EPT##support: Vivax
@FirmTofu+ Show Spoiler +
WHY get yourself modkilled. D:
Can't believe I thought you were scum again...
gg man.
Can't believe I thought you were scum again...
gg man.
[N] Sicilian Mafia Style - Page 41
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
##support: Vivax @FirmTofu+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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kholly
United States74 Posts
Everyone I have spoken to was sad. Circles... they die when connected to me. In case you guys don't like me: + Show Spoiler + From: FirmTofu [ 706 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: My Death Date: 7/20/13 13:33 When I die, will you honor me? Tell them that I targeted DrH night 1. I love you Chez <3 | ||
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Vivax
21685 Posts
 On July 18 2013 04:30 yamato77 wrote: Rayn, talk to me about Sloosh. Generally when I've played with Sloosh and he's scum, he goes into afk lurker mode and never posts. Seeing as that hasn't happened yet, I'm generally not thrilled with the idea of lynching him. What makes him a better lynch than VE? Scum #3 and #4 Scum? #3 -[brown]Chezinu[/brown]: Chezinu has been shown to troll in PM's (orly), and now even claimed that he got information of a red check on me, which can't be correct (unless I'm miller or framed). This is likely just some "powerplay" he's attempting, and I can only guess how hard his teammates are facepalming at what he did, just like I facepalmed and raged when he used his mafia dayvig power without consultation with others in LX. Multiple mason sources share the view that kholly is scum. Ultimately, being aware that it's Chezinu, I don't dare feeling sure about his alignment, I am only sure that this guy has to go, and is a lynch of first choice for today, along with layabout and S & B. He was another one of those responsible to drive the lynch away from SlOosh, and his voteswitches at the end are likely designed to cause confusion. Scum #4 - S & B The third town vigi? Come on. Sure, no problem with what he did, shooting ace is something one can really condemn. But setup-wise it's unlikely, and this guy has shown scumminess since his first post. [17:17] <@Pizza> Man [17:17] <@Pizza> S & B is SO scummy [17:17] <@Pizza> it's his whole way of "scumhunting" that rubs me the wrong way [17:18] <@Pizza> I don't see a real drive behind his posts [17:19] <@Dat guy> lemme find what i said to x [17:19] <@Dat guy> "I meant the opposite with the too clean thing. I meant too clean for a townie, potentially. I read his posts and they're fine and all but that's just it, they're ok. Nothing stirs me one way or another and that's always a worrying sign because townies are usually more annoying/opinionated/whatever." [17:21] <@Pizza> precisely [17:21] <@Pizza> he's not opinionated [17:21] <@Pizza> he tries to look like he cares [17:21] <@Pizza> does what he has to do [17:22] <@Pizza> but with no passion [17:22] <Dat guy> it's robotic [17:22] <Dat guy> i know what you mean [17:22] <@Pizza> like people who marry S & B has been one of the other forces behind the VE lynch, aside from the fact that he's obviously not really strong and big since his gf is able to hold him from playing mafia. Real men despise hoes to lynch scum, but strong and big isn't a real man, he's scum. Here's some interesting stuff that also supports the theory that S & B is scum with SlOosh: + Show Spoiler [interesting stuff] + On July 18 2013 06:43 VisceraEyes wrote: 16/15 PS: I'm America On July 18 2013 09:47 strongandbig wrote: Hey guys At my gf's house posting on phone Voting VE cause he scum I'll try to check back in one more time before the lynch but I might not be able to On July 19 2013 01:56 strongandbig wrote: Okay so here I am again. First, I saw some people being like "why in the world would anyone vote VE after his claim?" Basically, I only had a few minutes (my gf was like, "are you playing another mafia game? I need you to help with this stuff") and I decided to vote for the person who I thought had been scummiest all day. I voted right after this post from layabout: I felt more confident in VE being scum than sloosh based on their posting, and I wanted more time to try and figure out sloosh in pms by getting him to talk about reads. So I voted VE. Now, looking through what happened after i left the thread. First, there's the drH-firmtofu "steaming pile". Makes me think drH is town, I don't think it likely that a scum could fake that kind of emotional drive. On the other hand, i don't see anything between them to make me think firmtofu is town. In fact, given from tofu, the whole thing begins to seem like tofu baiting drh into raging. per drh, this has apparently been a strategy of scumteams before - apparently newb scum were "assigned" to bait him? So here's a question - Tofu, why did you keep having this same argument with drH? Was it really a good use of your time? Something I really don't like is that people apparently policy voted VE because of his claim. I mean, I don't think his claim was a good reason to not lynch him. Claiming is just something that VE does, it's not a reason that he's scum. So that means Ace and Layabout. Layabout at least had other reasons for suspecting VE, and it wasn't a pure policy vote. (he attacked VE's push on sloosh and his reasons for voting malongo). So okay. Although it is weird that someone who's played as many games as Layabout doesn't know how America works. but whatever. Ace is a different story, though, his vote was a pure policy vote: My problem isn't just that he hasn't posted any of his own reads, that could be explained by replacing in (although this thread is pretty short due to the post limit, so it should be easier to replace into). It's that Ace was drifting through pushing a policy lynch, without even engaging the alignment of the guy he was voting for, and now is focusing on that policy question again after the flip. This is Ace refusing to engage the town and pushing his usual scum agenda. So unless Ace starts substantially engaging and stops focusing on policies and simple dichotomies (see nuclear winter, where he just flipped scum, for another example of him doing the same thing), I'm calling him scum. And ask yourself, why would anyone who wants town to win say this: (1/10) "But Vivax, what's so interesting there?" Let me lead you back to one of my first posts about S & B being scum: + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2013 04:03 Vivax wrote: It's stuff like this that I also find suspicious about S & B (The scumreads/scumspects indicating people who he claimed he found suspicious without officially drawing back his suspicion): Scumreads/suspects during this post: SlOosh/Oats/Ve Scumreads/suspects during this post: SlOosh/Oats/Ve/Vayne Scumreads/suspects during this post: SlOosh/Oats/Ve/Vayne/Malongo Scumreads/suspects during this post: SlOosh/Ve/Vayne/Malongo What you notice from this is that S & B hardly pursues SlOosh and Vayne since his initial suspicion. I don't understand how his preferences form, and if I compare it to thread sentiment, he seems to follow it (which is rather subjective and is a point I don't necessarily want to rely on as main argumentation, I'd have to find every post talking about Vayne and compare it to his post timings, but it's more or less what I gained from the timeline of events). Mainly though, S & B is very concerned with people suspecting him, he regularly attempts to draw responses from people he didn't claim to be scummy in his opinion, which clearly shows a defensive mindset. His main concern should be to get information from his scumreads or getting them lynched, instead, he prefers to spend more time finding reasons from non-scumreads to have him as scumread. The nature of some of the questions also shows a subtle hostility: "Why should I even talk to you, I already defended myself" being the last example. I'm curious as to where he stands with SlOosh and Vayne now. As answer to S & B: I saw your response, but I think it missed the point. IIRC Wiggles himself touched upon that post not adressing the main cause of our suspicions. Well, what happened with SlOosh? S & B stopped mentioning him overall. I looked for what he did with SlOosh and I saw this, from earlier: On July 17 2013 04:37 strongandbig wrote: 1. Sloosh has three posts now that are entirely about PMs and mechanics. I don't like that. not one bit. 2. on looking back oats has already been masoned by both drh and ryan. I'm deciding not to mason him (yet at least) because (a) they will figure him out, and (b) it's in towns best interest to have the pm network be less centralized. 3. therefore, I am masoning sloosh. Interesting; all this time S & B was masoned with SlOosh, but they don't really seem to work much out, and more interestingly, that brings us back to one of S & B's former statements post-VE-lynch: I felt more confident in VE being scum than sloosh based on their posting, and I wanted more time to try and figure out sloosh in pms by getting him to talk about reads. So I voted VE. What the fuck? Go back to the post where I list up his scumreads, you'll find stuff like this: Anyway I think you might be getting too caught up in my language. Do you disagree with my reasons for finding oatsmaster, sloosh, or VE scummy? 1. Sloosh has three posts now that are entirely about PMs and mechanics. I don't like that. not one bit. So, S & B had both VE and SlOosh as scumreads, he masons SlOosh. When the time is ripe to decide, he shows no doubt, he posts no info from his PM's, he quickly picks VE, completely disregards the claim, and then apologizes that he did it cause he was in a hurry. He actually removed SlOosh from his scumreads upon being asked by Oats: On July 17 2013 23:51 strongandbig wrote: @oats you could tell if you looked at my filter but: VE Possibly VA Possibly malongo now that I know he's not a nub Also in case it didnt count before when I pm'd rol: ##give 3 posts to DrHelvetica (for a total of 3 not a total of 6 if the first set did count) (11/20) Yeah, so what? Well, I'll tell you how things likely went. S & B called SlOosh scummy when the heat built up against him, then he found a pretext to mason him, took part in lynching VE without any justification for having that preference except "I felt like he was more scummy". His justification for sparing SlOosh? They were masoned, his posts looked better. No mentioning of an impression he could have gotten from the PM's with him. Why? Cause they didn't try to figure out each other's alignment. He didn't feel conflicted at all before the lynch? VE claimed, he said he found SlOosh scummy, and he drops it all to switch to VE. Afterwards, SlOosh seems forgotten. Then there's this: On July 19 2013 23:07 strongandbig wrote: Anyway voting tofu. The case is good enough that I don't need to 100% believe the cop claim to at least vote tofu for now. ##vote: firmtofu 1. no. i saw a decent case that matched a claimed cop check. although i was the one to doubt the cop check, the fact that the case was decent and agreed with it was enough for me to vote. Questions: Where does S & B EVER take interest in FT before ace claimed the check? Why does S & B suddenly find a case good that has been posted D1, only when his scumread claims a red check on it, and he even doubts it? Again, where is SlOosh in all of this? I need to see what S & B and Sloosh have been working out in the mason logs. WIth timestamps and all, cause I think we'll find a vacuum there, and no proper justification for S & B dropping him that quickly. Finding inconsistencies can be the hardest part though, and I think the chat snip displays best why S & B should be lynched. His attitude is too apathetic and artificial to come from a townie imo, but this is hard to convey in a post. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Conclusion? Pick anyone out of these 4 dudes, and I'll gladly lynch any of them today, and the others the next day. ##Unvote | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
second of all, yea sloosh has done nothing to make me think he is town yet but I don't agree with Vivax on Koshi, I hope you guys aren't both scum because your scumreads pretty much just match up with thread sentiment right now besides the layabout case. I think my case on koshi is pretty solid so if you wanna look at that vivax and tell me why you think he would do that as town then I am all ears | ||
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Vivax
21685 Posts
On July 21 2013 02:19 VayneAuthority wrote: Well first of all I would like to apologize to RoL for putting him in the weird position of having to ask a favor of a mod to get me unbanned for this game. I should really just stop posting outside of the mafia thread when I am in a game lol. second of all, yea sloosh has done nothing to make me think he is town yet but I don't agree with Vivax on Koshi, I hope you guys aren't both scum because your scumreads pretty much just match up with thread sentiment right now besides the layabout case. I think my case on koshi is pretty solid so if you wanna look at that vivax and tell me why you think he would do that as town then I am all ears What about layabout, S & B and kholly? Layabout did something massively scummy there, I'm kinda astonished you only pluck SlOosh out of that list. Koshi [01:57] <Viv> do you think sloosh fits the profile? [01:57] <@Koshi> No, I already said that. [01:57] <Viv> :/ [01:57] <Viv> you don't want to lynch SlOosh, I take [01:58] <@Koshi> He is playing the game? [01:58] <Viv> barely [01:58] <Viv> he only posted when he had to defend himself [01:58] <Viv> koshi [01:58] <Viv> It is my utmost priority to get people to lynch sloosh now [01:59] <@Koshi> Alright I join you. [01:59] <@Koshi> Never played with Sloosh. I found this fuck-it-attitude kinda townie, he threw any agenda he could have had about defending SlOosh away just for that pressure? This looks a lot like a townie putting his opinion behind the one of someone else's he trusts. If you think he's scum, are you able to find some evidence for it in our logs? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:51 VayneAuthority wrote: yo im back and pretty sure I found scum Koshi's filter is full of logical fallacies and conveniently blending in with other people's reads if you can dissect his long posts. His first reads post Lists oats, VE, gumshoe, Malongo. People are convienently on Malongo and VE at this point but no one really on oats/gumshoe for the most part so even though he lays suspicion down on all of them he makes it clear that he wants to bandwagon onto the popular lynches first. This post pretty much spells out his play for the rest of the game, which scum often do. He regurgitates reasons other people have made on malongo and VE, then for his thoughts on oats and gumshoe simply calls them out on activity/posting? lol scummy. He then later gives gumshoe posts who is a scumread of his. Makes zero sense and that's usually a scumtell when you do illogical things that help the people you are suspicious of because you want to garner town trust (and you know they are town) Finishes all this with saying he has to go bed and casually leaves a useless vote on malongo who is in no real danger today. Unassociating himself with the flip today. Pretty sure Koshi is scum. This is what I was referring to. Also I don't see how picking out sloosh is weird because sloosh, koshi, and meapak to a lesser extent are my scumreads atm. It's the only one that currently interests me. kholly is scummy as fuck ill give you that, but its chezinu so I'm not willing to say he is for certain scum just yet, especially with how many people are pushing his lynch. Layabout is pretty useless this game as opposed to in roulette, I am pretty indifferent about him right now. Low priority if he's scum since he isn't affecting the game at all. The SnB shot is weird as fuck but he never really cares in any of his games so I don't see that as alighment indicative As for the logs, I'm not really too concerned with that as there's the possibility you are both scum. They seem genuine enough so it's not really my first option but we don't know his flip yet in nuclear and he was no fucks given in that game as well. I think that is just how he plays | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I don't think MZ is the best lynch for today. I don't get as much of the same feeling I did yesterday that he's scum. I generally agree with Vivax's reads and they fall in line with a lot of what I've been thinking. I think Sloosh would be a good choice for the lynch today. I didn't think he was as scummy yesterday, because he was attacked quite early, so focusing more on defense wasn't incredibly alignment indicative, but since yesterday, he hasn't made up for it. After the pressure on him stopped, he hasn't really done anything. He's made an analysis on layabout, but he's not actually pushing for anyone to vote for him. Compare the effort he's put in to getting layabout lynched compared to the effort he put into his defense on Day 1. It's pretty disproportionate. This shows that he was more worried about saving himself from dying compared to the effort he's put into finding scum, and now that he needs to help hunt scum, he's done just enough to look like he's helping. Additionally, Sloosh was soft-defended by Yamato a few times, with him making excuses for Sloosh's activity and lack of sucmhunting. Even his last post where he says that he maybe wants to lynch Sloosh, he puts a condition on it, saying that he'll only lynch him if he doesn't start scumhunting. This gives sloosh yet another out. This is somewhat relational, and while secondary to what I wrote above, is still another mark against him. ##Vote: Sloosh | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
I never said that gumshoe was a scumread. I just asked him why he was so active this game while he was superafk in the Nuclear game. It is so sad that you jump to the conclusion gumshoe was a scumread of mine. I absolutely never said anything like that. This games deadline is around 4 AM for me, dont know what you expect me to do.. I had no better read, nobody gave me a better read. I explained why I didn't to TF or VE. It would be pretty problematic for me if Vivax turns out to be scum. But hey, got to trust somebody here and I think that Vivax is the right guy to trust for me. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
##Donate kushm4sta: 2 posts Vayne, I don't really like much of anything you posted there about kholly/s&b/layabout etc. I don't think it's scummy, just not good. In my opinion it's a massive mistake to write a terrible shot off as "he's apathetic" because it's too easy. At the very least massive, massive pressure should be applied to s&b for what he did. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On July 21 2013 03:30 marvellosity wrote: You're ok Koshi. I'm your guardian angel for now <3 ##Donate kushm4sta: 2 posts Vayne, I don't really like much of anything you posted there about kholly/s&b/layabout etc. I don't think it's scummy, just not good. In my opinion it's a massive mistake to write a terrible shot off as "he's apathetic" because it's too easy. At the very least massive, massive pressure should be applied to s&b for what he did. Why would SnB, who has already been under heavy pressure this game, willingly post in the thread that he is going to shoot somebody? Makes zero sense from a logical point of view if he is scum. If you can answer me that then maybe I will give the case more weight. Until then it's just scum looking for a reason to off another PR. You don't like anything I post ever, so nothing new there. Koshi, some one has to pressure the people getting no attention or we have nowhere to go if we get to endgame. Just because everyone is going to play one style doesn't mean I am going to follow it, you should know that. If you are uncomfortable with my pressure just concede the game scum  | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 21 2013 03:36 VayneAuthority wrote: Why would SnB, who has already been under heavy pressure this game, willingly post in the thread that he is going to shoot somebody? Makes zero sense from a logical point of view if he is scum. If you can answer me that then maybe I will give the case more weight. Until then it's just scum looking for a reason to off another PR. There's no logical town-reason to shoot Ace either. People always seem to fail this test. Does it make sense as scum? No? As town? No? Usually if it doesn't make sense from either alignment it points towards scum. I learnt this from LI as a freshfaced newb when I couldn't work out VE's claim from either a town or a scum perspective and it confused the fuck out of me, and it turned out to be some elaborate scum ploy. If scum have a day-vigi shot, then they are going to use it. Take LX as an example, Chezinu was mafia and just shot some townie... because... he had a shot. To kill a townie. For free. And then people like you (I don't mean that derogatively, just people in general taking your attitude) say "but why do that as scum". Well, to shoot a townie and have other people defend them with wifom, that's why. Looking at it from your perspective, s&b has gotten away with shooting Ace for no god-damn reason because of your "well why would he" defence. Bad. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On July 21 2013 03:40 marvellosity wrote: There's no logical town-reason to shoot Ace either. People always seem to fail this test. Does it make sense as scum? No? As town? No? Usually if it doesn't make sense from either alignment it points towards scum. I learnt this from LI as a freshfaced newb when I couldn't work out VE's claim from either a town or a scum perspective and it confused the fuck out of me, and it turned out to be some elaborate scum ploy. If scum have a day-vigi shot, then they are going to use it. Take LX as an example, Chezinu was mafia and just shot some townie... because... he had a shot. To kill a townie. For free. And then people like you (I don't mean that derogatively, just people in general taking your attitude) say "but why do that as scum". Well, to shoot a townie and have other people defend them with wifom, that's why. Looking at it from your perspective, s&b has gotten away with shooting Ace for no god-damn reason because of your "well why would he" defence. Bad. Maybe from your perspective, I was of the opinion that Ace was a 3rd party role since he said he was playing for himself and basically just trolling the entire game. I didn't think shooting him was a particularly bad shot but it is off putting. Now the kicker is when I cross examine it the personality of SnB. Does this guy ever give a fuck? No? ---> leaning town. The problem is his opening post is way too well constructed to make sense from a town SnB, looks like the guy spent an hour on that post alone and it didn't really sit well with me. That's why he's at null for me at the moment, and I think there is a lot more pressing people to attend to like Sloosh and Meapak (since nobody agrees with me on koshi for whatever reason) Sloosh has still done NOTHING to alleviate any suspicion around him. He's basically afk. If he's town I really would not be sorry to see him go. If he doesn't post at least something of substance soon i will be voting for him again. As for Meapak see that he is demonstrably trolling the thread but in a different sense than Ace was. Ace was merely posting nonsensical bullshit. Meapak is trying to emulate that same attitude but is actively throwing shit at people. I see no reason to do that as town. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
You've picked up on the apparent effort that s&b has put into some of his posts compared to the Ace shot, so how that ends up as null to you is pretty baffling to me, to be quite honest. Shooting Ace like that when at the very least there's Malongo/kholly/probably various others is super serious. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On July 21 2013 03:55 marvellosity wrote: I could say why Meapak would do that as town but it wouldn't be polite. You've picked up on the apparent effort that s&b has put into some of his posts compared to the Ace shot, so how that ends up as null to you is pretty baffling to me, to be quite honest. Shooting Ace like that when at the very least there's Malongo/kholly/probably various others is super serious. You don't think that's the easy way out as scum? He could have shot kholly or Firmtofu and nobody would have thought much of it but he went after Ace instead who wasn't being useful at all to town. I am just not following you sorry :/ Maybe you know him better than me but that honestly just seems like too dumb of a play to come from scum. | ||
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Korynne
Canada990 Posts
For convenience for now: 1. 2. Kushm4sta - 15/20 posts, mostly short 3. 4. layabout - ZERO POSTS DAY TWO 5. Mr.Wiggles - 1/20 posts, said he was in PM land before 6. strongandbig - 7/20 posts, hasn't posted since he shot Ace 7. raynpelikoneet - 17/20 posts, looking for post donations 8. Meapak_Ziphh - 13/20 posts, mostly short 9. Vivax - 7/20 posts, giant posts of content :3 10. 11. VayneAuthority - 16/20 posts 12. kholly - 14/20 posts 13. Korynne - 9/20 posts 14. 15. 16. 17. Adam4167 - 5/20 posts, gone to a wedding 18. Koshi - 7/20 posts 19. Oatsmaster - 3/20 posts 20. 21. Marvellosity - 10/20 posts 22. DoctorHelvetica - 8/howevermanyDrHdontgiveafuck posts 23. slOosh - 4/20 posts 24. Malongo - 3/20 posts, 1 was just a song Hey not bad in terms of activity. Soft prodding layabout, wiggles, oats, sloosh and malongo. Obviously post count isn't everyting since there's PMs, hence soft prodding. [[This is a for convenience post (like Malongo's), and more of a hey I wanna hear more from people so I have something to analyze when I come back later.]] | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
it should be obvious to kill mz since he claimed an SK check on the town vig. plus look at who shot him since america and town vig and town dayvig seems a bit too much. mz claiming sk check fits mafia since town would fake a red check and it give mafia the chance of the correct flip if its 3p. i skimmd slOoshe case. LOL | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
i was going to call wiggles scum but i cant decide if mafia would bus mz or try to get away with it phone posting hurts | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
@marv what do you mean it doesn't make sense for town to shoot ace. He was actively refusing to engage in any way that could either help find scum or show us he's town. And he was actively disrupting and confusing the thread and advancing the scum agenda. I know how hard it is to get ace lunched, and I had a bullet, so I shot him. Plus I got to shoot ace. Right in the face. That's enough to satisfy me any day of the week, you could lynch me for it right now and I would still regret nothing. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
It's incredibly obvious that both sloosh and snb are mafia. vivax brought this up but he didn't give enough emphasis to it. On July 18 2013 09:47 strongandbig wrote: Hey guys At my gf's house posting on phone Voting VE cause he scum I'll try to check back in one more time before the lynch but I might not be able to This is him quick voting VE to save sloosh. Then there is the shot on Ace. On July 19 2013 23:07 strongandbig wrote: Anyway voting tofu. The case is good enough that I don't need to 100% believe the cop claim to at least vote tofu for now. ##vote: firmtofu So he still thinks there is a good chance of FT being scum when he shoots Ace. They are both scum??/ really sloosh?? zomg ace is trolling! kill him. yeah ok basically he is scum vig who saw it as a good opportunity to someone good | ||
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