• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:53
CEST 17:53
KST 00:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 28805 users

Detention Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Normal
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 00:36 GMT
#14
Aww man was doctor ...
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 00:41 GMT
#19
My bad.

Roleblocks should always be announced. So should doctor saves if you are saved.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 00:58 GMT
#25
Hi jabber, what kind of IRL games did you play (setup, roles etc.)?

slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 01:25 GMT
#36
Pressure from whom sqrt?

P.s. aww yss DnD
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 01:29 GMT
#39
Ah. We've all been there before.

Around what game phase would you say you are most comfortable / "in the zone"?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 01:41 GMT
#45
Same, just out of ideas of how to jumpstart town right now.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 01:45 GMT
#47
Yup. I believe it hits vulture next. If you change races in your profile, you can cycle to other stuff (hydra and dragoon I think?).

But please don't do this midgame, since I tend to correspond avatars to people, sometimes more than their names.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 01:47 GMT
#54
Ooh here's something.

What's your guys take on Alakaslam's style of posting?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 01:50 GMT
#58
On May 27 2014 10:48 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2014 10:47 slOosh wrote:
Ooh here's something.

What's your guys take on Alakaslam's style of posting?

confusing for the sake of being confusing
valid strategy I suppose

Valid in what sense?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 17:09 GMT
#222
Seems straightforward.

##Vote: jabberwockzerg
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 17:20 GMT
#226
On May 27 2014 15:31 fuba wrote:
But the last game was Classroom, the game that got remade. And since jabber was scum in that game, he knew that Chrom wasn't. Which means that he knew chrom wasn't scum, but suggested that possibility anyway. While I can't give an exact reason for scum|jabber to lie, I don't see any reason for town|jabber to.

...Though now that I think of it, unless the scumteam is the exact three people it was last time, then jabber would be incredibly unlikely to intentionally lie about who was on it, since at least one scum from last game would be town this game and would point out that he's lying. So either this was just a mistake on his part or I'm misunderstanding some part of the interaction. Either way, I'm pretty sure I've talked myself out of this...

##Unvote

On May 27 2014 21:37 fuba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2014 21:07 Chromatically wrote:
On May 27 2014 11:56 HaruRH wrote:
On May 27 2014 11:54 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Delicately, must I awkwardly introduce all of my posts and then just get on with them


I think that doing anything else other than leaving the subject as it is will make you an even likelier target for scrumm. Change the topic quickly

I don't like this choice of words so soon after you voted him, though. This makes it seem like you know he is town.


On May 27 2014 15:31 fuba wrote:
But the last game was Classroom, the game that got remade. And since jabber was scum in that game, he knew that Chrom wasn't. Which means that he knew chrom wasn't scum, but suggested that possibility anyway. While I can't give an exact reason for scum|jabber to lie, I don't see any reason for town|jabber to.

...Though now that I think of it, unless the scumteam is the exact three people it was last time, then jabber would be incredibly unlikely to intentionally lie about who was on it, since at least one scum from last game would be town this game and would point out that he's lying. So either this was just a mistake on his part or I'm misunderstanding some part of the interaction. Either way, I'm pretty sure I've talked myself out of this...

##Unvote

I disagree with this because it doesn't make sense as either alignment. It's clearly a bad move for town, and also for scum because it serves no purpose other than to make yourself look suspicious. However, it's more likely to come from scum because scum has factors like nervousness, wanting to look good/push something, artificial reads, etc that would cause them to slip up and lie for no reason.

I don't really see scum as more likely to post something like that so carelessly, particularly because I can see no reason to do so. It seems like too much oversight with no payoff.

On May 27 2014 21:42 fuba wrote:
Bleh, I'll do another read through the thread when I have time after class. The lynch just seems wrong to me :S

On May 28 2014 00:50 fuba wrote:
##Vote: jabberwockzerg


What changed?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 17:26 GMT
#229
On May 28 2014 02:20 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 02:09 slOosh wrote:
Seems straightforward.

##Vote: jabberwockzerg


Hi there slOosh.

You are okay with this lynch.

Why?

And do you have anything else to comment?


On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town.

On May 27 2014 11:21 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Definitely leaving towards scum though

Calls Chrom scum, but also maybe town, for no reason. Very wishy washy, but interested in something of this Chrom lynch.

I think combined with other different aspects brought up thus far, this is a very solid D1 lynch.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 17:34 GMT
#232
On May 28 2014 02:31 fuba wrote:
Though what i'd said before (about an intentional lie being caught by his scummates) had slipped my mind. The entire situation is a ball of confusion.

?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 17:49 GMT
#236
Oh ... right. Yea. Bleh.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 17:56 GMT
#237
On May 27 2014 17:41 Alakaslam wrote:
Meta is useless, and I will be proof within 16 hours.

Anything yet?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 18:01 GMT
#239
On May 28 2014 02:59 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 02:09 slOosh wrote:
Seems straightforward.

##Vote: jabberwockzerg

##Vote: jabberwockzerg

How is it straightforward for you when you dismissed the whole thing as meta?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 18:06 GMT
#244
On May 27 2014 17:41 Alakaslam wrote:
Meta is useless, and I will be proof within 16 hours.

This happens when people are talking about the case. You chose not to comment on it at all despite his play being "illogical to a clear extreme", and only now you jump on?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 27 2014 18:12 GMT
#248
On May 28 2014 03:10 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 03:06 slOosh wrote:
On May 27 2014 17:41 Alakaslam wrote:
Meta is useless, and I will be proof within 16 hours.

This happens when people are talking about the case. You chose not to comment on it at all despite his play being "illogical to a clear extreme", and only now you jump on?


By meta, isnt slam talking about his own meta?

Im not sure how this statement refers to the case at hand.

If that's the case, then the second applies: He chose not to comment on it at all. The one post he made was "don't meta me". It's self concerned, and also avoiding the issue.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 28 2014 04:55 GMT
#422
On May 28 2014 08:51 Palmar wrote:
If someone isn't following why that last MZ post raises alarms (aside from the fact he's calling everyone mafia), I'll explain.

Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 08:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
You know what else I don't like?
Amiko's not as active as he usually is.
Yes, he's making big posts and big cases.
Yes, he has been the most substantial player so far, in terms of post content.
But he's not as active.
Other games, he's always around, asking people questions and the like.
This game, not so much.

You've thrown around a lot of suspicions this game. Instead of making a vague statement like this, interpret what it means. If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand. Instead tell us why this is a problem, maybe provide some examples if you're gonna cite his meta.


The bolded quote is very much not trying to figure out i's alignment. If MZ thinks there is any chance i is mafia, why is he trying to stop i from digging his own grave under the threat of "if you keep doing this I'll be suspicious of you!!!!". This looks like MZ wants to read i as town, while still looking like he's poking people.


Palmar could you please explain your MZ read more?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 28 2014 17:31 GMT
#473
On May 28 2014 16:43 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 13:55 slOosh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:51 Palmar wrote:
If someone isn't following why that last MZ post raises alarms (aside from the fact he's calling everyone mafia), I'll explain.

On May 28 2014 08:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
You know what else I don't like?
Amiko's not as active as he usually is.
Yes, he's making big posts and big cases.
Yes, he has been the most substantial player so far, in terms of post content.
But he's not as active.
Other games, he's always around, asking people questions and the like.
This game, not so much.

You've thrown around a lot of suspicions this game. Instead of making a vague statement like this, interpret what it means. If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand. Instead tell us why this is a problem, maybe provide some examples if you're gonna cite his meta.


The bolded quote is very much not trying to figure out i's alignment. If MZ thinks there is any chance i is mafia, why is he trying to stop i from digging his own grave under the threat of "if you keep doing this I'll be suspicious of you!!!!". This looks like MZ wants to read i as town, while still looking like he's poking people.


Palmar could you please explain your MZ read more?

Which part of it do you not get?

"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."

This is basically saying

"If you don't elaborate, you're acting like mafia".

When in reality if MZ is town, he shouldn't care whether or not i acts like mafia, but if he is mafia. If MZ is town and thinks i is town his logical explanation should be

"If you don't elaborate, you won't convince anyone".

Because if MZ thinks i is town, he wouldn't care about i doing something potentially scummy for the sake of it being scummy, and rather because it is not helpful. However if MZ thinks i is mafia, why is he explaining the steps i can take to remove any suspicion MZ might have to him. It's like me saying "hey, you just made a case that is wrong, that is very mafia like. please make another case that is right so I don't have to call you mafia." It's just an absurd way of playing the game.

The only reasonable conclusion is that MZ must think i is town, and thus it makes no sense for MZ to point out something i does looks like something mafia does.

The reason I created in my head is that MZ knows i is town, and doesn't feel the need to call him mafia right now, but does leave the open-ended suspicion for use later.

Ohh so when boiled down you are saying he isn't treating i as potential mafia. Ok I can see that.

On May 28 2014 14:32 gobbledydook wrote:
so sloosh, what is *your* read on MZ? I have given my read already, basically I think he's not confident in his reads so he's hedging his bets.

It basically depends on how good his stuff on Palmar is. Calling many people scum isn't bad if you can back it up with evidence and analysis, so now that he's been called out we'll see what he produces.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 28 2014 17:47 GMT
#475
On May 29 2014 02:41 Alakaslam wrote:
Watch someone who doesn't get math ask who i is

"Oh, dearest, you mean- 'who am I', not 'who is i', that' improper spelling and grammar."

Thoughts on the Palmar - MZ interactions?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 28 2014 18:28 GMT
#481
On May 29 2014 03:24 Alakaslam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 02:47 slOosh wrote:
On May 29 2014 02:41 Alakaslam wrote:
Watch someone who doesn't get math ask who i is

"Oh, dearest, you mean- 'who am I', not 'who is i', that' improper spelling and grammar."

Thoughts on the Palmar - MZ interactions?

None that remain clear in my mind. However I remember palmar had some sway? M_Z looked a little scummy to him but I think I disagreed.

Disagree with the case itself or the read?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 28 2014 18:38 GMT
#485
I assume he was piggybacking on the "seems straightforward" aspect.

@Amiko, what do you mean by second wagon? What does that look like?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 28 2014 18:54 GMT
#487
Did the term wagon change while I was gone?

Are you guys proposing lynching someone else today?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 28 2014 19:05 GMT
#490
On May 29 2014 03:57 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
Maybe jabberwockzerg will be lynched today, maybe not. Either way, I'd rather have the day end where there are two people who reasonably could get lynched. In that case, our votes are more significant because they reflect an actual choice: it means people found one person scummy as compared to another person. If all the votes are on jabberwockzerg, the votes don't tell us much of anything and don't reflect a meaningful choice by the players.

Since some players don't want to vote jabberwockzerg, I want to know who their pick would be.

I think with the deadline as is, if you want to bring up someone else you should do it immediately.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 28 2014 19:14 GMT
#497
On May 29 2014 04:07 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
I'm writing now and seeing what I find. I can post what I have and continue I suppose.
Btw I asked you for a read on Alakaslam a little earlier since a fair number of your posts seemed to focus on him, can you give me any comments?

@27ninjabunnies: Nothing personal bunnies, but I'm going to ignore that post unless you give me anything to write about :x

Oh I must have missed it.

His posting style as is this game seems fine. I was more concerned if he was going to take it all the way ala last game, which is cause for concern as making your posts intentionally harder to read usually only makes sense from scum perspective.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 29 2014 06:14 GMT
#602
On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:
As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD

Hey fuba, could we get one of these before night ends?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 29 2014 17:52 GMT
#615
On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".

Welcome to my scum tier.

Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game).


On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this:

Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.

I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.

But I kind of think he's town.


To this:

Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar?


Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too.


You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo.

Oh hey 27NB:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:
On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages


Hey im scumhunting....

So im thinking,

Team for mafia:

Jabber/Sqrt/mderg

Or

Jabber/palmer/mderg

Something like that,

Id lynch both jabber and mderg though

I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet.

So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person.

On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:
On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum?

MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time?

My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.

If you're town, I would have expected this

"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."

Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was

"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."

I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread..

I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest.


At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up.

???
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 29 2014 18:01 GMT
#618
On May 30 2014 02:21 fuba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 15:14 slOosh wrote:
On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:
As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD

Hey fuba, could we get one of these before night ends?

Yuppers. Probably. Definitely look at gobble, and let me know what you think.

Nothing really eyebrow raising with what he has done, as much as what he hasn't. Given the circumstances of D1, most people fall under this so it's a matter of seeing how they contribute with the D2 lynch.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 29 2014 18:01 GMT
#619
On May 30 2014 02:56 mderg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".

Welcome to my scum tier.

Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game).


On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this:

On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.

I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.

But I kind of think he's town.


To this:

On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar?


On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too.


You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo.

Oh hey 27NB:
On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:
On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages


Hey im scumhunting....

So im thinking,

Team for mafia:

Jabber/Sqrt/mderg

Or

Jabber/palmer/mderg

Something like that,

Id lynch both jabber and mderg though

I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet.

So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person.

On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:
On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum?

MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time?

My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here:
On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.

If you're town, I would have expected this

"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."

Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was

"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."

I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread..

I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest.


At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up.

???

Would you mind elaborating?

I bolded specific parts of his quotes.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 29 2014 18:17 GMT
#623
On May 30 2014 03:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".

Welcome to my scum tier.

Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game).


On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this:

On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.

I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.

But I kind of think he's town.


To this:

On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar?


On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too.


You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo.

Oh hey 27NB:
On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:
On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages


Hey im scumhunting....

So im thinking,

Team for mafia:

Jabber/Sqrt/mderg

Or

Jabber/palmer/mderg

Something like that,

Id lynch both jabber and mderg though

I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet.

So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person.

On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:
On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum?

MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time?

My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here:
On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.

If you're town, I would have expected this

"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."

Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was

"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."

I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread..

I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest.


At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up.

???

That's called a progression of a read sloosh. As you can see, at first I was not suspicious of sqrt and was simply pointing things out about his play for him to fix, then he posted more and I changed my mind because of new information. This is typically how one processes facts in a changing environment. I literally outline what's going on in the second post you quoted.

What has sqrt done that you would consider him town?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 30 2014 16:00 GMT
#711
On May 30 2014 13:06 Amiko wrote:
Okay, reading through filters, slOosh is my top scum right now and I want to lynch him.

There’s other things that I think support scumreading him, but I think this is the best point so I want to start here and build.

I think the central point is: After voting jabber, slOosh does nothing to develop his feelings on jabber. He doesn't try to get explanations from jabber or even follow up after jabber's responses

This is the post where slOosh joins the vote for jabber.
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 02:09 slOosh wrote:
Seems straightforward.

##Vote: jabberwockzerg

Initially, this is worrisome because slOosh is joining the wagon in a noncommittal way. He isn’t stating what he agrees or disagrees with. This is a “+1” post. This is potentially scummy because it’s bandwagoning without commitment. But the remainder of the day is what turns from suspicious to scummy.

After his vote, slOosh does almost nothing on the lynch on jabber. So, take a look at other players’ actions D1. Other players question jabber – they are not sure on the lynch, so they want to get more information or talk about the issue more with other players.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
slOosh's D1 is different from almost every other player D1 because of his lack of interaction or followup on slOosh

I went through every players' filter and I think almost all of them (maybe not Slam) support my read on slOosh as uninterested in the jabber lynch. This is a little long so I'll put it in a spoiler, but I really invite you to read through it.

+ Show Spoiler +

27Ninjabunnies:
Many tons of interaction with jabber after she votes on him.
+ Show Spoiler +

GOSH THERE ARE SO MANY EXAMPLES. Here’s just a few – even after raising the case and voting jabber, bunnies asks him numerous questions to get more information. There’s significant back and forth between them.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#116
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=7#126
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=8#145
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=8#150
I’m not going to list them all, there are plenty, look at bunnies’ filter, they are all over. She is not set on the lynch. This is the kind of reaction I would expect from town.


Meapak_Ziphh doesn’t interact with jabber much, but he does comment on the case numerous times through D1 and explaining how he feels on the lynch. His filter doesn’t look as good as bunnies to me – he doesn’t really ask jabber anything directly or necessarily stir up discussion. I think he's kind of suspicious anyway, but he’s still better than slOosh.
+ Show Spoiler +

Discusses reasons for joining vote - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=14#262
Says which situation he thinks is most likely - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=15#286
Still thinks jabber is best lynch - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#306
Directs comments to jabber (admittedly not in a helpful or inquisitive way) - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=17#333


Gobbledydook:
starts off with some hesitancy on the lynch and gives fair reasons, explains his thoughts as he goes, addresses comments to jabber as well.
+ Show Spoiler +

Comments on lynch - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#161
Shows more certainty after jabber’s responses - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#308
Explains his comment - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#313
Addresses comments to jabber - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=20#383


HaruRH:
A lot of Haru’s talk about JWZ is responsive, but he does address JWZ directly as well and comments on the lynch multiple times through d1. As an aside, rereading Haru’s talk D1 is the main reasons I now want to push slOosh over Haru. I still have doubts, for sure, but Haru’s level of interactionwith jabber feels so much higher than slOosh’s.
+ Show Spoiler +

Talks to JWZ telling him to look elsewhere - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=7#130
Discusses his interactions with JWZ (this is in response to a direct question, though) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=7#137
Gives updates on play (again responses to question) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#165
Points out something he sees as scummy http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#179
Talks with JWZ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=9#180
Explains thoughts (response) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#316
Comments on jabber http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=29#566
(more in filter)


Sqrt:
Sqrt was around when the case was made on jabber and interacted some with jabber and the players involved. He does ask jabber some questions and comments on jabber’s subsequent posts
+ Show Spoiler +

Joking to jabber http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#113
Commenting on jabber’s response http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#115
Goes through reasons after voting http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=13#259, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=15#289
Specifically says jabber is his top scum http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=16#305
Comments on jabber’s subsequent posts http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=18#344
Asks for clarification from jabber http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=19#379


Alakaslam: Ehh slam doesn’t really do much better than slOosh in this respect. He does have a little more on JWZ but it’s not too substantial either.
+ Show Spoiler +

Initial explanation of vote on jabber: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#240
More explanation/thought on jabber: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=14#261


Mderg, Fuba, Palmar: I’m not going back into their filters because I did a lot already, and I know these players talked a lot about the jabber wagon on D1 so I don’t really want to post links on them for no reason.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So I just went through all these players. Why?

It’s certainly possible for mafia to ask questions to jabber. They probably did!

But, it is really hard for me to believe that town joins a vote on jabber, yet doesn’t seem to revisit the issue, talk about its merits with other players, or get some sort of confirmation from jabber.

Pretty much every player in the game discussed the jabber lynch to some extent. Maybe we questioned jabber, or we explained our thoughts on why it could be a natural mistake, a scumslip, what jabber’s followup comments meant to us, etc.

slOosh doesn’t ask any questions to jabber, or really follow up on the lynch. We get his explanation here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#229).
After voting for jabber, slOosh's D1 is questioning other players on why they vote for jabber, talking about Slam & Palmar, etc. Seriously, take a look at his filter and see how little he has to say about the lynch that was there basically the entire day.


Wheres other players expressed doubt through trying to get more information, press jabber for more information, etc.,
If you are town, you (like me) did not know whether jabber was mafia or not. You talked about the lynch, you read jabber's responses, and you probably considered them and wrote something about your reads.

slOosh's d1 reflects indifference to the lynch. I feel that indifference comes from scum.

##Vote: slOosh

Not interacting with him isn't the same thing as indifference. Jabber was in a situation where basically the entirety of town was calling him scum. The best thing to do in this situation is to ease off the pressure so we can see if he can develop some reads and absolve himself. Otherwise all his efforts are put into trying to defend himself for a mistake we now know was innocently made, and cannot be defended. Which is what he ended up doing.

This led to posts like this
On May 28 2014 09:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
I'm just gonna go 1 by 1 and tell what I think of everybody so far
1) Chromatically
Thought his activity was suspicious at first, but rethinking about it now he doesn't seem too bad.
2) 27ninjabunnies
Playing hard, throwing around leads. She could be scummy, but I'm leaning towards town for her. Nothing she's said has jumped out as questionable.
3) Meapak_Ziphh
I agree with gobbledy, that his scatterbrainedness is more about a lack of confidence about his reads than scumm behavior.
4) gobbledydook
no reads
5) jabberwockzerg
That's me! Town, if there seems to be any confusion :D
6) mderg
Not really getting much.
7) HaruRH
Kinda defending me, which is cool of him. A real pal. Don't see why a Mafia would do that at all, so he's clean.
8) sqrtofneg1
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2014 10:17 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
tbh, I'm the reason we're in detention, so I have a lot of pressure on me to carry town to a win now.
So I'm not fine, I'm under pressure.

and then following up with
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2014 10:24 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Or maybe I don't feel the pressure. Maybe I'm scum, for the first time.

You know what really drives me crazy? I must have played over 30 games of irl mafia by now, and I've rolled mafia twice. Cop I've rolled quite a bit of cop, and doctor at least 3 times, but I never rolled mafia.

just kinda seems like a half baked WIFOM attempt from mafia to my (admittedly untrained) eyes
also he has been throwing down a lot without following up on a lot. Probably my frontrunner for scum at this point.
9) slOosh
not getting much
10) Amiko
Good, high quality posts, but no read at this point in time
11) Alakaslam
no read
12) fuba
Defending me, which is great of him. No reason for a Mafia to defend me, so he's clean for me.
13) Palmar
A little scummy, which has been covered but not really at the forefront of my mind.

I'll be happy to answer any questions people have for the next couple hours and attempt to clear my name

In hindsight we see that because his time and focus is bent on something that he admits was a mistake and is indefensible, his post quality dropped. At the time, it's not clear if this is from scum or town, because there isn't too much actual content in here. I wanted to avoid this by not adding onto the grilling of him, and instead watch what he does if left alone.

This is why I started prodding other people as it's more productive than just waiting to see what jabber would say, and also maybe provide avenues for jabber to contribute. In the end jabber wasn't really able to mount any meaningful content so I left my vote on him.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 30 2014 16:27 GMT
#712
Meapak_Ziphh is the correct lynch for today.

First, he puts suspicion on many people without doing it in a clear focused manner. Palmar already pointed out one of the earlier ones
On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".

Welcome to my scum tier.


On May 29 2014 04:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hmm I'm a bit suspect of people trying to develop a second wagon at the same time as they're voting JWZ. Either say you've changed your mind about jwz and explain why or start developing reads for tomorrow.

##Vote: jabberwockzerg
Thought there was a voting thread lol

Here he does the same thing. Instead of saying "hey, making a second wagon for information is a bad idea" he says "you guys look like mafia for doing this". Not only that, but he says 'people' instead of actually calling out names. He is being vague so that if the opportunity arises, he can push that and say "look I called them out first" but if called out for it he can back out without being held responsible.

Next is his really strange sqrt read progression. I point out during the night how his read on sqrt has vacillated back and forth.
On May 30 2014 03:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2014 02:52 slOosh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:45 Palmar wrote:
MZ not everyone in the game is mafia. fuba and haru look bad, jwz is your most likely scumread and you could get behind a lynch on me, and now you're telling sqrtofneg1 that he might be mafia, while in the same breath explaining to him how he can get you to drop your "suspicion".

Welcome to my scum tier.

Actually I didn't call sqrt scum, I was pointing out something that he's done which isn't helpful. I can have him correct that behavior and thus improve the town environment and maybe teach him something at the same time (which is after all the point of the game).


On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this:

On May 28 2014 10:19 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Here's what I think is going to happen, according to the sqrtofneg1 rule.
jwz is gonna be lynched, gonna flip vt.
Palmar is gonna end up scum.

I honestly don't think anyone will move their vote away from jwz. I don't expect anyone to, also.

But I kind of think he's town.


To this:

On May 28 2014 10:25 Chromatically wrote:
sqrt why are you not convincing people to vote for Palmar?


On May 28 2014 10:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Cause I don't think it will happen.
And I also think there's a good chance that jwz is scum too.


You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo.

Oh hey 27NB:
On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote:
On May 28 2014 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
this is quite possibly the finest scumhunting tl has seen in ages


Hey im scumhunting....

So im thinking,

Team for mafia:

Jabber/Sqrt/mderg

Or

Jabber/palmer/mderg

Something like that,

Id lynch both jabber and mderg though

I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet.

So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person.

On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:
On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum?

MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time?

My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here:
On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.

If you're town, I would have expected this

"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."

Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was

"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."

I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread..

I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest.


At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up.

???

That's called a progression of a read sloosh. As you can see, at first I was not suspicious of sqrt and was simply pointing things out about his play for him to fix, then he posted more and I changed my mind because of new information. This is typically how one processes facts in a changing environment. I literally outline what's going on in the second post you quoted.

It goes from "I didn't call sqrt scum" to "I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself" to "I am probably most suspicious of sqrt" and "However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet".

There is of course progression of reads. People post and opinions can change based on such posts. However the progression is interesting because sqrt has, I believe, posted in a consistent manner where nothing seemed exceptionally strange for him. So I ask him for the reason.

On May 30 2014 03:25 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:
What has sqrt done that you would consider him town?

At this point I don't consider him town.

Here's a huge contradiction. The last phrase was "However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet". Meapak here doesn't want to call sqrt town, but at the same time he doesn't want to call him scum. At the same time, sqrt is his focus of choice! Meapak doesn't really care about figuring out sqrt, but wants to be seen as interacting and looking like he is scumhunting.

On May 29 2014 17:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 11:33 Chromatically wrote:
On May 28 2014 19:44 Chromatically wrote:
MZ, what's your reasoning for Palmar being scum?

MZ answer this please, regardless of whether you hold the read now. What was your reasoning at the time?

My reason for wanting to lynch Palmar was stated here:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On May 28 2014 08:57 Palmar wrote:
No you just implied that what he was doing looked like something mafia might do.

If you're town, I would have expected this

"If you leave it vague like this, you're never going to convince anyone of following your example or agreeing with your read."

Because that sentence isn't loaded with agenda, like yours was

"If you leave it vague like this, it makes it seem like you're just trying to throw dirt on him without actually having to take a stand."

I may be reading too much into this, but it's bad form. If you want to affect his playstyle, don't do it in the same breath as you threaten him with a scumread..

I really don't think I threatened him with a scum read at all. I said that something he was doing could be seen as scummy. I never said that I thought he was scum because of what he was doing. And I'm not a fan of your insinuations that I'm calling everyone mafia. I have thus far stated my support for a jwz lynch, discussed that I'm looking at Haru and Fuba as possibilities for scum because of their defense of jwz (they've both responded, I haven't really reevaluated them yet), and I've stated I would support a lynch on you. That was primarily because you were acting like you didn't give a shit which I've seen in the past to be scumpalmar. That's not randomly flinging around accusations as you suggest.


At this point I'm not as convinced of Palmar's scumminess anymore because he's come in and been contributing a lot more than I would have expected out of scum Palmar. At the moment I don't have a burning scum read, I am probably most suspicious of sqrt because of the way he seems to drift with the general opinion of the thread like a willow in the wind. However I'm not sold that makes him scum yet, I wanna see him post for a little while longer before I make my mind up.

This is his general attitude. Stay back and watch, drop in here and there to call him scum (?) or tell him how not to be scum (?), all without actually working to solidify anything in sqrt.

Meapak is taking the backseat and doing nothing.
On May 30 2014 16:42 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Harurh, Palmar is almost certainly town at this point fyi.

imo Amiko's case on sloosh is excellent, I'm curious to see who opposes it.

More sowing suspicion and disruption without actually naming names. If he felt it strong, he should have just slapped his vote on. But he doesn't. He stays back and lax, content to see town do whatever they want as long as it doesn't concern him.

Meapak is scum because he throws around suspicion while being vague and avoiding responsibility, and total laxity regarding his most suspicious read sqrt.

##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 30 2014 22:05 GMT
#727
On May 31 2014 05:07 Amiko wrote:
I’ll look at thread and maybe comment on M_Z, but here’s even more reason to vote slOosh

First look at this post by slOosh, we’ll then talk about how it differs from other players.
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 04:05 slOosh wrote:
On May 29 2014 03:57 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
Maybe jabberwockzerg will be lynched today, maybe not. Either way, I'd rather have the day end where there are two people who reasonably could get lynched. In that case, our votes are more significant because they reflect an actual choice: it means people found one person scummy as compared to another person. If all the votes are on jabberwockzerg, the votes don't tell us much of anything and don't reflect a meaningful choice by the players.

Since some players don't want to vote jabberwockzerg, I want to know who their pick would be.

I think with the deadline as is, if you want to bring up someone else you should do it immediately.


So, when you are offered the idea of a new wagon, you might expect a few responses.
Players might propose some additional wagons, or use the situation to make reads. (ex: 27ninjabunnies, sqrt, fuba)
+ Show Spoiler +

27ninjabunnies: Suggests fuba as a potential other wagon (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=24#471, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=25#496). Suggests me as a potential wagon (as a reaction test) (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=25#486).
Sqrt: Proposed other wagons, even ended up voting on one. Gave some reasons, even if kind of weird, why he jumped around the wagons. Was pushing for second wagons and suggested some.
Fuba: Suggested wagon on gobbledygook (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=28#556)

Players might comment on the idea of other wagons as good or bad. (ex: mderg, M_Z, Palmar)
+ Show Spoiler +

mderg: Comments on my proposal of Haru as a second wagon (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=27#540). Comments on fuba’s proposal of a gobbledygook wagon (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=29#561).
M_Z: Says he is suspicious of players making secondary wagons while voting for jabber (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=26#509). Also discusses Palmar as a lynch candidate, but indicates he is skeptical (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=31#603).
Palmar: Tells us not to raise other wagons (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=29#565) (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=29#572) and comments on the push on himself as an alternate wagon (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=24#468)
Alakaslam: Like Palmar, states he does not want alternate wagons (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=27#533).

Some players don't weigh in on wagons as much, but this is at least somewhat less suspicious because they spend some time defending wagons on themselves (gobbledygook, Haru).
+ Show Spoiler +

gobbledydook doesn’t comment much on the existence of other wagons, but he does defend again fuba’s suggestion of him as an alternate wagon.
HaruRH is kind of similar in that he defends against my points on him, though he does comment some on a potential Palmar wagon it’s limited.
. While I’m not in love with these filters, (I would have liked to see more comments on other wagons) they are still way better looking to me than slOosh.

slOosh’s comments (above) are different.
He doesn’t indicate whether he wants another wagon or not – he waits to see who is proposed
Here are ALL OF SLOOSH’S POSTS that come after we are discussing a second wagon until the vote.

I was going to put this in a spoiler tag, but then I saw how few posts there were so why bother.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 03:38 slOosh wrote:
I assume he was piggybacking on the "seems straightforward" aspect.

@Amiko, what do you mean by second wagon? What does that look like?

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 03:54 slOosh wrote:
Did the term wagon change while I was gone?

Are you guys proposing lynching someone else today?

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 04:05 slOosh wrote:
On May 29 2014 03:57 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
Maybe jabberwockzerg will be lynched today, maybe not. Either way, I'd rather have the day end where there are two people who reasonably could get lynched. In that case, our votes are more significant because they reflect an actual choice: it means people found one person scummy as compared to another person. If all the votes are on jabberwockzerg, the votes don't tell us much of anything and don't reflect a meaningful choice by the players.

Since some players don't want to vote jabberwockzerg, I want to know who their pick would be.

I think with the deadline as is, if you want to bring up someone else you should do it immediately.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2014 04:14 slOosh wrote:
On May 29 2014 04:07 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh:
I'm writing now and seeing what I find. I can post what I have and continue I suppose.
Btw I asked you for a read on Alakaslam a little earlier since a fair number of your posts seemed to focus on him, can you give me any comments?

@27ninjabunnies: Nothing personal bunnies, but I'm going to ignore that post unless you give me anything to write about :x

Oh I must have missed it.

His posting style as is this game seems fine. I was more concerned if he was going to take it all the way ala last game, which is cause for concern as making your posts intentionally harder to read usually only makes sense from scum perspective.


When I raise a wagon (as he says I should do soon) he doesn't even comment on it.

So, as I said before, slOosh is scum because he doesn't weigh in on jabber, who should be a focus for the day.

But, slOosh is also scum because he doesn't weigh in on any of the other wagons (Palmar, Haru, fuba)

Like I said, I didn't weigh in on Jabber because I didn't want to add pressure on him. By the end of the day he didn't produce much and so I didn't feel the need to come in and say "jabber hasn't done anything so I'm keeping my vote on him".

Given that I'm juggling two games, I can't have as a comprehensive attention as I would like to, so I chose to spend the time that I could afford for this game to figure out MZ, and get people's thoughts on him, since other people were being covered but aside from Palmar there weren't that many firm stances on MZ, and personally I felt like he was more likely to be scum than the people brought up.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 30 2014 22:10 GMT
#729
On May 31 2014 05:42 Amiko wrote:
slOosh’s defense is here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=36#711 . I believe his explanation is:
(1) He says he did not push jabber because wanted to see what jabber did if jabber was left alone.
(2) He wanted to push other people, to maybe provide avenues for jabber to contribute.

#1
This isn't that arguable, but it's more likely to come from scum.
Jabber was left alone and he made comments that didn’t help us read him as town. Why would scum want to interject if jabber is doing a good job burying himself?
At least slOosh does concedes that he didn’t push jabber, though, so you don’t need to read his filter to confirm that he didn’t push on jabber.
Further, slOosh doesn't comment or push on jabber's subsequent posts. So, if he actually cared what jabber did, why did he seem to ignore what jabber did?


#2
This is not a good explanation because it is not consistent with his play.
As I pointed out here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=36#716), slOosh really did not push other players, despite a few other wagons forming as options. I don’t see him providing new points on the players or providing a line of questioning that jabber could jump into.


1) Not posting about it =/= ignoring it. I took into consideration of how he acted towards deadline, but didn't find him town enough to come into the thread and try to avert the lynch.

2) Perhaps we have a different understanding of push - I'm not talking about making full blown cases on people, but posting generally about other people to get a better feel for where they are, and see where things don't hold up. Did my plan work? Evidently not. But I don't see the problem here.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 30 2014 22:25 GMT
#730
Ok, gotta head out until evening so I'll be gone for a while.

Could you guys please comment on my actual MZ case?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 31 2014 08:10 GMT
#739
On May 31 2014 15:39 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh
- You did make a defense against my larger case (I don't find it convincing). Do you have any separate response to the points Chrom raised on you from D1?

The context of the quote is bunny's question
On May 28 2014 02:20 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2014 02:09 slOosh wrote:
Seems straightforward.

##Vote: jabberwockzerg

Hi there slOosh.

You are okay with this lynch.

Why?

And do you have anything else to comment?

The slip was straightforward, and when asked for additional comment, I added something else that I saw.

On May 31 2014 15:39 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh
- What do you think is your best post from D1? Or like, the best thing you did D1?

I don't know how to answer this question. I think the best thing thus far is my MZ case.

On May 31 2014 15:39 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh
- Do you have any recent thoughts on Palmar/sqrt/Alakaslam?

Palmar:
I think his night time posting was very reasonable, particularly how he directed town. It reflects he is considering the possibility of death which is something scum don't do. HaruRH's suspicion of him is stymied by the fact that Palmar does indeed not read OPs, so it's not very telling.

sqrt:
I think his style of posting is very fluid and stream of thought, which is difficult for scum to pull off. There are red flags here and there (talking about blues, doing 180s etc.) but it looks like naivete rather than malicious intent. I have a hard time thinking scum could post so unabashedly.

Alakaslam:
His style of posting definitely bothers me at this point, since even though he makes some reads (?), he leaves out his thinking process entirely so it's hard to see where he comes from. Additionally, he has still yet to make any read on Meapak.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
May 31 2014 21:40 GMT
#747
Meapak is scum and skirting by another day because of the wagon on me. Please refer back to my case and don't get sidetracked. Make sure he gets lynched tomorrow. The fact that he comes in to slap his vote despite no one actually asking him why he did it is proof he isn't really attentive to thread.

Pressure gobbles next. His huge post concerning MZ doesn't really seem to have a conclusion, and it's not clear how exactly he is reading MZ as town.

With bunny,
On May 31 2014 13:57 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I mean. Idk. I prob need to read the last few pages, but im super tired... Lol

Yeah, i think ill just post in the morning.

Sloosh, palmer, mz probz scum.

Will discuss later

Find out what she means by this. As someone who was pretty involved day 1, she should question a palmer mz scum team the way they went against each other. Likewise for day 2. This is a very strange post.

I don't think fuba is as scummy as people are making him to be. His reads of MZ and sqrt seem very reasonable in that they aren't leaning hard either way but seem to be developing over time, considering that they could be town / mafia, instead of just assuming that they are one and going with it, which is what mafia do.

Amiko ... I'm not too sure. I could see scum making a strong push for MZ, since he brushes off anything I say about MZ and makes sure the focus is on me, or it could just be misguided townie thinking I'm the stronger lynch. I would be watchful of what his actions relating to non-MZ players are, especially during the next day.

Good luck town. Watch out for busses tomorrow.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 10 2014 07:29 GMT
#1501
Thanks for hosting!

My heart kinda broke when I saw these posts
On May 29 2014 09:10 jabberwockzerg wrote:
## vote: Meapak_Ziphh
On May 29 2014 09:10 jabberwockzerg wrote:
come on bold
##vote: Meapak_Ziphh


I feel like a competent scum team will definitely punish "newbie" town play like this game, so it might be a bit rough on them. I think jabber took it well but being mislynched / misunderstood feels pretty bad and I dunno ... maybe a "downside" so to speak. Like, when I play IRL mafia, I always shoot someone who I know "can take it" since the groups I play with usually have "new" people who I'd rather let them play the game. As scum I felt supporting the jabber lynch was the good play, but I didn't enjoy lynching him for his "mistake". Maybe it's just tough love, I dunno.

I think Palmar played very well as a player (participant). The way he was helpful in addressing some cases such as sqrt's against him, and the way he deconstructed the wagon against him I think was top notch. It was done in a friendly tone and manner, explaining the issues with the argument opposed to attacking the player etc. Very much what I would desire in a mixed experienced player / newbie game. Of course in game coaching is a bit tougher since there is always the element of doubt / distrust, but I think Palmar did splendidly. Big props
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 10 2014 07:34 GMT
#1502
On June 05 2014 19:05 Palmar wrote:
2) Mderg also addresses this, but he does it in a very particular way, I'll quote him: "Me being scum only makes sense, if jabber flips town. I could see mafia reasons for that." I hope I'm not the only one who noticed that if mderg is mafia, he made a super ballsy play of literally planting the idea that he may be mafia based on something he already knew would come true. Hell townies don't like to claim they might be mafia, mafia absolutely hates doing it. It's really, really hard for me to believe that mderg would be capable of such an advanced mafia play.

Also, still don't completely understand this. Town don't like doing it, neither does mafia. Is he more likely to be town because mafia dislike doing it so much more?
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 10 2014 07:38 GMT
#1504
I think an MZ lynch D2 would have been very interesting. I was hoping gobbles would drop by for a vote, or even mderg to switch, cause I didn't think it would look that bad.

It would have opened up the fake claim as watcher option too

I think I can handle 2 games of mafia at once. Just not two games as mafia >.<;
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 10 2014 17:21 GMT
#1514
On June 10 2014 19:30 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2014 16:29 slOosh wrote:
Thanks for hosting!

My heart kinda broke when I saw these posts
On May 29 2014 09:10 jabberwockzerg wrote:
## vote: Meapak_Ziphh
On May 29 2014 09:10 jabberwockzerg wrote:
come on bold
##vote: Meapak_Ziphh


I feel like a competent scum team will definitely punish "newbie" town play like this game, so it might be a bit rough on them. I think jabber took it well but being mislynched / misunderstood feels pretty bad and I dunno ... maybe a "downside" so to speak. Like, when I play IRL mafia, I always shoot someone who I know "can take it" since the groups I play with usually have "new" people who I'd rather let them play the game. As scum I felt supporting the jabber lynch was the good play, but I didn't enjoy lynching him for his "mistake". Maybe it's just tough love, I dunno.

It's not just you, I don't like lynches like that either. It's much easier to mislynch townies when there's genuine needle or it'd be funny or something. Unfortunately you just gotta suck it up because you gotta pick on the weak targets. Although mislynching a strong player at lylo is about as good as it gets when you're mafia

Oh yea, that's part of the game. Just mentioning in the context of a mixed player base, as a potential (?) downside. It would suck for a brand new player to get super mislynched, and from that position it is really hard to come back and "prove" yourself, since it's already ingrained in town's mind that you will be lynched. That said, scum didn't really push the wagon as much as offering no resistance (or in fact did offer resistance), so I dunno maybe this is something that would happen in all games regardless of player base.
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 7m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
trigger 230
ProTech81
EnDerr 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8146
Sea 3178
Hyuk 1753
Rain 1308
Snow 433
Soulkey 178
HiyA 136
PianO 118
Zeus 117
sorry 92
[ Show more ]
hero 46
Rush 46
TY 43
Terrorterran 26
Nal_rA 21
Yoon 16
Noble 16
IntoTheRainbow 11
zelot 6
Barracks 0
Dota 2
Gorgc6179
qojqva3343
Fuzer 183
League of Legends
Dendi1432
Counter-Strike
fl0m6476
olofmeister2619
Foxcn276
rGuardiaN129
Super Smash Bros
Chillindude23
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor149
Other Games
singsing2730
FrodaN835
C9.Mang0628
Beastyqt454
Mlord430
crisheroes429
Hui .214
ArmadaUGS137
Mew2King123
elazer101
XaKoH 91
Trikslyr73
KnowMe63
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV690
Other Games
BasetradeTV28
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3538
• lizZardDota276
League of Legends
• Nemesis4390
• Jankos3189
• TFBlade1415
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 7m
ArT vs ReBellioN
HonMonO vs Ziomek
Shameless vs LunaSea
MilkiCow vs GgMaChine
Moja vs HiGhDrA
Jumy vs TBD
Demi vs NightPhoenix
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
8h 7m
OSC
8h 7m
WardiTV Invitational
19h 7m
OSC
21h 7m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 11h
SOOP
1d 17h
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
1d 18h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 19h
Cheesadelphia
1d 23h
[ Show More ]
CSO Cup
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.