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On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Fidei's scumlean is bad. No one but disfo and Trfel had posted at the time of my posts and I poked fun at the fact that throughout the history of my playing on TL, I don't normally play on Mondays and Tuesdays. Which is why I "went quiet." I don't normally have time to play on these days and I'll be out of here once again shortly.
Fidei calling you out on something you actually did doesn't make him mafia. If you're town you should be considering, and possibly favoring, the option that he's just a townie with a wrong scumlean. Nothing he said was false. He literally took true information and made a lean on it. That's the most null thing you can do in mafia.
On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Palmar is bad for commenting on literally nothing up to this point but claiming I'm 100% scum. There are actual things going on in the thread but he's just trying to pick up off of Fidei's soft pushing on me to get me lynched. Out of Fidei and Palmar, Palmar is the worst looking one.
I hadn't even read Fidei's post, I just came into the game, read the first page, then posted "Shining is 100% scum", turns out I mostly agree with Fidei, so free townread in the process!
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On December 01 2015 09:17 The Shining wrote:
Literally 4 posts at the time of mine but I'm expected to come up with some magic reads other than talking about what was actually posted? That's just trying to discredit me for BS and I know my alignment so what may look good to you, Palmar, is absolutely trash to me.
And what looks good about the rest of that post? It's a long post and the only thing I got from it is I'm scum, DYH questioning Rels is towny, but Rels is also towny off of some metaread, and everyone else is null. It's an unneccessarily long and hard to read post for minimal reads when his first paragraph asks for no spam, presumably to make the game easier to read. Counter-intuitive.
You gonna play hardball?
Okay, we can play hardball.
I read the first page, and your posts stood out like a sore thumb. It was very, very obvious you had no intention of actually moving discussion along. You posted for the sake of posting. I didn't expect you to come up with reads, I just expected you to say something that wasn't so clearly just to post. If you were actually genuinely interested in the youtube video thing you talked about you'd have said something more about it.
I didn't say it was particularly good, I said it was fine. He made some statements, threw out some reads and did it in a sort of casual manner. He didn't force out any opinions that he clearly doesn't have (like you're doing with him and me at the moment). It was just a fine opening post that gives no reason to call him mafia.
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On December 01 2015 09:16 Damdred wrote:
Why is Palmar the worse looking one exactly though?
Because there is no explanation for his read whatsoever. Fidei scumleans me so 3 minutes later, Palmar decides I'm 100% scum with no explanation.
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On December 01 2015 09:21 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:16 Damdred wrote:
Why is Palmar the worse looking one exactly though? Because there is no explanation for his read whatsoever. Fidei scumleans me so 3 minutes later, Palmar decides I'm 100% scum with no explanation.
Well now you have the explanation so I'm 100% town right?
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On December 01 2015 09:21 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:16 Damdred wrote:
Why is Palmar the worse looking one exactly though? Because there is no explanation for his read whatsoever. Fidei scumleans me so 3 minutes later, Palmar decides I'm 100% scum with no explanation.
I thought you had played with palmar before?
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On December 01 2015 09:17 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Fidei's scumlean is bad. No one but disfo and Trfel had posted at the time of my posts and I poked fun at the fact that throughout the history of my playing on TL, I don't normally play on Mondays and Tuesdays. Which is why I "went quiet." I don't normally have time to play on these days and I'll be out of here once again shortly. Fidei calling you out on something you actually did doesn't make him mafia. If you're town you should be considering, and possibly favoring, the option that he's just a townie with a wrong scumlean. Nothing he said was false. He literally took true information and made a lean on it. That's the most null thing you can do in mafia. Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Palmar is bad for commenting on literally nothing up to this point but claiming I'm 100% scum. There are actual things going on in the thread but he's just trying to pick up off of Fidei's soft pushing on me to get me lynched. Out of Fidei and Palmar, Palmar is the worst looking one. I hadn't even read Fidei's post, I just came into the game, read the first page, then posted "Shining is 100% scum", turns out I mostly agree with Fidei, so free townread in the process!
His expectations are unreal of me if he is town. He said I went quiet and yet here I am so I'm interested if his lean now goes away or if it becomes a hard scumread because I scumread him. Like there were actual things happening, like Damdred's big post directing blues, Rels finding DYH and Damdred suspicious, but his scumlean comes off on the one person who he probably expected to afk because it's Monday/Tuesday and who didn't say much of anything. And in the same post, he goes ahead and leaves the thread when he enters it.
Your hard defense of Fidei so early is noted, though.
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On December 01 2015 09:27 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:17 Palmar wrote:On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Fidei's scumlean is bad. No one but disfo and Trfel had posted at the time of my posts and I poked fun at the fact that throughout the history of my playing on TL, I don't normally play on Mondays and Tuesdays. Which is why I "went quiet." I don't normally have time to play on these days and I'll be out of here once again shortly. Fidei calling you out on something you actually did doesn't make him mafia. If you're town you should be considering, and possibly favoring, the option that he's just a townie with a wrong scumlean. Nothing he said was false. He literally took true information and made a lean on it. That's the most null thing you can do in mafia. On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Palmar is bad for commenting on literally nothing up to this point but claiming I'm 100% scum. There are actual things going on in the thread but he's just trying to pick up off of Fidei's soft pushing on me to get me lynched. Out of Fidei and Palmar, Palmar is the worst looking one. I hadn't even read Fidei's post, I just came into the game, read the first page, then posted "Shining is 100% scum", turns out I mostly agree with Fidei, so free townread in the process! His expectations are unreal of me if he is town. He said I went quiet and yet here I am so I'm interested if his lean now goes away or if it becomes a hard scumread because I scumread him. Like there were actual things happening, like Damdred's big post directing blues, Rels finding DYH and Damdred suspicious, but his scumlean comes off on the one person who he probably expected to afk because it's Monday/Tuesday and who didn't say much of anything. And in the same post, he goes ahead and leaves the thread when he enters it. Your hard defense of Fidei so early is noted, though.
Well, you went quiet and then suddenly popped out when two people called you scum...
Plus your are going quite the OMGUS + hard defense mode. Def. not a fan so far, kinda remember better post from you last game. 
@Damdred:
So you are saying that the post is constructed since you took quite some time writing it up, but started after the game started?
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On December 01 2015 09:21 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:17 The Shining wrote:
Literally 4 posts at the time of mine but I'm expected to come up with some magic reads other than talking about what was actually posted? That's just trying to discredit me for BS and I know my alignment so what may look good to you, Palmar, is absolutely trash to me.
And what looks good about the rest of that post? It's a long post and the only thing I got from it is I'm scum, DYH questioning Rels is towny, but Rels is also towny off of some metaread, and everyone else is null. It's an unneccessarily long and hard to read post for minimal reads when his first paragraph asks for no spam, presumably to make the game easier to read. Counter-intuitive. You gonna play hardball? Okay, we can play hardball. I read the first page, and your posts stood out like a sore thumb. It was very, very obvious you had no intention of actually moving discussion along. You posted for the sake of posting. I didn't expect you to come up with reads, I just expected you to say something that wasn't so clearly just to post. If you were actually genuinely interested in the youtube video thing you talked about you'd have said something more about it. I didn't say it was particularly good, I said it was fine. He made some statements, threw out some reads and did it in a sort of casual manner. He didn't force out any opinions that he clearly doesn't have (like you're doing with him and me at the moment). It was just a fine opening post that gives no reason to call him mafia.
Meh I was bored and knew the game started. So I made a joke post and asked a useless question about a post because no one else was posting and I'm not one to move along discussion on D1. Never have been, never will be. But scumreading me for that will totally pique my interest.
What's fine to you is not fine to me, so w.e. I already explained that it was long for no reason, only had 3 reads in it and lumped everyone else as null, and was an entrance and exit in the same post. It read to me as an attempt to look productive and scum me in the process, then get out of thread as quickly as possible. I'm not forcing and making up opinions here when I'm obviously here explaining them.
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Hey everyone.
A few thoughts on my end before I head to bed -
Nulls on Rels/Damdred regarding setup discussion/speculation as I feel those are types of posts that can be made as either alignment (and such Rels' scumreads on Do and Damdred could also fall under the same category) by players who know general gameplay well enough.
Trfel's comments on LS I have a mixed reaction on. I don't like the following phrasing and here's why:
Second, why would does this make me mafia in any way? Like, why does the fact that LightningStrike posted that he wouldn't be here at the start of the game have any bearing on my alignment?
When I read this, I read it as trying to absolve responsibility from self regardless of actual intention (baiting in this case) - it's not what LS posted that is the problem, it's what you (Trfel) did about it. That reaction makes me think whether you are trying to cover something up.
Moosy is something I am going to need more time reading given his general playstyle. No read on him so far obviously.
disformation hasn't made any reads yets with the Trfel/Damdred interaction going on, and I think that might have been about when he left the thread. Answered Trfel's question, but from recalling the last student game, he did take more stances in that game.
So far probable scumleans on Trfel/disformation.
Fidei was someone who falls off hard as mafia, first post based on his SOTW 2 performance (mafia) is going to weigh in at NAI. The ONLY thing that jumps out at me from Fidei's post is why he commented on Rels being towny but Damdred not being so even though both talked about the setup, and Damdred seems to make more of a point in trying to get town to coalesence.
Moving to Palmar/Shining...
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On December 01 2015 09:23 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:21 The Shining wrote:On December 01 2015 09:16 Damdred wrote:
Why is Palmar the worse looking one exactly though? Because there is no explanation for his read whatsoever. Fidei scumleans me so 3 minutes later, Palmar decides I'm 100% scum with no explanation. Well now you have the explanation so I'm 100% town right?
No more like 70% and just really bad and cocky. I can understand where your scumread on me comes from, especially since I OMGUSd you but your defense of Fidei to me looks really suspect when you only share one scumlean on D1 and you shouldn't have any idea what his alignment is if you're town.
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Like I'll try to describe what I mean here:
On December 01 2015 08:07 The Shining wrote:
Ohaithere
A Monday start. Why am I here?
This post is sort of fine. It's not a good entrance as it's clearly not saying anything, and the Ohaithere feels forced although I'd have to crosscheck other games if Shining just talks like this or if the overly casual mixing of words is actually alignment indicative of him. But I would never call him mafia based on this post.
The next post however:
On December 01 2015 08:09 The Shining wrote:
Why would you post it before listening to it? D=
This is what lead me to say "he's 100% mafia". I may be exaggerating a bit, but still. The point is that disformation and Trfel are having what tonally to me feels like a perfectly casual conversation, and Shining decides to sort of... butt in... to the conversation. I don't really mind that if he actually cares, ie: he wants to take part in whatever it is they're talking about. But clearly he has no interest in it, he just butted in to do... nothing?
This looks very alarming to me, because that post can easily be seen as made for no other reason than to write a post. Every other post in that page I can tell the motivation behind, but this one I can not.
Then the third post, pages later, after fidei and I both called him out on the opening:
On December 01 2015 09:08 The Shining wrote:I just need one more person and I have my scum team 
This is the weakest OMGUS in the universe. First of all, the smiley at the end there shows he doesn't really want to commit to this. The post can be taken both as a joke and serious at the time. Also, no one in the universe actually believes that two people calling someone possibly mafia within 3 minutes somehow makes them a mafia team. It's really, really dumb.
I refuse to believe Shining believes what he's saying, so I am assuming it is some sort of a joke, but it doesn't matter, I'm of course gonna keep the pressure on. And here we go:
On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Fidei's scumlean is bad. No one but disfo and Trfel had posted at the time of my posts and I poked fun at the fact that throughout the history of my playing on TL, I don't normally play on Mondays and Tuesdays. Which is why I "went quiet." I don't normally have time to play on these days and I'll be out of here once again shortly.
Palmar is bad for commenting on literally nothing up to this point but claiming I'm 100% scum. There are actual things going on in the thread but he's just trying to pick up off of Fidei's soft pushing on me to get me lynched. Out of Fidei and Palmar, Palmar is the worst looking one.
He actually doubles down on that retarded read (ie: both of us are mafia) and tries to legitimize it. It's terrible and it makes him mafia every time.
I'm convinced.
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On December 01 2015 09:30 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:27 The Shining wrote:On December 01 2015 09:17 Palmar wrote:On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Fidei's scumlean is bad. No one but disfo and Trfel had posted at the time of my posts and I poked fun at the fact that throughout the history of my playing on TL, I don't normally play on Mondays and Tuesdays. Which is why I "went quiet." I don't normally have time to play on these days and I'll be out of here once again shortly. Fidei calling you out on something you actually did doesn't make him mafia. If you're town you should be considering, and possibly favoring, the option that he's just a townie with a wrong scumlean. Nothing he said was false. He literally took true information and made a lean on it. That's the most null thing you can do in mafia. On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Palmar is bad for commenting on literally nothing up to this point but claiming I'm 100% scum. There are actual things going on in the thread but he's just trying to pick up off of Fidei's soft pushing on me to get me lynched. Out of Fidei and Palmar, Palmar is the worst looking one. I hadn't even read Fidei's post, I just came into the game, read the first page, then posted "Shining is 100% scum", turns out I mostly agree with Fidei, so free townread in the process! His expectations are unreal of me if he is town. He said I went quiet and yet here I am so I'm interested if his lean now goes away or if it becomes a hard scumread because I scumread him. Like there were actual things happening, like Damdred's big post directing blues, Rels finding DYH and Damdred suspicious, but his scumlean comes off on the one person who he probably expected to afk because it's Monday/Tuesday and who didn't say much of anything. And in the same post, he goes ahead and leaves the thread when he enters it. Your hard defense of Fidei so early is noted, though. Well, you went quiet and then suddenly popped out when two people called you scum... Plus your are going quite the OMGUS + hard defense mode. Def. not a fan so far, kinda remember better post from you last game. @Damdred: So you are saying that the post is constructed since you took quite some time writing it up, but started after the game started?
My wife was dropped off at work at 6:01 pm eastern time, my post was posted 3-5 minutes after I returned home. I wrote it in those 3-5 minutes.
I'm not exactly sure where you are going with this.
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On December 01 2015 09:24 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:21 The Shining wrote:On December 01 2015 09:16 Damdred wrote:
Why is Palmar the worse looking one exactly though? Because there is no explanation for his read whatsoever. Fidei scumleans me so 3 minutes later, Palmar decides I'm 100% scum with no explanation. I thought you had played with palmar before?
My bro!
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On December 01 2015 09:30 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:27 The Shining wrote:On December 01 2015 09:17 Palmar wrote:On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Fidei's scumlean is bad. No one but disfo and Trfel had posted at the time of my posts and I poked fun at the fact that throughout the history of my playing on TL, I don't normally play on Mondays and Tuesdays. Which is why I "went quiet." I don't normally have time to play on these days and I'll be out of here once again shortly. Fidei calling you out on something you actually did doesn't make him mafia. If you're town you should be considering, and possibly favoring, the option that he's just a townie with a wrong scumlean. Nothing he said was false. He literally took true information and made a lean on it. That's the most null thing you can do in mafia. On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Palmar is bad for commenting on literally nothing up to this point but claiming I'm 100% scum. There are actual things going on in the thread but he's just trying to pick up off of Fidei's soft pushing on me to get me lynched. Out of Fidei and Palmar, Palmar is the worst looking one. I hadn't even read Fidei's post, I just came into the game, read the first page, then posted "Shining is 100% scum", turns out I mostly agree with Fidei, so free townread in the process! His expectations are unreal of me if he is town. He said I went quiet and yet here I am so I'm interested if his lean now goes away or if it becomes a hard scumread because I scumread him. Like there were actual things happening, like Damdred's big post directing blues, Rels finding DYH and Damdred suspicious, but his scumlean comes off on the one person who he probably expected to afk because it's Monday/Tuesday and who didn't say much of anything. And in the same post, he goes ahead and leaves the thread when he enters it. Your hard defense of Fidei so early is noted, though. Well, you went quiet and then suddenly popped out when two people called you scum... Plus your are going quite the OMGUS + hard defense mode. Def. not a fan so far, kinda remember better post from you last game. @Damdred: So you are saying that the post is constructed since you took quite some time writing it up, but started after the game started?
And ninjaed. Any thoughts on the actual exchange?
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On December 01 2015 09:24 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:21 The Shining wrote:On December 01 2015 09:16 Damdred wrote:
Why is Palmar the worse looking one exactly though? Because there is no explanation for his read whatsoever. Fidei scumleans me so 3 minutes later, Palmar decides I'm 100% scum with no explanation. I thought you had played with palmar before?
Only time I ever remember playing with him was when he replaced in and didn't do jack shyt after replacing and even though I cased JJB for the win, Trfel still lost the game in lylo. So not really.
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On December 01 2015 09:32 The Shining wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2015 09:23 Palmar wrote:On December 01 2015 09:21 The Shining wrote:On December 01 2015 09:16 Damdred wrote:
Why is Palmar the worse looking one exactly though? Because there is no explanation for his read whatsoever. Fidei scumleans me so 3 minutes later, Palmar decides I'm 100% scum with no explanation. Well now you have the explanation so I'm 100% town right? No more like 70% and just really bad and cocky. I can understand where your scumread on me comes from, especially since I OMGUSd you but your defense of Fidei to me looks really suspect when you only share one scumlean on D1 and you shouldn't have any idea what his alignment is if you're town.
I'm not fucking defending Fidei you moron, I'm just calling his post fine. In a normal game mafia players make hundreds of "fine" posts. No one is dumb enough to give himself away with every post.
What I am doing is questioning your logic in suspecting Fidei, and trying to see if you could possibly believe what you're saying. So far I don't really see it.
I've read Fidei's post 5 times now and I just don't understand how saying true shit about you makes him mafia. It's such a leap.
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Welp since I'm a moron so early in the game, I see no reason to talk to Palmar now or ever again this game. If you're town, consider the fact that you just pissed off a townie to the point where I'm going to think everything you're doing in this game is wrong. So you can have fun pushing the d1 mislynch in me or leave me around and bumping heads with me the rest of the game. Talking to you isn't going to get either of us anywhere and I'm done with it. Get me lynched if you want, I just think you're retarded and stubborn town at this point and I still think Fidei's post is a lot less fine than you make it out to be so there's no reason for me to try and convince you otherwise.
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On December 01 2015 09:31 Half the Sky wrote:Hey everyone. A few thoughts on my end before I head to bed - Nulls on Rels/Damdred regarding setup discussion/speculation as I feel those are types of posts that can be made as either alignment (and such Rels' scumreads on Do and Damdred could also fall under the same category) by players who know general gameplay well enough. Trfel's comments on LS I have a mixed reaction on. I don't like the following phrasing and here's why: Show nested quote +Second, why would does this make me mafia in any way? Like, why does the fact that LightningStrike posted that he wouldn't be here at the start of the game have any bearing on my alignment? When I read this, I read it as trying to absolve responsibility from self regardless of actual intention (baiting in this case) - it's not what LS posted that is the problem, it's what you (Trfel) did about it. That reaction makes me think whether you are trying to cover something up. Moosy is something I am going to need more time reading given his general playstyle. No read on him so far obviously. disformation hasn't made any reads yets with the Trfel/Damdred interaction going on, and I think that might have been about when he left the thread. Answered Trfel's question, but from recalling the last student game, he did take more stances in that game. So far probable scumleans on Trfel/disformation. Fidei was someone who falls off hard as mafia, first post based on his SOTW 2 performance (mafia) is going to weigh in at NAI. The ONLY thing that jumps out at me from Fidei's post is why he commented on Rels being towny but Damdred not being so even though both talked about the setup, and Damdred seems to make more of a point in trying to get town to coalesence. Moving to Palmar/Shining...
HtS gets a townlean for better explaining one of the things I noticed in Fidei's post. I guess I'm just the only one who found the rest of it weird. w.e
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On December 01 2015 09:13 The Shining wrote:
Fidei's scumlean is bad. No one but disfo and Trfel had posted at the time of my posts and I poked fun at the fact that throughout the history of my playing on TL, I don't normally play on Mondays and Tuesdays. Which is why I "went quiet." I don't normally have time to play on these days and I'll be out of here once again shortly.
Palmar is bad for commenting on literally nothing up to this point but claiming I'm 100% scum. There are actual things going on in the thread but he's just trying to pick up off of Fidei's soft pushing on me to get me lynched. Out of Fidei and Palmar, Palmar is the worst looking one.
Agreed with Palmar, that doesn't make Fidei mafia. I just took it as him reacting to what he saw (either alignment) and I would probably draw it as more suspicious if he tried to push you as a lurker, say 24h from now.
As for Shining's scum team post, I took that as a joke, so I'm also not sure what Palmar is saying "both as a joke and as serious" and then leading into "there's no way he can believe what he's saying" - because when I read that phrasing it is basically saying "he's serious and mafia because what he's saying isn't believable" but how do you navigate that when he's intending that as a joke? Am I misunderstanding that one?
Shining, let's say Palmar just disappears. What are your reads on other people?
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I'm mulling over this shining situation and heres my take on it.
1) I think just meta wise that the general activity and the way shining is going about this makes him town.
- This is probably the least important point that i'm going to make but generally when shining is scum (even when he gets called out) he likes to be super background and not really interact unless he has to.
2) When hes scum he generally like I said before is pretty lurky without getting involved (besides catching up and recapping events)
- This is super important even though his early posts were pretty worthless when he saw things that he generally was interested in (even if it was about him) he immediately went in and tried to get things going on from his perspective.
3) His attack on Palmar I think is genuinely town indicative.
- Palmar is a hard target even for top townies, and while I think that shining is a good player as scum he generally attacks lower activity players, which fid could be an example of this. But his somewhat BM towards Palmar and his continued attack shows a clear lack of caring if he lives or dies. Which in shinings case actually is indicative of him being town.
4) I already said activity but I wanted to re interate that Shining does not really have connectivity to the internet on Mondays and Tuesdays, and he hates playing as scum. While its not super indicative I think ti does have some bearing on him to me.
Overall I think even though he probably is wrong about Palmar (i'm not super convinced either way), I think hes probably town even if its weak currently.
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EPT
