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Basterd Mini Mafia
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Vivax
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Do we get grokbucks for writing in german? | ||
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w00t ![[image loading]](http://media.tumblr.com/bfc8f54e0f317a0e20c08f3504f3f444/tumblr_inline_mk9rufzOea1qz4rgp.gif) | ||
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What we know is that marv must come back guilty in any case. We don't know if he's town or not. Hence, why so trustful, Rayn? In my own experience as scum I hardly attack such claims cause they seem so strong if a townie makes them. Bist du Nazi-Abschaum, Junge? | ||
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Lazermonkey's vote on WoS gives me a townie feeling. Any differing opinions? Do you agree?Yes? Why? | ||
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On June 30 2013 07:12 Lazermonkey wrote: Marv, which game were you fake claiming miller? I think it was Just another mini normal mafia or Normal mini mafia II, he got replaced by yamato. Is this a relevant question in your opinion? | ||
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Stutters's post that looks bad could be the "know something we don't?" thing. How is scum supposed to know anything about the amount of millers in the game? They can't roll them lol. I don't see why WoS should be scum for writing in French though. | ||
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Ecco un voto per esprimere la mia discordanza e il mio sospetto ##Vote stutters | ||
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On June 30 2013 07:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also if you are town, why would you not google translate WoS' posts? Laziness, also quite confident in understanding some french without a translation. Hence, didn't realize he wrote that. I recall another guy writing something similar though. A guy I never played with. Why don't you call him out? | ||
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Whassup marv. That seems unusual. | ||
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We have 2 guys saying their activity will be shit on D1 (marv and the new guy) Then we have WoS say: I'm not really going to be around until late tonight, so no (as reply to "Hey you got anything to say?") So yeah, kinda asshole answer. But also kinda careless. I'd treat it as null, and it's not really comparable to the announcement that the whole of D1 will be of low activity. I also realized I partially parroted Rayn's reasons for stutter's posts looking bad. Apologies I'm a little drunk coz of my weekend feast and wrote pretty spontaneously. Going to bed now tho. See you sober. | ||
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On June 30 2013 08:02 Lazermonkey wrote: I can't seem to find the game where Marv fake claims miller, it makes me sad. Am I modconfirmed retard now? Marv pls http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394344 It was IV not II -.- | ||
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On June 30 2013 08:18 Lazermonkey wrote: I guess that means Marv does have the balls required to pull off such move as scum. From that game: On January 26 2013 09:30 marvellosity wrote: Vivax, my balls are truly enormous. To explain what I misread, I misread the "not" self-aware millers and I thought he was asking self-aware millers to claim after I'd claimed. | ||
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Vivax, why a sudden change of mind, that is really not a change of mind? What exactly is your stance on stutters/wos? There is no change of mind. I just noticed afterwards that one of the reasons I mentioned for stutters being scummy was a reason you already had mentioned earlier. | ||
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Alright, first of all, I'm still at page 9 while writing this. But I thought about all of this miller thing. First : It's good that we have that claim. Parity cop can simply check marv and prime his check for the following nights. Second: WHY did marv not claim miller along with a name? That is actually pretty scummy. Millers have names in this game, and two possibly different ones. For a scum fakeclaiming it makes sense to withhold your name cause you don't know if there's another miller. If you fakeclaim with name, you are at risk of getting counterclaimed for having the same name. And overall: Why doesn't marv post his full miller PM at once? He should still do that and if he can't we lynch him. If he does we have to consider that it can come from the host. But if iGrok doesn't give one to him he can't and we lynch him. Ezpz. | ||
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On June 30 2013 19:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah everyone has posted, marv can post the role PM. Oats you're being dumb. I do not buddy strong town players as scum. And why should he not post it immediately and only after everyone has posted? That he didn't post it immediately is scummy in itself. | ||
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On June 30 2013 19:21 Oatsmaster wrote: well marv hasnt posted since the start of the game. What do you think of Rayn? His efforts and perseverance in contributing looks townie. But his trust into marv's claim is suspicious, even when he is presented with evidence of marv fakeclaiming miller in another game. He tries to rationalize his trust in this post: On June 30 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is how i see it: marv claimed before iGrok announced the cop is in fact a parity cop. In case the cop was normal and as there is no GF, it's fair that there is one miller. Two millers make the game insanely hard for a cop, and with two miller claims town might run in circles finding which of the millers is "mafia".As for parity cop, having two millers ease up the game much. If the parity cop is stupid enough to not check marv on N1, they still can check the other miller claim on N2 (as if marv is town he will die on N1) and use that to confirm his earlier and future checks. If there is no cop there is no point in having millers. One might be okay in the sense that it fucks with the town, but not too much. Two millers and no cop is basically impossible. marv would not claim miller in either scenario because there is no need to. So that's why i think marv is town and there is exactly 1 miller. I agree that Lazer is probably town. His opening post was careless and i don't think he would have done that as scum. His vote on WoS is good as WoS is probably scum. :D What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad. Now, it looks like a shitty explanation. Rayn writes lengthy stuff about marv claiming before parity cop is revealed, but it doesn't tell anything about marv, except that he was expecting normal cops. Since this is Rayn rationalizing his townread, and mentioning this stuff about miller and cop has no effect on that townread and should rather weaken it, cause Rayn himself mentions that millers are helpful with parity cops and marv would rather not fakeclaim with parity cops present, this explanation looks forced and not very genuine. Like, the bolded part is literally the whole explanation Rayn offers for marv not being scum. "Because there is no need to". In what scenarios? Scenarios with parity cop and scenario with no cop. Well, he said himself marv claimed before parity cop announcement, and marv can't know if there's a cop. Upon analyzing this post I have this Deutsch feeling about rayn. ##Unvote ##Vote Rayn | ||
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That's daring setup speculation, and this setup is everything but standard. Overall I feel Rayn is giving marv too easy credit for that claim and then rationalizing it uber hard afterwards when I gun him for it. | ||
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On June 30 2013 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself: Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so? If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv. Lazer has been asking for marv's scumgame with fakeclaim all the time. I'd expect you to have looked up the link I posted, but given your suspicious hard-on for defending marv it doesn't surprise me you didn't do that. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394344¤tpage=12#222 17 minutes into the game, is that early enough? | ||
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On June 30 2013 20:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why doesn't either of you answer the question what would he gain by claiming miller? The thing you are trying to give him: Confirmed town status. At the very least it should have raised some doubt in you when it became obvious that marv could have posted name + role PM. Instead you wrote this: On June 30 2013 19:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah everyone has posted, marv can post the role PM. Oats you're being dumb. I do not buddy strong town players as scum. So please answer me this: And why should he not post it immediately and only after everyone has posted? | ||
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On June 30 2013 20:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Vivax i already answered that. Oats i have never said so, i said i play quite similarly as town or mafia. Why does me giving a townread to marv make me scum? Is it impossible for me to have this thought process i have already explained as town, and if so, why? No you didn't answer it bro. You said "Now that everyone has posted he can post his role PM". I don't see your reasoning behind this. How are other posts in any way relevant to marv being able to post his PM? | ||
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On June 30 2013 20:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i did answer it. Apologies, mistook that for another defense of marv's claim (Interpreted it as: Marv would have had a 50 % chance of getting counterclaimed and dying). That doesn't change the fact that marv did the same thing as scum in another game, and as Oats pointed out, in all of this you keep assuming that marv is town. He did the same 17 minutes into the game in the other game. | ||
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On June 30 2013 21:29 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok 2 things here. 1. Rayn is scum for instantly taking marv as modconfirmed town. 2. Marv is null for doing this as scum before. If Rayn is scum marv is likely town imo. This exudates so much confidence into marv being town that I don't see it coming from scum about scum. if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv | ||
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On June 30 2013 21:48 Oatsmaster wrote: well yeah Im just saying that Rayn isnt scum for not knowing about previous game where marv fakeclaimed miller and replaced out. Rayn is scummy for his unnatural confidence into marv being town. Followed by him not adapting his opinion to the new information posted about marv and using whatever he can to justify his unjustified townread. What we have in Rayn is probably a scum seeing a townie claim and immediately taking sides for the townie. From a scum point of view, claiming townies seem to be in a strong position, especially when they know that their team will not counterclaim the townie. They will usually try to pick the right side rather than fighting the claim, scum loves to be on the right side. They feel it's going to earn them trust if they simply take the claim at face value and move on to other stuff, defending the townie against other people's doubts, expecting to look like they were right. A lot of Rayn's reasoning for marv being town stems from the fact that he assumes that there can't be two millers. That is fallacious, and a scumslip, Lazermonkey fell for the same mistake, as I will show you (also notice that Lazermonkey pointed out some of Rayn's mistakes but doesn't pursue him as scumread). 1. Rayn quickly thought post-claim that two millers weren't possible. On June 30 2013 06:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Cool. If nobody counterclaims the next step is that the third party (if here) is going to protect you. On June 30 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv, now that i can be sure that you are town and i do actually have to find scum instead of bullshitting around, let's work together and find all the mafia on D1. Deal? On June 30 2013 06:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: I bet that was not 5 minutes into the game when one person has posted before you. That is really an unnecessary risk that i do not think you would take as scum in case the real miller is present. (stutters says there can be two millers) On June 30 2013 06:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no way there are 2 millers in the game so cut talking about that as a possibility already. What's scummy about this:
Implication: → Rayn did not really expect a counterclaim, as seen in point 2, 3 and 4. Only a fraction of players posted at the time so it was not rational to dismiss a counterclaim that quickly. He explains his reasoning here: On June 30 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is how i see it: marv claimed before iGrok announced the cop is in fact a parity cop. In case the cop was normal and as there is no GF, it's fair that there is one miller. Two millers make the game insanely hard for a cop, and with two miller claims town might run in circles finding which of the millers is "mafia". As for parity cop, having two millers ease up the game much. If the parity cop is stupid enough to not check marv on N1, they still can check the other miller claim on N2 (as if marv is town he will die on N1) and use that to confirm his earlier and future checks. If there is no cop there is no point in having millers. One might be okay in the sense that it fucks with the town, but not too much. Two millers and no cop is basically impossible. marv would not claim miller in either scenario because there is no need to. So that's why i think marv is town and there is exactly 1 miller. I agree that Lazer is probably town. His opening post was careless and i don't think he would have done that as scum. His vote on WoS is good as WoS is probably scum. :D What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad. Let's dissect this: 1. Rayn says only one miller is possible with standard cop (don't even know why he mentioned this as it's unrelated) 2. Rayn says two millers make the game too easy for parity cop coz he can prime his check on one N2 if the other dies N1 (lolz) 3. Rayn says only one miller is possible with no cop. Also no miller is possible. And he says: THAT'S WHY MARV IS TOWN (cause two millers are unlikely) This question arises: It sticks out that in all of this, Rayn never considers that town could have no miller. Why does Rayn not consider that town has no miller? Cause he first gave marv full credit (too quickly, knowing that the claim must be true) and now has to justify it. Cause he knew that marv's claim was true, and hence had trouble imagining things from a perspective where town could have no miller. Futhermore: On June 30 2013 09:41 Lazermonkey wrote: EBWOP: To expand on that, what is it that makes you think that marv is to bright to fake claim miller in this game despite having done so in another game. The claim was risky in that game, just as the hypothetical fake claim would be in this game. Still you say there cannot be a possibilty that Marv is scum in this game. On June 30 2013 09:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact that there is a rolename for each possible miller. If you fakeclaim, you take a 50% chance of 1-1 trade as mafia, which is not good 5min into D1. There is lot to talk about. Stutters and WoS are scummy. Do you agree? We talk about marv more when he posts more. Rayn was well aware of the fact that millers have names. And yet he said that marv would not have claimed miller cause a guy with the same name would have gotten one of them lynched. BUT MARV NEVER CLAIMED HIS NAME, and Rayn never asked him for it. This shows that Rayn had the intention to defend marv, not that he was figuring out his alignment genuinely. For us, it means that today we should lynch Rayn imo. I also mentioned that Lazer made the same mistake in not assuming the genuine perspective, here: On June 30 2013 07:25 Lazermonkey wrote: Regarding the the possibilties of there being two millers in the setup. First off, I'm going to make the assumption that there are only three scum in this game. Secondly, looking at the roles in possible for scum you can see that the only one power role in our beloved friend Adolf "the roleblocker." Hitler. Now, assuming there is only 1 Hitler (which I don't think is a very bold assumption) the most powerfull scum team is in theory goon x2 + GF, a relativly weak team. Having two millers vs this team, even without additional blue roles, honestly seems kinda OP as you would either get into a postion with 2 modconfirmed townies D1 or a group of 3 people where you know for sure that one is scum. So, once again assuming (-.-)that the game is fairly balanced I don't think there are two millers. And the conclusion you should draw from this is that Marvs claim probably means he is town. Knowing that marv is town, he didn't assume that there could be no miller. | ||
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On June 30 2013 23:04 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah Lazer took in the fakeclaim not as scum fake claiming, just saying that with 1 miller means marv is confirmed town and 2 millers means that marv isnt confirmed town. kk. ? Lazer says marv is probably town cause there can only be 1 miller. And that while knowing that he fakeclaimed miller in another game. | ||
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On June 30 2013 22:46 Stutters695 wrote: With that said though his reaction and thought process makes him the towniest motherfucker here. Especially after themed, I really doubt he'd be scum. Can you point out what reaction and thought process you thought made him such a townie motherfucker? | ||
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rofl what's this? An accusation? Now if i was mafia how would i know how many millers there are in the game? Also could you answer the quesions about Lazer/WoS? Actually no, Stutters' last post makes no sense from town point of view. ##Vote: Stutters What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad. On June 30 2013 07:22 Stutters695 wrote: Why are they bad? So basically, what makes Rayn so townie is that he asks a question you don't answer, votes for you, and asks me to look at you. Then, when so many agree on you looking bad, he switches to WoS, asking us to find the reason, I still don't see him mentioning that reason by himself in his filter. So basically, you, his first scumread, never answered his question (which you could do now btw). He proceeds to drop a vote on WoS, then is busy defending himself, but nevertheless he doesn't try to find reasons for you or WoS to be decent lynches. So yeah, I kinda have trouble seeing how his reaction is so townie in your opinion. Happy birthday by the way. | ||
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On July 01 2013 01:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'm also eager to hear why/how Vivax did a sudden 180.. no, more like a 540 on about everything last night. And why is noone interested in that? Go into detail about those please. My fingers are itching. | ||
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"Marv totes town" "There can't be two millers" "Marv wouldn't claim neither with cop or with no cop coz only one miller" "Since there can only be one miller marv must be town" "Marv doesn't fakeclaim 5 minutes into D1" (only 17 minutes in another game) But never like "Oh look marv fakeclaimed early in another game maybe he could be scum in this one" "Oh I don't think there can't be two millers, but maybe there is none either" "Well marv didn't say his name cause the counterclaimer would have to say his name first and if it was the same as marv's we would lynch the counterclaimer" (Completely dismissing the fact that if marv's claim is fake he can simply claim the other available name and still be safe) | ||
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That. Why the sudden change of mind from going me = town -> me = scum with no new posts from me, and before that you seemed to understand me. You just "reviewed" the situation. Why did you not look at it closely in the first place? Coz I was drunk and tired lol. I reread the thread and saw things in a new light while I was analyzing your post after Oats asked me to take a look at you. Are people scum for changing their mind? Even when they go in depth about their reasons? Is anyone who misses something at first and then changes his view -on his own- scum? Looks pretty much like you're just grasping at straws. | ||
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On July 01 2013 01:41 Vivax wrote: I just remembered Carnival Cruise, this is how Rayn reacts to such claims as town: | ||
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Your actions with this miller thing will not be undone by talking more about it. Who do we lynch today? Stutters came, saw and went away. Wasn't he your scumread earlier? What about WoS, what's this thing you saw that made him scummy? | ||
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On July 01 2013 04:31 Lazermonkey wrote: With above facts, it would be very easy to draw the conclusion that marv is not scum beuse if he were, there is a high chance he could get counter claimed. When I then looked at the other game, I found out that marv did in fact claim miller as scum in a game where 2 millers were almost impossible but 1 was quite likely, just like this game. Thats why I changed my mind. But even ignoring that, its BS to say that someone is scum just because they are convinced that someone is town. Counter claim chance in the other game was 60 or 40 %, don't remember which one, I think that's fairly high and also applies to this game. What matters though is that you said marv would be likely town cause two millers are unlikely, dismissing the option that there could be no miller, like Rayn did. It's not bullshit to assume someone is scum cause they are convinced someone is town. If someone gives a town read without proper reasons then it's indicative that they knew their alignment beforehand. You and Rayn clearly didn't look at this matter from the perspective of someone who sees a miller claim and thinks "Oh ok he did it in some other game, I'll judge him by his play then". You say "Oh he claimed he must be town then" (You not as much as Rayn, but you said to Rayn that you agree on marv being probably town and then decided for it once you concluded that two millers are impossible). And when you got gunned for reasons you constructed pretty strange explanations for your reads. In case that anyone didn't read my case yet, I urge you to go through it and at least comment on it: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2013 21:48 Oatsmaster wrote: well yeah Im just saying that Rayn isnt scum for not knowing about previous game where marv fakeclaimed miller and replaced out. Rayn is scummy for his unnatural confidence into marv being town. Followed by him not adapting his opinion to the new information posted about marv and using whatever he can to justify his unjustified townread. What we have in Rayn is probably a scum seeing a townie claim and immediately taking sides for the townie. From a scum point of view, claiming townies seem to be in a strong position, especially when they know that their team will not counterclaim the townie. They will usually try to pick the right side rather than fighting the claim, scum loves to be on the right side. They feel it's going to earn them trust if they simply take the claim at face value and move on to other stuff, defending the townie against other people's doubts, expecting to look like they were right. A lot of Rayn's reasoning for marv being town stems from the fact that he assumes that there can't be two millers. That is fallacious, and a scumslip, Lazermonkey fell for the same mistake, as I will show you (also notice that Lazermonkey pointed out some of Rayn's mistakes but doesn't pursue him as scumread). 1. Rayn quickly thought post-claim that two millers weren't possible. On June 30 2013 06:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Cool. If nobody counterclaims the next step is that the third party (if here) is going to protect you. On June 30 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv, now that i can be sure that you are town and i do actually have to find scum instead of bullshitting around, let's work together and find all the mafia on D1. Deal? On June 30 2013 06:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: I bet that was not 5 minutes into the game when one person has posted before you. That is really an unnecessary risk that i do not think you would take as scum in case the real miller is present. (stutters says there can be two millers) On June 30 2013 06:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no way there are 2 millers in the game so cut talking about that as a possibility already. What's scummy about this:
Implication: → Rayn did not really expect a counterclaim, as seen in point 2, 3 and 4. Only a fraction of players posted at the time so it was not rational to dismiss a counterclaim that quickly. He explains his reasoning here: On June 30 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is how i see it: marv claimed before iGrok announced the cop is in fact a parity cop. In case the cop was normal and as there is no GF, it's fair that there is one miller. Two millers make the game insanely hard for a cop, and with two miller claims town might run in circles finding which of the millers is "mafia". As for parity cop, having two millers ease up the game much. If the parity cop is stupid enough to not check marv on N1, they still can check the other miller claim on N2 (as if marv is town he will die on N1) and use that to confirm his earlier and future checks. If there is no cop there is no point in having millers. One might be okay in the sense that it fucks with the town, but not too much. Two millers and no cop is basically impossible. marv would not claim miller in either scenario because there is no need to. So that's why i think marv is town and there is exactly 1 miller. I agree that Lazer is probably town. His opening post was careless and i don't think he would have done that as scum. His vote on WoS is good as WoS is probably scum. :D What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad. Let's dissect this: 1. Rayn says only one miller is possible with standard cop (don't even know why he mentioned this as it's unrelated) 2. Rayn says two millers make the game too easy for parity cop coz he can prime his check on one N2 if the other dies N1 (lolz) 3. Rayn says only one miller is possible with no cop. Also no miller is possible. And he says: THAT'S WHY MARV IS TOWN (cause two millers are unlikely) This question arises: It sticks out that in all of this, Rayn never considers that town could have no miller. Why does Rayn not consider that town has no miller? Cause he first gave marv full credit (too quickly, knowing that the claim must be true) and now has to justify it. Cause he knew that marv's claim was true, and hence had trouble imagining things from a perspective where town could have no miller. Futhermore: On June 30 2013 09:41 Lazermonkey wrote: EBWOP: To expand on that, what is it that makes you think that marv is to bright to fake claim miller in this game despite having done so in another game. The claim was risky in that game, just as the hypothetical fake claim would be in this game. Still you say there cannot be a possibilty that Marv is scum in this game. On June 30 2013 09:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact that there is a rolename for each possible miller. If you fakeclaim, you take a 50% chance of 1-1 trade as mafia, which is not good 5min into D1. There is lot to talk about. Stutters and WoS are scummy. Do you agree? We talk about marv more when he posts more. Rayn was well aware of the fact that millers have names. And yet he said that marv would not have claimed miller cause a guy with the same name would have gotten one of them lynched. BUT MARV NEVER CLAIMED HIS NAME, and Rayn never asked him for it. This shows that Rayn had the intention to defend marv, not that he was figuring out his alignment genuinely. For us, it means that today we should lynch Rayn imo. I also mentioned that Lazer made the same mistake in not assuming the genuine perspective, here: On June 30 2013 07:25 Lazermonkey wrote: Regarding the the possibilties of there being two millers in the setup. First off, I'm going to make the assumption that there are only three scum in this game. Secondly, looking at the roles in possible for scum you can see that the only one power role in our beloved friend Adolf "the roleblocker." Hitler. Now, assuming there is only 1 Hitler (which I don't think is a very bold assumption) the most powerfull scum team is in theory goon x2 + GF, a relativly weak team. Having two millers vs this team, even without additional blue roles, honestly seems kinda OP as you would either get into a postion with 2 modconfirmed townies D1 or a group of 3 people where you know for sure that one is scum. So, once again assuming (-.-)that the game is fairly balanced I don't think there are two millers. And the conclusion you should draw from this is that Marvs claim probably means he is town. Knowing that marv is town, he didn't assume that there could be no miller. | ||
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Rayn gave Lazer a townread as reaction to me doing the same. Why did you call Rayn out but not me? | ||
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banning these reasons from your cases will dramatically improve your scumhunting, it will actually put you in need to explain how people's actions make them scum in detail. You don't do that just by putting their play into a category labeled "scummy" | ||
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On July 01 2013 06:41 Stutters695 wrote: The part about no role name being claimed is null imo. I could easily argue the merits of town withholding that info until a second Miller claims. The damming part is how sure he was Marv was town, but that can easily be explained away by his thinking 5 minutes in is too early for scum to claim. I'm having a hard time justifying it when the rest of his play has been pretty town. Like your case had me pretty convinced earlier but the more I see from him the less I feel comfortable with it. Yeah, 12 minutes of difference between the two games is a pretty big reason. Rayn having completely different opinions on miller claims in two different games with similar setups is totally not scummy. | ||
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On July 01 2013 06:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why can't any of you understand that as the millers have role-names, it's too fucking risky to claim miller as mafia??!?!?!?!? If there was another miller claim, who is to say marv gets to say his role name last? Me? Certainly not. If someone had cc'd him i would totally have him claim his role name first, because marv has balls to do something like this. Not counting the fact that it's incredibly stupid, and no other miller claims proves even more that i am right in what i have said. On June 30 2013 19:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: No it's not. Fakeclaiming miller 5min into the game is dumb and unnecessary as scum and if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first. Other than that, I'm very interested in how your stutters read developed. You went from calling him scum early to stop talking about him (it was ME who asked him about the question YOU found scummy) and then casually saying you think his posting looked genuine, later. Could you portray your thought process for your change of read on stutters, in detail? | ||
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No Vivax, i asked about the question from Stutters. Why are you pushing fake evidence? I fucking asked about it right after he posted. Yeah you asked it in the start, after calling him out. You didn't give a shit about stutters after you posted your case and he came back to the thread. What my point here is, is that you didn't pursue him when you had the chance to. When your question went unanswered after stutters came back, it was me pointing it out, although I don't recall the timing of your comeback, nor can I know it. I don't see interactions from you with stutters. But when Oats asks you for your read on him while both of us gunned you, you said this: I don't know, he has been asked a lot of questions which he "will answer when he has more time" but instead every time he posts he posts something else. 1:45 later you say this: Stutters' posting style and explanations feel genuine and i'm slightly leaning town on him. | ||
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On July 01 2013 07:14 Lazermonkey wrote: I don't get this. So your issue is that I assumed that there had to be a miller?I didn't. If I had, why would I even have written that shit? If I knew there was 1 miller and 1 miller only then scum cannot fake claim. Or, they can but its at best a 1-1 trade. The reason I wrote that was because I wanted to showcase why the hypothetical, less risky marv, would not claim miller when he was scum because if there was a real miller in the game, he would look really really bad. Again... On June 30 2013 07:25 Lazermonkey wrote: Regarding the the possibilties of there being two millers in the setup. First off, I'm going to make the assumption that there are only three scum in this game. Secondly, looking at the roles in possible for scum you can see that the only one power role in our beloved friend Adolf "the roleblocker." Hitler. Now, assuming there is only 1 Hitler (which I don't think is a very bold assumption) the most powerfull scum team is in theory goon x2 + GF, a relativly weak team. Having two millers vs this team, even without additional blue roles, honestly seems kinda OP as you would either get into a postion with 2 modconfirmed townies D1 or a group of 3 people where you know for sure that one is scum. So, once again assuming (-.-)that the game is fairly balanced I don't think there are two millers. And the conclusion you should draw from this is that Marvs claim probably means he is town. I don't know, am I reading something wrong here? I see you claiming that marv is probably town cause there can't be two millers. But you just stated that you didn't assume that there had to be a miller. On the contrary, your post in question is footed on the idea that there is a miller and that it's marv, and that he's town cause there can't be two millers. | ||
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On July 01 2013 07:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah, i had not reread what Stutters had said after that, and when i started catching up i was posting when i read people's filters. That's also when i realized what Oats posted about him, this post: The rest i said about Stutters is why he is only slightly leaning on town and not more. Funny. What oats posted was the exact opposite of what you claimed. You said: rofl what's this? An accusation? Now if i was mafia how would i know how many millers there are in the game? and this: So you are saying as scum stutters wants to throw suspicion on Rayn for something that scum dont know. I dont think this is really all the believable swayed your opinion? Cause Oats just said the exact opposite of what you said?Without any further clarification? Then, you got ultimately persuaded by these posts between your posts in question? You went from scum to I don't know to town, with these posts between the "I don't know" and the "town": On July 01 2013 02:46 Stutters695 wrote: This is why I thought he was town. The miller stuff is eh (a lot more damming now with Vivax's post however). Like it isn't an unreasonable assumption and his reaction to my "scummiest post in the thread" was almost exactly how I'd react. I'd expect scum to be much more concerned with justifying their stance immediately rather than just laugh it off and not elaborate until pressure is on them. I reacted almost identically to an accusation from vivax in roulette that I felt was ridiculous. In addition to that, he's one of the most active players. I can pull specifics if you want but that's the rundown. On July 01 2013 03:47 Stutters695 wrote: You're misunderstanding. I'm leaning scum on him now, that was explaining why I thought he was town when I woke up this morning and did a quick skim. Although I do think accepting a miller claim isn't unreasonable. It essentially is just having someone say "hey, don't check me because you'll waste your power (pre-parity announcement) and cause a mislynch." It doesn't in any way confirm Marv, but ensures he is judged on the basis of his actual play. That he's so sure Marv is town is worrisome but I can see where he is coming from to a certain extent. I also don't like how many people are slipping by saying absolutely nothing. Even if we lynch him we should hear his reads and force these hardcore lurkers to post something. Explain what you found so townie about these posts please. | ||
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At least you checked if it was possible that marv would fakeclaim, and you put out your reasoning for assuming he's town. That's why we lynch Rayn today and not you. Don't you think it's a sweet idea? | ||
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No, I'm taking that back. You are also a good lynch. The reasoning you mention now is not a reasoning you mentioned at the time, where you argued from the point of view that there had to be one miller, and that the miller was marv. You could easily be lying now. But it's a matter of belief to judge you for that, now that you offered an explanation that is not possible to be confirmed based on your earlier post. I still think you fell for the same mistake Rayn fell for. tl; dr: Now you say you thought "extra" stuff at the time, but at the time you didn't mention that. Hence I don't know if it's true. Now you say that you thought marv was town cause he would not have balls to do that as scum, but in the post you claim that he's town cause there can only be one miller. BUT, marv himself said that he fakeclaimed miller as scum in another game (which you wanted to look up, as if marv would lie about that lol, for what?Does he need to lie to discredit his claim?) With all of this you mention now, your reasoning boils down to the fact that regardless of the amount of millers, marv would be town cause not ballsy enough to do that. BUT it's bullshit, cause he said himself he was, and your post used an entirely different reasoning, different from this one: 3. Assume Marv is not playing risky as scum (which I was wrong about, which is why I got abit unsure of my read on marv.) 7. Marv knows that if there are one miller in the game and he claims, he is fucked. | ||
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On July 01 2013 08:22 JarJarDrinks wrote: Good point. I just didnt notice anything else scummy from you nor was I really looking. I only noticed it from rayn after I went back into his filter. Who do you think could be scum outside of s0lstice? As you may have noticed I'm for Rayn and Lazer scum atm. Their explanations become increasingly dangly, hence I'd like you to take a look at the matter and comment on it. If you don't think they're worthy of the noose, please give me a rundown on why I should be voting s0lstice instead of them. | ||
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No role Pm has been posted yet, should be fine. | ||
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The posts you mention I also noticed earlier, especially the part with the "I see where he's coming from". Not only is he giving out a quite half-assed, unclear defense, but matter of fact is that him arguing for marv being town wasn't really related to my reasons for thinking that Rayn is scum, cause that was for being too sure too quickly about marv and with reasons that seem fake in my opinion. It makes me curious to know why he thinks that marv is town though. So far the only reason that have been used were "He doesn't have the balls to do it as scum early", when I clearly posted evidence that he does. Marv should have been obviously a null for his actions, but stutters then found him townie as well as another argument for defending Rayn. Anyhow, this is how Rayn is pushing his scumread, "flip-flopping" and "buddying" are his arguments without further clarification: On July 01 2013 04:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: JarJar makes also a good lynch for what he has said so far. On July 01 2013 05:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats why don't you look at JarJar if i flip town? The guy is flip-flopping around and buddying you about his read on me and has pretty much.. no actually.. none other thoughts. Appeals to emotion, thinks about his flip: On July 01 2013 04:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats if you by some miracle get me lynched i will laugh at you so hard post game when marv dies N1 and you just lost, not only your whole D1 in analysis and two townies that are amongst the strongest players here. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ On July 01 2013 10:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'm kinda done here. ##Unvote: ##Vote: JarJarDrinks Lynch me if you want to, when i flip lynch JarJar and when he flips red lynch Vivax. Look closely into WoS and Fuba. I may post something tomorrow if my schedule is not too tight. I was planning on doing some scumhunting today but Oats/Vivax effectively shut me down, and i don't know how much i can be online tomorrow. Sad thing is that Oats is town. Stutters is probably town aswell. I think marv is still town. I think Lazer is probably town, as i think Vivax is scum. It could be the other way around though. I think solstice is town. I have no idea about Vayne, but PoE says town. Oh and gumshoe is definitely town. Goes all badass like "lynch me if you want to", but whines that he has to defend himself and can't scumhunt. He clearly doesn't think that voting his scumread for those semi-reasons can be considered scumhunting. At last, he gives out all those townreads, effectively leaving me: Me, fuba, WoS, JJD for possible scum. But yeah, apparently poor Rayne has to defend himself and doesn't think that arguing for someone being more likely scum is a form of defense as well. Hence I'll be expecting him to deliver on this front. | ||
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On July 01 2013 12:13 JarJarDrinks wrote: Glad u asked  .pretty sure gumshoe is scum All gumshoe has done is look for miniscule things that he can label piggybacker/flip-flopper/etc... And he's calling people out a bunch because of activity issues just because they leave the thread for a bit. Look @ all of these posts:I mean, look @ this last post. How are those the only options? How about "He's doing something unrelated to the game on a Sunday Afternoon"? He's trying to cast suspicion based on stuff that are outside the realm of the game. Like what does he mean by someone gave me a heads up once the heat built up? Is he implying that I wasn't following the game thread but I was following the scum thread and someone there told me I need to go post? Also look @ that 2nd post where he says "the pressure put on Stutters wasn't necessarily meant to secure a vote on him, it was there to push Stutters to react and force sides.". But that wasn't really what he said when he was supecting stutters earlier It only became about pressuring stutters after the fact because gumshoe was pushing his "Stutters left the thread because he was scum and couldn't handle the pressure" agenda. And lastly, since I know I'm town (I know that no one else can know this but I'm giving my own reasons) and there are 3 people voting me. Odds are that 1 of em is scum since I'd imagine they'd want to spread their vote around. vote: gumshoe On July 01 2013 08:35 Vivax wrote: Who do you think could be scum outside of s0lstice? As you may have noticed I'm for Rayn and Lazer scum atm. Their explanations become increasingly dangly, hence I'd like you to take a look at the matter and comment on it. If you don't think they're worthy of the noose, please give me a rundown on why I should be voting s0lstice instead of them. This question is kinda old now but you left it unanswered. You didn't comment on the Rayn/Lazer/Me matter at all. New question: What happened to your s0lstice scumread? | ||
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Says "WoS will show if he is town when he starts playing". I will go into more detail about your post and your reads over time, but for a start I'd like you to tell me how this is supposed to be an argument that makes fuba scum. | ||
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Says "WoS will show if he is town when he starts playing". In his next post he comments on some random people (for what?), and does not comment on WoS/JarJar in any way (hey, you were supposed to be good in reading WoS??). Fuba is scum in your opinion cause he doesn't talk about those you think should be talked about? In his first post you mentioned all WoS posted was french stuff. He could not possibly have offered a good read at early stage, no? Then drops his vote on me without adding anything to the case, only that "it would be much easier to fakeclaim miller here" which is certainly not true. scum. Why did you not comment on JarJar/WoS in any way in your big post? You must have a read on both of them, let us hear it. Dunno man, it looks to me like he explains it pretty well: rayn: After Vivax's marv post, I expected rayn to be less insistent on him being confirmed town. It would have been *much* easier for scum to fakeclaim miller in this situation than I thought, and I don't see how this isn't obvious from a town perspective. Add to that Vivax's case, where he points out that rayn accepts the existence of a miller at face value, and I'm pretty convinced. He's far too eager to accept the claim as truth, when it should now have little effect on the mind of a townie. My only reluctance to vote for him is his activity level, which I tend to associate with town. That he thinks you're scum for the same reason I do doesn't make him scum either. Overall you argue that fuba is scum just cause he doesn't do what you want I think. | ||
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In his first post you mentioned (where he said he waited for WoS to post more), all WoS posted at the time was french stuff This is less equivocal | ||
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Do you think marv is town? | ||
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On July 01 2013 22:19 JarJarDrinks wrote: Well, I did mention that I'm now leaning town on rayne based on his recent postings. I do happen to disagree w/ almost all of his reads though. Lazer I'm not sure of. I don't think that there'd be more than 1 scum piling on me and I have a strong scumread on gumshoe. I think you're town. I think you've made decent cases that have actual substance. I still have a scumread on solstice. Just not as strong as gumshoe. Solstice hasn't really posted too much since I accused him. What do you want to convey by saying that s0lstice hasn't posted much? Is it related to your read of him? Why not sure of Lazer, what makes you doubt he could be town? | ||
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On July 01 2013 22:29 Stutters695 wrote: Also vivax, if you think I'm scum for trying to distance myself from him, why would I defend him so much when I saw something Ithought you were misinterpreting? Seems like a weak ass reason to switch from your main read. The supposed distancing thing was your early strange question, coupled with him calling you scum, with both of you pretty much ignoring each other afterwards. Speaking of weak ass reasons, can you point me to a post of yours where you actually mention a single reason for thinking fuba and JJ are scum? You said you would dive them at various points, but I never saw you emerging. | ||
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On July 01 2013 22:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Comment on the reads JarJar. What's wrong and why. Vivax, would you, as town not comment anything on present suspects at that time, when you have earlier implied you can read them well? Also would you not try to read people you can read well at the start of the game and why? Also i don't have a problem with Fuba agreeing with your case, because that sort of a mistake can be easily done as town. The thing is that he is trying to tell the things you have already said with his own words (i see that as trying to look genuine, when actually not having anything to add, and afraid of sheeping) and the only thing he adds to the case is plain out wrong. But he did comment on present suspects, just not the suspects you wanted him to comment on. Maybe he didn't talk about WoS cause he didn't find him interesting. I don't know, but not talking about someone doesn't necessarily make you scum, simply ask him for an opinion maybe. Regarding the trying to look genuine, where do you draw the line between him doing that as scum, and sheeping my case along with mentioning the points he agrees with as town? Would you think it'd have been more genuine if he went all like "Ok I sheep Vivax for no particular reason, I just agree with him". Do you think he has to add something new if the reasons posted are already good? | ||
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On July 01 2013 22:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Stop with the stupid connection cases before red flips. There is no base in Vivax Stutters read because it's based on me and him being scum which can't possibly be true. It's stutters bringing that up, not me bro. If you ask me questions about connection arguments don't start whining if I explain what I think of it. I just see you being scum together, stutters is scummy for the reasons s0lstice mentioned. | ||
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If you allude to the "comment on people you can read-question", I did answer it by telling you to ask fuba to deliver a read on WoS. Put yourself into fuba's shoes, you say you can read a dude well. You don't talk about him cause you prefer delivering reads on other people. How is that related to alignment? Cause maybe he doesn't think WoS is worth commenting on (town)? Cause WoS is his scumbuddy and scum never talks of scumbuddies (scum)? You talk of connection cases being retarded when this part of your case is CONNECTION BASED, would you believe it? Fuba is scum cause he doesn't comment on someone you think is scum. Is he inconsistent? Well, so are you: On July 01 2013 06:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why can't any of you understand that as the millers have role-names, it's too fucking risky to claim miller as mafia??!?!?!?!? If there was another miller claim, who is to say marv gets to say his role name last? Me? Certainly not. If someone had cc'd him i would totally have him claim his role name first, because marv has balls to do something like this. Not counting the fact that it's incredibly stupid, and no other miller claims proves even more that i am right in what i have said. On June 30 2013 19:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: No it's not. Fakeclaiming miller 5min into the game is dumb and unnecessary as scum and if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first. | ||
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OK, because like I said, I like the cases he's made. I agree w/ everything he pointed out about you in regards to the miller/marv stuff. It's the same type of stuff that made me suspicious of you in the first place. If you agree with me, why are gumshoe and s0lstice your scumreads but not Rayn/lazer/stutters? | ||
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On July 01 2013 23:16 JarJarDrinks wrote: Someone comment on this exchange: How is this not scummy as hell? He jumps on me for saying something. He then basically admits that he'd do the exact same thing in my situation and tries to turn the whole exchange around. I agree that those reasons you quote aren't sufficient to call you scum, he's basically calling you scum for changing a read and claiming to vote selfishly. But I don't know this dude, how sure are you that it's scum pushing you as opposed to a bad townie? | ||
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Why are you avoiding the question, it's a very simple one, here: Which I answered with more than just yes or no, cause the way you put it is construed to force out a yes. So I have presented arguments that show that whichever the answer is, it's not alignment indicative. He said he can read a dude well, but didn't post a read on that dude but on other reads. I don't see how that's something exclusively scum would do. "It would have been *much* easier for scum to fakeclaim miller in this situation than I thought, and I don't see how this isn't obvious from a town perspective." - It is much harder to claim miller when we take account the role-names No, if the town miller claims first the scum miller can simply say the other name, and in all of this you supposed that marv would be the town miller, as shown by the quote where you contradict yourself, coz you expected that the miller claiming after him WOULD HAVE TO BE scum. As last out, scum can always argue that there are two millers. In the end, you mention all this shit afterwards just to justify your instatownread on marv which was so scummy. You can beat this to death with all your pre-game assumptions you claim to have had about millers, but you swallowing marv's claim and then increasingly adding reasons to it when the game progressed tells a whole other story. " Add to that Vivax's case, where he points out that rayn accepts the existence of a miller at face value" - I never did so. I said "scum won't fakeclaim miller unless dumb, marv is not dumb". I did not accep the existance of a miller at face value. When marv claimed miller i accepted that he is town at face value. This is so dumb, when you accepted marv being town at face value you also accepted the existence of a miller at face value, cause the alternative was no miller and marv scum, which you never considered cause you knew he was town. Even when marv tells you that he fakeclaimed miller before, you kept treating him as confirmed town. Marv is not dumb enough to fakeclaim miller you say, but he tells you he did it in another game and you still don't question it at all. Later you add up the justification that it's dumber in this game cause of miller names, even when you say that the guy after marv would have to claim his name first, effectively showing that you still expected marv to be the town miller among the two. On June 30 2013 06:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Cool. If nobody counterclaims the next step is that the third party (if here) is going to protect you. On June 30 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: marv, now that i can be sure that you are town and i do actually have to find scum instead of bullshitting around, let's work together and find all the mafia on D1. Deal? | ||
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WaveofShadow: Useless. Even says he will be useless. Why not say something useful instead? Continues being useless, like having voted Stutters and what's the follow up? He does not try to find out his scumbuddies, he doesn't question him in any way. Actually, he does not question anyone in any way. If JarJar is somehow town WoS is sure scum by trying to avoid attention after called out. Who is scum WoS and why? What are your thoughts on Vivax/JarJar/Fuba? Sick case. Lynching people for being useless after having claimed to be busy. I have a better idea, we lynch you. | ||
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Since people argue there can't be two millers, we take away one name. I would also tentatively remove a blue role. That leaves 9 townies with 9 different names, assuming no Landa or people with same names. A mass claim could be pretty strong under these assumptions. If scum got fake PM's, then they will have the same name as some other townie. | ||
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Do you expect to get counterclaimed? I'd leave such a plan for later cause we have to protect the blues. It would actually be pretty stupid to do it while they are alive. But it's a worthy strategy for after their death. | ||
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WoS seems to completely lack suspicion in his filter, being laid back and uninvolved is usually a scum trait. | ||
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On June 30 2013 20:07 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not sure how relevant that is. (Does anyone know if iGrok is the type of host to give requests rather than RNG?) As for Vayne, there's not a great deal to say. Played here in one of the first games on the site, disappears and plays on Mafiascum for a while (I think?). Comes back, does decently in newbie games, then causes a whole bunch of shit when playing with the big boys because his playstyle doesn't fit with how we play on TL. He often talks big about how he doesn't do much analysis on the first day but then gets criticized when his play doesn't pick up on subsequent days. Is lynchbait in a lot of his town games and some of his play is questionable. His sole game as mafia was with me and he did really well. Trying to recognize someone as lynchbait worries me a little, Lazer. It becomes one of those WIFOM things where we don't know: a) Are you targeting him because he is lynchbait and you get a pass on that if he flips green? b) Are you targeting him because he looks scummy to you? This was an issue with jaybrundage in Roulette mini. His play on the lynchbait thing was different in that he self-acknowledged as lynchbait at the start of the game (which I found scummy) and said anyone who goes after him as such was scummy. Turned out he was scum, but me and mostly everyone else ended up not doing much suspecting of him throughout the game because despite saying he was lynchbait, he didn't act as such. That honestly should have set off alarms for me and everyone else much earlier. This may seem off-topic but in conclusion my stance on it is lynchbait or not, if he's not actively disruptive to town play, and not acting/playing scummy, then I have no reason to lynch him currently. I had talked in an earlier obs QT about the idea of policy lynching because Vayne ends up lynchbait a lot and doesn't play when asked a lot, but that doesn't seem to be the case this game as I mentioned to him, plus I don't think I have the pull/balls to carry off a straight policy lynch. | ||
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On July 02 2013 00:25 JarJarDrinks wrote: I vote yes to mass claim. We will definately get counterclaims, meaning we choose a pair and @ worst get a 50/50 shot. It also means that scum can't shoot into anyone that they claim giving the PRs a bit more power @ night. You think it's no problem if we out cop/veteran/vigilante or whatever? I think it is. Cop will get roleblocked or shot. Veteran will get roleblocked and shot. Vigilante becomes foreseeable. | ||
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But most certainly he won't comment on something that is potentially gamebreaking. | ||
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Miller has claimed. Assuming town. Leaves 11 names for 8 townies, assuming no Landa. Take away a blue role and a miller, you have 9 for 8. Hence, scum has 1 name for fakeclaim. Gives us the chance to snatch 2 scum. I suggest we let people claim selectively. Hence I won't claim cause I'm super townie. If a guy claims the same name as I have I'll counterclaim him though. I guess we let the guy set for lynch claim and if he doesn't get counterclaimed we proceed to the next scummiest guy. | ||
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Initially iGrok wanted us to have the characters' names, it was foreseeable that we could claim them. Dandel's blooper only changed the flavour of the PM's. But yeah, ultimately it's up to the host. It's not nice if he'd suddenly change the rules but it's also kinda hard for scum if they can be catched that way. We should probably wait and see what Grok has to say to that. Btw I suggest looking at people who felt certain Jar Jar was town when he appeared to be the furthest thing from it, I'm of the opinion that scum did not bus Jar Jar because they felt confident they could get Rayne This is bs though. There are 3 scum, unless he assumes that me fuba and Oats are all scum then it doesn't add up (fuba didn't even vote in the voting thread I think). Overall, there has been more pressure on the JJ wagon iirc, I think I'll have to take a closer look at gumshoe cause what he just wrote is quite suspicious. | ||
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On July 02 2013 01:16 VayneAuthority wrote: can we agree collectively as a game to not claim roles in this open setup? It's pretty broken and I didn't sign up for a lets all claim and lynch at 50/50 game. With that said I am mainly looking at lazer/WoS now. Lazer's posting has been fairly more townie as of recently but the fact that he OMGUS'd me from my accusations is a bit alarming when he gave very little reasoning. It seems like he's trying to keep himself on the good side of most of the people in the game so instead of scum hunting he just goes right back at the accuser. As for WoS I am not really a fan of what he's done so far, he has been very passive yet exceedingly angry which is somewhat how he played in Les Mis. The fact that he says I am playing differently and doesn't know what to make of it leads me to believe that he knows I am town somehow, might have been a scumslip. What did you find fairly townie about lazer's posting? | ||
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On July 02 2013 01:23 Stutters695 wrote: My vote on JJD was a straight sheep, I liked his case. I didn't have time to type up a case last night but this post is why I'd be ok seeing Fuba hang. First, remember after the post Rayne jumped on me for he said I reminded him of Vayne in Roulette (scummy but town by PoE to pretty much everyone in the thread if you haven't read it). First half is all summaries, meaningless since anyone reading the thread would know those events. Probably null, maybe slightly scummy. His point on Oats is decent, and pretty much how I feel, nothing wrong there. Vayne: null, nothing of value except a question that he's never here to follow up on. Me: Says my actions are null to scummy but I remind him of a townie from the last game we played? Why is this Fuba? Scared to take a stance? Vivax: only slight town yet he has nothing bad to say about him. Why only slight town? Again not very committal. Marv: useless fluff Rayne: Essentially agrees with Vivax on who is scum and why yet neglects any other posts from Rayn to show a scum mindset or any individual thought. Essentially his entire post is trying to cover up the fact that all he is doing is agreeing with Vivax. Where is your usual analysis Fuba? Don't you think that post is analysis? Why would scum try to cover up that they're agreeing with me? Is it dangerous for them to agree with me? | ||
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On July 02 2013 01:30 VayneAuthority wrote: The fact that he's going out of his way to make other reads and cases when there is very little reason to do as he has little pressure. He's pretty half and half for me now, because on the other side he is ready to sheep a JJD lynch off of 1 post and keeps bringing me up as a scum read even though he has given little reason as to why or how. It reminds me of jaybrundage in roulette when I pretty much told the thread he was getting ready to mislynch me the following day. Just seems like he is keeping that in his back pocket for later. Look guys I have been saying he was scum the whole game! *votes* Lazer is a quite good scum player when it comes to looking active and townie. He should always be kept under good scrutiny. Check Noir Mini Mafia. I have that Deutsch feeling about him too. Fine explanation from you so far, but I have issues with your activity, I am used to you being more constantly in the thread. | ||
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On July 02 2013 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: The point is Fuba, if i had been miller i would have done just what marv did, i would have not claimed my role name in case some scum wants to claim miller aswell. If i was scum i would never ever claim miller in fear of that someone claims and i have to contest them in "who tells their rolename first" which could result in 50% outright chance of me being outed. The way marv claimed makes perfect sense to me if he is town. The way marv claimed makes zero sense to me as scum, because i would never myself claim as scum, and that's why i think marv is town. 40 % chance of there being counterclaimed. 50 % chance of having to say your name last and picking the one you want. 40/100 * 50/100 = 2000 /10000 = 1/5 chance of the claim failing like you say. If anything the other rolename makes it easier coz you can claim to be the other miller. Fact of the matter, marv told you he fakeclaimed in another game. You didn't care. Fact of the matter, you were hostile towards miller claims in Roulette. And you want to tell us that you were acting all differently than in Roulette just cause here you can have two different millers with two different names? | ||
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On July 02 2013 02:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: 'm going to take a relook into Lazer if i am able to when i get back, because i just realized something. scum have fucking 2 KP. Wat wat. I don't see ANYTHING in the OP written about scum KP. Where did you get that information? | ||
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While I feel that what he did after the claim was scummy, I feel he is so stubborn in his defense that I'll rather judge him by the coming play, being confident that he will stay active. But mostly I like that he announced he'd take a closer look at LM, and WoS looks like a good lynch to me as well, and I feel that he is compatible with a scum Lazer given the nature of Lazer's comments on WoS. Hence, today I'm going to vote for Lazer or Wos probably. But I need to reread and see which one is probably the better call. I'm still kinda suspicious of stutters for his too-careful-for-my-taste posts in regards to Rayn but he has been fairly active lately. ##Unvote @ Stutters What's your opinion on a WoS/Lazer lynch? | ||
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First of all, I noticed that Lazer called his scumread Vayne a lynch bait, WoS called him out for it. Lazer said he can't be scum for that cause scum wouldn't call their targets lynch bait. That kinda gives me the impression that the two can't be scum together cause Lazer's answer was pretty defensive, but it's not to be taken for granted: + Show Spoiler + I don't get how the sentences are contradicting each other : /. And its not really that much of WIFOM. If I am scum, couldn't I just say "hey, these posts by Vayne probably means he is scum" and then just push for his lynch, not giving a fuck? Instead I said "hey, these posts by Vayne are suspcious, but if he usually plays like this then its not that big of a scum tell". And no, I'm obviously not giving him auto-town status just because he is a lynch bait, that would be retarded Lol. But there is a reason lynch baits are lynch baits. They get lynched. Lazer starts with having stutters as scumread. Goes on to call Vayne scummy. Proceeds to write some stuff up against Oats (and gets mad when attacked) "Checks this JarJar dude" after gumshoe posts his case. Makes a push out of it. Until this point, he doesn't write more about his former scumreads. Afterwards claims he still has Vayne as scumread and would lynch him too. Says I give him bad vibes for tunnelling. His read on WoS goes from slightly scummy to neutral. He didn't communicate his thought process on the guy, he only talks about him when asked. No pushes except for JarJar. No questioning his scumreads. Quote collection, chronologic: Some good points raised by Ray regarding stutters! Let's get this wagon rolling, shall we? ##Unvote ##Vote: Stutters695 Like I already said, I think your points against stutters are good. The fact that he is very fast to doubt Marv's claim yet does not take a clear stance, the fact that he said that his french is rusty instead of just translating the sentence and the fact that he asks why his own posts are bad and then goes on to afk is rubbing me in a bad way. WoS isn't contributing in anyway, which is bad. His posting is careless though and its bad no matter what alignment he is basically. Mildly suspicious. On June 30 2013 19:42 Lazermonkey wrote: Is Vayne a lynch bait or something? Makes a post about why I am scummy for several bad reasons. Then what? nothing... He makes 4 addiotional posts but doesn't follow up at all. Thhese posts are just general BS about why we shouldn't policy lynch him and that gumshoe is town because Pretty suspicious of him calling me out for not wanting to scum hunt, yet he doesn't follow up his own suspicions a singel bit. Why doesn't he try to convince others that I am suspicious rather than defend himself when he is in no danger of dying? I do find Vayne's play scummy, that's why I asked. And no, I don't mean a policy type of lynch. I mean a you-are-likely-scum type of lynch. What is your take on his post about me that he ends up doing nothing with, and instead tries to defend himself from attacks that aren't really attacks? Also, I don't understand why me trying to recognize him as a lynch bait makes me look suspcious in your eyes. If he is a lynch bait, everyone will know that sooner or later. Thing is, scum can just ignore the fact he is a lynch bait and just push him because he looks scummy. Applying your logic in the case of a Vayne lynch, I would bad because I questioned if he was a lynch bait whereas scum looks better because they didn't. And this is the last, go read his filter thx lol. | ||
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On July 02 2013 03:31 Stutters695 wrote: I explained why I disagreed with your case. Truth be told I haven't scrutinized his play too much since then but I don't think his "slip" if you want to call it that is indicative of anything, at least not on its own. I'll read up on WoS/Lazer but is there a particular thing you don't like about my Fuba case? Well I asked you out about some aspects. You say it isn't analysis, to me it looked like analysis. You say he posts fluff to join me in my case, I don't take for granted that he did it to look like he was contributing. He joined it mentioing the reasons that made him join it, that doesn't make him scum since town can have a motive to do that too (transparency). | ||
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On July 02 2013 03:44 VayneAuthority wrote: I am glad you guys settled your dispute, I kinda glazed over the whole rayn/miller thing as it wasn't too interesting to me but I get a town vibe from both vivax and rayn, although it has been proven I cannot read rayn in the past. Since there seems to be some support for the lynch I will now cast my vote until WoS/lazer says anything. I wouldn't be Vivax without a heated discussion with other headstrong people  | ||
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On July 02 2013 04:15 marvellosity wrote: On page 15 and getting seriously bored with this miller shit Well finish quickly so I can start tunneling you. | ||
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On July 02 2013 04:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also don't like the fact that first Fuba says he understands why i think marv is town, but when Vivax makes his case on me he suddenly goes "oh yeah, those are good points, you can't think like that as town". Vivax presents an alternative thought process for me. Fuba has agreed it's possible that i have town!reasons for thinking marv is town, but suddenly the town!reasons that were there exist no more. What do you think about what i just said Vivax? At least i would never do that as town. If i have formed a read on someone for some reason i just don't drop those reasons instantly when someone gives an alternative read until something radical happens, and thread sentiment changing to think i am scum does not count, because that could be scum motivated. Well the case swayed quite a few people who seemed to have you as town before: stutters, lazer etc, although the two said I made good points but didn't join the wagon and instead retreated to give you a townread. It also swayed fuba, but he actually did join the wagon. If someone looks bad in this situation, it's rather lazer and stutters over fuba. Agreeing with my points and then hesitate to attack you at such an early stage is probably something scum is more likely to do. Like, agree with the attacker, but also defend the "victim" at the same time. That is surely something that makes you look considerate and careful, especially when you know that both are town, and it allows you to switch stance later, without pissing off either of them. Overall I didn't feel like lynching fuba from the start. I'll have another look at him though. | ||
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Rereading fuba I just noticed this shit: On July 01 2013 07:00 mkfuba07 wrote: Oats's vote on rayn was interesting, because I didn't think of rayn's actions from that persepective. The thing is, though, rayn had thought the situation through. The way oats presents it is as though rayn simply saw marv claim miller, and accepted it as true. Then went on to buddy him. This is clearly not what happened. *snip* rayn: After Vivax's marv post, I expected rayn to be less insistent on him being confirmed town. It would have been *much* easier for scum to fakeclaim miller in this situation than I thought, and I don't see how this isn't obvious from a town perspective. Add to that Vivax's case, where he points out that rayn accepts the existence of a miller at face value, and I'm pretty convinced. He's far too eager to accept the claim as truth, when it should now have little effect on the mind of a townie. My only reluctance to vote for him is his activity level, which I tend to associate with town. ##Vote: raynpelikoneet Everyone else is gonna need a filter dive, and I'm going to have to reread the posts I read while writing this, but I feel comfortable with my vote where it is. In the same post he says Rayn didn't take the claim at face value, then he says I pointed it out and suddenly it's true? Wtf. This needs explanation. | ||
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Given your spare comments about the two it would be nice if you could lead us towards a read on them, if you are town. | ||
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He talked with you about this btw. Given you have Vayne as scumread, and WoS called him a policy lynch after arguing with you that he can't be called lynchbait, why weren't you at least a little suspicious of WoS? On July 02 2013 00:23 Vivax wrote: Specifically, I don't like this post about Vayne, it feels like he talks a lot about something which is completely irrelevant to finding scum. Arguing about the definition of lynch baits and Vayne's meta was not something really relevant at the stage where he wrote that: | ||
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On July 02 2013 05:28 Lazermonkey wrote: I don't get it. Why would I be suspicious of him becuase of the policy shit? Maybe cause he writes a lengthy post for why Vayne isn't lynch bait, then concludes with saying that he doesn't have a read on him and is a policy lynch? You had a scumread on him, I would imagine that such a post would raise red flags for me if I had Vayne as scumread. It already did without me having Vayne as scumread. | ||
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On July 02 2013 05:32 marvellosity wrote: why are we not lynching Vayne? His filter is extraordinarily short (i know, i know). also just found this Vayne pretty much admits himself in past games that he likes to solve games by night interactions and kills, claims etc. Seems completely against his MO to advise against it this game. Gumshoe said he wouldn't do that either. Either way, we wait for confirmation from the host, then we can still do that eventually, and it's not necessarily scummy if you think that resorting to strategies like that is lame. Treat it as WIFOM if you like, but scum would be afraid to oppose such a request openly imo. I'm dropping my vote on Lazer. ##Vote Lazermonkey | ||
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Where did your reads of us go? | ||
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On July 02 2013 05:40 marvellosity wrote: they're shocking reasons and you need to re-read his filter. No, you need to post reasons to lynch Vayne. You just finished reading the game and pretend to know that WoS and Vayne are scum. First you ask for WoS to be lynched. When that doesn't work, you start pushing Vayne. You clearly don't want to lynch neither Lazer nor fuba. | ||
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As said, gumshoe disagreed with doing it too. But you don't seem to give a fuck about gumshoe. | ||
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Some part of me wants to lynch Lazer for not pushing his reads. The other wants to trust marv and lynch Vayne, but I liked his explanations, not his activity. Another part wants to lynch fuba for his odd contradiction. | ||
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I'm staying on Laz0r | ||
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Fucks sake dude | ||
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On July 02 2013 05:55 JarJarDrinks wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: WaveofShadow Explain this shit. Where did you ever spend a word about WoS? | ||
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On July 02 2013 06:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: because it looked like the only wagons @ the time were WoS, Lazer, and Vayne and I felt that was the best vote. The fuba thing just up and happened out of thin air. I think he's a bad lynch. Don't you think the contradiction I pointed out which has been left unanswered by fuba is scummy? | ||
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On July 02 2013 06:20 marvellosity wrote: I've just been staring at that quote Vivax brought up. Does seem pretty contradictory. Maybe we should lynch him if he doesn't come back to explain himself shortly. Looks like you wanna lynch anyone that gets a majority over fuba or Lazermonkey tbh. First WoS, then Vayne, now me. What's contradictory? | ||
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On July 02 2013 06:22 Lazermonkey wrote: JarJar is very liekly not scum... noone counter claimed his role, which means that unless he was really really lucky, he cannot be scum. He means fuba's quote, not yours or mine probably | ||
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On July 02 2013 04:59 Vivax wrote: WAIT WHAT Rereading fuba I just noticed this shit: In the same post he says Rayn didn't take the claim at face value, then he says I pointed it out and suddenly it's true? Wtf. This needs explanation. | ||
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On July 02 2013 05:40 mkfuba07 wrote: The writing of the first line and the writing in the last substantial paragraph happened about four hours apart. There were quite a few pages between those, and you presented a perspective I hadn't considered. Ok, this is the explanation. I think I can actually buy it if you believe that fuba started writing the post at one point at finished it at another. There's no way to check that through but the explanation is simple and confident imo. | ||
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No counterclaim against Lazer yet. Quick rundown of opinions on...S0lstice. Why? I think his comeback timing is kinda scummy. And his post before doing so was this: On July 01 2013 13:02 s0Lstice wrote: wow that was quick service lol. its pretty clear you were writing that while I was reading your past games. if the meta doesn't hold, it doesn't hold. I'm very frustrated in regards to you JJ. I feel like the combination of you suspecting me for bad reasons and misreading you in Les Mis is really fucking with me. I think the wise thing is to wait and see a bit. I definitely need to read gumshoe. I haven't had time to look hard at his filter after a feel based town read, so he's a bit of a blindspot for me. He was pretty much outside of the general focus so far. We can assume that scum didn't want to push him despite his low activity, and that is one more scumpoint. | ||
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I think I'll just sheep marv cause I'm not very reliable atm. | ||
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Lazer claimed cop. So I'm not taking the risk. Fuba's explanation is something I could believe. It looks genuine. Who's in for WoS? We have 15 mins | ||
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On July 02 2013 06:12 JarJarDrinks wrote: because it looked like the only wagons @ the time were WoS, Lazer, and Vayne and I felt that was the best vote. The fuba thing just up and happened out of thin air. I think he's a bad lynch. You think he's the best vote, you know I would vote for him. Why do you give up on going for WoS so quickly? | ||
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I hope Lazer gets counterclaimed lol. If he's really rolecop, then scum can keep him alive for another night, since he will prime his check on marv. If he's scum, they can withhold roleblock if they have Hitler and justify him staying alive. So yeah, he'll still be useless or dead even if he's really cop. It was a fairly inactive D1 so I'm hoping that people like WoS, s0lstice and marv will show more of their play soon. | ||
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On July 02 2013 07:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Vivax why was WoS more likely to be scum than Vayne? I mentioned specific reasons for lynching WoS, tbh I didn't find proper reasons on my own to lynch Vayne, except that he was more inactive than usual. But in the end I decided to sheep marv cause I felt clueless and no one except JJ declared to join me in the WoS lynch, and marv would have lynched WoS as well, and that left me thinking that since marv is left with the same choices as me, he can probably be trusted. I just hope I didn't make a mistake by buying fuba's explanation for his contradiction. But saying he wrote different parts of the post at different times is actually a feasible explanation. We're still waiting for Oats and WoS though. I dídn't really like Lazer's claim timing and will probably lynch him first if one of them counterclaims him. | ||
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On July 02 2013 07:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah if someone cc's him they are probably town and Lazer is scum. What do you think of Oats? Like for real? I don't think he has done anything but called me scum and JarJar town. His tunnel on you looked very authentic, and he put a lot of emotion and effort into it. I don't think he'd have pulled that off as scum, regardless of your alignment. What he did not doesn't really matter imo as I don't think that he would skip on the deadline presence even if he was scum. He's probably just busy. I'll very likely not lynch Oats this game. | ||
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He says he couldn't find a reason of his own to lynch Vayne other than the fact that he was more inactive than usual. Yeah let's ignore my absence or the fact that I couldn't defend myself either for a day. You feel the need to defend yourself for something I found Vayne to be guilty of? I'll have kinda limited time today, but WoS looks pretty bad to me. As Oats mentioned, his shit is unfocused and I don't really see a townie line of thinking forming from his reads, it's more like he comments on anything that could be construed as scummy, but without drawing conclusions while doing so. Plus, stuff like this I should actually be around during the day a little if people feel like talking to me. gives me the impression he takes a passive stance in the game. "Yeah talk to me if u want lolz else I won't be posting much". WoS is more proactive than this as town. Sure, he was busy and shit, but if this is his new activity, then he can be sure to have my breath in his neck next day. This looks like the kind of "Let me write a ton of shit and fuck off"-activity. Finds a bunch of stuff scummy from one guy (Lazer), doesn't dig further into that guy but heads towards JJD while complaining about the miller discussion, then calls my post scummy. In his final posts he mentions people he wants to look into, effectively leaving all his previous "analysis" inconcluded, then adds some more points against stutters. No sign of Lazer, who he said he would be voting for that post, or me, posting something that "screams" to WoS. Or JJD for that matter. All the scummy stuff he found but still no intention to show how the concerned people are scummy, only the intention to write a load of stuff. Anyhow, will probably be back around deadline. | ||
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Pretty sure the dude is town. Rayn you have this "habit" to want people dead who want you dead. You have to realize that he most likely simply is sure that you are scum. Can you tell me who you will most likely lynch tomorrow, as scum lynch not as pollicy lynch please? | ||
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On July 02 2013 18:29 marvellosity wrote: Hi guys. How much do you think random townie name claims are worth? Was running through my head around a bit last night, and I'm basically kinda assuming scum got at least some fakeclaims. I already played it through. If we remove 1 miller and 1 blue role, it leaves 1 name that scum can use to fakeclaim. Since host seems to be ok with such a strategy I'm all for a mass claim after this night. Given that the presumed cop already claimed at worst we out the vigi, the vet and the vengeful townie, but prolly snatch two scum, unless your miller claim is fake and Lazer's too and there is no cop, then the scenario will change in some way. Worst thing that can happen after a mass claim is that scum will avoid shooting the vet. | ||
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On July 02 2013 19:09 Oatsmaster wrote: there are only 12 roles that scum could viably claim. There are 9 townies. So 3 extra roles including other miller. I know. That's why I took out 1 miller and 1 blue role (cause I don't think all blue roles are in the game) Leaves you 1 name | ||
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On July 02 2013 19:13 Oatsmaster wrote: well I assume if scum is gonna claim blue and possibly get 1-2 townies for himself. I think its a decent chance. If vigi shoots tonigt, scum can hardly fakeclaim that. If they claim vengeful townie and all other roles have claimed as well, then there'd be kinda too many roles, meaning one of the blues is lying. Lazer will have to prove he's cop by his play. Mind you though, if he's scum and scum has Hitler, then they can roleblock + kill a townie and Lazer can claim a roleblock, that's why Lazer can not be trusted anyway, his cop claim makes him useless at the same time. I actually feel like I should have gone on and lynch him cause his claim is worth jack either way, town or scum, his claim won't tell us anything about that. | ||
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Claiming 4 minutes before the presumed deadline might be indicative of him being afraid of getting ccd if he did that earlier. | ||
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On July 02 2013 19:21 marvellosity wrote: It's not 100% clear from the OP that *only* the names listed are in the game maybe? I assume you guys have names from the OP? I'm 99 % sure only the names listed are in the game. It says "these roles will be in the game". Why would the host give someone a name other than ones listed there? | ||
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Now let me catch up, I'm at p53 | ||
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Rayn, calm down. I've done the same mistakes as you in putting such importance into such events. It happens, but lay back for a moment and think you could be wrong (about the reason, not the read). I remember you saying that there can be miller but no cop cause it fucks with town. I didn't look up to find the quote but I remember seeing it somewhere earlier, and I think it was you. As I would guess, you were extremely suspicious of Lazer and immediately thought marv was his scumbuddy cause lack of suspicion and cause he worked against his lynch yesterday. That's fine, those are fine reasons, but pushing the issue that marv has to be scum cause miller means there has to be a cop necessarily is not true. It makes the whole situation look stupid and isn't good for your cause. Deadline is probably too close, but a neatly summarized case with all points you have in mind would help. If you die and I survive I will do you the favour to bring all your points under one roof and put my own insight as addendum into it, Lazer is my suspect as well and I feel like taking a close look at marv as well. | ||
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On July 03 2013 06:52 JarJarDrinks wrote: This seems like a real wierd thing to know. Well he's right actually, the spoiler with the roles descriptions was added afterwards. Did you see anyone knowing of scum KP before that got changed? | ||
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Marv, iirc Lazer wasn't a suspect of yours before his cop claim, now you say you have doubts cause of the timing of his claim but you think he's more likely to be town. That's indeed kinda weird. If you didn't think he was scum in the first place and the claim seems legit, what makes you say that the claim stirs doubts in you? | ||
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Although as the deadline was actually extended, it does make it that much more likely that he's cop This isn't really relevant as it's relevant what Lazer believed the deadline to be at. Do you have evidence to back that Lazer knew deadline was actually one hour later? Else this statement looks pretty biased coming from you. | ||
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On July 03 2013 07:06 marvellosity wrote: No, the point is that if a real cop existed, and the deadline WAS 4 minutes away, he was either not looking at the thread during that moment, or if he was around thought it was too risky to counterclaim and maybe not even get Lazer lynched. The fact that there was another hour of time gave a lot more time for any potential counterclaim to happen and get Lazer lynched, but this didn't happen. It's still irrelevant to mention the hour of time then, as this can be reduced to the argument that lazer is supposed to be legit cop cause uncounterclaimed, which is unrelated to the timing of the counterclaim imo. So the best course in your opinion is to swallow the claim unquestioned and not judge lazer by his play? | ||
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On July 03 2013 07:12 marvellosity wrote: I've just explained why, all you have to do is read it and understand. When did I ever say that was the best course of action? Don't put words in my mouth. There's no need to get defensive. It's simply that I have the impression you're trying to sell his claim as legit. Why would you do that if you would have wanted him to be scrutinized. As for reading and understanding, I don't see on what I missed. I don't understand how your argument applies to deadline time. What does it matter if Lazer gets counterclaimed within one hour or later? | ||
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On July 02 2013 05:37 marvellosity wrote: haven't got time to work all that out, i'm just looking at Vayne's filter and it's pathetic. Lazer's filter looks like he's trying. I'd like to talk more about your reasons. I mean, you read through the whole game as far as I saw, but you didn't work all that out, yet Rayne presented you with the reasons for having Lazer as scumread, and you skip over the reasons and judge two filters by the amount of trying. I realize this is accusatory, but I don't see how someone points you to something being scummy and you say you didn't have time to work it out, but one guy posts more than the other and hence is less scummy. Even afterwards you had plenty of time to comment on the Lazer stuff. | ||
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Hardly seen town marv give a townread based on tryharding and skip on everything else presented. It was fucking deadline man, you don't skip on reading a guy and brush him off cause he's tryharding. That reflects lack of caring. Lazer/Marv interactions have bad taste to them, too. Also cause it's funny when marv gets mad. | ||
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On July 03 2013 07:48 marvellosity wrote: No, it reflects using my time wisely. Also it's funny cause you're a dick and also possibly scum. The list lengthens  Wtf dude. You were still in time to talk about Lazer. We are talking about Lazer all the fucking time. You defend his claim. You say we put words in your mouth when we say you think he's town. You don't think "Oh well these guys might actually be right I'll go read him and give my opinion on him". You become all pissy and defensive, and still show zero doubt about and information gathering on lazer, which is scummy regardless of his alignment. | ||
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But you don't even have a definite opinion on Lazer you could be right about. | ||
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By the way "scummy regardless of alignment" might be the stupidest thing I've ever read. Whether you defend a scumbuddy or a townie, doing so without the proper reasons or a townie decision making process behind it is always scummy. | ||
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Not this time scum | ||
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![[image loading]](http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/god-of-death.gif) | ||
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I suggest the claimed miller cause it tells us how likely cop is. I'm blue, gumshoe is blue, lazer is claimed blue. It's massclaim time. | ||
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On July 03 2013 08:13 marvellosity wrote: We don't lynch either the miller or the claimed cop because both are fucking retarded as all hell. Scum thought that too apparently. I wonder why. | ||
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On July 03 2013 08:15 marvellosity wrote: That post doesn't even say anything Where is your hope that Lazer's claim would resolve itself now? You and Lazer, claimed miller and cop, are still alive. Me and Rayn, unclaimed but supertownie, pushing you two, were shot. Try to brush it off as WIFOM as much as you like. | ||
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Imo, let Fuba and WoS claim their names first next. | ||
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It's still a chance that has to be taken. | ||
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On July 03 2013 08:26 marvellosity wrote: IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE. Of course I'm spelling out the real fucking risks that I'd take as mafia doing this, because the benefits are VERY SMALL and the risk was VERY LARGE. fuck me. 1/5 risk bro, assuming cc chance 40 %, then you can claim the other name or simply guess the name the real miller doesn't have. 0.40 * roughly 0.50 = 1/5 | ||
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It's time to start the wagon of justice on the guy who squeals but doesn't scumhunt. You shouldn't have claimed Oats. Now fuba/WoS, whoever is scum among them can pick a remaining name I think. ##Vote marvellosity | ||
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not necesarily my order of scumminess (though close) but this is the order I think people should claim. Use it if I die: Put marv before gumshoe. The guy isn't pushing any reads. Only defending himself, talking about how his claim would be too risky, and hating. He said himself he fakeclaimed miller in another game. He says the claim isn't risky although he can still outplay the other miller if it comes to it. Look at how he pushes the wagons D1. He was pretty much throwing shit everywhere (WoS, Vayne, fuba) except on Lazer and see what sticks. He said Lazer looked like he was trying, but ignored Rayn saying that Lazer didn't push his scumread Vayne all day long. He just finished reading the thread and showed zero doubt. Even cockiness has a limit. | ||
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On July 03 2013 08:44 gumshoe wrote: A new day has begun, Rayne is dead and that, as somber a verdict, is a new beginning for thought. Expect cases soon. Also I've claimed revenge townie. Why not keep me around in case of a lylo situation? If it gets to that point you can shoot me to be sure and guarantee a win. Until then they're are always other scum. Do you have any specific questions or reads you want from me? How do you feel about my blue claim? I'd rather stop talking about all these claims and judge people by their play. How do you feel about lynching marv? | ||
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Look at WoS posts since my last post. He comes back claiming a shot on marv, mentions it more or less on-the-go, without a reason for it. When he's in the thread with marv, both seem to ignore each other, but marv called everyone else stupid at the very least just for being suspected. WoS is nonexistent for him for claiming a shot. Does this seem natural for you? WoS drops a vote on Lazer, and the guy he has shot suddenly seems to be of no importance. Marv's last post is a pretty shitty bus with a little shit-throwing at me on-the-go. Town marv pushes his lynches a lot, and he talks with his scumreads a lot. This isn't town marv, pretty easy to tell. I'm equally sure that WoS isn't town either. In either case, I wouldn't lynch the claimed cop before either of them. I'm especially interested into lynching the claimed miller cause it will tell us more about the likelihood of a cop. I believe fuba's claim. We'll have to lynch him at some point, but priority is to reduce scum KP today. | ||
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On July 03 2013 19:43 marvellosity wrote: Vivax, all your posts are just mystical stories of things that haven't actually happened. I salute you. Tell me more about WoS please. I'd love seeing you push him. | ||
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Gumshoe said it himself iirc, it's probable that it was a scum lynch on the line. N1 and start of D2 he obviously didn't show having scumreads. A look at the filter is enough. If marv thinks his attackers are shit, he can always proceed to ignore them and push his own lynches. But he doesn't have real scumreads. | ||
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What I want to say is that he didn't show much conviction in pushing them. Those people he claimed looked "bad" were fuba, s0lstice, gumshoe and to a lesser extent JJ. fuba claimed survivor. gumshoe claimed blue. s0lstice joined the massclaim quickly. JJ was the first to claim his name. I am (totally not unbiased ) assuming that these guys are all mislynches. | ||
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I believe fuba's claim. We'll have to lynch him at some point, but priority is to reduce scum KP today. Lazer, who will you lynch if you can't lynch fuba. | ||
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Your arguments are: WoS is scum cause of dull, stupid play. Okay. | ||
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On July 03 2013 21:33 Lazermonkey wrote: Well, Oats and stutters I haven't really looked much into yet. It's more that their claim doesn't really prove them to be town in any shape or form IMO. Solstice has been very lurky and didn't care for shit about the lynch D1 makes me suspicious of him. My initial impression from stutters was that he didn't really have any thoughts of his own but just sheeped whatever was going on at the moment but actually, reading through again, stutters is probably not scum if WoS is because WoS has been up his ass literally all game. And WoS is more likely scum than him I'd say. What makes you think that WoS is scum? | ||
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• Lt. Aldo Raine - American Veteran Vivax 7 • Hans Landa - German Survivor Jailkeeper Fuba 12 • Sgt. Donny Donowitz - American Vigi WoS 11 • Sgt. Hugo Stiglitz - German Miller Marv 1 • Cpl. Wilhelm Wicki - American Parity C Lazer 3 • Pfc. Smithson Utivich - American Townie Rayn Dead- 6 • Pfc. Omar Ulmer - American Townie Stutters 9 • Pierre LaPadite - French Townie S0lstice 8 • Pfc. Hirschberg - American Townie Vayne Dead - 4 • Pfc. Andy Kagan - American Townie Oats 10 • Pfc. Michael Zimmerman - American Tow JJ 2 • Shoshanna - French Vengeful Townie Gumshoe 5 As we see, WoS HAD to claim Vigi, there was literally no other role he could have taken, and given that the order of this mass claim was shit cause we didn't let fuba and WoS claim first, it gave him an out. This is how I currently think the game looks like: Scum has 3 goons. No cop No miller No vigi. Just me, the veteran, and a vengeful townie. Knowing that scum has no Hitler, marv decided that a cop was unlikely, and as I pointed out multiple times, miller claim isn't as risky as he's trying to put it. He fakeclaimed in a game facing odds of 40 % to be counterclaimed, hence we know he doesn't mind risks as scum like he tries to tell us in this game. Lazer claimed cop 4 minutes before the presumed deadline. He was afraid of getting counterclaimed and hence did it only when there was little time left, so any counterclaim couldn't have the time to processed properly. Scum would also have known at this point that there was no miller, hence some more odds in their favour. WoS claimed the only thing left, leaving us with all blues in the game, which is highly improbable. I feel gumshoe's claim was legit cause of timing (he didn't fear getting cc'd) and cause I didn't feel he was mostly townie in general, except I found him odd at one point for proposing a scum team theory I didn't share and found unlikely. This is obviously something that looks almost paranoid, 3 scum with 3 fakeclaims. But I'm confident that lynching marv ALL of their play will fall apart, cause I'm confident that he won't flip miller, making Lazer's cop claim quite more suspicious, and WoS claim is suspicious in itself. The guy claims to have shot marv, I have yet to see him reflecting that intention during N1. There is absolutely NOTHING in his filter that points towards him wanting to shoot marv. Just follow me, lynch marv, and win the game. I already delayed scum victory by being so supertownie that scum shot me. You owe me this much. These guys aren't afraid of bussing each other, they know the massclaim puts them into a bad spot, and only looking at their pla | ||
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and cause I didn't feel he was mostly townie in general Cause I didn't feel he was scummy in general. A reformulation gone bad ^^ | ||
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You care more than you try to make it look like if you keep trying to disrupt me. | ||
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Read it please. The whole game depends on lynching one of those guys (Lazer,WoS, marv). And marv should be the first cause their shit falls apart then. + Show Spoiler + Say hi to the list with the order of claims • Sgt. Hugo Stiglitz - German Miller Marv 1 • Pfc. Michael Zimmerman - American Tow JJ 2 • Cpl. Wilhelm Wicki - American Parity C Lazer 3 • Pfc. Hirschberg - American Townie Vayne Dead - 4 • Shoshanna - French Vengeful Townie Gumshoe 5 • Pfc. Smithson Utivich - American Townie Rayn Dead- 6 • Lt. Aldo Raine - American Veteran Vivax 7 • Pierre LaPadite - French Townie S0lstice 8 • Pfc. Omar Ulmer - American Townie Stutters 9 • Pfc. Andy Kagan - American Townie Oats 10 • Sgt. Donny Donowitz - American Vigi WoS 11 • Hans Landa - German Survivor Jailkeeper Fuba 12 As we see, WoS HAD to claim Vigi, there was literally no other role he could have taken, and given that the order of this mass claim was shit cause we didn't let fuba and WoS claim first, it gave him an out. This is how I currently think the game looks like: Scum has 3 goons. No cop No miller No vigi. Just me, the veteran, and a vengeful townie. Knowing that scum has no Hitler, marv decided that a cop was unlikely, and as I pointed out multiple times, miller claim isn't as risky as he's trying to put it. He fakeclaimed in a game facing odds of 40 % to be counterclaimed, hence we know he doesn't mind risks as scum like he tries to tell us in this game. Lazer claimed cop 4 minutes before the presumed deadline. He was afraid of getting counterclaimed and hence did it only when there was little time left, so any counterclaim couldn't have the time to processed properly. Scum would also have known at this point that there was no miller, hence some more odds in their favour. WoS claimed the only thing left, leaving us with all blues in the game, which is highly improbable. I feel gumshoe's claim was legit cause of timing (he didn't fear getting cc'd) and cause I didn't feel he was mostly townie in general, except I found him odd at one point for proposing a scum team theory I didn't share and found unlikely. This is obviously something that looks almost paranoid, 3 scum with 3 fakeclaims. But I'm confident that lynching marv ALL of their play will fall apart, cause I'm confident that he won't flip miller, making Lazer's cop claim quite more suspicious, and WoS claim is suspicious in itself. The guy claims to have shot marv, I have yet to see him reflecting that intention during N1. There is absolutely NOTHING in his filter that points towards him wanting to shoot marv. Just follow me, lynch marv, and win the game. I already delayed scum victory by being so supertownie that scum shot me. You owe me this much. These guys aren't afraid of bussing each other, they know the massclaim puts them into a bad spot, and only looking at their play. Here are Rayn's reasons to remind you, the guy who got shot before the claimed cop and the claimed miller who is usually a good townie. On July 03 2013 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look at my filter for evidence: marv is mafia. - says he doubts Lazer's claim. Makes no sense as miller when everyone has posted after that. - says later on he now thinks Lazer is legit cop because of no cc, but in the same post says he would not cc Lazer to find out his scumbuddies. Earlier on in N1 when everyone had posted after Lazer's claim did not trust him. - his D1 voting behaviour i pointed out - sceptical towards massclaim, which would be good for town. USE MY PLAN ON D2 START! - has not questioned Vivax nor answered me about this: Lazer is mafia. - His whole D1 besides a couple of his first comments, particularly his stance of Vayne and what he said about it on N1, rofl - HC-defends marv for no reason (him being legit cop does not make marv town) - really shitty answers to me, for example straight out lying about him knowing the deadline was +1 hours - completely disappearing when i try to set up a convo between him/WoS, as he had nothing more to argue - pointing out "hilarious stuff", which i could not know as i assumed scum had 1 KP. OF COURSE THAT FUCKING CHANGES MY POINT OF VIEW! Fuba is mafia. - Things from D1 that many people have pointed out. - Sudden change of reads in "marv/Lazer = both scum", see his 2 posts about it - general absence and his "hit-and-run" posts all over the game. Everyone else is more or less town to me, except WoS/Solstice who are null. Rest in order (town -> less town): JarJar(claim+timing,otherwise kinda useless), gumshoe(claim,step up more please), Vivax(towniest motherfucker in thread who has not claimed!!!!), Stutters, Oats. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ On July 03 2013 07:30 Vivax wrote: Well yeah like I said, your argument is that there is no one counterclaiming Lazer yet, or within the hour after his claim. I'd like to talk more about your reasons. I mean, you read through the whole game as far as I saw, but you didn't work all that out, yet Rayne presented you with the reasons for having Lazer as scumread, and you skip over the reasons and judge two filters by the amount of trying. I realize this is accusatory, but I don't see how someone points you to something being scummy and you say you didn't have time to work it out, but one guy posts more than the other and hence is less scummy. Even afterwards you had plenty of time to comment on the Lazer stuff. Go look at the time of these posts to get into the context please, this was at the time when me and Rayne were gunning marv, before we got shot. On July 03 2013 07:50 Vivax wrote: Wtf dude. You were still in time to talk about Lazer. We are talking about Lazer all the fucking time. You defend his claim. You say we put words in your mouth when we say you think he's town. You don't think "Oh well these guys might actually be right I'll go read him and give my opinion on him". You become all pissy and defensive, and still show zero doubt about and information gathering on lazer, which is scummy regardless of his alignment. On July 03 2013 07:52 Vivax wrote: Like, all you're doing is like from a viewpoint where you're sure that you're right about what you say. But you don't even have a definite opinion on Lazer you could be right about. On July 03 2013 08:40 Vivax wrote: Put marv before gumshoe. The guy isn't pushing any reads. Only defending himself, talking about how his claim would be too risky, and hating. He said himself he fakeclaimed miller in another game. He says the claim isn't risky although he can still outplay the other miller if it comes to it. Look at how he pushes the wagons D1. He was pretty much throwing shit everywhere (WoS, Vayne, fuba) except on Lazer and see what sticks. He said Lazer looked like he was trying, but ignored Rayn saying that Lazer didn't push his scumread Vayne all day long. He just finished reading the thread and showed zero doubt. Even cockiness has a limit. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ | ||
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On July 03 2013 22:19 Lazermonkey wrote: Vivax, I don't hear a single argument for me being scum that I haven't answered yet. Do you not agree with my answers? If so, then show why. Well, I remember exactly how you skipped on my arguments to push for Vayne together with marv @ deadline: On July 02 2013 03:39 Vivax wrote: Here's a summary of Lazer's play from my perspective: First of all, I noticed that Lazer called his scumread Vayne a lynch bait, WoS called him out for it. Lazer said he can't be scum for that cause scum wouldn't call their targets lynch bait. That kinda gives me the impression that the two can't be scum together cause Lazer's answer was pretty defensive, but it's not to be taken for granted: + Show Spoiler + I don't get how the sentences are contradicting each other : /. And its not really that much of WIFOM. If I am scum, couldn't I just say "hey, these posts by Vayne probably means he is scum" and then just push for his lynch, not giving a fuck? Instead I said "hey, these posts by Vayne are suspcious, but if he usually plays like this then its not that big of a scum tell". And no, I'm obviously not giving him auto-town status just because he is a lynch bait, that would be retarded Lol. But there is a reason lynch baits are lynch baits. They get lynched. Lazer starts with having stutters as scumread. Goes on to call Vayne scummy. Proceeds to write some stuff up against Oats (and gets mad when attacked) "Checks this JarJar dude" after gumshoe posts his case. Makes a push out of it. Until this point, he doesn't write more about his former scumreads. Afterwards claims he still has Vayne as scumread and would lynch him too. Says I give him bad vibes for tunnelling. His read on WoS goes from slightly scummy to neutral. He didn't communicate his thought process on the guy, he only talks about him when asked. No pushes except for JarJar. No questioning his scumreads. Quote collection, chronologic: And this is the last, go read his filter thx lol. | ||
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This post formally screams for my theory to be correct: On July 03 2013 17:27 Lazermonkey wrote: Hi everyone, didn't get RBed last night (checked marv) interestingly enough. First I thought it wasn't very indicative of anything, I don't have to get RBed/ killed untill N2. But WoS's claim changes alot of stuff. First off, its really funky that scum would RNG their RB on WoS, sure stuff like that happends but its not really helping WoS in any way. But what I really find interesting is, now that we "have" both a cop and a vigi with a shot AND are not at MYLO today, even if vigi hits townie, scum cannot prevent both of these at the same time with a single roleblock, which means scum will either have to shoot me (which is kinda good, given so many are suspicious of me now, Lol : D) or they'll have to let WoS take his shot and risk it hitting scum. So really, not me nor WoS should get lynched today. We will be able to do stuff with night action if we are both town and if we are scum you can just kill us later. WoS has to claim a roleblock for his claim to be swallowed, and Lazer has to help him and says the roleblock doesn't help WoS in any way (why not?) , after saying it's not indicative of anything and that WoS claim changes a lot of stuff (how?). He even assumes scum RNGd the roleblock (why?), not for a moment does he suspect that WoS could be scum, or that he has been roleblocked by a survivor and that scum has no roleblocker. I'll tell you why, cause he knows WoS didn't get roleblocked, and scum has no roleblocker, and if WoS didn't have to claim vigi, Lazer could have claimed the roleblock. It's just convenient that Lazer comes into the thread after WoS has already posted his shit. | ||
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On July 03 2013 22:42 JarJarDrinks wrote: Yeah, I just can't buy into roleclaimgate™ . Just seems too crazy for a # of reasons. I'm sure rayn is cursing @ me from the obs deck but sorry I just can't buy into it. So I'm gonna mark marv and lazr down as legit for now. WoS on the other hand has got to be scum. - Last blue to claim. - Claims roleblock when I can't see any reason for hitler to have targetted him. - Claims to have shot @ marv which as has been pointed out seemed unlikely for him to do. - Plus @ the deadline yesterday the votes seemed to want to go anyone but him. Not sure who's the better lynch between fuba and WoS. Marv and Lazer aren't legit at all. If we lynch someone today who isn't marv, it's gonna be WoS. I'm sure as hell not skipping on reducing scum KP today, lynching the survivor doesn't help town in any way. I'm not even sure if town loses if the survivor wins lol. He wins with the winning fraction and could have possible uses as medic, that would be an interesting question to be resolved. | ||
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On July 03 2013 22:49 Lazermonkey wrote: Are you really this immune to logic? first the milller thing and now this. The only resonable alternative to WoS being scum is that scum RNGed their RB on him, right? I shouldn't have to explain this to you like you are 3 years old, because you are not... And you dismiss that WoS claims the roleblock to protect his claim cause? | ||
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I'll hate you forever if you screw this up. And Rayn will hate you even more. Use some fucking logic man, Marv, a strong town player, is alive after claiming miller, and Lazer, the cop, gets neither roleblocked nor killed. The two guys pushing them, me and Rayn, get shot. What do you think was scum thinking when they chose their targets? Renounce on killing two claim-confirmed "townies" to kill two other plyers who are supposedly on the wrong track? We don't lynch outside of WoS/marv/Lazer today, I hope we can agree on this. | ||
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On July 03 2013 22:55 Oatsmaster wrote: I think fuba is more likely scum than survivor. Marv thoughts? The reason why WoS couldve claimed at daybreak is because scum already knew all the blue roles. Lazer claimed Cop Gum claimed vengeful 1 missing kp. And only 1 kp. so therefore the remaining role is Vig. This is from info from the day post. Stop using that to justify the lynch. Scum KP is factional. #/2 rounded up. Fucks sake read the thread. I'm seriously starting to get pissed, I'll go do something useful rather than arguing with meatheads. | ||
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Nice pointing it out. Marv can only claim that WoS had real intention to shoot marv if he thinks WoS is town. He says WoS bad = WoS scum. He doesn't argue from a point of view where he assumes the shot is fake. Why would scum WoS claim that he shot marv in the first place? Marv has to explain that first of all. | ||
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On July 03 2013 23:05 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont know marv, you couldve included the word 'claim' in there. Also, why as scum would he fakeclaim such a terrible shot? I'll tell you, cause it's a way of distancing himself. WoS doesn't show anywhere reasons to want to kill marv. The day after he votes Lazer. I already wrote this ffs. You also ask me for my reasons to lynch WoS, they are in my filter, both in D1 and in this day. So please, read bro. | ||
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On July 03 2013 23:07 marvellosity wrote: Only once you've explained what I keep pointing out to you. Except you can't, because it would involve me being a completely retarded scumplayer. You don't want to explain why your scumread is scum? Do you need incentives from me to push your scumread? | ||
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That is my answer. | ||
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On July 03 2013 23:23 Oatsmaster wrote: Vivax, is it lylo/mylo? Thanks to me I would dare say that it's not mylo. Rayn said it'd be mylo with 2 NKs tonight. I didn't do the numbers and I'm too lazy frankly. Just use your logic man. There must be scum among the blues. No Vanilla has been counterclaimed. 6 vanilla names 1 miller 1 Landa 4 blue names 8 townies. 1 survivor. 3 scum. 6 townies can have vanilla names. Scum NEEDS to fakeclaim blues or the massclaim outs them. If marv was aware of that, the claim was a risk he had to take. That means that with no interferences among the vanillas so far, scum HAS fakeclaimed up to 3 blues and/or miller, holy shit. The scummiest claims are marv, Lazer and WoS. Their interactions tell it all. I don't think you are scum despite being the last vanilla name to claim. That means the HAS to be scum among the blues. They are here, in the thread, disrupting shit and not pushing their reads like you'd expect townies to. | ||
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I'm right, trust me. | ||
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On July 03 2013 23:34 Oatsmaster wrote: tell me Vivax, what do you think the chances are that there is only 1 town blue role? Well with 6 vanilla names and 4 blue names + 1 miller name, 2 townies have to have either 1 blue and a miller 2 blues 2 millers Leaves you with 3 scum who have to fakeclaim their name either way. I think all the claimed vanilla names are legit, the guys before you weren't afraid to claim them, and you don't look like scum. That's why I think all of scum claimed blues and/or miller. Gumshoe's claim looks legit to me and I don't think he's scum. Leaves me with WoS, marv and Lazer. By play and by setup. | ||
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On July 03 2013 23:39 Oatsmaster wrote: JJD so cute. Vivax shot his scummembers for towncred TWICE No. When I shot Toad, it was cause we gave up. I gave up the same day I took the cred for the shot, and we agreed on it in the chat. The other time, it was with Dandel's smurf. He asked me to shoot him, and I had fakeclaimed vigi so I had to shoot someone, so I shot scum. You're telling me I was in need to sacrifice a KP and risk getting cc'd when I was in no danger of lynch at all? | ||
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But those were extraordinary circumstances. It doesn't matter shit talking about this cause Lazer Wos and marv are scum. By some extremely remote chance on of them isn't and it's actually gumshoe in place of one. | ||
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On July 03 2013 23:45 JarJarDrinks wrote: So you want to risk the game on todays lynch? You were just asking if we should vote no lynch because we're @ mylo. This is essentially doing the same thing but w/ a much bigger upside. Dude. If we lynch scum we bring KP down to 1. Do you think one of the vanilla names fakeclaimed? If you don't, then LAZER AND WOS HAVE TO BE SCUM. That is 100 % sure. If you think I'm scum, then marv and gumshoe are town. If you think marv and me are town, then gumshoe is scum. If you think gumshoe and me are town, then marv is scum. | ||
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On July 03 2013 23:48 Oatsmaster wrote: Killing fuba is worse than no lynching IMO. I think gumshoe is too infuriating to be scum. So yeah WoS is scum. Why not marv, he has to be scum too if you think me and gum are town. Seriously lynch him first. The guy is the scum who shits up the thread the most. | ||
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On July 03 2013 23:51 JarJarDrinks wrote: And if we lynch town, we lose. And if you lynch survivor, you lose a guy who can turn the tides for town with his JK. Doesn't matter for him who he wins with, he's a potential medic. We need his compliance. | ||
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He only got shot N1, pushing Lazer and marv as scumreads with the other dead townie. | ||
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You look at the wrong places. The setup, the claims, the night actions, the play. I don't understand at all how it's so hard to figure out that these dudes are scum. | ||
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Does it seem legit when he has to know that there has to be scum among the other claimers? He should have gumshoe and Lazer as scumreads. If he doesn't, he should tell us which vanilla name claims look suspicious to him. He's doing nothing of that, no analysis, only staying o nthe front page shitting up the thread. | ||
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On July 04 2013 01:07 Lazermonkey wrote: And even then, why not claim right away D1? Cause he'd be the guaranteed not-town lynch. That's pretty much a nobrainer. | ||
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Marv: "WoS is scum cause shooting me is so bad he can't be town." WoS: "Sup I only told you a lot of bullshit" Marv: "Oh nice well guess I can believe that from you let's go for fuba" | ||
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WoS is his fucking scumbuddy | ||
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He agrees with you on claiming survivor being terrible for survivor??? | ||
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See you in fucking postgame. If you need to find scum, read my posts and Rayn's, the guys who scum chose to shot. Holy shit. | ||
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Cop not roleblocked. I'm the only guy pushing marv and Lazer. Where is scum agreeing with my theory if they did that shit to frame them? | ||
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On July 04 2013 08:54 WaveofShadow wrote: So sure of yourself. That's pretty cute. Anyway 2 more hours. I don't actually give a shit about what happens to me at this point as I've already assumed that I've lost. Maybe the actual thinking townies don't want the game lost for them as well. If you don't give a shit then go away. No one requests your presence. Only your scalp and a swastika in your forehead | ||
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##Vote WoS | ||
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On July 04 2013 18:52 marvellosity wrote: thx for your contributions lately Vivax, they've been real eye-openers x Well sorry I don't have the time to exchange inflammatory posts with assholes | ||
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See the time of fuba's claim? See the first posts from WoS since that happened? Is he communicating in any way that he's SURE that fuba must be scum cause of the alleged survivor fakeclaim? No, cause WoS made up the whole fucking story. He's scum. On July 03 2013 10:54 WaveofShadow wrote: I'll be back later on after my guy's first nightfeed. Oats for the record I think your original idea made the most sense but now I don't know what to do about the hole gumshoe has climbed into. We should at least start looking into which of the greens are the most scummy and then we can decide later on if it makes more sense to lynch blue or green. (It might make more sense to lynch blue due to simple probability but as you said it might work itself out through N2 actions so I'm not sure.) On July 03 2013 17:19 mkfuba07 wrote: Sorry for getting back so late, but it looks like a lot of you figured out my role already. I'm Hans Landa - German Survivor Jailkeeper. No jail last night, since it really didn't look like I was going to be NK'd, and after that shitstorm with marv/rayn/lazer/etc there were likely better vigi shots. If WoS is telling the truth, then it looks like scum has a roleblocker and saw him as possibly blue. If he's lying, then... he's scum. To make up for the Vayne lynch a bit (that came way too close for me :S), I'll offer that I, at least, didn't get a fake claim. It feels like if scum had been given fake claims, then I would have gotten one, since this setup makes massclaims really likely, and it feels like it's gonna be really hard to walk that line between town and scum. Oh yeah, marv, I thought I responded to your questions in my nested post. You asked what the contradictions were, and I answered it, and you asked what the "possibly scummy but sometimes townie" elements of stutters' filter were, and I answered that too. Lemme know if there's something else I missed. And if you could actually comment on what I wrote, that'd be great, instead of doing what everyone apparently does with my posts and skimming it, saying nothing, and pulling it out when they're strarving for scumreads. Also, though I didn't have time or necessarily the inclination to comment on it before, I'm pretty reasonably convinced you're town. Rayn's later posts about you were giving me a similar feeling to the post by oats I brought up earlier regarding rayn himself. There was an incredible amount of confirmation bias going on that even I could see, and I agreed with him that in that situation it was scummy for you to be suspicious of lazer. I also think your responses were in line with townie marv. I can't explain away the main reason for the scumread, since I still think the logic is for the most part sound, but with the clusterfuck of claims this thread's become at the moment, it's hard to analyze anything clearly. It *is* clear, however, that there's something fishy going on with the claims, though I cba to find out what it is at the moment. I haven't slept in almost 48 hours, my brain is slowing to the speed of a snail, and I almost passed out On July 04 2013 01:32 WaveofShadow wrote: Phoneposting atm awww nobody wants to react to my posting makes me sad Town: Im dead anyway so I honestly couldnt care less if you guys want to hand the game to scum but id seriously consider hearing me out when the time comes scumteam: you forced me into this when I was trying to be all nice to you. i suppose you didnt have a choice considering fuba had to claim late and might have been lynched today especially if he took the miller claim but now you can be damn sure ill push for it. that is of course unless town doesnt care about what i have to say in which case the games is yours gentlmen On July 04 2013 01:37 WaveofShadow wrote: so nice not to have to lie anymore. hell i didnt even lie this much when i was scum On July 04 2013 01:37 WaveofShadow wrote: so nice not to have to lie anymore. hell i didnt even lie this much when i was scum This is his actual vote explanation, it's not HEY GUYS FUBA IS SCUM, it's "well, I'll simply vote the other lynch option". On July 04 2013 06:13 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and I suppose while we're at it, a lady does need to stay alive, too. ##Unvote ##Vote: fuba dooba | ||
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I'm the survivor. I don't give a shit about hunting scum, Wrong, you need to stay alive, and scumhunting helps you at that when you claim your role to town. Pointing to fuba being scum immediately would have been your chance to show some good will and not get lynched when counterclaiming. With your posts not showing that, you show lack of the mindset of someone knowing that someone fakeclaimed. You should have known that whoever gets lynched first, the other would have been proven a liar. You didn't act according to that knowledge. | ||
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On July 05 2013 01:12 Oatsmaster wrote: well Vivax, fuba isnt doing the WoS is scum thing either. Fuba didn't know if WoS was fakeclaiming, whether he's lying or not. | ||
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My bet is placed. | ||
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If you're survivor and the guy before you fakeclaims vigi, you don't know if he's vigi or scum. But if you're survivor and the guy fakeclaims survivor, you know he's scum. | ||
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On July 05 2013 01:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok let me get this straight. WoS claims survivor and doesnt call Fuba scum and therefore WoS is scum. Fuba claims survivor and doesnt call WoS scum and therefore WoS is scum. How does this make ANY SENSE Vivax? Who cares. I didn't see the part WoS wrote anyway, and I already posted all I had to post to bring my point across. Tell me why you think which one of them is more likely if you want. | ||
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On July 05 2013 01:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Apparently you cared. If you dont wanna play, then dont. Question: Why would scumfuba say he got no fakeclaims? Scum say things for a purpose. It's a little thing, but it's one of those little things that makes me confident he isn't scum. I see it as a real survivor laying out all cards he has left in the hand. Marv and Wos instead are fueling the theory that scum knew the setup and hence got fakeclaims, so they can sway the lynch from WoS. | ||
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On July 05 2013 00:16 marvellosity wrote: Lying isn't the same as lying about what hosts told you. In my opinion at least. I've been searching for "dick" in your filter but it keeps highlighting your name | ||
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I don't have enough confidence into my abilities to convince this town. And I'm too lazy to try and prove otherwise to myself. Hence I'm just emoing. If you guys don't elaborate the game the same way I do, then it would simply take too much effort to let you take that perspective, and it's not even guaranteed that you would read it, or understand it. It's pretty simple setup-wise, and with NK-analysis. You are only looking at this shit between WoS and Fuba. | ||
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It will be funny after this night when cop doesn't get roleblocked or killed though (according to my theory), with my theory, all he can effectively do is confirm townies with his role, or Landa. And marv the supertownie millerclaimer will stay alive too. And what WoS is going to do : He needs to guarantee us that he won't roleblock the cop. I wish you much fun making plans in your hidden pits, scum. This night might give you trouble. Rayn might have hit 3 /3 before dying. | ||
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On July 05 2013 07:33 marvellosity wrote: Your theory is already debunked because fuba wasn't one of your 3 and he just flipped. Gonna start playing yet, Vivax? Why did you bus him though. Gotta take a better look at it. Lazer + marv is still entirely possible. | ||
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On July 05 2013 07:48 WaveofShadow wrote: See here's the thing. I feel like I should somehow be giving scum a sporting chance since they just took such a hit. (Even though it was entirely their own fault.) But my problem is I don't know how scum wants me to help them! So I guess I can't really do anything unless they let me know what to do somehow. You know for a guy who was ranting and raving about how I was scum Vivax, I'm surprised you'd be willing to trust me even if I DID guarantee you something. I'll trust you if you roleblock someone tonight. The only sporting chance you can give scum is to roleblock the DT. Scum Lazer can claim RB "Sorry bro no check". If he's town then you did scum a favour. We should ask him what he thinks of it hehehe... The thing is, whatever you do, you will have to conceal your real intentions. Let's assume for a moment you will jail me and stop the next attempted shot from scum. Scum will shoot you if they know you do that. Needless to say that if you help scum and not town, you'll be on the lynching list tomorrow. | ||
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Situation: Lynch candidates Lazer Fuba WoS Marv comes in and proposes Vayne, the mislynch, claiming to be unsure on the others, yet still not digging further into them when deadline is "extended". On July 02 2013 05:44 marvellosity wrote: Not sure about fuba and Lazer is trying too hard. Vayne doesn't care about the game and Vayne is always at the forefront of town when he's town (and much less so as scum). I understand from something in his filter that he was away at some point, but having returned he's just given lists of people he's happy to lynch into and nothing else of substance. His standing in town is precisely the opposite of what I expect from town-Vayne and much more what I'd expect from scum-Vayne. I can't point to anything in his filter that I found townie, in addition I already pointed out soemthing that I think flies totally in the face of his town MO. | ||
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On July 02 2013 05:41 marvellosity wrote: fuba, you need to justify your scumreads to me because your posting is extremely dense and more obfuscating than i usually find it. I'd think that such a post implies marv finding something suspicious, but afterwards, he doesn't pursue anything of that sort, or look for examples why fuba could be scum. He picks Vayne and pulls it through, effectively booting out the other two options which probably were his scumbuddies. On July 02 2013 05:58 marvellosity wrote: Just sheep me and I can deal with the flak whatever the flip is. Also I'll be able to read fuba tomorrow much better than Vayne xDDD | ||
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You just lynched someone who proves you wrong, he got partially outed cause he lakced a fakeclaim. Also I think there is no Hitler and Lazer + marv are fakeclaims, hence why I say that the only source of roleblocks is WoS. But you'll see for yourself when cop and miller are still alive. We'll see. | ||
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Maybe look at his scumgames in his profile. Just to get an idea of how often he gets caught. | ||
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On July 06 2013 03:03 Lazermonkey wrote: I really hope you get shot tonight. It would make this game so much easier for everyone! I agree. I'm totally useless and totally not worth a shot. | ||
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On July 06 2013 03:52 Lazermonkey wrote: Vivax, am I understanding it correctly when I say that me and marv still is your top 2 scum reads? I just need to see what happens tonight. You should actually claim and discuss your check target. Unless you can argue that there is a scum roleblocker. But there isn't and hence cop + miller + survivor become unlikely without scum able to do anything.. Else explain why u haven't been roleblocked N1 after claiming. You and marv wouldn't be able to survive in a better town. | ||
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Actually it makes sense for you to keep saying WoS is scum so you already have the semi-confirmed survivor to claim your fake check on. | ||
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On July 06 2013 04:42 marvellosity wrote: you literally have zero basis to assert this. There was no N1 roleblock. There you have ur basis. Doesn't cost scum anything to RB the cop. | ||
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Wow, your questions become stupider by the minute. | ||
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On July 06 2013 04:50 marvellosity wrote: Answer the question. How do you know they didn't roleblock Lazer? Cause you're stupid | ||
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On July 06 2013 04:51 marvellosity wrote: Excellent. Why don't you go play with your toys Vivax and stop bothering the grownups if you can't answer simple questions. Because you can't answer it, can you? No, you can't. I dare you to prove me wrong. Else what. You don't have the balls to lead lynches as scum. | ||
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Well derp derp, I only remembered Lazer saying he didn't get roleblocked. Not that it matters. | ||
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I know for a fact the cop didn't roleblock. I almost argued myself out just cause host sai there is no RB notification. Still means Lazer didn't get roleblocked. So gtfo marv | ||
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On July 06 2013 04:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh I see. So because cop didn't get RBed there must be no RB. NOW I UNDERSTAND Yeah I'm sure scum randomed some guy hoping it was a vig that would shoot exactly one of them that night, over roleblocking the guaranteed cop. You're probably playing pro-scum anyway so I don't even need to try convincing you of anything. | ||
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On July 06 2013 05:00 marvellosity wrote: Vivax, you really don't think if Lazer was mafia he'd claim being roleblocked? No, cause WoS claimed roleblocked vigi, and fuba claimed survivor not using the roleblock, hence Lazer had to claim no RB to protect fuba's claim. Likely scum didn't know of the RB notification thing cause else fuba could have easily claimed a RB. He probably thought he couldn't fakeclaim it. Even if scum were informed that there's no notification, they knew WoS' claim was fake, and if fuba had claimed a roleblock on Lazer, then well, it'd have been scummy for Lazer not to push fuba, plus, fuba would have done something anti-town in the eyes of town, lowering his survival chances. | ||
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Pretty much invalid now. But I'll stick to NK and the posted play analysis in lack of that. | ||
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Marv is scum. ##Vote marvellosity | ||
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Check all his posts about fuba up until the point where WoS claims. Marv clearly showed interest into him, tried to interact with him as much as possible, and in the "final" post he says he's really suspicious of fuba, but during all this time, he never tries to push for his lynch or persuade others on why he might be scum. What matters though, is that once WoS claims the fake vig shot, Marv drops all he said last about fuba being suspicious and votes WoS after saying he laid in bed stoned and thought that a shot from WoS is so retarded it must come from scum. I didn't read properly the part where he switches to fuba yet, but I recall him saying that gumshoe convinced him, which is kinda weird since marv should have been more suspicious of fuba from the start imo. It'd be nice if you could look it up and give me your opinion on it. | ||
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On July 06 2013 18:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey guys, lets lynch the miller who claimed in the game that almost surely has a miller. Cute Vivax. WoS is really retarded and gumshoe had awesome points. Go read the points. Well you're right. Don't see why marv would have pushed Vayne when lazer was up for lynch. Rime 2 leave the tunnel | ||
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Given the announcement of that rule we should kill the survivor. Gives us 3 extra days to figure out other scum. ##Unvote ##Vote WaveofShadow Also, we won't have to speculate whether he was scum or not anymore. | ||
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On July 08 2013 07:01 marvellosity wrote: yeah but prolonging the game is an unattractive proposition with how you're playing, for example. I didn't say I would keep playing like this. It's a temporary solution. | ||
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On July 08 2013 07:27 gumshoe wrote: Yeah I knew I tunneled too hard on Jar Jar, the dude did not make it easy though. So I'm assuming scum team is SOL, Oats. Or it's me WOS or whatever, who knows now. Point is, if survivor helps us tomorrow, it's gg for him, he gets shot the following night and Landa doesn't strike me as the martyr type. With two scum left he cant run the risk. That means Jar Jar was right. We have to vote WOS. Because no other lynch is possible at this point. Marv is the scumteam. Open your eyes MAAN | ||
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They will contact you, WoS. Wait and watch. | ||
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Listen to Vivax next time newbs | ||
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"Hey dude we can lynch soemone who is guaranteed not town but let's lynch the guy we aren't sure about cause then derpderp." | ||
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I prefer sticking to my early read. S0lstice doesn't give a fuck about the game. Marv is scum cause I say so. | ||
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If he isn't then we didn't lose yet. That's why we lynch him. | ||
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On July 09 2013 03:01 s0Lstice wrote: I do give a fuck. I hate the 'this person is scum b/c process of elimination' phase of the game 4 pages of filter. Your effort is amazing. Oh yeah right you're busy, so am I every time I play scum. | ||
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On July 09 2013 08:14 gumshoe wrote: Like Vivax level awful reads. JarJar says hi Better awful reads than stupid decisions | ||
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fakeclaims for scum no notifications for actions factional KP no town medic/JK cop only useful after N2 This setup was scum-favored. Nevertheless, it was doable after they lost a KP and a scum lynch on D2. Just had to lynch WoS and take advantage of the restricted options. | ||
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It wasn't instant majority lynch. There was a countdown in the daypost. No way I could convince WoS of being scum. I told Oats that he really improved his D1 play when he said that he (undefined) should have claimed scum earlier. Best thing would have been if two townies fakeclaimed scum, Oats had the chance. How did my vote matter, it was all about convincing WoS on who was scum and persuade him to join them. | ||
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On July 09 2013 23:53 VayneAuthority wrote: Not an 100% victory cuz they still had to find scum, but if you just voted when you first came into the thread for s0lstice then he would have reached 3 votes first and would have been lynched. And where did iGrok change the voting mode to instant majority??? It was plurality all the way. | ||
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Welp sorry, didn't spend enough time thinking about the game properly since Lazer's death pretty much. | ||
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On July 10 2013 00:05 marvellosity wrote: Vivax I know you have it in for me and that's fine, but you have to find a way to listen to basic logic and reading the game if I'm in a game with you :/ I was obviously really townie after day 2, the fact you were pushing me after that was mindblowing. You're not bad at all if you're thinking, but for whatever reason you just decided to stop thinking Yeah I stopped thinking about the game after Lazer's death. I was rather sure you weren't scum afterwards but only pushed you for funzies even after I mentioned a reason for why you're unlikely scum. I pretty much started playing like an asshole. I don't want to apologize for that cause it was a choice I made but I apologize for the plurality mistake cause it was really stupid. | ||
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