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On September 19 2013 00:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 00:38 Pandain wrote:On September 19 2013 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:29 Pandain wrote:
Actually your right, if Vayne was role blocked he couldn't have shot. Doesn't change the fact that Zealos is still the best lynch.
Don't understand how you can defend someone who's play so drastically differs from his town play in previous games. Zealos isn't a town lurker, or at least a town non contributing person. He's a mafia one, etc mtg mafia.
Why would you go off worse reads when blue roles will provide us more info later on Zealos might be SK but i want to lynch scum now because it gives us better connections to the last scum. Zealos is not mafia because of D1 votes. If you think Zealos is sk then lynch him to lower kp. He also can clearly be mafia to day one votes and you ignore context otherwise. Okay so Zealos is mafia and Blazinghand last minute switches to lynch a scumbuddy instead of lynching town!blubbers? Bullshiiiiitttt..
It's not certain though it might point to him then being SK.
I have devoted already too much of my time to this, if you can't see regardless ignoring meta hat Zealos is the best lynch the. I don't have time to convince you.
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On September 19 2013 00:40 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 00:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:27 Grackaroni wrote:On September 19 2013 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 18 2013 23:58 Grackaroni wrote:On September 18 2013 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 18 2013 23:50 Grackaroni wrote:On September 18 2013 23:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 18 2013 23:36 Grackaroni wrote:On September 18 2013 23:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Grackaroni actually after re-examining the end of D1 your vote-switch is fucking suspicious. You have your vote on scum. Then you sheep Pandain (your former scumread) to someone else because "he made some good posts and you think he is town". Because he had valid points and confidently expressed them. The manner in which Oats/WoS/Umasi planted their votes on BH at the time and then disappeared when nobody was pushing hard for his lynch with a well-written case made me think it was more likely that some players in that group were scum just pawning off their vote and that it was not a scum lynch. First of all it was me/Umasi/WoS who voted for OP at thet time. Oats had voted earlier, and gave reasons for his vote, the reasons were good. You also did agree with me earlier on when i talked about OP! What you just said is simply not true. ...as for OP, most of my reasoning is coming from Rayn but I did say before my dislike of OP's posting and added in my own points. Then there is this: On September 14 2013 06:51 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm voting Zealous. Pandain is town and he has good points. What exactly were those good points Pandain brought up? you voting for OP wasn't a suspicious vote because you had already started the case on him earlier in your filter. Oats kind of pushed him earlier but not nearly enough to convince others to vote for him. The big post Pandain made about the votes falling in on OP too easily and the lack of people vocally defending OP. And you bought that at face value given that: 1) You were suspicious of Pandain 2) Pandain was right there defending OP 3) At early on in the game when i voted for OP and gave my reasoning (which was in fact exactly what made people vote for him in the end) there were a lot of people arguing against OP being scum. Makes sense how? 1 and 2) Scum basically never come out like this and start hard defending a teammate this vocally. They think it will make them appear too scummy. 3) I don't remember anyone arguing that they thought Op wasn't scum except Koshi. Okay this is the chain of events in chronological order: You change your vote on OP and give a reasoning for it. Oats makes a case on OP and votes for him. Then me/Umasi/WoS vote for OP. You have a scumread on SnB and Pandain. SnB starts a wagon on Zealos. Pandain joins the Zealos wagon and says "there is no resistance to OP lynch". What do you do after that? You agree with you scumread on a wagon that's been pushed by your other scumread! for what, "because there is no resistance on the dude's lynch i think is scum, besides the other two dudes i think are scum". What do you need, do your town reads need to oppose a scumlynch for you to think the lynch is in fact on scum? Your voting behavior on D1 makes absolutely zero sense. I even indicated earlier that Zealos was scummy and that I was going to consider switching on to him. Pandain's post and the easy flow of unexpected vote were enough to make me uncomfortable with the lynch and prompted me to switch. What doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that you have three scumreads. OP, Pandain, SnB. You switch from your scumread to another person who is pushed by both of your other scumreads, while the wagon you were on has zero scumreads of yours.. The reasoning is "noone is agruing against OP lynch". :p ugh, It's so obvious that I wasn't suspicious of Pandain anymore because of the posts he was making when I switched on to Zealos. I'm pretty sure I even directly wrote that guy is town. i think even you agreed that Pandain was likely town from those posts pushing people off of the BH wagon.
lol no, i thought he was town because of how he argued with me on SnB. I think he looks terribad from his voteswitch and his reads change on N1.
You say you were not suspicious of Pandain any more. I asked your reasoning. You pointed out the post where he pushed out people from voting for OP. I dunno how you can drop your scumread on him based on him defending BH. Your scumread is defending your scumread, he gets a town read from you based on that. What gives?
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Pandain, zealos IS NOT SCUM. He could very very easily be 3p (I half wanna say jester lol). If you can PROVE that he is the SK (maybe, say, SnB was pushing him or somethign) then we can talk but if you want to lynch him you have to prove him the SK.
Stop saying "this looks like his scum game" because he aint scum.
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On September 19 2013 00:42 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 00:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:38 Pandain wrote:On September 19 2013 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:29 Pandain wrote:
Actually your right, if Vayne was role blocked he couldn't have shot. Doesn't change the fact that Zealos is still the best lynch.
Don't understand how you can defend someone who's play so drastically differs from his town play in previous games. Zealos isn't a town lurker, or at least a town non contributing person. He's a mafia one, etc mtg mafia.
Why would you go off worse reads when blue roles will provide us more info later on Zealos might be SK but i want to lynch scum now because it gives us better connections to the last scum. Zealos is not mafia because of D1 votes. If you think Zealos is sk then lynch him to lower kp. He also can clearly be mafia to day one votes and you ignore context otherwise. Okay so Zealos is mafia and Blazinghand last minute switches to lynch a scumbuddy instead of lynching town!blubbers? Bullshiiiiitttt.. It's not certain though it might point to him then being SK. I have devoted already too much of my time to this, if you can't see regardless ignoring meta hat Zealos is the best lynch the. I don't have time to convince you.
I am not going to vote for Zealos. You need to convince others.
What do you think about what i wrote on Grackaroni?
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this game just got really stupid.
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On September 19 2013 00:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
this game just got really stupid.
Elaborate please.
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Pandain is pushing town. Rayn and others are pushing town.
Whats going on Rayn? Why not kill VA?
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Compact read development of why grack and pandain are scum together.
On September 12 2013 08:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
that's actually an interesting quote you just responded to SnB, I missed that.
@grackaroni why specifically were you concerned with what SnB thought of me? Sounds like trying to see if you should jump on the wagon too at some point.
On September 13 2013 04:28 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:25 Koshi wrote:
I was suspicious of rayn in Persona. Just not on day 1.
VA is making a dumb argument for lynching me / rayn. VA doesn't do that much. you and grack were the ones to jump on panda's opening post and that's probably my biggest scumtell in this game so far. I don't think you should downplay that my friend.
(pandain association, seeing a scum partner's opening post as scummy due to outside knowledge)
On September 14 2013 03:06 VayneAuthority wrote:
oh and some one mentioned how that random grack/WoS argument was terrible and I agree. No longer have a townread on WoS. all he did was come in and talk about grack only, nothing else. pretty strange imo
(We later find out WoS is survivor, so this is why I added this quote. Looks like WoS knows something is up but doesn't give a shit since he's 3P)
On September 14 2013 14:53 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 14:47 Grackaroni wrote:
@Vayne: you started out this game with an actual case and I got the impression that you would be doing actual anaylsis, as of late all your main scum reads look extremely outdated. Your only reasoning for me being scum is that I was suspicious of Pandain and besides that you latch onto WoS/Oat's posts. I have been doing so much more in the thread you could analyze.
You have even less reasoning for Koshi being scum, all you have said is that he was suspicious of Pandain. It looks to me that you only wrote your case on Blubbers to jump on some early town cred and after people wrote you off as town you got lazy and stopped bothering to analyze the thread. I don't feel the need to repeat myself, if I see anything worthy of deep analysis then ill post it. You asked for scumreads and I gave an overview of what i've seen from day 1. It's not so much outdated as getting badgered to re-iterate what I have already said. If you actually thought this was all shitty then you would have said something before now I presume.
(starts attacking me day 2 when it is town sentiment that im scummy)
On September 14 2013 15:12 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 15:03 Grackaroni wrote:On September 14 2013 14:53 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 14 2013 14:47 Grackaroni wrote:
@Vayne: you started out this game with an actual case and I got the impression that you would be doing actual anaylsis, as of late all your main scum reads look extremely outdated. Your only reasoning for me being scum is that I was suspicious of Pandain and besides that you latch onto WoS/Oat's posts. I have been doing so much more in the thread you could analyze.
You have even less reasoning for Koshi being scum, all you have said is that he was suspicious of Pandain. It looks to me that you only wrote your case on Blubbers to jump on some early town cred and after people wrote you off as town you got lazy and stopped bothering to analyze the thread. I don't feel the need to repeat myself, if I see anything worthy of deep analysis then ill post it. You asked for scumreads and I gave an overview of what i've seen from day 1. It's not so much outdated as getting badgered to re-iterate what I have already said. If you actually thought this was all shitty then you would have said something before now I presume. There's a reason I had asked you the question rather than just looking back at what you already said. I wanted to see if you had anything new to bring to the table after the Blubbdavid lynch. Your reasoning for Koshi being scum is weak. You are telling me there is nobody in this game you are more suspicious of at the moment then Koshi because he was suspicious of Pandain's first post? That's the best scum read you've got at this point in the game? I don't get where the pandain thing is coming from but its more of a meta read, considering he actually hasn't done that much if you read his filter.
(Pandain association)
The whole fakeclaim thing, can't even quote any of that to summarize how dumb/anti-town it was
On September 17 2013 02:08 VayneAuthority wrote:
assuming you are town here then im going with koshi/grack/lurker. 3 man scum team makes sense with 2 survivors, and I don't have a scum read on any other contributors in the game.
(I forgot pandain was even in this game at this point, he is the lurker.)
On September 17 2013 02:11 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So, first of all, what do you think of my read on Koshi? And do you still think Grack is scum based on what has happened since the last time you were here? I think it's wrong and this game reminds me a lot more of him in sicilian than persona. You need to go back and read that. He used vivax as a puppet the whole game and got "fake angry" multiple times that game. it's so similar to this. Except in this game, he's using you as his puppet. I have thought grack was scum for a while now, between what he did day 1 with the subtly asking for people's opinions and stuff before the game was really fleshed out. He wanted to know who he could push as mafia. Then you add in all this fake claiming stuff and it's stupid. doesn't help town at all. As I said earlier that fake fight between him and koshi looked extremely fake so that's the nail in the coffin for me. don't know who's the 3rd if it's not you but I assume kush/umasi/zealos or something
(ignore staged argument since that's wrong now, but fact stands that their argument shit up the thread)
On September 18 2013 02:12 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:09 kushm4sta wrote:
basically i already solved the game and no one is listening to me because they are dumb nah kush I agree with you, i already suspected grack and im much more suspicious of pandain now given that OP was scum. If you look back I added to your case given the fact that pandain had a townread on me then as soon as people suspect me as mafia he does a 180 and says " i am suspicious" in his reads post with no reasoning given.
(abrupt reads change to agree with town sentiment, association tells galore)
On September 18 2013 06:30 VayneAuthority wrote:
like a 0% chance that I die but in case I do, I cannot stress this enough after that flip
don't forget about koshi/grack/kush/pandain vote shenanigans from day 1.
don't need to be a rocket science just take a quick glance through the voting thread.
koshi is on SnB wagon then switches to blubb when that isn't happening. then later in the game blames me constantly for lynching blubb. hypocritical and terrible logic all balled into one big bag of scum. His incessant push on me as he uses rayn to talk for him leaves me pretty much confirmed on this.
Grack is one of the first people on OP, ok cool. Then when he is about to be lynched, he ninja vote switches. Suspicious much? between that and the other minor points ive been concerned about is enough to have me giving him a good chance to flip red.
Kush's play this game has actually been fine so not too concerned here. But if you look he had his vote on a random meaningless place (gk) to start. Then OP picks up steam and he realizes that his vote is actually needed to stop a scum lynch. consequently switches to blubb. This is pretty suspicious but not sure if it's enough to convict him. Recently, he's been making a shit load of sense
Pandain - this one is the strangest. This guy literally went ape shit about OP being lynched despite having a cool head the whole game. Who hard buddies as scum that badly? that's what is throwing me off. I dont know his play though, and he could have just panicked as scum.
SnB - this guy to a much lesser extent, I don't see that random zealos push being scum motivated. Very similar to pandain, too obvious to be scum or just scum? You guys decide if I die.
Think that's pretty much it. I believe the mason claim because you can't fake that unless both scum and what a incredibly dumb and risky play that would be. Shame that we have a mason though, not a particularly good role.
And finally, the most recent argument where grack tries to paint me as scum based on a mod question. LOL!
If anyone doesn't think that grack/pandain are the last scum then too bad, guess you can't be convinced.
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On September 19 2013 00:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 00:40 Grackaroni wrote:On September 19 2013 00:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:27 Grackaroni wrote:On September 19 2013 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 18 2013 23:58 Grackaroni wrote:On September 18 2013 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 18 2013 23:50 Grackaroni wrote:On September 18 2013 23:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 18 2013 23:36 Grackaroni wrote:
[quote]
Because he had valid points and confidently expressed them. The manner in which Oats/WoS/Umasi planted their votes on BH at the time and then disappeared when nobody was pushing hard for his lynch with a well-written case made me think it was more likely that some players in that group were scum just pawning off their vote and that it was not a scum lynch. First of all it was me/Umasi/WoS who voted for OP at thet time. Oats had voted earlier, and gave reasons for his vote, the reasons were good. You also did agree with me earlier on when i talked about OP! What you just said is simply not true. ...as for OP, most of my reasoning is coming from Rayn but I did say before my dislike of OP's posting and added in my own points. Then there is this: On September 14 2013 06:51 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm voting Zealous. Pandain is town and he has good points. What exactly were those good points Pandain brought up? you voting for OP wasn't a suspicious vote because you had already started the case on him earlier in your filter. Oats kind of pushed him earlier but not nearly enough to convince others to vote for him. The big post Pandain made about the votes falling in on OP too easily and the lack of people vocally defending OP. And you bought that at face value given that: 1) You were suspicious of Pandain 2) Pandain was right there defending OP 3) At early on in the game when i voted for OP and gave my reasoning (which was in fact exactly what made people vote for him in the end) there were a lot of people arguing against OP being scum. Makes sense how? 1 and 2) Scum basically never come out like this and start hard defending a teammate this vocally. They think it will make them appear too scummy. 3) I don't remember anyone arguing that they thought Op wasn't scum except Koshi. Okay this is the chain of events in chronological order: You change your vote on OP and give a reasoning for it. Oats makes a case on OP and votes for him. Then me/Umasi/WoS vote for OP. You have a scumread on SnB and Pandain. SnB starts a wagon on Zealos. Pandain joins the Zealos wagon and says "there is no resistance to OP lynch". What do you do after that? You agree with you scumread on a wagon that's been pushed by your other scumread! for what, "because there is no resistance on the dude's lynch i think is scum, besides the other two dudes i think are scum". What do you need, do your town reads need to oppose a scumlynch for you to think the lynch is in fact on scum? Your voting behavior on D1 makes absolutely zero sense. I even indicated earlier that Zealos was scummy and that I was going to consider switching on to him. Pandain's post and the easy flow of unexpected vote were enough to make me uncomfortable with the lynch and prompted me to switch. What doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that you have three scumreads. OP, Pandain, SnB. You switch from your scumread to another person who is pushed by both of your other scumreads, while the wagon you were on has zero scumreads of yours.. The reasoning is "noone is agruing against OP lynch". :p ugh, It's so obvious that I wasn't suspicious of Pandain anymore because of the posts he was making when I switched on to Zealos. I'm pretty sure I even directly wrote that guy is town. i think even you agreed that Pandain was likely town from those posts pushing people off of the BH wagon. lol no, i thought he was town because of how he argued with me on SnB. I think he looks terribad from his voteswitch and his reads change on N1. You say you were not suspicious of Pandain any more. I asked your reasoning. You pointed out the post where he pushed out people from voting for OP. I dunno how you can drop your scumread on him based on him defending BH. Your scumread is defending your scumread, he gets a town read from you based on that. What gives?
Yes Pandain's posts during the time of the lynch changed my read on him.
On September 14 2013 06:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah Pandain is either town or really good scum. I don't trust his read on kush / OP however.
SnB how am i OMGUSing?
You even posted something in response to me saying that which was agreeing with me. This implies that you as well thought Pandain was more likely town from those posts...
You are like blatantly leaving out the fact that I was suspicious of Zealos, it's ridiculous.
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On September 19 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Pandain is pushing town. Rayn and others are pushing town.
Whats going on Rayn? Why not kill VA?
Because there is a bigger chance of Grackaroni being scum.
Do you usually give town reads to people because they are your scumread and defend your scumread?
Then you go on and vote with them on a case that's pushed by another scumread of yours?
And your reasoning for all that is "nobody was defending the original wagon"....
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all of what I just posted, relies on grack being scum so that is why we lynch him first.
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On September 19 2013 00:57 VayneAuthority wrote:
all of what I just posted, relies on grack being scum so that is why we lynch him first.
that has got to be the worst case I have ever seen and it is seriously making me doubt my read on you. I'm the most scummy player in the thread because: "sheep WoS reasoning" "he was suspicious of Panda's post". What is up with Vayne this game, does he always play like this?
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On September 19 2013 00:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Pandain is pushing town. Rayn and others are pushing town.
Whats going on Rayn? Why not kill VA? Because there is a bigger chance of Grackaroni being scum. Do you usually give town reads to people because they are your scumread and defend your scumread? Then you go on and vote with them on a case that's pushed by another scumread of yours? And your reasoning for all that is "nobody was defending the original wagon"....
town do do that.
Also scum fakeclaims vet for what reason exactly?
To draw out the real vet?
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On September 14 2013 01:38 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 01:37 Papa_Smurf wrote:
I dont see why you are pushing a 4th wagon at this point in the day oats What 4th wagon? Also, I dont see anything but me shouting VOTE OP. Why arent you voting for OP? Second read is Blubb.
debears scum.
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On September 19 2013 01:03 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 00:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Pandain is pushing town. Rayn and others are pushing town.
Whats going on Rayn? Why not kill VA? Because there is a bigger chance of Grackaroni being scum. Do you usually give town reads to people because they are your scumread and defend your scumread? Then you go on and vote with them on a case that's pushed by another scumread of yours? And your reasoning for all that is "nobody was defending the original wagon".... town do do that. Also scum fakeclaims vet for what reason exactly? To draw out the real vet?
no, town don't do that.
yes, or to draw out SK. Lynching SK gives them town credit.
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Hows claiming vet draw out the SK?
If it did somehow do that, please enlighten me so that we can lynch him.
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Seriously, look at the last moments on D1:
From this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427569¤tpage=58
Pandain: "lynch kush, lynch kush, rayn why wouldn't you vote for your townread! OP is town! SnB lynch kush. OH shit, kush is not happening, lynch Zealos, lynch Zealos, one more vote to Zealos! ##vote: blubbers"
Grackaroni: "Lynch OP, i still think he is scum. Oh shit, Pandain is town! He's making good posts and SnB is pushing Zealos (lol, at this point Pandain was advocating kush lynch)! SnB is my scumread, but WTF! Let's lynch Zealos! ##vote: zealos"
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If they were both scum they'd buddy up on zealos or blubb and mr OP wouldn't have to show himself by voting.
I just about flamed you but then I didn't wanna get modkilled.
Its fairly clear that at least 1 scum was AFK @deadline
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On September 19 2013 01:12 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hows claiming vet draw out the SK?
If it did somehow do that, please enlighten me so that we can lynch him.
I talked about this already.
Scum hit does not go through on N1. They know who they hit. Scum fakeclaims vet. Koshi's response was obviously a blue (vet) claim.
1) Scum hit Koshi - Koshi is vet, no need to roleblock him on N2, just kill him dead.
2) Scum hit other then Koshi - Koshi is still a vet, roleblock and kill him on N2. The person scum hit is either SK or was docced (50%).
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On September 19 2013 01:16 Sn0_Man wrote:
If they were both scum they'd buddy up on zealos or blubb and mr OP wouldn't have to show himself by voting.
I just about flamed you but then I didn't wanna get modkilled.
Its fairly clear that at least 1 scum was AFK @deadline
Maybe BH was afk as they did pile up on Zealos. Pandain switched at the last second.
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EPT
