Hi guys.

What we know is that marv must come back guilty in any case.
We don't know if he's town or not.

Hence, why so trustful, Rayn?
In my own experience as scum I hardly attack such claims cause they seem so strong if a townie makes them.

Bist du Nazi-Abschaum, Junge?

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 22:12 GMT

#85

It's possible I guess. I don't think it's worth speculating about until another miller claims.

Lazermonkey's vote on WoS gives me a townie feeling. Any differing opinions? Do you agree?Yes? Why?

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 22:19 GMT

#90

On June 30 2013 07:12 Lazermonkey wrote:
Marv, which game were you fake claiming miller?

I think it was Just another mini normal mafia or Normal mini mafia II, he got replaced by yamato.

Is this a relevant question in your opinion?

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 22:29 GMT

#96

Rayn pretty much townie too.

Stutters's post that looks bad could be the "know something we don't?" thing. How is scum supposed to know anything about the amount of millers in the game? They can't roll them lol.

I don't see why WoS should be scum for writing in French though.

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 22:38 GMT

#100

Addendum to the stutters thing: Looks like a loaded question scum likes to ask earlygame. I don't really see how one would suspect Rayn to be scum for having "extra info" about miller when scum doesn't get any extra info in that regard either. Doesn't seem like the approach a townie would take in that case even if he genuinely believed that.

Ecco un voto per esprimere la mia discordanza e il mio sospetto

##Vote stutters

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 22:42 GMT

#101

On June 30 2013 07:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also if you are town, why would you not google translate WoS' posts?

Laziness, also quite confident in understanding some french without a translation.

Hence, didn't realize he wrote that.

I recall another guy writing something similar though. A guy I never played with. Why don't you call him out?

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 22:45 GMT

#102

Marv so silent.

Whassup marv.

That seems unusual.

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 22:59 GMT

#105

Well ok. I reviewed things a little.

We have 2 guys saying their activity will be shit on D1 (marv and the new guy)

Then we have WoS say:
I'm not really going to be around until late tonight, so no

(as reply to "Hey you got anything to say?")

So yeah, kinda asshole answer. But also kinda careless. I'd treat it as null, and it's not really comparable to the announcement that the whole of D1 will be of low activity.

I also realized I partially parroted Rayn's reasons for stutter's posts looking bad. Apologies I'm a little drunk coz of my weekend feast and wrote pretty spontaneously. Going to bed now tho. See you sober.

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 23:06 GMT

#107

On June 30 2013 08:02 Lazermonkey wrote:
I can't seem to find the game where Marv fake claims miller, it makes me sad. Am I modconfirmed retard now?

Marv pls

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394344

It was IV not II -.-

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 23:26 GMT

#110

On June 30 2013 08:18 Lazermonkey wrote:
I guess that means Marv does have the balls required to pull off such move as scum.

From that game:

On January 26 2013 09:30 marvellosity wrote:
Vivax, my balls are truly enormous.

To explain what I misread, I misread the "not" self-aware millers and I thought he was asking self-aware millers to claim after I'd claimed.

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 29 2013 23:52 GMT

#113

Vivax, why a sudden change of mind, that is really not a change of mind? What exactly is your stance on stutters/wos?

There is no change of mind. I just noticed afterwards that one of the reasons I mentioned for stutters being scummy was a reason you already had mentioned earlier.

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 30 2013 10:12 GMT

#189

GUYS GUYS.

Alright, first of all, I'm still at page 9 while writing this. But I thought about all of this miller thing.

First : It's good that we have that claim. Parity cop can simply check marv and prime his check for the following nights.
Second: WHY did marv not claim miller along with a name? That is actually pretty scummy. Millers have names in this game, and two possibly different ones.

For a scum fakeclaiming it makes sense to withhold your name cause you don't know if there's another miller.
If you fakeclaim with name, you are at risk of getting counterclaimed for having the same name.

And overall: Why doesn't marv post his full miller PM at once? He should still do that and if he can't we lynch him. If he does we have to consider that it can come from the host. But if iGrok doesn't give one to him he can't and we lynch him. Ezpz.

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 30 2013 10:32 GMT

#192

On June 30 2013 19:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah everyone has posted, marv can post the role PM.

Oats you're being dumb. I do not buddy strong town players as scum.

And why should he not post it immediately and only after everyone has posted?

That he didn't post it immediately is scummy in itself.

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 30 2013 10:43 GMT

#195

On June 30 2013 19:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
well marv hasnt posted since the start of the game.

What do you think of Rayn?

His efforts and perseverance in contributing looks townie. But his trust into marv's claim is suspicious, even when he is presented with evidence of marv fakeclaiming miller in another game.

He tries to rationalize his trust in this post:

On June 30 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is how i see it:
marv claimed before iGrok announced the cop is in fact a parity cop. In case the cop was normal and as there is no GF, it's fair that there is one miller. Two millers make the game insanely hard for a cop, and with two miller claims town might run in circles finding which of the millers is "mafia".As for parity cop, having two millers ease up the game much. If the parity cop is stupid enough to not check marv on N1, they still can check the other miller claim on N2 (as if marv is town he will die on N1) and use that to confirm his earlier and future checks.

If there is no cop there is no point in having millers. One might be okay in the sense that it fucks with the town, but not too much. Two millers and no cop is basically impossible.

marv would not claim miller in either scenario because there is no need to.
So that's why i think marv is town and there is exactly 1 miller.

I agree that Lazer is probably town. His opening post was careless and i don't think he would have done that as scum. His vote on WoS is good as WoS is probably scum. :D

What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad.

Now, it looks like a shitty explanation.
Rayn writes lengthy stuff about marv claiming before parity cop is revealed, but it doesn't tell anything about marv, except that he was expecting normal cops.

Since this is Rayn rationalizing his townread, and mentioning this stuff about miller and cop has no effect on that townread and should rather weaken it, cause Rayn himself mentions that millers are helpful with parity cops and marv would rather not fakeclaim with parity cops present, this explanation looks forced and not very genuine.

Like, the bolded part is literally the whole explanation Rayn offers for marv not being scum. "Because there is no need to".
In what scenarios? Scenarios with parity cop and scenario with no cop. Well, he said himself marv claimed before parity cop announcement, and marv can't know if there's a cop.

Upon analyzing this post I have this Deutsch feeling about rayn.

##Unvote
##Vote Rayn

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 30 2013 10:50 GMT

#198

Oh I see now. Rayn claims that marv would not fakeclaim miller in a game with a possible cop cause there would only be one miller with standard cop. But with parity cop, the game becomes easier with two millers and it's rather possible there are two?

That's daring setup speculation, and this setup is everything but standard. Overall I feel Rayn is giving marv too easy credit for that claim and then rationalizing it uber hard afterwards when I gun him for it.

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 30 2013 10:54 GMT

#201

On June 30 2013 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself:
Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so?

If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv.

Lazer has been asking for marv's scumgame with fakeclaim all the time. I'd expect you to have looked up the link I posted, but given your suspicious hard-on for defending marv it doesn't surprise me you didn't do that.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394344&currentpage=12#222

17 minutes into the game, is that early enough?

Vivax

21978 Posts

June 30 2013 11:09 GMT

#206

On June 30 2013 20:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why doesn't either of you answer the question what would he gain by claiming miller?

The thing you are trying to give him: Confirmed town status.

At the very least it should have raised some doubt in you when it became obvious that marv could have posted name + role PM.

Instead you wrote this:

On June 30 2013 19:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah everyone has posted, marv can post the role PM.

Oats you're being dumb. I do not buddy strong town players as scum.

So please answer me this:

And why should he not post it immediately and only after everyone has posted?