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Civility Please | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On December 04 2013 16:13 Alakaslam wrote: Whitewing! I haven't seen you around in- Well, a long time! This goes back b4 Blazinghand folks Howdy! >_> I've been around, just not this subforum. Read a few games every once in a while, was just way too negative for my tastes. I didn't feel like noobing it up and getting bitched at. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On December 05 2013 04:14 Whitewing wrote: Howdy! >_> I've been around, just not this subforum. Read a few games every once in a while, was just way too negative for my tastes. I didn't feel like noobing it up and getting bitched at. I think you are misconstructing the rage. Besides the fact that there are newbie games, if you put in a good effort to try and solve the game, you will still be getting town credit and helping the team, even if you are wrong or have a bad case. Don't mistake it with not trying enough and getting yelled at because you were lurking and not trying to solve the game. | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
Playing games in a venomous environment is not fun. But then again it is hard to not get emotionally involved if you take the game seriously. The problem is that things escalate so quickly. Someone calls someone bad, then that someone replies with you fucking suck -> STFU retard -> please quit mafia etc etc. This is all within one game, then comes the tension that have been built up from previous games and boom you got a playergroup where many players can’t stand eachother. Is there a solution to this, other than stricter policies regarding player behavior, I think not. An interesting “project” though would be to run a series of “nice-guy” mafia where the same players agrees to play a set number of games together with some predetermined rules on how to behave. For instance a rule could be: you are not allowed to call anyone dumb, stupid or bad, but will have to use some sort of diplomacy to express your feelings. So instead of writing: “If you believe I am scum you are either bad or scum, your arguments sucks big time and everything you write is illogical” you will have to come up with something like: “You and me probably disagree about what makes someone scum or not, I especially disagree with your argument 1, 2 and 4, because of a, b, c”. It might not be a great example, and yeah it might be a bit too much carebear but at least it doesn’t lay the groundworks for some heavy shitslinging and a poisonous environment. Most people wouldn’t be interested in this though as it tie them down too much (it also limits the scumteam, who want to cause a bad environment), but if having a poisonous environment is a problem then testing something like this out can’t do any harm. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 05 2013 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote: Honestly mods should just show no mercy. you get one warning/slip up post and then the second time you are gone. Even though hogwarts mafia was pretty meh in turns of gameplay, it showed how modding should be done to some degree. You can't just let the game run rampant or it is deemed acceptable. Any other part of teamliquid most of this stuff is auto-ban, let's set the same precedent here. Pretty much this. Mods/hosts just need to enforce behavioral rules more actively. I consider myself pretty lenient on in-thread behavior, and I would absolutely modkill players for some of the posts in this and other recent games. We can promise "as a community" to fix attitude problems all we want, but at the end of the day, those with power need to let players know what will and will not be tolerated. | ||
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Tunkeg
Norway1235 Posts
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Mid or Feed
Korea (South)250 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
I don't recall ever being personally attacked in 40+ games, so if you treat others with respect, I don't think it really ever becomes an issue. On December 05 2013 05:23 Tunkeg wrote: An interesting “project” though would be to run a series of “nice-guy” mafia where the same players agrees to play a set number of games together with some predetermined rules on how to behave. For instance a rule could be: you are not allowed to call anyone dumb, stupid or bad, but will have to use some sort of diplomacy to express your feelings. Technically, I think that rule applies to all games already. | ||
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Mid or Feed
Korea (South)250 Posts
On December 05 2013 06:50 marvellosity wrote: I think a pretty firm warning when things look like they're going south should mostly do the trick. Yes and no, that may solve the issue at the time in that specific game, but it doesn't solve the overall wider issue. I can name 4-5 players who have been actively discouraged from playing on TL mafia because of this kind of thing, and a warning in every game when (because it is inevitable) it happens and possible modkills does nothing. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 05 2013 07:51 Mid or Feed wrote: Yes and no, that may solve the issue at the time in that specific game, but it doesn't solve the overall wider issue. I can name 4-5 players who have been actively discouraged from playing on TL mafia because of this kind of thing, and a warning in every game when (because it is inevitable) it happens and possible modkills does nothing. Some people just aren't suited to mafia. It's adversarial, and it's not for everyone. imo the level it gets at for a first warning isn't so bad. And if that's as heated as it gets then that's fine to me. | ||
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Mid or Feed
Korea (South)250 Posts
On December 05 2013 07:51 kitaman27 wrote: From my experience, if you're bothered by the words tone that someone uses, simply reply to the post letting them know that you are bothered by it and move on. Tell someone that you're upset or having a bad day and I think most people are decent enough to understand. If they continue, then request host intervention privately and take a break from the thread to avoid confrontation. I don't recall ever being personally attacked in 40+ games, so if you treat others with respect, I don't think it really ever becomes an issue. Technically, I think that rule applies to all games already. Kita, that's also because you as a player have no reason to ever be the target of anyone's rage or insults. You play the game the way people expect. You also expect everyone to act rationally. Unless there is a way to actively enforce that everyone is active all the time and no one plays perceivedly against their wincons, then it's not an issue. Of course I don't really see a way that's going to happen. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30775 Posts
People get annoyed not only at others logic but due to the fact that people don't participate when the other person is so invested, this is partly what happened in bttb. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On December 05 2013 07:54 Mid or Feed wrote: Kita, that's also because you as a player have no reason to ever be the target of anyone's rage or insults. You play the game the way people expect. Wave, that statement offends me! Please take it back. Allow me to provide a list of counter-examples, which I've managed to do without ever being personally attacked: Fake claimed that a detective contacted me to get a player lynched. Fake claimed detective to get a player lynched. Claimed detective at lylo, but refused to reveal my check for the first 40 hours, frusterating the other town members to the point that they voted without me in an instant majority setup. As a compulsive town vig, shot a player that the town unanimously agreed was town not once, but twice, forcing the town roleblocker to stop me twice. Lynched a player that I thought was town as town at LYLO (although still playing towards my win condition) Targeted myself with kp as mafia (Again still playing towards my win condtion) Gave a mafia scumbuddy bonus objectives to accomplish to the annoyance of another Taunted the thread to the point where I was day vig'd three times in the same cycle Backstabbed a third party player simply because I didn't want to work with them Bussed a scum buddy against their wishes at LYLO Forgotten to submit a night action Claimed mafia to the rival mafia faction Gone afk for extended periods of time without warning Refused to vote with town because I was being incredibly stubborn Threw a game away because I didn't know it was possible for third party players to exist Fake claimed bomberman for personal amusement Accidentally killed the same player by collateral damage two games in a row Posted only in song lyrics multiple games | ||
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Mid or Feed
Korea (South)250 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On December 05 2013 08:53 Mid or Feed wrote: Jeez statement retracted I guess. I've never seen you do any of that lol. Yeah, lol. In my games with Kitamin he has been the epitome of civil discourse. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
The real irony of it is that in PTP for he as 3p contacted me as scum to form an alliance. I still really wanted that alliance to work out but in the least recognized that we needed him as much as he needed us. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On December 05 2013 08:50 kitaman27 wrote: Wave, that statement offends me! Please take it back. Allow me to provide a list of counter-examples, which I've managed to do without ever being personally attacked: Fake claimed that a detective contacted me to get a player lynched. Fake claimed detective to get a player lynched. Claimed detective at lylo, but refused to reveal my check for the first 40 hours, frusterating the other town members to the point that they voted without me in an instant majority setup. As a compulsive town vig, shot a player that the town unanimously agreed was town not once, but twice, forcing the town roleblocker to stop me twice. Lynched a player that I thought was town as town at LYLO (although still playing towards my win condition) Targeted myself with kp as mafia (Again still playing towards my win condtion) Gave a mafia scumbuddy bonus objectives to accomplish to the annoyance of another Taunted the thread to the point where I was day vig'd three times in the same cycle Backstabbed a third party player simply because I didn't want to work with them Bussed a scum buddy against their wishes at LYLO Forgotten to submit a night action Claimed mafia to the rival mafia faction Gone afk for extended periods of time without warning Refused to vote with town because I was being incredibly stubborn Threw a game away because I didn't know it was possible for third party players to exist Fake claimed bomberman for personal amusement Accidentally killed the same player by collateral damage two games in a row I too, am guilty of some of these, and I don't think I have made a real enemy playing mafia. I think you just have to have a certain skin to play mafia in general. Being easily offended or take what someone says to seriously probably means you should play something else. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On December 05 2013 05:23 Tunkeg wrote: I think GM is spot on here. An interesting “project” though would be to run a series of “nice-guy” mafia where the same players agrees to play a set number of games together with some predetermined rules on how to behave. For instance a rule could be: you are not allowed to call anyone dumb, stupid or bad, but will have to use some sort of diplomacy to express your feelings. So instead of writing: “If you believe I am scum you are either bad or scum, your arguments sucks big time and everything you write is illogical” you will have to come up with something like: “You and me probably disagree about what makes someone scum or not, I especially disagree with your argument 1, 2 and 4, because of a, b, c”. It might not be a great example, and yeah it might be a bit too much carebear but at least it doesn’t lay the groundworks for some heavy shitslinging and a poisonous environment. I think you MAY only have to go this far. “If you believe I am scum you are either playing badly or scum, your arguments sucks big time and everything you have written There is one subtle distinction: The above English contains the knowledge that the author is aware they are in game with a beginning and an end. It is no longer about making out the other PERSON *is* bad. Intent. + Show Spoiler + The above to me is still as scummy Accusation, as it in no way states its basis. "OMUGUS you", would largely be its direct logical equivalent. If scum come at you with the above, asking for specific examples, or even as they claimed "everything was illogical", then you get to choose anything that was not to refute it. SHoing anything was logical shows they are guilding the lilly and exaggerating the size of their case. Playing badly, is a state that may end. Not a claim about the nature of the person. have written is statement about what you saw not a blanket prediction about everything that has ever or perhaps even will ever be written is bad. HOWEVER Dont get me wrong, your care bear approach may WELL be a better strategy. If even in a current game you charge in guns blazing and abusive. The scum get to fake being offended and storming off without ever answering your point. Being polite gives them one less way out. | ||
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