EPT[M][N]Oil Futures Mafia
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 29 2020 16:45 Vivax wrote: im on phone formatting will keep it short. your case sounds an awful lot like you are implying that kurumi is doing what jock did in holy guardians except you did so at a time when trfel had at most 4 or 5 posts that didnt say much about his alignment. also again you are acting like you know my alignment from the start when ive been mostly shitposting before. ill play devils advocate with myself later but i find it odd atm that you and trfel didnt have the dejavus i had there. I remember the other game you are talking about and reading through the thread I did get flashbacks. I don't really get how you go from noticing the similarities to rayn having motivations other than scumhunting. Like you think rayn saw that trfel as lynchbait worked in the last game for town so he's leveraging the same idea as mafia and hoping that no-one will notice, with probably half the people playing in both games? I can't really see it. Its simpler just to think that trfel as lynchbait worked last time, kurumi wasn't here last time, rayn is thinking it might work again and get us a day 1 hit. The one thing I do agree with here is it looks like rayn is assuming you are town. I guess I can understand that based on meta (maaaaaaayyyyyybe), and he did say he townread you so its probably just a read more than an assumption. As for trfel's opening, stuff like that isn't really worth discussing unless he disappears at times that are overly convenient for mafia. + Show Spoiler + Is it bad or not? Let's let Team Liquid decide. On April 29 2020 05:41 GlowingBear wrote: This post is bad and you should feel bad for it. oh. @Glowingbear why is this such a bad post to you? I mean I don't agree with it really or see how it will have the intended effect but it doesn't seem so bad from an AI perspective @Kurumi: + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2020 07:48 Kurumi wrote: What do you mean? So far they've: -started the game out by saying they're going to be lazy -asked Alakaslam what does he mean with people giving excuses (see previous point, wut?) -asked me how I'm going to play and fished for whether I checked out the player roster for past games and meta -now questions GlowingBear about Vivax which is first "OK" thing. I have no idea why you're pushing back on Trfel so much given that all I've done is cast some shade on them. On April 29 2020 08:10 Kurumi wrote: Besides, bringing more information into the thread is never wrong, especially when we establish connections people have to each other based on their reactions and interactions. Would you say that trfel asking the questions he asked brought more information into the thread? I mean, I now know who you have played with before and am better able to judge the different way you might interact with me compared to say rayn... which is useful. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 29 2020 10:09 Alakaslam wrote: Gonna have to side with Kurumi on the logic train. Defend yourself, not others, even when scum. Because it be scummy until the town begins wearing trousers on their head. Then defense the ally. On April 29 2020 15:17 Alakaslam wrote: Stuff getting really strangely simple. Like straight up people make excuse = they is scum. If Vivax is right. But it is funny, Trfel being more active than anyone else post excuse has me feeling townie on him even though it literally points scummier than before. Like, my head and my gut disagree I find these posts pretty scummy, like you want to agree with Kurumi but then want to back out for some reason. You seem so sure in one post and unsure in the next. Kurumi's logic train very much had to do with his suspicions on trfel and you seemed sure about it but then next thing you're like "yeah but maybe not." and that's it. Also, Kurumi's logic, I pointed out above why its bad logic. On the one hand, he says that all trfel has done is ask questions, but trfel's questions brought more information into the thread, which Kurumi says is 'never bad'. I don't think Kurumi is using consistent scumhunting logic here in going after trfel. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On April 30 2020 00:18 ShoCkeyy wrote: So far I have Slam, Koshi, and Kurumi on my possibly mafia list. Why koshi? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On April 30 2020 00:03 Kurumi wrote: + Show Spoiler + Trfel raynpelikoneet I have no idea with which one of these two I should start. There's an obvious triangle between them and me - with them defending each-other and pushing me, but pushing me so lightly that they don't even commit to a vote. And they do all this for me JUST pinging Trfel. Never called Trfel scum. Never voted Trfel. That's a misrepresentation. But the moment I mention Trfel to rayn, he believes that Trfel has shown "effort" (they did not, as I outlined in a post of mine). After this, rayn declares I should be suspicious of him because of his defense of Trfel - to which I have replied already as well. I was. I know that rayn tunnel-visions a lot, but the play he's shown this game is outright bogus to me. Trfel says one thing and then does the opposite. Which is, by definition, lying. You might have a good guess how I feel about liars. Rayn goes on saying that I'm illogically pushing Trfel for this, as if nothing Trfel would've done would change my attitude towards them. So here's what I can give on this front: if Trfel were truthful to their game-opening declaration, they'd be suspicious to me. BUT they would not be read as scum to me simply because of lack of information. Given how all this turned out, I believe Trfel to be scum. They go as far as literally reiterating rayn's previous point he made to me about how I should be suspicious of rayn and me not being suspicious of rayn is scummy. They also misrepresent me as saying "I'm gonna meta read everyone like crazy" which is wildly untrue. I expressed DOUBTS whether I can do that. Not that I can and will. And you know what's the best thing ever in Trfel's posting? On April 29 2020 10:40 Trfel wrote: -snip- However, I was mostly joking, to see people's reactions. It clearly wouldn't make much sense for me to try and give an excuse at the start of the game when I easily could have done so a few hours before. With the one caveat being that I tend to be a lower page-count player these past few games/years, I try to be more efficient with my posts, and I think it's been working fairly well. I just know some people tend to view that as suspicious. Amazing backpedal. So your plan from the start of the game was claim to be lazy and then call the first person to call you out scum? Because "mostly joking"? So not only you've lied about "being lazy" this game through your gameplay after I put some heat on you, you also admit it outright? Cool. So, the only reason I'm voting Trfel over raynpelikoneet really is that I think Trfel has a role. I'd rather have a scum-with-role dead than a vanilla scum dead. Easy? Easy. ##vote Trfel Holy wall of text Batman. You also seem overdefensive in this post (for someone who doesn't have any votes on them.) Trfel says one thing and then does the opposite. Which is, by definition, lying. You might have a good guess how I feel about liars. Rayn goes on saying that I'm illogically pushing Trfel for this, as if nothing Trfel would've done would change my attitude towards them. So here's what I can give on this front: if Trfel were truthful to their game-opening declaration, they'd be suspicious to me. BUT they would not be read as scum to me simply because of lack of information. Given how all this turned out, I believe Trfel to be scum. Are you sure trfel was lying and didn't just get into the game more than he expected to? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On April 30 2020 00:27 Kurumi wrote: I do know. I've been part of this forum for 9 years now and did my fair share of spamming. Trfel's questions were useless or bad. One they asked Alakaslam made absolutely no sense given that Trfel was one giving a cop-out. The way they questioned me about my opening post was not to make me introduce me into the game, but to learn how committed I am to the game. Why do they need to know how committed I am to the game? Well, it makes deciding how the N1 KP goes. I don't know whether to disagree with you or scumread you. I can't see how you've had such a reaction to rayn and trfel questioning how you started the game. You seem genuinely pissed off and i don't get why. Trfel's post is one that you see in about 70% of game openings and sometimes its a town post; sometimes its a mafia post, but you really can't tell from whether someone follows up on day 1 by being exactly as active as they said they would. I also really don't buy this theory that rayn and trfel are mafia coming after you for pinging trfel. Mafia are probably trying to hide or just watch right now. Maybe one of them is, but both, like this on day one? Nah On April 30 2020 00:32 ShoCkeyy wrote: That entrance is sounds totally like Koshi mafia entrance. say no more ##vote: koshi  | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On April 30 2020 00:58 Kurumi wrote: Wall of text? You people don't do big list posts or case posts anymore? As for the overdefensive comment, I'll take that as a good joke. Why do they think they have to get into the game more when all that's happened is I pinged them out? Overdefensive much, huh? I meant wall of text as in you didn't press enter at all and it makes it harder to read. Then that's bad practice you allow it. It sets up a potential deflection with "well, gee I told you guys I'm not going to do much..." which only creates confusion in the discussion. Look at what's happened: I call out Trfel ever so slightly and rayn comes swinging at me for no reason, so deep to even implicate himself, but never pushing himself to vote, mostly attacking me instead of defending Trfel. Meh. Most of the time posts like that come from town. Anywayit looks to me like rayn's just pressuring you to see what happens. As for trfel he could be mafia but he hasn't posted anything so far that makes me think he is. As for you comment to what Mafia is currently doing... why? You just voted Koshi, who's posted NOTHING besides promise of contributing for "pressure". He's pressured himself already a lot more than your vote did. And Shockeyy's. You're abandoning what's already developed in the thread to deflect onto one of the lurkers. Clearly my tongue was in my cheek for that vote, hence the smiley and the fact that of course i don't just believe shockeyy that koshi made his mafia entrance, or even has a koshi style of mafia entrance. And what the fuck is this "Maybe one of them is, but both, like this on day one? Nah". WHY? So you scumread one of them? What is this sentence even? I just don't think mafia would expose and align themselves that much as to both push you at the same time when nothing else has happened/is happening. I don't scumread either of them tbh. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On April 30 2020 01:31 Fecalfeast wrote: Wait jock says his vote on koshi was jokes? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Nah I genuinely thought he was mafia after his one post and shockeyy saying that post made him mafia. I was convinced. but alas! Now I have seen the light. ##unvote: koshi | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On May 01 2020 03:39 Trfel wrote: I don't know, honestly I never understood "mindmeld" stuff. To me, agreeing with someone or having the same thoughts as someone never means they are confirmed town or anything like that. Yes, I think GlowingBear could be wrong on Kurumi as town. I don't see why not? Here's how I see the 'mindmeld' thing. Its entirely meta based, or should be, from a town perspective. There's one guy on MU who reliably mindmelds with me on day 1 more than once if we're both town. Like every single game. If it happens, I know to townread him. Townreading someone off a mindmeld just because they said what you are thinking is absolutely terrible imo. If that's how you see the game, mafia just needs to make educated guesses at how you are seeing the game and get easy townreads. I do like how GB reevaluated his read on me though, it would have been super easy for him to keep pushing a SR on me, especially because I still hadn't posted at that point, so even though i see his early townread on kurumi as a bit suspicious, he's probably a town lean for me. also @glowingbear: + Show Spoiler + the two koshi posts, although I don't need to, I feel I should explain. The first post was a joke with a joke vote. You probably think that's stupid, fair enough. The second post was sarcasm, as trfel pointed out. There was no way I could hard scumread koshi from what he had posted so far in the thread, i was being sarcastic. read this again carefully from the perspective that I am being sarcastic: Nah I genuinely thought he was mafia after his one post and shockeyy saying that post made him mafia. I was convinced. I get now that responding to people not understanding a joke vote with sarcasm that people might also not understand isn't smart. I take responsibility for that. ------------ About shockeyy: On May 01 2020 03:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: GlowingBear: (3) Koshi, FecalFeast, Vivax ShoCkeyy: (3) Alakaslam, Trfel, Raynpelikoneet There's an obvious two mafia here. The third one can also be here, or just not voting, on some one else. But I definitely suspect two mafia here. Sorry Rayn, but I can't trust you on this. Given how probability works, and I know I'm not mafia; there's a very good and strong chance mafia is lined up here to lynch some one. At first I really liked Fefe pushing that post of shockeyy's. I was almost scumreading shockeyy based on him simply not explaining the post at all, and it not really making sense from most points of view that I could summon up. However, I think that's a really superficial reading and yes I'm sussing Fefe because of that. That post does make sense if you consider that shockeyy is scumreading the people who started both wagons (koshi and slam) before he made this post, and also sussing other people who are on the wagons. I think its consistent with his previous reads that he would see the two wagons as containing two obvious scum. His vote was on koshi and he SRs slam who started a wagon on him. If you look at shockeyy's other reads it also makes sense to think that if one of koshi/slam is not scum, then someone else on the wagons would be. TL:DR Shockeyy's 'two scum on these wagons' post makes perfect sense in the context of his other reads. I think I actually townread shockeyy for this. Quotes to support: + Show Spoiler + First he suspects Fefe + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2020 03:01 ShoCkeyy wrote: Rayn, please just re-read the thread and the interactions between GB and Koshi. I feel like most people here don't read and just base decisions on others decisions. I'm putting pressure on Slam, because I personally think that Koshi and Slam are partners. Could Jock be in there? sure? But what GB is saying about Koshi relieving pressure on Jock is true. I personally hope that Jock didn't roll mafia again, but that Koshi play right there can be two things. True mafia work, or town work. Slam voting me, 15 mins after not wanting to vote for me screams setup play between the two for D2. He already scumreads koshi and slam + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2020 03:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: GlowingBear: (3) Koshi, FecalFeast, Vivax ShoCkeyy: (3) Alakaslam, Trfel, Raynpelikoneet There's an obvious two mafia here. The third one can also be here, or just not voting, on some one else. But I definitely suspect two mafia here. Sorry Rayn, but I can't trust you on this. Given how probability works, and I know I'm not mafia; there's a very good and strong chance mafia is lined up here to lynch some one. Then he makes this post. He suspects that slam and koshi are partners. However, he also suspects Fefe. From this its easy to see why he thinks that there's two scum on these wagons, unless you haven't looked in his ISO or read his posts properly. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On May 01 2020 14:11 Trfel wrote: If I stop focusing on GlowingBear's alignment and look at others, I see Koshi being mafia a lot more easily than I see raynpelikoneet being mafia. But I'm listening to what people say about raynpelikoneet, it would be dumb to ignore. Suspicious of Koshi because: Says he likes ShoCkeyy possibly even less than GlowingBear, says he could move from GlowingBear to ShoCkeyy at the deadline, then doesn't do so. Says he votes for the scummiest low-activity poster while voting GlowingBear instead of ShoCkeyy (after GlowingBear's string of update posts). .............. Calls for vigilante shot on Chezinu instead of ShoCkeyy, who has been his secondary target previously Thoughts? If this is suggesting koshi/shockeyy mafia I don't think so. Shockeyy's hard scumread on koshi is too much for early bussing imo. Otherwise I think the best part of this case is here:+ Show Spoiler + Mild "don't lynch Kurumi" post. Feels so mild-mannered for Koshi, who is usually such an aggressive poster. He doesn't seem to care much about who gets lynched between GlowingBear, his super scumread, and Kurumi, his townread. Tells raynpelikoneet to keep voting for Kurumi while sticking on GlowingBear himself Its really hard to parse town motivation from these two posts. It looks like there's a contradiction, like don't townread kurumi for that post he made but we shouldn't lynch him but don't stop voting him based on that post. If you didn't want kurumi lynched, your objective should be to stop town from lynching him. why would you tell rayn to ignore that post and suggest that kurumi might be mafia for posting it? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On May 01 2020 20:35 Koshi wrote: Kurumi cheated and deserved to die. You shouldnt talk about getting replaced and shit like that. It's 99% times town being truthful over mafia doing a very dirty trick. Ah I don't know you well enough to know if this would make you ignore the townread you had on him if you're town. I'm suspicious. 'He's town but he can die because i don't like what he did' is bad. Its an easy out for mafia to position themselves as being ok with the mislynch, and it gives you a moral argument about the game which is not useful. Who cares if he deserves to die if he's town? What wincon are we playing to here? Also mafia would be much more likely to pissed off at him for pulling that kinda stuff. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
They independently seem scummy. Koshi for his EoD with kurumi as explained above and Fefe for his push on shockeyy which only takes a brief look at shockeyy's reads and filter to debunk. Add to that Koshi hard townreading Fefe in a way that looks like it could never change and Fefe barely mentioning koshi in his 5 page filter except to pressure shockeyy about his scumread on koshi. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On April 29 2020 09:45 Alakaslam wrote: Meh, NAI but also unnecessary. Just kinda bad. I cant always be here, I don’t have to go on and on about my daily teaching schedule or coronavirus actually making me busier and whatnot. I just show up when I can. Because I’m town, and therefore dont give a shit what people think. On May 01 2020 03:31 Alakaslam wrote: I dont care about my image I care about finding scum. If you want to waste your vote on me then go ahead and do it. On May 01 2020 05:25 Alakaslam wrote: “Slam you shit at scum, cant you see? How can you be this stupid slam?” Trash your vote then, you all ready know I dont give a cuss what you think of my alignment or anyone else for that matter, if I get lynched I get lynched. Go back to being productive and stop insulting my scum play. If slam really doesn't care what people think shouldn't that come through in his posting without him having to tell us twice a day that he doesn't care? Honestly the way he went off at people for (in slam's view) insinuating that he might be a sloppy mafia player really makes me think he's just overcompensating for mafia paranoia. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On May 01 2020 22:28 Vivax wrote: Thanks. Jock can you stop putting stuff in spoilers? It really helps. Confirms what I was thinking, anyways, tho I fell for it before the sarcasm. But also kinda obvious answer if he's mafia. Okay, debunk it please? I already did. On May 01 2020 20:12 Jockmcplop wrote: At first I really liked Fefe pushing that post of shockeyy's. I was almost scumreading shockeyy based on him simply not explaining the post at all, and it not really making sense from most points of view that I could summon up. However, I think that's a really superficial reading and yes I'm sussing Fefe because of that. That post does make sense if you consider that shockeyy is scumreading the people who started both wagons (koshi and slam) before he made this post, and also sussing other people who are on the wagons. I think its consistent with his previous reads that he would see the two wagons as containing two obvious scum. His vote was on koshi and he SRs slam who started a wagon on him. If you look at shockeyy's other reads it also makes sense to think that if one of koshi/slam is not scum, then someone else on the wagons would be. TL:DR Shockeyy's 'two scum on these wagons' post makes perfect sense in the context of his other reads. I think I actually townread shockeyy for this. Quotes to support: + Show Spoiler + First he suspects Fefe + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2020 03:01 ShoCkeyy wrote: Rayn, please just re-read the thread and the interactions between GB and Koshi. I feel like most people here don't read and just base decisions on others decisions. I'm putting pressure on Slam, because I personally think that Koshi and Slam are partners. Could Jock be in there? sure? But what GB is saying about Koshi relieving pressure on Jock is true. I personally hope that Jock didn't roll mafia again, but that Koshi play right there can be two things. True mafia work, or town work. Slam voting me, 15 mins after not wanting to vote for me screams setup play between the two for D2. He already scumreads koshi and slam + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2020 03:09 ShoCkeyy wrote: GlowingBear: (3) Koshi, FecalFeast, Vivax ShoCkeyy: (3) Alakaslam, Trfel, Raynpelikoneet There's an obvious two mafia here. The third one can also be here, or just not voting, on some one else. But I definitely suspect two mafia here. Sorry Rayn, but I can't trust you on this. Given how probability works, and I know I'm not mafia; there's a very good and strong chance mafia is lined up here to lynch some one. Then he makes this post. He suspects that slam and koshi are partners. However, he also suspects Fefe. From this its easy to see why he thinks that there's two scum on these wagons, unless you haven't looked in his ISO or read his posts properly. I can stop using spoilers if you want. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On May 01 2020 22:14 Vivax wrote: What are you talking about. Where did he talk about getting replaced because I can't find it on a quick read. On May 01 2020 03:44 Kurumi wrote: I waited until my lynch was more or less assured, I asked for a replacement 11 and half hours ago because I couldn't muster any interest to play this game. So to make sure you don't make me suffer another fucking cycle I decided to come and say hi. You mad? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On May 01 2020 22:59 Vivax wrote: Thanks, I'm getting anoptic or something. Looked at Shockey's 'there's two scum here' stuff and can't figure out why he was so sure of GB being a town wagon here when he previously posted 'I think Koshi is more likely mafia than GB'. Doesn't exactly scream 100% confidence on the GB wagon being on town. So no Jock, I don't see how it is easy to see why thinks there's two scum on the wagons. It literally only makes sense if you argue he was so sure that Koshi was mafia that he was never going to think that GB could be. But then why didn't he say so? But literally all of his scumreads and people that he is suspicious of are on those two wagons. It makes perfect sense that he says that's where scum is. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On May 01 2020 23:35 Vivax wrote: He mentioned Slam and Koshi before. That is fine, except I'm not okay with the way he went after Koshi. But then he pulls out the wagons, and says there's got to be two mafia on them. Then adds me and FF to a random list because he says he TRs Trfel and rayn. If he said 'look I know I'm town and I think there's scum on my wagon', then that would be okay. But why both wagons, and why two mafia? FF he also suspected, although it was just an offhand comment about maybe ff being mafia. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9650 Posts
On May 01 2020 23:53 GlowingBear wrote: I'm over the joke posts, it seems I was the only one who didn't get it. I didn't read Kurumi as town just because I thought we mindmelded in the early day1. It was ONE of the reasons why I felt he was town. But I've talked a lot about it. What do you think of Vivax? I'm null on him at the moment. Basically I disagree with most of what he has written but for me and vivax that happens in most games so NAI. I'm open to him being scum, but for now I've put him in the 'read later when more information is available' pile. Grack and chez too. The read I'm most struggling with at the moment is rayn. He isn't definitely town yet at all. None of these are a priority for a day 2 lynch for me though. I'm in a koshi/Fefe/slam world. Do you have any thoughts on that or anything else i've posted today? | ||
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