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@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?
Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.
Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach?
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On November 21 2012 21:12 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote:On November 21 2012 20:52 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:I would like you to vote for me !I don't know if I'm going to get the answers from my latest questions to the hosts but I know believe that the best way for the party leader to chose his party members is to do it in complete secrecy. The next day, I would reveal the members if the event resolves in a failure and I would not reveal them if the event resolves in a success. I'm going to base my election campaign on this plan. In a battle of information, you should give the least possible clues to your enemy. Of course, it would mean that you have to totally trust me on this one. Trust me on the fact that I'm town and trust me on my reads ! I'm ok if people would rather townhunt than scumhunt but I think I'll spend the rest of my day scum hunting rather than town hunting and of course promoting my own election ! I'm totally open to discuss the validity of my plan and if anyone has some ideas to contribute to it  ##Vote: Djodref
Djodref for party leader ! Trust me, I'm town and I have good intuition. I'll take my responsibilities in case of failure, I'll keep the info outside of mafia reach in case of success ! I'll give you everything in due time and I'm promoting traditional scum hunting for day ! What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though. Party revealed or not, there is no way any of us can know that the person we are picking is going to stick to their word and select the team they indicate. The best you can do is put your vote on someone whom you find most likely to do as they say, and who will be transparent about why they are taking the people they are taking.
The easiest way to get yourself (mis)lynched (or shot by a blue or whatever this games equivalent will be) is to say one thing as party leader and do the other.
The question becomes if it's worth it for scum to sacrifice a mafia member to make town fail a mission, and this all depends on the length of the game, which we know nothing about.
I think for now it's safe to assume that it is not, until we get information that says otherwise.
I think there's no reason for a candidate to withhold who they will choose for their party though, Djo.
As pointed out this is the only information that town has reasonable control over. Transparency is key for any candidate, and lack thereof should be viewed as inherently scummy or misguided.
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On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?
Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.
Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach?
What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else.
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On November 21 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 20:52 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:I would like you to vote for me !I don't know if I'm going to get the answers from my latest questions to the hosts but I know believe that the best way for the party leader to chose his party members is to do it in complete secrecy. The next day, I would reveal the members if the event resolves in a failure and I would not reveal them if the event resolves in a success. I'm going to base my election campaign on this plan. In a battle of information, you should give the least possible clues to your enemy. Of course, it would mean that you have to totally trust me on this one. Trust me on the fact that I'm town and trust me on my reads ! I'm ok if people would rather townhunt than scumhunt but I think I'll spend the rest of my day scum hunting rather than town hunting and of course promoting my own election ! I'm totally open to discuss the validity of my plan and if anyone has some ideas to contribute to it ##Vote: Djodref
Djodref for party leader ! Trust me, I'm town and I have good intuition. I'll take my responsibilities in case of failure, I'll keep the info outside of mafia reach in case of success ! I'll give you everything in due time and I'm promoting traditional scum hunting for day ! What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though.
Okay, I agree with you that we could use some answers.
Is town notified of the success or failure of an event?
Is town told who were the party members?
If you cannot answer, please at least say that you cannot answer
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On November 21 2012 21:23 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:12 Adam4167 wrote:On November 21 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote:On November 21 2012 20:52 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:I would like you to vote for me !I don't know if I'm going to get the answers from my latest questions to the hosts but I know believe that the best way for the party leader to chose his party members is to do it in complete secrecy. The next day, I would reveal the members if the event resolves in a failure and I would not reveal them if the event resolves in a success. I'm going to base my election campaign on this plan. In a battle of information, you should give the least possible clues to your enemy. Of course, it would mean that you have to totally trust me on this one. Trust me on the fact that I'm town and trust me on my reads ! I'm ok if people would rather townhunt than scumhunt but I think I'll spend the rest of my day scum hunting rather than town hunting and of course promoting my own election ! I'm totally open to discuss the validity of my plan and if anyone has some ideas to contribute to it ##Vote: Djodref
Djodref for party leader ! Trust me, I'm town and I have good intuition. I'll take my responsibilities in case of failure, I'll keep the info outside of mafia reach in case of success ! I'll give you everything in due time and I'm promoting traditional scum hunting for day ! What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though. Party revealed or not, there is no way any of us can know that the person we are picking is going to stick to their word and select the team they indicate. The best you can do is put your vote on someone whom you find most likely to do as they say, and who will be transparent about why they are taking the people they are taking. The easiest way to get yourself (mis)lynched (or shot by a blue or whatever this games equivalent will be) is to say one thing as party leader and do the other. The question becomes if it's worth it for scum to sacrifice a mafia member to make town fail a mission, and this all depends on the length of the game, which we know nothing about. I think for now it's safe to assume that it is not, until we get information that says otherwise. I think there's no reason for a candidate to withhold who they will choose for their party though, Djo. As pointed out this is the only information that town has reasonable control over. Transparency is key for any candidate, and lack thereof should be viewed as inherently scummy or misguided.
@ Clarity
I don't think that town has really control of the formation of the party members. The only thing that we control is who is going to be our party leader. I could be elected, stating that my party members are going to be players X,Y and Z, but then send a PM to the hosts during the night action resolution that I'm going to constitute a party of A,B and C. I'm not sure if we can control or at least check this or not. Maybe the following day, maybe not.
A mafia player would certainly lie about who is really going to constitute his party but not a town member. If I get elected, I'm going to retain the information of the party members for at least one day, to be sure to keep the mafia in the dark.
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On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?
Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.
Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach? What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else.
First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other.
This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary.
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On November 21 2012 21:32 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 21 2012 21:12 Adam4167 wrote:On November 21 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote:On November 21 2012 20:52 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:I would like you to vote for me !I don't know if I'm going to get the answers from my latest questions to the hosts but I know believe that the best way for the party leader to chose his party members is to do it in complete secrecy. The next day, I would reveal the members if the event resolves in a failure and I would not reveal them if the event resolves in a success. I'm going to base my election campaign on this plan. In a battle of information, you should give the least possible clues to your enemy. Of course, it would mean that you have to totally trust me on this one. Trust me on the fact that I'm town and trust me on my reads ! I'm ok if people would rather townhunt than scumhunt but I think I'll spend the rest of my day scum hunting rather than town hunting and of course promoting my own election ! I'm totally open to discuss the validity of my plan and if anyone has some ideas to contribute to it ##Vote: Djodref
Djodref for party leader ! Trust me, I'm town and I have good intuition. I'll take my responsibilities in case of failure, I'll keep the info outside of mafia reach in case of success ! I'll give you everything in due time and I'm promoting traditional scum hunting for day ! What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though. Party revealed or not, there is no way any of us can know that the person we are picking is going to stick to their word and select the team they indicate. The best you can do is put your vote on someone whom you find most likely to do as they say, and who will be transparent about why they are taking the people they are taking. The easiest way to get yourself (mis)lynched (or shot by a blue or whatever this games equivalent will be) is to say one thing as party leader and do the other. The question becomes if it's worth it for scum to sacrifice a mafia member to make town fail a mission, and this all depends on the length of the game, which we know nothing about. I think for now it's safe to assume that it is not, until we get information that says otherwise. I think there's no reason for a candidate to withhold who they will choose for their party though, Djo. As pointed out this is the only information that town has reasonable control over. Transparency is key for any candidate, and lack thereof should be viewed as inherently scummy or misguided. @ ClarityI don't think that town has really control of the formation of the party members. The only thing that we control is who is going to be our party leader. I could be elected, stating that my party members are going to be players X,Y and Z, but then send a PM to the hosts during the night action resolution that I'm going to constitute a party of A,B and C. I'm not sure if we can control or at least check this or not. Maybe the following day, maybe not. A mafia player would certainly lie about who is really going to constitute his party but not a town member. If I get elected, I'm going to retain the information of the party members for at least one day, to be sure to keep the mafia in the dark.
I've been under the assumption that once the mission happens the day/night post will say who the party consisted of and what the result was, do you think that is not the case?
Because if it is the case then it would be a death sentence to lie to everyone and do something you didn't say you would.
That leads me back to the "Is it worth it for a scum to sacrifice himself in order to make town fail a mission". The answer to that, for me so far, is no.
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On November 21 2012 21:35 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:32 Djodref wrote:On November 21 2012 21:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 21 2012 21:12 Adam4167 wrote:On November 21 2012 21:02 Djodref wrote:On November 21 2012 20:52 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:I would like you to vote for me !I don't know if I'm going to get the answers from my latest questions to the hosts but I know believe that the best way for the party leader to chose his party members is to do it in complete secrecy. The next day, I would reveal the members if the event resolves in a failure and I would not reveal them if the event resolves in a success. I'm going to base my election campaign on this plan. In a battle of information, you should give the least possible clues to your enemy. Of course, it would mean that you have to totally trust me on this one. Trust me on the fact that I'm town and trust me on my reads ! I'm ok if people would rather townhunt than scumhunt but I think I'll spend the rest of my day scum hunting rather than town hunting and of course promoting my own election ! I'm totally open to discuss the validity of my plan and if anyone has some ideas to contribute to it ##Vote: Djodref
Djodref for party leader ! Trust me, I'm town and I have good intuition. I'll take my responsibilities in case of failure, I'll keep the info outside of mafia reach in case of success ! I'll give you everything in due time and I'm promoting traditional scum hunting for day ! What if you get shot? What if the party succeeds and you get shot before you tell us who was on it? Party leader and formation (and the team's subsequent success or failure) seems to be our ONLY source of town-controlled information this game. If you die before you can give this info to town, we lose that information. Seems like a heavy price to pay and a giant target on your head. Also, I somewhat expect the game will reveal the party members. Without that, the mechanics would give us very very little modconfirmed information, which seems unbalanced (although if there is enough KP flying around we probably have flips, etc). Well, obviously, being the only visible target, I'm counting on a doc or a protective role to keep me alive for the night. I'm not sure if the party is going to be revealed or not the day after but I don't see any way for us to be sure if the party leader is going to respect his word concerning his choice for the party members. I would like to get some answers from the hosts before speculating too much on his though. Party revealed or not, there is no way any of us can know that the person we are picking is going to stick to their word and select the team they indicate. The best you can do is put your vote on someone whom you find most likely to do as they say, and who will be transparent about why they are taking the people they are taking. The easiest way to get yourself (mis)lynched (or shot by a blue or whatever this games equivalent will be) is to say one thing as party leader and do the other. The question becomes if it's worth it for scum to sacrifice a mafia member to make town fail a mission, and this all depends on the length of the game, which we know nothing about. I think for now it's safe to assume that it is not, until we get information that says otherwise. I think there's no reason for a candidate to withhold who they will choose for their party though, Djo. As pointed out this is the only information that town has reasonable control over. Transparency is key for any candidate, and lack thereof should be viewed as inherently scummy or misguided. @ ClarityI don't think that town has really control of the formation of the party members. The only thing that we control is who is going to be our party leader. I could be elected, stating that my party members are going to be players X,Y and Z, but then send a PM to the hosts during the night action resolution that I'm going to constitute a party of A,B and C. I'm not sure if we can control or at least check this or not. Maybe the following day, maybe not. A mafia player would certainly lie about who is really going to constitute his party but not a town member. If I get elected, I'm going to retain the information of the party members for at least one day, to be sure to keep the mafia in the dark. I've been under the assumption that once the mission happens the day/night post will say who the party consisted of and what the result was, do you think that is not the case? Because if it is the case then it would be a death sentence to lie to everyone and do something you didn't say you would. That leads me back to the "Is it worth it for a scum to sacrifice himself in order to make town fail a mission". The answer to that, for me so far, is no.
Let's wait from the answers from the hosts, ok ?
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@Djo
It is a really bad idea to keep the information to yourself... You should try to help town as much as possible and that includes giving us as much information as possible!!
@Clarity
I am building a case on you at the moment, keep your eyes open!
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I surely will oats. What is the reason of you notifying me, though?
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.
I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?
Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough.
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On November 21 2012 21:21 Djodref wrote:
@ Adam
I absolutely want to have a town player as the party leader. That's why I proposed myself for the job. But I think it could be a valid strategy to not reveal the other party members before the resolution of the event. Town cannnot know for sure who you are going to pick anyway and you don't give extra info to the mafia. What do you think ?
I want to have a town player leading this as well. I'd like that person to be transparent and give that information to the rest of us about who is going on the mission with him. It will help me better gauge what the leader is thinking (and if he is indeed town), plus the reactions other players have to the selected party will also assist me in making reads.
On November 21 2012 21:21 syllogism wrote:
Adam so far you haven't expressed a very few opinions or said anything otherwise helpful. You say Keirathi might be your number two choice for the party leader. Do you have confidence in his ability to choose 3 townies today? You also assert that there is no way of checking if mafia reads are right other than sending them on a mission; is this your honest assessment of how you expect the game to work?
I have moderate confidence in his ability to choose three townies today, if he's town. In Who's Line Is It Anyway, he displayed a decent ability to understand logic, listen to reason and vote accordingly. I get the same feel from him here that I got on entering that game, so until he gives me a reason to think otherwise, Ill trust him again. Maybe this would not make him the best team leader, but I would have no issue with him being a part of the team that goes.
In regards to my comments on the setup, I had only briefly read over the OP, saw it was predominately leader-select setup and assumed that this would play out similar to Resistance. From that, I overlooked that night actions will provide us with decent flip information, as clarity has already pointed out to me. So to directly answer your question, at the time that was my honest assessment of how the game would play out, but I was wrong, and will adjust accordingly.
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On November 21 2012 21:32 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?
Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.
Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach? What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else. First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other. This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary.
Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible
Quite the resolve on that campaign.
Lazy syllo says to me scum syllo. You trust your ability to determine sandro's alignment in 48 hours over your ability to identify 3 town players out of the remaining 23? If you were serious of being elected, why wouldn't you simply include him in your party, while remaining a leader?
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On November 21 2012 21:47 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 21:32 Acrofales wrote:On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?
Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.
Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach? What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else. First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other. This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary. Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation.
I think that that is irrelevant and pointless wifom, because if one of you is scum and the other isn't, you would be dead scared of each other in any case and try to act normally. I think it is fairly normal for you and sandro to have a conversation and it will not affect his ability to mindread you one way or another.
However, if you are asking me if I think you are scum, then no, I don't. I am still rather null on you. However, there are things in your play that make me suspicious. Firstly, the things Kita just pointed out, and secondly because I feel you are making alot of your "scumhunting" while actually it amounts to very little.
As for my honesty, at least I'm not fakeclaiming mason (yet).
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I was asked to answer these questions in the thread so I shall:
Are chosen party members kill-immune?
No
If not, what happens if scum kill a party member?
Party member actions (event success or failure) are determined before night actions
Does scum have to send in actions before they know who the party leader is? or after the whole party is made?
Night actions for everyone must be sent in before night resolution
The party members will be known to the thread when the event is deemed success or failure.
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Thank you Mementoss.
Ok so Djo, do you still believe your plan is the best for a party leader to employ?
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Ok. Djodref. Want to update your campaign?
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Mmm, yeah, transparency from the beginning is better in that case :0
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On November 21 2012 22:17 Djodref wrote:
Mmm, yeah, transparency from the beginning is better in that case :0
So do you still feel you are the man for the job?
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EPT
