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Back To The Basics Postgame Analysis - Page 10

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Civility Please
AxleGreaser
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia1154 Posts
December 10 2013 18:00 GMT
#181
On December 11 2013 02:52 marvellosity wrote:
I hate silent nights, for the large reason that it leaves me unable to comment on a flip and what it means before my fairly likely upcoming death.

If people seriously wanted to try it, then
Show nested quote +
In any case if you really want to make nights more quiet but want to leave in last wills, probably the easist solution is the night is silent for 23 hours and in the last hour, people can't change their night actions any more, but CAN talk.

this looks like a reasonable sort of compromise.

I just get itchy when I can't post :p



need that mafia fix?
Axle(OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered)Greaser
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
December 10 2013 18:02 GMT
#182
Just make people play for their wincon once again.
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
December 10 2013 18:06 GMT
#183
On December 11 2013 03:02 Kurumi wrote:
Just make people play for their wincon once again.


hey, hey, settle down buddy, let's not get too crazy with these new ideas here
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
December 10 2013 18:09 GMT
#184
On December 11 2013 03:06 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 03:02 Kurumi wrote:
Just make people play for their wincon once again.


hey, hey, settle down buddy, let's not get too crazy with these new ideas here

I am just repeating what BC said, because the discussion drifted on the spam topic, while you can't beat spam in any meaningful way besides making people to play how they should, instead of introducing arbitrary rules.
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
AxleGreaser
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia1154 Posts
December 10 2013 18:11 GMT
#185
On December 11 2013 02:31 Blazinghand wrote:
I would not include any such "last will" rule in my silent night games, though I see why they'd be attractive. Since I usually only run silent night in IML games it's not like town doesn't already have a systematic advantage. I feel comfortable taking away the last will in that situation. I also think the whole idea of posting last-second reads before the flip is kind of janky anyways. I strongly prefer the last hour of the night to either be "you can change your actions but can't post" or "you can post but can't change your actions"-- either way gets rid of the insanity of trying to post as close as possible to the day post.


I have an implicit dislike of game rules that result in "trying to post as close as possible to the day post."
which then mean anyone who hash the capability to rearrange the RL around the game gets yet more advantage.
needing to turn up for lynch deadlines is unavoidable.

Removing the need to make last minute reads posts halves the number of deadlines where RL must get out of the way of must be in the thread at deadline.

So i am with these "I strongly prefer the last hour of the night to either be "you can change your actions but can't post" or "you can post but can't change your actions"-- either way"

The recent (second) champs game which on the final day required all the scum team to be in thread and all make their vote in the last final minute just in case the seemingly AFK townies were actually actively lurking... or whatever it was that made the scum team have to goto such mechanical (and un mafia like) lengths to get the result.

For me mafia is about the game, not can you arrange to be there to drop your post in the last minute or so of the day.
(23+1) helps that a fair bit.
Axle(OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered)Greaser
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
December 10 2013 18:31 GMT
#186
I mean obviously I can't control the setup of a game unless I'm the host, but I'll just say that like people spamming or lurking or whatever is not even close to the worst "against wincon" or "bad" play I have to personally deal with. I have the unique fortune of being the shenanigan king so I can do what I want and always catch scum but I understand that not everyone is on my level hue hue hue

seriously though i'll consider some kind of semi nightless thing for extractor trick mini and see how it works
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Mid or Feed
Profile Joined November 2013
Korea (South)250 Posts
December 10 2013 18:34 GMT
#187
On December 11 2013 03:09 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 03:06 Blazinghand wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:02 Kurumi wrote:
Just make people play for their wincon once again.


hey, hey, settle down buddy, let's not get too crazy with these new ideas here

I am just repeating what BC said, because the discussion drifted on the spam topic, while you can't beat spam in any meaningful way besides making people to play how they should, instead of introducing arbitrary rules.

And how exactly do you 'make' people play how they should?
Me mid or AFK nubs nubs nubs
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
December 10 2013 20:01 GMT
#188
On December 11 2013 03:34 Mid or Feed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 03:09 Kurumi wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:06 Blazinghand wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:02 Kurumi wrote:
Just make people play for their wincon once again.


hey, hey, settle down buddy, let's not get too crazy with these new ideas here

I am just repeating what BC said, because the discussion drifted on the spam topic, while you can't beat spam in any meaningful way besides making people to play how they should, instead of introducing arbitrary rules.

And how exactly do you 'make' people play how they should?


Anyone caught actively playing against their win con is auto modkilled / banned. Obviously this is going to be subjective to the mods but seriously. Watching people go into a game and troll to shit while not posting anything meaningful is insanely frustrating.

This is coming from a guy who has watched players make justifications that townies are allowed to be "anti town". If anyone in the town is repeatedly "anti town" or however people want to justify it they die. A town members job is to get scum lynched and make it obvious that they are town and thus shouldnt be lynched. People if they join a game should be trying. There are other people who might or would have made better use of your slot if all your going to do is lurk. Don't have the time required to play in a game? don't join.


Seriously, spam isn't that much of an issue. Even skimming a thread you can spot posts that feel wrong and you can filter the player. Its incredibly easy to still play a game with a ton of spam. Is it frustrating to do? Yes, but its doable. No one wants to play with people who don't play to their win conditions.
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
Mid or Feed
Profile Joined November 2013
Korea (South)250 Posts
December 10 2013 20:10 GMT
#189
On December 11 2013 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 03:34 Mid or Feed wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:09 Kurumi wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:06 Blazinghand wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:02 Kurumi wrote:
Just make people play for their wincon once again.


hey, hey, settle down buddy, let's not get too crazy with these new ideas here

I am just repeating what BC said, because the discussion drifted on the spam topic, while you can't beat spam in any meaningful way besides making people to play how they should, instead of introducing arbitrary rules.

And how exactly do you 'make' people play how they should?


Anyone caught actively playing against their win con is auto modkilled / banned. Obviously this is going to be subjective to the mods but seriously. Watching people go into a game and troll to shit while not posting anything meaningful is insanely frustrating.

This is coming from a guy who has watched players make justifications that townies are allowed to be "anti town". If anyone in the town is repeatedly "anti town" or however people want to justify it they die. A town members job is to get scum lynched and make it obvious that they are town and thus shouldnt be lynched. People if they join a game should be trying. There are other people who might or would have made better use of your slot if all your going to do is lurk. Don't have the time required to play in a game? don't join.


Seriously, spam isn't that much of an issue. Even skimming a thread you can spot posts that feel wrong and you can filter the player. Its incredibly easy to still play a game with a ton of spam. Is it frustrating to do? Yes, but its doable. No one wants to play with people who don't play to their win conditions.

This is probably the sentiment I can get most behind. Problem is unless there is some guideline or new ruleset laid down, that's all going to be very subjective and some people are going to find themselves modkilled in certain games and not in others. It's part of the reason hosts in general are so lax towards what they let slide in the first place---it's very hard to lay down the law when a lesser precedent has been set and you have to fight/argue with people every time you make a call.

Can we have some sort of extraneous 'signup list' for people who acknowledge that they will always try when playing a game and always play towards their wincons? I mean....I could probably make such a list myself after playing with almost everyone here, but then of course you run into the inability to fill games....
I'm only half serious about the above.
Me mid or AFK nubs nubs nubs
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
December 10 2013 20:16 GMT
#190
On December 11 2013 05:10 Mid or Feed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:34 Mid or Feed wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:09 Kurumi wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:06 Blazinghand wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:02 Kurumi wrote:
Just make people play for their wincon once again.


hey, hey, settle down buddy, let's not get too crazy with these new ideas here

I am just repeating what BC said, because the discussion drifted on the spam topic, while you can't beat spam in any meaningful way besides making people to play how they should, instead of introducing arbitrary rules.

And how exactly do you 'make' people play how they should?


Anyone caught actively playing against their win con is auto modkilled / banned. Obviously this is going to be subjective to the mods but seriously. Watching people go into a game and troll to shit while not posting anything meaningful is insanely frustrating.

This is coming from a guy who has watched players make justifications that townies are allowed to be "anti town". If anyone in the town is repeatedly "anti town" or however people want to justify it they die. A town members job is to get scum lynched and make it obvious that they are town and thus shouldnt be lynched. People if they join a game should be trying. There are other people who might or would have made better use of your slot if all your going to do is lurk. Don't have the time required to play in a game? don't join.


Seriously, spam isn't that much of an issue. Even skimming a thread you can spot posts that feel wrong and you can filter the player. Its incredibly easy to still play a game with a ton of spam. Is it frustrating to do? Yes, but its doable. No one wants to play with people who don't play to their win conditions.

This is probably the sentiment I can get most behind. Problem is unless there is some guideline or new ruleset laid down, that's all going to be very subjective and some people are going to find themselves modkilled in certain games and not in others. It's part of the reason hosts in general are so lax towards what they let slide in the first place---it's very hard to lay down the law when a lesser precedent has been set and you have to fight/argue with people every time you make a call.

Can we have some sort of extraneous 'signup list' for people who acknowledge that they will always try when playing a game and always play towards their wincons? I mean....I could probably make such a list myself after playing with almost everyone here, but then of course you run into the inability to fill games....
I'm only half serious about the above.


The only thing I can see is each host giving a very accurate writeup in each of their own OP's of what is and isn't acceptable behaviour in terms of playing. I know that as a host I am very lenient on spamming and likely one of the worst hosts for allowing people to be douchebags to eachother provided it can be justified within the confines of the game, however I would argue I would be one of the worst now on forcing people to play to win con. If hosts just set down what the rule of law is in their own games or if a group of hosts who are all held in decent regard come together to pull out a reasonable set of rules all games can follow that could work.
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
December 10 2013 22:38 GMT
#191
On December 11 2013 03:02 Kurumi wrote:
Just make people play for their wincon once again.


I don't think you have a leg to stand on there kuru.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
December 10 2013 23:02 GMT
#192
I haven't played DOTA in a long time but "Mid or Feed" is such a good name hahaha
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-11 00:42:31
December 11 2013 00:41 GMT
#193
On December 11 2013 07:38 Promethelax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 03:02 Kurumi wrote:
Just make people play for their wincon once again.


I don't think you have a leg to stand on there kuru.

Yeah, sadly, despite my playstyle I have always tried to solve the game. Did I make meaningless posts? Yes I did. Did I tunnel people? Yes, I did. Did I care about the games I were in? Abso-fucking-lutely, wouldn't flip on Bugs or Layabout if I did not care. I worked on my playstyle as seen in my smurf game as The Milkman, where I was shot by a scum dayvig day two. I am not the best mafia player ever, hell I think my scum game is awful and I should be shamed for it everytime someone comes up with a filter of that.
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Mid or Feed
Profile Joined November 2013
Korea (South)250 Posts
December 11 2013 01:07 GMT
#194
On December 11 2013 09:41 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 07:38 Promethelax wrote:
On December 11 2013 03:02 Kurumi wrote:
Just make people play for their wincon once again.


I don't think you have a leg to stand on there kuru.

Yeah, sadly, despite my playstyle I have always tried to solve the game. Did I make meaningless posts? Yes I did. Did I tunnel people? Yes, I did. Did I care about the games I were in? Abso-fucking-lutely, wouldn't flip on Bugs or Layabout if I did not care. I worked on my playstyle as seen in my smurf game as The Milkman, where I was shot by a scum dayvig day two. I am not the best mafia player ever, hell I think my scum game is awful and I should be shamed for it everytime someone comes up with a filter of that.

And yet....
Me mid or AFK nubs nubs nubs
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-16 14:22:01
December 16 2013 14:21 GMT
#195
On December 11 2013 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Seriously, spam isn't that much of an issue. Even skimming a thread you can spot posts that feel wrong and you can filter the player. Its incredibly easy to still play a game with a ton of spam. Is it frustrating to do? Yes, but its doable. No one wants to play with people who don't play to their win conditions.


But it says in almost every OP you have to read the WHOLE thread.

In actuality there is no problem with current games. This thread is just a giant ineffectual circle jerk, which is fine.
Here's how I would do it if I were hosting. first time someone does something I deem inappropriate, they get a warning. second time, they get a modkill. What is so hard about that??
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
December 16 2013 14:24 GMT
#196
On December 16 2013 23:21 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2013 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Seriously, spam isn't that much of an issue. Even skimming a thread you can spot posts that feel wrong and you can filter the player. Its incredibly easy to still play a game with a ton of spam. Is it frustrating to do? Yes, but its doable. No one wants to play with people who don't play to their win conditions.


But it says in almost every OP you have to read the WHOLE thread.

In actuality there is no problem with current games. This thread is just a giant ineffectual circle jerk, which is fine.
Here's how I would do it if I were hosting. first time someone does something I deem inappropriate, they get a warning. second time, they get a modkill. What is so hard about that??

I dunno about you but if I did that I'd be handing out a whole lot of modkills - which is hardly good for the game.
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
December 16 2013 14:44 GMT
#197
On December 16 2013 23:24 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2013 23:21 kushm4sta wrote:
On December 11 2013 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Seriously, spam isn't that much of an issue. Even skimming a thread you can spot posts that feel wrong and you can filter the player. Its incredibly easy to still play a game with a ton of spam. Is it frustrating to do? Yes, but its doable. No one wants to play with people who don't play to their win conditions.


But it says in almost every OP you have to read the WHOLE thread.

In actuality there is no problem with current games. This thread is just a giant ineffectual circle jerk, which is fine.
Here's how I would do it if I were hosting. first time someone does something I deem inappropriate, they get a warning. second time, they get a modkill. What is so hard about that??

I dunno about you but if I did that I'd be handing out a whole lot of modkills - which is hardly good for the game.


your game might get ruined, but all those people who were modkilled will have to sit out 1 game, so that will teach them manners and the future games will be better.
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
December 16 2013 15:10 GMT
#198
On December 16 2013 23:44 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2013 23:24 Aquanim wrote:
On December 16 2013 23:21 kushm4sta wrote:
On December 11 2013 05:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Seriously, spam isn't that much of an issue. Even skimming a thread you can spot posts that feel wrong and you can filter the player. Its incredibly easy to still play a game with a ton of spam. Is it frustrating to do? Yes, but its doable. No one wants to play with people who don't play to their win conditions.


But it says in almost every OP you have to read the WHOLE thread.

In actuality there is no problem with current games. This thread is just a giant ineffectual circle jerk, which is fine.
Here's how I would do it if I were hosting. first time someone does something I deem inappropriate, they get a warning. second time, they get a modkill. What is so hard about that??

I dunno about you but if I did that I'd be handing out a whole lot of modkills - which is hardly good for the game.


your game might get ruined, but all those people who were modkilled will have to sit out 1 game, so that will teach them manners and the future games will be better.

Yes, but what happens when the entire forum has sat out.
How do games progress, tr0lolololol0
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