Detention Mafia
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Roleblocks should always be announced. So should doctor saves if you are saved. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
P.s. aww yss DnD | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
Around what game phase would you say you are most comfortable / "in the zone"? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
But please don't do this midgame, since I tend to correspond avatars to people, sometimes more than their names. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
What's your guys take on Alakaslam's style of posting? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 27 2014 10:48 jabberwockzerg wrote: confusing for the sake of being confusing valid strategy I suppose Valid in what sense? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
##Vote: jabberwockzerg | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 27 2014 15:31 fuba wrote: But the last game was Classroom, the game that got remade. And since jabber was scum in that game, he knew that Chrom wasn't. Which means that he knew chrom wasn't scum, but suggested that possibility anyway. While I can't give an exact reason for scum|jabber to lie, I don't see any reason for town|jabber to. ...Though now that I think of it, unless the scumteam is the exact three people it was last time, then jabber would be incredibly unlikely to intentionally lie about who was on it, since at least one scum from last game would be town this game and would point out that he's lying. So either this was just a mistake on his part or I'm misunderstanding some part of the interaction. Either way, I'm pretty sure I've talked myself out of this... ##Unvote On May 27 2014 21:37 fuba wrote: I don't really see scum as more likely to post something like that so carelessly, particularly because I can see no reason to do so. It seems like too much oversight with no payoff. On May 27 2014 21:42 fuba wrote: Bleh, I'll do another read through the thread when I have time after class. The lynch just seems wrong to me :S On May 28 2014 00:50 fuba wrote: ##Vote: jabberwockzerg What changed? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 28 2014 02:20 27ninjabunnies wrote: Hi there slOosh. You are okay with this lynch. Why? And do you have anything else to comment? On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote: Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. On May 27 2014 11:21 jabberwockzerg wrote: Definitely leaving towards scum though Calls Chrom scum, but also maybe town, for no reason. Very wishy washy, but interested in something of this Chrom lynch. I think combined with other different aspects brought up thus far, this is a very solid D1 lynch. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 28 2014 02:31 fuba wrote: Though what i'd said before (about an intentional lie being caught by his scummates) had slipped my mind. The entire situation is a ball of confusion. ? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 27 2014 17:41 Alakaslam wrote: Meta is useless, and I will be proof within 16 hours. Anything yet? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
How is it straightforward for you when you dismissed the whole thing as meta? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 27 2014 17:41 Alakaslam wrote: Meta is useless, and I will be proof within 16 hours. This happens when people are talking about the case. You chose not to comment on it at all despite his play being "illogical to a clear extreme", and only now you jump on? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 28 2014 03:10 27ninjabunnies wrote: By meta, isnt slam talking about his own meta? Im not sure how this statement refers to the case at hand. If that's the case, then the second applies: He chose not to comment on it at all. The one post he made was "don't meta me". It's self concerned, and also avoiding the issue. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 28 2014 08:51 Palmar wrote: If someone isn't following why that last MZ post raises alarms (aside from the fact he's calling everyone mafia), I'll explain. The bolded quote is very much not trying to figure out i's alignment. If MZ thinks there is any chance i is mafia, why is he trying to stop i from digging his own grave under the threat of "if you keep doing this I'll be suspicious of you!!!!". This looks like MZ wants to read i as town, while still looking like he's poking people. Palmar could you please explain your MZ read more? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 28 2014 16:43 Palmar wrote: Which part of it do you not get? "If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand." This is basically saying "If you don't elaborate, you're acting like mafia". When in reality if MZ is town, he shouldn't care whether or not i acts like mafia, but if he is mafia. If MZ is town and thinks i is town his logical explanation should be "If you don't elaborate, you won't convince anyone". Because if MZ thinks i is town, he wouldn't care about i doing something potentially scummy for the sake of it being scummy, and rather because it is not helpful. However if MZ thinks i is mafia, why is he explaining the steps i can take to remove any suspicion MZ might have to him. It's like me saying "hey, you just made a case that is wrong, that is very mafia like. please make another case that is right so I don't have to call you mafia." It's just an absurd way of playing the game. The only reasonable conclusion is that MZ must think i is town, and thus it makes no sense for MZ to point out something i does looks like something mafia does. The reason I created in my head is that MZ knows i is town, and doesn't feel the need to call him mafia right now, but does leave the open-ended suspicion for use later. Ohh so when boiled down you are saying he isn't treating i as potential mafia. Ok I can see that. On May 28 2014 14:32 gobbledydook wrote: so sloosh, what is *your* read on MZ? I have given my read already, basically I think he's not confident in his reads so he's hedging his bets. It basically depends on how good his stuff on Palmar is. Calling many people scum isn't bad if you can back it up with evidence and analysis, so now that he's been called out we'll see what he produces. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 29 2014 02:41 Alakaslam wrote: Watch someone who doesn't get math ask who i is "Oh, dearest, you mean- 'who am I', not 'who is i', that' improper spelling and grammar." Thoughts on the Palmar - MZ interactions? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 29 2014 03:24 Alakaslam wrote: None that remain clear in my mind. However I remember palmar had some sway? M_Z looked a little scummy to him but I think I disagreed. Disagree with the case itself or the read? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
@Amiko, what do you mean by second wagon? What does that look like? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
Are you guys proposing lynching someone else today? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 29 2014 03:57 Amiko wrote: @slOosh: Maybe jabberwockzerg will be lynched today, maybe not. Either way, I'd rather have the day end where there are two people who reasonably could get lynched. In that case, our votes are more significant because they reflect an actual choice: it means people found one person scummy as compared to another person. If all the votes are on jabberwockzerg, the votes don't tell us much of anything and don't reflect a meaningful choice by the players. Since some players don't want to vote jabberwockzerg, I want to know who their pick would be. I think with the deadline as is, if you want to bring up someone else you should do it immediately. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 29 2014 04:07 Amiko wrote: @slOosh: I'm writing now and seeing what I find. I can post what I have and continue I suppose. Btw I asked you for a read on Alakaslam a little earlier since a fair number of your posts seemed to focus on him, can you give me any comments? @27ninjabunnies: Nothing personal bunnies, but I'm going to ignore that post unless you give me anything to write about :x Oh I must have missed it. His posting style as is this game seems fine. I was more concerned if he was going to take it all the way ala last game, which is cause for concern as making your posts intentionally harder to read usually only makes sense from scum perspective. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote: As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD Hey fuba, could we get one of these before night ends? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game). On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this: To this: You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo. Oh hey 27NB: I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet. So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person. On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here: At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up. ??? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 30 2014 02:21 fuba wrote: Yuppers. Probably. Definitely look at gobble, and let me know what you think. Nothing really eyebrow raising with what he has done, as much as what he hasn't. Given the circumstances of D1, most people fall under this so it's a matter of seeing how they contribute with the D2 lynch. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
I bolded specific parts of his quotes. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 30 2014 03:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: That's called a progression of a read sloosh. As you can see, at first I was not suspicious of sqrt and was simply pointing things out about his play for him to fix, then he posted more and I changed my mind because of new information. This is typically how one processes facts in a changing environment. I literally outline what's going on in the second post you quoted. What has sqrt done that you would consider him town? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 30 2014 13:06 Amiko wrote: Okay, reading through filters, slOosh is my top scum right now and I want to lynch him. There’s other things that I think support scumreading him, but I think this is the best point so I want to start here and build. I think the central point is: After voting jabber, slOosh does nothing to develop his feelings on jabber. He doesn't try to get explanations from jabber or even follow up after jabber's responses This is the post where slOosh joins the vote for jabber. Initially, this is worrisome because slOosh is joining the wagon in a noncommittal way. He isn’t stating what he agrees or disagrees with. This is a “+1” post. This is potentially scummy because it’s bandwagoning without commitment. But the remainder of the day is what turns from suspicious to scummy. After his vote, slOosh does almost nothing on the lynch on jabber. So, take a look at other players’ actions D1. Other players question jabber – they are not sure on the lynch, so they want to get more information or talk about the issue more with other players. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- slOosh's D1 is different from almost every other player D1 because of his lack of interaction or followup on slOosh I went through every players' filter and I think almost all of them (maybe not Slam) support my read on slOosh as uninterested in the jabber lynch. This is a little long so I'll put it in a spoiler, but I really invite you to read through it. + Show Spoiler + 27Ninjabunnies: Many tons of interaction with jabber after she votes on him. + Show Spoiler + GOSH THERE ARE SO MANY EXAMPLES. Here’s just a few – even after raising the case and voting jabber, bunnies asks him numerous questions to get more information. There’s significant back and forth between them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#116 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=7#126 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=8#145 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=8#150 I’m not going to list them all, there are plenty, look at bunnies’ filter, they are all over. She is not set on the lynch. This is the kind of reaction I would expect from town. Meapak_Ziphh doesn’t interact with jabber much, but he does comment on the case numerous times through D1 and explaining how he feels on the lynch. His filter doesn’t look as good as bunnies to me – he doesn’t really ask jabber anything directly or necessarily stir up discussion. I think he's kind of suspicious anyway, but he’s still better than slOosh. + Show Spoiler + Discusses reasons for joining vote - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=14#262 Says which situation he thinks is most likely - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=15#286 Still thinks jabber is best lynch - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#306 Directs comments to jabber (admittedly not in a helpful or inquisitive way) - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=17#333 Gobbledydook: starts off with some hesitancy on the lynch and gives fair reasons, explains his thoughts as he goes, addresses comments to jabber as well. + Show Spoiler + Comments on lynch - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#161 Shows more certainty after jabber’s responses - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#308 Explains his comment - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#313 Addresses comments to jabber - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=20#383 HaruRH: A lot of Haru’s talk about JWZ is responsive, but he does address JWZ directly as well and comments on the lynch multiple times through d1. As an aside, rereading Haru’s talk D1 is the main reasons I now want to push slOosh over Haru. I still have doubts, for sure, but Haru’s level of interactionwith jabber feels so much higher than slOosh’s. + Show Spoiler + Talks to JWZ telling him to look elsewhere - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=7#130 Discusses his interactions with JWZ (this is in response to a direct question, though) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=7#137 Gives updates on play (again responses to question) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#165 Points out something he sees as scummy http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#179 Talks with JWZ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#180 Explains thoughts (response) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#316 Comments on jabber http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=29#566 (more in filter) Sqrt: Sqrt was around when the case was made on jabber and interacted some with jabber and the players involved. He does ask jabber some questions and comments on jabber’s subsequent posts + Show Spoiler + Joking to jabber http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#113 Commenting on jabber’s response http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#115 Goes through reasons after voting http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=13#259, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=15#289 Specifically says jabber is his top scum http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#305 Comments on jabber’s subsequent posts http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=18#344 Asks for clarification from jabber http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=19#379 Alakaslam: Ehh slam doesn’t really do much better than slOosh in this respect. He does have a little more on JWZ but it’s not too substantial either. + Show Spoiler + Initial explanation of vote on jabber: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#240 More explanation/thought on jabber: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=14#261 Mderg, Fuba, Palmar: I’m not going back into their filters because I did a lot already, and I know these players talked a lot about the jabber wagon on D1 so I don’t really want to post links on them for no reason. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So I just went through all these players. Why? It’s certainly possible for mafia to ask questions to jabber. They probably did! But, it is really hard for me to believe that town joins a vote on jabber, yet doesn’t seem to revisit the issue, talk about its merits with other players, or get some sort of confirmation from jabber. Pretty much every player in the game discussed the jabber lynch to some extent. Maybe we questioned jabber, or we explained our thoughts on why it could be a natural mistake, a scumslip, what jabber’s followup comments meant to us, etc. slOosh doesn’t ask any questions to jabber, or really follow up on the lynch. We get his explanation here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#229). After voting for jabber, slOosh's D1 is questioning other players on why they vote for jabber, talking about Slam & Palmar, etc. Seriously, take a look at his filter and see how little he has to say about the lynch that was there basically the entire day. Wheres other players expressed doubt through trying to get more information, press jabber for more information, etc., If you are town, you (like me) did not know whether jabber was mafia or not. You talked about the lynch, you read jabber's responses, and you probably considered them and wrote something about your reads. slOosh's d1 reflects indifference to the lynch. I feel that indifference comes from scum. ##Vote: slOosh Not interacting with him isn't the same thing as indifference. Jabber was in a situation where basically the entirety of town was calling him scum. The best thing to do in this situation is to ease off the pressure so we can see if he can develop some reads and absolve himself. Otherwise all his efforts are put into trying to defend himself for a mistake we now know was innocently made, and cannot be defended. Which is what he ended up doing. This led to posts like this On May 28 2014 09:20 jabberwockzerg wrote: I'm just gonna go 1 by 1 and tell what I think of everybody so far 1) Chromatically Thought his activity was suspicious at first, but rethinking about it now he doesn't seem too bad. 2) 27ninjabunnies Playing hard, throwing around leads. She could be scummy, but I'm leaning towards town for her. Nothing she's said has jumped out as questionable. 3) Meapak_Ziphh I agree with gobbledy, that his scatterbrainedness is more about a lack of confidence about his reads than scumm behavior. 4) gobbledydook no reads 5) jabberwockzerg That's me! Town, if there seems to be any confusion :D 6) mderg Not really getting much. 7) HaruRH Kinda defending me, which is cool of him. A real pal. Don't see why a Mafia would do that at all, so he's clean. 8) sqrtofneg1 and then following up with just kinda seems like a half baked WIFOM attempt from mafia to my (admittedly untrained) eyes also he has been throwing down a lot without following up on a lot. Probably my frontrunner for scum at this point. 9) slOosh not getting much 10) Amiko Good, high quality posts, but no read at this point in time 11) Alakaslam no read 12) fuba Defending me, which is great of him. No reason for a Mafia to defend me, so he's clean for me. 13) Palmar A little scummy, which has been covered but not really at the forefront of my mind. I'll be happy to answer any questions people have for the next couple hours and attempt to clear my name In hindsight we see that because his time and focus is bent on something that he admits was a mistake and is indefensible, his post quality dropped. At the time, it's not clear if this is from scum or town, because there isn't too much actual content in here. I wanted to avoid this by not adding onto the grilling of him, and instead watch what he does if left alone. This is why I started prodding other people as it's more productive than just waiting to see what jabber would say, and also maybe provide avenues for jabber to contribute. In the end jabber wasn't really able to mount any meaningful content so I left my vote on him. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
First, he puts suspicion on many people without doing it in a clear focused manner. Palmar already pointed out one of the earlier ones On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote: MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion". Welcome to my scum tier. On May 29 2014 04:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: hmm I'm a bit suspect of people trying to develop a second wagon at the same time as they're voting JWZ. Either say you've changed your mind about jwz and explain why or start developing reads for tomorrow. ##Vote: jabberwockzerg Thought there was a voting thread lol Here he does the same thing. Instead of saying "hey, making a second wagon for information is a bad idea" he says "you guys look like mafia for doing this". Not only that, but he says 'people' instead of actually calling out names. He is being vague so that if the opportunity arises, he can push that and say "look I called them out first" but if called out for it he can back out without being held responsible. Next is his really strange sqrt read progression. I point out during the night how his read on sqrt has vacillated back and forth. On May 30 2014 03:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: That's called a progression of a read sloosh. As you can see, at first I was not suspicious of sqrt and was simply pointing things out about his play for him to fix, then he posted more and I changed my mind because of new information. This is typically how one processes facts in a changing environment. I literally outline what's going on in the second post you quoted. It goes from "I didn't call sqrt scum" to "I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself" to "I am probably most suspicious of sqrt" and "However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet". There is of course progression of reads. People post and opinions can change based on such posts. However the progression is interesting because sqrt has, I believe, posted in a consistent manner where nothing seemed exceptionally strange for him. So I ask him for the reason. Here's a huge contradiction. The last phrase was "However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet". Meapak here doesn't want to call sqrt town, but at the same time he doesn't want to call him scum. At the same time, sqrt is his focus of choice! Meapak doesn't really care about figuring out sqrt, but wants to be seen as interacting and looking like he is scumhunting. On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here: At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up. This is his general attitude. Stay back and watch, drop in here and there to call him scum (?) or tell him how not to be scum (?), all without actually working to solidify anything in sqrt. Meapak is taking the backseat and doing nothing. On May 30 2014 16:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Harurh, Palmar is almost certainly town at this point fyi. imo Amiko's case on sloosh is excellent, I'm curious to see who opposes it. More sowing suspicion and disruption without actually naming names. If he felt it strong, he should have just slapped his vote on. But he doesn't. He stays back and lax, content to see town do whatever they want as long as it doesn't concern him. Meapak is scum because he throws around suspicion while being vague and avoiding responsibility, and total laxity regarding his most suspicious read sqrt. ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 31 2014 05:07 Amiko wrote: I’ll look at thread and maybe comment on M_Z, but here’s even more reason to vote slOosh First look at this post by slOosh, we’ll then talk about how it differs from other players. So, when you are offered the idea of a new wagon, you might expect a few responses. Players might propose some additional wagons, or use the situation to make reads. (ex: 27ninjabunnies, sqrt, fuba) + Show Spoiler + 27ninjabunnies: Suggests fuba as a potential other wagon (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=24#471, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=25#496). Suggests me as a potential wagon (as a reaction test) (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=25#486). Sqrt: Proposed other wagons, even ended up voting on one. Gave some reasons, even if kind of weird, why he jumped around the wagons. Was pushing for second wagons and suggested some. Fuba: Suggested wagon on gobbledygook (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=28#556) Players might comment on the idea of other wagons as good or bad. (ex: mderg, M_Z, Palmar) + Show Spoiler + mderg: Comments on my proposal of Haru as a second wagon (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=27#540). Comments on fuba’s proposal of a gobbledygook wagon (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=29#561). M_Z: Says he is suspicious of players making secondary wagons while voting for jabber (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=26#509). Also discusses Palmar as a lynch candidate, but indicates he is skeptical (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=31#603). Palmar: Tells us not to raise other wagons (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=29#565) (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=29#572) and comments on the push on himself as an alternate wagon (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=24#468) Alakaslam: Like Palmar, states he does not want alternate wagons (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=27#533). Some players don't weigh in on wagons as much, but this is at least somewhat less suspicious because they spend some time defending wagons on themselves (gobbledygook, Haru). + Show Spoiler + gobbledydook doesn’t comment much on the existence of other wagons, but he does defend again fuba’s suggestion of him as an alternate wagon. HaruRH is kind of similar in that he defends against my points on him, though he does comment some on a potential Palmar wagon it’s limited. slOosh’s comments (above) are different. He doesn’t indicate whether he wants another wagon or not – he waits to see who is proposed Here are ALL OF SLOOSH’S POSTS that come after we are discussing a second wagon until the vote. I was going to put this in a spoiler tag, but then I saw how few posts there were so why bother. When I raise a wagon (as he says I should do soon) he doesn't even comment on it. So, as I said before, slOosh is scum because he doesn't weigh in on jabber, who should be a focus for the day. But, slOosh is also scum because he doesn't weigh in on any of the other wagons (Palmar, Haru, fuba) Like I said, I didn't weigh in on Jabber because I didn't want to add pressure on him. By the end of the day he didn't produce much and so I didn't feel the need to come in and say "jabber hasn't done anything so I'm keeping my vote on him". Given that I'm juggling two games, I can't have as a comprehensive attention as I would like to, so I chose to spend the time that I could afford for this game to figure out MZ, and get people's thoughts on him, since other people were being covered but aside from Palmar there weren't that many firm stances on MZ, and personally I felt like he was more likely to be scum than the people brought up. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 31 2014 05:42 Amiko wrote: slOosh’s defense is here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=36#711 . I believe his explanation is: (1) He says he did not push jabber because wanted to see what jabber did if jabber was left alone. (2) He wanted to push other people, to maybe provide avenues for jabber to contribute. #1 This isn't that arguable, but it's more likely to come from scum. Jabber was left alone and he made comments that didn’t help us read him as town. Why would scum want to interject if jabber is doing a good job burying himself? At least slOosh does concedes that he didn’t push jabber, though, so you don’t need to read his filter to confirm that he didn’t push on jabber. Further, slOosh doesn't comment or push on jabber's subsequent posts. So, if he actually cared what jabber did, why did he seem to ignore what jabber did? #2 This is not a good explanation because it is not consistent with his play. As I pointed out here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=36#716), slOosh really did not push other players, despite a few other wagons forming as options. I don’t see him providing new points on the players or providing a line of questioning that jabber could jump into. 1) Not posting about it =/= ignoring it. I took into consideration of how he acted towards deadline, but didn't find him town enough to come into the thread and try to avert the lynch. 2) Perhaps we have a different understanding of push - I'm not talking about making full blown cases on people, but posting generally about other people to get a better feel for where they are, and see where things don't hold up. Did my plan work? Evidently not. But I don't see the problem here. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
Could you guys please comment on my actual MZ case? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 31 2014 15:39 Amiko wrote: @slOosh - You did make a defense against my larger case (I don't find it convincing). Do you have any separate response to the points Chrom raised on you from D1? The context of the quote is bunny's question On May 28 2014 02:20 27ninjabunnies wrote: Hi there slOosh. You are okay with this lynch. Why? And do you have anything else to comment? The slip was straightforward, and when asked for additional comment, I added something else that I saw. On May 31 2014 15:39 Amiko wrote: @slOosh - What do you think is your best post from D1? Or like, the best thing you did D1? I don't know how to answer this question. I think the best thing thus far is my MZ case. On May 31 2014 15:39 Amiko wrote: @slOosh - Do you have any recent thoughts on Palmar/sqrt/Alakaslam? Palmar: I think his night time posting was very reasonable, particularly how he directed town. It reflects he is considering the possibility of death which is something scum don't do. HaruRH's suspicion of him is stymied by the fact that Palmar does indeed not read OPs, so it's not very telling. sqrt: I think his style of posting is very fluid and stream of thought, which is difficult for scum to pull off. There are red flags here and there (talking about blues, doing 180s etc.) but it looks like naivete rather than malicious intent. I have a hard time thinking scum could post so unabashedly. Alakaslam: His style of posting definitely bothers me at this point, since even though he makes some reads (?), he leaves out his thinking process entirely so it's hard to see where he comes from. Additionally, he has still yet to make any read on Meapak. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
Pressure gobbles next. His huge post concerning MZ doesn't really seem to have a conclusion, and it's not clear how exactly he is reading MZ as town. With bunny, On May 31 2014 13:57 27ninjabunnies wrote: I mean. Idk. I prob need to read the last few pages, but im super tired... Lol Yeah, i think ill just post in the morning. Sloosh, palmer, mz probz scum. Will discuss later Find out what she means by this. As someone who was pretty involved day 1, she should question a palmer mz scum team the way they went against each other. Likewise for day 2. This is a very strange post. I don't think fuba is as scummy as people are making him to be. His reads of MZ and sqrt seem very reasonable in that they aren't leaning hard either way but seem to be developing over time, considering that they could be town / mafia, instead of just assuming that they are one and going with it, which is what mafia do. Amiko ... I'm not too sure. I could see scum making a strong push for MZ, since he brushes off anything I say about MZ and makes sure the focus is on me, or it could just be misguided townie thinking I'm the stronger lynch. I would be watchful of what his actions relating to non-MZ players are, especially during the next day. Good luck town. Watch out for busses tomorrow. | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
My heart kinda broke when I saw these posts On May 29 2014 09:10 jabberwockzerg wrote: ## vote: Meapak_Ziphh On May 29 2014 09:10 jabberwockzerg wrote: come on bold ##vote: Meapak_Ziphh I feel like a competent scum team will definitely punish "newbie" town play like this game, so it might be a bit rough on them. I think jabber took it well but being mislynched / misunderstood feels pretty bad and I dunno ... maybe a "downside" so to speak. Like, when I play IRL mafia, I always shoot someone who I know "can take it" since the groups I play with usually have "new" people who I'd rather let them play the game. As scum I felt supporting the jabber lynch was the good play, but I didn't enjoy lynching him for his "mistake". Maybe it's just tough love, I dunno. I think Palmar played very well as a player (participant). The way he was helpful in addressing some cases such as sqrt's against him, and the way he deconstructed the wagon against him I think was top notch. It was done in a friendly tone and manner, explaining the issues with the argument opposed to attacking the player etc. Very much what I would desire in a mixed experienced player / newbie game. Of course in game coaching is a bit tougher since there is always the element of doubt / distrust, but I think Palmar did splendidly. Big props | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 05 2014 19:05 Palmar wrote: 2) Mderg also addresses this, but he does it in a very particular way, I'll quote him: "Me being scum only makes sense, if jabber flips town. I could see mafia reasons for that." I hope I'm not the only one who noticed that if mderg is mafia, he made a super ballsy play of literally planting the idea that he may be mafia based on something he already knew would come true. Hell townies don't like to claim they might be mafia, mafia absolutely hates doing it. It's really, really hard for me to believe that mderg would be capable of such an advanced mafia play. Also, still don't completely understand this. Town don't like doing it, neither does mafia. Is he more likely to be town because mafia dislike doing it so much more? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
It would have opened up the fake claim as watcher option too ![]() I think I can handle 2 games of mafia at once. Just not two games as mafia >.<; | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On June 10 2014 19:30 marvellosity wrote: It's not just you, I don't like lynches like that either. It's much easier to mislynch townies when there's genuine needle or it'd be funny or something. Unfortunately you just gotta suck it up because you gotta pick on the weak targets. Although mislynching a strong player at lylo is about as good as it gets when you're mafia Oh yea, that's part of the game. Just mentioning in the context of a mixed player base, as a potential (?) downside. It would suck for a brand new player to get super mislynched, and from that position it is really hard to come back and "prove" yourself, since it's already ingrained in town's mind that you will be lynched. That said, scum didn't really push the wagon as much as offering no resistance (or in fact did offer resistance), so I dunno maybe this is something that would happen in all games regardless of player base. | ||
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