Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 29

On November 21 2012 17:31 Toadesstern wrote:

And yet you still haven't understood what I'm saying.
I'm not saying your reasoning is stupid. If you feel that way fine although I'd hope that you have more than just one guy you feel comfortable to read... I mean you just mentioned a bunch of people, yet you only mentioned Marv earlier, didn't you?

The issue is that you get in here telling us about that.

On November 21 2012 17:09 Toadesstern wrote:
This Keirathi guy is mafia.
Not because of what he's saying but because of what he's failing to provide: Reasoning as to why he'd post what he did so far.
There's simply no reason to get out here and tell people he's planning to heavily focus on reading one guy. Best case scenario is him being pointless, worst case scenario is him trying to look good by providing "something" while actually being pointless. I'd say we've got someone who's trying to get a cheap backdoor exit early on.

That being said I plan on becomming leader d1. Vote for me please :3

I plan on sending people I trust to be town. Especially my townreads are pretty awesome and I have an easy time picking up townreads early on so I'd say this job is the right job for me.
That being said I will not send people some kind of "majority" thinks I should send. I will send people I myself consider to be town and nothing else. That probably sounds stupid to those people who are new to this game but that's how these things are going.

Don't listen to people telling you they will listen to some majority-decided group they will nominate if they get to be leader. Vote for someone who's willing and comfortable enough to make a decision on his own instead of trying to dodge the responsibility but wants to be leader for whatever reason nonetheless. I know it sounds awesome to have people telling you that your voice will be heard and everyone can hold hands and decide on the group together but that's just meaningless smooth-talk. You've got your vote. You vote for the leader, not more and not less. Everything else is in the hand of the guy in charge. That's how you influence this outcome and it's enough. More than that just makes it way to likely for people to be influenced.

I will obviously only vote for someone I trust to be able to get good reads d1 himself in combination with a townread on said guy (duh). Having someone who's just going to roll a dice to determine who's going on the mission is not going to help us and let's face it, there's people who are at face value with rolling a dice, at least on d1.

On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.

Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long.

On November 21 2012 17:43 Keirathi wrote:

You're right, I guess I don't understand. How is explaining how I plan to use my vote scummy?

As far as mostly talking about reading marv (at one point, I did mention that there were other people I was comfortable reading if I don't feel like marv should be elected party leader), its because even though I feel like I have a grasp on how to read them, I don't think they'll be likely party leader candidates. No matter how strong of a town read I have on, say, iamperfection, its just pretty damn unlikely that he gets elected as party leader day 1 when there are vets "running" for the position that most of the game is willing to sheep.

On November 21 2012 17:34 Dienosore wrote:
In an effort to gain your trust so that I can become the first leader, I have two solid scum reads that I feel need to be shared.


Djodref:

Supports sandroba, though he (weakly) nominated himself. Wants Clarity and Lamp on his team. Has asked a few times to different people what their reads are. Maybe mining for info? Said "I don't think it would be fair for the scum team not being able to kill the party members" Also, put out a hit on a town marv and town Hapa for being dangerous to the mafia. I'd say 80% sure he is scum


goodkarma:

Seems to be in favor of Sandroba for pres, even though he nominated himself for it. wants sandroba and promethelax on his team. Put emphasis on finding townies, not scummies, which could mean he is scum. Asked questions that feel as if they come from mafia perspective (dealing with towny death and kill immunity). Attacks back at Keirathi after he explains that we dont know HOW the scum kills by saying "scum must be able to remove it somehow" Uses distancing language "town" when talking about possible medics. I'm 70% sure he is scum. Seems to be town hunting.

On November 21 2012 17:50 goodkarma wrote:
Nice to play with you again Toadesstern . There were a few things you mentioned I would like to briefly touch up on and then I'm really going to bed...




What you're saying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. However, I still feel it's important that you provide your candidates you wish to bring to the party before people make a vote for you. We can't just vote for you because you're a vet that will perform well for us if you're town...



This is a very interesting point. But keep in mind that since lynching at the very least isn't commonplace, it might be possible for scum to deliberately bus themselves even early to gain some town credit and not get hurt that badly. Like maybe they spend their scumhunting time repeatedly picking on hypothetical scumperson A for half the game until he finally gets lynched. They go out looking townie, and don't have to worry about getting lynched again for a very long time... I'm still not convinced that focusing on lynchings as the primary means for town victory is best in this setup.

Also, while faking scumreads on town is the standard task for scum in normal games, I'm thinking that faking townreads on scum as scum is going to be their focus this game. It will be easier for them to "blend in" doing this perhaps, but it should still be possible to find them, especially when a particular event outcome goes poorly. I still see this as the inverse of a normal game, where townreads are the priority. Scumreads may follow based on an unexpected vote.outcome to some extent, but only insofar as knowing whose opinions can be most trusted.for selecting the next party leader.

On November 21 2012 17:51 Toadesstern wrote:


The thing is that it gives us (read: everyone who's not you) nothing at all. Fine we got it but why are you telling us that you're planning to favor Marv? Are we supposed to talk about it? I highly doubt it.
Then why did you tell us preemptively about it? It really looks like a cheap excuse to justify yourself and I'm having troubles figuring why you'd want to do that?
That's why I said at best it's pointless, at worst it's a guy trying to contribute something while actually being pointless.

Your early explanation sounds like a set-up for the next couple of hours of this cycle.

On November 21 2012 18:05 Keirathi wrote:

Ah, okay I guess I understand what you're saying now, at least.

People were discussing which vet they were going to vote for, so I said I would likely be voting for marv. Then someone asked "Why marv, isn't he going to be super-hard to read day 1?" Then I started going into the long reasons why. I didn't just come out and say it all; it was an answer to specific questions. Unless you just wanted me to ignore them, then :o

Also: You gave two possibilities for my explanations: either useless, or trying to contribute while being useless. Notice neither one of those possibilities are "he's scum".

On November 21 2012 17:55 Clarity_nl wrote:


Okay so you explained what both of them are doing but you have not explained why it is scummy. Djo is "mining info" and goodkarma is "town hunting". Both of which are perfectly reasonable ways to play this game as either alignment. Please don't drop random percentages, and stop posting that poster.

On November 21 2012 18:14 Dienosore wrote:


It's less what they are doing, and more of HOW. I'm really good at reading language, like what verb tenses they are using or watching for specific pronoun connotations. For both of these guys, it feels very much to me like they are talking from a mafioso perspective, asking questions a scumlord would ask, etc...

That being said, I am not 100% on any of my reads yet and don't really want to throw up any red herrings. All this is only based off of two pages of material. Give me another day or so (assuming these guys keep talking) and I'll have narrowed things down much better.

On November 21 2012 18:13 Keirathi wrote:
Syllogism/sandroba:

You guys have ignored us, but what do you think of Toads reasoning for me being scum? Do you think I'm scum?

What about Deinos 2 scum reads and 2 town reads? Agree or disagree with any of them?

On November 21 2012 18:32 Dienosore wrote:
Clarity, is there a reason you are so intent on shutting me down after every post I make?

Scared I might find something?

-___-

On November 21 2012 18:20 Clarity_nl wrote:


They..... use certain verb tenses and pronoun connotations.....Asking questions a scumlord would ask?

Can someone please give me a read on Dieno or tell me I should ignore him, I really want to move on from him but every time I think his idiocy stopped it returns with renewed ego.