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On November 21 2012 22:03 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:47 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:32 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?
Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.
Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach? What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else. First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other. This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary. Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation. I think that that is irrelevant and pointless wifom, because if one of you is scum and the other isn't, you would be dead scared of each other in any case and try to act normally. I think it is fairly normal for you and sandro to have a conversation and it will not affect his ability to mindread you one way or another. However, if you are asking me if I think you are scum, then no, I don't. I am still rather null on you. However, there are things in your play that make me suspicious. Firstly, the things Kita just pointed out, and secondly because I feel you are making alot of your "scumhunting" while actually it amounts to very little. As for my honesty, at least I'm not fakeclaiming mason (yet).
This is a really pointless and irrelevant topic, but it would serve you well to stop using the term WIFOM and if you are town you should not attempt to downplay things that a person of one alignment is clearly more likely to do. That is all that mafia is, determining what is more likely. You can reduce anything to a level where you can claim it's "wifom" when in fact it is evidence of someone's alignment. WIFOM is a meaningless term used by lazy players, people who do not understand mafia or mafia aligned players who want to wave away evidence of someone being town.
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Why did you work under the assumption that party members chosen would not be disclosed. Seems rather counter-intuitive to me.
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On November 21 2012 22:18 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:17 Djodref wrote:
Mmm, yeah, transparency from the beginning is better in that case :0
So do you still feel you are the man for the job?
In fact, I think it would maybe a good occasion to withdraw my candidature because I'm playing two games right now and I didn't expect it to be so difficult. Hopefully, I'm going to focus on this game only very soon. I don't have all the time I should need to be a party leader today but I'll would be present in the thread.
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On November 21 2012 22:19 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:03 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 21:47 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:32 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?
Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.
Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach? What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else. First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other. This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary. Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation. I think that that is irrelevant and pointless wifom, because if one of you is scum and the other isn't, you would be dead scared of each other in any case and try to act normally. I think it is fairly normal for you and sandro to have a conversation and it will not affect his ability to mindread you one way or another. However, if you are asking me if I think you are scum, then no, I don't. I am still rather null on you. However, there are things in your play that make me suspicious. Firstly, the things Kita just pointed out, and secondly because I feel you are making alot of your "scumhunting" while actually it amounts to very little. As for my honesty, at least I'm not fakeclaiming mason (yet). This is a really pointless and irrelevant topic, but it would serve you well to stop using the term WIFOM and if you are town you should not attempt to downplay things that a person of one alignment is clearly more likely to do. That is all that mafia is, determining what is more likely. You can reduce anything to a level where you can claim it's "wifom" when in fact it is evidence of someone's alignment. WIFOM is a meaningless term used by lazy players, people who do not understand mafia or mafia aligned players who want to wave away evidence of someone being town.
I wholeheartedly support this post.
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I wont take clarity with me if I get elected. He smells funny.
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On November 21 2012 21:48 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible Quite the resolve on that campaign. Lazy syllo says to me scum syllo. You trust your ability to determine sandro's alignment in 48 hours over your ability to identify 3 town players out of the remaining 23? If you were serious of being elected, why wouldn't you simply include him in your party, while remaining a leader?
I believe we have had this conversation before in another game, perhaps even pypi, where I supported mig. In addition I supported sandroba's election in that 80+ player game and I believe you also played in that. I don't understand what your point even here is, are you suggesting that I'm mafia and don't care if town sandroba is elected or that we are both mafia?
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I smell funny? What does that mean?
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On November 21 2012 22:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
Why did you work under the assumption that party members chosen would not be disclosed. Seems rather counter-intuitive to me.
I didn't imagine it like this at the beginning as well but then I've realized that we didn't have any real control of who were really going to be the party members. So I wanted to know if we were really going to know them for sure at one point.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote:
There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.
I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?
Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough.
I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it.
Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing.
Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet.
There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game.
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I understand wanting to make sure, who wouldn't, but before the mod shared that info you were working under the assumption that party members chosen would not be disclosed, right?
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On November 21 2012 22:19 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:03 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 21:47 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:32 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?
Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.
Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach? What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else. First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other. This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary. Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation. I think that that is irrelevant and pointless wifom, because if one of you is scum and the other isn't, you would be dead scared of each other in any case and try to act normally. I think it is fairly normal for you and sandro to have a conversation and it will not affect his ability to mindread you one way or another. However, if you are asking me if I think you are scum, then no, I don't. I am still rather null on you. However, there are things in your play that make me suspicious. Firstly, the things Kita just pointed out, and secondly because I feel you are making alot of your "scumhunting" while actually it amounts to very little. As for my honesty, at least I'm not fakeclaiming mason (yet). This is a really pointless and irrelevant topic, but it would serve you well to stop using the term WIFOM and if you are town you should not attempt to downplay things that a person of one alignment is clearly more likely to do. That is all that mafia is, determining what is more likely. You can reduce anything to a level where you can claim it's "wifom" when in fact it is evidence of someone's alignment. WIFOM is a meaningless term used by lazy players, people who do not understand mafia or mafia aligned players who want to wave away evidence of someone being town.
I disagree. Most of the time it is worth thinking about whether something is more likely to be said (or done) by mafia or town. However, sometimes it just requires so many assumptions to speculate either way that the argument can be made either way: this is wifom. It is running the argument in circles to decide whether you are more likely to have put the poisoned wine in front of me, or you.
In this case, I see no reason why you would not engage sandro in a conversation, regardless of your alignment: it is what everybody expects you to do and not doing so would seem scummy. Given that Sandro is probably the guy who is most likely to figure you out, you have to appear normal most to him. On the other hand, if you're town, it is entirely normal to figure out Sandro's alignment by engaging him in conversation. So yeah: this is completely null and thus pointless.
Additionally, I am still undecided on Sandro, so you might both be scum, in which case you would have no fear at all of engaging him in conversation.
I do find it slightly townie that you hammer on this point. So a point in your favour.
You mentioned three possible reasons for calling this wifom. Which one do you think I fall under? You calling me bad, or you calling me scum?
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On November 21 2012 22:28 Clarity_nl wrote:
I understand wanting to make sure, who wouldn't, but before the mod shared that info you were working under the assumption that party members chosen would not be disclosed, right?
That's correct, that what I was thinking when I made my "secret plan" for my aborted campaign 
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It was a less nuanced way of categorizing players who use the term, the intend being to drive home a point. In reality it is a combination of things and disagreeing with me on the usage of the term doesn't necessarily make someone bad at mafia (but still wrong on this subject). I can not tell what your motive for using it in this case is and I do not think it is possible to tell, so it is irrelevant.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
syllo, will you throw your support behind sandroba if you are fairly sure he is town, or will you actually be running yourself?
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Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
I'm most interested in you as party leader at the moment.
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I am disappointed that Djodref dropped out. I felt he was the only serious contestant for Sandro and I don't like it that Sandro is running uncontested. I have been vague about my own aspirations, because I feel the last time I was voted mayor I let the team down a bit. I felt like I should take a back seat on this election, but without a serious contestant for Sandro I am not sure anymore.
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Oh, ok. Syllo is running. That makes me feel a bit better about taking a back seat. At least there's a choice.
No offence, iamperfection and dino, but given your play so far, you are not serious contestants.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
syllo srs contestant 
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holy shit there are 400 unread posts
like, fuck
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EPT
