raynpelikoneet away Was really curious how he would respond.
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On June 10 2024 10:01 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:00 Trfel wrote:Might also be worth noting that raynpelikoneet's high post count, discussion heavy game without conclusions or real pushes matches his no scumread buddy-buddy play from Day 1 (before the period of inactivity Sadly I seem to have scared raynpelikoneet away Was really curious how he would respond. Does it being night change anything for you Night as in the phase, or night as in roughly 4a in Finland?
The former, not at all. The latter, yes, which is why I was mostly joking. It is a bit disappointing since raynpelikoneet was present one minute before I posted, but it doesn't mean anything.
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On June 10 2024 10:06 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:03 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 10:00 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 10 2024 09:35 AlphaZero wrote:
I agree trfel. that is a good post. Not good post Why? The first half is completely irrelevant. The point isn’t whether Scott is town or mafia, it’s if az and marv are town, why didn’t they get Scott lynched. With such a critical misunderstanding, it colors the whole post badly. Further more, it’s not really a thing to push people at night. Further further more, rayn was able to interact significantly with koshi/marv/az so saying that just because there’s no conclusion that Rayn is just interacting for interaction sake is just not correct For the first part, raynpelikoneet literally said that if scott31337 is town, the whole thing about AlphaZero and marvellosity is meaningless. Even if you disagree, this is what raynpelikoneet thought, so shouldn't he play as if that is true?
The other points are more subjective I guess, but your first claim is just definitively wrong if I am reading it correctly.
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Obviously good is subjective but I would argue that anyone who knows anything about the game makes reads and posts their thoughts at night largely as if it was day. I mean, the TL Mafia guides say you should do this.
There are exceptions, like mayyybe you don't make a big post 30 minutes before the deadline, but in general, extra discussion time is considered more than worth giving mafia information for night kills. I'm honestly shocked that so many players have indicated that they are withholding information due to it being night, I thought most everyone knew that is just an inferior way to play.
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On June 10 2024 10:17 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:14 Trfel wrote:
Obviously good is subjective but I would argue that anyone who knows anything about the game makes reads and posts their thoughts at night largely as if it was day. I mean, the TL Mafia guides say you should do this.
There are exceptions, like mayyybe you don't make a big post 30 minutes before the deadline, but in general, extra discussion time is considered more than worth giving mafia information for night kills. I'm honestly shocked that so many players have indicated that they are withholding information due to it being night, I thought most everyone knew that is just an inferior way to play. Thoughts != push/hard conclusions You can’t lynch anyone at night, that causes changes in play Do you think raynpelikoneet is town?
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I think he thinks Alakaslam is mafia? Bottom of the second to last page of his filter?
Side note, I kinda like how Oatsmaster dismissed my post and Vivax ignored it. And they're both not committing to a stance on raynpelikoneet. Makes me think we might be on to something.
The biggest lesson of all though seems to be that the game is just infinitely easier to play if AlphaZero agrees with you.
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On June 10 2024 10:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:37 Trfel wrote:
I think he thinks Alakaslam is mafia? Bottom of the second to last page of his filter?
Side note, I kinda like how Oatsmaster dismissed my post and Vivax ignored it. And they're both not committing to a stance on raynpelikoneet. Makes me think we might be on to something.
The biggest lesson of all though seems to be that the game is just infinitely easier to play if AlphaZero agrees with you. I have a hard time taking your opinions as serious so I assume you just want to play with me a la me fake voting rayn on D1 and the best answer to that is to ignore it until you get serious. Maybe you‘ll tell me you‘re serious but I still wouldn‘t believe you. But it‘s entertaining And I'm supposed to think you are town why, again?
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On June 10 2024 10:42 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:37 Trfel wrote:
I think he thinks Alakaslam is mafia? Bottom of the second to last page of his filter?
Side note, I kinda like how Oatsmaster dismissed my post and Vivax ignored it. And they're both not committing to a stance on raynpelikoneet. Makes me think we might be on to something.
The biggest lesson of all though seems to be that the game is just infinitely easier to play if AlphaZero agrees with you. Is that why it feels like climbing an ice coated vertical mountain for me? Quite possibly, yeah
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On June 10 2024 10:44 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:42 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 10:41 Vivax wrote:On June 10 2024 10:37 Trfel wrote:
I think he thinks Alakaslam is mafia? Bottom of the second to last page of his filter?
Side note, I kinda like how Oatsmaster dismissed my post and Vivax ignored it. And they're both not committing to a stance on raynpelikoneet. Makes me think we might be on to something.
The biggest lesson of all though seems to be that the game is just infinitely easier to play if AlphaZero agrees with you. I have a hard time taking your opinions as serious so I assume you just want to play with me a la me fake voting rayn on D1 and the best answer to that is to ignore it until you get serious. Maybe you‘ll tell me you‘re serious but I still wouldn‘t believe you. But it‘s entertaining And I'm supposed to think you are town why, again? I don‘t care if you think I am town. I do my thing but it‘s not going to be to explain to you why I am. I mean you do you, but your thing is looking extremely mafia-motivated.
So many suspicious people, unfortunately it's hard to figure out who to lynch, they can't all be mafia Usually I have the reverse problem.
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die_meatbaby on Vivax
On June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Die_meatbaby's third post of the game. For what it's worth I don't think this is a terribly good way to read Vivax, but I'm curious if die_meatbaby follows this view throughout the game.On June 10 2024 05:31 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 05:20 Vivax wrote:
One cannot not like Koshi.
He‘s the hypno-buddha in the flesh fewer and fewer town points for you. Maybe I have to reread you filter. you are paranoid about RL but not about the game. Thats kinda strange. I don´t like that More posts to a similar effect but I'm running out of time. Now I need to check if Vivax's posting warrants the change but idk if I have time to do so
My guess is that it's debatable.
Gut feels say look at raynpelikoneet and Vivax most. Sandroba, die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, maybe scott31337 and Oatsmaster after that. No particular order on those.
Vivax is just.... so nonsensical? I am really struggling with how he could be town and be like this. I'm honestly willing to give Alakaslam more time when so many otehrs are so sus
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Expected. Just wanted to get my thoughts out there in case. Hey, at least I can finish my post I guess?
I think voting for Vivax is the most useful here so I'm going to do that. If you are town you should consider doing the same.
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On June 10 2024 05:02 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:VivaxVivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. For some reason it took me a long time to understand this. But having spent said time, I think it’s a good case Gonna take my marvellosity credit and cash it in to make everyone vote for Vivax!
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AlphaZero, if you're still around, can you go for Vivax with me?
Trust?
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On June 10 2024 11:09 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 11:06 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 05:02 marvellosity wrote:On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:VivaxVivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:
[quote]town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing?
at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. For some reason it took me a long time to understand this. But having spent said time, I think it’s a good case Gonna take my marvellosity credit and cash it in to make everyone vote for Vivax! Ok part of me wants to do this and part of me says this is the scummiest shit you have done all game Trust me? It's objectively the best play.
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@AlphaZero, thanks, you're the best
@Alakaslam, maybe read my mind? Chupazi hijole? (side note, when you search for chupazi on Google, Alakaslam is the first thing that comes up, I think that's pretty awesome ) Trust me, the reason for doing this is very solid. You'll thank me later.
@Mocsta, c'mon, you too now. Don't try and ignore this. It's objectively the right play.
@die_meatbaby, I don't know if you are town, but if you are, this is where you want to be.
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On June 10 2024 11:13 AlphaZero wrote:
12 page filter is a good argument for town vivax tho. Doesn't matter, this is simply the best play.
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On June 10 2024 11:22 scott31337 wrote:
I'm going to sheep your case Trfel.
I do want to hear Koshi's thoughts though. Right, my bad, I forgot you were around too >< Thanks <3
If there's anyone else around who I forgot to mention, you've gotta vote for Vivax. No exceptions.
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Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all.
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On June 10 2024 11:01 die_meatbaby wrote:
mocasta maybe red aswell Actually, I glossed over this in all the things going on.On June 10 2024 11:08 die_meatbaby wrote:
I don´t understand mafia here right now. If somebody claims blue... why do they not kill mocstar.
Marv is always strong Town. But mafia shouldn´t be that scared of him on the n1 Which is it? Is Mocsta mafia, or is he blue?
If anything these posts would make much more sense reversed, where die_meatbaby is thinking of Mocsta as blue before the deadline, but mafia after, no?
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On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep. You can't honestly tell me you are going to read 111+ pages tomorrow? That's simply not realistic. Plus filters on top?
This is the kind of thing I find suspicious.
"sorry I've been inactive I will catch up now"
"I'll have more time tomorrow and will play properly"
"stuck at work, tomorrow I will be here"
"now I will have real time to play"
"sorry work was busy so I will go to sleep and reread the game tomorrow"
"I'll try more when more people are active"
"I'm sorry I didn't play yesterday due to work, I'll start playing as soon as the night phase is over"
"I'll post my scumreads before the night ends"
"oops my nap was too long, [random names of people who might be mafia with no reason]"
"I'll have a lot of time the next two days"
"tomorrow I will filter everyone and reread the game and post my reads"
When does it end?
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On June 10 2024 12:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax mocsta slam final answer But you won't vote for Vivax?
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On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. For example, what is this? It doesn't make sense to lynch scott31337 because the majority kept him alive, so instead we should look at the rsoultin/Koshi slot for helping keep scott31337 alive? Which only has weight if scott31337 is mafia? But remember, it doesn't make sense to lynch scott31337?!?!
Just too many suspicious things to lynch them all
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Hey Mocsta, can you talk to me for a bit? I feel like I'm going insane and need help to not do that ><
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On June 10 2024 12:38 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 12:29 Mocsta wrote:
Why does everyone keep posting combos
We don't have the flips for association
We have the marv flip. Trfel suddenly pushing mislynches and ignoring the NK and generally not looking very believable. AZ sitting around like some kung fu master sorting people into japanese fighting game tiers. Oats being Oats. How did I ignore the night kill?
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On June 10 2024 12:36 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 12:30 Trfel wrote:
Hey Mocsta, can you talk to me for a bit? I feel like I'm going insane and need help to not do that >< look I can It's going to be review the case though right? That's something will have to wait till I'm back from work I'm actually getting incredibly tilted, I'm looking at things and trying to figure things out and posting my thoughts, but pretty much everything I say is either ignored, disagreed with for no reason, or disagreed with for blatantly illogical reasons. It's frustrating the heck out of me, and I have no idea how to get past it.
Maybe I could lynch the people who are acting like this, but it's a lot of people and they may not be mafia? So that's not a good method at all.
Maybe I could take a break, but I don't think things will be any different when I return.
I really really rely on having a sounding board, like someone to check my sanity, but if my "sounding board" says I'm insane, without reason, every time, then it's pretty counterproductive.
I'm trying to simplify my suspicions into concise arguments, can you help me figure out which of these (if any) make sense? My view is that if the reasons are legit, I should be able to state them very simply.
die_meatbaby: seemingly no drive to solve the game or contribute, constantly hiding behind excuses
Alakaslam: said marvellosity is mafia but then later said he is town, said scott31337 is mafia, and that's literally it (for clarity, the reason is that he isn't drawing conclusions about the game)
raynpelikoneet: seems to want to talk but doesn't want to figure anything out
sandroba: lack of activity/involvement
I'll even not talk about Vivax for now, can't put it concisely enough.
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On June 10 2024 12:48 Vivax wrote:
Basically Trfel tried to set himself up as the successor to marv just in time for the nk.
Mighty sus. He was his biggest obstacle. What do you mean?!
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Vivax, can you talk to me? Even if just a little?
I'm willing to work with you here but that seems like the last thing you want to do. And honestly I'm just confused as to why.
If you don't agree with what I'm saying, can you just tell me why? If I'm wrong, it'd help to know, that way I can at least try to adjust.
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On June 10 2024 12:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 12:45 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 12:36 Mocsta wrote:On June 10 2024 12:30 Trfel wrote:
Hey Mocsta, can you talk to me for a bit? I feel like I'm going insane and need help to not do that >< look I can It's going to be review the case though right? That's something will have to wait till I'm back from work I'm actually getting incredibly tilted, I'm looking at things and trying to figure things out and posting my thoughts, but pretty much everything I say is either ignored, disagreed with for no reason, or disagreed with for blatantly illogical reasons. It's frustrating the heck out of me, and I have no idea how to get past it. Maybe I could lynch the people who are acting like this, but it's a lot of people and they may not be mafia? So that's not a good method at all. Maybe I could take a break, but I don't think things will be any different when I return. I really really rely on having a sounding board, like someone to check my sanity, but if my "sounding board" says I'm insane, without reason, every time, then it's pretty counterproductive.
I'm trying to simplify my suspicions into concise arguments, can you help me figure out which of these (if any) make sense? My view is that if the reasons are legit, I should be able to state them very simply. die_meatbaby: seemingly no drive to solve the game or contribute, constantly hiding behind excuses Alakaslam: said marvellosity is mafia but then later said he is town, said scott31337 is mafia, and that's literally it (for clarity, the reason is that he isn't drawing conclusions about the game) raynpelikoneet: seems to want to talk but doesn't want to figure anything out sandroba: lack of activity/involvement I'll even not talk about Vivax for now, can't put it concisely enough. I feel ya and see that tilt play out Step back is my suggestion cos town culture has been set and you are seeking more than it seems willing to give. It may not change but you may be less frustrated. I'm not going to be offer more than that right now sorry dude I am wondering if this town ignore environment started with mafia or town. I'm guessing town because it spans to too many player. So it piques my interest whom is perpetuating it unnecessarily (e.g. association flips) It's hard to say, there's been a lot of anti-town play. Some of it has to be from mafia but some of it is likely from town as well.
Honestly I think marvellosity was the thing that was barely keeping everything together.
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Maybe the reduced posting style is better after all. Maybe it makes people more willing to read your posts and take you seriously if you aren't posting so darn much.
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Mocsta, first, Grackaroni doesn't read the thread, and second, don't use blue, that's for hosts only ><
@Vivax, it's not odd because I asked for his trust. He took a leap of faith. I think it's quite reasonable.
I've posted on die_meatbaby and raynpelikoneet, I'm just wondering why you think they are town?
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On June 10 2024 13:08 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 13:01 Trfel wrote:
Maybe the reduced posting style is better after all. Maybe it makes people more willing to read your posts and take you seriously if you aren't posting so darn much. can we ditch the cases for a second what do you view as the significant puzzle pieces in this game? im asking as that may unlock what is holding back town from uniting. e.g. sandroba is a puzzle piece with a lot of push-pull tension scott is another controversial push-pull are there other parts of the game like this? I think scott31337 has (by existing) caused the most division, and it's not close.
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On June 10 2024 19:45 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 19:36 Mocsta wrote:On June 10 2024 19:21 Koshi wrote:
Pretty sure scott is 100% town. No way he puts marv in black before shooting him.
In addition to everything I said about him and marv townreading him That's a good point too I think that’s really easy thing to do as mafia. So I disagree. In all honesty I don't even get how this could possibly mean anything about scott31337?
For example, I know I've dropped an end of night case on the person I was shooting before. Why would scott31337 not null-read marvellosity as mafia? Truly confused.
@Mocsta, I don't ever think lynching for info is worth it tbh. I think we'd gain a lot less clarity than expected.
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AlphaZero, is scott31337 still your preferred lynch today? I'm curious if anyone else is worth considering from your perspective?
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On June 10 2024 12:02 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep. You can't honestly tell me you are going to read 111+ pages tomorrow? That's simply not realistic. Plus filters on top? This is the kind of thing I find suspicious. "sorry I've been inactive I will catch up now" "I'll have more time tomorrow and will play properly" "stuck at work, tomorrow I will be here" "now I will have real time to play" "sorry work was busy so I will go to sleep and reread the game tomorrow" "I'll try more when more people are active" "I'm sorry I didn't play yesterday due to work, I'll start playing as soon as the night phase is over" "I'll post my scumreads before the night ends" "oops my nap was too long, [random names of people who might be mafia with no reason]" "I'll have a lot of time the next two days" "tomorrow I will filter everyone and reread the game and post my reads" When does it end? Also, in case it wasn't clear, each one of the quotes above has a direct match in die_meatbaby's filter. I paraphrased slightly for clarity but the sheer number of excuses is striking. Die_meatbaby seems willing to do anything besides actually play the game and figure out who is mafia.
Maybe it's a bad reason but if all else is equal, I just don't want to lose to this? Not sure when but unless something changes dramatically, it's hard to see a way around flipping or blue action'ing this slot at some point.
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On June 10 2024 20:52 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 20:13 Trfel wrote:
AlphaZero, is scott31337 still your preferred lynch today? I'm curious if anyone else is worth considering from your perspective? I’m worried I’m tunnelled so I’m going to take a step back. I want to spend some time reviewing things when I get a chance. Not sure when that will be. I would probably lynch him if I had my way because then I am either visited or I can move on and clear my mind a bit. I’m trying to do that anyway as basically everyone except Alan and vivax are not interested in lynching him and that’s not great company to keep. I’d be interested In a Sandro, dmb or Rayn lynch right now. But I’m backing your play here and seeing how things develop Gotcha, makes sense.
@die_meatbaby, so we are in agreement that scott31337 looks scummy all the time, right? May I ask, why does that mean he is town here? Couldn't he actually just be mafia and still looking scummy?
Very glad sandroba is back in the hope that he is town. Sandroba could provide some missing sanity. Ofc if he is mafia then never mind ><
@Vivax, just to clarify, it sounds like you are having some pretty serious health issues? Like 100% serious not joking?
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On June 11 2024 02:46 Vivax wrote:
Yes I have health issues but I rant about them I don‘t want special treatment.
Trfel would you consider yourself a honest and genuine person ? To the latter, yes?
To the former, it's not so much a sympathy thing, I mean I do sympathize and hope you feel better soon, but I still need to attempt to find mafia and do the best that I can with that. I was trying to get at, if you are unable to play properly, I'd like to know, because I don't want to hold you to expectations that (regardless of alignment) you aren't going to be able to meet.
Seriously though, take care of yourself, and hope you feel better soon
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On June 11 2024 02:55 Vivax wrote:
What do you mean yes? Genuine and honest persons don‘t exist everyone lies.
I think you puff up your posts a lot. How so?
Like I don't want to get too off track but if you're getting at something I can humor you for a bit.
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On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Middle point is actually very interesting. Good find.On June 11 2024 03:00 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 02:57 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:55 Vivax wrote:
What do you mean yes? Genuine and honest persons don‘t exist everyone lies.
I think you puff up your posts a lot. How so? Like I don't want to get too off track but if you're getting at something I can humor you for a bit. You try hard to look like a saint I mean. It seems you try to act positively but I don‘t buy it and I believe you are more interested into burying the truth about people with it. Others or yourself Okay, I mean I disagree but you have a right to your opinion. Why are you telling me this?
I try to phrase things in a way that is as accurate as possible, I want to leave the least ambiguity and provide the most direct and clear phrasing. Basically I want to deal with as few misunderstandings as possible, if me being more accurate means that there are fewer misunderstandings so we can discuss the actual content more, then that's worth it for me.
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On June 11 2024 03:11 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:04 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Middle point is actually very interesting. Good find. On June 11 2024 03:00 Vivax wrote:On June 11 2024 02:57 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:55 Vivax wrote:
What do you mean yes? Genuine and honest persons don‘t exist everyone lies.
I think you puff up your posts a lot. How so? Like I don't want to get too off track but if you're getting at something I can humor you for a bit. You try hard to look like a saint I mean. It seems you try to act positively but I don‘t buy it and I believe you are more interested into burying the truth about people with it. Others or yourself Okay, I mean I disagree but you have a right to your opinion. Why are you telling me this? I try to phrase things in a way that is as accurate as possible, I want to leave the least ambiguity and provide the most direct and clear phrasing. Basically I want to deal with as few misunderstandings as possible, if me being more accurate means that there are fewer misunderstandings so we can discuss the actual content more, then that's worth it for me. I‘m telling you this because my bullshit detector is detecting a push on me which isn‘t in good faith but I also refuse to believe you are mafia so you are hiding the true reason for wanting me lynched. I'll tell you the true reason, but can I get a few answers first?On June 10 2024 21:20 Vivax wrote:
I think Koshi is mafia now but that means I have to re-evaluate the entire game now.
Because him townreading scott for that stupid reason reeks a lot of tmi. Were you able to re-evaluate? Is this:On June 11 2024 00:15 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 00:06 sandroba wrote:
I'm around page 70, the beginning of N1. My worldview right now is:
Town:
trfel
mocsta
oats
scott
Likely town:
vivax
AZ
Mafia is here:
rsoul, rayn, dmb, slam rsoul ? Aside from that it‘s not bad. Koshi/dmb/slam/rayn/mocsta is my newest pool. But it‘s thrown together I‘m busy moving and I won‘t post boxes. Still where your head is at?
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On June 11 2024 03:15 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:13 Vivax wrote:On June 11 2024 03:11 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 03:11 Vivax wrote:On June 11 2024 03:04 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Middle point is actually very interesting. Good find. On June 11 2024 03:00 Vivax wrote:On June 11 2024 02:57 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:55 Vivax wrote:
What do you mean yes? Genuine and honest persons don‘t exist everyone lies.
I think you puff up your posts a lot. How so? Like I don't want to get too off track but if you're getting at something I can humor you for a bit. You try hard to look like a saint I mean. It seems you try to act positively but I don‘t buy it and I believe you are more interested into burying the truth about people with it. Others or yourself Okay, I mean I disagree but you have a right to your opinion. Why are you telling me this? I try to phrase things in a way that is as accurate as possible, I want to leave the least ambiguity and provide the most direct and clear phrasing. Basically I want to deal with as few misunderstandings as possible, if me being more accurate means that there are fewer misunderstandings so we can discuss the actual content more, then that's worth it for me. I‘m telling you this because my bullshit detector is detecting a push on me which isn‘t in good faith but I also refuse to believe you are mafia so you are hiding the true reason for wanting me lynched. lol. Just lol. Why is it funny ? It is funny how you pretend you can detect the difference between a townie that is wrong, mafia, and a townie that is being wrong on purpose. I mean, you're the one who is funny because he is absolutely right...
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Of my possible suspects, I felt that Vivax would be most affected by pressure. Vivax has trouble keeping up his activity as mafia, it stands to reason that he'd struggle even more when facing large odds. (explanation: if you have a hard time posting and keeping active as mafia, then that's even harder when your purpose for posting, staying alive, seems out of reach)
Unfortunately it's really hard to get people to vote for something without super incredible reasons, and honestly even then I can't get people to vote for something :/ so the effort that went into getting the votes kinda gave it away.
Also Vivax seems to have stuff going on (moving, health issues) that prevent him from playing up to his ideal standard, which makes it harder to get a clear conclusion from the pressure. The ideal result would have been Vivax going on a crusade to find the mafia in the face of insurmountable odds, which didn't happen, but I think the way Vivax played makes me much more able to see him as town than I was before. Because he didn't give up, he kept playing his game and doing his thing, and I respect that a ton.
I'd much rather pursue other options for now, I think at this point, Vivax is much less suspicious than several others.
##unvote
##vote die_meatbaby
Side note, you can call my play stupid, I wouldn't necessarily disagree. I think we benefited some from it at least, and I think a few factors out of my control limited the impact. But it's hard to know how it will play out before you will do it, and I've never tried something like this before, I figured it was worth a go.
I think I'm most interested in die_meatbaby and raynpelikoneet. Second tier would be Oatsmaster, Koshi, scott31337, Alakaslam, sandroba, and Vivax. I'm very glad that raynpelikoneet and AlphaZero are whisperers, I hope that AlphaZero can get some leads there.
I'm okayish with sandroba for now, honestly (as in, I am not confident enough that he is mafia to lynch him as opposed for waiting to see more from him). Oatsmaster is paranoia. Koshi is weirding me out, Alakaslam is just confusing. I think that unless something changes dramatically, die_meatbaby is the most sensible lynch.
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I do need to look at Koshi more. I haven't done my due diligence in that. Koshi is always very confusing for me, his extreme confidence makes it hard for me to understand his thought processes.
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@scott31337, I can't control your vote, but I'd look at die_meatbaby again.
Admittedly I don't have the greatest understanding of die_meatbaby's list post, which is her biggest contribution to the game, so maybe I'm being hasty. But I felt like she had dug herself a very, very, VERY deep hole before that. For example, remember how die_meatbaby said she was going to reread the game and everyone's filters? She also said that last time she was mafia. Can you honestly tell me you think die_meatbaby reread the game and everyone's filters? It's just not realistic. I don't even care how fast you can read. It's a blatant lie, and one that she is known to use as mafia.
Also note how she is ignoring the reasons used to scumread her. This is very likely because they are accurate, and there's nothing she can do about it. She's just trying to distract from them and hope people forget.
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Nah you're fine Vivax. I just think die_meatbaby looks a lot like her mafia game. I dunno if you read much of that since we mislynched you day 1 but she's still coming up with anything and everything to avoid scum hunting. It's different on the surface (no crusade against Palmar, no overwhelming, constant anger) but deeper than that, it's very similar.
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On June 11 2024 03:47 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also what has fake push from trfel towards vivax have to do with needing to reassess OTHER four ppl??? Because I trusted him. Because marv said it was a good case. My brain can only accept one truth and then feel if it is a good truth. To be fair I intentionally ignored marvellosity's post right after he said my case was good where he said Vivax posted a lot and that's a good reason for him to he town.
I see you glossed over this.
Who's ignoring marvellosity's filter now?
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Or was that Vivax who accused me of ignoring marvellosity's filter? Could be wrong.
Oh well, if I was right it was a good gotcha.
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I'm honestly confused at how Koshi can be so upset over this?
The only reason someone should be this upset IMO is if they were extremely invested in seeing Vivax lynched.
With that in mind, why does Koshi think Vivax is mafia? When he voted for Vivax, he quoted one of my posts, presumably as reasoning. However, that was a post about die_meatbaby with a one-liner on Vivax. Koshi also seems to think Vivax is mafia because Vivax thinks scott31337 is mafia.
If Koshi was so certain and invested in Vivax being mafia that he'd get this upset at me backing off of the Vivax pressure, surely he'd have some actual reasons, no?
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I mean if you guys still think Vivax is mafia and want to lynch him, go ahead I guess? Maybe you're right. I certainly haven't cleared Vivax, I just thought there was no further benefit from voting for him.
I just think a few other people look worse.
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On June 11 2024 04:05 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:02 Trfel wrote:
I'm honestly confused at how Koshi can be so upset over this?
The only reason someone should be this upset IMO is if they were extremely invested in seeing Vivax lynched.
With that in mind, why does Koshi think Vivax is mafia? When he voted for Vivax, he quoted one of my posts, presumably as reasoning. However, that was a post about die_meatbaby with a one-liner on Vivax. Koshi also seems to think Vivax is mafia because Vivax thinks scott31337 is mafia.
If Koshi was so certain and invested in Vivax being mafia that he'd get this upset at me backing off of the Vivax pressure, surely he'd have some actual reasons, no? Because I think you had Vivax. In that case the reasons are still there, aren't they? Can't you just go lynch him, with or without me?
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Was trying to analyze die_meatbaby's last game as mafia to compare it to this game but it was hard to make a clear analysis. There weren't individual posts that matched, more of overall trends.
The key though is, die_meatbaby doesn't really know what to do as mafia. She was mafia in a game that was aborted, and then her first "full" game as mafia was Winter Warfare Mafia, about six months ago, which is the game I was referring to. In this game, she went on a huge crusade about Palmar being mafia, and hid behind emotional responses (mostly anger). This is why I say that she doesn't know how to play as scum, because she didn't play the game "normally," just focused on one scumread for literally the entire game.
This game, it's different. Let's assume for the moment that die_meatbaby is indeed mafia here. She can't play the same way she did as last game, because that could only work once. In other words, can't use emotion to cover up not playing, can't hide behind one single scumread the whole game. So what can she do?
The answer is the excuses for inactivity/not scumhunting (see here if you want to know what I am talking about). That's an excuse more frequently than every eight posts. This is absolutely ridiculous, and I am really struggling to see how this could come from town.
Furthermore, she's consistently avoided responding to the reasons people are bringing up to scumread her. Just posting about something else (usually how she's not able to play). This makes me think that the reasons are accurate, and she has no explanation.
Are there any reasons to not lynch die_meatbaby? I'm trying to think of ways this could be wrong, and sometimes I have doubts, but never any reasons to actually townread her. If she is actually town and is playing like this (or rather, not playing like this), I don't see how anyone could ever realistically figure out that she is town. I'll keep thinking about it, but if this is true, there's a huge risk if we let die_meatbaby live, and the issue just isn't going to go away.
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On June 11 2024 03:57 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:50 Trfel wrote:
Nah you're fine Vivax. I just think die_meatbaby looks a lot like her mafia game. I dunno if you read much of that since we mislynched you day 1 but she's still coming up with anything and everything to avoid scum hunting. It's different on the surface (no crusade against Palmar, no overwhelming, constant anger) but deeper than that, it's very similar. Why do I avoid scum hunting? I told you sandro what be my highest prefering lynch but I am fine with Vivax as well "See, I'm scumhunting! Sandroba is my top scumread!!!"
(meanwhile, sandroba is posting for the first time in over 48 hours and die_meatbaby doesn't have any interest in this whatsoever)
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On June 11 2024 05:01 Koshi wrote:
DMB shares my reads and calls me supertown.
Hard for me to lynch her. I think you also might share an alignment
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On June 10 2024 07:22 Koshi wrote:No I am going to bed. I dont like sandroba because there is 0 emotion in his play. Very analytical posts, no "wrong or cheap" stuff to figure out the game. I dont know. It almost looks too stereotypical one sided to be mafia. Like... why would you play mafia like that. This is Koshi's reason for sandroba being mafia? Plus small filter? And that's it?
Disappointing.
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On June 11 2024 05:14 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 05:13 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 07:22 Koshi wrote:On June 10 2024 07:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
anyone here? No I am going to bed. I dont like sandroba because there is 0 emotion in his play. Very analytical posts, no "wrong or cheap" stuff to figure out the game. I dont know. It almost looks too stereotypical one sided to be mafia. Like... why would you play mafia like that. This is Koshi's reason for sandroba being mafia? Plus small filter? And that's it? Disappointing. I would prefer it if you vote me over dmb. Because I will defend myself. Now you are going to bury a townie and mafia will sit in your ass. I'm still not sure where to end up. I like the die_meatbaby vote right now but could absolutely be wrong, or something else could definitely be better.
Just can't do it all instantly.
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On June 10 2024 04:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 03:59 Trfel wrote:
@Raynpelikoneet, I think without reading that portion of the thread, especially the last 10 pages before the deadline, it's tough to understand. So many people weren't present that nothing was going to happen. I wouldn't attribute it to AlphaZero and marvellosity at all, there's simply no convincing someone who isn't there to hear you. yes i am over that shit already. See, you say you are over it, but you keep bringing it up? What?
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Koshi: makes no sense. Tries to post fluidly but as the game state has been changing rapidly, he's shown an incongruous mindset. For example, he said I went from hero to zero. He thought I was doing great because I was pushing Vivax and raynpelikoneet. But Koshi himself stopped scumreading Vivax, before posting the hero to zero thing, and I don't even think he is that suspicious of raynpelikoneet. But he still said hero to zero. How can he still say that I was being a hero if he thinks I was pushing townies as mafia? That's very far from hero play?
Die_meatbaby, Koshi, and raynpelikoneet are in a special tier of hyper suspicious people that make me wish we could triple lynch today
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On June 11 2024 05:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I should be on computer in somewhat 30mins.
Let it be known i already told AZ 6 hours ago i dont think case on vivax is strong. Vivax teaction to case wss also townie. I can write why the case is not hood an see how many people will still stick there. Don't bother, I can't imagine Vivax getting lynched.
Is there any reason why I should think you are town?
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On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Okay, lemme break down the best case in the game.
First point, you even say isn't bad in and of itself.
Second point, I thought made sense, upon rereading sandroba's filter though that's not what he is saying. Sandroba's post #2446 means that he thinks Oatsmaster can't be mafia if rsoultin/Koshi is town. He just said it in a weird way. Then, separately, he thinks Oatsmaster is town. At a glance you can maybe see it as sandroba thinking that if rsoultin/Koshi is mafia, Oatsmaster is mafia, but I really really don't think that is what sandroba is saying.
Third point, huh? My best guess at what you are trying to say is that you are referring to this:On June 11 2024 00:21 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. Okay this actually makes me feel a lot better, since I think rsoul is to me much harder to pin down as mafia than Koshi. For Koshi if he is this bad he is mafia and this view makes him mafia 100%. There is absolutely no way Koshi comes in with fresh eyes, reads the same thread as me and comes to this conclusion. Which isn't just a misinterpretation of sandroba's post but is blatantly ignoring the entire point?
You cannot possibly think this case holds any water whatsoever, much less being the best case in the game?
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Whenever raynpelikoneet posts, I get more convinced he is mafia.
Whenever Koshi posts, I get more convinced he is mafia.
Whenever die_meatbaby posts, I get a little more convinced she is mafia. Just, this doesn't happen very often.
I give up, it's just too obvious, surely it can't be right. Someone else figure this out ><
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I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia.
He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him
Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this.
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On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? I don't have a super confident read on sandroba or anything but currently he is being voted by the people in the game I find most suspicious. This makes me very incentivized to keep him alive. He's been low activity/involvement, but that alone doesn't make him mafia imo.
You said that he has townreads early, some people value their early townreads, it's a playstyle thing. I will note however that sandroba didn't say he was townreading AlphaZero, just that he liked the point that AlphaZero made. I will note however that the final post of these "townreads" was post #283.
By this point, your townread rsoultin said she liked where Vivax's head was at, and that she liked AlphaZero. I don't consider three to be significantly more than two, especially since sandroba was posting at a later point in the game, where there was more that happened. Basically though what I am getting at is that early townreads aren't atypical at all. For example, when rsoultin came back she almost immediately said I looked good (post #343).
I don't think Mocsta is a power role, or if he is, it's definitely not because of his post about jailkeeping Oatsmaster or whatever he said. I don't see any reasons that you have given for Mocsta to be mafia outside of associations with sandroba (who I don't really think is mafia) and him saying he is a power role (which I don't believe). If you have other reasons, please let me know.
If you are town, I'm going to need some help to see it so we can lynch Koshi and/or raynpelikoneet here. Or heck, even someone else if there is good reason.
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Scott31337, I believe you are seriously scum-siding right now. You are literally voting with the three most suspicious people in the game IMO.
Just saying, maybe you should reconsider.
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On June 11 2024 06:45 Koshi wrote:
Tfrel I hope you are town. This is so beautiful. Why would you hope I am town? From your perspective, I'm completely and thoroughly wrong? Wouldn't it be much easier for you if I am mafia?
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Good luck with that hope
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On June 11 2024 06:51 Koshi wrote:No I meant that I see you are town but just wrong. I don't think this is another charade. It makes the game great. You will snap out of it. Oh, sure. If there are reasons to think otherwise I will react accordingly
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On June 11 2024 07:06 Koshi wrote:
I think our side is more united but we are less in numbers. Exciting! Your side has more alignments in it
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Sorry I don't really have much to say. I think the arguments are out there and I can't really say anything more to add, they're about as strong as they can be. Just waiting for something to happen I guess.
And taking potshots at Koshi or raynpelikoneet as opportunities present.
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On June 11 2024 07:16 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 07:11 Trfel wrote:
Sorry I don't really have much to say. I think the arguments are out there and I can't really say anything more to add, they're about as strong as they can be. Just waiting for something to happen I guess.
And taking potshots at Koshi or raynpelikoneet as opportunities present. this is about Scott right? No actually. Just in general.
I haven't lost hope quite yet.
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Yes, die_meatbaby, I looked at the post you quoted when I made my post. I've seen it already, that was what I was responding to.
I don't think it's valid to scumread Mocsta because he is mafia with sandroba. If sandroba flips mafia, then maybe you have a case. Until then, you don't know if sandroba is mafia, so there is no reason to think Mocsta is mafia.
Raynpelikoneet is mafia because he typically has very strong logical play, but his play here is riddled with blunders and inconsistencies and falsehoods. Case in point, he is voting for sandroba for what he said is the strongest case in the thread, and it's completely false. It's not even a matter of opinion, it's strictly false.
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Yeah I don't want to lynch Vivax.
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On June 11 2024 09:12 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 08:49 Mocsta wrote:
Az
To confirm your considering a grouping of
((Rayn/koshi); scott: (dmb / altm lurker)? Im dropping scott for now, I think its pretty clear that I am missing something, because all my big town reads think he is town. (trfel/marv) I like oats as mafia if im being really open and honest. he seems to be flying under the radar a bit too much I dunno, I'm a huge sucker for gambler's fallacy.
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On June 11 2024 09:21 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 09:12 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 08:49 Mocsta wrote:
Az
To confirm your considering a grouping of
((Rayn/koshi); scott: (dmb / altm lurker)? Im dropping scott for now, I think its pretty clear that I am missing something, because all my big town reads think he is town. (trfel/marv) I like oats as mafia if im being really open and honest. he seems to be flying under the radar a bit too much cool Scott is looking better to me. Glad there is alignment there to not focus today on Scott. I still like the vivax lynch and there does appear to be resistance today from the bottom end of the group which to me is much different build up to kelsier. I will vote rayn if there is enough for majority Oats. I'm still giving a town pass today although he is progressively coming across to me as shitting the thread. I want to give benefit of the doubt he's as lost as me and is equally a provocative style player. I’d also lynch Rayn. Trfel what you think of a Rayn lynch? I'm willing to lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi. It's hard for me to figure out which lynch is best.
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On June 11 2024 09:28 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 09:25 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 09:21 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 09:12 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 08:49 Mocsta wrote:
Az
To confirm your considering a grouping of
((Rayn/koshi); scott: (dmb / altm lurker)? Im dropping scott for now, I think its pretty clear that I am missing something, because all my big town reads think he is town. (trfel/marv) I like oats as mafia if im being really open and honest. he seems to be flying under the radar a bit too much cool Scott is looking better to me. Glad there is alignment there to not focus today on Scott. I still like the vivax lynch and there does appear to be resistance today from the bottom end of the group which to me is much different build up to kelsier. I will vote rayn if there is enough for majority Oats. I'm still giving a town pass today although he is progressively coming across to me as shitting the thread. I want to give benefit of the doubt he's as lost as me and is equally a provocative style player. I’d also lynch Rayn. Trfel what you think of a Rayn lynch? I'm willing to lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi. It's hard for me to figure out which lynch is best. I’m also fine with all that. But I’m relying on your analysis to be honest. That being said I’d prefer to try the harder lynches now while your still alive. I am kinda giving up due to frustration and insanity. I can't figure out which lynch is best, and they're all coming off incredibly scummy. But it's unlikely they are all mafia, next to impossible, it's never ever so simple.
Then there's the kicker that even if we figure it out we probably don't have the support. But oh well.
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How am I not working with you?
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I mean sure, sometimes I've been ignoring you because you're insufferable and impossible to work with, but I'd definitely put that on you, not me. I can see that being debatable I suppose.
Is there anything in particular you want/expect me to work with you on? I'm not going to lynch sandroba. Not only are your reasons either incomprehensible or awful, but I'm voting for a really scummy person with the town leaders who I have to assume, are town, and the other wagon has all of the scummiest people in the game. I'm just not switching, absolutely no way.
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Honestly I'm tempted to lynch Oatsmaster for being the most anti-town player this game, regardless of alignment.
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On June 11 2024 13:20 Oatsmaster wrote:Okay fine, sell me on the koshi/rayn partnership. From what I can tell reading your filter, you do think Sandro is mafia independently of anyone else, you just don’t think so atm because koshi and Rayn are going after him No, I don't think there is much reason to suspect sandroba. The only reason is that he has been low activity/involvement. I could see him being mafia, but when that's the only reason, and there are strong reasons to suspect other people, I'm much, much more inclined to look somewhere else. The fact that his wagon is all the scummiest people in the game seals the deal.
If the game weren't in such a rough state, I'd like to think more about sandroba. As it is, he's one of the few players providing any sanity to the game, and there are a lot of people I think are more suspicious than he is. In addition to the likelihood of him being town, I feel forced to hope that he is town, because I think we absolutely need sandroba to be town to have a chance at winning this game.On June 11 2024 13:20 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 13:19 Trfel wrote:
Honestly I'm tempted to lynch Oatsmaster for being the most anti-town player this game, regardless of alignment. This is the exact opposite of working with people btw just you know for your information My impression of your play is that whenever you are around, you're bullying townies out of the thread and preventing any discussion. If that's working with people to you, idk.
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I don't know for sure if raynpelikoneet and Koshi are mafia together, I don't like to work with unflipped associations. But there are plenty of reasons to scumread them individually, and I see no reason they couldn't be mafia together.
Raynpelikoneet has been extremely illogical and useless. He's been discussing a ton but not showing any insight, critical thinking, or desire to solve the game. His town play is quite strong, this clearly isn't it. Other than sheer post count, I can't think of a redeeming quality in his play.
Koshi has been solid at times, but I think he really gave himself up in the confusion over the Vivax lynch and then not lynching Vivax. He's just said enough things that make no sense.
I guess maybe this makes me more confident in raynpelikoneet being mafia, but I still think Koshi definitely could be mafia.
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On June 10 2024 07:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 07:00 Koshi wrote:
Sandro, Slam, Mocsta
(AZ instead of Mocsta but only because so many of you say it, they are not mafia together) can you help me why sandro? On June 10 2024 07:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i am sorry guys i dont see it, aside from him being away...
why? On June 10 2024 07:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:he was really townie when he was in thread tbh And then...On June 10 2024 07:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax go with me on sandroba, mocsta, az, ok? On June 10 2024 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 08:04 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 07:55 Trfel wrote:
Honestly my first impression is that Vivax and die_meatbaby are trying to distance from each other.
Could be that just one of them is mafia, or I guess maybe that neither is mafia, but I think both could also be mafia. I have reason to think they both (individually, separately) could be mafia, and very little reason to think otherwise.
Just seems like the most plausible explanation is one (or even both) of them decided to try and clutter the thread to defend themselves/distract from the actual arguments against them. i literally adviced them to do so, if you didnt catch that? Why are you making this argument? If you have to blame anyone, blame me for their "show"... @raynpelikoneet, I disagree that sandroba's posting was great when he was here. It was.... okay at best imo? But I don't think there's anything special about it. That doesn't mean he has to be mafia, but a lack of interesting or insightful thoughts, combined with nonexistent activity/involvement, is a reasonable case. i didn't say great. and i can't say he looks townie now when not posting. noone can. If you think sandroba is mafia, go ahead. I am just talking about what i know when people were posting. What? Maybe I phrased it poorly. What I meant was, it seems like they are both mafia, and realized that they're associating too closely and "fought" to try and change that. I know that's unflipped association, but it was my first thought.* If you really want to say that they did this due to your advice, I mean sure, I can lynch you after them *Asterisk means: as I thought about it more, I still think that the argument makes sense if only one of them is mafia, baiting the other one into the argument but overall accomplishing the purpose of cluttering the thread and distracting from the actual arguments at hand. Didn't you say sandroba's posting looked good or towny or something more positive? I forget the exact word. I wouldn't really attribute anything positive to it though, it felt solidly meh/null range. I was just bring it up since I think sandroba is very much worth considering, and you and marvellosity are the ones I think might benefit from reconsidering it. I dont think they are both mafia. I think sandroba is worth considering. Also, can anyone possibly believe this?On June 11 2024 05:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 05:39 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 05:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I should be on computer in somewhat 30mins.
Let it be known i already told AZ 6 hours ago i dont think case on vivax is strong. Vivax teaction to case wss also townie. I can write why the case is not hood an see how many people will still stick there. Don't bother, I can't imagine Vivax getting lynched. Is there any reason why I should think you are town? I made the best case anyone has this game. Can raynpelikoneet actually think that this:On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Is the best case in the game?
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On June 11 2024 13:43 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:33 Trfel wrote:
I'm okayish with sandroba for now, honestly (as in, I am not confident enough that he is mafia to lynch him as opposed for waiting to see more from him). Trfel what changed your mind about Sandro from this post to the most recent one you made where you said he’s actually been very sane Nothing? I think pretty much the same?
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On June 11 2024 13:52 Oatsmaster wrote:That’s not what you’ve been saying this whole game though?
On June 10 2024 09:36 Trfel wrote:
Watch List
(...)
sandroba: lack of activity/involvement
(...)
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On June 11 2024 13:53 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 13:43 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 07:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 07:00 Koshi wrote:
Sandro, Slam, Mocsta
(AZ instead of Mocsta but only because so many of you say it, they are not mafia together) can you help me why sandro? On June 10 2024 07:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i am sorry guys i dont see it, aside from him being away...
why? On June 10 2024 07:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:he was really townie when he was in thread tbh And then... On June 10 2024 07:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax go with me on sandroba, mocsta, az, ok? On June 10 2024 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 08:04 Trfel wrote:On June 10 2024 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 07:55 Trfel wrote:
Honestly my first impression is that Vivax and die_meatbaby are trying to distance from each other.
Could be that just one of them is mafia, or I guess maybe that neither is mafia, but I think both could also be mafia. I have reason to think they both (individually, separately) could be mafia, and very little reason to think otherwise.
Just seems like the most plausible explanation is one (or even both) of them decided to try and clutter the thread to defend themselves/distract from the actual arguments against them. i literally adviced them to do so, if you didnt catch that? Why are you making this argument? If you have to blame anyone, blame me for their "show"... @raynpelikoneet, I disagree that sandroba's posting was great when he was here. It was.... okay at best imo? But I don't think there's anything special about it. That doesn't mean he has to be mafia, but a lack of interesting or insightful thoughts, combined with nonexistent activity/involvement, is a reasonable case. i didn't say great. and i can't say he looks townie now when not posting. noone can. If you think sandroba is mafia, go ahead. I am just talking about what i know when people were posting. What? Maybe I phrased it poorly. What I meant was, it seems like they are both mafia, and realized that they're associating too closely and "fought" to try and change that. I know that's unflipped association, but it was my first thought.* If you really want to say that they did this due to your advice, I mean sure, I can lynch you after them *Asterisk means: as I thought about it more, I still think that the argument makes sense if only one of them is mafia, baiting the other one into the argument but overall accomplishing the purpose of cluttering the thread and distracting from the actual arguments at hand. Didn't you say sandroba's posting looked good or towny or something more positive? I forget the exact word. I wouldn't really attribute anything positive to it though, it felt solidly meh/null range. I was just bring it up since I think sandroba is very much worth considering, and you and marvellosity are the ones I think might benefit from reconsidering it. I dont think they are both mafia. I think sandroba is worth considering. Also, can anyone possibly believe this? On June 11 2024 05:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 05:39 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 05:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I should be on computer in somewhat 30mins.
Let it be known i already told AZ 6 hours ago i dont think case on vivax is strong. Vivax teaction to case wss also townie. I can write why the case is not hood an see how many people will still stick there. Don't bother, I can't imagine Vivax getting lynched. Is there any reason why I should think you are town? I made the best case anyone has this game. Can raynpelikoneet actually think that this: On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Is the best case in the game? Not really sure why rayn being an huge egoist is a scumtell tbh What about raynpelikoneet being unable to construct a rational thought?
Do you actually think that raynpelikoneet, as town, could actually believe that case has any merit?
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On June 11 2024 13:56 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:04 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Middle point is actually very interesting. Good find. Okay nvm I did think you talked about Sandro more than this post in more specific terms but why is this a good point at the time of the post and no longer a good point? I looked into this more later, when raynpelikoneet did his whole "best case in the thread" thing, and realized that this argument is based on a misinterpretation of sandroba's post.On June 11 2024 05:59 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Okay, lemme break down the best case in the game. First point, you even say isn't bad in and of itself. Second point, I thought made sense, upon rereading sandroba's filter though that's not what he is saying. Sandroba's post #2446 means that he thinks Oatsmaster can't be mafia if rsoultin/Koshi is town. He just said it in a weird way. Then, separately, he thinks Oatsmaster is town. At a glance you can maybe see it as sandroba thinking that if rsoultin/Koshi is mafia, Oatsmaster is mafia, but I really really don't think that is what sandroba is saying. Third point, huh? My best guess at what you are trying to say is that you are referring to this: Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 00:21 sandroba wrote:On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. Okay this actually makes me feel a lot better, since I think rsoul is to me much harder to pin down as mafia than Koshi. For Koshi if he is this bad he is mafia and this view makes him mafia 100%. There is absolutely no way Koshi comes in with fresh eyes, reads the same thread as me and comes to this conclusion. Which isn't just a misinterpretation of sandroba's post but is blatantly ignoring the entire point? You cannot possibly think this case holds any water whatsoever, much less being the best case in the game?
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Do you think we have the numbers?
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On June 11 2024 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 13:58 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 13:56 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 03:04 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Middle point is actually very interesting. Good find. Okay nvm I did think you talked about Sandro more than this post in more specific terms but why is this a good point at the time of the post and no longer a good point? I looked into this more later, when raynpelikoneet did his whole "best case in the thread" thing, and realized that this argument is based on a misinterpretation of sandroba's post. On June 11 2024 05:59 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Okay, lemme break down the best case in the game. First point, you even say isn't bad in and of itself. Second point, I thought made sense, upon rereading sandroba's filter though that's not what he is saying. Sandroba's post #2446 means that he thinks Oatsmaster can't be mafia if rsoultin/Koshi is town. He just said it in a weird way. Then, separately, he thinks Oatsmaster is town. At a glance you can maybe see it as sandroba thinking that if rsoultin/Koshi is mafia, Oatsmaster is mafia, but I really really don't think that is what sandroba is saying. Third point, huh? My best guess at what you are trying to say is that you are referring to this: On June 11 2024 00:21 sandroba wrote:On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. Okay this actually makes me feel a lot better, since I think rsoul is to me much harder to pin down as mafia than Koshi. For Koshi if he is this bad he is mafia and this view makes him mafia 100%. There is absolutely no way Koshi comes in with fresh eyes, reads the same thread as me and comes to this conclusion. Which isn't just a misinterpretation of sandroba's post but is blatantly ignoring the entire point? You cannot possibly think this case holds any water whatsoever, much less being the best case in the game? I really don’t get what the accuracy of the statement has to do with rayns alignment. The fact that when sandroba and I explained it, he didn't change his view at all?
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Honestly we need to think about possible outs here.On June 11 2024 09:55 Grackaroni wrote:
Day Two Vote Count
sandroba (5); raynpelikoneet, Koshi, Scott31337, Oatsmaster, die_meatbaby
die_meatbaby (3): Trfel, sandroba, AlphaZero
Vivax (2): Trfel, AlphaZero, Scott31337, Koshi, Mocsta, Alakaslam, die_meatbaby
Koshi (1): Vivax, sandroba
scott31337 (0): Vivax
With 5 votes, sandroba is currently set to be lynched!
The deadline is Wednesday, Jun 12 2:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
Looks like Alakaslam isn't playing anymore, unfortunately. This means that unless someone moves their vote from sandroba, sandroba is going to be lynched.
This greatly restricts our lynch options. In fact, I don't think this gives us any alternative lynches at all. I guess our goal therefore has to be to either:
1. convince someone from the sandroba wagon to switch votes
or
2. provide so much evidence that even with mafia getting a (presumably) free mislynch here, they are incriminated allowing us to lynch 3 mafia in a row
Unfortunately it doesn't seem very realistic to win against five mafia :/ ah well.
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Can we like take a vote to concede?
I think not having Alakaslam's vote is the nail in the coffin. If he was still around there'd at least be hope to get Mocsta and Alakaslam on board, without, why even bother?
I mean I guess I could just stop posting, but I don't know if I have the self control.
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On June 11 2024 14:28 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 14:19 Trfel wrote:Honestly we need to think about possible outs here. On June 11 2024 09:55 Grackaroni wrote:
Day Two Vote Count
sandroba (5); raynpelikoneet, Koshi, Scott31337, Oatsmaster, die_meatbaby
die_meatbaby (3): Trfel, sandroba, AlphaZero
Vivax (2): Trfel, AlphaZero, Scott31337, Koshi, Mocsta, Alakaslam, die_meatbaby
Koshi (1): Vivax, sandroba
scott31337 (0): Vivax
With 5 votes, sandroba is currently set to be lynched!
The deadline is Wednesday, Jun 12 2:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
Looks like Alakaslam isn't playing anymore, unfortunately. This means that unless someone moves their vote from sandroba, sandroba is going to be lynched. This greatly restricts our lynch options. In fact, I don't think this gives us any alternative lynches at all. I guess our goal therefore has to be to either: 1. convince someone from the sandroba wagon to switch votes or 2. provide so much evidence that even with mafia getting a (presumably) free mislynch here, they are incriminated allowing us to lynch 3 mafia in a row Unfortunately it doesn't seem very realistic to win against five mafia :/ ah well. Correct me if I’m wrong This is assuming no blue actions Currently its 8-3 town-mafia After n2, it will be 6-3 town mafia After n3 it will be 4-3 town mafia. Even if Sandro is town, we still get 1 more mislynch to lylo. Why the doom and gloom? Hm, I thought tomorrow was LYLO. Point taken.
This only applies if Alakaslam is replaced (unlikely) or is mafia, though. If he's town, a 4v3 without Alakaslam's vote is game over.
Even if Alakaslam is mafia or replaced, you think it's reasonable for town, minus the best two players, to unite and lynch three mafia in a row when people are not listening in the slightest? It doesn't matter how obvious we make it, if people aren't going to listen it doesn't matter how good your argument is.
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On June 11 2024 14:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I mean like I just don’t understand the ego here.
We both think trfel and Scott are town. We obviously think ourselves are town. Both of dmb and Sandro are voting each other.
The only contentious people are rayn/koshi v vivax
You're completely ignoring the quality of the arguments on both sides.
We've put forward tons of strong reasons to suspect many people on the sandroba wagon.
In contrast, the sandroba voters have pointed out that he has a three page filter.
Some things just aren't equal.
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On June 11 2024 14:37 Mocsta wrote:
im swapping my vote to Rayn
##Unvote
##Vote: Raynpelikoneet Okay, I'll swap votes too. Might as well try.
Without someone switching it won't happen though.
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On June 11 2024 14:43 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 14:38 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 14:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I mean like I just don’t understand the ego here.
We both think trfel and Scott are town. We obviously think ourselves are town. Both of dmb and Sandro are voting each other.
The only contentious people are rayn/koshi v vivax
You're completely ignoring the quality of the arguments on both sides. We've put forward tons of strong reasons to suspect many people on the sandroba wagon. In contrast, the sandroba voters have pointed out that he has a three page filter. Some things just aren't equal. You are completely ignoring the “my wagon is much more pure” I'm not going to defend every single word AlphaZero says. If you think he's mafia, you can say why. If not, then I don't know why you are doing this.
I think he's frustrated. There's plenty of reason to be frustrated. I'm not going to critique the littlest things that don't matter.
In all honesty.....
Should we lynch scott31337? Do we have the numbers? It might be better than lynching sandroba here, if it's possible.
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On June 11 2024 14:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
Idk man trfel you were chomping at the bit to lynch vivax this morning. He’s on the dmb wagon too. Maybe try reading a little? Just a little?
I'm actually serious, if we are able to lynch scott31337 here and keep sandroba alive, I think that's absolutely worth doing.
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I'm sorry everyone, I just can't play with Oatsmaster anymore. Best of luck.
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On May 24 2024 10:50 Grackaroni wrote:
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
(...)
[*] Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
(...) I seem to have found a loophole, I can apparently get myself modkilled as long as it doesn't help my team.
Side note, curious if we are enforcing this:On May 24 2024 10:50 Grackaroni wrote:
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
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On June 11 2024 15:24 Oatsmaster wrote:
Okay let me reset because clearly this isn’t the way that any game should go.
I apologize for any of the posts I’ve made that are inflammatory and not relevant to the game/solving mafia.
I totally understand if your experience hasn’t been good and I am sorry about that.
Going forward I just want to have fun and enjoy playing mafia and I hope to foster an environment that it will be possible to have fun, win or lose I'm sorry too, it's largely my fault, unfortunately some out of game stuff happened right after the start of the game and I don't want to talk about it or use it as an excuse but it's just really hard for me to have the patience that I need to. I'm trying as hard as I can to be patient but I'm not meeting the standards I would like to.
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I'll do my best to try and play a little more, but I'm going to need to make a change or two.
Oatsmaster, I apologize in advance if I ignore any of your questions. I will do my best to be patient and interact in a civil manner but if I need to stop talking to preserve my sanity, I will do so.
It's obvious but to clarify, you (and anyone else) have every right to disagree with me, and I'm sorry if in my frustration it has come across as otherwise.
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If you want to lynch sandroba that's fine I guess, I can't stop you. I don't really think he is mafia but I acknowledge that his lack of activity isn't great and I am not certain he is town. If he flips mafia, then great, if not, I guess we can try and make the most of it.
It looks like the best alternative is raynpelikoneet. I've presented my arguments, I can try and restate them so that they make more sense but I don't think it would make a huge difference. If people don't agree then so be it.
Hopefully I am wrong or we can figure things out later. I don't think there is anything meaningful I can do to try and change the lynch, so unless that changes, I guess I might as well wait and see what happens and then act accordingly.
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On June 11 2024 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 13:58 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 13:56 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 03:04 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Middle point is actually very interesting. Good find. Okay nvm I did think you talked about Sandro more than this post in more specific terms but why is this a good point at the time of the post and no longer a good point? I looked into this more later, when raynpelikoneet did his whole "best case in the thread" thing, and realized that this argument is based on a misinterpretation of sandroba's post. On June 11 2024 05:59 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Okay, lemme break down the best case in the game. First point, you even say isn't bad in and of itself. Second point, I thought made sense, upon rereading sandroba's filter though that's not what he is saying. Sandroba's post #2446 means that he thinks Oatsmaster can't be mafia if rsoultin/Koshi is town. He just said it in a weird way. Then, separately, he thinks Oatsmaster is town. At a glance you can maybe see it as sandroba thinking that if rsoultin/Koshi is mafia, Oatsmaster is mafia, but I really really don't think that is what sandroba is saying. Third point, huh? My best guess at what you are trying to say is that you are referring to this: On June 11 2024 00:21 sandroba wrote:On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. Okay this actually makes me feel a lot better, since I think rsoul is to me much harder to pin down as mafia than Koshi. For Koshi if he is this bad he is mafia and this view makes him mafia 100%. There is absolutely no way Koshi comes in with fresh eyes, reads the same thread as me and comes to this conclusion. Which isn't just a misinterpretation of sandroba's post but is blatantly ignoring the entire point? You cannot possibly think this case holds any water whatsoever, much less being the best case in the game? I really don’t get what the accuracy of the statement has to do with rayns alignment. I guess I can go back and respond to this. If you don't agree that's fine but I'll try.
It's totally understandable for someone to misinterpret something and make a wrong claim and realize it and retract their claim. This isn't what raynpelikoneet did. When sandroba and I pointed out that he was misreading sandroba's post, instead of changing his view, raynpelikoneet modified his argument. See here:On June 11 2024 06:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
If sandroba thinks rsoultin is mafia and Oats is town, there is simply no reason to say Oats can be mafia with rsoultin. Raynpelikoneet's initial argument:
- Sandroba said that if rsoultin/Koshi is mafia, Oatsmaster could be mafia (implying this is more likely). Then, sandroba said he thinks rsoultin/Koshi is mafia, but didn't think Oatsmaster is mafia
Becomes:
- Sandroba said a pointless association read, it's pointless because it only matters if someone is town, and sandroba thinks that person is mafia
The latter isn't wrong, but it's a much weaker argument. However, this change did not affect raynpelikoneet's read on sandroba or his confidence in this case. Town in this spot would re-evaluate given the new information.
Note that raynpelikoneet's third point is literally nonsense. Sandroba said "I have no idea how to read rsoultin so it helps that Koshi replaced in, here are the reasons Koshi is mafia: (reasons)" and took that to mean "Koshi is mafia because I have no idea how to read rsoultin" which is simply not what sandroba said?
The end result is you have a three point case where raynpelikoneet literally said the first point doesn't mean anything on its own, the second point is quite weak, and the third point is objectively not true. But raynpelikoneet still believes it, very strongly, after being shown these things.
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On June 11 2024 16:16 Koshi wrote:
Ahno you understand it. You just dont think it is good. Do you think it is good still?
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On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Gonna quote this one more time for clarity.
First paragraph, he literally says in the second paragraph that it doesn't make sandroba mafia. If you choose to interpret this point as being strong, I can't stop you, but I don't think it is very strong, and raynpelikoneet doesn't, either. I don't even really think it's true tbh, but that's more subjective and I don't feel like arguing about it.
Second paragraph I discussed a few posts previously.
Third paragraph I discussed a few posts previously.
Note that this is the reasoning that raynpelikoneet is using to explain his vote on sandroba. And raynpelikoneet was defending sandroba not long before! So this reasoning has to be strong enough to make sandroba the most suspicious person, and also override his previous town lean/town read on sandroba.
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Raynpelikoneet, I agree that it doesn't make sense for sandroba to post that. I'm not arguing that.
I'm wondering how you can think this is an indication that sandroba is mafia?
It's fairly common for people to post any and all associatice reads they think of, even if they don't match their current game view. I personally don't think this is helpful, but I acknowledge that other people do it anyway. So how is it super incriminating when sandroba does it?
Also, even if I were to agree with you on this point, I believe your first point to be weak (you admitted this already) and your third point to be nonsense, as I have described. As a result, I think your case is very weak, even if I were to agree on the second point, which I don't.
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On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? No, we clearly do not all agree on this? If we agreed, we would be lynching sandroba instead of looking for alternatives?
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@raynpelilkoneet:
I'm sorry for upsetting you. That was not my intention.
I'm just trying to understand your case, and right now I am struggling to do so.
If you'd like to discuss this further, please feel free to explain where I am misunderstanding you, and I will do my best to listen. Otherwise, I am fine to agree to disagree. I'm not trying to misrepresent you, just to get a clear idea of what you are saying.
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On June 11 2024 16:39 Koshi wrote:
Tfrel bro.
It is impossible all mafia is in Koshi rayn dmb and Oats.
If you think 3/4 are you are still in one of the most unique situations in mafia history. No mafia team ever pushes like this.
So more likely it is 2/4 and the 2 townies in Koshi rayn dmb and Oats found the third mafia. No offense, but Koshi, have you read the thread? I am well aware of this and said this here:On June 11 2024 09:33 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 09:28 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:25 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 09:21 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 09:12 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 08:49 Mocsta wrote:
Az
To confirm your considering a grouping of
((Rayn/koshi); scott: (dmb / altm lurker)? Im dropping scott for now, I think its pretty clear that I am missing something, because all my big town reads think he is town. (trfel/marv) I like oats as mafia if im being really open and honest. he seems to be flying under the radar a bit too much cool Scott is looking better to me. Glad there is alignment there to not focus today on Scott. I still like the vivax lynch and there does appear to be resistance today from the bottom end of the group which to me is much different build up to kelsier. I will vote rayn if there is enough for majority Oats. I'm still giving a town pass today although he is progressively coming across to me as shitting the thread. I want to give benefit of the doubt he's as lost as me and is equally a provocative style player. I’d also lynch Rayn. Trfel what you think of a Rayn lynch? I'm willing to lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi. It's hard for me to figure out which lynch is best. I’m also fine with all that. But I’m relying on your analysis to be honest. That being said I’d prefer to try the harder lynches now while your still alive. I am kinda giving up due to frustration and insanity. I can't figure out which lynch is best, and they're all coming off incredibly scummy. But it's unlikely they are all mafia, next to impossible, it's never ever so simple. Then there's the kicker that even if we figure it out we probably don't have the support. But oh well.
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On June 11 2024 16:46 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 16:44 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 16:39 Koshi wrote:
Tfrel bro.
It is impossible all mafia is in Koshi rayn dmb and Oats.
If you think 3/4 are you are still in one of the most unique situations in mafia history. No mafia team ever pushes like this.
So more likely it is 2/4 and the 2 townies in Koshi rayn dmb and Oats found the third mafia. No offense, but Koshi, have you read the thread? I am well aware of this and said this here: On June 11 2024 09:33 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 09:28 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:25 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 09:21 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 09:12 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 08:49 Mocsta wrote:
Az
To confirm your considering a grouping of
((Rayn/koshi); scott: (dmb / altm lurker)? Im dropping scott for now, I think its pretty clear that I am missing something, because all my big town reads think he is town. (trfel/marv) I like oats as mafia if im being really open and honest. he seems to be flying under the radar a bit too much cool Scott is looking better to me. Glad there is alignment there to not focus today on Scott. I still like the vivax lynch and there does appear to be resistance today from the bottom end of the group which to me is much different build up to kelsier. I will vote rayn if there is enough for majority Oats. I'm still giving a town pass today although he is progressively coming across to me as shitting the thread. I want to give benefit of the doubt he's as lost as me and is equally a provocative style player. I’d also lynch Rayn. Trfel what you think of a Rayn lynch? I'm willing to lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi. It's hard for me to figure out which lynch is best. I’m also fine with all that. But I’m relying on your analysis to be honest. That being said I’d prefer to try the harder lynches now while your still alive. I am kinda giving up due to frustration and insanity. I can't figure out which lynch is best, and they're all coming off incredibly scummy. But it's unlikely they are all mafia, next to impossible, it's never ever so simple. Then there's the kicker that even if we figure it out we probably don't have the support. But oh well. Yes. But the part that the townies in that list have a brain and are also trying to solve the game is lost on you. You were rude to Oats. You are doomsday posting because we dont exactly think like you do. While if Sandroba is mafia. We are presenting you the full solution to the game and you repay us with talking about conceding. Not fun bro What?
I was impatient and rude with Oatsmaster. I apologized, and I will try to do better. For what it's worth, he wasn't particularly kind to me either.
I'm well aware that town players can think differently and have different conclusions than me. This is why I have been working to figure out who is mafia and who isn't. For example, I've reached out to die_meatbaby multiple times to try and understand where she is coming from, and if she is town, to try and realize that. She has generally not responded. I know I got frustrated with Oatsmaster, but this wasn't due to the fact that he was disagreeing with me, it was the way he was doing so, with constant comments seemingly trying to get under my skin. I'm not proud of this by an means, but you can't say it's the same as getting mad at someone for simply disagreeing.
I'm not really sorry for getting discouraged? Nothing against Alakaslam at all, stuff happens, but if he's town, that puts us in a really rough spot. When you combine the missing vote with the lack of logic and the antagonizing chip shots, it's pretty darn discouraging.
At the same time, I have a right to play the game and try to find mafia, and a part of that is trying to figure out what is right and what isn't. I don't mean to be insulting to anyone, or frustrating to anyone, but at the same time, if someone says something that I think is wrong, I have a right to say so. Just as anyone else has a right to say so if I say something they think is wrong. It's a two way street.
Yes, I've been far from perfect. But your post above is quite the mischaracterization of my play.
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On June 11 2024 17:09 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:04 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 16:46 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 16:44 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 16:39 Koshi wrote:
Tfrel bro.
It is impossible all mafia is in Koshi rayn dmb and Oats.
If you think 3/4 are you are still in one of the most unique situations in mafia history. No mafia team ever pushes like this.
So more likely it is 2/4 and the 2 townies in Koshi rayn dmb and Oats found the third mafia. No offense, but Koshi, have you read the thread? I am well aware of this and said this here: On June 11 2024 09:33 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 09:28 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:25 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 09:21 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 09:12 AlphaZero wrote:
[quote]
Im dropping scott for now, I think its pretty clear that I am missing something, because all my big town reads think he is town. (trfel/marv)
I like oats as mafia if im being really open and honest. he seems to be flying under the radar a bit too much cool Scott is looking better to me. Glad there is alignment there to not focus today on Scott. I still like the vivax lynch and there does appear to be resistance today from the bottom end of the group which to me is much different build up to kelsier. I will vote rayn if there is enough for majority Oats. I'm still giving a town pass today although he is progressively coming across to me as shitting the thread. I want to give benefit of the doubt he's as lost as me and is equally a provocative style player. I’d also lynch Rayn. Trfel what you think of a Rayn lynch? I'm willing to lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi. It's hard for me to figure out which lynch is best. I’m also fine with all that. But I’m relying on your analysis to be honest. That being said I’d prefer to try the harder lynches now while your still alive. I am kinda giving up due to frustration and insanity. I can't figure out which lynch is best, and they're all coming off incredibly scummy. But it's unlikely they are all mafia, next to impossible, it's never ever so simple. Then there's the kicker that even if we figure it out we probably don't have the support. But oh well. Yes. But the part that the townies in that list have a brain and are also trying to solve the game is lost on you. You were rude to Oats. You are doomsday posting because we dont exactly think like you do. While if Sandroba is mafia. We are presenting you the full solution to the game and you repay us with talking about conceding. Not fun bro What? I was impatient and rude with Oatsmaster. I apologized, and I will try to do better. For what it's worth, he wasn't particularly kind to me either. I'm well aware that town players can think differently and have different conclusions than me. This is why I have been working to figure out who is mafia and who isn't. For example, I've reached out to die_meatbaby multiple times to try and understand where she is coming from, and if she is town, to try and realize that. She has generally not responded. I know I got frustrated with Oatsmaster, but this wasn't due to the fact that he was disagreeing with me, it was the way he was doing so, with constant comments seemingly trying to get under my skin. I'm not proud of this by an means, but you can't say it's the same as getting mad at someone for simply disagreeing. I'm not really sorry for getting discouraged? Nothing against Alakaslam at all, stuff happens, but if he's town, that puts us in a really rough spot. When you combine the missing vote with the lack of logic and the antagonizing chip shots, it's pretty darn discouraging. At the same time, I have a right to play the game and try to find mafia, and a part of that is trying to figure out what is right and what isn't. I don't mean to be insulting to anyone, or frustrating to anyone, but at the same time, if someone says something that I think is wrong, I have a right to say so. Just as anyone else has a right to say so if I say something they think is wrong. It's a two way street. Yes, I've been far from perfect. But your post above is quite the mischaracterization of my play. Yes. I was a little snippy snappy because you asked me if I could read. You want me to vote rayn? I'll give you my vote. Okay, that's fair. I apologize.
It was a culmination of frustrations of being asked things I've just said. I know it's natural for people to miss things, I miss things all the time, I just feel like it's been happening a lot this game, almost deliberately, to be obnoxious.
You should vote whoever you think is most likely to flip mafia. I could be wrong. I'm trying to re-evaluate sandroba right now.
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Has anyone else noticed how freaking much Koshi's reads change? Not an issue, just it's hard for me to keep track of.
I guess the real question is if his reads change in a mafia motivated way.
He starts out scumreading marvellosity, Mocsta, and sandroba. And then later drops the scumread on marvellosity. He has townreads on scott31337 and die_meatbaby.
Maybe the first notable part is Koshi's read on Vivax.
+ Show Spoiler [quotes] +On June 10 2024 05:07 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:Vivax+ Show Spoiler +Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. What is the core of your case? You believe town!Vivax should be trying to convince the thread to lynch scott more because his mindset is that scott is sure mafia? The fact Vivax is not doing that makes you think that this is mafia!Vivax faking reads. Because some of the quotes from your previous case felt like it was just Vivax bantering and being at worst apathic about towns capabilities based on previous games and stuff. On June 10 2024 05:10 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 05:03 Trfel wrote:I was really hoping that Vivax would go after me more and give himself away but unfortunately he backed down Does anyone have a reason that Vivax might not be mafia? Because I don't really have reservations tbh, besides potentially activity level. Besides activity I don't have good reasons either. I just clicked filter, saw 8ish pages, and read his doomsday posts with some misplaced enjoyment. On June 10 2024 19:25 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:59 Trfel wrote:die_meatbaby on VivaxOn June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Die_meatbaby's third post of the game. For what it's worth I don't think this is a terribly good way to read Vivax, but I'm curious if die_meatbaby follows this view throughout the game. On June 10 2024 05:31 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 05:20 Vivax wrote:
One cannot not like Koshi.
He‘s the hypno-buddha in the flesh fewer and fewer town points for you. Maybe I have to reread you filter. you are paranoid about RL but not about the game. Thats kinda strange. I don´t like that More posts to a similar effect but I'm running out of time. Now I need to check if Vivax's posting warrants the change but idk if I have time to do so My guess is that it's debatable. Gut feels say look at raynpelikoneet and Vivax most. Sandroba, die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, maybe scott31337 and Oatsmaster after that. No particular order on those. Vivax is just.... so nonsensical? I am really struggling with how he could be town and be like this. I'm honestly willing to give Alakaslam more time when so many otehrs are so sus
##Vote: Vivax On June 10 2024 19:27 Koshi wrote:
I think Tfrel sees the game correctly. I don't see it yet but I sense he could be correct. On June 10 2024 20:43 Koshi wrote:
I am 20000000% town on scott and if somebody calls him mafia I am just going to vote that person.
Like Vivax is. On June 11 2024 03:09 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dont think the case on vivax is not good imo. Idk how everyone is sheeping that?
I will talk about it when i am home. Wanted to talk about it with AZ first but apparently he is awol. The case on Vivax is good enough. Marv said so. On June 11 2024 04:05 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:02 Trfel wrote:
I'm honestly confused at how Koshi can be so upset over this?
The only reason someone should be this upset IMO is if they were extremely invested in seeing Vivax lynched.
With that in mind, why does Koshi think Vivax is mafia? When he voted for Vivax, he quoted one of my posts, presumably as reasoning. However, that was a post about die_meatbaby with a one-liner on Vivax. Koshi also seems to think Vivax is mafia because Vivax thinks scott31337 is mafia.
If Koshi was so certain and invested in Vivax being mafia that he'd get this upset at me backing off of the Vivax pressure, surely he'd have some actual reasons, no? Because I think you had Vivax. On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first?
I think it's quite interesting how Koshi was kinda thinking Vivax was town (or at least soft defending him), then when people started voting for Vivax he also voted for Vivax, then after people backed off of Vivax, he backed off too, and arguably did so for reasons that existed before he voted for Vivax in the first place. This isn't unreasonable to come from town, but it feels...weird? See for example these two posts:On June 11 2024 04:20 Koshi wrote:
Ok Vivax. Let's pretend you transcended and kept so cool under this pressure. Can you explain to me why I was mafia with reasons prior to 2 hours ago? On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first? In the first quote, Koshi is implying that Vivax didn't do well under the pressure. This matches several of Koshi's previous posts. In the second quote, Koshi is backing off of his Vivax scumread. The kicker is that these two posts were made six minutes apart. Maybe Koshi is just like this as town, but it's hard for me not to find this read change suspect when Koshi was stubborn in scumreading Vivax for quite some time, even after I backed off, and then suddenly stopped himself. It feels very convenient.
I think it's also worth looking at Koshi's read progression on raynpelikoneet and die_meatbaby.
+ Show Spoiler [Koshi on raynpelikoneet] +On June 09 2024 14:45 Koshi wrote:
because I townread rayn, and rayn townreads slam, I will not try to read slam and just assume he is town. On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. On June 10 2024 21:11 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 20:53 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. Why? I like how he plays this game. The recent things I dont like: 1) Uncommittal comments to marv about my townread on scott during night. I think rayn still scumreads scott and I dont like how he didn't try to convince marv or me during night and just played along. And then marv died. 2) there was 1 more real thing but I forgot. 3) When I like rayn he is often mafia. Rarely he is mafia when I hate his guts. On June 11 2024 03:13 Koshi wrote:
Anyway.
I habe time for scott but not for other people.
rayn is really weird.
Vivax doesnt know what to do with the Tfrel pressure.
Sandroba is doing more of the same.
They can all get lynched. On June 11 2024 04:36 Koshi wrote:rayn: 1) I miss his insightful comments while talking to me. We have been in the same thread together and when marv and I were becoming BFFs, rayn was pretty much on the sidelines. If he didn't like my scott read I would have wanted him to talk to me about it. If he liked it, I would have loved a insightful comment why I was right. But instead he made a comment at marv about how marv also thought scott was town. Later he made a oneliner he also thought scott was town. 2) He is not interacting with me. Or annoying me to find out my alignment. Or anything. So I don't really understand why you say our interactions are weird, there are almost none. az: I have no clue. His activity was there when i wasn't in the thread. On June 11 2024 05:16 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 05:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yes, dod you reqd anythig i posted during n1? rayn can we be friends and solve the game? sandroba mocsta and slam? What do you think? What is this obsession with AZ On June 11 2024 16:14 Koshi wrote:
rayn can you 100% convince me you are town?
At this point I would switch sides. On June 11 2024 16:34 Koshi wrote:
I dont want to clutter the thread looking for the third.
I think we should keep rayn alive and undisturbed today. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet. On June 11 2024 16:44 Koshi wrote:
If sandrobe becomes town. I am willing to switch rayn. But before that. Never. On June 11 2024 17:07 Koshi wrote:
I think there is max 1 mafia in Vivax, Tfrel, Mocsta and Tfrel. Potentially 0. So if you 4 want rayn, and rayn does not want to come to me and talk to me, I can vote him.
So in the end I have no idea what to make of this. Honestly it reads most like Koshi is just thinking out loud, and the constant and sudden direction changes just come from him changing his mind.
+ Show Spoiler [Koshi on die_meatbaby] +On June 09 2024 14:37 Koshi wrote:
Ok dmb can be worked with. Good. On June 10 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:
I think DMB is town. Just read her filter. On June 11 2024 03:48 Koshi wrote:
Fml. Between DMB and Vivax there is no way dmb is the mafia. On June 11 2024 05:01 Koshi wrote:
DMB shares my reads and calls me supertown.
Hard for me to lynch her. On June 11 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 15:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 15:47 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 11:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:55 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:51 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:46 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:44 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:39 AlphaZero wrote:
[quote]
He either keeps up in activity and analysis or does not. He is famous for being low activity as mafia.
Why is he mafia to you. I agreed with his takes pretty much all the time. This is low activity It is, but he had a IRL excuse. If there is an increase in activity now I think it’s less clear. So again I ask, how does he self resolve? He plays the next phase or two like the last two games he played. Or he doesn't I guarantee you he doesn’t In 2 phases it’s gonna be lylo assuming nothing funky happens and we continue to miss. Can you show me some good posts from Sandro? I’m assuming you don’t think the post I pointed out makes him scummy I assume that this is the question you want me to answer, I generally agree with his thinking and worldviews The post you quoted was weak I agree. I just want to give him some time because I think it will become more clear than this either way. And I think there are good alternatives. Like Rayn/koshi/dmb Unreal. Ok so mafia is split up. rayn/Koshi/dmb has 1 or 2Mocsta/Sandroba has 1 or 2 Slam/Vivax/AZ has 0 or 1 Is that it? And us townies are capable to see 1. And we all have 1 mafia sitting in our ass mretending to be our friend. It is obvious Tfrel is town It is obvious Scott is town It is obvious Oats is town Those 3 are consensus right? Might want to add Vivax but dmb is still unsure. what are you saying here.. that you will vote rayn and/or dmb this cycle? I think DMB. I now fully believe we have mafia we are blind towards, and mafia we cant unsee. And for some reason it is perfectly split between the townies. (Well your team has more townies so that is why I consider our team has 2) On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? On June 11 2024 16:37 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 16:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? IM not sure on Sandro. I think DMB is likely. Yes. Just like we are not sure about DMB. But let's argue which of these 2 is most likely today. Really like the way you guys approached Oats. Except 1-2 adhoms it was enjoyable to read. There is for sure a lot of town in your team. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet.
This read progression is more challenging to understand. From post #2593, where Koshi says it'll be hard for him to lynch die_meatbaby, to post #2964, where Koshi says he would vote for die_meatbaby this cycle, die_meatbaby has four posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? On June 11 2024 06:29 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba I am quite certain Vivax is town and i think you are wrong. How does that go with you? I need more time to read vivax and also to read you On June 11 2024 07:19 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:42 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? I don't have a super confident read on sandroba or anything but currently he is being voted by the people in the game I find most suspicious. This makes me very incentivized to keep him alive. He's been low activity/involvement, but that alone doesn't make him mafia imo. You said that he has townreads early, some people value their early townreads, it's a playstyle thing. I will note however that sandroba didn't say he was townreading AlphaZero, just that he liked the point that AlphaZero made. I will note however that the final post of these "townreads" was post #283. By this point, your townread rsoultin said she liked where Vivax's head was at, and that she liked AlphaZero. I don't consider three to be significantly more than two, especially since sandroba was posting at a later point in the game, where there was more that happened. Basically though what I am getting at is that early townreads aren't atypical at all. For example, when rsoultin came back she almost immediately said I looked good (post #343). I don't think Mocsta is a power role, or if he is, it's definitely not because of his post about jailkeeping Oatsmaster or whatever he said. I don't see any reasons that you have given for Mocsta to be mafia outside of associations with sandroba (who I don't really think is mafia) and him saying he is a power role (which I don't believe). If you have other reasons, please let me know. If you are town, I'm going to need some help to see it so we can lynch Koshi and/or raynpelikoneet here. Or heck, even someone else if there is good reason. Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 21:06 die_meatbaby wrote:rsoultin/koshiEither rsoultin or koshi have not given me reasons to see them as mafia. Koshi is really activ, trying to solve the game here. He has a lot of townreads but he plays still like a Townkoshi would. ScottOn June 07 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:I think scott31337 is probably the most suspicious person to ever play this game. He's just always mafia somehow, even when his role PM says he is town I think you are right also in older games from he looked scummy in his town games. TrflOn June 07 2024 20:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
Trfel spending time and energy to fence sit seems townie to me, I don’t really like how rayn has approached today tbh the buddying trfel smells not good I thought the same thing kinda suspicious, but I think it was nothing. Trfls Filter wouldn´t make so much sense when he would be mafia. I could not see with who he would be togther in a team. For right now I see him as a Townie Sandrobahttps://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?user=sandrobathis is 2 page filter. he comes in the game starts with giving town reads on trfl, rayn, az, kelshier. far too early in the game to make so many reads.Then hitting a bit on scott and just going offline for ever. For me this filter is a red flag but maybe things change when he would start to play here again. IF I am corect with sandro mafia then guys look at this shit and you can call me paranoid but thats something now: Mocsta sandro making a few townreads on the people who were activ in the begining but not on mocsta he didn´t get a read On June 07 2024 23:21 sandroba wrote:
I actually like k3lsier too, 0 fucks given on mocsta interaction, seems very townie to me looks like it's such a safe read that it shouldn't be labeled as town right away so as not to stand out directly as teammates then the next posts felt to me like playing togther On June 08 2024 00:11 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 00:06 sandroba wrote:
Basically if the initial question wasn't fake, definitely what rayn answered is not enough to address the question.
If it is fake you are either doing it to create discussion and you don't really care about it, or you are trying to blend in not create discussion.
If you intension is the former which could be a townie agenda, you wouldn't try to cut it short when you got the discussion going, which was what scott did. It makes more sense it was the latter which points to mafia agenda. yeah I get this now and accept it's the most likely options I was too focused on a third option which is too low odds (i.e. genuine role query) the sandro we never saw sandro again... what happend was Mocasta playing normal and calling out that he is jailkeeper and he will save oats n1 I would just love to understand why he didn't die on the first night. If someone blue called you kill them that night as mafia. Why are you still alive? What did Marv do to get himself killed and not the PR? Are you really blue???? Are you really fucking Town? Or are you playing with sandro? and why jail oats anyway? if you are town why are you saving oats. Why is he so Town to you. Why not Koshi, marv people who are strong town and often die early. Why oats? Or have I already found the team here? this hole thing fucks my head. Either you fuck with me or the mafia, because it doesn´t make sense to me! also in the same time i think VivaxI think I already explained enough why I think he mafia. But this read could change again. He is hell of paranoid but in RL right now not in the game, maybe this leads to a false read but when he is playing like this he is def. mafia in my eyes. Then I have the question again why is oats in this involved if my currents reads would be correct or is oats red and vivax green? I don´t thinks so oats looking more townisch then vivax. I am still unsure how read oats. AZ I don´t have a good feeling with him. Feels like he wann kinda lead Town somewhere, but not in a way that is too conspicuous. Still try to figure out if this is DP or Palmar. But I think it´s someone who I have played with already. No read on him right now Rayn In every fucking game we have played I have read him wrong. He was town i thought mafia and the other way around. I am still to fucking unsure what to think of him right now. In my head kinda scummy so lets say more townisch because I am always wrong with my read on him. Slam to less activ to make a read. It´s anyways always hard to read slam but when he only appears minutes before or after somebody died then I can really not read him AND YOU ALL CAN CALL ME FUCKING PARANOID FOR THIS SANDRO/ MOCSTAR SHIT BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME SHIT GOING ON BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM I already explained here why they are together. I have a hard times to read rayn. Why do you think he is mafla?
It's hard to say if there is anything there that justifies Koshi's read change. If Koshi's mindset/game view changed then this is more understandable, but I don't really think die_meatbaby's play alone can explain it.
In conclusion, I don't know. Does anyone have any ideas?
To me, Koshi's read progressions on Vivax and die_meatbaby feel a bit fake and also convenient, however his read progression on raynpelikoneet comes across as significantly more genuine.
It's hard for me to understand Koshi's approach but that doesn't make him mafia, that just makes him confusing. Koshi, or anyone else, any insight?
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On June 11 2024 17:49 Koshi wrote:
Currently I think it is for 100% sure sandroba. 85% dmb. And then the last I dont know.
I am willing to go to the 85%. In all honesty, can I ask why?
You have the sandroba lynch at your fingertips, why would you give it up for something you think is less likely?
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The thing is, I'm not sold on sandroba being town.
I don't get much of an impression either way from his posts. But there is a distinct lack of them.
I'm...... going to vote for sandroba actually.
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On June 11 2024 17:51 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:48 Trfel wrote:Has anyone else noticed how freaking much Koshi's reads change? Not an issue, just it's hard for me to keep track of. I guess the real question is if his reads change in a mafia motivated way. He starts out scumreading marvellosity, Mocsta, and sandroba. And then later drops the scumread on marvellosity. He has townreads on scott31337 and die_meatbaby. Maybe the first notable part is Koshi's read on Vivax. + Show Spoiler [quotes] +On June 10 2024 05:07 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:Vivax+ Show Spoiler +Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. What is the core of your case? You believe town!Vivax should be trying to convince the thread to lynch scott more because his mindset is that scott is sure mafia? The fact Vivax is not doing that makes you think that this is mafia!Vivax faking reads. Because some of the quotes from your previous case felt like it was just Vivax bantering and being at worst apathic about towns capabilities based on previous games and stuff. On June 10 2024 05:10 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 05:03 Trfel wrote:I was really hoping that Vivax would go after me more and give himself away but unfortunately he backed down Does anyone have a reason that Vivax might not be mafia? Because I don't really have reservations tbh, besides potentially activity level. Besides activity I don't have good reasons either. I just clicked filter, saw 8ish pages, and read his doomsday posts with some misplaced enjoyment. On June 10 2024 19:25 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:59 Trfel wrote:die_meatbaby on VivaxOn June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Die_meatbaby's third post of the game. For what it's worth I don't think this is a terribly good way to read Vivax, but I'm curious if die_meatbaby follows this view throughout the game. On June 10 2024 05:31 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 05:20 Vivax wrote:
One cannot not like Koshi.
He‘s the hypno-buddha in the flesh fewer and fewer town points for you. Maybe I have to reread you filter. you are paranoid about RL but not about the game. Thats kinda strange. I don´t like that More posts to a similar effect but I'm running out of time. Now I need to check if Vivax's posting warrants the change but idk if I have time to do so My guess is that it's debatable. Gut feels say look at raynpelikoneet and Vivax most. Sandroba, die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, maybe scott31337 and Oatsmaster after that. No particular order on those. Vivax is just.... so nonsensical? I am really struggling with how he could be town and be like this. I'm honestly willing to give Alakaslam more time when so many otehrs are so sus
##Vote: Vivax On June 10 2024 19:27 Koshi wrote:
I think Tfrel sees the game correctly. I don't see it yet but I sense he could be correct. On June 10 2024 20:43 Koshi wrote:
I am 20000000% town on scott and if somebody calls him mafia I am just going to vote that person.
Like Vivax is. On June 11 2024 03:09 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dont think the case on vivax is not good imo. Idk how everyone is sheeping that?
I will talk about it when i am home. Wanted to talk about it with AZ first but apparently he is awol. The case on Vivax is good enough. Marv said so. On June 11 2024 04:05 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:02 Trfel wrote:
I'm honestly confused at how Koshi can be so upset over this?
The only reason someone should be this upset IMO is if they were extremely invested in seeing Vivax lynched.
With that in mind, why does Koshi think Vivax is mafia? When he voted for Vivax, he quoted one of my posts, presumably as reasoning. However, that was a post about die_meatbaby with a one-liner on Vivax. Koshi also seems to think Vivax is mafia because Vivax thinks scott31337 is mafia.
If Koshi was so certain and invested in Vivax being mafia that he'd get this upset at me backing off of the Vivax pressure, surely he'd have some actual reasons, no? Because I think you had Vivax. On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first? I think it's quite interesting how Koshi was kinda thinking Vivax was town (or at least soft defending him), then when people started voting for Vivax he also voted for Vivax, then after people backed off of Vivax, he backed off too, and arguably did so for reasons that existed before he voted for Vivax in the first place. This isn't unreasonable to come from town, but it feels...weird? See for example these two posts: On June 11 2024 04:20 Koshi wrote:
Ok Vivax. Let's pretend you transcended and kept so cool under this pressure. Can you explain to me why I was mafia with reasons prior to 2 hours ago? On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first? In the first quote, Koshi is implying that Vivax didn't do well under the pressure. This matches several of Koshi's previous posts. In the second quote, Koshi is backing off of his Vivax scumread. The kicker is that these two posts were made six minutes apart. Maybe Koshi is just like this as town, but it's hard for me not to find this read change suspect when Koshi was stubborn in scumreading Vivax for quite some time, even after I backed off, and then suddenly stopped himself. It feels very convenient. I think it's also worth looking at Koshi's read progression on raynpelikoneet and die_meatbaby. + Show Spoiler [Koshi on raynpelikoneet] +On June 09 2024 14:45 Koshi wrote:
because I townread rayn, and rayn townreads slam, I will not try to read slam and just assume he is town. On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. On June 10 2024 21:11 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 20:53 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. Why? I like how he plays this game. The recent things I dont like: 1) Uncommittal comments to marv about my townread on scott during night. I think rayn still scumreads scott and I dont like how he didn't try to convince marv or me during night and just played along. And then marv died. 2) there was 1 more real thing but I forgot. 3) When I like rayn he is often mafia. Rarely he is mafia when I hate his guts. On June 11 2024 03:13 Koshi wrote:
Anyway.
I habe time for scott but not for other people.
rayn is really weird.
Vivax doesnt know what to do with the Tfrel pressure.
Sandroba is doing more of the same.
They can all get lynched. On June 11 2024 04:36 Koshi wrote:rayn: 1) I miss his insightful comments while talking to me. We have been in the same thread together and when marv and I were becoming BFFs, rayn was pretty much on the sidelines. If he didn't like my scott read I would have wanted him to talk to me about it. If he liked it, I would have loved a insightful comment why I was right. But instead he made a comment at marv about how marv also thought scott was town. Later he made a oneliner he also thought scott was town. 2) He is not interacting with me. Or annoying me to find out my alignment. Or anything. So I don't really understand why you say our interactions are weird, there are almost none. az: I have no clue. His activity was there when i wasn't in the thread. On June 11 2024 05:16 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 05:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yes, dod you reqd anythig i posted during n1? rayn can we be friends and solve the game? sandroba mocsta and slam? What do you think? What is this obsession with AZ On June 11 2024 16:14 Koshi wrote:
rayn can you 100% convince me you are town?
At this point I would switch sides. On June 11 2024 16:34 Koshi wrote:
I dont want to clutter the thread looking for the third.
I think we should keep rayn alive and undisturbed today. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet. On June 11 2024 16:44 Koshi wrote:
If sandrobe becomes town. I am willing to switch rayn. But before that. Never. On June 11 2024 17:07 Koshi wrote:
I think there is max 1 mafia in Vivax, Tfrel, Mocsta and Tfrel. Potentially 0. So if you 4 want rayn, and rayn does not want to come to me and talk to me, I can vote him. So in the end I have no idea what to make of this. Honestly it reads most like Koshi is just thinking out loud, and the constant and sudden direction changes just come from him changing his mind. + Show Spoiler [Koshi on die_meatbaby] +On June 09 2024 14:37 Koshi wrote:
Ok dmb can be worked with. Good. On June 10 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:
I think DMB is town. Just read her filter. On June 11 2024 03:48 Koshi wrote:
Fml. Between DMB and Vivax there is no way dmb is the mafia. On June 11 2024 05:01 Koshi wrote:
DMB shares my reads and calls me supertown.
Hard for me to lynch her. On June 11 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 15:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 15:47 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 11:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:55 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:51 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:46 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:44 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:39 AlphaZero wrote:
[quote]
He either keeps up in activity and analysis or does not. He is famous for being low activity as mafia.
Why is he mafia to you. I agreed with his takes pretty much all the time. This is low activity It is, but he had a IRL excuse. If there is an increase in activity now I think it’s less clear. So again I ask, how does he self resolve? He plays the next phase or two like the last two games he played. Or he doesn't I guarantee you he doesn’t In 2 phases it’s gonna be lylo assuming nothing funky happens and we continue to miss. Can you show me some good posts from Sandro? I’m assuming you don’t think the post I pointed out makes him scummy I assume that this is the question you want me to answer, I generally agree with his thinking and worldviews The post you quoted was weak I agree. I just want to give him some time because I think it will become more clear than this either way. And I think there are good alternatives. Like Rayn/koshi/dmb Unreal. Ok so mafia is split up. rayn/Koshi/dmb has 1 or 2Mocsta/Sandroba has 1 or 2 Slam/Vivax/AZ has 0 or 1 Is that it? And us townies are capable to see 1. And we all have 1 mafia sitting in our ass mretending to be our friend. It is obvious Tfrel is town It is obvious Scott is town It is obvious Oats is town Those 3 are consensus right? Might want to add Vivax but dmb is still unsure. what are you saying here.. that you will vote rayn and/or dmb this cycle? I think DMB. I now fully believe we have mafia we are blind towards, and mafia we cant unsee. And for some reason it is perfectly split between the townies. (Well your team has more townies so that is why I consider our team has 2) On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? On June 11 2024 16:37 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 16:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? IM not sure on Sandro. I think DMB is likely. Yes. Just like we are not sure about DMB. But let's argue which of these 2 is most likely today. Really like the way you guys approached Oats. Except 1-2 adhoms it was enjoyable to read. There is for sure a lot of town in your team. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet. This read progression is more challenging to understand. From post #2593, where Koshi says it'll be hard for him to lynch die_meatbaby, to post #2964, where Koshi says he would vote for die_meatbaby this cycle, die_meatbaby has four posts: + Show Spoiler +On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? On June 11 2024 06:29 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba I am quite certain Vivax is town and i think you are wrong. How does that go with you? I need more time to read vivax and also to read you On June 11 2024 07:19 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:42 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? I don't have a super confident read on sandroba or anything but currently he is being voted by the people in the game I find most suspicious. This makes me very incentivized to keep him alive. He's been low activity/involvement, but that alone doesn't make him mafia imo. You said that he has townreads early, some people value their early townreads, it's a playstyle thing. I will note however that sandroba didn't say he was townreading AlphaZero, just that he liked the point that AlphaZero made. I will note however that the final post of these "townreads" was post #283. By this point, your townread rsoultin said she liked where Vivax's head was at, and that she liked AlphaZero. I don't consider three to be significantly more than two, especially since sandroba was posting at a later point in the game, where there was more that happened. Basically though what I am getting at is that early townreads aren't atypical at all. For example, when rsoultin came back she almost immediately said I looked good (post #343). I don't think Mocsta is a power role, or if he is, it's definitely not because of his post about jailkeeping Oatsmaster or whatever he said. I don't see any reasons that you have given for Mocsta to be mafia outside of associations with sandroba (who I don't really think is mafia) and him saying he is a power role (which I don't believe). If you have other reasons, please let me know. If you are town, I'm going to need some help to see it so we can lynch Koshi and/or raynpelikoneet here. Or heck, even someone else if there is good reason. Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 21:06 die_meatbaby wrote:rsoultin/koshiEither rsoultin or koshi have not given me reasons to see them as mafia. Koshi is really activ, trying to solve the game here. He has a lot of townreads but he plays still like a Townkoshi would. ScottOn June 07 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:I think scott31337 is probably the most suspicious person to ever play this game. He's just always mafia somehow, even when his role PM says he is town I think you are right also in older games from he looked scummy in his town games. TrflOn June 07 2024 20:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
Trfel spending time and energy to fence sit seems townie to me, I don’t really like how rayn has approached today tbh the buddying trfel smells not good I thought the same thing kinda suspicious, but I think it was nothing. Trfls Filter wouldn´t make so much sense when he would be mafia. I could not see with who he would be togther in a team. For right now I see him as a Townie Sandrobahttps://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?user=sandrobathis is 2 page filter. he comes in the game starts with giving town reads on trfl, rayn, az, kelshier. far too early in the game to make so many reads.Then hitting a bit on scott and just going offline for ever. For me this filter is a red flag but maybe things change when he would start to play here again. IF I am corect with sandro mafia then guys look at this shit and you can call me paranoid but thats something now: Mocsta sandro making a few townreads on the people who were activ in the begining but not on mocsta he didn´t get a read On June 07 2024 23:21 sandroba wrote:
I actually like k3lsier too, 0 fucks given on mocsta interaction, seems very townie to me looks like it's such a safe read that it shouldn't be labeled as town right away so as not to stand out directly as teammates then the next posts felt to me like playing togther On June 08 2024 00:11 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 00:06 sandroba wrote:
Basically if the initial question wasn't fake, definitely what rayn answered is not enough to address the question.
If it is fake you are either doing it to create discussion and you don't really care about it, or you are trying to blend in not create discussion.
If you intension is the former which could be a townie agenda, you wouldn't try to cut it short when you got the discussion going, which was what scott did. It makes more sense it was the latter which points to mafia agenda. yeah I get this now and accept it's the most likely options I was too focused on a third option which is too low odds (i.e. genuine role query) the sandro we never saw sandro again... what happend was Mocasta playing normal and calling out that he is jailkeeper and he will save oats n1 I would just love to understand why he didn't die on the first night. If someone blue called you kill them that night as mafia. Why are you still alive? What did Marv do to get himself killed and not the PR? Are you really blue???? Are you really fucking Town? Or are you playing with sandro? and why jail oats anyway? if you are town why are you saving oats. Why is he so Town to you. Why not Koshi, marv people who are strong town and often die early. Why oats? Or have I already found the team here? this hole thing fucks my head. Either you fuck with me or the mafia, because it doesn´t make sense to me! also in the same time i think VivaxI think I already explained enough why I think he mafia. But this read could change again. He is hell of paranoid but in RL right now not in the game, maybe this leads to a false read but when he is playing like this he is def. mafia in my eyes. Then I have the question again why is oats in this involved if my currents reads would be correct or is oats red and vivax green? I don´t thinks so oats looking more townisch then vivax. I am still unsure how read oats. AZ I don´t have a good feeling with him. Feels like he wann kinda lead Town somewhere, but not in a way that is too conspicuous. Still try to figure out if this is DP or Palmar. But I think it´s someone who I have played with already. No read on him right now Rayn In every fucking game we have played I have read him wrong. He was town i thought mafia and the other way around. I am still to fucking unsure what to think of him right now. In my head kinda scummy so lets say more townisch because I am always wrong with my read on him. Slam to less activ to make a read. It´s anyways always hard to read slam but when he only appears minutes before or after somebody died then I can really not read him AND YOU ALL CAN CALL ME FUCKING PARANOID FOR THIS SANDRO/ MOCSTAR SHIT BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME SHIT GOING ON BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM I already explained here why they are together. I have a hard times to read rayn. Why do you think he is mafla? It's hard to say if there is anything there that justifies Koshi's read change. If Koshi's mindset/game view changed then this is more understandable, but I don't really think die_meatbaby's play alone can explain it.
In conclusion, I don't know. Does anyone have any ideas? To me, Koshi's read progressions on Vivax and die_meatbaby feel a bit fake and also convenient, however his read progression on raynpelikoneet comes across as significantly more genuine. It's hard for me to understand Koshi's approach but that doesn't make him mafia, that just makes him confusing. Koshi, or anyone else, any insight? I am the opposite of an analytical player. I basically forget what people posted 5 seconds after I read it except for a few posts that linger. I more gouge what is happening and how it makes me feel. Gotcha. So basically you're like Alakaslam without the chupazi and the hijole
Out of curiosity, what's it like reading your previous posts? For example, you're 85% confident die_meatbaby is mafia and are maybe willing to lynch her, does it make you reconsider when you read the reasons you were townreading her?
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On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Hey raynpelikoneet, can we talk about this for a little? I don't want to upset you and once again I am sorry that I did so, but if you are town I would very much like to understand where you are coming from.
Specifically the third paragraph, would you be able to explain where that is coming from?
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On June 11 2024 18:03 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:58 Trfel wrote:
The thing is, I'm not sold on sandroba being town.
I don't get much of an impression either way from his posts. But there is a distinct lack of them.
I'm...... going to vote for sandroba actually. dude.. I'm crying here Are you serious about following koshi and rayn, your scum reads on sandroba. This town can't give.yoj the external validation you are craving. Can you at least stay on rayn till we get more feedback from rest of town.. it's coming.. patience. A little bit more I know, I'm insane.
But I actually think this is the place to be. You could even join me!
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On June 11 2024 18:03 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:58 Trfel wrote:
The thing is, I'm not sold on sandroba being town.
I don't get much of an impression either way from his posts. But there is a distinct lack of them.
I'm...... going to vote for sandroba actually. dude.. I'm crying here Are you serious about following koshi and rayn, your scum reads on sandroba. This town can't give.yoj the external validation you are craving. Can you at least stay on rayn till we get more feedback from rest of town.. it's coming.. patience. A little bit more Like, I get it. I'm worried about some people on the wagon being mafia. But what if I am wrong?
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So to make sure I understand correctly:
If sandroba had not written that first sentence about rsoultin, and started straight into the reasons he thinks Koshi is mafia, that would have made more sense to you?
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On June 11 2024 20:34 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:05 Trfel wrote:
I mean if you guys still think Vivax is mafia and want to lynch him, go ahead I guess? Maybe you're right. I certainly haven't cleared Vivax, I just thought there was no further benefit from voting for him.
I just think a few other people look worse. trfel..do you still hold this position? Yeah. I think Vivax has looked a bit better but I wouldn't say he's 100% town or anything.On June 11 2024 21:52 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 21:49 Vivax wrote:On June 10 2024 21:34 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 20:43 Koshi wrote:
I am 20000000% town on scott and if somebody calls him mafia I am just going to vote that person.
Like Vivax is. @vivax thats way to risky to post as mafia This I don‘t understand. Why ? Or the mocsta blue read. I don‘t think she‘d believe that was a legit claim. You think she would be able to tell that mocsta was joking if she was town? I ought to note that last game when die_meatbaby was mafia, she seemed to believe when people said they were power roles randomly for no reason (and most players could easily tell they weren't serious). I didn't think anything of it here because I kinda thought die_meatbaby would do that as town too, but I could be wrong, in which case it's relevant I suppose.On June 12 2024 01:08 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2024 00:40 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/dmb fits nicely with this voting pattern of sandroba. Alone for that she is mafia. The connection to his mafia buddy is just cherry on top. How the fuck do I end up beeing togther with sandroba? I made the case about sandro and mocstar and I still believe that this two are fucking us here together!! Vivax thinks I am scum because of dumb telling and less aggressiv playing. Dt was one of the reasons I got misslynched last time. And Vivax told me to not be so toxic here and now I am mafia because I am not as toxic as usual. The actuall fuck is this here? I am mafia because of beeing a lot afk or small filter. I would be way more excited to play as mafia not always Town. It sucks to be Town. I am never getting NK because I am a save misslynch for mafia. And it works for mafia every fucking game again. Last time nofuckingbody believed me that DP is that fucking crazy insane to shoot his afk mafia. I got misslynched because of my "stupid" but true theoris. And now you all turning again against me. I believe its s and m and now you fuckers are thinking I am with one of my most believed scumread togther. @die_meatbaby, I'm sorry that this is your impression. For what it's worth, I do think playing as town can be quite fun. I understand where you're coming from, though. I've only played one previous game with you and you were mafia, and I'm worried that you may be mafia here (though I could be wrong). I'd like to play with you being town sometime, I think you'd be fun to work with. If that's this game, I'd appreciate a little help to see it, because I'm not as perceptive as I'd like.
@scott31337: admittedly it doesn't make a ton of sense to find the lack of communication between die_meatbaby and sandroba suspicious imo when die_meatbaby hasn't posted much and sandroba has posted even less >< Would you honestly expect them to have talked much?
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On June 12 2024 02:17 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2024 02:10 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 20:34 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 04:05 Trfel wrote:
I mean if you guys still think Vivax is mafia and want to lynch him, go ahead I guess? Maybe you're right. I certainly haven't cleared Vivax, I just thought there was no further benefit from voting for him.
I just think a few other people look worse. trfel..do you still hold this position? Yeah. I think Vivax has looked a bit better but I wouldn't say he's 100% town or anything. On June 11 2024 21:52 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 21:49 Vivax wrote:On June 10 2024 21:34 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 20:43 Koshi wrote:
I am 20000000% town on scott and if somebody calls him mafia I am just going to vote that person.
Like Vivax is. @vivax thats way to risky to post as mafia This I don‘t understand. Why ? Or the mocsta blue read. I don‘t think she‘d believe that was a legit claim. You think she would be able to tell that mocsta was joking if she was town? I ought to note that last game when die_meatbaby was mafia, she seemed to believe when people said they were power roles randomly for no reason (and most players could easily tell they weren't serious). I didn't think anything of it here because I kinda thought die_meatbaby would do that as town too, but I could be wrong, in which case it's relevant I suppose. On June 12 2024 01:08 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 12 2024 00:40 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/dmb fits nicely with this voting pattern of sandroba. Alone for that she is mafia. The connection to his mafia buddy is just cherry on top. How the fuck do I end up beeing togther with sandroba? I made the case about sandro and mocstar and I still believe that this two are fucking us here together!! Vivax thinks I am scum because of dumb telling and less aggressiv playing. Dt was one of the reasons I got misslynched last time. And Vivax told me to not be so toxic here and now I am mafia because I am not as toxic as usual. The actuall fuck is this here? I am mafia because of beeing a lot afk or small filter. I would be way more excited to play as mafia not always Town. It sucks to be Town. I am never getting NK because I am a save misslynch for mafia. And it works for mafia every fucking game again. Last time nofuckingbody believed me that DP is that fucking crazy insane to shoot his afk mafia. I got misslynched because of my "stupid" but true theoris. And now you all turning again against me. I believe its s and m and now you fuckers are thinking I am with one of my most believed scumread togther. @die_meatbaby, I'm sorry that this is your impression. For what it's worth, I do think playing as town can be quite fun. I understand where you're coming from, though. I've only played one previous game with you and you were mafia, and I'm worried that you may be mafia here (though I could be wrong). I'd like to play with you being town sometime, I think you'd be fun to work with. If that's this game, I'd appreciate a little help to see it, because I'm not as perceptive as I'd like. @scott31337: admittedly it doesn't make a ton of sense to find the lack of communication between die_meatbaby and sandroba suspicious imo when die_meatbaby hasn't posted much and sandroba has posted even less >< Would you honestly expect them to have talked much? Last game.. One more misslynch for Town and Town loses. Read my fucking filter there. How I tried so hard to getTown on my Townside and nobody was talking to me hours before the lynch only person was Dp my suspect who was actually mafia. I EVEN tried to convince dp that he is mafia. How did the people not seeing that. How could no body ecept dp be online before the lynch is... this shit is getting more depressing every game... all the time I am dead because misslynch pushed by mafia. I believe you, that said, I don't really feel like reading a past game because I'm not a big fan of meta reads. Unfortunately DarthPunk was kind of insane last game, sometimes the game gets like that, where players get enough trust and town credit that they can kinda do anything. Once, there was a player named Onegu and he posted a video case, where he was talking and explaining his scum reads. In that video, he accidentally let slip that he was mafia. His mafia partner even pointed this out. Town was so stuck in their ways that they ignored it and he lived and won the game.
Believe me, I get it. But how about this, I'm pretty good at keeping people alive if I want them alive. For example, you think scott31337 is town, right? I would bet that if it wasn't for me defending him, he wouldn't be alive right now (rsoultin defended him a lot too, it probably took both of us, not trying to be self-focused here). If I think you're town, I will do my best to keep you alive.
But if you're town, I'm gonna need some help to see that. If you're town and you work with me and I can't figure out that you're town, that's not on you at all, that's on me.
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Scott31337, how are you on Arizona time living in the midwest? Those... aren't the same place?
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On June 12 2024 02:32 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2024 02:27 Trfel wrote:
Scott31337, how are you on Arizona time living in the midwest? Those... aren't the same place? Because my job is still based in Arizona so I start work at 11am EDT (8am AZ time) And usually wake up around 10:30-10:45am Gotcha gotcha, that makes sense. Was just curious.
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On June 12 2024 04:51 sandroba wrote:
Well that has no bearing on dmb though, trfel's case on her is still the strongest in the thread. Koshi / rsoul even rayn might still be scum, but it would be due to sheer luck if I stumbled on the right answer Well I'd appreciate it you stumbled up on it all the same
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I'm around, I don't really see much reason to change course though?
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On June 12 2024 09:01 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2024 08:58 Grackaroni wrote:
Day Two Vote Count
sandroba (7); raynpelikoneet, Koshi, Scott31337, Oatsmaster, die_meatbaby, trfel, Alakaslam
die_meatbaby (3): Trfel, sandroba, AlphaZero, Vivax, AlphaZero, sandroba
raynpelikoneet(1): Mocsta, Trfel, AlphaZero, sandroba
Vivax (0): Trfel, AlphaZero, Scott31337, Koshi, Mocsta, Alakaslam, die_meatbaby
Koshi (0): Vivax, sandroba
scott31337 (0): Vivax
With 7 votes, sandroba is currently set to be lynched!
The deadline is Wednesday, Jun 12 2:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
majority say az is town and I think sentiment is mostly vivax is town On dmb lynch is max 1 mafia Therefore mafia control the vote and have chosen sandroba Go town!!!! Yes but I have three reasons why sandroba is mafia
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On June 12 2024 09:24 Vivax wrote:
Statistically though there‘s tops 3 mafia on dmb while they are much more likely on sandro. Yeah I really wouldn't expect any more than 3 mafia on die_meatbaby here.
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I think die_meatbaby is mafia though
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Koshi is very likey town imo due to rsoultin's desire to lynch sandroba day 1.
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I guess I should probably do something at some point, admittedly that was a nice break though.
@Koshi, I thougth those three were mafia for the reasons I stated. It should be pretty clear reading my filter. If you disagree that's fine of course, but I made it quite clear why I thought what I thought.
My instinct is that die_meatbaby is still mafia. Just like I had three reasons for sandroba being mafia, I have six reasons for die_meatbaby being mafia I'll try and read in more depth, but mafia bussing seems reasonable to me, not that it's guaranteed but it's absolutely a possibility (I'd even say it's quite likely but I suppose that's debatable).
Not 100% slam dunk on die_meatbaby being mafia, and I will spend more time on this, but I think it's pretty likely.
In all honesty, I'm not very inclined to think Mocsta is mafia, but I can re-evaluate this. My theory is that mafia was bussing, or at least willing to bus day 2. This is because surely the mafia team could tell that sandroba was very likely to die, especially if he knows that he has trouble playing as mafia. I don't think it makes a ton of sense for mafia!Mocsta to try and save mafia!sandroba like that when there is no realistic avenue for success. If sandroba was trying to defend himself I could mayyybeee see it, but I don't think it makes much sense for sandroba to give up and for Mocsta to defend him. Please don't misunderstand, I'm absolutely not saying that this means Mocsta is town for this, I'm saying that I don't think this is actually suspicious for Mocsta, and thus I am relying on my previous townread.
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I think it's possible that mafia tried to defend sandroba. I just also think it's possible that mafia bussed sandroba. Without more information, I think it's next to impossible to know, and I'm very hesitant on making a hard conclusion (I don't like to rule out possibilities unless the reasons for doing so are extremely solid). There are plenty of other things that are more helpful than risking clearing people over something that is uncertain.
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On June 13 2024 05:51 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 04:21 Trfel wrote:I guess I should probably do something at some point, admittedly that was a nice break though. @Koshi, I thougth those three were mafia for the reasons I stated. It should be pretty clear reading my filter. If you disagree that's fine of course, but I made it quite clear why I thought what I thought. My instinct is that die_meatbaby is still mafia. Just like I had three reasons for sandroba being mafia, I have six reasons for die_meatbaby being mafia I'll try and read in more depth, but mafia bussing seems reasonable to me, not that it's guaranteed but it's absolutely a possibility (I'd even say it's quite likely but I suppose that's debatable). Not 100% slam dunk on die_meatbaby being mafia, and I will spend more time on this, but I think it's pretty likely. In all honesty, I'm not very inclined to think Mocsta is mafia, but I can re-evaluate this. My theory is that mafia was bussing, or at least willing to bus day 2. This is because surely the mafia team could tell that sandroba was very likely to die, especially if he knows that he has trouble playing as mafia. I don't think it makes a ton of sense for mafia!Mocsta to try and save mafia!sandroba like that when there is no realistic avenue for success. If sandroba was trying to defend himself I could mayyybeee see it, but I don't think it makes much sense for sandroba to give up and for Mocsta to defend him. Please don't misunderstand, I'm absolutely not saying that this means Mocsta is town for this, I'm saying that I don't think this is actually suspicious for Mocsta, and thus I am relying on my previous townread. if you want to lynch me tomorrow for beeing this much inactiv it´s okey for me (if I am alive). But your reads just doesn´t make any sense to me. Why should I make a case on sandroba before there was a lynchbus on him? Btw I am not sure if I can fake a case like the one I made and I still believe that sandroba and mocstar are togther. I am trying to figure out who the third person is and as I have already learend from the games before I should not stuck on the same people for days also when one of my mafia reads were correct. I also start to think if there is a possibility that you could be mafia This doesn't have anything to do with why I think you are mafia though.
I think you are mafia because I have been doing everything I can to reach out to you, work with you, and understand you, and you've ignored me much more often than not. And I think you are mafia because you haven't been very involved or invested, and have been hiding behind constant excuses and promises of future activity. Furthermore, when people have raised valid concerns about your play, you have avoided answering, instead avoiding posting or distracting by talking about something else.
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On June 13 2024 06:13 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 06:05 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 05:51 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 04:21 Trfel wrote:I guess I should probably do something at some point, admittedly that was a nice break though. @Koshi, I thougth those three were mafia for the reasons I stated. It should be pretty clear reading my filter. If you disagree that's fine of course, but I made it quite clear why I thought what I thought. My instinct is that die_meatbaby is still mafia. Just like I had three reasons for sandroba being mafia, I have six reasons for die_meatbaby being mafia I'll try and read in more depth, but mafia bussing seems reasonable to me, not that it's guaranteed but it's absolutely a possibility (I'd even say it's quite likely but I suppose that's debatable). Not 100% slam dunk on die_meatbaby being mafia, and I will spend more time on this, but I think it's pretty likely. In all honesty, I'm not very inclined to think Mocsta is mafia, but I can re-evaluate this. My theory is that mafia was bussing, or at least willing to bus day 2. This is because surely the mafia team could tell that sandroba was very likely to die, especially if he knows that he has trouble playing as mafia. I don't think it makes a ton of sense for mafia!Mocsta to try and save mafia!sandroba like that when there is no realistic avenue for success. If sandroba was trying to defend himself I could mayyybeee see it, but I don't think it makes much sense for sandroba to give up and for Mocsta to defend him. Please don't misunderstand, I'm absolutely not saying that this means Mocsta is town for this, I'm saying that I don't think this is actually suspicious for Mocsta, and thus I am relying on my previous townread. if you want to lynch me tomorrow for beeing this much inactiv it´s okey for me (if I am alive). But your reads just doesn´t make any sense to me. Why should I make a case on sandroba before there was a lynchbus on him? Btw I am not sure if I can fake a case like the one I made and I still believe that sandroba and mocstar are togther. I am trying to figure out who the third person is and as I have already learend from the games before I should not stuck on the same people for days also when one of my mafia reads were correct. I also start to think if there is a possibility that you could be mafia This doesn't have anything to do with why I think you are mafia though. I think you are mafia because I have been doing everything I can to reach out to you, work with you, and understand you, and you've ignored me much more often than not. And I think you are mafia because you haven't been very involved or invested, and have been hiding behind constant excuses and promises of future activity. Furthermore, when people have raised valid concerns about your play, you have avoided answering, instead avoiding posting or distracting by talking about something else. I am sorry beeing so much inactiv, but also you should know that I was activ as mafia in my old mafia game. Now I am here ask me what ever you want. And tell me who do you think could also be mafia besides me? I still have my Mocstar/sandroba theory but the case that mocstar on az made looks interesting and I didn´t invest much interest in az or to make a good read on az, because I normaly compare old games or the way how the play as either aligment to the actual game. So it makes it more complicated for me to read AZ I played in your previous mafia game, I am aware of it. I actually looked at it not too long ago, to see if it is similar to this game.
Your post percentage (percentage of the game posts that are made by you) is actually quite similar in this game compared to your previous mafia game.
Sorry, I had to head out for a bit. I'm back now. Not super focused, sorry, but present.
I understand that getting mislynched is frustrating, and feeling like you don't have thread control is frustrating. That's part of why I want to work with you if you are town, because it's still my job to figure that out.
Let me know if you are still around.
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No no no you don't want to live in the US, trust me.
Die_meatbaby, did you really reread the entire game and everyone's filter, like you said you would here?On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep.
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On June 13 2024 08:52 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 08:32 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 06:13 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 06:05 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 05:51 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 04:21 Trfel wrote:I guess I should probably do something at some point, admittedly that was a nice break though. @Koshi, I thougth those three were mafia for the reasons I stated. It should be pretty clear reading my filter. If you disagree that's fine of course, but I made it quite clear why I thought what I thought. My instinct is that die_meatbaby is still mafia. Just like I had three reasons for sandroba being mafia, I have six reasons for die_meatbaby being mafia I'll try and read in more depth, but mafia bussing seems reasonable to me, not that it's guaranteed but it's absolutely a possibility (I'd even say it's quite likely but I suppose that's debatable). Not 100% slam dunk on die_meatbaby being mafia, and I will spend more time on this, but I think it's pretty likely. In all honesty, I'm not very inclined to think Mocsta is mafia, but I can re-evaluate this. My theory is that mafia was bussing, or at least willing to bus day 2. This is because surely the mafia team could tell that sandroba was very likely to die, especially if he knows that he has trouble playing as mafia. I don't think it makes a ton of sense for mafia!Mocsta to try and save mafia!sandroba like that when there is no realistic avenue for success. If sandroba was trying to defend himself I could mayyybeee see it, but I don't think it makes much sense for sandroba to give up and for Mocsta to defend him. Please don't misunderstand, I'm absolutely not saying that this means Mocsta is town for this, I'm saying that I don't think this is actually suspicious for Mocsta, and thus I am relying on my previous townread. if you want to lynch me tomorrow for beeing this much inactiv it´s okey for me (if I am alive). But your reads just doesn´t make any sense to me. Why should I make a case on sandroba before there was a lynchbus on him? Btw I am not sure if I can fake a case like the one I made and I still believe that sandroba and mocstar are togther. I am trying to figure out who the third person is and as I have already learend from the games before I should not stuck on the same people for days also when one of my mafia reads were correct. I also start to think if there is a possibility that you could be mafia This doesn't have anything to do with why I think you are mafia though. I think you are mafia because I have been doing everything I can to reach out to you, work with you, and understand you, and you've ignored me much more often than not. And I think you are mafia because you haven't been very involved or invested, and have been hiding behind constant excuses and promises of future activity. Furthermore, when people have raised valid concerns about your play, you have avoided answering, instead avoiding posting or distracting by talking about something else. I am sorry beeing so much inactiv, but also you should know that I was activ as mafia in my old mafia game. Now I am here ask me what ever you want. And tell me who do you think could also be mafia besides me? I still have my Mocstar/sandroba theory but the case that mocstar on az made looks interesting and I didn´t invest much interest in az or to make a good read on az, because I normaly compare old games or the way how the play as either aligment to the actual game. So it makes it more complicated for me to read AZ I played in your previous mafia game, I am aware of it. I actually looked at it not too long ago, to see if it is similar to this game. Your post percentage (percentage of the game posts that are made by you) is actually quite similar in this game compared to your previous mafia game. Sorry, I had to head out for a bit. I'm back now. Not super focused, sorry, but present. I understand that getting mislynched is frustrating, and feeling like you don't have thread control is frustrating. That's part of why I want to work with you if you are town, because it's still my job to figure that out. Let me know if you are still around. I am still around What the differnce between my towngame and mafia game? Did you look up any town games as well? I don't know, I haven't read any of your town play. I don't like using meta (in addition to the fact that I don't think I'm very good at it and I don't think it holds much weight). I would much rather simply read you for your play alone.On June 13 2024 11:58 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 11:55 Trfel wrote:No no no you don't want to live in the US, trust me. Die_meatbaby, did you really reread the entire game and everyone's filter, like you said you would here? On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep. Yes I was rereading the game The only one who I didn't filter was slam Okay, we can do this.On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep. List post arrived at 8:06a EDT on June 10. Your last post the night before was at 10:56p EDT, June 9.
Let's assume you didn't sleep at all and stayed up all night reading. This means that in 9 hours and 10 minutes, you read:
the thread (116 pages)
Oatsmaster's filter (12 pages)
My filter (12 pages)
rsoultin's filter (9 pages)
Koshi's filter (5 pages)
scott31337's filter (7 pages)
raynpelikoneet's filter (14 pages)
sandroba's filter (2 pages)
Mocsta's filter (9 pages)
Vivax's filter (13 pages)
AlphaZero's filter (14 pages)
I didn't check the end point on these pages, meaning some of them were likely not complete pages. Let's estimate that each page was half-filled, so take off a half page from each. That's 5.5 pages, we'll round up and make it 6 to give you the benefit of the doubt.
You read a grand total of 207 pages. That means you read at 22.58 pages per hour, or about 1 minute 39.5 seconds per page. This comes out to about 8 seconds per post.
Sure, some posts are small, but others aren't. To me, it would be prohibitively difficult for someone to stay up all night to do this, and not lose focus or speed at any moment. This also fails to take into account the time required to actually type up your list post.
The alternative explanation is that you are mafia and you made the exact same lie that you've made before as mafia. What do you honestly expect me, or anyone, to think?
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On June 13 2024 12:23 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 12:13 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 08:52 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 08:32 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 06:13 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 06:05 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 05:51 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 04:21 Trfel wrote:I guess I should probably do something at some point, admittedly that was a nice break though. @Koshi, I thougth those three were mafia for the reasons I stated. It should be pretty clear reading my filter. If you disagree that's fine of course, but I made it quite clear why I thought what I thought. My instinct is that die_meatbaby is still mafia. Just like I had three reasons for sandroba being mafia, I have six reasons for die_meatbaby being mafia I'll try and read in more depth, but mafia bussing seems reasonable to me, not that it's guaranteed but it's absolutely a possibility (I'd even say it's quite likely but I suppose that's debatable). Not 100% slam dunk on die_meatbaby being mafia, and I will spend more time on this, but I think it's pretty likely. In all honesty, I'm not very inclined to think Mocsta is mafia, but I can re-evaluate this. My theory is that mafia was bussing, or at least willing to bus day 2. This is because surely the mafia team could tell that sandroba was very likely to die, especially if he knows that he has trouble playing as mafia. I don't think it makes a ton of sense for mafia!Mocsta to try and save mafia!sandroba like that when there is no realistic avenue for success. If sandroba was trying to defend himself I could mayyybeee see it, but I don't think it makes much sense for sandroba to give up and for Mocsta to defend him. Please don't misunderstand, I'm absolutely not saying that this means Mocsta is town for this, I'm saying that I don't think this is actually suspicious for Mocsta, and thus I am relying on my previous townread. if you want to lynch me tomorrow for beeing this much inactiv it´s okey for me (if I am alive). But your reads just doesn´t make any sense to me. Why should I make a case on sandroba before there was a lynchbus on him? Btw I am not sure if I can fake a case like the one I made and I still believe that sandroba and mocstar are togther. I am trying to figure out who the third person is and as I have already learend from the games before I should not stuck on the same people for days also when one of my mafia reads were correct. I also start to think if there is a possibility that you could be mafia This doesn't have anything to do with why I think you are mafia though. I think you are mafia because I have been doing everything I can to reach out to you, work with you, and understand you, and you've ignored me much more often than not. And I think you are mafia because you haven't been very involved or invested, and have been hiding behind constant excuses and promises of future activity. Furthermore, when people have raised valid concerns about your play, you have avoided answering, instead avoiding posting or distracting by talking about something else. I am sorry beeing so much inactiv, but also you should know that I was activ as mafia in my old mafia game. Now I am here ask me what ever you want. And tell me who do you think could also be mafia besides me? I still have my Mocstar/sandroba theory but the case that mocstar on az made looks interesting and I didn´t invest much interest in az or to make a good read on az, because I normaly compare old games or the way how the play as either aligment to the actual game. So it makes it more complicated for me to read AZ I played in your previous mafia game, I am aware of it. I actually looked at it not too long ago, to see if it is similar to this game. Your post percentage (percentage of the game posts that are made by you) is actually quite similar in this game compared to your previous mafia game. Sorry, I had to head out for a bit. I'm back now. Not super focused, sorry, but present. I understand that getting mislynched is frustrating, and feeling like you don't have thread control is frustrating. That's part of why I want to work with you if you are town, because it's still my job to figure that out. Let me know if you are still around. I am still around What the differnce between my towngame and mafia game? Did you look up any town games as well? I don't know, I haven't read any of your town play. I don't like using meta (in addition to the fact that I don't think I'm very good at it and I don't think it holds much weight). I would much rather simply read you for your play alone. On June 13 2024 11:58 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 11:55 Trfel wrote:No no no you don't want to live in the US, trust me. Die_meatbaby, did you really reread the entire game and everyone's filter, like you said you would here? On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep. Yes I was rereading the game The only one who I didn't filter was slam Okay, we can do this. On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep. List post arrived at 8:06a EDT on June 10. Your last post the night before was at 10:56p EDT, June 9. Let's assume you didn't sleep at all and stayed up all night reading. This means that in 9 hours and 10 minutes, you read: the thread (116 pages) Oatsmaster's filter (12 pages) My filter (12 pages) rsoultin's filter (9 pages) Koshi's filter (5 pages) scott31337's filter (7 pages) raynpelikoneet's filter (14 pages) sandroba's filter (2 pages) Mocsta's filter (9 pages) Vivax's filter (13 pages) AlphaZero's filter (14 pages) I didn't check the end point on these pages, meaning some of them were likely not complete pages. Let's estimate that each page was half-filled, so take off a half page from each. That's 5.5 pages, we'll round up and make it 6 to give you the benefit of the doubt. You read a grand total of 207 pages. That means you read at 22.58 pages per hour, or about 1 minute 39.5 seconds per page. This comes out to about 8 seconds per post. Sure, some posts are small, but others aren't. To me, it would be prohibitively difficult for someone to stay up all night to do this, and not lose focus or speed at any moment. This also fails to take into account the time required to actually type up your list post. The alternative explanation is that you are mafia and you made the exact same lie that you've made before as mafia. What do you honestly expect me, or anyone, to think? I was reading in work time then after work now its 5:17 am. I don't read so fast in my second language but I did First I was reading the thread then slowley filtering the persons looking scummy and then later my townreads again. I took time yes but I did it. I have do if I want to find something here and it was not as hard. I was rereading the last game where dp had 80+ pages alone. I was on top of lynch sitting for 5 hours on the floor just reading this shit until i find what i need to find... Okay, so this argument doesn't explain it in the slightest. But you did say as town last game that you were going to reread at page 146ish. Whatever....
@scott31337, not sure. Apparently die_meatbaby just reads hundreds of pages in an instant. I still think she could very easily be mafia, there are plenty of other reasons, but I haven't looked deeply in like 36 hours so that's very overdue.
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On June 13 2024 12:33 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel if you are town lynch AlphaZero
Unless you have multiple reasons to read him town
You like to talk a lot
Tell me how AZ is town or vote with us What part of "I'm catching up, I don't know" is so hard to understand?
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Like why would you want a half-baked opinion? How is that useful to you?
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On June 13 2024 12:36 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel I think you are tunneled on DMB
She could be like x% mafia in my book?
Did you read my n2 post?
There's a very low chance we were on mafia/mafia by numbers Yes, I read your night two post.
I don't think I'm tunneled on die_meatbaby, I've made plenty of clear points and I don't have any strong reads regardless so how can I be tunneled on something if I'm not confident in anything?
Why do you want me to post uninformed opinions after I literally just told you I don't know anything?
@AlphaZero, if you're around for a moment, can you explain why you think Mocsta is mafia or point me towards previous explanations (sorry I forget)?
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On June 13 2024 12:39 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 12:35 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 12:33 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel if you are town lynch AlphaZero
Unless you have multiple reasons to read him town
You like to talk a lot
Tell me how AZ is town or vote with us What part of "I'm catching up, I don't know" is so hard to understand? Then catch up. Then stop pestering me with stupid questions?!?!
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On June 13 2024 12:54 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 12:51 scott31337 wrote:On June 13 2024 12:36 AlphaZero wrote:On June 13 2024 12:35 Trfel wrote:
Like why would you want a half-baked opinion? How is that useful to you? Its because he is not interested in solving, he is pushing agenda. I thought it was past your bed time where you were located. Where are you located? See, he is uncomfortable with me pointing this out. He wants me to go away He's watching out for your best interests!
Side note, thanks for the explanation on Mocsta, I'll look into it more. You think Mocsta is more likely mafia than scott31337?
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I'm honestly confused as to who even thinks what, it feels like everyone's reads have changed significantly since the sandroba flip. Maybe I'm the stupid one for not changing my reads tbh.
Side note, I don't find the whole "scott31337 slipped that die_meatbaby is town" thing very compelling. I think it makes sense from the perspective of someone who is (theoretically) town and is overconfident in pre-flip reads. As in, it matches the rest of the way scott31337 has played.
First question, why does scott31337 scumread AlphaZero and townread Mocsta? He posted some (imo weak) reasons. In fact, scott31337 literally says "I appreciate his attempts, but it's not a win over" when referring to Mocsta's case of scott31337's strongest scumread, AlphaZero. But he says these are the best reasons to scumread AlphaZero. Basically I'm supposed to believe that sscott31337 thinks that this case that he doesn't think is all that strong is the best case against AlphaZero, yet he's still extremely confident in AlphaZero being mafia? Strong enough to base the rest of his reads off of AlphaZero being mafia, anyway ><
Second point, sandroba voted for scott31337 early day 1 and left his vote there. However, sandroba didn't post from page 24 until after the day 1 deadline. I think it's quite possible for sandroba to vote for his mafia partner, and then something comes up and he can't change it, even if it's a close vote against a townie.
Third point, scott31337 voted for sandroba at 4:11p EDT June 10. He was the third person to do so (after raynpelikoneet and Koshi). Would scott31337 do this as mafia? It looks like it's Koshi's vote that directly prompts him to do this (scott31337 notes Koshi's vote at 4:10p EDT and then votes for sandroba one minute later). This is about halfway through sandroba's series of catchup posts. From one perspective, it feels a little early to bus, since sandroba is actually posting at this time, but from another perspective, it feels like a good time to get a vote down, one which he can move later if needed. But, did scott31337 set himself up to move? Scott31337 was scumreading sandroba, Alakaslam, and AlphaZero. He also said he wouldn't vote for die_meatbaby.
I actually think this (point 3) is a decent reason to townread scott31337. Sandroba (flipped mafia) was reading Koshi, raynpelikoneet, die_meatbaby, and Alakaslam as potential mafia. He later says that he would vote for any of raynpelikoneet, die_meatbaby, or Koshi. He doesn't suggest voting for Alakaslam at all. Scott31337 set himself up to vote for sandroba, Alakaslam, or AlphaZero. Maybe I'm overthinking it but if scott31337 and sandroba are mafia together here, why wouldn't they suggest lynching Alakaslam (assuming Alakaslam is town for the moment)? I just think it doesn't make much sense for mafia to walk themselves into voting separately or hoping that town randomly shenanigans onto the one scumread they have in common. Like, if scott31337 and sandroba are mafia together here, scott31337 saying he won't vote for die_meatbaby makes it extremely unlikely for sandroba to survive. Scott31337 actually re-evaluates die_meatbaby the next day, around 12p EDT June 11, and commits to not switching. To be fair, by this point there are a large number of votes on sandroba and sandroba stopped posting.
Maybe this isn't as strong as I thought. Maybe just a slight reason to townread scott31337. I do think it's not completely negligible though.
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Mocsta, why is die_meatbaby town again? Your posts seem to indicate that she is town because AlphaZero is mafia? Is this a "the two wagons won't ever both be mafia" thing?
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Mocsta, can I break this down with you?
If there is something I am misunderstanding, please point it out. It is very possible that I am missing something.
You think AlphaZero is mafia for how he posts about sandroba but doesn't end up voting for him, right? Basing this off of post #3410.
Why would AlphaZero, as mafia, share so many suspicions about his mafia partner sandroba and then not bus him when it becomes obvious sandroba is being lynched and sandroba gives up? (I mean, good mafia play is to bus him before it becomes hyper obvious, but at the very least he should do it at that point) It looks to me like your argument is that AlphaZero is mafia because he set himself up to bus sandroba but then just decided not to. I could buy this if there was any hope of keeping sandroba alive, but there clearly wasn't?
Like, why does this make AlphaZero mafia when what you (Mocsta) did, defending sandroba and looking for alternative wagons, presumably comes from town? How is what AlphaZero did any scummier or more mafia motivated than what you did?
Please understand that I'm not saying this means AlphaZero is town, by any means. Just that I don't think this is any reason for him to be mafia.
Do you have any other reasons? Because this seems very weak at best. And at a glance, it's your only reason.
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On June 13 2024 13:31 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 13:30 AlphaZero wrote:On June 13 2024 13:28 Trfel wrote:
Mocsta, can I break this down with you?
If there is something I am misunderstanding, please point it out. It is very possible that I am missing something.
You think AlphaZero is mafia for how he posts about sandroba but doesn't end up voting for him, right? Basing this off of post #3410.
Why would AlphaZero, as mafia, share so many suspicions about his mafia partner sandroba and then not bus him when it becomes obvious sandroba is being lynched and sandroba gives up? (I mean, good mafia play is to bus him before it becomes hyper obvious, but at the very least he should do it at that point) It looks to me like your argument is that AlphaZero is mafia because he set himself up to bus sandroba but then just decided not to. I could buy this if there was any hope of keeping sandroba alive, but there clearly wasn't?
Like, why does this make AlphaZero mafia when what you (Mocsta) did, defending sandroba and looking for alternative wagons, presumably comes from town? How is what AlphaZero did any scummier or more mafia motivated than what you did?
Please understand that I'm not saying this means AlphaZero is town, by any means. Just that I don't think this is any reason for him to be mafia.
Do you have any other reasons? Because this seems very weak at best. And at a glance, it's your only reason. and this is why he is mafia. cause there is no doubt. Unfortunately I'm not so sure, my thinking right now is that Mocsta is town and is being extremely illogical.
Maybe I am bad for thinking this way. I will keep thinking about it. But to me, it feels well within Mocsta's town range.
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On June 13 2024 13:35 scott31337 wrote:
I'm done with your waffling AZ
Fucking for someone if you believe they are mafia Dude, what?
Why are you so upset with your scumread for not voting?
Even if he's town, what's wrong with him waiting until later to vote? Especially given that he's at work?
And all that aside, he's clearly not waffling, and I don't think this is worth getting upset over?
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Maybe I just pocketed myself but I am not convinced Mocsta is mafia here. I'm just a huge sucker for the way he posts, even when I don't agree I just have a hard time seeing it coming from mafia. This is probably a huge blind spot for me this game, because it's not very rational. Note to myself to figure this out somehow.
Gut reads from Trfel! (note that order in each category is irrelevant)
Town
Koshi
Vivax
AlphaZero
Town Lean
Mocsta
Null
scott31337
Alakaslam
raynpelikoneet
Mafia Lean
die_meatbaby
I have no clue how I'm ever supposed to read Alakaslam this game. Need to figure out raynpelikoneet, scott31337, and die_meatbaby, next.
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On June 13 2024 13:42 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 13:39 AlphaZero wrote:On June 13 2024 13:37 scott31337 wrote:On June 13 2024 13:35 scott31337 wrote:
I'm done with your waffling AZ
Fucking for someone if you believe they are mafia Vote for Mocsta now if you truly believe they are mafia as you do. why so mad? Stop being so wishy washy mafia If you were confident - you would have voted already Okay, from your perspective, AlphaZero is mafia and his not voting on a strong scumread is a sign that he is mafia.
Why are you mad about your strong scumread, AlphaZero, doing something that shows that he is mafia? Shouldn't this make you happy and excited?
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I don't care at all if you think I am mafia.
I just want to know why you are so angry at your scum read(s) for doing something that indicates that they are mafia?
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I was going to read a bunch of filters and try and figure out who is mafia but I guess sometimes they just gift-wrap themselves and drop into your lap?
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On June 13 2024 14:16 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 14:13 Trfel wrote:
I was going to read a bunch of filters and try and figure out who is mafia but I guess sometimes they just gift-wrap themselves and drop into your lap? What does this accomplish? From your perspective, I have absolutely no idea.
From my perspective, I get to lynch mafia.
You should be asking yourself.
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On June 13 2024 14:18 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel are you willing to vote AlphaZero? No? What part of putting him as Town makes you think I would vote for him?
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On June 13 2024 14:21 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 14:19 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 14:18 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel are you willing to vote AlphaZero? No? What part of putting him as Town makes you think I would vote for him? Explain why. Oats is dead. Explain who if you still believe DMB is mafia who is their partner What does Oatsmaster being dead have to do with this?
I'm voting for you dude, and eventually I'll try to figure out if die_meatbaby is your partner, or someone else or what.
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On June 13 2024 14:24 scott31337 wrote:So you have not thought out any of the game. AZ/Trfel conspiracy theory come true Without any reasoning Yes, you're correct, there is no reasoning for the AlphaZero/Trfel mafia conspiracy theory. Glad you realize this
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On June 13 2024 14:26 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 14:23 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 14:21 scott31337 wrote:On June 13 2024 14:19 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 14:18 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel are you willing to vote AlphaZero? No? What part of putting him as Town makes you think I would vote for him? Explain why. Oats is dead. Explain who if you still believe DMB is mafia who is their partner What does Oatsmaster being dead have to do with this? I'm voting for you dude, and eventually I'll try to figure out if die_meatbaby is your partner, or someone else or what. Wow. What has changed from you. I dunno, maybe the fact that you decided to spew yourself mafia? And then ignore when I asked if you could explain it?
Sorry, I probably shouldn't be going back and forth with scott31337 over this, but it's so much fun.... I even missed one!On June 13 2024 14:21 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 14:19 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 14:18 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel are you willing to vote AlphaZero? No? What part of putting him as Town makes you think I would vote for him? Explain why. (...) Why do you need me to explain why I am not going to vote for someone I think is town?
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On June 13 2024 14:31 scott31337 wrote:
Why are you going after me? Okay, one more time.
If you are somehow town, why on earth would you be mad at AlphaZero for not voting?On June 13 2024 13:37 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 13:35 scott31337 wrote:
I'm done with your waffling AZ
Fucking for someone if you believe they are mafia Vote for Mocsta now if you truly believe they are mafia as you do. So you're saying that AlphaZero doesn't actually think Mocsta is mafia because AlphaZero is not voting for Mocsta. And the key is that you are very angry with AlphaZero for this.
If you are town, it makes no sense for you to be angry at AlphaZero, your scumread, for doing something that indicates that he is mafia.
If you are town, you would instead quote this and use it as evidence to the thread that AlphaZero is mafia. You have no reason to be angry at him for this, in fact you should be happy or thankful or excited or almost any other emotion because your scumread is feeding you more evidence that you can use to lynch them.
I could even understand if you were angry at the thread for not recognizing the obvious mafia. But town should never be angry at their scumread for doing things that indicate that they are mafia. It just does not come from a town mindset.
Plus you threatened to reduce your townread of me into a conspiracy theory read if I put you at null instead of town. That's simply not a town mindset.
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On June 13 2024 14:46 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel who do you want to lynch today?
Are you willing to lynch AlphaZero?
Why are you not willing to lynch AlphaZero? I believe he is mafia.
Trfel if you are town, vote somebody who you believe is mafia.
What part of "I think you are mafia and I am voting for you because I want to lynch you" do you not understand?
Why do you ask if I am willing to lynch AlphaZero and then ask why I am not willing to lynch AlphaZero?
Like...... are you just so freaking drunk that you can't put a thought together?
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On June 13 2024 14:48 scott31337 wrote:
"If you are town, it makes no sense for you to be angry at AlphaZero, your scumread, for doing something that indicates that he is mafia."
I've never been angry at AZ - I just want him to understand where I'm coming from.
This is a misrep
AZ/Trfel On June 13 2024 13:35 scott31337 wrote:
I'm done with your waffling AZ
Fucking for someone if you believe they are mafia If you are too drunk to think properly and too drunk to play then maybe I can back off. I don't drink so I don't really know how it affects someone.
But otherwise, you can't be serious?
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Okay, okay, I take it back. Even if you won't admit it, something is clearly affecting your play, most likely the alcohol. I assume this is preventing you from admitting what's going on as well.
I'll forget this ever happened and talk to you tomorrow.
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On June 13 2024 14:55 AlphaZero wrote:
i suspect scott is playing up the drinking thing to wriggle out of that mess, he only mentions it after he fucks up. That's possible but there are a lot of other things he could have done to try and get out of it as well.
Either he decided that his best defense was to go through a contrived series of posts to make it look he can't think clearly.... or he simply can't think clearly.
The former seems pretty scummy (not in a mafia alignment way, just in general). The latter seems much more reasonable. Like I hope this doesn't become a normal thing for people, whenever they get caught they just go "whoops I'm drunk," but for now I will unvote and reconsider.
In the middle of a scott31337 filter dive, I'm not saying he's town, I'm just back to unsure because I don't know if it's reasonable to attribute this mess to anything besides alcohol.
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Scott31337, with all due respect, maybe you could take a break and get some rest and post tomorrow when you are feeling better?
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On June 13 2024 14:53 Mocsta wrote:this was a good post to me,- much more thought provoking than i expected as i have written a response.. i've gone.. damn. thats stupid from me and very fair points from you. what can i say. anti-town award for me?
Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 13:28 Trfel wrote:
Mocsta, can I break this down with you?
If there is something I am misunderstanding, please point it out. It is very possible that I am missing something.
You think AlphaZero is mafia for how he posts about sandroba but doesn't end up voting for him, right? Basing this off of post #3410. Mostly correct. Paraphrased its about the byproduct of AlphaZero posts/votes create voting optionality, and applies whether voting a town or scum flip. Yes, town change reads and votes (I'm proof), and typically new information is the driver (or being stupid for me). Whereas, pursuing optionality, in particular without applying new information, is mafia mindset. The push-pull was about demonstrating through AlphaZeros quote history, the optionality kept open on Sandroba over 72 hours and 120+ posts that presented during that time; and bear in mind, this is for an F-Tier hard scum read so i attribute the optionality as opportunistic and therefore scummy.
Show nested quote +Why would AlphaZero, as mafia, share so many suspicions about his mafia partner sandroba and then not bus him when it becomes obvious sandroba is being lynched and sandroba gives up? (I mean, good mafia play is to bus him before it becomes hyper obvious, but at the very least he should do it at that point) It looks to me like your argument is that AlphaZero is mafia because he set himself up to bus sandroba but then just decided not to. I could buy this if there was any hope of keeping sandroba alive, but there clearly wasn't? We could be viewing two sides of the same coin? For example, in poker, there is the mathematically optimal way to play a hand; yet, that doesn't gurantee you win the pot. Somewhere along the lines, other human factors come into play. Some players, like yourself & Rayn veer towards the analytical approach to the game; others like town!sandroba veer towards the human intuition side, and then occasionally you get muppets like me that create lots of noise. BTW, my argument is that AlphaZero used push-pull to save Sandroba and maintain distance.. I read all his pushes as soft and I personally view AlphaZero push-pull defense of Sandroba as preventing him from bussing if that was a desired outcome - i.e. to jump in the last 5 hours would be sus.. and perhaps only rayn can resolve this via discussions from mason log
Show nested quote +Like, why does this make AlphaZero mafia when what you (Mocsta) did, defending sandroba and looking for alternative wagons, presumably comes from town? How is what AlphaZero did any scummier or more mafia motivated than what you did? yep, after the fact, my play is anti-town. I reduce this to: 1. not trusting town, that they would come together and stick. like, what game locks in wagons 5 hrs before lynch. 2. being overly concerned about last minute majority flips i mean, if you examine the whats, perhaps there is an argument of similarity much like what you have poited. I know my why, i shared it. you can choose to believe it or not. It has become anti-town, and thats not the same as mafia up-side either. The elements I have identified consistently across 72hrs with AZ, for me, if i implemented that optionlaity opportunisticly, the why is mafia upsides each and every time. Yes, it's possible that AlphaZero is mafia and realized too late that he should bus sandroba and then decided it would be too suspicious to switch and just ended up not bussing him. I think AlphaZero is clearly a better player than this, but I can't entirely rule out the possibility.
Even if you think "well Trfel, someone's gonna say that same argument you just said about why mafia would bus and how AlphaZero not joining the wagon doesn't make him mafia," you're not wrong, but this doesn't give him a reason to do this as mafia. AlphaZero not switching to sandroba didn't change the fact that sandroba was going to get lynched. In contrast, if AlphaZero switches to sandroba, he avoids all the knee-jerk "you didn't vote for mafia so you are mafia" scumreads. That's generally well worth it.
Sure, AlphaZero could have realized he should bus too late, and maybe thought it would look too suspicious to switch votes late and decided to deal with the knee-jerk repercussions, but.... why?
The point though is, AlphaZero as mafia doesn't gain anything by any of this. He didn't really attempt to defend his scumbuddy sandroba, and he didn't get any town credit for bussing. I don't think any of this is alignment indicative at all.
If you want to scumread AlphaZero for being wishy-washy on flipped mafia sandroba, this makes more sense to me. I don't think it's super strong or anything, but I think it's at least a reasonable argument that you can make. I don't think that you can conclude anything from AlphaZero not ending up on sandroba, however, because AlphaZero and sandroba (and presumably also mafia #3) didn't try to defend sandroba.
I'm not trying to bash you for being wrong, my point is, I think it's distinctly possible (in fact, I think it's extremely likely) that AlphaZero is simply town and was wrong day 2.
I don't think the argument for scumreading AlphaZero due to not voting for sandroba holds any water at all. I don't think the argument for scumreading AlphaZero for going back and forth on sandroba is very strong, though it's at least got a little merit. With those things being unclear, I think AlphaZero's day 1 was a very strong indication that he is town. So that's how I am reading him. Sure, he did a bunch of stuff that's not alignment indicative, but that's not going to change my townread because it's not alignment indicative.
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On June 13 2024 15:28 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 15:18 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 14:53 Mocsta wrote:this was a good post to me,- much more thought provoking than i expected as i have written a response.. i've gone.. damn. thats stupid from me and very fair points from you. what can i say. anti-town award for me?
On June 13 2024 13:28 Trfel wrote:
Mocsta, can I break this down with you?
If there is something I am misunderstanding, please point it out. It is very possible that I am missing something.
You think AlphaZero is mafia for how he posts about sandroba but doesn't end up voting for him, right? Basing this off of post #3410. Mostly correct. Paraphrased its about the byproduct of AlphaZero posts/votes create voting optionality, and applies whether voting a town or scum flip. Yes, town change reads and votes (I'm proof), and typically new information is the driver (or being stupid for me). Whereas, pursuing optionality, in particular without applying new information, is mafia mindset. The push-pull was about demonstrating through AlphaZeros quote history, the optionality kept open on Sandroba over 72 hours and 120+ posts that presented during that time; and bear in mind, this is for an F-Tier hard scum read so i attribute the optionality as opportunistic and therefore scummy.
Why would AlphaZero, as mafia, share so many suspicions about his mafia partner sandroba and then not bus him when it becomes obvious sandroba is being lynched and sandroba gives up? (I mean, good mafia play is to bus him before it becomes hyper obvious, but at the very least he should do it at that point) It looks to me like your argument is that AlphaZero is mafia because he set himself up to bus sandroba but then just decided not to. I could buy this if there was any hope of keeping sandroba alive, but there clearly wasn't? We could be viewing two sides of the same coin? For example, in poker, there is the mathematically optimal way to play a hand; yet, that doesn't gurantee you win the pot. Somewhere along the lines, other human factors come into play. Some players, like yourself & Rayn veer towards the analytical approach to the game; others like town!sandroba veer towards the human intuition side, and then occasionally you get muppets like me that create lots of noise. BTW, my argument is that AlphaZero used push-pull to save Sandroba and maintain distance.. I read all his pushes as soft and I personally view AlphaZero push-pull defense of Sandroba as preventing him from bussing if that was a desired outcome - i.e. to jump in the last 5 hours would be sus.. and perhaps only rayn can resolve this via discussions from mason log
Like, why does this make AlphaZero mafia when what you (Mocsta) did, defending sandroba and looking for alternative wagons, presumably comes from town? How is what AlphaZero did any scummier or more mafia motivated than what you did? yep, after the fact, my play is anti-town. I reduce this to: 1. not trusting town, that they would come together and stick. like, what game locks in wagons 5 hrs before lynch. 2. being overly concerned about last minute majority flips i mean, if you examine the whats, perhaps there is an argument of similarity much like what you have poited. I know my why, i shared it. you can choose to believe it or not. It has become anti-town, and thats not the same as mafia up-side either. The elements I have identified consistently across 72hrs with AZ, for me, if i implemented that optionlaity opportunisticly, the why is mafia upsides each and every time. Yes, it's possible that AlphaZero is mafia and realized too late that he should bus sandroba and then decided it would be too suspicious to switch and just ended up not bussing him. I think AlphaZero is clearly a better player than this, but I can't entirely rule out the possibility. Even if you think "well Trfel, someone's gonna say that same argument you just said about why mafia would bus and how AlphaZero not joining the wagon doesn't make him mafia," you're not wrong, but this doesn't give him a reason to do this as mafia. AlphaZero not switching to sandroba didn't change the fact that sandroba was going to get lynched. In contrast, if AlphaZero switches to sandroba, he avoids all the knee-jerk "you didn't vote for mafia so you are mafia" scumreads. That's generally well worth it. Sure, AlphaZero could have realized he should bus too late, and maybe thought it would look too suspicious to switch votes late and decided to deal with the knee-jerk repercussions, but.... why? The point though is, AlphaZero as mafia doesn't gain anything by any of this. He didn't really attempt to defend his scumbuddy sandroba, and he didn't get any town credit for bussing. I don't think any of this is alignment indicative at all.
If you want to scumread AlphaZero for being wishy-washy on flipped mafia sandroba, this makes more sense to me. I don't think it's super strong or anything, but I think it's at least a reasonable argument that you can make. I don't think that you can conclude anything from AlphaZero not ending up on sandroba, however, because AlphaZero and sandroba (and presumably also mafia #3) didn't try to defend sandroba. I'm not trying to bash you for being wrong, my point is, I think it's distinctly possible (in fact, I think it's extremely likely) that AlphaZero is simply town and was wrong day 2. I don't think the argument for scumreading AlphaZero due to not voting for sandroba holds any water at all. I don't think the argument for scumreading AlphaZero for going back and forth on sandroba is very strong, though it's at least got a little merit. With those things being unclear, I think AlphaZero's day 1 was a very strong indication that he is town. So that's how I am reading him. Sure, he did a bunch of stuff that's not alignment indicative, but that's not going to change my townread because it's not alignment indicative. i'm going to give you benefit of the doubt and unvote i have considered a possibility that, in the same way, on d1, AZ couldnt write i was mafia, instead, accused of pushing mafia agenda. perhaps subconsciously he was hoping sandroba would be town (like i was) and MAYBE... that could be an internal resistance creating push-pull my plan for today is read the sandroba cases, figure out whose i liked and understand the most and i will sheep them queation.. in the same way that you believe scum!az should have bussed scum!sandro. why would scum!sandro attempt to bus DMB? how does this pairing work? I mean if you're seeing something I'm not seeing, by all means please explain. I could also just be wrong about my townread on AlphaZero. I'm merely saying that I don't think the day 2 stuff with sandroba is a very compelling reason for AlphaZero being mafia.
Why would you care about who had the most convincing case on sandroba being mafia? In a world where sandroba is being bussed, which I find incredibly likely, it's to mafia's advantage to make a convincing case as they bus, no? In fact, they know they're making a case on mafia, so if anything that gives them a slight advantage compared to town?
If anything, you should sheep whoever contributed the most to getting sandroba lynched. That'd be more like, who voted for sandroba early and convinced others to join, or who was the tipping point, or something like that.
Personally I think you'd be much, much, much better off playing for yourself, and that would be much more aligned with a town mindset and win condition, but I suppose it's your call.
As for sandroba and die_meatbaby: sandroba voted for die_meatbaby at a point when only raynpelikoneet was voting for sandroba. At the point when sandroba did so, it's pretty obvious that the wagon on Vivax isn't going to stay around, which is where all the votes are, so there's a bunch of votes that are going to need to go somewhere. Assuming sandroba and die_meatbaby are mafia together, die_meatbaby isn't in a great spot, since not that many people townread her and I am voting for her. Sandroba also left himself in a spot where he could switch votes to raynpelikoneet or Koshi, which for a while seemed like possible wagons (raynpelikoneet moreso than Koshi in the end). I think it's maybe a slight indication that they aren't mafia together? But I don't think it is anywhere near ruling it out, I think a non-associative read on die_meatbaby has much more weight.
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scott31337On June 08 2024 02:23 scott31337 wrote:Possibly, but I'd like to know your reasoning for such. On June 08 2024 02:33 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 02:27 rsoultin wrote:On June 08 2024 02:23 scott31337 wrote:On June 08 2024 02:19 rsoultin wrote:
Can we lynch sandy? Possibly, but I'd like to know your reasoning for such. well, narcissism originally haha >< i wanted credit for my truffle read he stole and took all the nuance out of but then he stayed on your stuff after rereading the whole thread and idk feels like there's a lot more going on at this stage i was also feeling icky about the mocsta - kelsier interaction but on rereading the filters separately it seems fine Did anything else stick out in their filters? Hypothetically if Sandroba was off the table, who else would you be interested in lynching? On June 09 2024 06:25 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 06:08 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 09 2024 05:49 scott31337 wrote:
I'm happy to answer any questions as best I can as well.
In a few I'm going to take a nap/rest and be back a few hours before deadline.
I'm content with my vote on keisl3r still at this time. Thoughts on Sandro rayn and rsoul I haven't liked Sandroba from the start. Probably my #3 scum behind AZ. (Keis is 1st ATM) (...) On June 09 2024 06:54 scott31337 wrote:The major thing(s) with Sandroba is - Show nested quote +On June 07 2024 23:21 sandroba wrote: June 07 2024 10:21 EDT
I actually like k3lsier too, 0 fucks given on mocsta interaction, seems very townie to me And then went to Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 05:43 sandroba wrote: June 07 2024 16:41 EDT
I'm getting weird vibes from kelsier too, but it's not overriding my town read from the mocsta interaction. I'd say I'd prefer if we left him be for today There was a post from Keis - Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 04:05 Kelsi3r wrote:
I like sandro on a filter dire
dont like oats and then dmb/slam havedone fuck all And there's been no Keisler posts from her second message to this Show nested quote +On June 08 2024 06:01 sandroba wrote:
Rayn on rsoul: I had similar thoughts to her from reading the initial pages and had a town lean. Her random call out on me seems contrived because she herself does not comment on anything else besides accusing me of lack of commentary. If she really believes I missed something important or more telling than the stuff on scott I would expect she would have commented on that when re-entering the thread. She is in the null pile
on kelsier his dismissive attitude towards mocsta's post and not making an effort to understand where he was coming from was totally carefree, it felt really townie I just have no ideas of her thoughts besides lynch scott - maybe oats townlean and rsoul null. On June 09 2024 07:50 scott31337 wrote:
I would be down for Sandroba as well but I don't think we got the bodies in the thread On June 09 2024 11:07 scott31337 wrote:
Dangit
I still want AZ or Sandroba for tomorrow
Marv/Rayn wild card On June 09 2024 12:57 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. Sandroba? AZ? An experienced like rayn/koshi? Alakaslam? On June 10 2024 06:27 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 06:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 10 2024 06:24 scott31337 wrote:
I think it's OMGUS personally who? why? DMB and Vivax I've seen two town bitch at each other and reminds me of such from the past This quote is unrelated but I'm putting it here because I want to reference it later, deal with it.
Next is a list post with sandroba, Alakaslam, and AlphaZero as scumreads, and Vivax as town. Not going to quote it because it'd take up a lot of space but it's #2238 if you care.On June 10 2024 11:22 scott31337 wrote:
I'm going to sheep your case Trfel.
I do want to hear Koshi's thoughts though. (on Vivax)On June 11 2024 03:36 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel I'm not voting for DMB
Sandroba or Slam. Sandroba did not win me over at all with their posting even if they "townread" me now. I note that this actually looks quite good for scott31337. This was even before Koshi's vote onto sandroba.
But why does scott31337 drop a mini-case on sandroba (post #3354, at June 11 21:24 EDT) when there are already seven votes on sandroba? The only reason I can think of to do this is if (1) scott31337 wants to justify his scumread of sandroba or (2) scott31337 wants to look good when sandroba flips mafia. Both reasons make me inclined to think that scott31337 is mafia?
Conclusion
I dunno. It does seem a little suspicious that scott31337 was suspicious of sandroba day 1 but not willing to lynch him for quite a while (until it was most likely too late), but it's also reasonable that he could do this as town. Part of me wants to scumread him for having Vivax as town and three others (including sandroba) as mafia going into day 2 and then voting for Vivax, but idk. Scott31337 did say that he thinks the argument between Vivax and die_meatbaby was town vs town, and he put Vivax as town in his end of night post, but then said he would sheep my case. The thing is, what case exactly? I'd posted some reasons to suspect Vivax already, but that was six hours earlier, and it hadn't seemed very motivating to scott31337 at the time.On June 10 2024 11:09 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 05:02 marvellosity wrote:On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:VivaxVivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. For some reason it took me a long time to understand this. But having spent said time, I think it’s a good case Hmmm Maybe the fact that marvellosity flipped town made scott31337 reconsider my case? Or because I was asking for people to vote for Vivax. Both are plausible.
In the end I don't have any super strong reasons to think scott31337 is mafia. I also don't have any great reasons to think scott31337 is town. I'm inclined to lean town in the end because I think coming up with reasons to scumread people is much better than coming up with reasons to townread people (thus, no reasons to scumread = not mafia), and I'm hesitant to lynch him, but I absolutely could be wrong.
Note that this is ignoring the last few pages in scott31337's filter because for now, I am forced to assume that he was too drunk to think clearly when posting. Part of me wants to lynch him for this series of posts because it was really awful and I don't want this to be a valid excuse for getting out of suspicion, but most of me is fine to just ignore it.
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On June 13 2024 15:48 scott31337 wrote:
Trfel do you want to lynch me today?
Are you town?
Are you willing to vote for AlphaZero? No, yes, probably not.
Please go to bed? I'm not going to respond to anything else you say until you get some rest.
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I'm trying to consider if AlphaZero could be mafia.
I think his day 1 play is a strong indication that he is town. But I can't rule out that he is just a really good mafia player. Thing is, if he's mafia, he put in a bunch of extra work day 1 purely so people like me would read him town for it?
But like... if he's mafia, he shot marvellosity, realistically I am the only other person that I think would put much weight in this. Would he really go through all that work just to pocket me? Maybe it's reasonable for him to think raynpelikoneet might think similarly? (that didn't happen of course but maybe AlphaZero thought it might?)
But if I throw that out, why is AlphaZero town? I'm not sure. His play is very logical, but he clearly knows what he is doing, regardless of alignment, so it's reasonable to think he can exhibit strong logical thinking even as mafia.
Ugh, the same argument I just used to say scott31337 is maybe town also applies here (if there is no reason to scumread someone, they're probably town). But AlphaZero is a high caliber player, maybe they're just good enough to make it hard to find reasons to scumread them and I'm just not able to see it?
It's a very tinfoily world. Discard a reason to townread someone, and then they are mafia only because they are a good player and therefore able to not give you reasons to suspect them So I don't want to live in this world unless I absolutely have to.
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Don't worry Mocsta, I didn't have a reason to vote for sandroba. I was doing the thing I did with Vivax again
Key difference is that Vivax kept playing when there were votes on him. Sandroba didn't. Had sandroba shown fight and defended himself and worked to find mafia, I would have voted for someone else. As he continued to not do so, that told me he was mafia.
Very very slow to figure it out but better late than never I guess?
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On June 13 2024 16:09 Koshi wrote:
I think the last 2 mafia are slam & scott.
But maybe not. I can theoretically get behind Alakaslam being mafia. But why scott31337? Haven't you been reading him as one of your top towns?
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On June 13 2024 16:11 AlphaZero wrote:
If i am mafia I shot two people who hard town read me.
Not smart. Yeah there's also that.
I'm just in a spot where all my reads seem wrong, and you being mafia is a relatively clean explanation for that?
But I don't think it is very likely at all, just can't completely ignore the possibility. It's much more likely because I am off of my game.
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Can I just say:
If someone says they have a power role for no reason, when saying so makes no sense, they probably are joking? And even if they are serious, it's best to ignore it until later?
Just like you should keep discussing things at night?
And don't make associative reasons for people to not be mafia unless you are absolutely sure?
Gosh, when did I become the thread police
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On June 13 2024 16:19 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 16:15 Trfel wrote:On June 13 2024 16:11 AlphaZero wrote:
If i am mafia I shot two people who hard town read me.
Not smart. Yeah there's also that. I'm just in a spot where all my reads seem wrong, and you being mafia is a relatively clean explanation for that? But I don't think it is very likely at all, just can't completely ignore the possibility. It's much more likely because I am off of my game. I think your Scott read has just been wrong tbh. Game is really straightforward after that. Ahhh but I keep looking at his filter and I don't know why he is mafia Maybe my expectations are too low?
There's the opening thing with mason/whisperer
He accused you of being mafia for changing your reads
His case on you wasn't very good
Not re-evaluating
Are those the reasons? Or are there others? If it's easier to point me to a quote or a few quotes that's fine too.
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@Koshi, oh, that's really interesting. I didn't think about that.
Hmmm.....
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Feels easy, three lowest activity players are mafia?
I mean sometimes it happens, but I think it's easy to arrive at that conclusion by finding bad reasons to townread strong mafia players.
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On June 13 2024 16:29 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 16:28 Trfel wrote:
Feels easy, three lowest activity players are mafia?
I mean sometimes it happens, but I think it's easy to arrive at that conclusion by finding bad reasons to townread strong mafia players. I think mocsta is mafia, so there is the active mafia. Was responding to Koshi, but fair. I'm genuinely shocked that Mocsta would give up his vote, that makes no sense at all for town and I could see it being a silly thing mafia tries so they have a "reason" to vote and no responsibility.
Unless he's joking and I fell for it ><
And yeah it's very possible I am just being really bad. Unfortunately it's hard to just get gud
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On June 13 2024 16:40 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 13:15 Trfel wrote:
I'm honestly confused as to who even thinks what, it feels like everyone's reads have changed significantly since the sandroba flip. Maybe I'm the stupid one for not changing my reads tbh.
Side note, I don't find the whole "scott31337 slipped that die_meatbaby is town" thing very compelling. I think it makes sense from the perspective of someone who is (theoretically) town and is overconfident in pre-flip reads. As in, it matches the rest of the way scott31337 has played.
First question, why does scott31337 scumread AlphaZero and townread Mocsta? He posted some (imo weak) reasons. In fact, scott31337 literally says "I appreciate his attempts, but it's not a win over" when referring to Mocsta's case of scott31337's strongest scumread, AlphaZero. But he says these are the best reasons to scumread AlphaZero. Basically I'm supposed to believe that sscott31337 thinks that this case that he doesn't think is all that strong is the best case against AlphaZero, yet he's still extremely confident in AlphaZero being mafia? Strong enough to base the rest of his reads off of AlphaZero being mafia, anyway ><
Second point, sandroba voted for scott31337 early day 1 and left his vote there. However, sandroba didn't post from page 24 until after the day 1 deadline. I think it's quite possible for sandroba to vote for his mafia partner, and then something comes up and he can't change it, even if it's a close vote against a townie.
Third point, scott31337 voted for sandroba at 4:11p EDT June 10. He was the third person to do so (after raynpelikoneet and Koshi). Would scott31337 do this as mafia? It looks like it's Koshi's vote that directly prompts him to do this (scott31337 notes Koshi's vote at 4:10p EDT and then votes for sandroba one minute later). This is about halfway through sandroba's series of catchup posts. From one perspective, it feels a little early to bus, since sandroba is actually posting at this time, but from another perspective, it feels like a good time to get a vote down, one which he can move later if needed. But, did scott31337 set himself up to move? Scott31337 was scumreading sandroba, Alakaslam, and AlphaZero. He also said he wouldn't vote for die_meatbaby.
I actually think this (point 3) is a decent reason to townread scott31337. Sandroba (flipped mafia) was reading Koshi, raynpelikoneet, die_meatbaby, and Alakaslam as potential mafia. He later says that he would vote for any of raynpelikoneet, die_meatbaby, or Koshi. He doesn't suggest voting for Alakaslam at all. Scott31337 set himself up to vote for sandroba, Alakaslam, or AlphaZero. Maybe I'm overthinking it but if scott31337 and sandroba are mafia together here, why wouldn't they suggest lynching Alakaslam (assuming Alakaslam is town for the moment)? I just think it doesn't make much sense for mafia to walk themselves into voting separately or hoping that town randomly shenanigans onto the one scumread they have in common. Like, if scott31337 and sandroba are mafia together here, scott31337 saying he won't vote for die_meatbaby makes it extremely unlikely for sandroba to survive. Scott31337 actually re-evaluates die_meatbaby the next day, around 12p EDT June 11, and commits to not switching. To be fair, by this point there are a large number of votes on sandroba and sandroba stopped posting.
Maybe this isn't as strong as I thought. Maybe just a slight reason to townread scott31337. I do think it's not completely negligible though. This has the ring of great wisdom Glad you think so, I thought I said a ton of nothing
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Is it bad that I actually kinda want to lynch Alakaslam because he said my own post sounded smart and I disagree? xD
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On June 10 2024 12:02 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 11:54 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 11:47 Trfel wrote:
Die_meatbaby, do you have a read on scott31337 yet?
Either way though, look at it this way:
1. Scott31337 is town. This means that town spent the vast majority of day 1 focusing on town wagons (Kelsi3r and scott31337), so mafia didn't have to do anything but sit there and watch. In this context, does AlphaZero's play (huge push for lynching scott31337, to the point of great frustration) make sense? Yes it's theoretically possible, but it's so much simpler for AlphaZero to just be town. Mafia players (alignment) don't tend to go through tons of extra work if they don't have to.
2. Scott31337 is mafia. Why on earth would AlphaZero spend all day pushing his scum buddy scott31337 against so much resistance? And even if this is what happened, if he was trying to bus scott31337, then why wouldn't scott31337 give up, since he knows he is being bussed? It's theoretically possible for them to both be mafia and for things to play out like they did but it's not realistic at all. I still believe scott is somehow town. I said it before most of the time we have t vs t lynch on d1. I will tomorrow take time to filter everybody reread the game and make a list post. For now I will go to sleep. You can't honestly tell me you are going to read 111+ pages tomorrow? That's simply not realistic. Plus filters on top? This is the kind of thing I find suspicious. "sorry I've been inactive I will catch up now" "I'll have more time tomorrow and will play properly" "stuck at work, tomorrow I will be here" "now I will have real time to play" "sorry work was busy so I will go to sleep and reread the game tomorrow" "I'll try more when more people are active" "I'm sorry I didn't play yesterday due to work, I'll start playing as soon as the night phase is over" "I'll post my scumreads before the night ends" "oops my nap was too long, [random names of people who might be mafia with no reason]" "I'll have a lot of time the next two days" "tomorrow I will filter everyone and reread the game and post my reads" When does it end? @Alakaslam, I believe this is the best reason for die_meatbaby being mafia.
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Hm...
I have a vague memory that last time Alakaslam was mafia, he was much more direct. His posts would critique people's thinking and would contain reasons to suspect people.
Here, he's just commenting anything and everything, in fact more often than not it's not a reason to suspect someone.
Maybe this makes him town, because it's different? Or does it make him mafia, because he doesn't have a ton of thoughts about who is mafia? Or is it just a bad rationale because the vague memory is quite old?
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On June 13 2024 17:01 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 16:44 Trfel wrote:
Is it bad that I actually kinda want to lynch Alakaslam because he said my own post sounded smart and I disagree? xD Yes because there are much better reasons to scum read me. Person who posts them gets the award of "this person actually reads and analyzes with heuristics and not pure meta" award Unfortunately I am not perceptive enough to obtain such precious knowledge
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I need to go to sleep soon. I will think about scott31337.
I guess it has seemed like he's been much more focused on getting AlphaZero lynched than he has been on finding mafia. Is this reasonable? In his eyes, AlphaZero is mafia because AlphaZero was scumreading him. But Day 2, when AlphaZero stopped actively pushing the scott31337 scumread, scott31337's view didn't change at all?
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On June 13 2024 17:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Trfel why do you think youre not dead? Hard to say exactly, I'm not very good at interpreting night kills to be honest. I wasn't expecting to die though, I'm clearly off my game and don't have the motivation that many other players do.On June 13 2024 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Trfel thoughts on Mocsta?
Can you fucking see he is only working with whatever the thread sentiment is at times? That.... wasn't my perception? I mean, sure, sometimes he follows the thread sentiment, but I think it would be hard for someone to never ever follow the thread sentiment? Can you be more specific about what you are seeing that is mafia indicative?On June 13 2024 19:37 AlphaZero wrote:
This game is fairly straightforward from now on.
Mafia is in dmb/scott/mocsta with an outside chance of vivax.
Everyone else is much too likely to be town. Probably fair. But also tinfoil, you know?
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On June 14 2024 02:50 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2024 12:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
Mafia pls kill trfel I don’t wanna die Maybe Trfel is mafia for that night kill. Just so he could have something to laugh about. I mean, if I was mafia I probably wouldn't have listened to Oatsmaster's plea here.
Probably.
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On June 14 2024 02:55 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 02:54 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 02:50 Vivax wrote:On June 12 2024 12:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
Mafia pls kill trfel I don’t wanna die Maybe Trfel is mafia for that night kill. Just so he could have something to laugh about. I mean, if I was mafia I probably wouldn't have listened to Oatsmaster's plea here. Probably. Idk it would be an evil mastermind move. Are you into that ? I did shoot myself once before as mafia.
But it was an in-person game where I was highly townread and doctor saves are notified, I thought it would be an awesome play. Unfortunately I was unaware that we'd forced a mislynch on the doctor the day before, so it didn't work out, but it would have been great
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I can't pinpoint exactly why but I am not very impressed by scott31337's posts this past hour or so.
After last night I was expecting..... something different?
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On June 14 2024 04:46 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 04:41 Trfel wrote:
I can't pinpoint exactly why but I am not very impressed by scott31337's posts this past hour or so.
After last night I was expecting..... something different? Do I need to re-read from last night when I was tipsy? Not a whole lot stood out when I started from where my subscribed thread meter was at. Idk... You can't just post as egregiously as you did and then come back to business as usual, surely?
It feels belligerent, flaunting even. "Look what I can get away with!"
It makes me not want to let you get away with it.
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I'm here until I fall asleep again I guess?
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Wait, Mocsta, what's wrong?
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On June 14 2024 10:34 Alakaslam wrote:I mean he has a lot more reason than I did, in the context of the game. Shit is getting tough globally too it seems but honestly things are not going well for Moc as either alignment here I guess I'm confused. Admittedly I haven't been super focused, but there's still over 24 hours to go?
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I'm sorry Mocsta, for what it's worth I've enjoyed playing with you
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Hey Vivax, why would you mason me if you aren't going to say anything? Is this some crazy scheme to try and incriminate me or something?
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I dunno. I don't think it's AlphaZero, and I don't think it's Mocsta. But I also don't have the energy to read carefully enough to make an informed opinion, and even if I did, I wouldn't have the energy to push for it.
I guess I can politely suggest that we lynch someone else, probably die_meatbaby, but I completely understand if you don't listen to me. I highly doubt I would if I was in your shoes.
I'm sorry for playing so poorly You guys deserve better.
Raynpelikoneet said he thinks Mocsta is mafia in post #4094. Maybe there's something to it, I don't really think so, but we'll find out tomorrow I suppose. Hope you guys are right.
Idk, much of it comes down to Mocsta thinking the same things I did, right? I get that those things weren't great, it's even possible that they were 100% wrong, but I am town and I thought those things, can I really say that it makes someone else mafia for thinking that way too?
I don't care for the analysis of Alakaslam asking for replacement and then coming back. I don't care for analysis of Mocsta quitting. I think those things are non alignment indicative, hard to get accurate conclusions from, and even if they aren't, I think it's detrimental to the game.
I'd lynch die_meatbaby or probably scott31337. I think I just have to accept never having a read on Alakaslam. I look over his filter and he's at 11 pages but I don't feel like he has done very much, so it's hard for me to conclude much.
But then again there's Vivax who decided to mason me and also ignore me and I have no idea what that means :/
If anyone wants to talk, let me know. Not that I have anything useful to say, but I can try.
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Oh and I don't think AlphaZero is mafia either. You guys can lynch them if you want, you won't have my vote, but I don't have the energy or confidence to argue against.
I'll just say that I keep telling die_meatbaby why I think she is mafia, other people keep presenting strong reasons why die_meatbaby could be mafia, I keep reaching out to her and asking for help to understand what's going on, and she has been pretty consistently ignoring all of it.
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AlphaZero, you want me to explain why I think Mocsta is town because you disagree right? Not to convince everyone else?
I am also willing to vote for scott31337. Whatever seems more reasonable.
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I'm sorry Mocsta, I know you just said you don't want to talk about AlphaZero but can I at least make sure I am understanding you correctly? You say AlphaZero is mafia because he always has an explanation that defends his actions?
Also, do you think die_meatbaby or scott31337 might be mafia? Sorry I know it's probably in your filter but I am worn out
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Mocsta, why would you ever post like that >< If I go to any of those links it quotes it in a TL.net post preview. C'mom man, I just wanted to read what you had to say
In all seriousness though, I'll try and work through that. I appreciate it.
AlphaZero, I get that. Did my discussion with Mocsta about your alignment have any effect on your read of Mocsta?
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Also hey, look, it's me! I remember that game
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Read your first post. I respect the work you put into it but I'm honestly not sure if there is a distinct difference that I would put a lot of confidence in. This may be due to my aversion to meta reads though.
I just don't like to clear someone if I am not 100% sure. I've seen so many games go awry due to clearing someone for poor reasons and then making up reasons to find other people mafia as a result. Imo if you just keep most people on the table and look for reasons to suspect people instead of reasons to clear people, you're better off.
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I can see what you're saying about the sandroba stuff. Maybe you're right, I just have a hard time putting much weight into associations unless it's extreme.
Rsoultin pushing sandroba half of day 1 and then being replaced by Koshi who pushed sandroba all of day 2? I can get behind that.
Less than that? Tbh, even if you can break it down and correctly analyze why mafia wouldn't have done something, turns out mafia makes mistakes sometimes too. Maybe they made a judgement error and then did something that you can correctly analyze as incorrect.
Not that it doesn't have any merit, but it's hard for me to weigh it against non-associative reasons. Bleh, maybe I need to use my computer again
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On June 14 2024 15:33 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 15:32 Trfel wrote:
Read your first post. I respect the work you put into it but I'm honestly not sure if there is a distinct difference that I would put a lot of confidence in. This may be due to my aversion to meta reads though.
I just don't like to clear someone if I am not 100% sure. I've seen so many games go awry due to clearing someone for poor reasons and then making up reasons to find other people mafia as a result. Imo if you just keep most people on the table and look for reasons to suspect people instead of reasons to clear people, you're better off. That's fair and understandable. I think the most important part was the last paragraph about sandroba this game though? Do you disagree? I think it makes sense in the context that sandroba probably didn't expect to go afk for so long. I think it's quite reasonable for mafia to vote a partner early in a day tbh. If they can defend themselves, great, just say their defense makes sense and you changed your mind! If not, you have an early bus, and they probably weren't surviving anyway.
Scott31337 being mafia doesn't feel right to me so I am open to that being wrong. I do have a little more confidence in the die_meatbaby vote.
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On June 14 2024 15:49 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 09:27 Grackaroni wrote:
Day Three Vote Count
Mocsta (5): die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, AlphaZero, Alakaslam, Vivax
die_meatbaby (1): Koshi, Vivax
AlphaZero (1); Scott31337, Mocsta
Scott31337 (0): Trfel, AlphaZero, Alakaslam
Not Voting: Trfel, Mocsta
With 5 votes, Mocsta is currently set to be lynched!
The deadline is Saturday, Jun 15 2:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
Koshi first post in the game: Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 13:17 Koshi wrote:On June 09 2024 11:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Koshi what did your role pm say That I am mafia with marv, mocsta and sandroba. I suppose if you and Mocsta are mafia you'd be at a 75% read accuracy, which is pretty impressive for having just replaced in
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On June 14 2024 15:51 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 15:41 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:32 Trfel wrote:
Read your first post. I respect the work you put into it but I'm honestly not sure if there is a distinct difference that I would put a lot of confidence in. This may be due to my aversion to meta reads though.
I just don't like to clear someone if I am not 100% sure. I've seen so many games go awry due to clearing someone for poor reasons and then making up reasons to find other people mafia as a result. Imo if you just keep most people on the table and look for reasons to suspect people instead of reasons to clear people, you're better off. That's fair and understandable. I think the most important part was the last paragraph about sandroba this game though? Do you disagree? I think it makes sense in the context that sandroba probably didn't expect to go afk for so long. I think it's quite reasonable for mafia to vote a partner early in a day tbh. If they can defend themselves, great, just say their defense makes sense and you changed your mind! If not, you have an early bus, and they probably weren't surviving anyway. Scott31337 being mafia doesn't feel right to me so I am open to that being wrong. I do have a little more confidence in the die_meatbaby vote. yeahi agree about voting early in the day -> you are talking about optionality.. and to me, AlphaZero goes about optionality slightly differently. i mean, i know people say they dont understand my read progressions. yet, this is completely different to AZ where people distill his sandroba read as town, even though he has posts to defend he thought sandroba was scummy the actions do not line up with the words & it is the actions that i believe led people like me (maybe rayn) to mentalise that az townread sandroba I'm sorry, could I ask for clarification about what you mean here? Is this supposed to be a reason to suspect AlphaZero? Is it because he says things about being suspicious about sandroba but also is defending sandroba?
Because that wasn't my interpretation of what happened tbh.
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On June 14 2024 15:52 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 10:25 Mocsta wrote:
I'm not playing anymore
Go ahead and vote me off
Last post
Which you can reread after my town flip
I am not voting this cycle either as a fuck you to Rayn
He's just butthurt he got a few votes last cycle. That's it
Putting this game on pause for half a day was really good to crystalize some thoughts
Firstly, I stand by this for post game that the rayn/az mason is an important parcel.of information for how d2 went down when talking about bussing optionality.
We very likely expect d1 mafia received whisper and did not use.
Presumably it is the same d3 as no one has said they are masoned.
I conclude d2 Rayn/az is either town town or one is mafia.
Why is this relevant.
We don't know what was said but we know both players must remain increasingly consistent and cautious compared to theead-only players.
My point is this. I thought alpha townread sandroba regardless of what was in filter
Even Rayn my biggest antagonist agrees he thought alpha townread sandroba because of filter.
I don't believe Rayn is scum at all. He will say it's to save my neck I will say it's because I have seen what I expect from town Rayn which is an intelligent player that likes his butt being licked real clean and I just won't do that. I never agreed that one post was a good reason to lynch sandroba and here I am now burning as if a witch when I bleed the same as the rest of yoh. That's precisely why I think Rayn is town.
Alpha is scum.
His game is a fancy take on poilicy ynch.. you are not playing with correct principles.. even burn as a witch Rayn does not take it that far.
Alpha because he started captivating with some red flags has been a big contributor for the shit town culture of d1 and d2. Again I stand by that if somehow he was town.
His game has already allowed him an out which he throws out ready to go.. again. Town might like this because it feels good yet who else is doing this? Fuckn no one else because it's scummy and defensive instead of solving the game.
I'm not sure why koshi thought alpha rage fuxk you was legit. The post was clearly manicured which completely goes against the idea of rage.
Alphazero is my top scum read. I don't know who he is partnered with. Probably one of dmb or vivax.
I don't know how to choose. I agree with sandroba here who agrees with trfel that dmb could be beneficial to take out regardless of alignment when you to the last scum. Not this lynch.
Lastly Scott who is controversial. I spent this morning reviewing past game. Firstly his games are really low post count yet even going to d4 mafia in some his style/meta is very clear..
Again read this through eyes of town once I flip. Scott is town.
His mafia game is fundamentally very different and more narrative driven.
Yes Scott has shifted since n2 and I believe it's completely town plausible based on:
1. He feels vindicated with sandroba lynch
2. Was assuming less heat in him accordingly
3. Felt more puzzle pieces in place to solve game
It's a natural confidence boost.
The mental state 12 hrs ago no idea.. like trfel i ignore it
I will vote alpha for those who see the light
I have no response for Rayn. I'm town I've been completely honest with him and he is tunneled. I don't have the time to prove to him I'm town so here I burn.. like it doesn't matter what I say to Rayn. He won't take it I and accept.
Rayn again because of this. I believe you are town. Yep that's the type of player I look at you as even though yes I respect you are very good.
[B##vote: alphazero
The alpha push pull plus mason logs combination should not
be ignored.
Yeah Mocsta is town and the final answer is DMB/AZ [/b]But that drops you down to a measly 25% first post read accuracy
That's like... the RNG rate. So much for bragging points I guess.
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Also @Mocsta, if at any time you want to focus on work or family or other things I completely get it and respect that. I don't want to interfere with your life, you've already put a lot of time into this game with a 19 page filter and lots of analysis and all. While I appreciate the help, I don't want to interfere with other things you have going on.
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Okay I know I messed it up too but if anyone quotes that again can we please delete the extra end bold tag? ><
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On June 14 2024 16:01 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 15:53 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:51 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:41 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:32 Trfel wrote:
Read your first post. I respect the work you put into it but I'm honestly not sure if there is a distinct difference that I would put a lot of confidence in. This may be due to my aversion to meta reads though.
I just don't like to clear someone if I am not 100% sure. I've seen so many games go awry due to clearing someone for poor reasons and then making up reasons to find other people mafia as a result. Imo if you just keep most people on the table and look for reasons to suspect people instead of reasons to clear people, you're better off. That's fair and understandable. I think the most important part was the last paragraph about sandroba this game though? Do you disagree? I think it makes sense in the context that sandroba probably didn't expect to go afk for so long. I think it's quite reasonable for mafia to vote a partner early in a day tbh. If they can defend themselves, great, just say their defense makes sense and you changed your mind! If not, you have an early bus, and they probably weren't surviving anyway. Scott31337 being mafia doesn't feel right to me so I am open to that being wrong. I do have a little more confidence in the die_meatbaby vote. yeahi agree about voting early in the day -> you are talking about optionality.. and to me, AlphaZero goes about optionality slightly differently. i mean, i know people say they dont understand my read progressions. yet, this is completely different to AZ where people distill his sandroba read as town, even though he has posts to defend he thought sandroba was scummy the actions do not line up with the words & it is the actions that i believe led people like me (maybe rayn) to mentalise that az townread sandroba I'm sorry, could I ask for clarification about what you mean here? Is this supposed to be a reason to suspect AlphaZero? Is it because he says things about being suspicious about sandroba but also is defending sandroba? Because that wasn't my interpretation of what happened tbh. damn right its a reason to be suspicious of anyone whose words dont match behaviours. that applies in real-life and in this game we call mafia. we all saw in d1 how calculated alphazero can be with his approach to [b]command[/b[ attention. the expectations for words and behaviour *should* be higher for az than in comparison to for example slam its inexcusable that a player who command attention can have multiple people misread his intentions in such a push-pull way. Again, i stress this is not the same as me. with me, people do not understand how i connect A to Y (chose now to right Z for AZ lol) And yeah, i tsbecause clearly i seem to skip every letter inbetween and go ta-da I'm not accusing AlphaZero of that at all. I am accusing him that the pathway from A to B to C is too clean, meticulous and curated Thats not town play. I guess I thought AlphaZero's stance on sandroba was pretty clear, but maybe I'm somehow the only one? I have a really hard time thinking about this as AlphaZero's fault instead of the rest of yours though, tbh. Unless that's not what you're saying, I'm a little confused because for the first 2/3 of the post you seem to be saying that AlphaZero is scummy because he failed to communicate his view on flipped mafia sandroba in a way that others can understand, and in the last 1/3 you seem to be saying that his play is too clean and that makes it look fake. I guess I'm just not sure which one it is, or is it both? But they seem a little mutually exclusive, no?
Also, I really wouldn't recommend sheeping me, I have no idea what's what. You have been much more present and involved than I have for a while now, trust yourself. You're more than capable, you've got this.
Complete side note but... what if something stupid happened, like sandroba saw his role PM and was like, "this sucks, I don't want to play as mafia" so he went to his mafia chat and was like, "hey guys I don't want to play as mafia, I'm gonna do next to nothing, just bus me" and then rsoultin busses him and we're so bad that we still don't lynch him and eventually sandroba flips and there are a lot of associative reasons to townread mafia members, just because sandroba didn't want to play as mafia?
I don't mean to say that this is particularly likely, but I'd also say it's far from impossible, no? Maybe it's just me being bad at associate reads but I'd much, much, much rather read people mostly based on their own play. I just think there are so many fewer ways to screw it up.
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Dang it Koshi, you're just doing this to irritate me aren't you :/
##vote Koshi
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On June 14 2024 16:18 AlphaZero wrote:
(...)
you have literally implied almost the whole game could be mafia at this point, is this like a strat to quote yourself and show you were right when literally anyone flips mafia? Hey, can't argue with results!
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@Koshi:On June 09 2024 16:40 Koshi wrote:
Yeah we lynch sandroba->Mocsta (->Koshi) -> marv On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
So we can lynch them first and then battle it out. This is just a random thing I thought of a while ago, but can you explain this?
Let's imagine for a moment that you have transcended the bounds of possibility and were right on all these reads. How then, do you presume to lynch mafia!sandroba and mafia!Mocsta and go into a showdown with mafia!marvellosity, after you called out the entire mafia team three days previously, and not somehow get night killed along the way?
Or is this whole thing just fake?
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On June 14 2024 16:21 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:18 AlphaZero wrote:
Koshi why do you think mocsta is town based on that Appeal to emotion.
Because he is actually not playing in a way that aligns with that post.
I find his latter posts to lack emotional congruence with the rage quit post.
I guess I don;t get why you find it compelling.
Also what is it with your reads changing like leaves in the wind?
you have literally implied almost the whole game could be mafia at this point, is this like a strat to quote yourself and show you were right when literally anyone flips mafia? Yes. I think dmb is mafia. Anybody who is with me early on this is town. Hey, free townreads! Come and get them
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On June 14 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:22 Trfel wrote:@Koshi: On June 09 2024 16:40 Koshi wrote:
Yeah we lynch sandroba->Mocsta (->Koshi) -> marv On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
So we can lynch them first and then battle it out. This is just a random thing I thought of a while ago, but can you explain this? Let's imagine for a moment that you have transcended the bounds of possibility and were right on all these reads. How then, do you presume to lynch mafia!sandroba and mafia!Mocsta and go into a showdown with mafia!marvellosity, after you called out the entire mafia team three days previously, and not somehow get night killed along the way? Or is this whole thing just fake? Exavtly. I already said it once. If it is Mocsta why am I not dead yet. Then rayn just insulted everybod and their mothers iirc. But it isnt Mocsta. It is sandroba dmb and a mystery man Not my point though. I'm saying that I don't understand how you could have made these posts at this time. You're planning out a future that just isn't possible from a town perspective.
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On June 14 2024 16:28 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:27 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:On June 14 2024 16:22 Trfel wrote:@Koshi: On June 09 2024 16:40 Koshi wrote:
Yeah we lynch sandroba->Mocsta (->Koshi) -> marv On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
So we can lynch them first and then battle it out. This is just a random thing I thought of a while ago, but can you explain this? Let's imagine for a moment that you have transcended the bounds of possibility and were right on all these reads. How then, do you presume to lynch mafia!sandroba and mafia!Mocsta and go into a showdown with mafia!marvellosity, after you called out the entire mafia team three days previously, and not somehow get night killed along the way? Or is this whole thing just fake? Exavtly. I already said it once. If it is Mocsta why am I not dead yet. Then rayn just insulted everybod and their mothers iirc. But it isnt Mocsta. It is sandroba dmb and a mystery man Not my point though. I'm saying that I don't understand how you could have made these posts at this time. You're planning out a future that just isn't possible from a town perspective. Hmmm? Sure is possible. I think 3 people are mafia, I think who is the easiest to kill first, then repeat 2 times. Sure, if you conveniently ignore the fact that mafia would just night kill you.
It makes me wonder if you are mafia and you came up with the people you wanted to push and then this was natural from your mindset, since mafia don't really have to worry about getting shot? You can't seriously tell me you are town and expected to lynch three mafia in a row without getting shot first?
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On June 14 2024 16:47 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:14 Trfel wrote:Complete side note but... what if something stupid happened, like sandroba saw his role PM and was like, "this sucks, I don't want to play as mafia" so he went to his mafia chat and was like, "hey guys I don't want to play as mafia, I'm gonna do next to nothing, just bus me" and then rsoultin busses him and we're so bad that we still don't lynch him and eventually sandroba flips and there are a lot of associative reasons to townread mafia members, just because sandroba didn't want to play as mafia?
I don't mean to say that this is particularly likely, but I'd also say it's far from impossible, no? Maybe it's just me being bad at associate reads but I'd much, much, much rather read people mostly based on their own play. I just think there are so many fewer ways to screw it up. you've made your point very clear and I do agree. In that regard, slam/dmb i just dont know how to read. removing any associations, dmb play this game makes me want to lynch her which is what im finding hard to reconcile, as what i recall are her tunnel focuses have not resolved. again, removing associations, i find AZ scummy as fuck. yes, you've been really good to highlight to you dont see what im seeing. i dunno, could i be tunneled? Maybe, i dont think i should feel the way i do about another townie though. i dont mean to be disrespectful, its possibly a life experience thing but thats way too broad an assumption? i dunno. as im not really sure how to describe it further without resulting in accusations that could genuinely be insulting and are not intended as such. Show nested quote +I guess I thought AlphaZero's stance on sandroba was pretty clear, but maybe I'm somehow the only one? I have a really hard time thinking about this as AlphaZero's fault instead of the rest of yours though, tbh. i dont know what you mean by fault? my distillation of how az is playing? Again, i cant figure out the impasse we have to figure out how to adjust the message. My recollection is along the lines of: AZ: Sandroba is an F-Tier scum read --> is that not lock scum? AZ: Sandroba has posted dont lynch today -> why does it matter.. what was posted that was relevant to adjust read AZ: if sandroba is afk, then mafia how can this be anything but advocating for a policy (inactivity) lynch? -> that is within sandrobas power to control. do not forget, this applies to a F-tier read.. i mean.. c'mon. even i dont go out of my way to avoid voting someone like this Show nested quote +Unless that's not what you're saying, I'm a little confused because for the first 2/3 of the post you seem to be saying that AlphaZero is scummy because he failed to communicate his view on flipped mafia sandroba in a way that others can understand, and in the last 1/3 you seem to be saying that his play is too clean and that makes it look fake. I guess I'm just not sure which one it is, or is it both? But they seem a little mutually exclusive, no? i dunno what else to say.. what is sleight of hand? look at my left hand, whilst my right hand does something different. then lets all laugh together and enjoy the magic. AZ defends the D2 lynch and is quick fire to post that he indeed had a scumread on sandroba (i really hope this is correct as my memory is hazy now) That the left hand.. but what is the right hand doing? The votes say the right hand joined me on Rayn.. fuck DMB wagon.. why rayn which could have been a legit counter wagon to Sandroba at one point - and is a part of why rayn talks about about sandroba wagon being so hard (i hope at least) You are being razzle dazzled because AlphaZero is able to plug gaps that give you a sense of solving the game, but its all about him. I dont know what else to say.Maybe some super analytical players can backup every decision as clean as AlphaZero, yet i find you to be significantly more analytical than Alpha, and somehow have a messier filter.. how does this come about? This is all with associatives removed. If i add the associatves, the rayn mason log i think is important as it restricts a lot of freedom AZ has, because rayn has separate dialogue going on and potentially is even the main cause of push-pull i identified.. obviously this is too imaginary for you to walk along with me, so ignore as you need. Show nested quote +Also, I really wouldn't recommend sheeping me, I have no idea what's what. You have been much more present and involved than I have for a while now, trust yourself. You're more than capable, you've got this. presence isnt related to finding mafia. my point is, i dont want to throw my vote away again. i respect the way you are going about the game and thats why i said what i did. Will think about this.
For what it's worth, I could have a super clean filter if I wanted to. I just don't really care. I'm sure a player of AlphaZero's caliber would have no problems keeping a clean filter as town if they are so inclined. When I played years ago, even as town, I used to keep a word document with all my read progressions on everyone, the result is a perfectly clean filter
That said, the point of the majority of your post is actually reasonable. That's actually the kind of read I like, not saying "you screwed up here and you are bad and you aren't this bad as town" but saying, "your actions line up with mafia motivation." I'm not sure if I completely buy it because I don't think that AlphaZero worked very hard at all to keep sandroba alive, but I at least see where you are coming from and I appreciate that.
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die_meatbaby's reads
Vivax is town
rsoultin is maybe town
AlphaZero is maybe mafia?
AlphaZero is mafia, maybe Kelsi3r is mafia?
scott31337 is town
Koshi maybe town
(argument with Vivax spanning several posts, unclear conclusion but seems to indicate Vivax may be mafia)
sandroba, AlphaZero, and Vivax maybe mafia
marvellosity and Koshi town
Mocsta maybe mafia
Vivax maybe mafia
scott31337 town
Koshi town, scott31337 town, Trfel town, sandroba mafia, Mocsta mafia, Vivax mafia, AlphaZero unknown, raynpelikoneet unknown, Alakaslam unknown
sandroba mafia, Vivax unknown
(a few posts tangentially saying that sandroba and Mocsta are mafia)
AlphaZero and someone else (I think Mocsta but maybe scott31337) are mafia (context suggests Mocsta)
AlphaZero or Mocsta is mafia
scott31337 is maybe mafia
Note: die_meatbaby hadn't mentioned anything about Kelsi3r by post #655, but then voted for Kelsi3r in post #1122. In post #1008 die_meatbaby says she isn't happy with both wagons, which I guess matches settling for the better of two suboptimal wagons as the deadline approaches, but eh.
Second note:On June 10 2024 11:01 die_meatbaby wrote:
mocasta maybe red aswell On June 10 2024 11:08 die_meatbaby wrote:
I don´t understand mafia here right now. If somebody claims blue... why do they not kill mocstar.
Marv is always strong Town. But mafia shouldn´t be that scared of him on the n1 How can die_meatbaby both think Mocsta is maybe mafia and also be surprised at mafia not killing Mocsta? For her to actually be surprised at mafia not killing Mocsta, that means die_meatbaby thinks Mocsta is a power role, as he claimed. But then die_meatbaby would think that Mocsta is town, not maybe mafia? I know I asked about this before, but it still doesn't make any sense? Die_meatbaby responded that it was because she wasn't sure if the claim is true, and that it's strange that Mocsta didn't die to the night kill. But if she isn't sure if the claim is true, then why wouldn't mafia also be unsure? Why couldn't they just roleblock him? I just struggle to see this from a town perspective.
Third note:On June 10 2024 21:37 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 21:34 Vivax wrote:On June 10 2024 21:34 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 20:43 Koshi wrote:
I am 20000000% town on scott and if somebody calls him mafia I am just going to vote that person.
Like Vivax is. @vivax thats way to risky to post as mafia lol you have no clue sandro+mocstar+ xxx And I will fucking find out if you are the xxx On June 11 2024 03:57 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:50 Trfel wrote:
Nah you're fine Vivax. I just think die_meatbaby looks a lot like her mafia game. I dunno if you read much of that since we mislynched you day 1 but she's still coming up with anything and everything to avoid scum hunting. It's different on the surface (no crusade against Palmar, no overwhelming, constant anger) but deeper than that, it's very similar. Why do I avoid scum hunting? I told you sandro what be my highest prefering lynch but I am fine with Vivax as well The first quote indicates that die_meatbaby finds Mocsta more suspicious than Vivax. The second quote seems very opportunistic, it feels like it's there to justify having voted for Vivax, because conveniently there was a wagon on Vivax at this time.
Fourth note: die_meatbaby's reads this game just feel so repetitive. Let's just look at scumreads, since those are the important ones. She starts out scumreading AlphaZero, and eventually adds sandroba and Mocsta, and then considers Vivax and maybe scott31337 right at the end. That just seems incredibly close-minded for a game in mid day 3.
Add on all the excuses, and the random warning to Oatsmaster not to do something that would make it clear he is mafia, and townreading scott31337 because he looks scummy as town, and I think it's quite reasonable to lynch die_meatbaby here. I could absolutely be wrong, I don't trust my grasp of the game very much right now, but it's the best I've got at this time.
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On June 14 2024 17:04 Mocsta wrote:
thansk trfel
appreciate you talking it out with me
im scooting now
will see where you are voting closer to deadline and make a decision from there Sounds good, take care of yourself and enjoy.
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For the record, that wasn't meant to be a case but an analysis. I agreed that in the first note, die_meatbaby's play made sense.
For the second note, though technically die_meatbaby posted after the day post, it doesn't read like she had seen the day post when she went to post this. But it doesn't matter too much.
You might be right, I haven't seen die_meatbaby play as town really so I don't know how it would come off to me. And although possible, this would require mafia to have double bussed day 2. But also, like, who else?
Scott31337? Doubt there is enough support, and imo there are some doubts there too...
Alakaslam? Eh...
Raynpelikoneet and Koshi were instrumental in lynching mafia yesterday. I don't see enough reason to ignore that.
You and Mocsta have been my strongest sources of logic, reasoning, and sense this game. Regardless of how correct your reads are, you've been the easiest people for me to reason with. And I think that goes a long way. Maybe I'm being super pocketed but it's how I am seeing it.
Leaves an active Vivax. Eh again. He feels underwhelming at times but quite solid at others.
Maybe this is me being bad and looking at reasons to townread instead of reasons to scumread, which tends to be much less effective for me. But also it's starting to get closer to the deadline and I'm just not as confident in anything as I'd like. I keep looking at scott31337 and Mocsta and it just doesn't feel quite right, I could absolutely see scott31337 being mafia and I could vote him but idk, now I'm just rambling, idk anymore.
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I do think die_meatbaby is a little more likely mafia than scott31337 but I'm not very confident in that difference.
But I think lynching die_meatbaby has more support than lynching scott31337?
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Sorry I forgot you wanted a town case on Mocsta.
Not really my thing. But here goes:
1. Easy to work with/talk to
Mocsta has been one of the easiest players to work with this game. He's very clear about where his thoughts are coming from, is willing to consider different angles, and readily gives feedback on other peoples' ideas.
2. Lots of independent analysis
Mocsta has done plenty of analysis here. Say what you want about the quality, but to me it shows that he is working to figure things out. I think he's made about as many analysis posts as anyone else.
3. Original thoughts
Mocsta often comes up with original thoughts that haven't been said by anyone else. This seems much more likely to come from someone who is thinking critically and trying to work things out.
I'm trying to understand why you two are so suspicious of each other. It felt like we were working together and seeing it so similarly day 2, and while we were wrong that day, that's not just something I throw away easily. See me working with Mocsta on his reasons for scumreading you, for example.
Maybe you're right on Mocsta. But if you are not, here is my guess as to why:
I think your expectations of Mocsta may be too high. He produces a lot of content and the scum hunting drive is clearly there. That said, I don't think his logic is on the same level as (for example) raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, Holyflare, people like that. Mocsta has his own, unique way of thinking about things, and while I think that's an asset, I think it may be throwing you off. I think you may be setting your expectations for Mocsta based on the amount of analysis he posts and the types of things he looks into, but then you hold him to a similar standard of logic and reasoning and that's just not the way he thinks and the result is that he seems scummy.
Could be wrong but that's my two cents.
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On June 14 2024 09:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 09:04 Vivax wrote:
I swear if I see slam on a scum list again
Ok what makes mocsta mafia allegedly ? Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 08:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 14 2024 08:16 Trfel wrote:
I'm here until I fall asleep again I guess? Can you read mocsta's posts when you have a chance, on D2? You are saying you can't see how he is going with the thread sentiment. I am saying he is like, Tferl votes vivax -> mocsta follows Trfel votes for dmb -> mocsta follows trfel says rayn is mafia -> mocsta follows trfel votes for sandroba -> mocsta doesnt follow, BUT says how rayn is mafia with sand/dmb mocsta has no doubt of trfels alignment ever. sandroba flips mafia, mocsta doesnt scumread rayn anymore. Makes sense how? AlphaZero, are you referring to this reasoning?
I think there's a big difference in original thoughts and leading vs following thread sentiment.
I don't think Mocsta's conclusions are particularly unique. But the thought process and arguments and reasoning that he takes to get there are. Big difference.
Raynpelikoneet is arguing that Mocsta is following thread sentiment, at least when it benefits him. I'm saying that Mocsta's reasoning that goes into his reads is original. Those things can coexist.
Again, I could absolutely be wrong on Mocsta, I think I have a soft spot for his posting style (he reads like an analysis first, thread presence second type of player, just like me) and I don't know how to un-bias myself from that.
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Also tbh I'm kinda disappointed that that took me 15-20 minutes to type up (on my phone) and you read it and responded in 3.
Like when you spend all day on this great meal and then everyone eats it in 10 minutes and that's that
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Guys, seriously?
If you want to say die_meatbaby is mafia, can we do so in a civil manner?
It's not fair to expect her to answer questions from three people at once. That's not realistic, regardless of alignment.
And there's no need to just bash on stuff.
I know I haven't done a good job myself of treating my mafia reads with respect and I'm sorry about that, but that felt a bit over the top.
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@die_meatbaby, I apologize for upsetting you. I have not been trying to avoid you at all, my schedule has been messed up. But you can't say that it's one way, there are many times you've seemingly left right as I have come to the thread, one time I think it was literally one minute. And more often than not, you haven't responded to me when you returned, either.
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On June 15 2024 01:43 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 00:39 Trfel wrote:
@die_meatbaby, I apologize for upsetting you. I have not been trying to avoid you at all, my schedule has been messed up. But you can't say that it's one way, there are many times you've seemingly left right as I have come to the thread, one time I think it was literally one minute. And more often than not, you haven't responded to me when you returned, either. My schedule was not the best I had 13 hour shift on d1 and on my days off we moved to another place. So time was also not mine. But for you I am also mafia because off me playing less as usual At some point imo if you are town you have to accept that you can't play as much as you would want to, stop making excuses, and do the best you can with the time you do have. I've been doing this, for example.
Why was scott31337 town to you early on? You said he was town because he looks scummy as town, but wouldn't he also look scummy as mafia? How do you tell the difference?
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If you're bored you should talk to me :/
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I dunno, who would be interested in lynching scott31337?
If I had to guess, I would think maybe AlphaZero might be interested? Maybe? Looks like Alakaslam too? Koshi doesn't seem to think so anymore, so I guess that's probably it. So unless something changes, I'll drop it for now.
Then I'm really starting to wonder if Vivax is mafia, honestly.
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Anyone else think Vivax is mafia?
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The lack of activity suggests to me that die_meatbaby is town. I would now like to lynch scott31337 or Vivax instead.
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It's probably too late but I might as well try.
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I guess die_meatbaby also didn't post anything, which doesn't make me want to keep her around tbh, but I think that if mafia were defending her it would be more vocal, and if mafia were bussing her, it would also probably be more vocal.
I guess I have to compensate for having bad reads by playing games to try and figure out who is mafia, bleh.
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On June 15 2024 08:07 die_meatbaby wrote:
I am finish with work. I am here. I have to catch up... Oh, look at the timing.
Seriously, can we lynch someone else? I'm sorry for being bad but I will try and compensate by being random and unpredictable and catching mafia off guard at least.
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On June 15 2024 08:09 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 07:59 Trfel wrote:
The lack of activity suggests to me that die_meatbaby is town. I would now like to lynch scott31337 or Vivax instead. I thought my activity problem here is one of the reasons why I am mafia in your eyes? No no no, not your lack of activity, the game's lack of activity.
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Maybe I'm just stupid. I'd hate to get cold feet and miss out on lynching mafia for no reason, and it's possible die_meatbaby is mafia and took my hesitation as a chance to jump in and defend herself.
But also maybe not.
Someone else say something?
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On June 15 2024 08:18 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:
Maybe I'm just stupid. I'd hate to get cold feet and miss out on lynching mafia for no reason, and it's possible die_meatbaby is mafia and took my hesitation as a chance to jump in and defend herself.
But also maybe not.
Someone else say something? I'm really sorry that I wasn't as active here as usual. I still tried to do my best with an absolutely shitty time management. Also you were kinda tunneld on me but that happend to me often enough too. Hm, I think you've had plenty of opportunities. I've reached out to you a ton. I wouldn't call that tunneled. More that there hasn't been much reason to think differently.
I'd lynch scott31337, I'd very likely lynch Vivax, I'd mayyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeee lynch raynpelikoneet but probably not today.
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On June 15 2024 08:34 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:30 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:18 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 15 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:
Maybe I'm just stupid. I'd hate to get cold feet and miss out on lynching mafia for no reason, and it's possible die_meatbaby is mafia and took my hesitation as a chance to jump in and defend herself.
But also maybe not.
Someone else say something? I'm really sorry that I wasn't as active here as usual. I still tried to do my best with an absolutely shitty time management. Also you were kinda tunneld on me but that happend to me often enough too. Hm, I think you've had plenty of opportunities. I've reached out to you a ton. I wouldn't call that tunneled. More that there hasn't been much reason to think differently. I'd lynch scott31337, I'd very likely lynch Vivax, I'd mayyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeee lynch raynpelikoneet but probably not today. You may be town, but still a bit of a dick. A covert one though. What did I do this time? Say I want to lynch you?
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On June 15 2024 08:36 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 07:59 Trfel wrote:
The lack of activity suggests to me that die_meatbaby is town. I would now like to lynch scott31337 or Vivax instead. wait.. whats different to the sandroba lynch? that was settled 5hrs before deadline Before the day 2 deadline:
30 minutes/page
1 hour/page
20 minutes/page
40 minutes/page
20 minutes/page
40 minutes/page
40 minutes/page
12 minutes/page
30 minutes/page
I think you see my point?
Compared to here, until I posted that I wanted a different lynch:
3 hours/page
2 hours/page
2 hours/page
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On June 15 2024 08:37 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:36 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:34 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:30 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:18 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 15 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:
Maybe I'm just stupid. I'd hate to get cold feet and miss out on lynching mafia for no reason, and it's possible die_meatbaby is mafia and took my hesitation as a chance to jump in and defend herself.
But also maybe not.
Someone else say something? I'm really sorry that I wasn't as active here as usual. I still tried to do my best with an absolutely shitty time management. Also you were kinda tunneld on me but that happend to me often enough too. Hm, I think you've had plenty of opportunities. I've reached out to you a ton. I wouldn't call that tunneled. More that there hasn't been much reason to think differently. I'd lynch scott31337, I'd very likely lynch Vivax, I'd mayyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeee lynch raynpelikoneet but probably not today. You may be town, but still a bit of a dick. A covert one though. What did I do this time? Say I want to lynch you? No you only look at surface level stuff. Or how compliant players are to your demands So if I were to translate from Vivax-speak, you're mad because I am ignoring your filter-length-town argument and am trying to gauge how much support there is for different lynches? When it's barely two hours until a deadline?
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On June 15 2024 08:44 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:42 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:37 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:36 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:34 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:30 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:18 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 15 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:
Maybe I'm just stupid. I'd hate to get cold feet and miss out on lynching mafia for no reason, and it's possible die_meatbaby is mafia and took my hesitation as a chance to jump in and defend herself.
But also maybe not.
Someone else say something? I'm really sorry that I wasn't as active here as usual. I still tried to do my best with an absolutely shitty time management. Also you were kinda tunneld on me but that happend to me often enough too. Hm, I think you've had plenty of opportunities. I've reached out to you a ton. I wouldn't call that tunneled. More that there hasn't been much reason to think differently. I'd lynch scott31337, I'd very likely lynch Vivax, I'd mayyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeee lynch raynpelikoneet but probably not today. You may be town, but still a bit of a dick. A covert one though. What did I do this time? Say I want to lynch you? No you only look at surface level stuff. Or how compliant players are to your demands So if I were to translate from Vivax-speak, you're mad because I am ignoring your filter-length-town argument and am trying to gauge how much support there is for different lynches? When it's barely two hours until a deadline? I gave you the reasons for me scumreading az in discord Don‘t act like I didn‘t when you didn‘t give any evaluation on them. Uh, what?
First, that has nothing to do with it, and second, I said that I looked into it and your reasons didn't make any sense?
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On June 15 2024 08:50 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 15 2024 08:45 Alakaslam wrote:On June 15 2024 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 15 2024 08:38 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 15 2024 08:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
My personal opinion is that the person who acted most suspiciously during D2 is Mocsta.
Then there is scott.
Then there is DMB.
Then there is AZ, and finally Vivax.
I think those 5 people have 2 mafia in them. That's my order of their scumminess. And with vivax it's even very very thin chance, since i think every single player other than me left in the game wanted to lynch vivax on D2 over a very thin flimsy case.
I have not however read properly what has happened after yesterday, i didn't have time, and i need to sleep soon. I am voting for dmb because i think Koshi has very good intuition, and he is town. So you voting me because of a read what somebody else made? Nice. Koshi didn´t even drop a fucking case. Trfl at least took the afford to explain why i look like scum Yes i am voting for you for a case someone else made. There is nothing wrong in that. *what* case? Trfel's and Koshi's, both are basically saying the same thing. Trfel who is voting Scott and is allergic to dmb lynch like me? To be fair I'm not voting scott31337 and only recently changed my mind about lynching die_meatbaby, but yeah I guess that's what he's saying.
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On June 15 2024 08:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:48 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:44 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:42 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:37 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:36 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:34 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:30 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:18 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 15 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:
Maybe I'm just stupid. I'd hate to get cold feet and miss out on lynching mafia for no reason, and it's possible die_meatbaby is mafia and took my hesitation as a chance to jump in and defend herself.
But also maybe not.
Someone else say something? I'm really sorry that I wasn't as active here as usual. I still tried to do my best with an absolutely shitty time management. Also you were kinda tunneld on me but that happend to me often enough too. Hm, I think you've had plenty of opportunities. I've reached out to you a ton. I wouldn't call that tunneled. More that there hasn't been much reason to think differently. I'd lynch scott31337, I'd very likely lynch Vivax, I'd mayyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeee lynch raynpelikoneet but probably not today. You may be town, but still a bit of a dick. A covert one though. What did I do this time? Say I want to lynch you? No you only look at surface level stuff. Or how compliant players are to your demands So if I were to translate from Vivax-speak, you're mad because I am ignoring your filter-length-town argument and am trying to gauge how much support there is for different lynches? When it's barely two hours until a deadline? I gave you the reasons for me scumreading az in discord Don‘t act like I didn‘t when you didn‘t give any evaluation on them. Uh, what? First, that has nothing to do with it, and second, I said that I looked into it and your reasons didn't make any sense? didn‘t make any sense *to you* see what I mean by entitlement How else am I supposed to evaluate something?
"Okay well this makes no sense to me but lemme get my buddy over here to see if it makes sense to them"
Like isn't that cheating?
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On June 15 2024 08:54 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:53 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:51 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:48 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:44 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:42 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:37 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:36 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:34 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:30 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Hm, I think you've had plenty of opportunities. I've reached out to you a ton. I wouldn't call that tunneled. More that there hasn't been much reason to think differently.
I'd lynch scott31337, I'd very likely lynch Vivax, I'd mayyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeee lynch raynpelikoneet but probably not today. You may be town, but still a bit of a dick. A covert one though. What did I do this time? Say I want to lynch you? No you only look at surface level stuff. Or how compliant players are to your demands So if I were to translate from Vivax-speak, you're mad because I am ignoring your filter-length-town argument and am trying to gauge how much support there is for different lynches? When it's barely two hours until a deadline? I gave you the reasons for me scumreading az in discord Don‘t act like I didn‘t when you didn‘t give any evaluation on them. Uh, what? First, that has nothing to do with it, and second, I said that I looked into it and your reasons didn't make any sense? didn‘t make any sense *to you* see what I mean by entitlement How else am I supposed to evaluate something? "Okay well this makes no sense to me but lemme get my buddy over here to see if it makes sense to them" Like isn't that cheating? Most of scumhunting is best done by gut the limitation is that we aren‘t able to put gut into words Maybe that's how it works for you, but that's not how it works for me.
You attacked my character, then attacked my reads, then lied about me not responding to your reasons to suspect AlphaZero, and now you're accusing me of not using my gut to find mafia?
Where on earth are you going with this?!?!! What is the point? I have no idea what you're trying to say, it seems like you are making up reasons to attack me and whenever I address them, you're deflecting and coming from a different angle?
But we aren't lynching Vivax?
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I'm starting to think I'd rather lynch Vivax than scott31337 in all honesty.
Masoning me, saying next to nothing, then this flurry or random, baseless accusations, including a literal lie?
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On June 15 2024 09:02 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:57 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:54 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:53 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:51 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:48 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:44 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:42 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:37 Vivax wrote:On June 15 2024 08:36 Trfel wrote:
[quote]What did I do this time? Say I want to lynch you? No you only look at surface level stuff. Or how compliant players are to your demands So if I were to translate from Vivax-speak, you're mad because I am ignoring your filter-length-town argument and am trying to gauge how much support there is for different lynches? When it's barely two hours until a deadline? I gave you the reasons for me scumreading az in discord Don‘t act like I didn‘t when you didn‘t give any evaluation on them. Uh, what? First, that has nothing to do with it, and second, I said that I looked into it and your reasons didn't make any sense? didn‘t make any sense *to you* see what I mean by entitlement How else am I supposed to evaluate something? "Okay well this makes no sense to me but lemme get my buddy over here to see if it makes sense to them" Like isn't that cheating? Most of scumhunting is best done by gut the limitation is that we aren‘t able to put gut into words Maybe that's how it works for you, but that's not how it works for me. You attacked my character, then attacked my reads, then lied about me not responding to your reasons to suspect AlphaZero, and now you're accusing me of not using my gut to find mafia? Where on earth are you going with this?!?!! What is the point? I have no idea what you're trying to say, it seems like you are making up reasons to attack me and whenever I address them, you're deflecting and coming from a different angle? But we aren't lynching Vivax? I don‘t follow scripts or play the game like you think I should so if you just block off my attempts to work together with you by saying silly things like I‘m scum because I don‘t talk to you immediately you leave me with no choice but to question you in many different manners Look, I don't have any "characterizations" or "expectations" for your play. I have been trying all day phase to work with you.
For the thread, here's some of the (extremely limited) discussion in our whisperer Discord channel. Paraphrased ofc because it has to be.
Trfel: Vivax, why is AlphaZero mafia?
Vivax: no reason he is town, lets other people affect his reads, holier-than-thou tone, changed his sandroba read exactly when rsoultin scumread him and not before
Trfel: can't find the sandroba read change in question. Not sure why changing his reads based on what other people say is scummy.
Vivax: search my filter for these words, you'll found it
Trfel: I found it, but this read change was after rsoultin said AlphaZero was probably town
Vivax: doesn't matter, AlphaZero had sandroba as his top town read, then rsoultin called AlphaZero mafia, then AlphaZero backed off on his townread on sandroba. Basically the fact that rsoultin scumread AlphaZero made AlphaZero change his read on sandroba.
Trfel: I don't think that's what happened
no further responses from Vivax on this subject
First, Vivax's account of the timing of these things happening was straight up wrong. Second, why would rsoultin slightly suspecting AlphaZero, and then eventually saying that AlphaZero is probably town, make AlphaZero change his read on sandroba even after rsoultin said AlphaZero is probably town?
And then, Vivax lied and said I didn't respond about his reasoning, when I literally did, I looked up all the quotes he mentioned and it didn't make any sense to me, so I told him this?
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On June 15 2024 09:15 die_meatbaby wrote:
@Trfel whats your opinion about everyone here is changing vote? Which vote swapping doesn’t make sense do you. Looks someone more scummy here?
This drives me fucking crazy here. I think it's hard to tell. I will evaluate it later when I have more time. I think if I tried to make a judgement now it'd be very half-baked and more likely wrong than right.
That said:
If you are town, like you say you are, people are moving off of you and looking for other lynches. Why would mafia be incentivized to do this? It's more likely that town started changing things and now everyone's going crazy (both town and mafia), but it's the fact that town started making a fuss that started it all.
Figuring out which individual things are town vs mafia is difficult when it's a rush like this.
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On June 15 2024 09:18 Vivax wrote:
I told Trfel to look at my filter size to figure me out and he shrugged it off.
Funny that it always worked Yes, your filter size does indicate that you could be town. But at some point, I think we need to weigh the other reasons vs that one reason.
I am really, really reluctant to townread someone for one single reason unless I am absolutely sure.
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I hope I'm not wrong on this But I absolutely could be. I hope it's not the throw of the century.
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In all honesty, I think if you have a 29 page filter, there should be something in there that says you are town besides the fact that your filter is 29 pages.
With respect to the filter length argument, I also believe that taking game length into consideration is important, which is why I prefer to use percentage of game posts that belong to someone as a metric. Quick math suggests that Vivax had 9.3% of the posts in Endures II and 12.5% of the posts here. So, a little different, but is it too different? Also, for a more accurate analysis I'd have to remove off-topic posts, but I don't have time for that now.
I'm sorry if this is wrong, it's just the best idea that I have right now.
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On June 15 2024 10:01 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 09:54 AlphaZero wrote:
Does anyone know why town Scott refuses to reevaluate his reads? What's there to re-evaluate on you? Dude, are you serious?
AlphaZero's playstyle itself has completely changed from day 1 to day 2-3. His reads have been changing as well. His pushes have been changing.
Maybe to you, there's nothing to re-evaluate, because your only reason he is mafia is that he thinks you are mafia.
Convincing.
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On June 15 2024 10:07 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 10:03 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 10:01 scott31337 wrote:On June 15 2024 09:54 AlphaZero wrote:
Does anyone know why town Scott refuses to reevaluate his reads? What's there to re-evaluate on you? Dude, are you serious? AlphaZero's playstyle itself has completely changed from day 1 to day 2-3. His reads have been changing as well. His pushes have been changing. Maybe to you, there's nothing to re-evaluate, because your only reason he is mafia is that he thinks you are mafia. Convincing. And he keeps voting for townies (In my opinion). So there's that too. That hasn't change today. To be fair you asked why you should re evaluate. I gave you reasons. Another reason why you shouldn't doesn't invalidate the reasons I gave.
But whatever, you clearly made up your mind long ago.
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On June 15 2024 10:17 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 10:16 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 15 2024 10:07 Vivax wrote:
Ok then.
Good night.
I have high hopes you will correctly lynch mocsta and dmb without me or change your mind again.
I just get too attached or second guess myself to wagon them with you on two opportunities. I‘m weak. My mind needs a rest, and worst case I get to discord with cool folk guys is this really mafia? Is this fake? Does it remind you of the last time he was mislynched? You were mafia remember? It does not remind me of that, that time he was trying to dump reads and he was really salty about it. So I don't believe in scumslips but did you just slip that this is a mislynch?
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at a red light driving, can't play but will think
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Dang, my bad Sorry all.
Thought it was worth a try. If die_meatbaby is mafia then it's the biggest throw of all time
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Will be around until I go to sleep. No idea when that will be though. Let me know if anyone wants to talk. On the bright side, maybe the tension in the shenanigans gives us more info than a quiet lynch? But lynching scum is always best so idk ><
Part of me wants to trust Vivax's read that die_meatbaby is mafia, but at the same time, it didn't feel like a mafia lynch. So much silence going into the deadline didn't feel right at all to me. But if I ignore the thread activity analysis, I could still absolutely see die_meatbaby being mafia here. I'm not sure if it makes perfect sense for die_meatbaby to be mafia with sandroba but I also can't rule it out.
Going to keep trying to figure out if die_meatbaby is mafia here.
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Sure, I think he's mafia. You?
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Like, either scott31337 is mafia, or everything I think and have ever thought this game is wrong.
Unfortunately, the latter is an extremely likely possibility >< It's just challenging practically, I don't have another way with which to approach things.
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Also it's kinda funny, if you lynch someone you have a whisperer chat with, you can keep using it, but they can't say anything back. This would be useful if I were mafia, I could taunt Vivax and rub it in his face and he couldn't do anything about it
But as it is, all I can do is apologize for being bad. Ah well.
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On June 15 2024 15:25 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 15:22 Trfel wrote:Also it's kinda funny, if you lynch someone you have a whisperer chat with, you can keep using it, but they can't say anything back. This would be useful if I were mafia, I could taunt Vivax and rub it in his face and he couldn't do anything about it But as it is, all I can do is apologize for being bad. Ah well. he didn't help himself with all the politics Maybe I'm bad town for saying this If he did his list post of 6 points before he was going back and forth with you. It would be ok The problem is. The way he went about trying to save dmb always had too much drama in to be sure if town motivated.. could just be IRL which feels mafia as it's not town either Yeah, I had been more inclined to switch to scott31337 then Vivax. But Vivax posted and scott31337 didn't, unfortunately Vivax's posts made me want to lynch him more.
I want to at least respect Vivax's reads, particularly die_meatbaby being mafia. But die_meatbaby being mafia doesn't make perfect sense to me? Like it's far from unreasonable, but it doesn't make me feel like the game is coming together, you know?
Like one of those puzzle pieces that kinda fits but you're kinda forcing it and you're just not sure it's the right one.
I've been in die_meatbaby's filter for over an hour now and I haven't made any progress towards figuring it out.
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Not only are you sure die_meatbaby was mafia but you also know she's the roleblocker? That's next level.
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On June 15 2024 15:33 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 15:31 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 15:25 Mocsta wrote:On June 15 2024 15:22 Trfel wrote:Also it's kinda funny, if you lynch someone you have a whisperer chat with, you can keep using it, but they can't say anything back. This would be useful if I were mafia, I could taunt Vivax and rub it in his face and he couldn't do anything about it But as it is, all I can do is apologize for being bad. Ah well. he didn't help himself with all the politics Maybe I'm bad town for saying this If he did his list post of 6 points before he was going back and forth with you. It would be ok The problem is. The way he went about trying to save dmb always had too much drama in to be sure if town motivated.. could just be IRL which feels mafia as it's not town either Yeah, I had been more inclined to switch to scott31337 then Vivax. But Vivax posted and scott31337 didn't, unfortunately Vivax's posts made me want to lynch him more. I want to at least respect Vivax's reads, particularly die_meatbaby being mafia. But die_meatbaby being mafia doesn't make perfect sense to me? Like it's far from unreasonable, but it doesn't make me feel like the game is coming together, you know? Like one of those puzzle pieces that kinda fits but you're kinda forcing it and you're just not sure it's the right one. I've been in die_meatbaby's filter for over an hour now and I haven't made any progress towards figuring it out. so if you dive one player and can't read Is that more likely town or Mafia? I would say as a heuristic If actively engaged, it's more.often town Does dmb read as actively engaged? Honestly, this is a weird situation for me. Usually when I spend a lot of time in someone's filter, I get a decent idea. Maybe it's wrong but I at least have a theory, you know? On June 15 2024 15:36 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 15:34 Trfel wrote:
Not only are you sure die_meatbaby was mafia but you also know she's the roleblocker? That's next level. Well feeds into her being unlynchable so far Maybe I differ from others but I don't value mafia roles very highly. IMO you play to keep the player in a better position alive every single time, regardless of who has which role. If they happen to have a good role, that's just a bonus.
Side note, I can't help but noticing that this setup includes potential for a mafia vigilante. I've never seen it actually happen but theoretically, mafia could be saving a vigilante shot, and then if we mislynch tomorrow, use it to close out the game without actually going to LYLO. That'd be brutal.
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Mafia vigilante you mean? Or town vigilante?
I really really wouldn't expect Oatsmaster to have been shot by a town vigilante. There's extremely little reason to shoot Oatsmaster there, and typically, the town vigilante claims after shooting. It just feels incredibly unlikely, not worth considering, and even if somehow this is what happened, the vigilante will eventually let us know.
If it's a mafia vigilante, how would we know? What happened to the night kill? Also, why would the mafia vigilante shoot Night 2, of all nights?
Like if we end up having a way to have blocked a night kill, maybe it's worth considering. But idk.
I've never actually seen a mafia vigilante hold their shot, I guess the thinking is that it's too risky because if something happens and you get lynched it'd be bad? I just think it'd be absolutely devastating to town to save the shot and use it to avoid LYLO if you are in the position to do so. Also a mafia vigilante in a 13 player game would be a weird choice. So I'm probably just being paranoid. But it's right there in the setup... Makes me want to just get two mafia lynches and avoid LYLO tbh.
If there was no mafia vigilante possible, I'd be happy to mislynch of course
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On June 15 2024 15:55 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 04:47 Koshi wrote:On June 07 2024 12:50 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 12:45 Trfel wrote:On June 07 2024 12:44 scott31337 wrote:On June 07 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:
The real question here is if we are lynching scott31337 today or waiting until tomorrow? Go find the real mafia. Unless you already know who they are It would be easier if you would stop pretending to be mafia Why tell me to go find mafia when you can (presumably) do it yourself? Scumslip See you already know I'm "pretending" to be mafia. I already know I'm town. Do you see me driving discussion? I've been looking since 10pm. 1) In the nested quote you see him playfully attacking Tfrel. Which is difficult to do as mafia. It has a good balance between get off me, + applying pressure to Tfrel to gauge a reaction. 2) Seeing the scumslip here is more likely to come from town reading and interpreting things to a maximum. As mafia things like this are way harder to do on the fly, if one is really good at playing mafia maybe it is possible, but the last part "I know I am town" is an unnecessarily lie at the end to make as mafia. I can't even explain properly why he added it at the end, but I think he tries to be witty with the truth but butchers the joke a bit. 3) He overestimates his own contributions to the thread but again, I can see a townie scott believing he is driving the town into victory more than a mafia scott bluffing. (I will quote some more but this analysis should be teached at schools.) this Scott town case on one post still holds though What?
I don't really agree. Why would scott31337 as town, think that he caught me in a scumslip and then not vote for me until later but do so purely for that reason?
Also, I think the supposed scumslip is garbage and I wonder if it's possible for anyone as town to think that was a scumslip, but it's very difficult to be conclusive with that argument.
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On June 15 2024 15:56 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 15:51 Trfel wrote:Mafia vigilante you mean? Or town vigilante? I really really wouldn't expect Oatsmaster to have been shot by a town vigilante. There's extremely little reason to shoot Oatsmaster there, and typically, the town vigilante claims after shooting. It just feels incredibly unlikely, not worth considering, and even if somehow this is what happened, the vigilante will eventually let us know. If it's a mafia vigilante, how would we know? What happened to the night kill? Also, why would the mafia vigilante shoot Night 2, of all nights? Like if we end up having a way to have blocked a night kill, maybe it's worth considering. But idk. I've never actually seen a mafia vigilante hold their shot, I guess the thinking is that it's too risky because if something happens and you get lynched it'd be bad? I just think it'd be absolutely devastating to town to save the shot and use it to avoid LYLO if you are in the position to do so. Also a mafia vigilante in a 13 player game would be a weird choice. So I'm probably just being paranoid. But it's right there in the setup... Makes me want to just get two mafia lynches and avoid LYLO tbh. If there was no mafia vigilante possible, I'd be happy to mislynch of course mafia vig..that was what were talking about I guess.
Honestly I don't think mafia vigilante should be possible in mini games, but oh well.
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Also I'd like to state for postgame credits (or rather, fewer postgame anticredits), that if AlphaZero had asked to lynch scott31337 instead of Vivax, I think that would have happened. I at least would have gone with him on it.
So when we lose to scott31337 it's not entirely our fault, he gets at least a little of the blame too.
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On June 15 2024 16:00 Mocsta wrote:
Is there anything to make.of slam.throwaaay vote? Honestly I think it makes him look more town. Not necessarily due to the fact that he threw away his vote itself, but the reasoning.
He voted for me for fishing for thread sentiment, apparently. Seems weird, but I think it's a risky stance to take as mafia. Why would you vote for someone who isn't going to be lynched if you are mafia, and stand out from the rest? Just feels like you're drawing extra attention to yourself and extra risk for no reason. What if I turned on him, for example?
Plus it means that if he is mafia, he didn't care about his vote. So if he's mafia, it's probably not with any of the Day 3 lynch candidates.
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I'm actually pretty surprised to see that die_meatbaby voted for scott31337, even if only for 12 minutes. I'm not sure if that means anything, but it goes directly against everything die_meatbaby had previously said about scott31337.
Post-lynch, die_meatbaby says she's sorry for not believing in Vivax, and that she will find whoever is responsible for the Vivax lynch. But then she says that she'll take a closer look at scott31337 in response to AlphaZero's post. Seems.... off? If she's truly upset about the Vivax mislynch and wants to hold people accountable, wouldn't AlphaZero be one of the first places she'd look?
Note that I'm not blaming AlphaZero, everyone's wrong sometimes, and it's at least as much my fault as it is his. But if die_meatbaby is looking for somewhere to put the blame, I wouldn't expect her to follow AlphaZero's read to suspect scott31337, who made it clear he didn't want to vote for Vivax.
I think die_meatbaby's alignment is key here. Before I screwed everything up, did we have a wagon on mafia/were mafia bussing?
+ Show Spoiler [inconclusive analysis] +Before I posted about shenanigans, the vote count was as follows: die_meatbaby (7): Koshi, Trfel, Mocsta, scott31337, raynpelikoneet, AlphaZero, VivaxAlphaZero (1): die_meatbaby Mocsta (1): Alakaslam If we assume for the moment that die_meatbaby is mafia, and therefore being bussed, someone in the middle of the votes on die_meatbaby would be the most likely candidate for a mafia partner. This person would also have to be someone who moved off of die_meatbaby easily, but perhaps not someone who was very forceful in moving off of die_meatbaby, if that makes sense? Like someone who is very willing, eager even, to move off of die_meatbaby, but didn't want to make a big deal about it to make it look bad if one of them flips. Is there anyone like that? Scott31337 stayed on die_meatbaby, if they are mafia together then that means I managed to find almost the only way to screw that up, helping a bussed mafia survive a mislynch and even letting mafia stay on mafia for cred. This is a really depressing thought so I hope it's not true. Alakaslam was on Mocsta, and never voted for die_meatbaby. Seems a bit risky for Alakaslam to not bus given the 7-1 vote count, but idk. Unlikely. Raynpelikoneet does fit this description. Mocsta was a bit vocal about not lynching die_meatbaby but I could see this being possible. AlphaZero maybe fits this description as well. Basically it's possible for die_meatbaby to be mafia here based on potential associations, which doesn't say much at all, but I figured it'd be worth a try. Grasping at straws. Voting patterns are a bit weird for day 3, it was a complicated day. We had a lot of votes on Mocsta, then a lot of votes on AlphaZero, then a lot of votes on die_meatbaby, then eventually Vivax. Come to think of it, there's another angle. If die_meatbaby is mafia, she has a mafia buddy, and she and her mafia buddy had to have been bussing mid to late day 2. Would die_meatbaby/raynpelikoneet or die_meatbaby/AlphaZero really bus there? Or even die_meatbaby/Mocsta? I feel like these people have enough influence that they'd be less inclined to bus, in all honesty. I think die_meatbaby/scott31337 going for a bus makes sense. Once again assuming die_meatbaby is mafia: Would AlphaZero have bussed? First thought is that he'd be the most likely of the three to have done so, since he hasn't had the activity to really get his own way. He voted for die_meatbaby late, and wasn't really talking about lynching die_meatbaby, he was discussing other options. I could see this being a bus, in theory. Raynpelikoneet voted out of trust in Koshi. Theoretically I could see this being a bus I suppose. So much for that idea, the candidates match. End result is that die_meatbaby could theoretically be mafia with scott31337, raynpelikoneet, AlphaZero, and maybe Mocsta. Which is enough people that it's not very indicative either way
Tried a bunch of shortcuts to see if I could get an easier read on die_meatbaby and they all failed. Guess I have to do it the hard way
I just don't really have any good ways to read die_meatbaby. But I also can't end up unsure, I think we really really need to figure this out. Is it possible to look somewhere else and come back to die_meatbaby later? Maybe it'll become more clear? From my perspective, it's either die_meatbaby and scott31337 or we have a very very serious problem. But if I had to guess I'd guess that we have a very serious problem.
When I look at die_meatbaby's filter, I see a lot of things I think are wrong. For example, there's the warning to Oatsmaster, there's complaining about other people being inactive, scumreading Mocsta seemingly before seeing that he wasn't the night kill, townreading scott31337 because he looks suspicious as town, etc. But does that mean anything? No one else has been very convinced by these arguments.
Well, I've got another little thing.On June 13 2024 11:09 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 11:02 Vivax wrote:On June 13 2024 10:58 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 10:56 Vivax wrote:On June 13 2024 10:49 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 10:42 Vivax wrote:On June 13 2024 10:40 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 10:31 Vivax wrote:On June 13 2024 10:28 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 10:23 Vivax wrote:
[quote]
Many reasons that require reading.
If you don‘t want to read you can always be loud and opinionated but don‘t spam questions with answers itt so you don't want to talk to me and you don't want to explain to me why exactly you think i'm mafia. Very good. Your filter is full of disturbing posts about Austria and the people who live here, but I can't find what I actually want to know. at least tell me the reasons. I find the people here disturbing so my posts are disturbed. Like what do I need to talk with you about ? Do you need me to convince you that you are mafia ? why not talk about it? are you scared that I can tell you why you are wrong or do you have actually not good reasons do read me as mafia? Talk about what ? I am talking about it. How am I supposed to explain to you that I am town if I don't even know why you think the opposite of me? In case you might be town, I would like to explain to you that I am town in order to win together. But if you don't want to, don't make a case of me and just vote me after the night phase without any real reason or explanation. It's totally normal what you do here... You‘re town when you look for scum not when you ask for ways to be townread. There‘s no hint that I wouldn‘t vote Az over you tomorrow so you could just decide for yourself if you want to do that rather than making me repeat why I think you‘re scum so you can convince me otherwise. I‘m not that important over what you can do yourself for that to matter. Mafia fights as a team against individual townies. It is important to find townies and build a team to find and lynch them together But you don‘t need me to necessarily townread you if you can post a convincing case for why someone is more likely mafia than you. I am still try to figure out which one makes more sense az or mocstar both are scummy as hell for me. On June 13 2024 11:35 die_meatbaby wrote:
I think I was maybe wrong with my scott read... Note that until this point, die_meatbaby's read on scott31337 was town.
So if die_meatbaby is considering scott31337 as mafia, can she seriously consider AlphaZero being mafia? Of anyone in the game, I think those two would be the absolutely least likely to be mafia together. If she was more sure in scott31337 being mafia this would be more incriminating, as it is I don't think it's a big deal, but it is interesting that die_meatbaby didn't seem to follow up the questioning over scott31337's alignment. Even if she didn't consider it super urgent, if she's town, she ought to, no? Since it affects her decision between Mocsta and AlphaZero, which is what she was focusing on?On June 15 2024 08:36 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:30 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:18 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 15 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:
Maybe I'm just stupid. I'd hate to get cold feet and miss out on lynching mafia for no reason, and it's possible die_meatbaby is mafia and took my hesitation as a chance to jump in and defend herself.
But also maybe not.
Someone else say something? I'm really sorry that I wasn't as active here as usual. I still tried to do my best with an absolutely shitty time management. Also you were kinda tunneld on me but that happend to me often enough too. Hm, I think you've had plenty of opportunities. I've reached out to you a ton. I wouldn't call that tunneled. More that there hasn't been much reason to think differently. I'd lynch scott31337, I'd very likely lynch Vivax, I'd mayyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeee lynch raynpelikoneet but probably not today. I will filter scott fast again. I am still to unsure of vivax and actually would prefer to lynch me for less activity then him, because if he is really town he could help you all later better then I could. Rayn is always gets nk when he is town or at least in the last few games I have played with him. If he is not getting nk soon. He is maybe scum, but for now also not my prefered lynch Also, what happened here? Die_meatbaby said she'd rather have herself be lynched than Vivax, but clearly she changed her mind? Looks like this happened due to AlphaZero's point about Vivax dumping his scumreads before getting mislynched last time and seemingly not doing so here.
I also have no clue why die_meatbaby unvoted from scott31337. Context shows that I said I preferred lynching Vivax to scott31337, then die_meatbaby votes for scott31337, then AlphaZero says he thinks Vivax is more likely mafia than scott31337, then AlphaZero votes for Vivax, raynpelikoneet follows and votes for Vivax, and then die_meatbaby unvotes. Huh? Just doesn't feel like a sensible reaction. My best guess is that die_meatbaby unvoted due to not thinking that scott31337 would be a viable wagon. In this case, however, she'd be choosing to vote between Vivax and AlphaZero, and while I can't say she didn't do this, she didn't mention considering the AlphaZero wagon at all. Feels like she unvoted scott31337 and then.... waited to go onto Vivax for some reason? It's hard for me to know if this makes sense from town or not.
For die_meatbaby to be town and do this, she'd have to be investigating scott31337's filter and not be sold on the Vivax lynch, then see support for the scott31337 wagon (that she was convinced enough on to vote for it) go away and then unvote without a new place to put the vote? If die_meatbaby is town and actually cared about scott31337 being lynched, I would have expected her to protest the wagon losing support, or at least leave her vote on it until she found something better, no? Why would she remove her vote when she doesn't seem very excited about any other option and there was no reason to go back on the read in the first place?
If that makes sense. It's another little thing that isn't super incriminating, but it's the best I've got.
Conclusion
More little things. Not sure if any of it makes die_meatbaby mafia, but here it is anyway.
1. Die_meatbaby post Vivax flip said she'd look into scott31337 again but also wanted to hold the people for lynching Vivax responsible (presumably including AlphaZero, who was the one she was responding to about looking into scott31337). This doesn't really make sense from the perspective of someone who knows that AlphaZero contributed significantly to lynching Vivax and also knows that scott31337 didn't do so. As in, if die_meatbaby is aware of these things, which she really ought to be, then I have a hard time seeing how both of these post-flip comments can be made from the same mindset.
2. Die_meatbaby didn't seem to try to figure out scott31337's alignment day 3, despite it being key to other reads she seemed much more interested in.
3. Unvote timing on scott31337 doesn't make much sense
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I'm getting tired, but can I ask about Vivax's reasons to suspect die_meatbaby?
Is it accurate that Vivax's actions greatly contributed to getting die_meatbaby through the lynch? To be honest I hadn't thought of this as the case, but if this is true I think it's a strong point. Looking at page 228+, Vivax was the third one to consider a wagon change (after me and Mocsta) and the first one to unvote die_meatbaby. I guess then it becomes subjective, how much did Vivax actually contribute, I'm curious what people's impressions of this are? I think this is a reasonable point tbh. But it's subjective and it'd be great to hear others' thoughts.
I'm not sure what Vivax's point 5 about Mocsta "ignoring the relationship component" (post #4736) is about? Does anyone know? Maybe tomorrow I can look it up when I have more energy.
Looks like Vivax started to get a little more suspicious of AlphaZero after this happened but I'm not sure if there is much to make of that.
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On June 15 2024 16:31 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 16:05 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 16:00 Mocsta wrote:
Is there anything to make.of slam.throwaaay vote? Honestly I think it makes him look more town. Not necessarily due to the fact that he threw away his vote itself, but the reasoning. He voted for me for fishing for thread sentiment, apparently. Seems weird, but I think it's a risky stance to take as mafia. Why would you vote for someone who isn't going to be lynched if you are mafia, and stand out from the rest? Just feels like you're drawing extra attention to yourself and extra risk for no reason. What if I turned on him, for example? Plus it means that if he is mafia, he didn't care about his vote. So if he's mafia, it's probably not with any of the Day 3 lynch candidates. lets explore this further because i went through the timing of the vote, and then all the related posts around that time (circa p229) and if it is direclty related to you, you had that post with the page count before deadline; and another one to vivax. it makes no sense to me as you point out. too weird/unpredictable to be scum is fair from this dimension. But what if his vote didnt matter at the point in time (because this was *before* the chaos erupted) Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 08:54 Grackaroni wrote:
Day Three Vote Count
die_meatbaby (5): Koshi, Vivax, Trfel, Mocsta, Scott31337, raynpelikoneet, AlphaZero, Vivax
AlphaZero (3); Scott31337, Mocsta, Mocsta, Vivax, die_meatbaby, Vivax, Mocsta
Scott31337 (1): Trfel, AlphaZero, Alakaslam, Alakaslam
Mocsta (0): die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, AlphaZero, Alakaslam, Vivax
he already has a dead vote on scott wagons are dmb and az.. how does slam read these 2? slam seems to be quite aligned with az as early as June 10 and has maintained a pretty consistent tone and re-quoting in agreement through; so completley plausible that slam wont vote Alphazero. What about DMB? June 13 Null Show nested quote +On June 13 2024 16:44 Alakaslam wrote:On June 13 2024 13:43 Trfel wrote:
Maybe I just pocketed myself but I am not convinced Mocsta is mafia here. I'm just a huge sucker for the way he posts, even when I don't agree I just have a hard time seeing it coming from mafia. This is probably a huge blind spot for me this game, because it's not very rational. Note to myself to figure this out somehow.
Gut reads from Trfel! (note that order in each category is irrelevant)
Town
Koshi
Vivax
AlphaZero
Town Lean
Mocsta
Null
scott31337
Alakaslam
raynpelikoneet
Mafia Lean
die_meatbaby
I have no clue how I'm ever supposed to read Alakaslam this game. Need to figure out raynpelikoneet, scott31337, and die_meatbaby, next. How is DMB not null? I can't make head or tails of her, and, well, that may not be saying much actually. however, here he states he wont vote dmb Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 01:01 Alakaslam wrote:On June 14 2024 21:02 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 14 2024 20:57 Koshi wrote:On June 14 2024 20:55 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 14 2024 20:53 Koshi wrote:On June 14 2024 20:44 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 14 2024 20:40 Koshi wrote:On June 14 2024 20:35 die_meatbaby wrote:
Where are you guys talk to me!!!! I was traveling home. Got half a day off because I got to go to a special dentist. That being said. I skimmed your posts. Nothing pinged me. You are still mafia. I will skim again later. Eating now. Why am I mafia. Why do you believe this scumteam everytime for a dmb misslynch if you are town I dont need good reasons. You are the least townie out of all players here except maybe Slam. Also pls dont give me these "always" "everytime" scenarios from the past because I dont remember if what you say is true. And tbh I dont believe it so.. then tell me why I am not townie. I made the first case on sandroba before other people made a real case on him. You really think that my mafia game would be this good that I would start with a sandro/mocstar case??? I dont remember you being a good factor for the sandroba lynch. The opposite was true. On June 10 2024 21:06 die_meatbaby wrote:rsoultin/koshiEither rsoultin or koshi have not given me reasons to see them as mafia. Koshi is really activ, trying to solve the game here. He has a lot of townreads but he plays still like a Townkoshi would. ScottOn June 07 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:I think scott31337 is probably the most suspicious person to ever play this game. He's just always mafia somehow, even when his role PM says he is town I think you are right also in older games from he looked scummy in his town games. TrflOn June 07 2024 20:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
Trfel spending time and energy to fence sit seems townie to me, I don’t really like how rayn has approached today tbh the buddying trfel smells not good I thought the same thing kinda suspicious, but I think it was nothing. Trfls Filter wouldn´t make so much sense when he would be mafia. I could not see with who he would be togther in a team. For right now I see him as a Townie Sandrobahttps://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?user=sandrobathis is 2 page filter. he comes in the game starts with giving town reads on trfl, rayn, az, kelshier. far too early in the game to make so many reads.Then hitting a bit on scott and just going offline for ever. For me this filter is a red flag but maybe things change when he would start to play here again. IF I am corect with sandro mafia then guys look at this shit and you can call me paranoid but thats something now: Mocsta sandro making a few townreads on the people who were activ in the begining but not on mocsta he didn´t get a read On June 07 2024 23:21 sandroba wrote:
I actually like k3lsier too, 0 fucks given on mocsta interaction, seems very townie to me looks like it's such a safe read that it shouldn't be labeled as town right away so as not to stand out directly as teammates then the next posts felt to me like playing togther On June 08 2024 00:11 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 00:06 sandroba wrote:
Basically if the initial question wasn't fake, definitely what rayn answered is not enough to address the question.
If it is fake you are either doing it to create discussion and you don't really care about it, or you are trying to blend in not create discussion.
If you intension is the former which could be a townie agenda, you wouldn't try to cut it short when you got the discussion going, which was what scott did. It makes more sense it was the latter which points to mafia agenda. yeah I get this now and accept it's the most likely options I was too focused on a third option which is too low odds (i.e. genuine role query) the sandro we never saw sandro again... what happend was Mocasta playing normal and calling out that he is jailkeeper and he will save oats n1 I would just love to understand why he didn't die on the first night. If someone blue called you kill them that night as mafia. Why are you still alive? What did Marv do to get himself killed and not the PR? Are you really blue???? Are you really fucking Town? Or are you playing with sandro? and why jail oats anyway? if you are town why are you saving oats. Why is he so Town to you. Why not Koshi, marv people who are strong town and often die early. Why oats? Or have I already found the team here? this hole thing fucks my head. Either you fuck with me or the mafia, because it doesn´t make sense to me! also in the same time i think VivaxI think I already explained enough why I think he mafia. But this read could change again. He is hell of paranoid but in RL right now not in the game, maybe this leads to a false read but when he is playing like this he is def. mafia in my eyes. Then I have the question again why is oats in this involved if my currents reads would be correct or is oats red and vivax green? I don´t thinks so oats looking more townisch then vivax. I am still unsure how read oats. AZ I don´t have a good feeling with him. Feels like he wann kinda lead Town somewhere, but not in a way that is too conspicuous. Still try to figure out if this is DP or Palmar. But I think it´s someone who I have played with already. No read on him right now Rayn In every fucking game we have played I have read him wrong. He was town i thought mafia and the other way around. I am still to fucking unsure what to think of him right now. In my head kinda scummy so lets say more townisch because I am always wrong with my read on him. Slam to less activ to make a read. It´s anyways always hard to read slam but when he only appears minutes before or after somebody died then I can really not read him AND YOU ALL CAN CALL ME FUCKING PARANOID FOR THIS SANDRO/ MOCSTAR SHIT BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME SHIT GOING ON BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM that was so early on d2 at that time people where still on vivax wagon. Me too btw because I saw nobody was interested in that so i stay with wagons town decided to have. becuase when i make a only vote on somebody I am scum as well. What I have learned because of you I am not gonna vote dmb.
this was good. slams actions / behaviours are congurent and i think reasonable. his vote wasnt necessary to finalise a wagon so why vote players he didnt believe were scummy. when he did think they were scummy (like me) he dropped on pretty quick, so the counter-case is true as well. i agree, town qualities shining through and through I feel like you were testing me here At least I seem to have passed?
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On June 15 2024 16:33 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 16:30 Trfel wrote:
I'm getting tired, but can I ask about Vivax's reasons to suspect die_meatbaby?
Is it accurate that Vivax's actions greatly contributed to getting die_meatbaby through the lynch? To be honest I hadn't thought of this as the case, but if this is true I think it's a strong point. Looking at page 228+, Vivax was the third one to consider a wagon change (after me and Mocsta) and the first one to unvote die_meatbaby. I guess then it becomes subjective, how much did Vivax actually contribute, I'm curious what people's impressions of this are? I think this is a reasonable point tbh. But it's subjective and it'd be great to hear others' thoughts.
I'm not sure what Vivax's point 5 about Mocsta "ignoring the relationship component" (post #4736) is about? Does anyone know? Maybe tomorrow I can look it up when I have more energy.
Looks like Vivax started to get a little more suspicious of AlphaZero after this happened but I'm not sure if there is much to make of that. trfel vivax wanted to save dmb he didnt know it would mean counterwagoning himself he sacrified himself for love .. point 5 is about him commenting on the torment he is having in this game with dmb it emotionally connected to me as authentic.. i think i surmised it as a jedi meditatining in prep for the final battle. i later drop this read because the actions werent following through, and in fact, had a change of heart per the end of day 3 antics. Hm? Vivax said he wanted to save die_meatbaby but then after the wagon on him came, he said die_meatbaby was mafia and the turn of events helped him see that. Or is this not what you are referring to?
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On June 15 2024 16:41 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2024 16:19 Trfel wrote:I'm actually pretty surprised to see that die_meatbaby voted for scott31337, even if only for 12 minutes. I'm not sure if that means anything, but it goes directly against everything die_meatbaby had previously said about scott31337. Post-lynch, die_meatbaby says she's sorry for not believing in Vivax, and that she will find whoever is responsible for the Vivax lynch. But then she says that she'll take a closer look at scott31337 in response to AlphaZero's post. Seems.... off? If she's truly upset about the Vivax mislynch and wants to hold people accountable, wouldn't AlphaZero be one of the first places she'd look? Note that I'm not blaming AlphaZero, everyone's wrong sometimes, and it's at least as much my fault as it is his. But if die_meatbaby is looking for somewhere to put the blame, I wouldn't expect her to follow AlphaZero's read to suspect scott31337, who made it clear he didn't want to vote for Vivax. I think die_meatbaby's alignment is key here. Before I screwed everything up, did we have a wagon on mafia/were mafia bussing? + Show Spoiler [inconclusive analysis] +Before I posted about shenanigans, the vote count was as follows: die_meatbaby (7): Koshi, Trfel, Mocsta, scott31337, raynpelikoneet, AlphaZero, VivaxAlphaZero (1): die_meatbaby Mocsta (1): Alakaslam If we assume for the moment that die_meatbaby is mafia, and therefore being bussed, someone in the middle of the votes on die_meatbaby would be the most likely candidate for a mafia partner. This person would also have to be someone who moved off of die_meatbaby easily, but perhaps not someone who was very forceful in moving off of die_meatbaby, if that makes sense? Like someone who is very willing, eager even, to move off of die_meatbaby, but didn't want to make a big deal about it to make it look bad if one of them flips. Is there anyone like that? Scott31337 stayed on die_meatbaby, if they are mafia together then that means I managed to find almost the only way to screw that up, helping a bussed mafia survive a mislynch and even letting mafia stay on mafia for cred. This is a really depressing thought so I hope it's not true. Alakaslam was on Mocsta, and never voted for die_meatbaby. Seems a bit risky for Alakaslam to not bus given the 7-1 vote count, but idk. Unlikely. Raynpelikoneet does fit this description. Mocsta was a bit vocal about not lynching die_meatbaby but I could see this being possible. AlphaZero maybe fits this description as well. Basically it's possible for die_meatbaby to be mafia here based on potential associations, which doesn't say much at all, but I figured it'd be worth a try. Grasping at straws. Voting patterns are a bit weird for day 3, it was a complicated day. We had a lot of votes on Mocsta, then a lot of votes on AlphaZero, then a lot of votes on die_meatbaby, then eventually Vivax. Come to think of it, there's another angle. If die_meatbaby is mafia, she has a mafia buddy, and she and her mafia buddy had to have been bussing mid to late day 2. Would die_meatbaby/raynpelikoneet or die_meatbaby/AlphaZero really bus there? Or even die_meatbaby/Mocsta? I feel like these people have enough influence that they'd be less inclined to bus, in all honesty. I think die_meatbaby/scott31337 going for a bus makes sense. Once again assuming die_meatbaby is mafia: Would AlphaZero have bussed? First thought is that he'd be the most likely of the three to have done so, since he hasn't had the activity to really get his own way. He voted for die_meatbaby late, and wasn't really talking about lynching die_meatbaby, he was discussing other options. I could see this being a bus, in theory. Raynpelikoneet voted out of trust in Koshi. Theoretically I could see this being a bus I suppose. So much for that idea, the candidates match. End result is that die_meatbaby could theoretically be mafia with scott31337, raynpelikoneet, AlphaZero, and maybe Mocsta. Which is enough people that it's not very indicative either way
Tried a bunch of shortcuts to see if I could get an easier read on die_meatbaby and they all failed. Guess I have to do it the hard way I just don't really have any good ways to read die_meatbaby. But I also can't end up unsure, I think we really really need to figure this out. Is it possible to look somewhere else and come back to die_meatbaby later? Maybe it'll become more clear? From my perspective, it's either die_meatbaby and scott31337 or we have a very very serious problem. But if I had to guess I'd guess that we have a very serious problem. When I look at die_meatbaby's filter, I see a lot of things I think are wrong. For example, there's the warning to Oatsmaster, there's complaining about other people being inactive, scumreading Mocsta seemingly before seeing that he wasn't the night kill, townreading scott31337 because he looks suspicious as town, etc. But does that mean anything? No one else has been very convinced by these arguments. Well, I've got another little thing. On June 13 2024 11:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 11:02 Vivax wrote:On June 13 2024 10:58 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 10:56 Vivax wrote:On June 13 2024 10:49 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 10:42 Vivax wrote:On June 13 2024 10:40 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 13 2024 10:31 Vivax wrote:
[quote]
I find the people here disturbing so my posts are disturbed.
Like what do I need to talk with you about ? Do you need me to convince you that you are mafia ? why not talk about it? are you scared that I can tell you why you are wrong or do you have actually not good reasons do read me as mafia? Talk about what ? I am talking about it. How am I supposed to explain to you that I am town if I don't even know why you think the opposite of me? In case you might be town, I would like to explain to you that I am town in order to win together. But if you don't want to, don't make a case of me and just vote me after the night phase without any real reason or explanation. It's totally normal what you do here... You‘re town when you look for scum not when you ask for ways to be townread. There‘s no hint that I wouldn‘t vote Az over you tomorrow so you could just decide for yourself if you want to do that rather than making me repeat why I think you‘re scum so you can convince me otherwise. I‘m not that important over what you can do yourself for that to matter. Mafia fights as a team against individual townies. It is important to find townies and build a team to find and lynch them together But you don‘t need me to necessarily townread you if you can post a convincing case for why someone is more likely mafia than you. I am still try to figure out which one makes more sense az or mocstar both are scummy as hell for me. On June 13 2024 11:35 die_meatbaby wrote:
I think I was maybe wrong with my scott read... Note that until this point, die_meatbaby's read on scott31337 was town. So if die_meatbaby is considering scott31337 as mafia, can she seriously consider AlphaZero being mafia? Of anyone in the game, I think those two would be the absolutely least likely to be mafia together. If she was more sure in scott31337 being mafia this would be more incriminating, as it is I don't think it's a big deal, but it is interesting that die_meatbaby didn't seem to follow up the questioning over scott31337's alignment. Even if she didn't consider it super urgent, if she's town, she ought to, no? Since it affects her decision between Mocsta and AlphaZero, which is what she was focusing on? On June 15 2024 08:36 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 15 2024 08:30 Trfel wrote:On June 15 2024 08:18 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 15 2024 08:13 Trfel wrote:
Maybe I'm just stupid. I'd hate to get cold feet and miss out on lynching mafia for no reason, and it's possible die_meatbaby is mafia and took my hesitation as a chance to jump in and defend herself.
But also maybe not.
Someone else say something? I'm really sorry that I wasn't as active here as usual. I still tried to do my best with an absolutely shitty time management. Also you were kinda tunneld on me but that happend to me often enough too. Hm, I think you've had plenty of opportunities. I've reached out to you a ton. I wouldn't call that tunneled. More that there hasn't been much reason to think differently. I'd lynch scott31337, I'd very likely lynch Vivax, I'd mayyyyyyyyyyyybbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeee lynch raynpelikoneet but probably not today. I will filter scott fast again. I am still to unsure of vivax and actually would prefer to lynch me for less activity then him, because if he is really town he could help you all later better then I could. Rayn is always gets nk when he is town or at least in the last few games I have played with him. If he is not getting nk soon. He is maybe scum, but for now also not my prefered lynch Also, what happened here? Die_meatbaby said she'd rather have herself be lynched than Vivax, but clearly she changed her mind? Looks like this happened due to AlphaZero's point about Vivax dumping his scumreads before getting mislynched last time and seemingly not doing so here. I also have no clue why die_meatbaby unvoted from scott31337. Context shows that I said I preferred lynching Vivax to scott31337, then die_meatbaby votes for scott31337, then AlphaZero says he thinks Vivax is more likely mafia than scott31337, then AlphaZero votes for Vivax, raynpelikoneet follows and votes for Vivax, and then die_meatbaby unvotes. Huh? Just doesn't feel like a sensible reaction. My best guess is that die_meatbaby unvoted due to not thinking that scott31337 would be a viable wagon. In this case, however, she'd be choosing to vote between Vivax and AlphaZero, and while I can't say she didn't do this, she didn't mention considering the AlphaZero wagon at all. Feels like she unvoted scott31337 and then.... waited to go onto Vivax for some reason? It's hard for me to know if this makes sense from town or not. For die_meatbaby to be town and do this, she'd have to be investigating scott31337's filter and not be sold on the Vivax lynch, then see support for the scott31337 wagon (that she was convinced enough on to vote for it) go away and then unvote without a new place to put the vote? If die_meatbaby is town and actually cared about scott31337 being lynched, I would have expected her to protest the wagon losing support, or at least leave her vote on it until she found something better, no? Why would she remove her vote when she doesn't seem very excited about any other option and there was no reason to go back on the read in the first place? If that makes sense. It's another little thing that isn't super incriminating, but it's the best I've got.
ConclusionMore little things. Not sure if any of it makes die_meatbaby mafia, but here it is anyway. 1. Die_meatbaby post Vivax flip said she'd look into scott31337 again but also wanted to hold the people for lynching Vivax responsible (presumably including AlphaZero, who was the one she was responding to about looking into scott31337). This doesn't really make sense from the perspective of someone who knows that AlphaZero contributed significantly to lynching Vivax and also knows that scott31337 didn't do so. As in, if die_meatbaby is aware of these things, which she really ought to be, then I have a hard time seeing how both of these post-flip comments can be made from the same mindset. 2. Die_meatbaby didn't seem to try to figure out scott31337's alignment day 3, despite it being key to other reads she seemed much more interested in. 3. Unvote timing on scott31337 doesn't make much sense really tinfoil point no3. but you know its true you have game bragging rights.. and then in-real life bragging rights town or mafia dmb can gloat over being part of vivax mislynch.. realsitically, only one of these alignments views it as a gloat... perhaps the cards were directly revealed by that very action... i know you hate speculative, yet, that is equaly human nature that cannot and should not be ignored for special cases like that pairing this game. Hm... A few games ago, die_meatbaby was mafia and literally tried to save town!Vivax day 1 in the lynch with another townie. I think that disproves your theory?
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I'm sorry I guess I'm getting confused and am not sure what you are trying to say. Is it that Vivax's read on die_meatbaby being mafia due to her lack of read on him has merit?
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Isn't nice IPA a bit of an oxymoron?
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Uh, I'm just gonna wait until Koshi dies tbh.
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Good game all. Lots of nice plays.
Sorry for being bad Turns out you guys were really really good at lynching mafia when I didn't get in the way
Ah well.
And thanks a ton Grackaroni for hosting
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EPT
