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United States1964 Posts
Have you ever imagined what would happen if real mafia sat down with rival families and played a game of mafia, to the death? Rather than endless bloody struggles, the dons of Sicily have decided to settle their ancient and irrelevant scores by playing the most appropriate game of all. Success will land you riches, honor, and a steak dinner with the Pope, but failure may lead to swift burial. But beware, the supervising godfathers are short-tempered and quick to cut down loose-mouthed fools. Anyone who is likely to talk too much in mafia is likely to blab to the law.
Important Posts
+ Show Spoiler +
RebirthofLegend is helping host this game. He will collect night actions/abilities during the game. You can also ask for a link to the Observer Quick Topic as long as you are not alive in the game. I will provide my play-by-play thoughts and analysis after the game finishes.
Introduction:
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
Rules:
Same as normal if not listed here. Consult the mafia legal booklet if you are unsure. Have fun, play fair, and be nice!
Special Anti-Spam Rules
A primary concern of this game is to give a reduced spam environment where people can still participate without needing a large number of hours to sift through gigantic filters and 300 page threads. Currently the plan is to have a day cycle post limit of 25 posts, and night post cycle limit of 15 per player. Any player is free to give up to 10 of their posts to another player in case a situation pops up like a heated defense. This rule will not be absolutely strictly enforced so you don't have to watching over your shoulder at every turn, but is more of a guideline in hopes of making the thread more readable.
This rule may be changed before game start, so if you have better ideas to accomplish this objective please contribute!
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a (23 + 1 hour night/48 hour) day cycle. Night will last 23 hours with a 1 hour intermission where no Night Actions will be accepted. When that hour is up the following Day post will be posted. In case we are not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 11:00 PM ET/12:00 KST, but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread . Do not PM us your vote.
2. This game uses Plurality lynch.
3) Use ##Vote: Player or your vote will not be counted.
Signups:
This game is open to anyone with priority for experienced players who will create a high quality game atmosphere. If you are not accepted you go on the replacement list. If signups are competitive feel free to send the hosts a pm for why you should get in. The game will cap around 21 players depending on demand.
Game-specific rules:
This is a closed setup
Roles are hidden to start the game but will be revealed upon death, with the full role PM posted. All the town knows is this:
6 Mafia
1 Traitor
Traitor: There is a traitor in the game. The traitor is a townie who wants the mafia to win. He does not know mafia, and the mafia do not know him. Mafia have a one time guess to figure him out and if correct, can add him to their team with full benefits. The traitor also has a one time guess to join the mafia as well. If at any point he can pm the host with one less than the total mafia count mafia correct out of the total count (i,e 3 mafia correct out of 4 guesses with 4 mafia alive), he will join with the mafia. If the traitor is still on his own he will flip black and show up as townie to all detective actions. Once he has joined with the mafia he will flip red and shows as mafia to detective actions. If the traitor is not converted, the town does not have to kill him to win. If he is converted, the town must get rid of him for victory.
PMs:
This game has limited PMs. Everyone has the ability to choose to talk to two people for the game. Once you choose someone, you may talk to them in PMs for the remainder of the game. Once you choose someone, you cannot change your choice. If anybody chooses you, that does not count toward your two choices. You can decide who you want to talk with at any point in the game. Just PM RoL who you are talking to, and he will notify them.
Signed Up
1. EchelonTee Ace Vigilante, Killed D2
2. Kushm4sta
3. VisceraEyes America Lynched D1
4. layabout Parity Cop, Killed Night 3
5. Mr Wiggles
6. strongandbig
7. raynpelikoneet
8. Meapak_Ziphh
9. Vivax Town, Killed N2
10. FirmTofu Jailkeeper, Modded D2
11. VayneAuthority
12. kholly Town, Killed Night 3
13. Altairius Korynne
14. Yamato77 Silencer Killed N1
15. gumshoe Bodyguard, killed N1
16. sandroba Town, modded D2
17. Node Adam4167
18. Koshi
19. Oatsmaster
20. HiroPro Traitor killed N1
21. Hapahauli marvellosity
22. DoctorHelvetica Townie, Modded N3.
23. slOosh Mafia Goon, lynched D3
24. Malongo Town Killed N2
1. EchelonTee
2. Kushm4sta
3. VisceraEyes
4. layabout
5. Mr.Wiggles
6. strongandbig
7. raynpelikoneet
8. Meapak_Ziphh
9. Vivax
10. FirmTofu
11. VayneAuthority
12. kholly
13. Altairius
14. Yamato77
15. gumshoe
16. sandroba
17. Node
18. Koshi
19. Oatsmaster
20. HiroPro
21. Hapahauli
22. DoctorHelvetica
23. slOosh
24. Malongo
+ Show Spoiler [Polls] +Polls: Please only answer if you plan on playing in this game or will play if one of the following rules is adopted. Poll: Post count Limit20 (10) 45% 25 (9) 41% 30 (1) 5% 35 (1) 5% 50 (1) 5% 22 total votes Your vote: Post count Limit (Vote): 25
(Vote): 30
(Vote): 35
(Vote): 50
(Vote): 20
Poll: Silent Night CycleNo (12) 52% Yes (11) 48% 23 total votes Your vote: Silent Night Cycle (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Poll: PM'sYes - Limited, 2 per person (11) 41% Yes - Unlimited (9) 33% No PM's (7) 26% 27 total votes Your vote: PM's (Vote): Yes - Unlimited
(Vote): Yes - Limited, 2 per person
(Vote): No PM's
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i'd be afraid this turns into "all pm sandro/syllo/whoever and he figures out the game", maybe put a limit on how many can PM one guy?
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United Kingdom33843 Posts
I'm probably not the best person to say this given my posting nature, but the posting restriction seems really excessively restrictive.
Dr Who was a recent 12 player game and had a roughly 30 page day 1, and I don't think anyone in that game would argue it was spammy at all; it was also one of my more restrained games too and I had a little over 5 pages of filter, very little of which I would deem unnecessary - the lynch ended up being between 2 mafia, brought about by conversation and participation.
The fact of the matter is that people need to argue for their lynch and potentially pursuade ~20 other players; people change their mind, etc. etc. I find it hard to believe that, say, a 3 page filter is excessive in a day cycle.
EDIT: e.g. syllogism had ~50 posts on Day 1 in Fruity Mini Mafia, and I don't think anyone ever argued syllogism was a spammer.
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yea especially on d1 the 25 posts restriction seems very harsh.
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Day 1
Event1
Night 1
Day 2
Event 2
Night 2
Day 3
Night 3
Day 4
Night 4
Day 5
Night 5
Day 6
Signed Up
1. EchelonTee Ace Vigilante, Killed D2
2. Kushm4sta Mafia Goon, Killed Night 5
3. VisceraEyes America Lynched D1
4. layabout Parity Cop, Killed Night 3
5. Mr Wiggles Town, lynched Day 5
6. strongandbig Dayvig, Lynched Day 4
7. raynpelikoneet Town Pardoner Killed Night 5
8. Meapak_Ziphh Town Lynched Day 6.
9. Vivax Town, Killed N2
10. FirmTofu Jailkeeper, Modded D2
11. VayneAuthority
12. kholly Town, Killed Night 3
13. Altairius Korynne Mafia Pardoner, killed Night 4
14. Yamato77 Silencer Killed N1
15. gumshoe Bodyguard, killed N1
16. sandroba Town, modded D2
17. Node Adam4167 Mocsta
18. Koshi
19. Oatsmaster Parity Cop, Killed Night 4
20. HiroPro Traitor killed N1
21. Hapahauli marvellosity
22. DoctorHelvetica Townie, Modded N3.
23. slOosh Mafia Goon, lynched D3
24. Malongo Town Killed N2
Replacements
Ace
No ones going to argue that if you have more than 25 posts you are always, definitely a spammer. There are obviously going to be people who constantly are posting content. What I will say though is I think you will find most people can get the bulk of what they want to say done in 25 major posts through a day cycle. This is mainly designed to discourage one liners and true spam and I firmly believe 25 posts is more than enough for most people to get their points across in a succinct manner.
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Dr. Who had 22 pages of effective D1 Talk (starts on top of page 5, D1 ends almost on Top of p 27.).
Aperture mafia (best example that comes to mind for a not-so-spammy big game) had 30 players and a D1 with 34 pages, N1 had an additional 12 pages. That means it had on average 22.67 posts per player on D1 (34*20/30) and 8.28 posts per player on N1 (12*20/29).
Since an average like that with a post limit of 25 posts per player can only be achieved with almost optimal distribution of posts on players (which is highly unlikely due to scum interference etc.) I'd agree with marv and prplhz that 25 posts per player is not enough for D1.
Edit: Just saw RoL's comment. But then where do you draw the line? If you have 3 player at the end of D1 with 35, 40 and 45 posts, is any of them getting punished?
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Also, HOW would you punish them, if at all?
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Sorry for spamming (yes, I see the irony).
And how is the "give someone else posts" supposed to work? So Player A gets a lot of heat, and now Player B-F all decide to give Player A 2 posts. Now player A can post some more. But what about the others? You said that the limits aren't absolute, so how are you checking if Player B-F are indeed posting less? Are they hard-restricted to 23 posts?
Two ideas that just came to mind (not thought through):
I generally like the idea to motivate people into posting more concise, but I think it's the wrong way. Why not give out a maximum amount of posts D1 can reach at all? Like, once the thread reaches P40 all posting has to cease.
Or create benefits for town/players for staying below a certain average of posts / hour.
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I have two conflicting thoughts about the anti-spam thing, personal, and communal.
For the community, it's great to have a variety of games that cater to different preferences. There seems to exist a portion of players on TL that don't thrive in the generally very active environment that is almost universal in our games today. It's great that we're taking steps to cater to as many different players as possible.
Personally, I'd probably go dota-rage mode trying to play a game with a post restriction like this. This isn't for me, I not only think the "spammy" environment we have today isn't a problem, I actually think it's highly desirable. I think the games are better for it, and I would be sad to see it go.
As a side-note, if shortening the thread is something to be desired, I would suggest experimenting with silent nights (giving the mafia time to strategize, communicate and figure out their kills) instead of post restrictions.
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I will talk with Ver about a few of the points brought up. But silent nights are pointless. I originally was considering unlimited post nights because no one talks at night anyway. Even when you talk about the first day cycle you might have 40 pages Day 1 and 4 pages Night 1. There is no real significant decrease. Plus, that doesn't address spam and no content posting. I understand some people love increasing their post count though, and this game is not for them.
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kitaman27
United States8599 Posts
I went back through some of my old games and I found that nearly every cycle I would have come nowhere near the post limit and that was including a bunch of one liners and throw away posts. Combining day/night cycles and including any spammy posts, I averaged about 21 posts per cycle, which would be about half of the 40 post limit. I wouldn't really call myself a lurker, so the limit seems reasonable to me as something new to experiment with.
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I don't think it's an entirely correct representation of nights to say that "no one talks at night anyway". Yes, I would think they are less active, but your numbers are extremely exaggerated. Looking at for example a recent game XLI these were the page counts:
day 1: 14-59 (45 pages) (roughly 72 hours)
night 1: 59-72 (13 pages) (roughly 24 hours)
day 2: 72-115 (43 pages) (roughly 72 hours)
night 2: 115-134 (19 pages) (roughly 24 hours)
So the rate of posting seems to not wary that much. Granted, I just took the last big game I played so my sample size is small, but I honestly don't think there's that much drop-off in posting during nights. It probably exists, but it's not anything near what you just described.
I also resent the notion that people who post a lot do so in order to increase their post-count. I have a very difficult time believing that is true for anyone. I personally post a lot because I find it both the most effective and entertaining way of playing the game.
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Hello,
I would like to join the game.
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United States1964 Posts
On May 29 2013 22:38 Palmar wrote:
I don't think it's an entirely correct representation of nights to say that "no one talks at night anyway". Yes, I would think they are less active, but your numbers are extremely exaggerated. Looking at for example a recent game XLI these were the page counts:
day 1: 14-59 (45 pages) (roughly 72 hours)
night 1: 59-72 (13 pages) (roughly 24 hours)
day 2: 72-115 (43 pages) (roughly 72 hours)
night 2: 115-134 (19 pages) (roughly 24 hours)
So the rate of posting seems to not wary that much. Granted, I just took the last big game I played so my sample size is small, but I honestly don't think there's that much drop-off in posting during nights. It probably exists, but it's not anything near what you just described.
I also resent the notion that people who post a lot do so in order to increase their post-count. I have a very difficult time believing that is true for anyone. I personally post a lot because I find it both the most effective and entertaining way of playing the game.
I'd be up for trying a silent night mechanic. I thought it was not enough at first but after seeing your data and looking at some other games it would probably cut 20% posts out of a game without too much detriment. Plus nights generally seem to have the most 'useless' posts. Great idea thanks!
Personally I felt Liar Game had really great pacing for parts of the game (definitely too long though). 506 posts day 1, 108 posts night 1, 318 day 2. If that could be replicated, I'd be very happy.
Also I forgot post counts even existed for quite awhile now heh.
On May 29 2013 19:10 prplhz wrote:
i'd be afraid this turns into "all pm sandro/syllo/whoever and he figures out the game", maybe put a limit on how many can PM one guy?
This is taken into account!
Conclusion:
I have to talk this over with rol when hes back but right now I'm thinking the rules get changed to this:
1) No nighttime posting.
2) Post cap either removed or increased to a much larger number just to discourage excessive posting (like 50 or 100 a day).
3) "Give players posts" removed
Thoughts?
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EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Ver/misc/mafia.jpg)
