EPTDark Tournament Mini Mafia
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Rels
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4 more and we're full! | ||
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On November 25 2015 06:58 Rels wrote: FUCK I WANNA PLAY That didn't change | ||
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come in. You know you want to | ||
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On November 30 2015 02:15 Fidei86 wrote: pregame excuse I am bad at mafia Mm ... I'll roll with this one. | ||
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On November 27 2015 02:04 Half the Sky wrote: Pre-game excuse - If this game starts soon, I have two job interviews on Monday so I won't be anywhere near this game especially if either of them go really well \o/ Well, here's hoping. So what's the news ? | ||
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On December 01 2015 03:41 Damdred wrote: pregame excuse.... We should all annoy kush cause he's a cool dude Sounds good. Changing my pregame excuse to this one. | ||
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If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup. Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do. Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched. Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas | ||
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On December 01 2015 08:40 MoosyDoosy wrote: Rels speak more so i can soul read you as usual. Good night | ||
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On December 01 2015 08:43 Damdred wrote: Yeah I should know better than to speak actual good advice into the game I suppose. Boxers are innocent children, they shorten the lynch pool, they help the vig and the cop know who not to shoot into. There is no down side for them to claim unless the mafia members are blue hunting n1 which is stupid anyway. And suspecting me for saying what is good advice is stupid. Is it stupid or scummy ? | ||
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On December 01 2015 08:47 DoYouHas wrote: You don't make sense. Mafia get to know the setup info right? That's how I remember this kind of game working. Even if they don't, you are so afraid of gaming the rb that you would throw away a confirmed townie and better lynch choices? I don't understand why you would affirm something like that without checking it first. This looks like you are dumbtelling. | ||
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On December 01 2015 09:01 Fidei86 wrote: Evening all. Usual plea for everyone to avoid spam if possible - if few meaningful posts was good enough for Foolishness in that game he played in the guide, it's good enough for us. Also I know at least me and Dani work quite intense jobs, so it's very hard to keep up if there's 10 new pages every time I come back. So that people know, the people in the game I know best are Half the Sky and Rels. I've been town with both, supervised both when I GMed and was Mafia with Rels once. I also have played with a lot of the rest of you before, including Moosy, Lightning Strike, Onegu and Damdred. I don't know DYH, trfel, dis, Kush or Palmar very well. Early on, I'd say the easiest scum read is Shining. He posted asking why he was here, then about trumpets, then he went quiet. It's early, so it's lean. DYH's question of Rels seems towny, although I also think Rels' entrance was kind of towny, albeit wrongheaded. When he's Mafia Rels buddies up with everyone he likes and relentlessly fights with anyone who calls him out. I wouldn't expect a Mafia Rels to jump in and start picking fights so early, even about blues. Everyone else is null. I'm on GMT so it's way past my bed-time. Night all. Mm. I don't like this town read on me this early. I don't think my first post warrants this "oh Rels is not playing his scum meta". Why is my entrance wrongheaded ? | ||
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On December 01 2015 18:00 Trfel wrote: Hey Rels, let me know if you want to discuss anything when you're caught up. I really should go to bed but I'm stupid so whatever ^^ Have you ever apologized as mafia before ? | ||
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On December 01 2015 18:07 Trfel wrote: I don't know? Self-meta is really stupid, especially because it means I'm aware of it. And what I'm aware of, I can try to mess with... I mean, why are you asking, anyway? I'm the most obvious town in the game by a landslide, with my amazing play and crazy read abilities! Self meta means nothing here since you've already apologized in the thread. If you lie on your self meta you're probably going to get caught. Too bad then, I'll have to read your filter from last game. This apology took me by surprise: On December 01 2015 10:07 Trfel wrote: Life is so frustrating  My communication skills appear to be miserable. I'll try to reread the thread later tonight. Damdred, apologies for using that type of read. Regardless of whether or not I am right, that creates stupid arguments and makes the game miserable. Thanks for being a bit more sensible than I am (regardless of alignment). I found your play before that post aggressive like in the last game you've played, so I was suspicious of you; that "I'm sorry" post made me re evaluate. | ||
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On December 01 2015 09:52 Damdred wrote: Its just bad reasoning for why I sort of think Trfel is townish? Like its really really to early for me to be sold on it, but the way trfel goes defensive and omgus instead of sort of buddying up to me and trying to change my mind that way made me think maybe its just town being dumb. What do you think of this then ? On December 01 2015 10:07 Trfel wrote: Life is so frustrating My communication skills appear to be miserable. I'll try to reread the thread later tonight. Damdred, apologies for using that type of read. Regardless of whether or not I am right, that creates stupid arguments and makes the game miserable. Thanks for being a bit more sensible than I am (regardless of alignment). | ||
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On December 01 2015 18:16 Trfel wrote: I kind of want to lynch The Shining, but that seems like a very bad idea right now. He's put in a bunch of effort (regardless of alignment) on a busy day for him. Most of the problems that I have with his posts are wording, tone, and a bit of consistency, which aren't the most reliable. I do feel that his posting somewhat fits mafia motivation, but I'm nowhere near confident enough to be happy lynching him now. I feel that The Shining's alignment will become very clear with a bit more time. 1 - this is sooooo non commital. 2 - we're right on the period Shining has no internet. So I have no idea what additionnal info you will have when he AFK for 24 hours. | ||
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On December 01 2015 18:44 Trfel wrote: What part of the "not lynching The Shining" part did you miss? I thought I read "I kind of want to lynch The Shining" somewhere in that post. This part about Shining reads to me as "I'm OK lynching Shining but I'll need someone to convince me." | ||
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On December 01 2015 12:47 Damdred wrote: I'm pretty sure that shinny is town and a horrible lynch tbh. Onto that trfel post I don't mind it so much, its a bit odd in one respect that if trfel was scum he would want stupid arguments in thread and me tilting not being calm. That's total wifom and not worth talking about. overall I think its not quite indicative either way but its a good sentiment I think this post makes Shining town unless Shining and Damdred are scum together. Here is why: 1 - Damdred has a godlike read on Shining. This "I'm pretty sure that shinny is town and a horrible lynch tbh." made me think of Damdred post on Shining last game (both were town): On November 21 2015 08:36 Damdred wrote: Shining is 100% town and anyone who wants to lynch him tommorow will literally have to scream over me while I spam the thread to hell. No way this is scum shining 2 - So if Damdred is town, it is super likely Shining is town. 3 - If Damdred is scum, then it doesn't mean anything. It either means Damdred is using his "godlike read" to protect a town Shining, or is protecting a scum buddy. TLDR: If Damdred is town, Shining is super likely town. | ||
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Onegu kushmasta DoYouHas Do stuff or be lynched. | ||
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On December 01 2015 19:13 Fidei86 wrote: This was actually a mistake on my part. I found myself totally agreeing with your view on the blue claim, but then someone pointed out that the mafia would know the setup anyway. That is usually how it is. But then I read the OP a couple of times and I couldn't see anywhere that the mafia would know. So perhaps it wasn't wrongheaded. Had you read the OP when you made that post? Yes. I don't like that useless question that follows the explanation of what I should say to be townie. | ||
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On December 01 2015 19:33 Palmar wrote: I'm not up to date and I'll be stuck in a conference thing through today. I did read one post by doyouhas and it was completely awful. Possibly lynch worthy. I'll probably not read or talk much until tonight. I'm less inclined to lynch shining than I was yesterday Are you good at reading Damdred ? Do you have a Damdred read ? | ||
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On December 01 2015 19:24 Fidei86 wrote: Um, not quite. It's more of a total gut read from me, that she's not being candid with her thoughts. You and she both know that she's my favourite person on this site by miles, so I'm not going to just blindly tunnel her. I just wondered if anyone else agrees with my thinking. I reread her posts. Can you give me some examples ? | ||
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On December 01 2015 21:45 Fidei86 wrote: @Rels I have looked over HTS' posts, and I am more okay with #209 now that I've read it a few times. There's nothing particularly objectionable in there. At #219, I disagree with her read on the Palmar / Shining interaction. There is something very strange about Shining's progression, and HTS just skates past it. She then at #224, #237 and #246 goes forward and then back on on Trfel. She asks Shining about people other than Palmar, but noticeably doesn't ask Palmar about people other than Shining. I know that HTS is very much a fan of Palmar's scum play. I know that she has previously had him as a coach and that she generally speaks highly of him as a player. It is strange to me that she almost specifically avoids interacting with him, or making any comments about him. Honestly, if she can't read him, it seems like the rest of us don't have a chance. None of the above is a guaranteed scum-tell. But I find it somewhat suspicious. Town HTS nitpicks as well, but I just always get the sense that she is going somewhere with her thoughts. That seems lacking to me. I don't agree with #219's analysis. I relate to her because I also don't know if what Palmar brings on Shining is really incriminating. I don't agree with Trfel's back and forth being scum indicative. She asked a question, got told by Trfel she didn't understand correctly his meaning, and backed off. I don't understand the Shining / Palmar difference. Why is HTS asking Shining his reads and not Palmar is scum indicative ? I agree with HTS' post lacking something though. She comes into the thread with two scumleans; interacts with the two of them; then leaves without a list or anything. | ||
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On December 01 2015 08:57 DoYouHas wrote: I assumed your post was a bit of a joke. Reconsidering with how fast you jumped on the defensive here. "Trfel you might be scum." 2 posts later: On December 01 2015 08:57 Damdred wrote: You are an idiot but you are most likely town. If you can't explain in a coherent way why I am mafia then obviously I am not. Damdred: "Trfel is most likely town." 1 post later: On December 01 2015 09:00 DoYouHas wrote: I'm pretty happy with Damdred atm. With the exception of one point in his first post I feel like I've got the mind meld going with him... for now. TLDR: you crazy trfel "Trfel you're crazy." So Trfel is considered town here. It doesn't add up. ##Vote DoYouHas | ||
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On December 01 2015 22:46 Fidei86 wrote: Rels are you town this game? Yes. What make you doubt ? | ||
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On December 01 2015 09:57 Palmar wrote: I thought Trfel is town because of something. I think I also thought disformation is town, but don't quote me on that. Would love to know what. | ||
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On December 01 2015 09:52 Damdred wrote: Its just bad reasoning for why I sort of think Trfel is townish? Like its really really to early for me to be sold on it, but the way trfel goes defensive and omgus instead of sort of buddying up to me and trying to change my mind that way made me think maybe its just town being dumb. Damdred: "Trfel is town because he's omgusing me; if he was scum, he would try to buddy me." On December 01 2015 10:07 Trfel wrote: Life is so frustrating My communication skills appear to be miserable. I'll try to reread the thread later tonight. Damdred, apologies for using that type of read. Regardless of whether or not I am right, that creates stupid arguments and makes the game miserable. Thanks for being a bit more sensible than I am (regardless of alignment). Trfel is nice to Damdred. On December 01 2015 12:43 MoosyDoosy wrote: Really? No one pointed this post out? hm...would like to see Palmar and Damdred's take on this. MD brings up the post. On December 01 2015 12:47 Damdred wrote: I'm pretty sure that shinny is town and a horrible lynch tbh. Onto that trfel post I don't mind it so much, its a bit odd in one respect that if trfel was scum he would want stupid arguments in thread and me tilting not being calm. That's total wifom and not worth talking about. overall I think its not quite indicative either way but its a good sentiment Damdred: "It's WIFOM but probably town points because if Trfel was scum, he would attack me to tilt me." @Damdred: I don't follow your logic between these: On December 01 2015 09:52 Damdred wrote: the way trfel goes defensive and omgus instead of sort of buddying up to me and trying to change my mind that way made me think maybe its just town being dumb. On December 01 2015 12:47 Damdred wrote: Onto that trfel post I don't mind it so much, its a bit odd in one respect that if trfel was scum he would want stupid arguments in thread and me tilting not being calm. That's total wifom and not worth talking about. In the first Trfel is attacking you, with bad arguments from your POV since you are town; you say it's town indicative. Then he stops and you say if he was scum he would attack you with stupid argument. Well, that is exactly what he did before his apology from your POV, and actually you townread him for it. Please explain. Then: is Trfel town right now ? If yes, what would he do if he was scum ? If no, what would he do if he was town ? | ||
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On December 01 2015 23:49 Damdred wrote: Your missing the point of that post why it is non alignment indicative, he's apologizing but he's not buddying me. I'll answer all questions in a sec The weird thing is not about the apologizing vs buddying. It's about attacking you with stupid arguments. Time A: Trfel is attacking with arguments that are wrong and maybe stupid if you're town. You say Trfel is town for attacking you like that. Time B: You say scum!Trfel would attack you with stupid arguments, so he might be town. Something is wrong here. | ||
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On December 02 2015 00:12 Damdred wrote: No time b isn't exactly what said at all? On December 01 2015 12:47 Damdred wrote: Onto that trfel post I don't mind it so much, its a bit odd in one respect that if trfel was scum he would want stupid arguments in thread and me tilting not being calm. That's total wifom and not worth talking about. overall I think its not quite indicative either way but its a good sentiment That's what I understand of that post. "Trfel's apology is WIFOM, but I think if he was scum he would continue attacking me with stupid arguments to make me tilt." Do I understand wrong ? | ||
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On December 02 2015 00:17 Half the Sky wrote: James, right now, I'd say town given how he's broken down the case. On DYH, definitely odd how looking at timestamps, that progression. I looked at his filter quickly and he responds on things related to Palmar/Shining but didn't reconsider Trfel or at least that reaction in conjunction with something else, since I believe Trfel was up late in skimming. Unless there was reason not to, there was a lack of followup there. Not sure I like this reaction from kushmasta either. He makes an assumption that Shining would or should react the same way he does. It is why I asked Shining what his other reads were, and they looked reasonable at first glance last night. Also begs the question why he's still voting Rels or why he feels Rels initial push was worse than Shining's. I'm lying down for a few hours, any more questions, fire away. Sure. I remember you having a good read on LS. What is your read on him this game ? | ||
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On December 02 2015 00:20 Damdred wrote: Partially yes, its all semantics though and shades of the same thing. You said in that post that scum!Trfel would attack you with stupid arguments. Trfel is still attacking you in his last posts. Do you still think he's town ? Why / why not ? | ||
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On December 02 2015 01:11 LightningStrike wrote: Just got to college campus and took care of stuff and about Palmar: It's meta read that I have on him because he did similar stuff to me in Metal Mini which you observed and I do find Shining town for now although he did show huge emotions as scum last game but I giving him a benefit of a doubt. Mainly Shining's content seems better ths game than his last game when he was scum vs me. Any idea on what could be scum ? | ||
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On December 02 2015 01:17 Trfel wrote: I don't see a difference. What difference do you see between them (with regards to my alignment)? + Show Spoiler [Explanation] + Two more hypothetical scenarios... Hypothetical scenario A: Trfel knew that Bob made the pre-game post about not being there. What makes mafia!Trfel more likely to scumread Bob than town!Trfel? Hypothetical scenario B: Trfel didn't know that Bob made the pre-game post about not being there. Why is it any different that Trfel posted suspicions of Bob instead of any of the other players who hadn't posted yet and had no pre-game excuse? Trfel didn't know the difference at the time, he could have posted about any of them. This makes a lot of sense. Damdred's reason to initially attack Trfel is not logical. | ||
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On December 02 2015 01:27 Trfel wrote: Under normal circumstances, I'd be suspicious of The Shining here and would be maybe willing to lynch him Day 1. However, since The Shining probably won't be able to play much today, and wasn't 100% there yesterday, I think that giving him a Day 1 pass is probably best. Sorry that wasn't clear in my initial posts. Is anyone else kind of suspicious of Rels? The way that he has been throwing suspicions at everyone feels like he's trying to keep his options open to lynch anyone he chooses. I don't recall him posting a single townread (which isn't that important), but the way he's been pressuring so many people without follow through or without a serious push seem so strange. The vote on DoYouHas feels extremely opportunistic, as well. I was really hoping that DoYouHas wouldn't be brought up for a while, I wanted to see what he did if he wasn't bothered. I remember checking the exact same thing that Rels mentioned earlier, and I'm not entirely on board, but I'll let DoYouHas speak for himself. Yep I'm suspicious of too many people. I would lynch Damdred or DYH right now; fidei is weird; HTS' post on LS makes a lot of sense. Onegu and kush are useless. | ||
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On December 02 2015 01:28 LightningStrike wrote: I told you earlier that I think Tfrel is scum mainly his stuff about me..... His "stuff about you" was a trap that he didn't believe in. I don't think Trfel has posted a read on you. Does knowing that make you re evaluate ? | ||
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On December 02 2015 00:25 Damdred wrote: Let me explain in some semblance of an answer. Trfel uses stupid arguments early to try to convinced thread that damdred is scum. (I use stupid here not in offense to trfel) Time passes, damdred town leans him for the stupid argument. Later trfel decides his argument is partially stupid so apologizes for it but states he still doesn't think damdred is totally town. Scum trfel doesn't like giving up things and fights for his stupid arguments. I know this is wifom so I font think its indicative. Its different if only slightly That's true he apologized. But he's still attacking you for the same idea; that you attacked him because LS posted something pregame. If you thought it was stupid then, you should think it's still stupid now. How is Trfel not "fighting for his stupid argument" if he's still attacking you with the same one ? | ||
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On December 02 2015 01:36 Trfel wrote: You know, I take back my suspicion. Under normal circumstances it would be valid, but given the circumstances I'm kind of in the same place. The big thing is the lack of follow through, then, and that's very subjective; I'll look again later. By saying that Half the Sky's post on LightningStrike makes sense, are you saying that you think that LightningStrike is scum, or Half the Sky is town, or both? Both. | ||
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On December 02 2015 01:37 Trfel wrote: Why do you think that my attack on geript in that game is relevant to my alignment this game? Sorry, I just really don't see the connection. ++ | ||
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On December 01 2015 17:52 Rels wrote: I don't understand why you would affirm something like that without checking it first. This looks like you are dumbtelling. On December 01 2015 22:22 Rels wrote: I don't like that progression from DoYouHas. "Trfel you might be scum." 2 posts later: Damdred: "Trfel is most likely town." 1 post later: "Trfel you're crazy." So Trfel is considered town here. It doesn't add up. ##Vote DoYouHas See you tonight (= | ||
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On December 02 2015 01:45 disformation wrote: Washing machine running. Here we go: Yes, it is really really really bad reasoning, especially since scum!Trfel did something very similar in NSM17. In that game geript called out scum!Trfel on his case on VE and instead of trying to buddying up to geript scum!Trfel proceeds to try to get ppl suspicious of geript (even with a short case later on) and tries to emit a frustrated town vibe. If you see something different in this game, that I missed please feel free to point it out.  That being said I, too think that Trfel's apology has a very towny tone to it and that it doesn't look like something he did in NSM17... Still doesn't really explain where your super bad reasoning comes from after you just played a game with scum!Trfel, where he tried similar things. xD Don't dare being scum with this chatty tone. That would break my heart | ||
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On December 02 2015 06:11 disformation wrote: Ah nearly forgot to mention: The Shining was asking DYI about: So I am looking forward to finding out whether DYH answered that. On December 01 2015 11:36 DoYouHas wrote: In his second point he encouraged us to all make as many reads as we can. A swarm of reads, particularly ones that aren't strong just scatter the focus of the thread and make rereads a quagmire. I dislike lots of lists. There are a few times when giving a more complete picture of how you view the game is useful, like right before the end of the night. On the Shining/Palmar interaction so far. Palmar seems town to me with the productive way he is pressuring. I also like his reasoning as he is going after Shining. That being said, everything after this post + Show Spoiler + On December 01 2015 09:44 The Shining wrote: Welp since I'm a moron so early in the game, I see no reason to talk to Palmar now or ever again this game. If you're town, consider the fact that you just pissed off a townie to the point where I'm going to think everything you're doing in this game is wrong. So you can have fun pushing the d1 mislynch in me or leave me around and bumping heads with me the rest of the game. Talking to you isn't going to get either of us anywhere and I'm done with it. Get me lynched if you want, I just think you're retarded and stubborn town at this point and I still think Fidei's post is a lot less fine than you make it out to be so there's no reason for me to try and convince you otherwise. Strikes me as VERY townie. Fast, frustrated, and spiteful. The way he kept coming back for more after saying he was out feels like genuine emotional reaction to being pushed wrongly. Palmar basically pressured something that was a little out of place and then ran with it when Shining reacted poorly and went for OMGUS. For me that isn't enough for a lynch with my feel for Shining's play stated above. | ||
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On December 02 2015 07:28 disformation wrote: You ninja you.  Can we add MoosyDoosy to this list? Sure. On December 02 2015 07:28 disformation wrote: Also while we are mentioning Onegu: I shadowed him once, when he was town and I vaguely remember some talk in that game about him claiming/not claiming VT. He simply does this as both alignments right? Yep. | ||
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I am not inspired by the few posts he made while I was sleeping. Could come from either alignement; plus I didn't like the "I do nothing for 5 hours, say I filter dove 4 people and I got no result". I looked the database entry for him: [W] Newbie Mini Mafia III Town Detective Survived [W] Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII Town Vanilla Lynched Day 2 [W] Newbie Mini Mafia IV Town Vanilla Endgamed [N] A Game of Thrones Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 1 [M][N] The Sum of All Fears Mafia Mafia Vanilla Survived [N] TL Mafia LIV Town Vanilla Killed Night 2 [M][N] Dwarf Fortress Mini Mafia Mafia Vanilla Survived [M][T] Paranoia Mafia Town Vigilante Killed Night 2 [M][T] Witchcraft Mini Mafia Mafia Godfather Lynched Day 2 [N] The Game Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 5 Since his second game, he was never lynched as town; but often killed. And he was lynched in his most recent scum game. His filter this game is not a "never lynch this guy" filter; and it's sure not a "this guy will probably be NK" filter. | ||
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On December 01 2015 09:01 Fidei86 wrote: DYH's question of Rels seems towny, although I also think Rels' entrance was kind of towny, albeit wrongheaded. When he's Mafia Rels buddies up with everyone he likes and relentlessly fights with anyone who calls him out. I wouldn't expect a Mafia Rels to jump in and start picking fights so early, even about blues. I had posted only 2 posts at the time, and only one relevent: On December 01 2015 08:37 Rels wrote: Yo. If you're boxer you fucking shut up. There is two possible mafia setups: one with two possible town setups with one boxer each so it doesn't matter. And one when we have either boxer + vet, or cop + vig. In that last case, mafia wants to roleblock their kill target in the vet setup, or roleblock someone else on the cop + vig setup. Boxer claiming would make them know what is the thing to do. Tldr if you're boxer you shut up unless you're getting lynched. Tldr 2 the two people pushing for boxer to claim are suspicious. Damdred and doyouhas Now fidei townreads me off that post, because apparently my scum meta is not picking fights so early. I just played a resistance game which fidei hosted. I was scum. Here is my filter; you can see I'm suspicious of several people very early in the game. This post is symptomatic of this: On November 02 2015 18:19 Rels wrote: OK bro. I don't have townreads on anyone that posted. I don't have scumreads on them either. I have suspicions on Superbia, kita and you. | ||
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On December 02 2015 19:05 Fidei86 wrote: Eh, I went to the cinema yesterday evening and then spent the rest of it catching up with friends. I have time at lunch time and will catch up. My old town meta, insofar as you think it was different, was before I totally fucked up the last Newbie game, which has really changed the way I view everything (and made me much less sure about myself). Obviously that read was super early on you Rels. I don't think the post you quoted necessarily disproves what I said though. Totally you were a lot more combative in your opening than I have seen previously - there is a difference between scum reading someone and calling someone out. The thing that concerns me about your play over the last day or so is that as scum you typically just nitpick/chase up nitpicks, and do so relentlessly. It's good scum play, as people can't say you're not contributing. I think you're probably town now, with the only reason being that I think scum Rels probably doesn't pick a fight with me, at least not this early. As you say, we have played a fair bit together, so I think you'd be wary of me. That's hardly a good reason, as it requires you having a high opinion of me. >> Come and talk to me then. What do you think of other people ? Especially: Damdred ? DYH ? HTS now that she has posted more since your gutread ? LS ? | ||
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On December 02 2015 19:05 Fidei86 wrote: I think you're probably town now, with the only reason being that I think scum Rels probably doesn't pick a fight with me, at least not this early. As you say, we have played a fair bit together, so I think you'd be wary of me. That's hardly a good reason, as it requires you having a high opinion of me. >> Rereading that, that's super wrong. That's exactly what I did to rayn in that resistance game you hosted, who is also a player with whom I've played a fair bit together. I think you're stretching to find reasons to townread me. ##Unvote ##Vote Fidei86 | ||
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On December 02 2015 19:40 Fidei86 wrote: Eh that's true. But you have done that in every game we've been in - gone at it with Rayn I mean. Even SOTW, where he ended up trusting you with the game. Rayn is easy to manipulate and you figured him out (hell, we laughed about it at length in the Mafia QT). Fun times (= soup hype! That's not true though. I didn't attack rayn in SOTW, excepting for 1 hour in D2 when he was pushing me hard. On December 02 2015 19:39 Fidei86 wrote: I've skimmed through the thread but there wasn't anything that jumped out. I just focussed in on your post because I always catch mentions of my name. I'm going to re-read at lunch. Sorry. Hyped for that. | ||
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On December 02 2015 19:47 Fidei86 wrote: The issue I have reading you really is that I've only seen you as Mafia for so long, everything you do reminds me of you being Mafia. It's going to be difficult to get your alignment straight. But obviously I also really like you OG, so I want to believe you're town. If you think I'm struggling with your alignment, that's why. You don't seem to be struggling for my alignment. You seem to have decided I am town and making up reasons for it. This is struggling for my alignment: On December 01 2015 09:31 Half the Sky wrote: Hey everyone. A few thoughts on my end before I head to bed - Nulls on Rels/Damdred regarding setup discussion/speculation as I feel those are types of posts that can be made as either alignment (and such Rels' scumreads on Do and Damdred could also fall under the same category) by players who know general gameplay well enough. | ||
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On December 02 2015 21:29 Fidei86 wrote: @Rels something has come up at work, so will be working through. On a train from about 6pm ET which will give me plenty of time. My hype for your reads is growing. | ||
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On December 02 2015 01:52 Trfel wrote: Here you go. I don't have time to dive into anything in depth, so I'm talking to the people who are here. LightningStrike, why didn't you respond to this post? I must say that pending an answer to the above question, I kind of think that LightningStrike is town. Can you expand ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 00:06 disformation wrote: I liked that DYH backed up his scum read on Trfel with a vote. I super do not like, that basically his only interaction with the thread was him answering my questions and then vanishing. I also super do not like that I have no idea what he means with less productive: Didn't he have enough time or was he just not able to reach a conclusion? Does that mean these four ppl are null reads? Why was he not able to reach a conclusion? A lot of questions... ++ I dislike that very much too. Especially since this post is 5 hours after his other posts in the series of posts he did yesterday. | ||
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On December 03 2015 02:26 Trfel wrote: It's one of those reads I don't know how to explain. I think I asked LightningStrike two very pointed questions, where there were a lot of answers he could have said that would be "wrong". And he answered both of them correctly. Not only that, but he had a really relaxed tone when doing so.Like here, when I asked him about his read on DoYouHas. I guess this doesn't objectively say much, but I like it anyway. The more important thing is that I feel that the way that LightningStrike's suspicion on me changed over the course of the game (mostly the early parts) has been really natural. He seemed genuinely frustrated, and I could see how that frustration led him to push me. The amount that he pushed me felt like more than scum would push, knowing that it's wrong and having no support, and it matched the words he was saying. I'm not extremely confident on LightningStrike being town, and it's hard to explain, but I don't want to lynch him. Yep got it. I kinda have this "innocent" feeling on his posts too. | ||
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On December 03 2015 02:32 kushm4sta wrote: I want to get dyh all liquored up then do unspeakable things to him. I don't see scum being so cavalier with this kind of mechanics thing. Kind of a weird read I know. I think I have time to read one more filter. I completely disagree with this. A post like that makes sense for scum!DYH: - there is a chance boxer claiming gives scum a avantage - he's buddying by agreeing with him on a setup consideration which is not very important | ||
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On December 03 2015 02:38 kushm4sta wrote: Just skimmed htf. Scumsville. Looks like she is coming up with fake arguments or talking about stuff that's not alignment indicative. Doubt tget people would be willing to lynch tho I could agree to this. HTS spending her time today posting the setup for her game instead of playing this one is contrary to what I would expect from her. | ||
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On December 03 2015 02:46 Trfel wrote: Rels: When you provided the list of games that DoYouHas has played... did you read his filter from the games, or look into the games in any way? Skimmed some before realizing I didn't know what I was looking for. I thought that his last scum game looked good to me, so I wonder how he got lynched; and he had a similar filter size in a scum game and a town game that ended in the same day. | ||
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On December 03 2015 02:54 disformation wrote: Hm... looking at Fidei86. That is not an easy one, I def. like the first ~ 1 1/2 pages of his filter up to the post from earlier today. You know that one: + Show Spoiler + On December 02 2015 19:05 Fidei86 wrote: Eh, I went to the cinema yesterday evening and then spent the rest of it catching up with friends. I have time at lunch time and will catch up. My old town meta, insofar as you think it was different, was before I totally fucked up the last Newbie game, which has really changed the way I view everything (and made me much less sure about myself). Obviously that read was super early on you Rels. I don't think the post you quoted necessarily disproves what I said though. Totally you were a lot more combative in your opening than I have seen previously - there is a difference between scum reading someone and calling someone out. The thing that concerns me about your play over the last day or so is that as scum you typically just nitpick/chase up nitpicks, and do so relentlessly. It's good scum play, as people can't say you're not contributing. I think you're probably town now, with the only reason being that I think scum Rels probably doesn't pick a fight with me, at least not this early. As you say, we have played a fair bit together, so I think you'd be wary of me. That's hardly a good reason, as it requires you having a high opinion of me. >> Not super sure what to make of it right now, since the earlier parts of his posts gave me a strong town vibe. Maybe too tunneled on Rels? What do you mean "tunneled on Rels" ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 03:10 Trfel wrote: I think that DoYouHas is a really awful lynch for today.First, assuming that if DoYouHas is scum, he is playing to survive and is not giving up. This isn't a post that scum would make. Scum would need to come up with an argument here, some sort of post or push on someone. The absolute worst thing for survival is to do nothing. But doing nothing is likely to come from town who can't conclusively find scum, especially if he is holding himself to only using strong reads, as he said earlier. Looking at DoYouHas' posts about 18 hours ago, I don't really think that those posts come from scum who is giving up. It's possible, but less likely I think. I had the opposite feeling. It reminded me of my feeling when playing scum; like I say to myself "OK I need to filter dive X and Y and make some analysis", then it's haaaaaard to do because it's hard to play scum, so sometimes I give up. I can see scum!DYH imagining "ok I need to filter dive those 4 players", reading quickly their filters, and giving up. | ||
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On December 03 2015 03:41 disformation wrote: The post I quoted is heavily focused on you specifically. OK I thought you meant it like "pushing Rels" | ||
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On December 03 2015 03:46 Trfel wrote: I guess I can sort of see your point, however I think it's really easy to take a filter and throw out a random conclusion. Also, disformation's post is really brilliant. I hadn't thought of this.If it's like you say, he would have just vanished instead of making that post. Five hours later is a long time, that's not a result of quickly skimming filters. It's possible that he is mafia here and gave up and then decided to make that post much later. It's just much, much more likely that he's town and really just ended up with no strong [scum] conclusions. Either way, I don't think he's a good lynch. Again, I feel the opposite. Why did he feel compelled to make a post before going to sleep, which had nothing in it ? As scum, to show he's done something, even if he couldn't make fake analysis. As town ... nothing. That's even a little contradictory to what he said in answer to Damdred's post, when he was opposed to everyone giving small reads. | ||
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On December 03 2015 03:50 Trfel wrote: Ugh, I need to actually get lunch, but here's my thing on MoosyDoosy really quick. When he checked his role PM, he said he was town, and he got really frustrated. Then three minutes later, he seemed quite happy. Throughout his filter, he seems really happy and there's no hint of frustration at all. This doesn't match. OK this is super good if this is true. I too have to AFK right now; but if you didn't do it when I come back, I will check that. | ||
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On December 03 2015 04:08 Fidei86 wrote: Town Shining - He was winning townie plaudits for his fight with Palmar, but rather than carry it on (and continuing to crap up the thread) he stopped (or at least tried to) and gave a good read post at #229. I like his read on dis, which I agree with. He asks Kush and Moosy to do more, at a stage where the better Mafia play would have been to ignore them and let town coalesce towards a "lynch all idiots" lynch. (Disclaimer: I previously called him out for not stopping the fight, but a re-read of his filter shows he was trying to stop it but Palmar wouldn't let it go.) Trfel - Rels is right, for someone with over 3k posts Trfel sure apologises a lot. He seems to have some sort of reason for his early LS read, which I don't really care about. I actually like is read on Rels "why is he just throwing shit everywhere." Maybe town side of null. His later posts show quite nuanced reasoning. Moved to town for now, otherwise mostly everyone would be null Dis - he and Trfel are playing similarly in my view. Both reading the thread, giving thoughts relatively fearlessly. Nothing that particularly jumps out as scummy. Lean read. Null Damdred - underwhelmed by his reads, which seem to mostly have been of Shining. Need to filter dive. No sense in lynching today. Damdred - whole filter is super underwhelming. Says he has town reads, but then just gives me and Shining without and further explanation. Lacklustre but posts come off as condescending. Scum side of null but wouldn't lynch yet. HTS - I am scared of a Mafia Dani, and that is probably colouring my read of her. One thing I'm not sure of is why she voted for DYH having just excoriated kush for his dumbass post about voting for Rels. Palmar - his entire first act was fighting with Shining. He made his point, and I agreed with it. But he kept pushing and pushing beyond when it was reasonable. I also didn't like that he called my first post "fine" and "null" but at another point said I was a "tow read". Says he doesn't want to lynch into me, then later says I'd be an okay lynch? Huh? I had him in Mafia, but his last few reads on Damdred and Rels - I'm all over the place on Rels. I've made the point that Mafia Rels tends to buddy harder than he is here. But in this game he seems to be talking in complete parallel to the thread, raising points others aren't but not engaging in the same sort of manner I would expect from a town Rels. But I actually really like his DYH read and vote. Mafia LS - his entry list was all nulls ("I need more time on Moosy" -- no shit!) and basic basic points that display no particular thought. #431 says the game is hard but hasn't really given a read on anyone? O Useless Kush - he is going to have to do a lot to get back from "not changing my Rels vote even though he might be town because changing votes is hard" Moosy - only sensible post is pushing Shining on his read of me. When he'd explained it like 8 times and I'd only made one post. DYH - Lots of town-reads and afk promises. Hardly encouraging. Was not really a fan of his Trfel read. Onegu. It's O-word dude. Hands up if you're surprised. OK I like that post. Especially the double Damdred =D Some stuff, sry if you already answered in the pages I haven't read: - what do you think of kush's most recent posts ? - why vote a useless instead of your "mafia" ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote: I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. My god. I can't rebute an accusation that finishes by "if Rels is town doing that, then he's super good". I didn't plan to post anything than "yo all good night" when Damdred posted about boxer. On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote: Side note, I remember that Half the Sky mentioned that she'd only played with kushm4sta before in Carol of the Bells. Which is wrong, since we all played in I believe Student Mafia IV (one of the Student Mafia games, before the Newbie Student mafias), and kushm4sta was in that game and actually sort of played. He was mafia, so I'm surprised that Half the Sky forgot that. But I just remembered that kushm4sta actually was in Carol of the Bells. If you have any doubt that kushm4sta is capable of playing this lazily as town, look at his play from Carol of the Bells. He had (arguably) the most important town power role in the game. A mafia player baited the role to claim, and the entire thread yelled at how stupid that request was. Didn't matter, kushm4sta didn't care and just claimed his role and died. In retrospect, it was pretty darn hilarious, but at the time it was infuriating. What did she say exactly ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 06:02 disformation wrote: Hmm... was skimming through the rest of Rels filter. Looked pretty good to me. On December 03 2015 06:17 Half the Sky wrote: Not sure I like or agree with this post. I might be biased here because I've cohosted two games now with Rels, both of which are themed and both of which require him to know his mechanics in depth. I concluded this post alone was NAI because anyone skilled enough or knowledgeable enough about setup spec can speak to their opinions about what certain roles should and should not do. My opinion based on what I read in the OP/day post was that scum can narrow down the setup as they know their own roles so Rels' post is reasonable based on the fact that if the boxer claims, they can further narrow down the setup. The part about 100% sure on the setup is completely false, based on his saying "there are two possible setups....etc" no they don't know for sure but like I said before they can narrow it down based on how BH (and clearly you know from what you've posted?) assigns the roles in his games in the mafia QT, and that would appear to be Rels argument. I don't know where you are getting "took extra time" (I'm seeing a 10 minute gap between Damdred's and Rels response and from what I'm reading of the thread/their filters, for both players it is their first appearances in the thread, 23:27 and 23:37 respectively) or how you'd know he would have posted that otherwise unless I'm reading that sentence wrong. What I'm trying to say is it appears to me that you are reaching here especially since as Rels hadn't posted yet in the thread so I don't know how you can even assume that. It seems like a few assumptions "if he was around" etc. but even if you are making the argument that 10 minutes is too long for him to construct his post, that's still a poor assumption because when you look at his filter that 23:37 post is the first post he makes in the game. You don't know if he arrives at 23:35, sees that and just churns it out which makes the "completely explained and correct" part a reach on your end as well. OK I feel HTS and disfo have no reason as scum to push suspicions off me. | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:01 Damdred wrote: Let me juts simply state why LS is scum so people will go yep sheep the damdred. 1) Little to no reads 2) No scum hunting 3) Not really involved in the thread as it goes forward, really side lined 4) Has no scum reads at all even states as much 5) His trfel progression is very strange Good lynch indeed Yep this is true. Especially the no scum reads at all, since I showed him his Trfel read didn't make sense. When I asked him for a team, he said he wanted to evaluate kush and Onegu. | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:07 Palmar wrote: I'm going to watch tv for half an hour or so. I think I'm just gonna roll with Damdred. I have no good reason to call LS town so fuck it. Where is the "I'm proud of my D1 skills" ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:14 LightningStrike wrote: Okay DAMDRED IS A FUCKING IDIOT WHY FORGOT TO READ I ME BEEN BUT HE READ ME CORRECTLY ALL BUT THE TIME HE BEEN MAFIA............. Dropping my vote on MD IDK HOME BUT I VT I DON'T TO DIE NOW. ##Vote:MooseyDoosey OK rsoultin read time: angry LS is town LS. | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:29 kushm4sta wrote: I think the LS lynch is good. I looked over his filter again. His arguments are always"so and so was like that in that game, and he's similar/different in this game, therefore he's town/scum" That's an overreliance on bad meta. Those are very easy arguments for scum to make. On December 03 2015 07:30 kushm4sta wrote: LS please claim IMO. LS claimed already. | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:45 The Shining wrote: Someone said that about me in Drams and I was scum. I don't like these angry tone reads. Yep. But rsoultin said something like "if LS is playing like that he is a different person" in Himalayas. | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:01 DoYouHas wrote: Catching up now. I can't see any scum motivation behind Trfel's hard defending of me. It doesn't even look like positioning for my flip is even really a possibility here. I was going after him, voted him, thread sentiment is against me. I'm an easy EASY person for scum trfel to keep the heat on. That he ran the other direction when there is no reason to as mafia is major town points in my book. Unvoting. On December 03 2015 07:36 DoYouHas wrote: Welp, if you don't have good scumreads, sheep the wagon of your townreads. ##Vote: LS Kill that guy. ##Unvote ##Vote DoYouHas | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:50 The Shining wrote: With the amount of voting reminders I've received, it wouldn't shock me if both MD and Onegu were modkilled. But that doesn't help us figure out the lynch here. I will say if either one ninjas in a vote before EoD and doesn't post anything, its going to look really bad. I know for a fact that Onegu's absence is NAI. ++ on Moosy. Can you read DYH's filter ? It is super short. | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:51 Palmar wrote: I know this?? That's exactly why, I know that currently I don't have a lot of good ideas, and damdred's idea looks like a decent one so I'm just gonna roll with that. You said "DYH is a good lynch". DYH made two posts since: On December 03 2015 07:01 DoYouHas wrote: Catching up now. I can't see any scum motivation behind Trfel's hard defending of me. It doesn't even look like positioning for my flip is even really a possibility here. I was going after him, voted him, thread sentiment is against me. I'm an easy EASY person for scum trfel to keep the heat on. That he ran the other direction when there is no reason to as mafia is major town points in my book. Unvoting. On December 03 2015 07:36 DoYouHas wrote: Welp, if you don't have good scumreads, sheep the wagon of your townreads. ##Vote: LS Thoughts ?? | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:54 Fidei86 wrote: Wasn't kush on md as well? Yes. | ||
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On December 03 2015 07:56 DoYouHas wrote: What do you want from me Rels? I don't have good scumreads after dropping trfel. I sheep the wagon of 3 of my townreads in Damdred, disfo, and Palmar. It is what it is. I also don't like how you sheeped and shut up but posted when being attacked | ||
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On December 03 2015 08:06 LightningStrike wrote: Okay this narrows down the setups to two of that have Boxers. no | ||
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On December 01 2015 08:04 Blazinghand wrote: | ||
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On December 03 2015 08:08 Damdred wrote: LS has basically mod confirmed himself as town. That's pretty shitty but we have to work with it I guess. Yep. | ||
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fidei says something about kush and everybody switches. fuck that I should have yelled | ||
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So ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 08:18 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm also looking at rels' thing so maybe I'm being biased What thing ? I think LS is conf town. | ||
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I think you're town BTW. | ||
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On December 03 2015 08:22 LightningStrike wrote: Good night Rels. When you come back give thoughts about the game after you went to sleep please? (= | ||
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On December 03 2015 08:51 Trfel wrote: Does anyone actually enjoy playing with me any more? Because if not, there's really no reason for me to play. I'd rather not waste my time trying to reread all of that End of Day stuff. LOL WTF bro you're like the main moving force this game. Relax, I enjoy playing with you. | ||
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On December 03 2015 09:46 Trfel wrote: Rels: When did you see Damdred's post about the game setup? As in, how long did you spend writing your first post? And, had you read/analyzed the game setup before you read Damdred's post? Off for a while. I don't know. I don't know. Reading and thinking about the setup was the first thing I did when BH posted the day post. | ||
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On December 03 2015 10:57 NocturneMage wrote: yo, at work, on mobile, finishing work late tonight, need to go to bed right after though and I have seminars all damn day tomorrow. I've not read dick all or followed the game for d1 quite yet, but I'm VT and I'm ready to fuck up some dirty dirty scummers. reading from end of cycle, I'm pretty suspicious of trfel again (I say again because he was scum the last game) but that's mainly because of how he played last game. of course he'd push moosydoosy, he's unreadable as fuck as either alignment. same desperation emotions when no one is listening to him. unless he does this as town. cool story bro, try harder because I'm not scum. Wow. I'm not used to that tone coming from NM. Seems way more casual than the usual analytical tone. | ||
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On December 03 2015 11:08 NocturneMage wrote: hts is a sleazeball as mafia, I love her to death, but I'll pretty much know immediately if she's mafia because I obviously know her in real life and if she's out of bounds with her personality, she is almost certainly mafia. obviously if I think she's mafia, I will case her in a way that doesn't require you to know her in real life. unless her dota friends want to argue they have some feels on her from external behaviour. rels, fidei? I'm looking at you two. although seeing doyouhas' post, if hts got someone lynched who was scumreading her, that is a major red flag in my book. that is routine mafia play for her. dani as mafia will absolutely push the lynches of the people who want her dead. so dyh, what was her role in the lynch? She has posted quite a bit already. Do you have a read on her ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 14:24 Trfel wrote: Here's a quote making Damdred's reasons to scumread LightningStrike a little more clear. In this quote, Damdred seems to describe the biggest part of his LightningStrike scumread being that LightningStrike has zero scum reads, which is exactly what he said not to do in a previous game as town. This is really incriminating. And this is in continuation of Damdred not scumreading people for logical reasons, when he usually is the guy who stops pushes when they are not based on logical reasons. First it was the scumread on you based on something illogcal; now this. | ||
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On December 03 2015 15:45 Trfel wrote: I'm really confident on NocturneMage being mafia, and I think that Damdred is also decently likely to be mafia. Feels like Rels may mafia, though I haven't looked at Rels yet and some of his stuff seems really towny. Though, I just remembered his reaction to my case on MoosyDoosy and then he completely forgot about it. If he was really that excited about it (as he seemed to be), he completely dropped it. I can see it from town, but it's a bit suspicious. Furthermore, there's some really stupid unflipped association, but even when I'm really confident unflipped association is still unflipped association True. I didn't post it, but I thought it was actually NAI due to this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/494452-student-mafia-xv In that game, Moosy just stopped doing anything in D2 and let town lynch him, even taunting us in the process. | ||
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1. Agreeing to a setup idea that is benefit to scum; without being the first to propose it Talking about this post: On December 01 2015 08:27 Damdred wrote: Firstly for the roles, nobody should talk about this besides an opinion going forward, if you are a named towny you should claim asap, it narrows down the pool that we lynch from and also gives us more to work with. however if you are the Vet do not claim unless absolutely necessary. If you are shot claim if you aren't shut the hell up. After you use your power claim straight away your findings if you are one shot obviously do not pussy foot away and give mafia the ability to cause town to second guess you. As such thank you for your time in reading this. On December 01 2015 08:32 DoYouHas wrote: I second the immediate claim by a boxer if we have one. boxer claiming is (was =X ) bad for town 50% of the time, so this post pushes a scum advantage. Furthermore, he's agreeing with Damdred on that, not taking responsability for the idea. 2. His Trfel's read makes no sense Already explained here: On December 01 2015 22:22 Rels wrote: I don't like that progression from DoYouHas. "Trfel you might be scum." 2 posts later: Damdred: "Trfel is most likely town." 1 post later: "Trfel you're crazy." So Trfel is considered town here. It doesn't add up. ##Vote DoYouHas 3. A total apathy towards the lynch Here are the two posts DYH made after coming back to EOD: On December 03 2015 07:01 DoYouHas wrote: Catching up now. I can't see any scum motivation behind Trfel's hard defending of me. It doesn't even look like positioning for my flip is even really a possibility here. I was going after him, voted him, thread sentiment is against me. I'm an easy EASY person for scum trfel to keep the heat on. That he ran the other direction when there is no reason to as mafia is major town points in my book. Unvoting. On December 03 2015 07:36 DoYouHas wrote: Welp, if you don't have good scumreads, sheep the wagon of your townreads. ##Vote: LS On December 03 2015 07:56 DoYouHas wrote: What do you want from me Rels? I don't have good scumreads after dropping trfel. I sheep the wagon of 3 of my townreads in Damdred, disfo, and Palmar. It is what it is. DYH just didn't care about the lynch. The third post was only made after I tried to get people to vote him. Furthermore, disfo bought a really good point about sheeping his "townreads": On December 03 2015 08:15 disformation wrote: Wanted to switch to DYH, but decided to go into his filter and make a post... I kinda want to restate that post, because I think he would be a good lynch so: His reason for voting LS: Last mention of me in his filter: So I am kinda asking myself where he got that magical TR on me from... Taking a break now. Conclusion If we have a vig, you know who to shoot. | ||
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I don't have a strong scumread on Palmar. There is no slip to be found in his filter. But I know Palmar is a strong scum player, so it's super unlikely to find a slip in there. Here is why I'm suspicious of him: 1. His reads followed the thread sentiment D1 D1, Palmar started by tunneling Shining on something true but small. This is NAI. But after that, Palmar's posts about people were boring. Just boring. Examples: On December 02 2015 05:04 Palmar wrote: So I misread DYH and his post is not as atrocious as I thought it was while phonereading today. Still bad, still a good default lynch. I'm not actually putting a ton of effort into this game but I don't want to lynch into this list: Trfel, Fidei, HTS, disformation. Maybe Rels belongs there too. This is in no way a "these people are town" list, just a "I have seen something that makes me not want to lynch them right now". Damdred is being a bit weird but I'm not gonna call him mafia yet. Also, Kush and Onegu are useless baddies who will be useless throughout the game. Flipping a coin and lynching one of them is a good play OK to lynch the guy with the most votes ATM. All active players are given a pass for today. OK to lynch on of the two uesless. On December 02 2015 06:11 Palmar wrote: This is a shitty read, but it might actually be brilliant. Shining said he'd leave yesterday when arguing with me, yet he kept coming back to the thread. If he is mafia he has already realized I'm an obnoxious bastard who pushes shit without mercy. He created an excuse for himself to leave the thread and then didn't use it. That drive to make me understand that I'm being dumb as shit is actually kinda townie. When I think about it I definitely don't want to lynch Shining today. On December 02 2015 06:20 Palmar wrote: Does anyone know how to make moosy not be terrible? On December 03 2015 01:13 Palmar wrote: Also, I'm warming up to the idea of lynching Fidei, he kinda deserves it. On December 03 2015 04:09 Palmar wrote: I like how you didn't even finish your sentence on me. Nevertheless, I'm going to vote moosy. Trfel's idea prompted me to read his filter. His filter is absolute trash. On December 03 2015 04:10 Palmar wrote: It's seriously demotivating to have so many deadweight players who don't play to win this game (kush, moosy, onegu). On December 03 2015 04:13 Palmar wrote: Also the reason I might lynch you james is because you sound like a fucking machine all the time. On December 03 2015 04:15 Palmar wrote: Kush didn't do anything, he just said a bunch of words that might as well have been generated in a random read generator. All of this is boring with minimal scumhunt. And this culminates in ... 2. Palmar was apathetic towards the lynch; when he is proud of his D1 capacities Palmar is proud of his D1 reads: On December 01 2015 09:53 Palmar wrote: Don't lie to town though, talking to me is a great way to getting us somewhere, I am actually pretty reasonable and I take pride in my day 1 play, so if you actually do the thing where you don't look like mafia I'm not going to want to kill you. However at the moment you have such massive holes in your story that I can't ignore it. But after stopping his Shining push, his reads were boring. At EOD, he was super apathetic and sheeped Trfel into Moosy, then Damdred into LS, then followed the thread sentiment to kush: On December 03 2015 04:09 Palmar wrote: I like how you didn't even finish your sentence on me. Nevertheless, I'm going to vote moosy. Trfel's idea prompted me to read his filter. His filter is absolute trash. On December 03 2015 07:51 Palmar wrote: I know this?? That's exactly why, I know that currently I don't have a lot of good ideas, and damdred's idea looks like a decent one so I'm just gonna roll with that. He also left the thread 1 hour before deadline to come back 10 minutes for it for no good reason, when it always is the crucial moment to decide a good lynch: On December 03 2015 07:07 Palmar wrote: I'm going to watch tv for half an hour or so. I think I'm just gonna roll with Damdred. I have no good reason to call LS town so fuck it. Conclusion Good cop check / vig shot. | ||
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DYH, NM, Palmar. I wouldn't vig Damdred, but I would cop check him since he cannot be GF if a cop is in the setup. | ||
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Shining fidei HTS disfo Trfel LS | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:08 Palmar wrote: Cop check, sure, it's a waste of a check on someone whose alignment is obvious, but sure. Vigi shot, I will be seriously mad. Here's the thing, go back to just about every game I play. I should NEVER EVER be vigged. The reason is I am extremely unlikely to be a wildcard. I will always respond to pressure and always play the game. Using a vigilante shot on a player who is all but guaranteed to be active and willing to engage when pressured is a waste of a shot. It's literally the most wrong way to use a vigi shot. Vigis should focus on killing people who are inactive/not playing/not contributing. I am more than slightly mad at you for suggesting this, it makes you a bad player to even think this is the correct thing to do. Why are you obvious town ? Has your read of DYH evolved beyond "meh he's useless like others" ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:15 Palmar wrote: @Rels, I agree with you on Shining and I agree with you on LS. I have repeatedly found disformation's posts to be very unforced and easy to follow so I'll accept your town read on him. HTS/fidei/Trfel, can you give me something to convince me to believe they're all town? fidei: I had almost the exact same reads as him when he posted his big post. Especially, I was null on the same persons for kinda the same reasons, which I have an hard time imagining fidei faking. HTS: despite being in catch up mode for almost all EOD, she was tryhard during it. She had no reason to defend me against Trfel's accusation when I was not up for lynch as scum. Finally, these posts convinced me: On December 03 2015 07:44 Half the Sky wrote: Thing is, I don't recall LS being under pressure in that game so that still gives me pause. Fuck it I'm going back to Witchcraft 3, I didn't see that game (scum LS) whether he was emotional. If he was emotional in even one scum game, then the meta can be considered broken IDK. On December 03 2015 07:52 Half the Sky wrote: Final four posts in mafia LS Witchcraft 3 filter. He's not emotional and not as emotional compared to here though he says he's saving himself but saving self is always NAI. I hate that he isn't talking to us and I hate he isn't suggesting an alternate lynch but gut call says current lynch is a bad lynch. Trfel: he's suspecting a wide array of people for different and logical reasons each time. I have the impression he is suspicious of a lot of people and is super unsure of himself, which is how I picture town!Trfel. I also have a hard time imaging scum!Trfel apologizing for his "toxic" behaviour. | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:19 Palmar wrote: And my alignment is obvious because I just don't play this way as mafia. Even if it isn't obvious to you right now, just try to lynch me later in the game and it will become. If you haven't played much with me before: I do not like being lynched, I will generally put a lot of effort into not being lynched because I consider whoever gets lynched to be the worst player in the game. This means that I am usually very, very active in defending myself when people want to lynch me. I should never, ever be vigi shot, it is objectively a bad play. What way do you play as mafia then ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:16 LightningStrike wrote: Good morning I just woke up. Honestly I think he's playing like he did in metal min or very similar esp the way he was posting towards Shining during early Day 1. Here his fitler from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/473002-metal-mini-mafia?user=Palmar I don't really care about The Shining push, as it's super easy to reproduce that as scum (tunneling someone on something specific). Not that it makes scum either. 1 - Were his reads boring in that game too ? 2 - Was he apathetic and not really caring of the lynches ? | ||
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On December 18 2014 08:01 LightningStrike wrote: Night 1 didn't happen yet so you can't know his alignment even if you really are cop. =D=D=D | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:16 LightningStrike wrote: Good morning I just woke up. Honestly I think he's playing like he did in metal min or very similar esp the way he was posting towards Shining during early Day 1. Here his fitler from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/473002-metal-mini-mafia?user=Palmar I see Palmar being invested in a marv lynch in that game. ++ boring read On the other hand, I also see him not being there for hours before deadline. -- apathetic behaviour I don't think you can use that game to have a metaread on Palmar. I also have the confirmation Palmar dislikes meta: So he's probably not going to get caught on "playing his scum meta". | ||
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++ boring read => so him having boring read in this game is scum points. -- apathetic behaviour => so him being absent around deadline is not scum points. From the POV of LS' meta read. | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:43 LightningStrike wrote: 1.a little bit esp his coag read just because he hates coag.(he didn't really give a real read on coag as far I remember from rereading his filter in that game) 2. If he thinks someone is mafia he does try to lynch them but he didn't outside of me until kush made that comment about why he(kush) wanted to lynch me. Have you ever played / obsed scum!Palmar ? What is different from what you just said ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:51 LightningStrike wrote: Yes I have two times. first time around he tried hard Day 1 even thoguh it was in the weekend(He doesn't like playing on the weekend as town) and wass somewhat useless that entire esp just calling me a wizard for his read on me(Titanic I had a cunning plan). The 2nd game he was useless and he didn't try to do jack shit the entire game(Assassination). Alright. I obsed a game where he was scum with marv and whoever and he was far from useless. Talking about this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/494010-completely-normal-generic-mini-mafia?user=Palmar So I don't think this meta read means anything. I usually don't like meta read; applied to a good scum player, they are difficult to make, 'cause of course he is going to play like his town meta. | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:54 Trfel wrote: Rels, I think that Palmar's hard push early on and then having no strong opinions at End of Day is very possible for him as town. His activity/investment level is really strange like that. Here is a link to Palmar's filter from Gaiden 2 (town). He opened the game with a very strong push against (town) justanothertownie, which is similar to his push against The Shining this game. I'm pretty sure that his play died off really heavily after this push, he was nearly lynched Day 2. I think that making a push like Palmar makes isn't necessarily hard as scum, but the way that Palmar does it is much hard to replicate as scum than a normal push. I've never seen Palmar push something aggressively Day 1 like that as mafia, so it's possible that he is mafia, however I feel he's probably town. Also, for the record, I think I've thought of most of the things that Rels said about DoYouHas already and still kind of think that he's town. OK I obsed that game and I remember Palmar going crazy on JAT. I went to EOD on his filter and he's just sheeping. So meta points to town. I don't agree with "the way that Palmar does it is much hard to replicate as scum than a normal push". He just pointed out something illogical and continually attacked Shining on stuff that didn't make sense. On the contrary, I think it's easy to fake. And he did say something weird about fidei during that push: on one hand "free townread in the process", on the other hand "I said fidei's post was fine, not that fidei is town". | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:59 LightningStrike wrote: I will check that game out as I didn't obsed it. OK. I got that you're a meta using player, but be careful with good scum players - they will replicate their town meta. If I had to chose, I would prefer having your take on this: On December 03 2015 12:52 Trfel wrote: Like, here's something that's really been bugging me. This is Damdred's scumread of LightningStrike this game, that started the whole LightningStrike wagon. Now, look at Newbie Student Mafia VIII (for reference, Damdred, LightningStrike, and I (Trfel) were all town. At one point in this game, I scumread LightningStrike for actually having no scumreads. Here's the quote:Read the arguments in this quote, and compare them to what Damdred said about LightningStrike this game. Damdred accuses LightningStrike of not having a strong presence, only one scum reads, no pushes, just existing. In Newbie Student Mafia VIII (quote above), I accused LightningStrike of having no scum reads, and just asking questions, not pressuring anyone, and not doing anything to change the thread activity. These are very similar reads. Here is Damdred's response to my case from Newbie Student Mafia VIII:Dismissing this case by saying "that's not how you read LightningStrike" seems to be extremely contradictory to Damdred bringing up the same case in this game. I realize that Damdred focused on the "big list post with no scum reads" part, but the conclusions that I was making from LightningStrike's filter (largely the post... read the filter from that game for yourself and you see that this post was one of the few things of substance in his filter) and the conclusions that Damdred made about LightningStrike this game are very very similar. In this game, Damdred tries to show that LightningStrike is mafia because his only real scum read, on me (Trfel), he backed off of (implying that no scum reads = mafia), which is how he says not to read LightningStrike above. Am I missing something? Damdred, explanation please? | ||
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On December 03 2015 23:03 Rels wrote: OK I obsed that game and I remember Palmar going crazy on JAT. I went to EOD on his filter and he's just sheeping. So meta points to town. I don't agree with "the way that Palmar does it is much hard to replicate as scum than a normal push". He just pointed out something illogical and continually attacked Shining on stuff that didn't make sense. On the contrary, I think it's easy to fake. And he did say something weird about fidei during that push: on one hand "free townread in the process", on the other hand "I said fidei's post was fine, not that fidei is town". Talking about these: On December 01 2015 09:17 Palmar wrote: Fidei calling you out on something you actually did doesn't make him mafia. If you're town you should be considering, and possibly favoring, the option that he's just a townie with a wrong scumlean. Nothing he said was false. He literally took true information and made a lean on it. That's the most null thing you can do in mafia. I hadn't even read Fidei's post, I just came into the game, read the first page, then posted "Shining is 100% scum", turns out I mostly agree with Fidei, so free townread in the process! On December 01 2015 09:21 Palmar wrote: You gonna play hardball? Okay, we can play hardball. I read the first page, and your posts stood out like a sore thumb. It was very, very obvious you had no intention of actually moving discussion along. You posted for the sake of posting. I didn't expect you to come up with reads, I just expected you to say something that wasn't so clearly just to post. If you were actually genuinely interested in the youtube video thing you talked about you'd have said something more about it. I didn't say it was particularly good, I said it was fine. He made some statements, threw out some reads and did it in a sort of casual manner. He didn't force out any opinions that he clearly doesn't have (like you're doing with him and me at the moment). It was just a fine opening post that gives no reason to call him mafia. On December 01 2015 09:35 Palmar wrote: I'm not fucking defending Fidei you moron, I'm just calling his post fine. In a normal game mafia players make hundreds of "fine" posts. No one is dumb enough to give himself away with every post. What I am doing is questioning your logic in suspecting Fidei, and trying to see if you could possibly believe what you're saying. So far I don't really see it. I've read Fidei's post 5 times now and I just don't understand how saying true shit about you makes him mafia. It's such a leap. | ||
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On December 03 2015 23:19 Trfel wrote: Meh, fine. I'm a bit more suspicious of Palmar than I let on, and that thing about Fidei86 feels off. Palmar, explain? But Rels... Before you did anything, Palmar (if town) was always getting shot here. IMO you should have waited until EON to post this, it would have made life much easier if Palmar is town, which he still probably is IMO. LOL Palmar you owe me your life if you're town. | ||
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On December 03 2015 15:45 Trfel wrote: First, I didn't read all of Half the Sky's filter, but when I was reading through the thread I didn't think that her play around End of Day was anywhere near as bad as DoYouHas describes. Her read progression on LightningStrike there feels really natural and I actually like it a lot. I'd say that 8 minutes until End of Day is the point where I'd really expect her to start looking for another wagon, and although she doesn't do so, 8 minutes isn't a lot of time and she's sick. I'm guessing that a lot of that time was spent reading the thread trying to figure out what's happening, as the post rate was quite high at the time. I have not looked at the general trends in Half the Sky's filter recently, however when I last looked I didn't see too much wrong that couldn't be easily explained by the cold. And like I said, Half the Sky's read progression on LightningStrike felt towny to me. Can you update your HTS read when you have time to finish her filter ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 23:33 Trfel wrote: I don't really care about Half the Sky because I'm pretty confident that she's town? And the cold/sickness/whatever makes it really hard for me to scumread her? I think it makes more sense that she is town Half the Sky with her play slightly weakened by the cold than she is mafia and has shown the same desire to solve the game and direction that I would expect as town. I'm pretty upset right now, just missed a meeting that I had to wait 3 weeks for because I'm an idiot. Going to use that to bury NocturneMage. I don't understand why you are townreading DYH. I disagree with the one reason you gave (the "I filter dove 4 people and got nothing" post). Since then he has made 3 posts around deadline, in which there is one weird thing (the disfo = town read), one sheep vote and one defense when attacked, all in an attitude of "I don't care about this lynch"; and a push on a townread of yours. | ||
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On December 04 2015 00:08 disformation wrote: HtS From the top of my head I feel like there is a certain lack on follow ups. I also remembered playing with town!HtS in my first game (NSM9), where she was interrogating me inquisiton style EoD1 and D2 to get some conclusions from me. That kind of fire is a bit missing here I feel. So her coming back to follow up on the promised re-reads of people and throwing out some reads, would be great. That's true. But I felt that her tryhardness + defense of LS at EOD was super townie. It made me think of a comment NM made in the obs QT of resistance: "HTS is obvious town 'cause she's stuck in a airport on a phone, and she's still trying to come up with the best team instead of being super passive." HTS being there at deadline and checking LS' meta despite her being sick made me think of that. | ||
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On December 03 2015 08:07 MoosyDoosy wrote: looool gg i guess? gl Nocturne and YES YOU'RE IN A GAME WITH HTS Man I dislike Moosy for posting when he has already been replaced, but I have the same FUCKING FEELING. The same feeling when I learned there was a fucking movie with both De Niro and Al Pacino. CANT WAIT | ||
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On December 04 2015 02:51 Trfel wrote: Rels, when you said that Student Mafia XV was MoosyDoosy's worst game, did you mean Student Mafia XVI? MoosyDoosy wasn't lynched in Student Mafia XV, that game ended after the Day 1 lynch on Stoicism_. Yep. | ||
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On December 04 2015 05:06 disformation wrote: Dude, chill. The case is long and hard (to read). Am also a bit lightheaded. @Part1: You remember that MoosyDoosy actually did post a few town looking posts D1 in NSM17? Which made it a lot easier for geript to read MoosyDoosy. But I don't think he was the only one to realize that, I remember more ppl were getting unsure/dropping the vote after that. geript was a total baller and had incredible reads that game though. So yeah, MoosyDoosy is readable, but it depends a bit on what he actually does. This game I don't remember any posts from him that aren't "lol wtf banana boat, I am a coinflip, yo". @Part2: I can agree to this. @Part3: Okay, Ver's reads sound pretty good... but I am not sure what you want to say with this? Can you summarize the important points and apply them to MoosyDoosy/NM? @Part4: Well, that is Part2 with the relevant quotes added. No wait there is a bit more stuff added. Well, yeah these posts aren't the epitome of town and could easily come from scum. Still feel coinflippy about that though. But yeah the town suggests he is having great fun. Ah yes his comment on me is pretty strange. In NSM17 he was pushing me kinda hard and decided I was even more scummy for defending myself (we were both town). So no idea what he was trying to say... @Part5: This one is interesting. I might have to check those games myself, if I get some time. @Part6: Yes, NocturneMages entry had some odd stuff on it. Actually upon rereading I agree with your post here: + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2015 12:25 Trfel wrote: This post is extremely scummy. Makes me more convinced that I'm right. NocturneMage didn't acknowledge any of the differences between my play this game and last game, which is drastic in the way that I pushed my reads and the method of the reads themselves. NocturneMage also scumreads me for pushing MoosyDoosy, and I have no clue why that's suspicious to him when he just saw me push the strongest players in the game as mafia last game, so he knows that I don't resort to "easy targets" as mafia... The extremely dismissive tone without having read the thread is very uncharacteristic. Last game as town, NocturneMage was very reasonable and methodical, and people said that he was much more aggressive tonally as mafia. The tone used here would perhaps be justified if he had actually read the thread or had actual reasons. I thought of some new ways to try to explain/evaluate my MoosyDoosy read, I'll give that a try after I catch up with some stuff. Have you looked at NocturneMage's scum game in NSM13? Scum lean? Sure, but the 99% is a bit excessive imo. I think the slot is more likely to be scum now, but I am not sure I agree on the 99% slamdunk mafia. MD still feels a bit coinflippy and while the NM posts don't match his town game in NSM17 they don't fit the scum game in NSM13 either... on the other hand his game wasn't really strong NSM13... maybe I should look at NSM13 again, too. But I am still quite confident that NM will be a lot easier to read D2. OK I'm convinced. I liked the part about his play on Newbie XVI. It's true that it is actually extremely different. | ||
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On December 04 2015 06:04 Damdred wrote: Its pretty obvious no matter what I say that your conclusion I'm mafia gor bad reasons are going to stick. And you really haven't moosey hasn't done anything this game and is 100% a coin flip, nm will be more readable. But your case is founded on bad meta basically. Can you answer his post about your read on LS ? | ||
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On December 04 2015 06:09 Damdred wrote: My axum read is in my filter, if it was so bad at the time why did people hop on? if the only reason that I posted was ls had no scum reads I could understand it but that's a gross misrepresentation of the points against ls. Also lol to me and moosey on a team together, damdred the scum partner who will get himself scum read to save his team mates. That's the reputation I have boys Man I really hope we have a cop and he checks you. | ||
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On December 04 2015 03:27 Palmar wrote: I actually like Rels right now Can you answer this ? | ||
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On December 04 2015 07:31 Damdred wrote: Kinda silly saying I've been malicious when I've been pretty nice this game. Kinda more robotic than nice /rsoultin | ||
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On December 04 2015 08:01 Blazinghand wrote: Damdred the Tournament Attendee has been shot! WTF It doesn't make sense. Gotta go lunch, will think about it 'cause it bothering me very much. | ||
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Now I'm catching up the 10 pages I didn't read. | ||
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On December 04 2015 08:12 NocturneMage wrote: ##vote Half the Sky I am also pretty sure Fidei is mafia because he is playing nothing like his previous games, but I am so confident in Dani being mafia I am willing to get mislynched to prove my point. This is part meta, part (anti-)personality, part voting analysis (her end of cycle behaviour was really bad), and part psychological (motive-based). I'll try and put together a case as best as I can though so that you can understand it. Well, that simplifies the day. One of NM and HTS is mafia; maybe both (but unlikely). Cool stuff (= | ||
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On December 04 2015 08:47 Fidei86 wrote: I actually think an LS Dani team makes a hell of a lot of sense here. LS has given us no reason post lynch to think he's anything other than town (deadline thing is terrible). Dani is in the thread desperately trying to open the door to his non-lynch, for no apparent reason, and despite the fact SHE IS VOTING FOR HIM. The deadline thing is great. LS is almost confirmed town. | ||
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Good to see you posting (= | ||
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On December 04 2015 08:51 The Shining wrote: Your last scum game, you scummed, cased and shot Geript N1. This game you scummed, cased Damdred N1 and now he's NKd. This is such am obvious similarity that I'm almost inclined to think it's too bad to be scummy but this explanation is a bit long and contradictory, too. The NM not wanting to shoot Damdred logic is flawed. Especially if he had him as a townread, I'll have to go back to that. I personally as scum have shot Damdred before after he townread me to keep that read immortal, and I know others have NKd people that were TRing them before they had time to revisit that read. You also think that Damdred has an extremely good read on me, and towned me, so I'd kill him for it? This is a contradiction because you say its exactly why NM WOULDNT kill him for it. Are you saying I'm scum and scared he'd flip his read on me so I shot him before he could? Then why does that same situation make me scum but makes NM town? Yes! Yes yes yes. On December 04 2015 08:43 Trfel wrote: Thus, the only really noteworthy read in Damdred's filter is his not wanting to lynch NocturneMage (not exactly sure if it was a townread or a not wanting to lynch read, but it's the same for this purpose). If NocturneMage is mafia, there's no way he shoots Damdred here. [...] The Shining is included in that group partially because Damdred has an extremely good read on The Shining, and so despite Damdred townreading The Shining for now, I can see The Shining as mafia wanting to get rid of Damdred. This is contradictory. Furthermore, this is false: On December 04 2015 08:43 Trfel wrote: I looked through Damdred's filter, and I didn't see any scum reads. [...] Thus, the only really noteworthy read in Damdred's filter is his not wanting to lynch NocturneMage (not exactly sure if it was a townread or a not wanting to lynch read, but it's the same for this purpose). If NocturneMage is mafia, there's no way he shoots Damdred here. Damdred said: On December 04 2015 06:04 Damdred wrote: Its pretty obvious no matter what I say that your conclusion I'm mafia gor bad reasons are going to stick. And you really haven't moosey hasn't done anything this game and is 100% a coin flip, nm will be more readable. But your case is founded on bad meta basically. On December 04 2015 06:04 Damdred wrote: I'm not saying that slot can't be scum but I don't think its as lock as you portray it. So on the contrary, scum!NM has no reason to no shoot Damdred. He has no reason to particulary shoot him too; but "f NocturneMage is mafia, there's no way he shoots Damdred here." is false. | ||
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On December 04 2015 23:24 disformation wrote: actually: can you explain that to me? i dont understand it? On December 04 2015 23:26 NocturneMage wrote: No. I thought this at first but I have a reasonable argument against this. I realise it is pre flip association but this becomes more critical once Dani flips. I think you're both wrong. fidei, there is nothing to explain really; rsoultin and HTS both said that LS has a super hard time lying. Knowing this, it's super unlikely the "mod confirm" thing is WIFOM. | ||
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On December 04 2015 08:55 Trfel wrote: I'll check his filter later. I guess LightningStrike also counts as a "lower activity / under the radar" player ever since the deadline, and I could see him shooting Damdred. Damdred thought that of LS: On December 03 2015 08:08 Damdred wrote: LS has basically mod confirmed himself as town. That's pretty shitty but we have to work with it I guess. On December 03 2015 08:15 Damdred wrote: Either way its nto worth talking about its over my opinon was hes basically confirmed himself town. Oh well Trfel does not think NM could have shot Damdred: On December 04 2015 08:43 Trfel wrote: I looked through Damdred's filter, and I didn't see any scum reads. [...] Thus, the only really noteworthy read in Damdred's filter is his not wanting to lynch NocturneMage (not exactly sure if it was a townread or a not wanting to lynch read, but it's the same for this purpose). If NocturneMage is mafia, there's no way he shoots Damdred here. Damdred thought about LS: On December 04 2015 06:04 Damdred wrote: Its pretty obvious no matter what I say that your conclusion I'm mafia gor bad reasons are going to stick. And you really haven't moosey hasn't done anything this game and is 100% a coin flip, nm will be more readable. But your case is founded on bad meta basically. On December 04 2015 06:04 Damdred wrote: I'm not saying that slot can't be scum but I don't think its as lock as you portray it. | ||
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On December 04 2015 23:39 LightningStrike wrote: Rels: Que pensez-vous de NM et James en ce moment? fidei is super likely town. NM I have a super hard time seeing him attacking HTS heads on if he's not town. But his tone is super not analytical, which is super suspicious to me. | ||
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On December 04 2015 23:41 Fidei86 wrote: Rels that is just dumb. His "lie" was to say "I'm town". If you can't do that as Mafia then ... And actually I would say your analysis is EVEN MORE likely to make him Mafia. It's easy to lie and say you're Mafia, but it's hard to lie on reads you don't believe in. LS has no reads. That's what I'm saying. Well I think it makes him confirmed town. | ||
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On December 04 2015 23:43 LightningStrike wrote: idk why google translate put en instead of à for what I was trying to ask you Maybe because "en" is the correct word in this case ? =D | ||
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On December 04 2015 09:03 DoYouHas wrote: BTW, this is the second time everyone ends up agreeing with me and I'm still on most of the scumlists. -_- This is not true and this is not a townie thought. | ||
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On December 04 2015 09:13 DoYouHas wrote: It could be as simple as Damdred is a solid town player, and was read as town by the majority of the players. He clearly had influence as evidenced by the LS wagon. That is enough to make him a good kill. His reads are worth more now that we know for sure he was town, and should be considered carefully, but there is plenty to make him a good nightkill beyond his reads. (Sorry, I know you wanted FF to answer) "I know what I'm doing is wrong but I'm doing it anyway. Look how I'm participating" | ||
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On December 04 2015 22:05 Palmar wrote: Dude... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10890802 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10936906 I'm literally the goddamn prophet of "if you get lynched it's your own damn fault". That ties very well into what I was saying earlier about why I should never be vigged. How the fuck did you get these links in 2 minutes. | ||
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On December 05 2015 00:04 LightningStrike wrote: BTW James I did say some of my treads throughout my filter but here is a list if you really need one -_- Town: Palmar: Meta says town for him here with his push on Shining look exactly like he did to me in Metal Mini FF: Lazy FF is normally town FF from what I remember but I want him to do more work Rels: He actually put out some cases mainly his case on FYH seems to stick out to me a little and when he was scum I don't remember him casing multiple people O_o Shining: His responses and his questioning seem like Town Shining this game. Tfrel: He did try to case people yes but he done it as scum but he seem much more serious tone here but I should prob check the scum game that some of you guys said this similar to his play there. NM: He went super tryhard right out of the gates but my only issue with him like Rels said is that he not as analyical as I remember him being. Null: HTS: Some of her content seems questionable but she not feeling exactly well either but I willing to give her another day for now to have her feel better and post again. James: It might be a long time but I don't think I ever seen james get so tunneled on me ever O_o But his content is okay. Scum: DYH His read progression is very weird like it doesn't feel natural. Plus some of stuff seems like it adds little value. If I missing anyone let me know. The part about me is false. I made multiple cases as scum in Drams, in which you were playing. | ||
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On December 05 2015 00:54 NocturneMage wrote: You can do that as either alignment. You haven't done dick all to show you are town. If you flip town then I'll probably look into Fidei/DYH/possible bussers but not before I read the rest of the thread. What about Trfel ? Palmar ? | ||
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On December 05 2015 01:01 NocturneMage wrote: From a personal viewpoint? No. From a gameplay standpoint? No. I've tried my best here to gauge her using as parallel situation as possible from both alignments. I have no understanding of how Rels fails to see how my thinking isn't analytical but I guess I can't win with everyone. I obviously learnt from newbie 14 I can't convince people for shit and this is my first non-newbie game so it looks like I have a ways to go on this. Are you kidding me. I'm not saying this makes you scum: but your tone is really different from the other games you played. I think I've only seen one of those #9999 that I hate in your posts. | ||
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On December 05 2015 01:19 disformation wrote: I don't think this comes from scum!NM And as explained here: I think HtS is null at best. Since NM is starting to gain a bunch of townie brownies and I believe that his read on HtS is godtier, HtS has a pretty high chance of flipping scum. ...shit. Am I tunneled on DYH? No DYH is probably scum. | ||
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On December 05 2015 01:24 disformation wrote: So, we might just have found 2/3 of the scum team. Yep (= 3 with Trfel. | ||
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On December 05 2015 02:43 NocturneMage wrote: And you Rels also agree with me that Trfel is (likely) mafia as well, is there a case on him, and if so, what page? No case. Look for some posts I made this afternoon | ||
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I don't think he's likely town. | ||
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LOOOOL IM DYING | ||
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On December 05 2015 09:54 Trfel wrote: I think I am going to (for now) make the assumption that Rels is town because I need him to be town. And disformation, too. The following is to Rels and disformation. + Show Spoiler + Step 1: I'm town + Show Spoiler + Hi, I'm town. Rels, Remember that first game we played together? The Newbie game? Where I was mafia with WaveofShadow and we dominated? I looked really good for most of that game, and I was scum. The game after that, I didn't play for ~two days, nearly got mislynched a few times I think, and ended up completely throwing the game for town. And the last two town games I've played, I was a lynch candidate throughout (though never seriously a wagon). My point being that for some players (I'd say most), how "good" or "bad" they look (aka thread standing/status) doesn't really show their alignment. In this game, I have been scumread a ton for my read progression at the start of Day 2. My play at this time was bad, because I made night kill analysis that had too many assumptions and was too likely to be wrong. And I changed my reads based on this analysis. However, there is no mafia motivation for doing this and at face value it does not say anything about my alignment. Having just come off of a game as scum, I'm obviously town in this game because I often have trouble playing town after being scum, much less being mafia. That argument aside, my reads are based on completely different things this game than they are as scum. It's easy for me to look through a filter and call the person scum because of it, it's a lot harder to go through and analyze the mafia motivation and the ways that they could be town. I realize that this is self-meta and I am aware of it, but two things. First, I don't think it's something I can effectively replicate as mafia (though I've never tried). Second, it's extremely town motivated; you can evaluate my read progression for yourself, I think it's obvious that I am putting critical thought into the game and trying to consider things from every angle. Other than the aforementioned night kill analysis, I think that my play has been fairly solid. I haven't really been scumread for anything other than the night kill analysis (and my read changes caused by it) and "playing to my scum meta", both arguments I have dismissed. Step 2: I think that too many people are mafia + Show Spoiler + I think that DoYouHas could maybe be mafia, his activity has seemed really low, however the case on Half the Sky (assuming for the moment that Half the Sky is scum) feels genuine. I don't have as much problem with the "I got nothing on Half the Sky" then "here's why Half the Sky is mafia" because his biggest point came after the first thing was said, but I need to check and see. I'm assuming that you are town because I am. I haven't looked at Fidei86 yet, but his activity has been really high lately. I've heard people use meta to say that high activity makes him 100% town, however that's not too reliable and I should look. I think that Half the Sky is mafia. I think that LightningStrike is town for a few reasons, but there's a small chance he could be mafia. I think that The Shining is maybe town, but I haven't looked at him in a while. His play seemed very different after everyone stopped pushing him, I haven't really felt his thread presence much (though I could easily be wrong on both of these points). I liked his townread of me, but given that everyone else thinks the opposite this might actually suggest that he is mafia. And finally, I have no clue how he concluded that LightningStrike is scum in this game due to comparison with his Drams mafia filter. I guess disformation is probably town, but he could be mafia. However, I'm assuming that he is town. I think that NocturneMage is sort of mafia. I think that Fecalfeast is sort of town, but he could be mafia. I think that Palmar may be mafia. Basically, that's seven people I think may be mafia with a reasonable enough chance (and that's not including my assumption that you two are town). Which is way too many. It is probably safe imo to consider Fecalfeast as town, leaving six people: Fidei86 (just because I haven't looked at him), Half the Sky, The Shining, NocturneMage, DoYouHas, and Palmar. Which still feels like a lot, given that I'm not completely sold on everyone else. This makes it really hard for me to be confident in my reads because I'm suspicious of so many people? It makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong, like I'm stretching on my reasons to scumread people. I need some help/advice here? Step 3: I think that NocturneMage is mafia. I'm either right about this with great reasons, or I'm wrong, all my reasons are garbage, and NocturneMage is the most obvious town in the game. There's nothing in between, and this annoys me. + Show Spoiler + First of all, NocturneMage has been really really good at making himself look good and making me look really really bad. I don't know if this is indicative of him being town or mafia, but I need to say this first. I feel that I've raised several good points against NocturneMage, and he's really good at seemingly dismissing them (without actually dismissing them) in a way that makes me look really bad (objectively bad, not necessarily alignment indicative, usually). He's able to do this because I've been saying way too much, and I haven't been focusing on the important things. Therefore, he's able to make huge arguments over things that don't matter, and ignore the important points. Or manipulate the argument into one that can't be resolved for either side. I'll probably take another try at explaining my reasons for scumreading NocturneMage soon, but making concise arguments that can't be argued into an argument that you can't prove (to everyone, not just yourself) are difficult for me. Raising a ton of points instead of a few key ones is a really horrible habit of mine. Basically, two questions. 1. Do my arguments for scumreading NocturneMage make any sense? Or am I completely on another planet? If the latter, then I'm probably just very wrong and a re-explanation doesn't change this. 2. Is NocturneMage obviously town for other reasons (namely, activity and thread presence) that no other argument could significantly change this? I personally don't think so, but I realize that I am biased. Note that I still feel that my case against MoosyDoosy earlier was extremely strong, perhaps not a 99.9% read but an 80% read or so (MoosyDoosy's post-deadline posts don't fit with my mafia mindset for him, I can't ignore this). However, since Damdred didn't think so, and Damdred's a really good player, I have more doubt about that. Last time I was town, I made what I thought was a really solid case and Damdred completely disagreed and I was right, but Damdred could very well be right this time. What influence, if any, do you think MoosyDoosy's play has on determining NocturneMage's alignment? Step 4: Other people + Show Spoiler + What about the other players in the game? Unfortunately I'm busy and don't have time to go over everyone myself, but I'm mostly looking at Fidei86, The Shining, DoYouHas, and Palmar (excluding Half the Sky because she's very likely mafia, and NocturneMage because he was discussed earlier). Do you feel that any of them can be put out of the "suspicious" range for now, and why? Do any of them deserve more attention? For the record, I'm spoilering this for only you two because no one else has shown willingness to work with me. Except for Fecalfeast, who so far has been too lazy to do much real work, so he doesn't count for this. It doesn't help town if I put out a ton of text about reads that I'm not sure about when no one else cares to talk about it with me. If there are any statements that you disagree with here, please explain. I'm very wrong, very often. Same if you want something to be elaborated on. Wow sry too long to read / answer right now p: will do that tomorrow. Good night | ||
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On December 05 2015 11:32 Rels wrote: Wow sry too long to read / answer right now p: will do that tomorrow. Good night Part 1: self meta is whatever. I actually think part of your play is suspicious. Here is why: - you talk a lot about yourself. - your displayed emotions seem over the top. - your pushes are reminding me of your play in newbie XI, where you made a lot of cases on different people then drop them when you didn't need them anymore. Part 2: dunno bro. That's the state I am since D1. Part 3: NM could definitely be scum here. If he's scum with HTS, they could have organised this bus from the beginning to make NM look good, since HTS could barely play, and it would be weird that NM didn't find out HTS' alignement. It kinda make sense with his weird first posts, where he seemed inclined already to find HTS scum. If they talked about it in the scum QT, it would also explain why DYH had this sudden big case on HTS after the night started. Of course this is a scum narrative. The town narrative is that NM just found HTS with a soulread. Part 4: I think you knew where I am at for all those people right ? | ||
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On December 05 2015 18:33 Trfel wrote: @Rels: I believe that you are moderately suspicious about Palmar, but I checked your filter again and I didn't see anything referencing your Palmar read recently. Can you please clarify? I think that your case on DoYouHas does not show that he is mafia at all. I didn't think that you had any updated reasons, but I might have missed them. I've posted my thoughts about DoYouHas, based on your last post I'm assuming you still think he is mafia, why? I'm going to go to bed now, I'll see your response in the morning. Unless I can't sleep, then I guess I'll be playing mafia straight to the lynch... ugh. Palmar hasn't done anything to make me change my read. I obviously don't agree with your take on my case. I think in particular, his total apathy towards the lynch is scum indicative. | ||
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On December 03 2015 22:15 Palmar wrote: @Rels, I agree with you on Shining and I agree with you on LS. I have repeatedly found disformation's posts to be very unforced and easy to follow so I'll accept your town read on him. HTS/fidei/Trfel, can you give me something to convince me to believe they're all town? Man it would be funny if that is the team. RIP Palmar you made me laugh. | ||
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On December 04 2015 22:03 Palmar wrote: People who I am slightly suspicious of Trfel (It's sort of a sheep from Damdred, but also his emotional outburst yesterday. He was really over the top about a few people not listening to his read on moosy). Seems like I should reread Damdred's filter 'cause I have no idea what Palmar is thinking about here. I thought Dadmred townread Trfel. | ||
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##Vote Fidei86 | ||
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- Palmar advocated his lynch - I saw him play a lot of dota and not caring for the game, which is what he did when he was scum with me in sotw Will reread his filter at some point to see if that checks with his posts, but this seems like a good lynch. | ||
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On December 07 2015 22:31 NocturneMage wrote: Rels Damdred was going back and forth, finding reasons for both rationales of town and mafia Trfel. I think Trfel is the right vote today, but if you're that suspicious of Fidei aside from the reasons I looked into him, what were your other arguments? None. | ||
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On December 07 2015 22:53 disformation wrote: The thing is: someone had to bus her. From my POV two someones have bussed HtS and I am going to find out who. Weird thing to say ? | ||
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On December 07 2015 23:12 disformation wrote: How so? I am the only one who didn't vote her and unless I have misread my role PM, I am quite sure I am town. Thus, the conclusion that both remaining scummers bussed HtS. This might even include one of the ppl who had an early case/suspicion on her. That's true you were the only vote not on HTS. | ||
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On December 07 2015 23:36 NocturneMage wrote: actually looking at the way Damdred played the game come to think of it, the same concept I just discussed regarding Palmar applies to him. Plenty of games on him. He had more focus and direction day 1 but night 1 he did dick all, not sure if he was playing with the intention of trying to not be shot or if he was legit busy. so same question regarding Damdred anyone else (besides LS based on modconfirmation) with reason to dread him? Trfel / Shining / FF are the three players fitting this thing. HTS did too though, so that might apply less on the N1 kill. | ||
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Shining, disfo and LS are town. Kills points at Trfel and fidei. DYH is also an attractive lynch, but kills don't point to him. Finally, fidei's point about NM's being so sure of HTS the minute he enters the thread makes some sense. Looks like FF didn't make any list. Means he's likely town. | ||
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On December 08 2015 00:48 disformation wrote: Hm... think I can agree to most of it. But can you explain your read on LS? Last time I looked at him I wasn't impressed. Both Damdred and Palmar townread him the a high level (confirmed town for Damdred, probably town for Palmar). Him screaming "I'M VT" at deadline of D1. | ||
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DYH, NM: You earned a confirmed town status today due to you being the first pushers of the HTS train. Lynch another mafia and that status will probably extend to the end of the game. | ||
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On December 08 2015 00:59 Fidei86 wrote: ??? I like that you've missed me off this list Rels. Sry bro only two title were in stock. | ||
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He really is robotic in tone. I will check if that works as the case in his town games, but I see what Palmer meant. His ls read seems fake. Around eod, "I would lynch him but I would rather lynch other people." After eod, "Rels and disfo are town if ls is town." Then "actually this confirmed town stuff doesn't convince me", when before eod he was not that convinced on ls to begin with. Now he's still pushing ls for ... I don't really know why. His filter is focused on very few people. I think he's buddying me. After Hts became the clear lynch, he didn't do anything. He was playing dota all weekend instead of being motivated to play. Palmar s main target was fidei and he was the nk. To everyone: please read his filter and report back. | ||
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On December 08 2015 03:46 disformation wrote: NSM12 up to day 2: very similar to this. Starting D2 he starts to show a bit of life in his posts when talking with/to HtS and his scum reads. NSM14 he also sounds very similar to here... well besides this thing: But playing with cupcake can be rather rage inducing. So I understand. But the overwhelming amount of posts sounds like this game. So I guess that is just his default tone and dub him Mr. Roboto. Will look at his filter from this game more closely now. Ok thanks. He actually played a scum game: season of the witch 2. Will check it and the town games you read to compare the tone. | ||
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On December 08 2015 03:49 NocturneMage wrote: I'm marking this for reference because I am looking at this post and there are a slew of things that are throwing me off. Not because I think this post looks scummy but because there is a lot of subjectivity in this read. Tone reads are tone reads. I was taught prior to this game they are very subjective, and generally best for day 1 reads but as a strong meta read through this is day 3? it just seems weak without other evidence like voting analysis etc. or if you can tie the meta to something else. Like when he acts X, he does Y in conjunction with Z. Tie the tone to actions. Tie the tone to effects. Am I making sense? Separate from that however, I will look into the LS read. The unflipped association is really bad but townies also make unflipped association all the time. I pushed LS because he was doing dick all and only such after the fact, and most critically, he failed to push HTS when he found her end of cycle questionable. We both agreed the LS filter was complete trash through the end of day 2, so if LS's game has gotten better (to be fair I stopped reading after the hts lynch) AND if Fidei is continuing to push the lynch, then it does look really bad. I guess it comes down to what work he's put in to get his conclusions. I am putting aside LS for now based on the NKs personally. Back to James focusing on a few people, I can understand as a scum indicative, ignoring time (which can account for town not having the time), it can indicate an agenda. Because mafia need mislynches. I can get that. The same argument however can be made for DYH, but this last thing I looked at him, he doesn't seem to have a lot of time playing the game? Both were making in and out excuses, so only the NK analysis separates those two. To use another example, FF was playing Fallout 4 all weekend. But NKs don't/didn't implicate him, so... Also this term called buddying. I had recently shadowed marvellosity and I asked him a question about the difference between buddying and pocketing. And that they were both related. I didn't understand it in the context you were using it, so I looked it up. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Buddying So I look at this definition Rels, and I am trying to think of a time where Fidei acts "unnaturally friendly" towards you. Lack of scepticism? He explained using meta why he's townreading you but are you saying it's bad meta to townread you or was there another quote that you using to say he's buddying you? I had no idea what buddying really meant. He has a lot of post either talking about me or talking to me. What is your read on LS now then ? Cause that stuff seems to be left without a conclusion. About the lack of time - that's why I precised I saw him on DOTA several times on the weekend. Which is exactly what he did in SOTW 2. | ||
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On December 08 2015 04:00 NocturneMage wrote: I refute all these posts and particularly the basis for this scumreads based on how I replaced into the game, caught up, towncircled and adjusted reads (and I'm still doing so!!!!), and then he's still on his merry way saying I'm mafia? He uses his own metrics to make these assumptions. I'm on page 8/10 of his filter, he gives two town reads on dyh/ls, and then goes back to just seeing me as public enemy #1. focusing on absolutely no one else except me and using explanations that don't make me mafia through several points I've refuted him on based on comparison of his play to last game, his approach to me this game, his refusal to see how I process through a town lens, including any reasoning for my change in tone, which I have explained. he pulled the same shit last game as mafia, stuff that may not be alignment indicative and exclusive scum lens here. and this all, plus the NKs.... Just kill Trfel. I know there is mafia #3, I will follow up on James, and I won't ignore a third mafia but just honestly kill Trfel. Bloody hell. Good stuff on Trfel. Particulary, I didn't understand his change of heart just because of the Damdred NK (Damdred townread NM so he wuold not NK him!) while at the same time saying scum!Shining could have killed Damdred before Damdred realized he's scum. He tried to explain it at first, then said it was a mistake. Let me see if I can find the posts. On December 05 2015 03:00 Trfel wrote: This is simply wrong. Damdred said that he wasn't townreading NocturneMage, but he was clearly resistant to the lynch (as he showed on Day 1). And again, scum doesn't care to keep someone who is townreading them alive if that mafia is going to live for a few days. Like, if The Shining is mafia, he knew that he probably wasn't going to die for a day or two, and that's a lot that could potentially change Damdred's read. Damdred's townread doesn't really mean much and it's okay to kill Damdred, and there's fear that Damdred could figure it out. But NocturneMage was at a high chance of getting lynched the very next day, in which case Damdred's read on him at that very moment (null being better than everyone else's read, and Damdred had a lot of influence, and wouldn't lynch a null read) would be really valuable. Basically, NocturneMage would just have to stay null or look a little better and Damdred would likely try to stop the lynch. I already said that this has too many variables and I'm unable to accurately draw a conclusion from the night kill. I believe the reasons by my earlier analysis but I no longer trust the conclusion. If you think I'm scum for being wrong, you should read any one of my town games, because I'm wrong a whole darn lot. Like this is really false. He's first saying he's right that you would not kill Damdred, as Damdred's read would help you survive; when Damdred said he found Moosy's filter NAI and would evaluate you, which is super scary for a scum to hear. Then he's using a kinda opposite reasonning on Shining. Finally, he admits being wrong, which defeats the whole point of this wall of text. There is only one reason Trfel made this post: defend himself against my accusation. He certainly didn't make it to push his reasonning, since he admits at the end his reasonning was wrong. | ||
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On December 08 2015 05:45 Fidei86 wrote: Disfo I think you fundamentally misunderstand what bussing is. Bussing is where one mafia player actively works to get HTS lynched. The only people who really worked on the HTS lynch actively were NM, DYH and me. Oh and Palmar, but he's flipped town. If any of us were mafia, that would be a bus. The fact is that it was plainly obvious that she was going to get lynched once Alex, Palmar and I basically decided it. Lots of the rest of you voted for her, but just voting for a scum is not the same as bussing. Your logic is just totally wrong here. You don't belong to the "maybe he's scum busing HTS" club IMO. You didn't push her like NM and DYH did. | ||
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On September 25 2015 07:34 Fidei86 wrote: Most of the last 100 posts in the mafia QT are just me and Rels saying "soup hype" Still bring a smile to my face. (= Got some ideas of what to look for, will reread his filter. | ||
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On December 08 2015 06:03 disformation wrote: Hm. scrolling through Trfel's filter... Is he normally this active as town? Do you guys think he might be cluttering up the thread with his huge posts on purpose this game? Actually he advocated lynching rsoultin in Drams so that the thread would be readable. That is a big meta point against him. Will find the exact quote. Actually couldn't find it. | ||
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On December 08 2015 06:11 NocturneMage wrote: Rels to answer your question on LS - I have read from the point of my main exchange with him, pges 7-9 of his filter can be summarised (1) inflating the filter with useless comments (not even part of alignment determining conversation or even afk comments) (2) parroting (examples post 1635) (3) 1450 to 1478 is an example of asking for information and not really doing anything of it This is insane for me. The NKs exonerate LS, but at the same time it is mindboggling this guy is doing dick all and people are ignoring him. His filter is 1000% mafia. Something isn't right. LS is playing like that. I have a hard time reading him normally, I pretended he was obvious town the two games I was scum and he was town, but he looked super scummy to me. The key thing is: LS has a hard time lying and playing as scum. Him screaming at EOD + poping and making comment about stuff is town indicative, as is both Damdred and Palmar saying he is town. | ||
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Good night all! | ||
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On December 08 2015 10:54 NocturneMage wrote: Alright, here we go. Some deep filter research/past games on LS. I'm going through a few LS games as scum. I have some bad news for all you LS defenders, I think current meta is unreliable in gauging him as town. He actually has a very decent chance of being mafia. I'm looking at two scum games by LS - Jack of All Trades - endgamed night 3, mafia victory TL Mafia LXX Guardians of the Galaxy - lynched day 2, mafia victory In both games he has played as mafia, and looks decently (at first glance) close to his current playstyle in this game. Read the Guardians filter in particular and he was downed by a very lucky random tracker role check. Key areas in this one - Damdred had him as scum in that game. This game, he was going to vote LS and only changed based on the modconfirm. Reliability of metaread? Food for thought. IDK. In that game, he was straight up tracker checked and you can't really fight a tracker check. IDK. Now Jack of All Trades - he was clearly coached to play to his town meta this game. This was by geript. Evidence - postgame mentioning by a teammate LS in this game actually endgamed town. So whoever said that LS has trouble playing as mafia......sorry mate, you are wrong. Dead wrong. He endgamed in Jack of All Trades and there's a reason. Further evidence: the game's respective mafia QT. http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Nu9EUQfvt53 geript is completely coaching him to play to his town meta. Same thing could very well be happening with a potential HTS/LS team. HTS and whoever else could be working with him for the same thing here. James you might be on to something here. That policy lynch vote very well might be on to a mafia. TLDR: The current reads right now based on this past performance are unreliable, so at best LS is a coin flip regardless of what people are thinking of this modconfirmation. Scrolled through these two games. In neither LS screamed with all caps, even when being lynched. Furthermore, HTS checking LS' meta so close to the deadline and without unvoting him indicates HTS distancing herself from a town lynch rather than trying to save a teammate. | ||
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On December 08 2015 19:17 Fidei86 wrote: Where are you Rels? Time to pick up a little bit of the weight here, bro. Here bro. Still wanting to lynch LS ? I will fight against that lynch. | ||
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On December 08 2015 19:14 Fidei86 wrote: I appreciate the work you put in on this Alex, but really your post seems to be a very long version of "someone might be helping LS". Of course they might. Although, if they were helping him, they'd probably tell him to stop being so hopeless. No, I think the more likely explanation is that scum LS is genuinely unable to lie. Like, he struggles with it. I struggled with it mightily too when I was mafia with Rels in SOTW2. And when you can't lie, the easiest thing to do is to constantly ask other people questions, give the blandest town reads possible to everyone and generally be useless. I should apologise to LS because if he is trying as town, I'm giving him a very hard time. But this is a game and I can only read what I have in front of me. I really, really, really want everyone to imagine this game if LS isn't lynched. He's going to continue to be an absolute coin-flip throughout the whole game. Like, people have suspicions over Trfel, me, DYH ... I have a recent suspicion on FF. But at least all of those people have shown *some* willing to try and solve the game. If any of them are town, that towniness should in theory be possible to distinguish. LS is always going to be objectively scummy in this game. He has had two full game days to change his play and he hasn't. We lynch him now, maybe hit scum, but definitely get rid of the big damn question-mark over his head. Yes, it's a policy lynch. I get that people think it's lazy. But I've been in too many games where Onegu has AFK'd through the first three days and then got mislynched at the end. That is exactly why LS is probably confirmed town: how he yelled in all caps at deadline D1. | ||
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On December 08 2015 19:31 Fidei86 wrote: (1) Screaming in all caps is LITERALLY THE EASIEST THING TO DO IN THE GAME. IT SHOULD BE USED FOR EMPHASIS ONLY WHEN MAKING IMPORTANT POINTS. (2) Who knows why HTS did what she did. But this point does hold a little more weight. I have thought about it a fair bit. I'm just concerned that it's a little too much WIFOM and a little too little objectivity. And who else do you want to lynch? Me? Don't know, let's talk about it. Trfel ? You're townreading him right ? What happened to your NM potential scumread BTW ? | ||
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On December 08 2015 19:33 Fidei86 wrote: IS THIS WHAT IT HAS COME TO RELS? YOU SOLVE PERSONALITIES (ALMOST), YOU CARRY SOTW AND A BUNCH OF OTHER GAMES, AND NOW YOU WILL EXHONERATE LS BECAUSE HE USED ALL CAPS TO SAY "I'M NOT MAFIA"??? WTF? How can you possibly believe that? Bro calm down. I really think it is town indicative for LS. Sry if that's not classy enough for you. | ||
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On December 08 2015 19:37 Fidei86 wrote: Eh, my town read on Trfel is highly out of date. I don't think I've properly considered his filter since D1. I do recall that he has had a cast-iron scum case on most of the people in the game. I've never come across a player like that before, so I have nothing to bench mark against. I really need to wrap a cold towel around my head and start reading his filter. My potential scum-read on NM remains. I do think that it is a very possible play that NM and HTS cooked up his thread entry in a scenario where she wanted out of the game. However, the more likely option is that he just has a god-like read on Dani and has also been working hard on improving his thread presence, which is definitely a lot stronger this game than previous games. He is also the only one who seems to be town reading me. I feel buddied. K. I have a break in 1 hour, you will be around ? | ||
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On December 08 2015 19:40 Fidei86 wrote: Yes. Will you please read FF's filter? OK. Will you read Trfel's filter ? | ||
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On December 08 2015 19:55 Fidei86 wrote: I actually kind of want to know whether LS thinks that him speaking in all caps is town indicative. I remember a rsoultin's quote from Himalays saying kinda "if LS is capable to fake stuff like that, he has changed and I would be a little disapointed." | ||
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On December 08 2015 21:34 Fidei86 wrote: Being town is frustrating, but being Mafia is like being hunted. I wonder if that's a heuristic that might help in this game. Hmm. Kind of a backhanded compliment there Rels, but I'll take it You re the one that bought up disfo saying game is hard I'm pretty sure. When I read that I thought it was town indicative. | ||
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On December 07 2015 09:47 DoYouHas wrote: Her interaction with Trfel makes him very likely town. Please expand. | ||
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On December 08 2015 14:17 DoYouHas wrote: Soooooo, my reason for townreading Trfel apparently is bad. It is association based on his interactions with HtS. I've been looking at his last scum game. If I was playing, I would never have picked up on anything odd between him and Breshke. So confused... Oh here is the expanded version. | ||
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Please vote DYH and let's lynch scum. I hope that's enough to make you (yes, you, reading this) switch; read his filter and understand why. Hints: - what is his only strong read ? Did it start after a replacement of someone special to HTS ? Could scum know NM would push HTS regardless of NM's alignement ? - how strong is his other reads compared to his main one ? - what evolution his NM read take ? - is he doing nothing while tons of people are townreading him and fighting each other ? | ||
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##Vote DoYouHas | ||
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On December 08 2015 22:31 disformation wrote: Not yet 100% here. I kinda liked DYH's case on me, but him doing a 180° (again) is kinda strange. I need to double check something on this... Rels, why are you so sure LS is town? #1745 : Remember that I did a mistake with the "why is he not voting LS thing" Can totes see DYH being a thing today. Will be here for reelz in about an hour. I had a post not a long time ago about it. A combination of LS yelling which he has never done as scum + HTS being OK with LS' lynch until 10 minutes before deadline, and then distancing herself from the lynch | ||
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On December 08 2015 22:31 disformation wrote: Will be here for reelz in about an hour. Oh you (= | ||
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On December 08 2015 23:00 LightningStrike wrote: Sheep me everybody. Lynch the Mafia James from these Town grounds! Tell me when you finished reading DYH's filter | ||
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On December 09 2015 01:21 NocturneMage wrote: stuck on mobile a bit longer. why in the bloody hell are we voting DoYouHas? Trfel is 1000% more likely to flip mafia. and LS' case on Fidei is beyond awful. Because DYH is scum. | ||
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On December 09 2015 02:21 Trfel wrote: Actually, hm, looking really quickly at Rels' filter the last few pages, I think I'd rather lynch Rels. The way he bounces from target to target and is scumreading all of them doesn't make me think that he actually cares about the lynch. I'm pushing my initial scumread. | ||
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On December 09 2015 02:21 Trfel wrote: Actually, hm, looking really quickly at Rels' filter the last few pages, I think I'd rather lynch Rels. The way he bounces from target to target and is scumreading all of them doesn't make me think that he actually cares about the lynch. On December 09 2015 02:22 Trfel wrote: ##unvote ##vote Rels 1 - I'm pushing for one lynch. Explain how it matches with "he doesn't care about the lynch". 2 - what you describe is how you played this D2. How is it different from me ? 3 - if NM is scum, DYH is a likely partner, as they would follow the same mafia's plan (busing HTS); and the only strong stuff on DYH's filter is his push on HTS. Why are you not suspecting DYH if you think NM is scum ? | ||
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On December 09 2015 03:04 Fidei86 wrote: Doesn't that mean that it would be Trfel DYH? Does that team even make sense? Is it likely the two main wagons Trfel and DYH (NM! Lynch LS with me) are both Mafia? Xmas party at work. Why wouldn't it make sense (real question) ? What makes sense in that team is that Trfel is scumreading NM but townreading DYH, when there is an association between their strategies D2. | ||
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On December 09 2015 03:11 NocturneMage wrote: It is absolutely possible that the team is HTS/DYH/Trfel (particularly with Trfel's hard defence of DYH and DYH looking into Trfel, albeit slightly delayed), and I said to Rels that the points on DYH can be sorted, but the evidence against Trfel is more definitive and alignment indicative than what is on DYH. How likely is another question though and I had tried to make the argument that you always lynch the more likely mafia of the two. HTS was 1000% more likely than DYH yesterday, and Trfel is much more likely than DYH today. he is making a position change that he cannot possibly believe. the bussing argument has been beaten to death, rels needs to explain how the read on me isn't natural because I'm apparently too dumb to see it. He mentioned that he kinda townread you; then he mentioned the NM busing theory makes some sense; then he drops it entirely. | ||
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On December 09 2015 03:13 NocturneMage wrote: Clarification question - Is this separate from your NM read evolution argument? or is this THE evolution argument? Not at all. | ||
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On December 09 2015 03:19 NocturneMage wrote: Okay, I read your argument again. You are making the argument their reads make them mafia by association. Can you break down a position change that is not believable from DYH's realm with respect to his read on me? Can you break down a position or read change with respect to his read on anyone (aside from HTS)? I am making this argument for Trfel thus I feel Trfel is more likely mafia than DYH. I'm going to try and read on mobile one more time to make sure I'm not being dumb. On this matter, no, its a Trfel problem. What is extremely weird is the strength of dyh s case just after you got replaced compares to all his other reads this game. He even said before deadline he read Hts filter and found nothing to say; after you get replaced, suddenly a case. Since the lynch he s done almost nothing. | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:07 Fidei86 wrote: Hey Rels. LS posted in caps again. Guess that means he's town right? yep p: | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:13 Trfel wrote: Change of assumptions. I'm going to assume that even if I don't know why, the most active/vocal posters are town and mostly wrong. And the mafia are casually standing by the side, watching and sometimes supporting, but letting others lead. I think that this points at Fecalfeast. Thoughts? WTF you're dropping your reads like flies. First the Xtrem case, then the vote on me, now this | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:30 NocturneMage wrote: LS has 5x the number of games played as disformation. He has a track record of pulling the same shit as mafia as town. On the games you linked he didn't write a all majs post | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:46 DoYouHas wrote: I popped up an hour before deadline, which is when I get off work. Sry bro, it totally defeats the point | ||
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FF and Shining did too. At least Shining has his usual excuse | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:47 NocturneMage wrote: Not a good reason, mate. He's an American. Americans end of cycle times is like evening rush hour or some shit generally. No but he didn't do shit today. What is your stuff about Trfel changing his LS read ? | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:36 NocturneMage wrote: Read 3 DYH scum games. I don't think I'm going to vote for DYH. This guy to me is a coin flip as far as this game is concerned, so I had to resort to the database. The only question I have for him is where he is on me, Rels questioned why he dropped his suspicion on me. He seems a bit tryhard and in the scum games I read, he's using way more WIFOM arguments to make his conclusions. He's not doing it here, here it seems to be lack of activity and followup. What did you think ? | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:56 NocturneMage wrote: I could vote Fecalfeast and say fuck it, but it'd be pure yolo. You're reading my mind. | ||
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On December 09 2015 08:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Fecalfeast (3): Trfel, The Shining, disformation These are confirmed town =D Perfect | ||
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On December 09 2015 08:06 The Shining wrote: You're fucking welcome. Yesssss. I think disfo is last scum. He switched onto ff too easy. I need to filter check him just in case but I think I have this game figured out. I don't agree. He could sit on DYH if he's scum without a problem. I think DYH is the last scum. | ||
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On December 09 2015 08:08 The Shining wrote: Not necessarily. Disfo is on my and dyhs radar. And no one wanted to lynch disfo. NM and you both posted a possible Yolo vote on ff so he could've felt the pressure and jumped for town cred Pretty sure he voted before both NM and I said that. | ||
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On December 09 2015 08:08 Rels wrote: Pretty sure he voted before both NM and I said that. I was wrong. | ||
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On December 04 2015 10:24 disformation wrote: I don't think I can compete with Trfel. This HtS thing is super confusing to me right now, so I was trying to find something in the EoD1. Like Trfel is sending mixed signal, NocturneMage replaced into a super shady looking slot with some shady looking entry posts and the guy I have a scum read on (DYH) hesitates not a second to vote with NM... though after rereading DYH's case on HtS it isn't bad... which brings me to the next point: If I ignore HtS's sickness, she doesn't good either. Can't even hope that Damdred comes in, drops three one liners, and drops some of his logic... Btw, do you have a read on DYH? On December 05 2015 08:17 disformation wrote: Hmmm... I think her last post was at start of N1 when kush flipped? So possible. Currently looking at Fidei86's filter. Any questions for me while I am around? Have you looked at DYH, yet? On December 05 2015 10:55 Fecalfeast wrote: Hm, I guess this makes sense. Maybe I need to look more closely but let's assume there's no shenanigans tomorrow and HTS flips red. What does that make you think of DYH? On December 05 2015 11:07 Fecalfeast wrote: could you expand upon your DYH read since we're talking about him right now? These are weird because FF didn't have a read on DYH for the whole game. | ||
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On December 09 2015 08:45 NocturneMage wrote: In any case though I'm happy we lynched scum, I'm really frustrated at how play was going before end of cycle. I felt the way some of the shit I was looking at was counterintuitive for town play. Like how the fuck am I supposed to read the unreadable? How ?? play ? | ||
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On December 09 2015 08:51 NocturneMage wrote: I'll rephrase. I'll give an example. Like LS as I've been saying all game was doing dick all. I have no idea how I was supposed to ever townread him. Trfel was making no sense either. Like I needed the flip and the votes to figure it out. Am I making sense? Yep I got you. | ||
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On December 09 2015 18:47 Fidei86 wrote: The thing I don't understand is how the VCA, in my mind, massively implicates either Rels or Alex. But neither seems to think that it could possibly be the other. ??? Reading FF's filter yesterday I had the feeling NM couldn't be scum with him. I need to reread to see why I thought that. Voting doesn't really incriminates him IMO. | ||
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1 - FF puts suspicions on NM by himself, not quoting or sheeping anyone. This is town indicative for NM. On December 03 2015 11:48 Fecalfeast wrote: I can't be the only one who read all these NM posts as though he is really trying to put on a show, right? IDK maybe I'm being a shitlord but why do you need to mention twice that you're town? Let alone claiming VT in a setup where, from what I can tell, mafia doesn't know the roles in the game. This is also reading like you already have a read on her. You even tell someone to give you information about her regarding the lynch in the context that she got someone lynched strategically yet don't actually know? Feels like you're already aware of what you want to read HTS but you're also talking like you haven't read anything. Throwing you in the suspicious pile 2 - FF discusses a little bit with NM. Not much, but more than some other people (DYH, fidei, me). This is town indicative, as scum usually avoids each other in thread. On December 04 2015 09:48 Fecalfeast wrote: Thank you! Someone else who understand that a minute is a long time in the context of a shenanigan eod On December 05 2015 08:37 Fecalfeast wrote: Hm I didn't think of the bolded from that angle. | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:59 Fecalfeast wrote: GG boys I was VT No matter how many times I read this, I laugh every time (= | ||
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1 - never talked directly to him. 2 - does not have a read on him ever: The only posts where we can guess his read on DYH are these ones. It looks like he's townleaning him, but not much. This is a scum partner indicator. On December 05 2015 11:07 Fecalfeast wrote: DYH brought up HTS as possibler scum before NM and NM referenced DYH in his post calling HTS scummy. I think NM's entrance set a bit of a scummy tone initially but his recent postings have been pointed and he seems to be following a logical thought progression. He's obviously very confident in his HTS read which is why I'm sheeped all over that. I think NM is towny though I'm pretty allergic to deep reading right now. also he has 5 pages after replacing in night 1, is NM known to be a high effort scum? On December 06 2015 09:10 Fecalfeast wrote: What posts are taking the easy way out btw shining? I'm aware that I told LS that I'd do stuff and then did not but when did I deliver easy low effort content relative to what "lazy uncaring town FF" would do? re: scum busing hts yep, scum bused hts. NM had her number and she would know that from the get go, especially with her being sick. Which leads into disform, the WIFOM here is strong but I don't think scum would put themselves out there like a sore thumb like that. re: people voting hts too easily everyone? DYH at least had a case but most people referenced NM when they voted from what I remember 3 - questions people that talks about DYH, asking them to flesh out their reads / expand. This is a classic mafia partner tell; FF does not push DYH, but is acting like he might be suspicious of him so they're not too obviously linked. On December 05 2015 10:06 Fecalfeast wrote: can you flesh out why you think this progression is scummy any further? I'm looking at this filter and while it's a little short on portion size it's looking pretty well explained. Not to mention the fact that if HTS flips red here the fact remains that he brought her up as a potential target before NM + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2015 11:08 NocturneMage wrote: hts is a sleazeball as mafia, I love her to death, but I'll pretty much know immediately if she's mafia because I obviously know her in real life and if she's out of bounds with her personality, she is almost certainly mafia. obviously if I think she's mafia, I will case her in a way that doesn't require you to know her in real life. unless her dota friends want to argue they have some feels on her from external behaviour. rels, fidei? I'm looking at you two. although seeing doyouhas' post, if hts got someone lynched who was scumreading her, that is a major red flag in my book. that is routine mafia play for her. dani as mafia will absolutely push the lynches of the people who want her dead. so dyh, what was her role in the lynch? On December 05 2015 10:55 Fecalfeast wrote: Hm, I guess this makes sense. Maybe I need to look more closely but let's assume there's no shenanigans tomorrow and HTS flips red. What does that make you think of DYH? On December 05 2015 11:07 Fecalfeast wrote: could you expand upon your DYH read since we're talking about him right now? | ||
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1 - FF has no read on him at all between these two posts. Both posts it's a townlean that could easily be reversed, so scum points for disfo. On December 03 2015 09:16 Fecalfeast wrote: Not a bad point on disform at face value but if disform wasn't sure of his play before and has since learned that constructed posts are scummy, what's the problem calling out something he has learned to be generally scummy? On December 09 2015 07:49 Fecalfeast wrote: At first I got thevibe you were coasiting along but then your case dropped and I forgave you 2 - He interacted more with disfo than I thought. Nothing strong, but I think the third quote might be indicative of disfo being town, as he has no problems talking to him. On December 05 2015 10:06 Fecalfeast wrote: can you flesh out why you think this progression is scummy any further? I'm looking at this filter and while it's a little short on portion size it's looking pretty well explained. Not to mention the fact that if HTS flips red here the fact remains that he brought her up as a potential target before NM + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2015 11:08 NocturneMage wrote: hts is a sleazeball as mafia, I love her to death, but I'll pretty much know immediately if she's mafia because I obviously know her in real life and if she's out of bounds with her personality, she is almost certainly mafia. obviously if I think she's mafia, I will case her in a way that doesn't require you to know her in real life. unless her dota friends want to argue they have some feels on her from external behaviour. rels, fidei? I'm looking at you two. although seeing doyouhas' post, if hts got someone lynched who was scumreading her, that is a major red flag in my book. that is routine mafia play for her. dani as mafia will absolutely push the lynches of the people who want her dead. so dyh, what was her role in the lynch? On December 05 2015 10:17 Fecalfeast wrote: olol wait we have basically the exact same description and yet the post is addressed to you and not me On December 09 2015 07:49 Fecalfeast wrote: At first I got thevibe you were coasiting along but then your case dropped and I forgave you LS is honestly probably not scum but I think I have missed a few games with LS lately maybe he's changed? As scum he usually just shuts down from what I remember. Rels seems to be slowly dropping off but I can't really say my words hold much weight in that department NM is ignoring anyone who mentions me which is weird as I'm fairly aware of how scum likes to treat me when I'm town Trfel has the same icon as rels now and I've been mixing their posts up and am thinkning I need to reread lol but I have no time | ||
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On December 09 2015 20:15 NocturneMage wrote: I see the points Rels you make on FF/DYH.... But (1) did you look at the interactions in reverse No. But I don't sure DYH mentions FF once in his filter. I think I remember him being in a "unfiltered" section of one post once; maybe I'm thinking of someone else though. On December 09 2015 20:15 NocturneMage wrote: (2) how are you so sure as to DYH/HTS on the same team like Shining has given the appropriate interactions to make all three of his suggested fit on the scum team. Or are you still on the theory that his case emerged too close to the time of my replacement? Yep. | ||
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On December 07 2015 09:20 DoYouHas wrote: So this analysis is very similar to votecount, but it is based off of lists that a scum player makes. Every scum player I have ever played with will include at least 1 scum-mate on lists that they make. Here is HtS's first list: + Show Spoiler + On December 01 2015 09:31 Half the Sky wrote: Hey everyone. A few thoughts on my end before I head to bed - Nulls on Rels/Damdred regarding setup discussion/speculation as I feel those are types of posts that can be made as either alignment (and such Rels' scumreads on Do and Damdred could also fall under the same category) by players who know general gameplay well enough. Trfel's comments on LS I have a mixed reaction on. I don't like the following phrasing and here's why: When I read this, I read it as trying to absolve responsibility from self regardless of actual intention (baiting in this case) - it's not what LS posted that is the problem, it's what you (Trfel) did about it. That reaction makes me think whether you are trying to cover something up. Moosy is something I am going to need more time reading given his general playstyle. No read on him so far obviously. disformation hasn't made any reads yets with the Trfel/Damdred interaction going on, and I think that might have been about when he left the thread. Answered Trfel's question, but from recalling the last student game, he did take more stances in that game. So far probable scumleans on Trfel/disformation. Fidei was someone who falls off hard as mafia, first post based on his SOTW 2 performance (mafia) is going to weigh in at NAI. The ONLY thing that jumps out at me from Fidei's post is why he commented on Rels being towny but Damdred not being so even though both talked about the setup, and Damdred seems to make more of a point in trying to get town to coalesence. Moving to Palmar/Shining... 1. Damdred, Rels, Moosy, Trfel, Disfo HtS's second, third, & lynch list: + Show Spoiler + On December 02 2015 04:27 Half the Sky wrote: I need to put my head down again since I'm still feeling pretty sick. Going to go through again Trfel/Damdred/Fidei/disformation etc. on a full re-read. I'm also having issues with town reads. Right now, I need to flesh out Trfel a little more, same for disformation and LS. The lynch list right now is kush/DYH, Onegu is straight policy, but there's got to be an active mafia somewhere. Palmar is probably town but this is a gut feel based on how he proceeded with the case. 2. Trfel, Damdred, Fid, Disfo 3. Trfel, Disfo, LS Lynch: DYH, Kush, Onegu(pure policy) HtS's fourth list: + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2015 04:48 Half the Sky wrote: I'm here. I am still really sick (and thanks for the well wishes all, I hope I will improve) but I'm going to try my best here to answer all the questions possible. The above is correct. This also partially helps answer Trfel's question to me - LS was not in my lynch list (and relative to the rest of the thread) because D1, similar to SOTW, if there's something that is not clicking I have to flesh his reads out. He was a scumlean based on the stuff he said, I hashed out to make sure I was understanding LS, and it was back to null pending the interactions with other people in the thread. There was a part where he mentioned Trfel casing Damdred (and I still have to go back and look at that, Christ) which would give some indication as to Trfel/Damdred/LS alignments to some extent. Obviously need to catch up on the rest of his filter. Not lynching him until I read and feel otherwise. Trfel, I mentioned a post where I scumleaned you initially for the comment you made on LS. I made an explanation as to why, it was something along the lines of tone and not wanting to take responsibility. There was something else that you mentioned, you answered it, but if you answered that first concern, show me the post where you did. There's a very good chance I missed it. Again, I failed to analyse you v Damdred. DYH over kush - It was part read on Trfel and part lack of followup on Trfel at that time when he commented on Shining/Palmar, which I felt could have come from either alignment. Also I wanted to press him for more reads, and I recall I did that somewhere. Obviously need to check his filter again and see what he's done since. I know I did not scumread him on activity especially since it's my first game with him and I don't know offhand if he's a lurky player. In any instance, I put both in a lynch list and I gave my reasons for not liking kush. Also I think it was you Trfel, whoever it was said that scum doesn't know the setup. This is not true. Look at the day one post. There is a list of 4 setups so that is part of where my statement came from. Additional comments/followups from what I saw from skimming the thread: Rels - posting game details has to be done regardless of whatever else games I'm playing. It either needed to be done when signups went up or very soon after. I was queued in, it had to get done. Take that as you will. Disformation - looking at your response to my last question right now, also did you have a question for me? You said a few times you were looking through my filter. Trfel - did you answer my questions regarding distinguishing activity between DYH and kush? (post 391, again if I missed it point it out) If you looked into Rels based on your last response to me, what did you think of him? (same deal if I missed it) Should hopefully be able to move forward after this. Let me see who is up for lynch and weigh in... 4. Trfel, DYH, Kush, Rels, Disfo - Ok. So she is putting Trfel and Disfo in pretty much all of her lists. By my above heuristic this makes one or both of them more likely to be mafia. However, take a look at her interactions with the people on her lists in her filter and see if any of them feel out of place compared to the others. Compared to her interactions with Trfel, Rels, Damdred and her suspicion of me and Kush, her interaction with Disfo is very bland, flat. She starts with vague scumlean but the rest of her interaction reads more like she is inviting him to interact with her for the sake of interacting. - I think the cross between these two methods is a pretty good reason to scumread Disfo. Please look into it yourselves. ##Vote: Disformation On December 04 2015 09:13 DoYouHas wrote: It could be as simple as Damdred is a solid town player, and was read as town by the majority of the players. He clearly had influence as evidenced by the LS wagon. That is enough to make him a good kill. His reads are worth more now that we know for sure he was town, and should be considered carefully, but there is plenty to make him a good nightkill beyond his reads. (Sorry, I know you wanted FF to answer) On December 06 2015 07:04 DoYouHas wrote: My PoE right now looks like this: Town: Rels, Shining, LS(I am still on board with the EoD VT claim) Townlean: Disfo, Palmar, Fid (need to look into him more) Unfiltered: NM, FF Suspicious but incomplete: Trfel Scum: HTS There is 0 read / interaction between the two. | ||
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On December 09 2015 21:44 NocturneMage wrote: On the topic of blues I doubt we have a vig. I don't know what sort of idiot vig would hold their shot until night 3. Even someone as inexperienced as me would try and do something with it  It's like almost confirmed the setup is vet / boxer. The only other way is if there is a cop that checked Damdred or Palmar; in any other case he should have out his check. I don't believe a vig / cop would have held their shots until N3. | ||
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On December 09 2015 22:43 NocturneMage wrote: I have had one game as cop. I was told by my coach to only claim in 3 situations (1) if I was getting lynched (2) in mylo/lylo with all checks (3) if I got a redcheck and even in that situation, to evaluate for a possible miller or whether you can push that player's lynch without outing the check. But surely I imagine everyone has different opinions, I guess claiming early does narrow the lynch pool but it seems intriguing to wait it out and then claim in lylo, possibly throwing a wrench in mafia's plans if you are set up for possible mislynch. IDK. Given the chaotic situation yesterday, a cop outing his check would have been the right play IMO, since the check is guaranted to be accurate; 2 confirmed townies would have been good. I don't agree with outing only at LYLO. If you do this, you let the mafia chose if they want to counterclaim or not, with no way to mechanically confirm the claims. The best time to claim if the game is going well is LYLO-1 IMO. The situation is kinda different in this game though, since the cop is 1-shot; the main benefit of not-claiming (staying alive) doesn't exist. The only upside of not claiming is taking the mafia by surprise; and since they know there is a cop if there is no GF and no vig kills, it's not really taking them by surprise. The downside of not claiming a check that is not on a dead person is losing the check, and it would be a big lost. | ||
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On December 10 2015 00:26 disformation wrote: I think the part with onegus filter should have said, open AT own risk and I am not accountable FOR any injuries. english hard language. I'll probably be semi around today, trying to get a bit of stuff done home office style, this game has eaten a fair share of my time and I am a bit behind on a few things. If you have further questions just shoot, cause mafia won't. Can you read FF's filter and: - see if it matches with your read on DYH ? - who is the most likely partner based on his filter (or 2nd most likely if your 1st is DYH) ? | ||
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On December 10 2015 00:31 disformation wrote: Hmm... not sure what you mean with the bold part. Like, see if my points on FF might match my points on DYH? OK like that it might be better: Reading FF's filter, who is his most likely partner and why ? Is DYH a likely partner ? | ||
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On December 07 2015 08:38 NocturneMage wrote: (reading a few filters but may be interrupted here....) LOL that made me laugh. Good memories (= | ||
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This joy feeling a slowly being replaced by a cold sensation. | ||
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On December 10 2015 01:44 Rels wrote: This joy feeling a slowly being replaced by a cold sensation. Gone now. I like NM's filter. | ||
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On December 04 2015 22:03 Palmar wrote: Leaning town: disformation (mostly a leftover tone read from day 1. I've yet to read a post of his that feels forced or awkward). People who I have ignored/Have little opinion on: DoYouHas (his filter on day 1 was bad, but I sort of started ignoring him after misreading one of his posts. I should probably have looked into him anyway) On December 05 2015 22:11 Palmar wrote: I don't know if I'm going to do much more today, it's weekend. Based on reading HtS and NM yesterday, I'm going to leave my vote on her. I think it's the right call. I won't be here at the deadline (or well... I won't be here from many hours before the deadline until tomorrow), so meh. I'll check my phone and such. If anyone wants my attention for something special just shout, I'll hopefully notice. I still think this is a reasonably good lynch. NM seems kinda towny and he's very sure about HtS, and her entire tone is very very bland as I talked about. I am again more suspicious of fidei and trfel than I was previously, with NM moving into the probably town column. I actually read something FF wrote that made me think he's town too, but since I can't even remember what it was, it can't have been super significant. Still for now this is good enough. I have yet to read FF, DYH and I think some other people, but I'll have to do that during the night or tomorrow. Good luck guys. If DYH is scum, Palmar was a good kill. | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:54 Trfel wrote: I think I've learned something very interesting about my town play. Unfortunately, it's not the thing that I wanted to learn... Or maybe I'm just completely wrong about it. Oh well. Lynch Fecalfeast. What was that ? | ||
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On December 10 2015 09:41 The Shining wrote: GG Trfel. I can't tell if scum didn't shoot me because I'm wrong on disfo and they want him mislynched, or because shooting me would've implicated disfo too much. Or Trfel confirmed himself town with the Fecal lynch and scum needed him gone for that. Iirc Trfel was still entertaining the thought of NM scum...But he also hinted at being willing to vote disfo, as per that spoiler on one of his posts saying I probably saved him some reading. It could be a way to weaken the disfo wagon while leaving me alive to drown in wifom. I'm phone posting so I'll do some rereads and make a decision when I get home. I'm iffy on disfos reaction to my case, too, it doesn't make me see him any better. Hmmm. Yep kill points at disfo / NM. But Palmar's kill pointed at Trfel / fidei, so I don't think it's the best way to decide. DYH is probably the last scum. ##Vote DoYouHas | ||
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On December 09 2015 19:49 Rels wrote: Now here is what FF does concerning DYH: 1 - never talked directly to him. 2 - does not have a read on him ever: The only posts where we can guess his read on DYH are these ones. It looks like he's townleaning him, but not much. This is a scum partner indicator. 3 - questions people that talks about DYH, asking them to flesh out their reads / expand. This is a classic mafia partner tell; FF does not push DYH, but is acting like he might be suspicious of him so they're not too obviously linked. | ||
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FF didn't really take advantage of it. I don't see disfo being the last scum, that would mean the scum team just didn't get advantage of their perfect info. This indicates of course dyh or nm. Maybe fidei too. Please stop being inactive and lets lynch dyh today please. I think I'll fight for his lynch. | ||
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On December 11 2015 02:03 NocturneMage wrote: I wasn't aware I got a free vote. Cheers mods. ##vote disformation In seriousness, I'll be around I want to say midnight-ish my time to read further/discuss (looking more into more indicative evidence if any on Rels case ATM I'm not sure I understand) if people are around. The 3rd part of the post of ff posts on dyh is super incriminating. Ff refusing to give a read on dyh, but being aware he made a case on hts + asking everybody that talks about dyh means they are partner. Do you disagree ? | ||
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On December 11 2015 12:41 LightningStrike wrote: Anyways Rels if you are here can you tell me why you thought Tfrel was more scum than FF at EoD? 1 - the whole day I was suspicious of Trfel. 2 - at EOD he came back voting me with no explanation; left; than came back changing his mind again and voted FF. I found that suspicious. 3 - I have DYH as scum, and I found his behaviour towards Trfel at EOD maybe partner indicative; he said he was OK to lynch Trfel; didn't vote him; and went back on disfo. | ||
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On December 11 2015 11:14 DoYouHas wrote: Rels, definitely rels. I'm actually considering him being potentially more likely than disfo. Trfel's death points his direction. He has push cases and suspicions almost exclusively on townies. He defends or doesn't interact with scum. On December 11 2015 13:57 DoYouHas wrote: Look at night kills: Damdred- Read as townie by majority of players, killed when he has few scumreads or pushes going. Palmar- Difficult lynch, killed before he starts really solving the game Trfel- Essentially confirmed town, no reads going into the day The common thread for every kill has been someone who would be difficult to lynch but could also come at the game with a new perspective. This implies that scum is less threatened by the current sentiment of the thread and more worried about an unknown element coming in and screwing things up. The person that fits this mentality the best atm is Rels. There is the added benefit that Trfel was also one of the most likely among us to suspect and push Rels. It is a bit WIFOM, but adding the fact that disfo hammered ff to the fact that Shining is still with us, my money is on Rels flipping scum over disfo. ##Vote: Rels =D these are not reason that makes someone scum: pushing townies and "he is townread so he killed undecided townies". What are your reasons for reverting your read on disfo ? Last time I checked your reasons for scumreading him were: On December 09 2015 07:16 DoYouHas wrote: I haven't completely flipped on you. I am still quite suspicious. Unless shining gets in here and helps me, that doesn't matter at the moment. I said my case was weaker because I realized that I wasn't able to recognize that trfel could have had that much interaction with HtS and still be either alignment. He had interactions with Breshke last game that even knowing both of their alignments, I wouldn't have found it suspect. That means the back half of my reasoning on you is not as sound as it needed to be to push your lynch. On December 09 2015 07:55 DoYouHas wrote: Screw it, I'm going to trust my initial instinct. ##Vote: Disformation Shining, get on this wagon. Can you expand on your "initial instinct" ? 'cause your initial instinct on disfo seems to me to be town. You even literally said "That was my gut read from the earlier filter reading." during D2: On December 03 2015 07:56 DoYouHas wrote: What do you want from me Rels? I don't have good scumreads after dropping trfel. I sheep the wagon of 3 of my townreads in Damdred, disfo, and Palmar. It is what it is. On December 04 2015 14:38 DoYouHas wrote: The smart play for town if you do not have any good scumreads of your own at the end of the day is to sheep the scumreads of those you believe to be town, which is exactly what I did. And yes, Disfo gets lumped into my towngroup. That was my gut read from the earlier filter reading. Not particularly useful when I was searching for scum as I was choking on town/null reads and unable to find things I wanted to pursue. It was useful in deciding where to place my vote at the end of the day. On December 06 2015 07:04 DoYouHas wrote: My PoE right now looks like this: Town: Rels, Shining, LS(I am still on board with the EoD VT claim) Townlean: Disfo, Palmar, Fid (need to look into him more) Unfiltered: NM, FF Suspicious but incomplete: Trfel Scum: HTS Then you voted disfo for this reason: On December 07 2015 09:20 DoYouHas wrote: So this analysis is very similar to votecount, but it is based off of lists that a scum player makes. Every scum player I have ever played with will include at least 1 scum-mate on lists that they make. Here is HtS's first list: + Show Spoiler + On December 01 2015 09:31 Half the Sky wrote: Hey everyone. A few thoughts on my end before I head to bed - Nulls on Rels/Damdred regarding setup discussion/speculation as I feel those are types of posts that can be made as either alignment (and such Rels' scumreads on Do and Damdred could also fall under the same category) by players who know general gameplay well enough. Trfel's comments on LS I have a mixed reaction on. I don't like the following phrasing and here's why: When I read this, I read it as trying to absolve responsibility from self regardless of actual intention (baiting in this case) - it's not what LS posted that is the problem, it's what you (Trfel) did about it. That reaction makes me think whether you are trying to cover something up. Moosy is something I am going to need more time reading given his general playstyle. No read on him so far obviously. disformation hasn't made any reads yets with the Trfel/Damdred interaction going on, and I think that might have been about when he left the thread. Answered Trfel's question, but from recalling the last student game, he did take more stances in that game. So far probable scumleans on Trfel/disformation. Fidei was someone who falls off hard as mafia, first post based on his SOTW 2 performance (mafia) is going to weigh in at NAI. The ONLY thing that jumps out at me from Fidei's post is why he commented on Rels being towny but Damdred not being so even though both talked about the setup, and Damdred seems to make more of a point in trying to get town to coalesence. Moving to Palmar/Shining... 1. Damdred, Rels, Moosy, Trfel, Disfo HtS's second, third, & lynch list: + Show Spoiler + On December 02 2015 04:27 Half the Sky wrote: I need to put my head down again since I'm still feeling pretty sick. Going to go through again Trfel/Damdred/Fidei/disformation etc. on a full re-read. I'm also having issues with town reads. Right now, I need to flesh out Trfel a little more, same for disformation and LS. The lynch list right now is kush/DYH, Onegu is straight policy, but there's got to be an active mafia somewhere. Palmar is probably town but this is a gut feel based on how he proceeded with the case. 2. Trfel, Damdred, Fid, Disfo 3. Trfel, Disfo, LS Lynch: DYH, Kush, Onegu(pure policy) HtS's fourth list: + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2015 04:48 Half the Sky wrote: I'm here. I am still really sick (and thanks for the well wishes all, I hope I will improve) but I'm going to try my best here to answer all the questions possible. The above is correct. This also partially helps answer Trfel's question to me - LS was not in my lynch list (and relative to the rest of the thread) because D1, similar to SOTW, if there's something that is not clicking I have to flesh his reads out. He was a scumlean based on the stuff he said, I hashed out to make sure I was understanding LS, and it was back to null pending the interactions with other people in the thread. There was a part where he mentioned Trfel casing Damdred (and I still have to go back and look at that, Christ) which would give some indication as to Trfel/Damdred/LS alignments to some extent. Obviously need to catch up on the rest of his filter. Not lynching him until I read and feel otherwise. Trfel, I mentioned a post where I scumleaned you initially for the comment you made on LS. I made an explanation as to why, it was something along the lines of tone and not wanting to take responsibility. There was something else that you mentioned, you answered it, but if you answered that first concern, show me the post where you did. There's a very good chance I missed it. Again, I failed to analyse you v Damdred. DYH over kush - It was part read on Trfel and part lack of followup on Trfel at that time when he commented on Shining/Palmar, which I felt could have come from either alignment. Also I wanted to press him for more reads, and I recall I did that somewhere. Obviously need to check his filter again and see what he's done since. I know I did not scumread him on activity especially since it's my first game with him and I don't know offhand if he's a lurky player. In any instance, I put both in a lynch list and I gave my reasons for not liking kush. Also I think it was you Trfel, whoever it was said that scum doesn't know the setup. This is not true. Look at the day one post. There is a list of 4 setups so that is part of where my statement came from. Additional comments/followups from what I saw from skimming the thread: Rels - posting game details has to be done regardless of whatever else games I'm playing. It either needed to be done when signups went up or very soon after. I was queued in, it had to get done. Take that as you will. Disformation - looking at your response to my last question right now, also did you have a question for me? You said a few times you were looking through my filter. Trfel - did you answer my questions regarding distinguishing activity between DYH and kush? (post 391, again if I missed it point it out) If you looked into Rels based on your last response to me, what did you think of him? (same deal if I missed it) Should hopefully be able to move forward after this. Let me see who is up for lynch and weigh in... 4. Trfel, DYH, Kush, Rels, Disfo - Ok. So she is putting Trfel and Disfo in pretty much all of her lists. By my above heuristic this makes one or both of them more likely to be mafia. However, take a look at her interactions with the people on her lists in her filter and see if any of them feel out of place compared to the others. Compared to her interactions with Trfel, Rels, Damdred and her suspicion of me and Kush, her interaction with Disfo is very bland, flat. She starts with vague scumlean but the rest of her interaction reads more like she is inviting him to interact with her for the sake of interacting. - I think the cross between these two methods is a pretty good reason to scumread Disfo. Please look into it yourselves. ##Vote: Disformation On December 07 2015 09:47 DoYouHas wrote: It is not about # of interactions. It is about who is out of place in the people HtS decided to list once you eliminate those confirmed as town. Her interaction with Trfel makes him very likely town. Damdred is confirmed town. Rels is likely town and her interaction with him is not out of place. Kush is confirmed town. I'm town. Also, her scumread on me was consistent and something that she came back to more than once. Then you said it was not quite as scum indicative as you initially thought: On December 07 2015 09:48 DoYouHas wrote: But you do bring up a good point. I need to look into this from your side of things. Will filter you after dinner stuff. On December 08 2015 14:17 DoYouHas wrote: Soooooo, my reason for townreading Trfel apparently is bad. It is association based on his interactions with HtS. I've been looking at his last scum game. If I was playing, I would never have picked up on anything odd between him and Breshke. So confused... This weakens my argument against Disfo as well, even if my initial assumption was true. ##Unvote My to-do before the deadline is to reread the cases on Trfel and Fid, read Fid's filter and decide the more likely scum. So: Your "initial instinct" on disfo was town; you only had him as scum after a HTS' list posts analysis, which you quickly said afterwards that it was not really valid. What reason did "initial instinct" refer to when you voted disfo at EOD3 in this post? On December 09 2015 07:55 DoYouHas wrote: Screw it, I'm going to trust my initial instinct. ##Vote: Disformation Shining, get on this wagon. Then, what was your reason to vote disfo again more than 24 hour later ? On December 10 2015 13:18 DoYouHas wrote: It has been a long ass day. I'm going to come back and actually read this tomorrow with non-exhausted eyes. ##Vote: Disfo See you all tomorrow. | ||
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On December 07 2015 09:48 DoYouHas wrote: But you do bring up a good point. I need to look into this from your side of things. Will filter you after dinner stuff. Didn't: On December 07 2015 13:11 DoYouHas wrote: Dinner stuff ran long. More case making delayed till tomorrow And on your next post 24 hours later unvoted him without saying anything about the content of his posts. On December 08 2015 14:17 DoYouHas wrote: Soooooo, my reason for townreading Trfel apparently is bad. It is association based on his interactions with HtS. I've been looking at his last scum game. If I was playing, I would never have picked up on anything odd between him and Breshke. So confused... This weakens my argument against Disfo as well, even if my initial assumption was true. ##Unvote My to-do before the deadline is to reread the cases on Trfel and Fid, read Fid's filter and decide the more likely scum. I have no idea what you mean by "going with my initial insctinct, ##vote disfo". | ||
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On December 01 2015 09:17 The Shining wrote: And what looks good about the rest of that post? It's a long post and the only thing I got from it is I'm scum, DYH questioning Rels is towny, but Rels is also towny off of some metaread, and everyone else is null. On December 01 2015 10:00 The Shining wrote: Rels is on the scumside of null for scumming both Damdred and DYH for wanting the named VT to claim(which I agree with, there's no reason not to), along with 0 townreads. @Shining I didn't post between these two posts. Do you remember what changed ? In particular, what is "some metaread" you're talking about ? | ||
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On December 03 2015 03:27 Fidei86 wrote: 16/26. The only reason not to policy lynch Onegu is that he will almost certainly be replaced for inactivity. I'm probably going to put my vote on Moosy once i finish my run through. He has been useless and I can't stand people who put keeping their own meta pure ahead of winning the f***ing game. Around that time, I was PMd by Onegu asking me if he could replace out of my game. This is a extremely weird coincidence. | ||
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On December 03 2015 04:44 Trfel wrote: I'm going to bring this up again. Please, hear me out, but I DO NOT WANT TO START A MECHANICS DISCUSSION. First, I will assume that the argument that Rels presents about the BoxeR claiming is 100% correct. No matter what. No questions asked. Just for the purpose of this argument. With this assumption, and two people telling the BoxeR to claim, it's important for this argument to be made as quickly as possible so that the BoxeR can see it and not claim. The thing is, Rels presents a really well-explained argument for this. It kind of feels too good to be true. He's already stopped to analyze the setups from a mafia perspective, and see what they know, and see what town knows. He's 100% sure that mafia doesn't know which setup the game uses, despite the standard Blazinghand newbie game using a similar four-option setup where the mafia team IS told the setup. Like, I know that Rels is good. But is he really this good? His first post of the game, 37 minutes after the day began.... It doesn't feel quite right. <3 | ||
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On December 11 2015 23:59 disformation wrote: Hm. Isn't that out of game information? Yep. | ||
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On December 12 2015 00:13 disformation wrote: Was looking at a few filter, but not really seeing anything new... FF actually had a bunch of posts on Fidei86, like: So he was pushing Fidei86 a bit. Though again: no real interactions imo... Yep that's true FF attacked fidei with arguments not said by someone else, which is super unlikely for partners. | ||
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On December 12 2015 00:34 LightningStrike wrote: Okay I will see if that actually lines up. Sure, can you vote DYH afterwards ? | ||
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Townie guide to winning this game Step 1: Required reading disfo's case on DYH FF's interactions with DYH are partner indicative DYH's scumread of disfo has no basis: he voted him on an "initial insctinct" which doesn't exist Part 2 of the thing above Step 2: Vote DYH Step 3: Lynch DYH Step 4: Win | ||
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On December 12 2015 00:59 LightningStrike wrote: 1. Okay... 2. He said he didn't like some stuff from you(was very vague) hence why he voted for you. 3. And that's why assiocation reads are generally not that great Anyways I could possibly vote DYH but the wagon buildpotentally troubling. I'll weigh the options in a little bit. How is it troubling ? And more generally, how could a wagon building be potentially troubling when there is only one scum alive ? | ||
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On December 12 2015 01:07 LightningStrike wrote: Sometimes when a wagon builds up pretty fast then something is generally wrong but that just from my experience. I will filter dive dis vs DYH since both of them seem to be the main lynches as far I could tell so I'll do that. Do you think 2 votes in 41 hours is pretty fast ? | ||
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On December 12 2015 01:13 LightningStrike wrote: I mean each time people tried to lynch DYh the votes come in a little fast in the past day phases(at least if i remember how fast people voted then unvoted him) Anyways the way talked about FF didn't much talk at all and seemed to distanced himself from him. Now going to dis's filter. Man it's time like this I realize I didn't make any vote recaps. Because I'm super sure you're wrong; I could never get this guy lynched ever. Will do this quickly. | ||
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On December 04 2015 09:40 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Half the Sky On December 04 2015 09:42 Fecalfeast wrote: ##vote halfthesky | ||
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Day 1 recap + Show Spoiler + kushm4sta (7): LightningStrike (4): MoosyDoosy (0): Rels (0): The Shining (0): DoYouHas (0): Trfel (0): Fidei86 (0): Half the Sky (0): Trfel (0): Not Voting (2): MoosyDoosy, Onegu Day 2 recap + Show Spoiler + Half the Sky (9): NocturneMage, DoYouHas, FecalFeast, Rels, Trfel, Fidei86, Palmar, The Shining, LightningStrike DoYouHas (1): disformation NocturneMage (1): Half the Sky Day 3 recap + Show Spoiler + FecalFeast (3): Trfel, The Shining, disformation Trfel (3): NocturneMage, FecalFeast, Rels LightningStrike (1): Fidei86, Fidei86 (1): disformation (1): DoYouHas DoYouHas (0): Rels (0): NocturneMage (0): disformation (0): | ||
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On December 04 2015 09:43 Fecalfeast wrote: Let's just wagon HTS since her going completely silent the moment her hubby shows up in the game makes me pause. I get that she's sick (get well soon) but trfel's weirdness has made me second guess how much I agree with his scumread on NM. Here is FF post after voting HTS, 1h40 after the deadline. I didn't realize it; I actually thought FF tried to put suspicions on other people that day. Him voting her this early definitely mean it was a prepared bus. The last scum has to be NM or DYH. | ||
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Let me get home and I'll slap both of you. Or lynch you if one of you is scummy. Reading from phone, fidei s read seemed logical while nm seemed opportunistic, especially since he's dropping his suspicion on both dyh and disfo after saying dyh s answer was weird. Nothing bought against me is scum indicative except the random Hts vote. Well, I can assure you that if I was scum, I would never have a non explained vote like that. Fidei, the rest of your post is poe and fear, which btw seemed to have been caused by a casual nm question on my scum abilities. Nm, you seemed to be over explaining to me. Will have to reread when I am on a PC. | ||
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On December 12 2015 02:39 NocturneMage wrote: I'm not going insane, am I? I'm sober now, I was drunk last night phase, but.... So what ? When DYH voted disfo, you were already there; and when he switched to me, he was the only one on disfo. Do you still believe it's a good point ? Can you write it with your own words if you understand it ? | ||
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On December 12 2015 03:09 NocturneMage wrote: There was a decent sequence between him and Damdred that seemed okay-ish or at least fleshed out. It seemed based on a lot of meta but I don't think that's mafia indicative for Rels. I think this becomes more mafia indicative depending on how his end of cycle was. I could agree with the DYH vote the time it was made, policy vote announcements are not really alignment indicative. He's got two lynches here, a scumlean in Fidei resumably. Not thinking this is mafia indicative. Don't think this post is a good one at all to scumread DYH now that I think of it. Whart are the compositions of the towns? Was he vigged? I'm not looking at through those games, but these conclusions don't address those circumstances. Circumstantial at best. If he's making an argument that DYH is trying to break meta (this is possible) he has to weight that against his current gameplay. I've been 50/50 on DYH gameplay at worst. I'm saying it looks like DYH is a strong town, not getting mislynched and getting killed multiple times; but getting lynched in his most recent mafia games. There is no "break meta", I don't know how you could imagine it. | ||
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On December 12 2015 03:28 NocturneMage wrote: This could be potentially mafia indicative if DYH is lynched and flips town. I know I'm town and Damdred/Palmar have since flipped. In his defence, Palmar's end of cycle was bad. though. This is just really.....IDK. He was townreading her hard based on end of cycle, and DYH and I were leading the lynch. I'm about halfway through Rels' filter. I'm voting him for now. But I'm going to try and come back roughly 30-45 or whatever and pick up on things or if something jumps at me one way or another. On a re-read and refocus there are a few things I don't see and a few things that are creating doubt. The two minute time gap is too small between disformation's vote on FF and his vote on Trfel, but at the same time there was no telling if someone else could have potentially hammered Trfel. This is where I might be willing to buy into LS's theory of scum possibly screwing this up. From the things you quoted, I don't understand why you are voting me. Last scum is either you or DYH anyway, so the game is won. | ||
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On December 12 2015 05:30 The Shining wrote: Hm. Is this someone truly fighting to get DYH lynched and believing his own scumread? I mean RL stuff is RL stuff but giving an afk excuse is pretty lousy. How later is later? Before EoD? After EoD? Meh. When I'm not being lynched. I'm watching a movie with my gf, but I'll post if its needed to not be lynched. | ||
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Everything you said is wrong and can be proven wrong. Whatever. | ||
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On December 12 2015 06:26 The Shining wrote: I know something that cant be proven wrong. Part of your DYH case refers to FFs interactions and lack of reads on DYH. I bet you'd never guess who else he almost literally never mentions in his filter. I think I can guess it. Does he mention you too ? | ||
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On December 12 2015 06:26 The Shining wrote: I know something that cant be proven wrong. Part of your DYH case refers to FFs interactions and lack of reads on DYH. I bet you'd never guess who else he almost literally never mentions in his filter. The most important thing is how ff ask three people to expand his read on dyh. This is the big thing | ||
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On December 12 2015 06:33 The Shining wrote: He tried to pin the Kush mislynch on me like HtS did. A few times. Kinda spewed me town there lol He tried to attack fidei for that. Why was dyh scumreading disfo and why did he vote him at deadline ? | ||
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On December 12 2015 06:41 The Shining wrote: Right but one post you used is actually quite telling about DYH's alignment. He had DYH as town and needed a reason to backtrack on that to ML if need be. One post, FF said "lets say HTS flips red here. What does that make you think of DYH?" I don't think I've ever seen scum mention his entire team in a post like that. The way that post read, its like he wanted someone to imply HTS flipping red implicates DYH flipping red, too. That's suicide as a scumteam, especially now that FF flipped, too. It's like the Kush thing. If he can be convinced like HtS to vote because someone else lead it, and vote DYH, he can absolve himslef of blame for the mislynch. Can you quote it ? | ||
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This one | ||
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Ff is already busing here. The question is extremely partner indicative | ||
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On December 12 2015 06:57 The Shining wrote: Its interesting you'd ask me to quote that post when you used it in your DYH case... Watching a movie bro | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:07 DoYouHas wrote: I'm here. Anything you all want me to clear up? Scummy entrance. Hts entered he thread the same way during d1. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:11 DoYouHas wrote: I looked into Fid and Trfel. Fid felt like a bad lynch, Trfel felt like it could go either way. I still had my suspicion on Disfo from my earlier case, even though I didn't feel like the back half of it was as solid. Voted the person I thought was most likely to flip scum out of the possibilities, also thought Shining would join me and bring at least 1 other with him. And why did you vote him start of D4 ? You never read his filter, you never scumread him for something he directly did. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:14 DoYouHas wrote: So I just stuck with where my head was at when I had last looked at the game. Your filter dive had him as town at EOD1 and during D2. It was only a HTS' filter analysis that put him as scum. You never filter dove him (when you said you would BTW) and just went for him. | ||
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DYH why are you voting me ? | ||
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On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: Actually Rels tried to get people onto Trfel at :59 and voted him after FF got the lead. With a hasty rushed "Let's go Trfel" After saying let's lynch DYH, he showed up 30 mins before deadline. He also said Trfel, FF and I all did the same thing. But he chose Trfel to push. I was suspicious of Trfel the whole day. On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: After being willing to sheep me on Disfo today but now he's back to sheeping Disfo on DYH. I never moved from DYH. [QUOTE]On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: Says voting FF is a possibility but pure yolo. But dude voted Trfel.[/QUOTE See above. [QUOTE]On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: He also made a post before that one saying FF could be scum and if that's the case, likely partner is DYH. TMI? This was before FF was the lynch. But he voted Trfel over FF, while thinking FF could be scum. If FF could be scum, why did he vote Trfel? And why call it a yolo move if he thought he could be scum?[/QUOTE] See above. [QUOTE]On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: Trfel also voted Rels before he went on FF. Trfel is dead now. And I think I'm seeing what Trfel saw in Rels filter. I'm pretty sure I'm voting Rels.[/QUOTE] What do you think he saw ? | ||
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On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: Actually Rels tried to get people onto Trfel at :59 and voted him after FF got the lead. With a hasty rushed "Let's go Trfel" After saying let's lynch DYH, he showed up 30 mins before deadline. He also said Trfel, FF and I all did the same thing. But he chose Trfel to push. I was suspicious of Trfel the whole day. On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: After being willing to sheep me on Disfo today but now he's back to sheeping Disfo on DYH. I never moved from DYH. On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: Says voting FF is a possibility but pure yolo. But dude voted Trfel. See above. On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: He also made a post before that one saying FF could be scum and if that's the case, likely partner is DYH. TMI? This was before FF was the lynch. But he voted Trfel over FF, while thinking FF could be scum. If FF could be scum, why did he vote Trfel? And why call it a yolo move if he thought he could be scum? See above. On December 12 2015 06:16 The Shining wrote: Trfel also voted Rels before he went on FF. Trfel is dead now. And I think I'm seeing what Trfel saw in Rels filter. I'm pretty sure I'm voting Rels. What do you think he saw ? | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:19 The Shining wrote: You just sent me to go find a post in a 27 page Koshi filter. But looking at FFs filter there(i was reading that game, knowing he rolled scum was part of why I scummed him for being unmotivated this game), im not sure I see it. He directly spoke to Chrom and even voted him. He didn't do any of that on DYH here. There he spoke to Chrom. Here he spoke about DYH. But he did neither for you. Its not a good heuristic to go by to read either of you. On December 06 2015 10:17 Koshi wrote: fefe is also really focussed on Chrome. Always says "nice read on Chrome, figure more stuff out" but never helps. From reading fefe filter a couple times I think GB and OO are in the clear. Would be nice if the paranoia train people would actually read some fucking filters. Start with fefe and Scott. And tell mewhat you think. On December 06 2015 11:37 Koshi wrote: The biggest fucking boner from Chrom. Literally if anybody said anything about Chrom fefe jumped on it. This is what I mean. | ||
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Yep or NM. Shining, I have him at confirmed town 'cause Damdred said so + him voting FF. LS is town. disfo's tone is too relax for me to believe he's scum. Still have doubts on you though. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:23 DoYouHas wrote: My reasons haven't changed, I could expand them for you if you like but that will take up a good bit of time for me to go through your filter again. Your reasons was pushing exclusively townies + NK analysis. Yes, I would like for you to expand on how is it scum indicative. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:26 The Shining wrote: You think he'd do the same thing in back to back scum games? From what I read, it doesn't seem as pronounced here as it was there. It's equally plausible that because he did that last game, he'd completely ignore his partners this game. Ugh. One of you is scum and I want to be on the right wagon. What do NM is confirmed town in your mind ??? | ||
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On December 09 2015 07:56 The Shining wrote: Honestly I'm voting fecal and I think I should be sheeped regardless of those not TRing trfel. It was also brought up that ppl don't want to take LS to lylo Why would you want to take ff to lylo then? For a moment I had suspicions on you. Please stop being dumb. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:29 The Shining wrote: This is kinda bad but does scum admit this in thread. Hoping I'd move off of FF and bring another with me would've gotten disfo lynched and also saves FF...but again...does scum admit this in thread? My head hurts. "does scum say the answer that make them look town" Mm ... I'm gonna go with yes | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:26 The Shining wrote: You think he'd do the same thing in back to back scum games? From what I read, it doesn't seem as pronounced here as it was there. It's equally plausible that because he did that last game, he'd completely ignore his partners this game. Ugh. One of you is scum and I want to be on the right wagon. What do He didn't treat them the same; I'm only talking about how he talks about them to others. No reads; just "what do you think of XXX". He bused Chrom on my game, he bused HTS in here. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:30 The Shining wrote: No. We have 3 mislynches and I've accepted disfo as town. Rels/NM/DYH win this game for town. I'm just trying to figure out the order, particularly if I get shot tonight. As long as DYH gets lynched I will die happy (= | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:35 NocturneMage wrote: mobile, catching up. but I'm here. Just letting you know that if you're town, you're dumb. If you're mafia, you're toasted by that opportunistic vote. Either way you're bad =D | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:03 The Shining wrote: I understand you're busy and whatnot but you know you and I have shitfought over our alignments in past games right? This unconcerned tone while being lynched is pretty offsetting to me. Like how does this come from town fighting to lynch scum and fighting off a mislynch? "but now that you are on a comp fighting for your life I will get back to my other reasons to lynch you" | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:39 The Shining wrote: This isn't that fair because your vote on Trfel when FF was lynched was arguably just as bad or worse =/ No. It's only bad 'cause Trfel was town and FF scum. He asked a casual "mm is Rels good at scum ?", fidei said "YES THATS TRUE", and he filter picked everything he found until he voted me, despite calling DYH out earlier on his vote on me. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:40 NocturneMage wrote: the only thing that jumps at me is voting disformation in the event that disformation is town but that's unflipped association. what | ||
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can you expand | ||
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'cause if disfo is town, DYH is mafia by your analysis if disfo is mafia, well he's mafia so you should be voting one of them | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:45 NocturneMage wrote: this is what I mean rels. off wagon, solo vote. this is regarding dyh. If it's bad if disfo is town, you should lynch DYH, then disfo if DYH flips town | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:44 The Shining wrote: This is bad but here's my main issue. We lynch DYH today and say he flips town. That's one Rels voter dead. Fidei or I get shot tonight. NM Will live because he is the other Trfel voter and subject to suspicion. LS Disfo and Rels obvs won't lynch Rels. Rels survives and if he's scum wins the game. Opposite scenario. Lynch Rels. If he does flip town, Disfo will still try to get DYH lynched and I think he gets more support than anyone could VS Rels. I'm trying to figure out which is the better scenario for town to win if we mislynch today Nobody is here during 48 hours, but then everybody is thinking about stuff when it's time for deadline Only disfo was here today. If he's scum he deserves the win; never lynch him | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:50 The Shining wrote: This feela like possible distancing/TMI about DYH. Tempted to lynch DYH and NM if he flips town now, ugh. mm then do it | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:50 NocturneMage wrote: sigh that was from a poe standpoint. we don't know and dyh was on him for awhile. like I said last cycle I really feel someone is quite active or throwing us off track and my mind is spinning going through your filter. Mm then you should have used the 48 hours to reread the game. That's what I did and I ended with DYH as scum, possible NM, maybe Fidei. You started throwing suspicions around 3h30 before deadline, when I told HTS I wasn't available tonight. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:52 The Shining wrote: Is DYH still even here anymore? Disappeared when I asked him about his expanded reasons to scumread me. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:52 Fidei86 wrote: Ugh I want to move to DYH mostly because Rels is here and is confused which is townie. Shining guide me. mm then do it | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:53 Fidei86 wrote: Or NM. But nobody else is on him? DYH is muuuuuuuuuuuch more likely | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:53 Fidei86 wrote: Rels convince me you're town bro go If I was scum I wouldn't switch my votes withtout a solid reasonning If I was scum I wouldn't shoot my scumreads (Damdred Palmar) | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:55 Fidei86 wrote: Sold. Doing this for old times sake. Cool drink for me bro. | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:55 Fidei86 wrote: I don't think it's DYH why isn't it Nm 'cause DYH is scummier. What is his scumreads since the HTS thing ? | ||
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On December 12 2015 07:58 Fidei86 wrote: Vote: NocturneMage It's not what I expected bro | ||
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On December 15 2015 08:08 DoYouHas wrote: Sorry for lynching you. I was a pretty easy person to tunnel this game. My bad. You were the most right person in the game. | ||
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On December 15 2015 19:05 Fidei86 wrote: GG wp team. All my reads were wrong, but at least I got town read. For those wondering, I held my shot because a mis-shoot would send town to a 3-1 LYLO, which is massively disadvantageous. The only two shots I seriously considered were HTS on N1 and LS on N4. Yep I agree with you holding the shot. Would you have claim if you weren't shot ? 'cause you had to IMO, if you were still alive and claimed at LYLO or MYLO nobody would have believe you. | ||
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On December 15 2015 19:32 Fidei86 wrote: Yeah, my plan was to claim at LYLO-1, which was the day after I got shot. That would have given enough time to lynch me and a counter-claimant. Although, you know, that reasoning doesn't hold in the abstract because if there was no CC, I would have to just be idiot blue. If there was a CC, you would have to ask why that claimant hadn't claimed earlier either. No it's the absolute correct play; if you don't claim and scum counted on you to be one of his two mislynches, you claiming at LYLO-1 destroys his plan of lynching you, but he cannot counter claim either. WP on your HTS' read (= | ||
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On December 15 2015 22:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I was also completely puzzled over the fact that when you and DYH lead a lynch on mafia HtS the town decides that at least one of you MUST BE MAFIA!!! Hehe (= TBF busing was the correct play. HTS said exactly that to her teammates, that they should bus her as soon as she saw the first post from NM (not even the case), and that is what FF did (voted 1h40 after the start of D2). | ||
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On December 15 2015 22:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Except the difference is NM and DYH had actual cases on HtS. Everyone else were mostly sheeping. That looks town on them, and not town on anyone else. The least for disinformation who refused to vote for HtS and whose interactions with HtS were, as he himself put it later (lol) "i think the correct play for scum is to not ignore their teammates". When you looked at disinformation's interactions with HtS he had her always as a "suspect" but was never really interested in actually calling her mafia or figuring out her alignment. Noone noticed this except for Shining (maybe DYH did, i am not sure? -- i didn't read very closely after D1). Yep that is true. I tunneled DYH into a scum narrative that I never got out of. But I disagree with town playing bad. I was the worst of everyone (being wrong on everyone but being loud about it); but Fidei and LS were super townie, NM questionned everything which prevented a DYH lynch, Shining and DYH solved the game ... there was enough activity to force the scums to be discovered. | ||
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On December 15 2015 22:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: I never said town played bad, because they didn't. Alot of people looked really town from the beginning. When i stopped reading properly i had scumreads on Rels/kushmasta/Onegu/HtS. I wouldn't blame anyone for lynching kush since he has the same problem Onegu does, he just doesn't play -- and no matter how good/bad his reads are when you don't give a fuck you get lynched, period. You seemed really scummy because in my opinion DYH was one of the most towniest people in the game and your case on him was basically "well i read these filters and DYH doesn't look as town as he did in his town games" ?????? What the hell is that? That's not even a scumread.Haha I was kinda proud of that post though =D | ||
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On December 02 2015 01:47 Rels wrote: Don't dare being scum with this chatty tone. That would break my heart </3 TBF reading the scum QT you seem to have suffered a lot more than I did ... | ||
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will log in and wait for you all | ||
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