EPTI do find it funny, though, that you assume I want people to take me seriously in a game full of established vets with way more experience than myself
Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 30
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
I do find it funny, though, that you assume I want people to take me seriously in a game full of established vets with way more experience than myself | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
Feelings from your gut equate to 80% scum? There's a reason I'm the only one responding to you at this point, everyone else is smartly ignoring you. Day 1 is not useless like you claim it to be, and that mindset is a detriment to town. | ||
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 21 2012 17:03 Adam4167 wrote: The issue with forcing people to scumhunt is we have no real way of checking if they're right other than sending the scummy people on a mission and watching it fail, which is not optimal. Apparently, this game is going to play much like the Resistance games - find townies. Eventually, the scum will be forced to disagree with the selected team if it contains no scum, which is where they'll have to display scummy logic to back up their disagreement and that's where we catch them. Just because we cannot confirm it with a lynch does not mean we should not be scumhunting. I imagine there are some blue roles akin to vigilantes, and although we should not direct them, scumhunting will help. Whoever said it earlier is right, if we do nothing but townhunt it will be real easy for scum to hide among town, because townhunting is easy as scum. Scumhunting as scum, that's where the problems begin to show for them. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On November 21 2012 10:51 Acrofales wrote: This is going to be so much fun. I finally made it into a greymist game  I am going to go out and assume that Lavos will be a game element and not a player, seeing as he will be "summoned" later in the game. So I am going to assume that the quests are to get to Lavos, and get any town advantages we can on the way (somewhat similar to Resistance mafia). My suggestion is thus to play this just like resistance mafia. Everybody suggests the party they will make if chosen as leader today and gives their reasons. This should be done by 12 hours (or maybe 6, given that it's day 1 and people still need to get going) before the deadline, giving people time to vote on their preferred party leader. To get the discussion started, I would currently choose Marv, Sandro and Syllo along: I know them, I know Sandro and Syllo work well together, and I know they are all good players. I have no clue what the quest will be, so bringing the best players simply seems prudent. However, as the day goes on this may change if I get clear scum reads on any of them. For Sandro and Syllo I feel a scumread is viable in D1. I don't think I can get a read on Marv in D1, but he's still more readable than Toad, who I would otherwise put in that spot. Acrofales, can you elaborate why you immediately wanted to pick Sandroba, Marv, Syllo to go? What did you think would be the benefits and risks of sending three of our best players? | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 21 2012 19:21 Dienosore wrote: I never said day 1 was useless... just that it's nearly impossible to have a perfect read on anyone at this point. And no, I don't expect anyone to actually listen to what I'm saying, especially when there are so many other solid players in the game with us. Maybe once I establish some credibility, sure, but until then I'd imagine I'm going to be generally ignored. Yes, but no one is asking you to make perfect reads. But when you claim you have a "80% scumread and 70% scumread", or when you keep posting that poster that takes up half my screen, is that you trying to be taken seriously? You say you want to be elected party leader and your reasoning is "I'm trustworthy and nice" | ||
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
@Clarity: No reason for us to continue arguing. You may not agree with my campaign methods, but there is no doubt now people will at least recognize my name when they decide to fill out their ballot ^^ | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
Guess I'm moving on. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:17 sandroba wrote: I hereby declare I want to lead you simpletons to victory. My party selection will be as following: I will choose 3 of the less known players who I read as town at the end of the day to compose the party. The reasoning is that this mechanic will greatly favor town in attempting to confirm players. This is better done for players less likely to get shot for 2 reasons: 1) They have less meta information available on them therefore harder to read. 2) Vets/Well known players are likely to get killed n1 if they are town, even more so given a successful mission, mitigating some of the advantage town might get. This serves to both preserve the good/known players and to keep the confirmed/likely town around longer. I'd like everyone to chime in on this subject of party selection and help come to the optimum way of doing things. @ sandro What do you think about not publicly announcing the party members D1 but to reveal them after the resolution of the event ? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 21 2012 17:34 Dienosore wrote: In an effort to gain your trust so that I can become the first leader, I have two solid scum reads that I feel need to be shared. Djodref: Supports sandroba, though he (weakly) nominated himself. Wants Clarity and Lamp on his team. Has asked a few times to different people what their reads are. Maybe mining for info? Said "I don't think it would be fair for the scum team not being able to kill the party members" Also, put out a hit on a town marv and town Hapa for being dangerous to the mafia. I'd say 80% sure he is scum <snip> @ Dieno Could you please explain what are my motivations as a mafia player for my play ? For your information, my candidature is now based on an original plan. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18100 Posts
On November 21 2012 19:21 Dienosore wrote: I never said day 1 was useless... just that it's nearly impossible to have a perfect read on anyone at this point. And no, I don't expect anyone to actually listen to what I'm saying, especially when there are so many other solid players in the game with us. Maybe once I establish some credibility, sure, but until then I'd imagine I'm going to be generally ignored. I'm reading every post everybody makes very carefully. I assure you most people in this game are, despite the large volume of posts. From your explanation of your scumreads, you seem to have a decent grasp of the basics: you are going over the way people are posting and why they are posting that. However, the second step is to explain it to us rubes who do NOT have the accuity in discovering scummy motivations in pronoun juxtaposition and verb tenses. Because I am currently more interested in Djoref, can you please tell me what pronouns and verbs made you think he was scum? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18100 Posts
On November 21 2012 19:29 risk.nuke wrote: Acrofales, can you elaborate why you immediately wanted to pick Sandroba, Marv, Syllo to go? What did you think would be the benefits and risks of sending three of our best players? Not reading the thread already? I was under the impression (and still expect it to be a very real possibility), that a successful mission will give the party members benefits (items, mason chat, a level up, whatever) that will help us root out mafia and/or directly aid us in fighting Lavos. The best players in the game are naturally the best equipped to use such perks. That is, if they're town. Sandro brought up a good counterargument, and making scum choose between shooting likely party members and shooting experienced town players is a good policy. On that note, @Sandro: you have not explained why this policy is pretty much the complete opposite of your proposal in Holy Roman, where you (a veteran and likely target for scum kp) wanted yourself as emperor (and thus a likely target for scum kp) precisely because you are an experienced player. On a similar note, if we follow that logic through, Sandro should not be party leader. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18100 Posts
On November 21 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote: I would like you to vote for me ! I don't know if I'm going to get the answers from my latest questions to the hosts but I know believe that the best way for the party leader to chose his party members is to do it in complete secrecy. The next day, I would reveal the members if the event resolves in a failure and I would not reveal them if the event resolves in a success. I'm going to base my election campaign on this plan. In a battle of information, you should give the least possible clues to your enemy. Of course, it would mean that you have to totally trust me on this one. Trust me on the fact that I'm town and trust me on my reads ! I'm ok if people would rather townhunt than scumhunt but I think I'll spend the rest of my day scum hunting rather than town hunting and of course promoting my own election ! I'm totally open to discuss the validity of my plan and if anyone has some ideas to contribute to it ##Vote: Djodref Djodref for party leader ! Trust me, I'm town and I have good intuition. I'll take my responsibilities in case of failure, I'll keep the info outside of mafia reach in case of success ! I'll give you everything in due time and I'm promoting traditional scum hunting for day ! What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18100 Posts
On November 21 2012 13:37 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: No, you know what. It wasn't poor wording. It's just you trying to poke holes where there aren't any. If marv isn't giving me scummy vibes, then I'm going to have a town read on him. If I have a town read on him, I will vote him today 100%. If Marv is a 3P, will you get "scummy vibes" from him? In fact, I doubt your ability to pick up scummy vibes from Marv at all on D1, regardless of Marv's alignment. I agree with Toad that this feels like a very cheap justification for parking your vote with no real justification at all. So explain to us all: Why do you think Marv is town unless he gives off scummy vibes? Am I town unless I give off scummy vibes? How about CaveJohnson (add other random unknown smurf here if you prefer)? What exactly constitutes a scummy vibe? I know Marv is rather notorious for hiding his scummy vibes really well. What makes you so confident that your long experience of playing with him let you find these scummy vibes? | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 21 2012 20:52 Acrofales wrote: What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On November 21 2012 18:13 Keirathi wrote: Syllogism/sandroba: You guys have ignored us, but what do you think of Toads reasoning for me being scum? Do you think I'm scum? What about Deinos 2 scum reads and 2 town reads? Agree or disagree with any of them? I think his reasoning is weak and your subsequent posts in which you attract more attention towards the fact that someone thinks you are mafia are fairly towny. I do not like your marv or no "vet" as a leader strategy at all, however. On November 21 2012 18:34 risk.nuke wrote: Hi, I'd proposed myself to lead the party since I feel I possess the essential quality's we'd want for a mission leader. But I feel I'm late to sign myself up and as it stands there already is already a candidate I want to support. As it stands right now I want Sandroba for our first party leader. No disrespect to marv who's one of the best scumhunters I know on these forums but a scumhunter isn't what we need today. I'm not sure how missions are going to work but to prepare for anything these quality's are what we seak. We need a player who's smart, adaptable to new situations and capable of finding the optimal play. We need a player who's good at analysing behaviour and who's good at finding townies. This is Sandroba in a nutshell. I've seen firsthand how he think and he is one of the few people I've met I trust can identify the correct play in a new situation. In SS mafia he created and executed the plan that dismantled the mafiateam in a day. Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination. Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays. ##Vote: Sandroba Perhaps I'm reading too much into this as being transparent when justifying your party leader vote is good, but this seems overly explanatory. I don't understand what's the point of mentioning that you were going to propose yourself nor why there was a need to mention marv at all (as a side note, I'm surprised that you hold him in this high regard; it's not something I'm used to hearing from you). One motive for saying that you intended to propose yourself could be that townies are "expected" to nominate themselves. The focus of the post is less on what Sandroba has done in this game and more on his general strengths. I'm used to a more direct risk nuke. I agree with your suspicions on acrofales, however. | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On November 21 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote: Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though. Party revealed or not, there is no way any of us can know that the person we are picking is going to stick to their word and select the team they indicate. The best you can do is put your vote on someone whom you find most likely to do as they say, and who will be transparent about why they are taking the people they are taking. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 21 2012 21:12 Adam4167 wrote: Party revealed or not, there is no way any of us can know that the person we are picking is going to stick to their word and select the team they indicate. The best you can do is put your vote on someone whom you find most likely to do as they say, and who will be transparent about why they are taking the people they are taking. @ Adam I absolutely want to have a town player as the party leader. That's why I proposed myself for the job. But I think it could be a valid strategy to not reveal the other party members before the resolution of the event. Town cannnot know for sure who you are going to pick anyway and you don't give extra info to the mafia. What do you think ? | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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