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Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18100 Posts
December 03 2012 20:23 GMT
#6081
Dug it up for you guys. Note that the date is after this game had started:
On November 27 2012 01:12 GreYMisT wrote:
In my games I have always resolved actions (even the complicated ones) in the following way:

Roleblockers occur first
Busdrivers/redirection
Everything else.


All actions within each tier occur at the same time

CaveJohnson
Profile Joined October 2012
278 Posts
December 03 2012 20:25 GMT
#6082
Exceptions can always be made Acro
Mafia smurf
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18100 Posts
December 03 2012 20:26 GMT
#6083
This would have left some room for error if SnB had claimed Phagga had been bussed with Djodref, but SnB claims he wasn't roleblocked.

Is this where we post Samuel L Jackson pictures?
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
December 03 2012 20:27 GMT
#6084
On December 04 2012 05:23 Acrofales wrote:
Dug it up for you guys. Note that the date is after this game had started:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2012 01:12 GreYMisT wrote:
In my games I have always resolved actions (even the complicated ones) in the following way:

Roleblockers occur first
Busdrivers/redirection
Everything else.


All actions within each tier occur at the same time


What does that have to do with anything, unless S&B is the bus driver himself? :o
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
December 03 2012 20:27 GMT
#6085
On December 04 2012 05:26 Acrofales wrote:
This would have left some room for error if SnB had claimed Phagga had been bussed with Djodref, but SnB claims he wasn't roleblocked.

Is this where we post Samuel L Jackson pictures?

Oh, nvm I see.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18100 Posts
December 03 2012 20:31 GMT
#6086
On December 04 2012 05:25 CaveJohnson wrote:
Exceptions can always be made Acro

Not really. If you allow bus drivers to operate first, then you can get the weird situation where:

A drives his bus from A to B.
C roleblocks B, resulting in A being roleblocked.
Now what?

You can really only resolve this in one way: nobody is roleblocked. B can't be roleblocked, because he was bussed with A. A can't be roleblocked because he already performed his action (and if you roleblock A then massive time paradoxes happen).

However, this means that bus drivers are immune to roleblocks, which makes an incredibly powerful role even MORE powerful. Not gonna happen.

So, roleblocks HAVE to happen before bus drivers in order for there to be any kind of balance.
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 03 2012 20:38 GMT
#6087
Okay, how about this rule:
When a roleblocker tries to roleblock someone who gets bussed, it happens after the bus stuff.
Yes it's incredibly unlikely and snb is probably scum, but never say never.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
phagga
Profile Joined February 2012
Switzerland2194 Posts
December 03 2012 20:43 GMT
#6088
Ok, the main reason I am asking this is because if I was targeted in any way with the buss, I should have gotten a bussing night action, which I do not. But as I understand it, Theoratically snb could have been bussed to djo (though I agree that it makes no sense).
"A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." - Max Frisch
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18100 Posts
December 03 2012 21:32 GMT
#6089
On December 04 2012 05:43 phagga wrote:
Ok, the main reason I am asking this is because if I was targeted in any way with the buss, I should have gotten a bussing night action, which I do not. But as I understand it, Theoratically snb could have been bussed to djo (though I agree that it makes no sense).

What makes you think bus targets are notified?

Honestly, the normal MO is for them not to be.

Theoretically also not. I admit that bus drivers are not an easy role to understand, but Djo is one of the few people who we know could not have been on the receiving end of a bus with SnB, assuming Syllo targeted SnB. He had no spells left and would thus not have been able to target himself.

@Everybody: why are we going to the end of time on the word of Drazerk? It's retarded. His reasoning so far has been:
On December 03 2012 09:19 CaveJohnson wrote:
If we go to the end of time we can learn magic. However he did flip scum so it might not happen but it is our best bet to get additional powers.

On December 03 2012 09:37 CaveJohnson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 09:31 Clarity_nl wrote:
I think that's overthinking it and we should probably focus on people who are stronger in certain time periods, e.g. Keirathi in 600AD (or so he claims)


Another advantage for the end of time then - Its neutral ground since we've killed off one of its only residences. Equal playing field where we can't be surprised by interesting scum abilities.

On December 04 2012 02:17 CaveJohnson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 02:04 goodkarma wrote:
Did it occur to everyone that we already killed the Master of War (Spekkio)???

As such, I don't get what we're hoping to achieve at the End of Time.

Further: GreyMist has shown over and over again this game that just about anything can be thrown at us at his whim. Feel free to hope for one result (such as new magic abilities), but FULLY EXPECT you'll get another...

The ONLY THING related to times that we know about right now is that some characters have a bonus in certain times.



With the very very likely scum flip this cycle, I don't see anything too worrisome about matching up a time period with characters who have admitted having a bonus in that time + Show Spoiler +
(or even who just happen to be from that time period)
. I mean, unless this game is wildly different from a normal game setup there's going to only be 2 (maybe three) scum left. We've eliminated half their team. And we already know their KP isn't that amazing given how much trouble they've had killing even a single townie each cycle... So I'm not terribly worried if we pre-plan accordingly a party even if some of them become higher priority targets. I highly doubt that scum will be able to fully negate the additional ability advantage we will gain from such a play.


Looking at the spreadsheet, and the already claimed abilities, the time period that will most likely benefit us most is the Middle Ages (600AD). As such:

##Epoch: Middle Ages (600AD)



Neutral ground is better than shaky ground.

600AD is probably the scariest place to be as far as possible scum abilities go.



This is making me uneasy: I want to go anywhere Drazerk does not want to go. I don't think he has town interests and I don't think anybody following his reasoning is thinking straight. I don't care where we go, but Drazerk pushing for the End of Time is giving me juju feelings.

600AD gives Keirathi powers. Sounds good to me. Hell, the future gives Adam powers. Sounds good to me too. End of Time gives nobody powers (not Sandroba either, judging by his role pm). Lets not help Drazerk with whatever nefarious schemes he has. I don't trust him and anybody trusting Drazerk at any point in a game like this is a blithering idiot. I learned my lesson in HRM.
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 03 2012 21:35 GMT
#6090
You have a point there, the fact that he pushed for it is rather odd.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
December 03 2012 21:38 GMT
#6091
I don't get powers inherently from being in 600AD. I get extra powers from being in 600AD *AND* in the party, over what I would normally get for just being in the party during any time period. And weren't you not even wanting me in the party a few days ago? :o
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18100 Posts
December 03 2012 21:44 GMT
#6092
I didn't want you in the party when we couldn't be sure people would survive the party and your hidden modifier screwed that up. Anyway, I thought you got bonuses for being in 600 AD period. If you think it's pointless to go to 600 AD lets not. Lets just think about the End of Time deal which is basically Drazerk's little pet project. And Drazerks pet projects are terrible ideas to get involved in.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
December 03 2012 21:45 GMT
#6093
On December 04 2012 06:44 Acrofales wrote:
I didn't want you in the party when we couldn't be sure people would survive the party and your hidden modifier screwed that up. Anyway, I thought you got bonuses for being in 600 AD period. If you think it's pointless to go to 600 AD lets not. Lets just think about the End of Time deal which is basically Drazerk's little pet project. And Drazerks pet projects are terrible ideas to get involved in.

I don't think it's pointless to go to 600AD as long as I get to be in the party. If we go to 600AD and I don't, then its pointless.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 03 2012 21:46 GMT
#6094
For the record I don't give a crap where we go, but acro raises a good point that if someone pushes for a certain time period, I'll react depending on how I feel about that person. My feeling on Drazerk can be described as "uhhhh, ugh", so no EOT
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
phagga
Profile Joined February 2012
Switzerland2194 Posts
December 03 2012 21:48 GMT
#6095
On December 04 2012 06:32 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 05:43 phagga wrote:
Ok, the main reason I am asking this is because if I was targeted in any way with the buss, I should have gotten a bussing night action, which I do not. But as I understand it, Theoratically snb could have been bussed to djo (though I agree that it makes no sense).

What makes you think bus targets are notified?

Honestly, the normal MO is for them not to be.

Theoretically also not. I admit that bus drivers are not an easy role to understand, but Djo is one of the few people who we know could not have been on the receiving end of a bus with SnB, assuming Syllo targeted SnB. He had no spells left and would thus not have been able to target himself.

I got this ability that anytime someone targets me with a night action, I get to use that action next night, remember? I asked Greymist just to be sure, I do not have a night action next night. Therefore, noone targeted me with anything last night.
"A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." - Max Frisch
CaveJohnson
Profile Joined October 2012
278 Posts
December 03 2012 21:55 GMT
#6096
On December 04 2012 06:32 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 05:43 phagga wrote:
Ok, the main reason I am asking this is because if I was targeted in any way with the buss, I should have gotten a bussing night action, which I do not. But as I understand it, Theoratically snb could have been bussed to djo (though I agree that it makes no sense).

What makes you think bus targets are notified?

Honestly, the normal MO is for them not to be.

Theoretically also not. I admit that bus drivers are not an easy role to understand, but Djo is one of the few people who we know could not have been on the receiving end of a bus with SnB, assuming Syllo targeted SnB. He had no spells left and would thus not have been able to target himself.

@Everybody: why are we going to the end of time on the word of Drazerk? It's retarded. His reasoning so far has been:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 09:19 CaveJohnson wrote:
If we go to the end of time we can learn magic. However he did flip scum so it might not happen but it is our best bet to get additional powers.

Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 09:37 CaveJohnson wrote:
On December 03 2012 09:31 Clarity_nl wrote:
I think that's overthinking it and we should probably focus on people who are stronger in certain time periods, e.g. Keirathi in 600AD (or so he claims)


Another advantage for the end of time then - Its neutral ground since we've killed off one of its only residences. Equal playing field where we can't be surprised by interesting scum abilities.

Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 02:17 CaveJohnson wrote:
On December 04 2012 02:04 goodkarma wrote:
Did it occur to everyone that we already killed the Master of War (Spekkio)???

As such, I don't get what we're hoping to achieve at the End of Time.

Further: GreyMist has shown over and over again this game that just about anything can be thrown at us at his whim. Feel free to hope for one result (such as new magic abilities), but FULLY EXPECT you'll get another...

The ONLY THING related to times that we know about right now is that some characters have a bonus in certain times.



With the very very likely scum flip this cycle, I don't see anything too worrisome about matching up a time period with characters who have admitted having a bonus in that time + Show Spoiler +
(or even who just happen to be from that time period)
. I mean, unless this game is wildly different from a normal game setup there's going to only be 2 (maybe three) scum left. We've eliminated half their team. And we already know their KP isn't that amazing given how much trouble they've had killing even a single townie each cycle... So I'm not terribly worried if we pre-plan accordingly a party even if some of them become higher priority targets. I highly doubt that scum will be able to fully negate the additional ability advantage we will gain from such a play.


Looking at the spreadsheet, and the already claimed abilities, the time period that will most likely benefit us most is the Middle Ages (600AD). As such:

##Epoch: Middle Ages (600AD)



Neutral ground is better than shaky ground.

600AD is probably the scariest place to be as far as possible scum abilities go.



This is making me uneasy: I want to go anywhere Drazerk does not want to go. I don't think he has town interests and I don't think anybody following his reasoning is thinking straight. I don't care where we go, but Drazerk pushing for the End of Time is giving me juju feelings.

600AD gives Keirathi powers. Sounds good to me. Hell, the future gives Adam powers. Sounds good to me too. End of Time gives nobody powers (not Sandroba either, judging by his role pm). Lets not help Drazerk with whatever nefarious schemes he has. I don't trust him and anybody trusting Drazerk at any point in a game like this is a blithering idiot. I learned my lesson in HRM.


We don't need extra powers to win this game. There is no possible events which can happen at the end of time leaving only a lynch as the possible choice. It makes perfect sense logic wise. I've already stated I'm from 1000AD it gives me nothing.

I will fight for the end of the time all cycle because that is where I think we will have the best chance of another lynch cycle and that is the greatest tool we can have as town. Ignore the fact that it is Drazerk suggesting this and think it as if I'm someone else. You know this makes sense.
Mafia smurf
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 22:16:28
December 03 2012 22:16 GMT
#6097
On December 04 2012 05:23 Acrofales wrote:
Dug it up for you guys. Note that the date is after this game had started:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2012 01:12 GreYMisT wrote:
In my games I have always resolved actions (even the complicated ones) in the following way:

Roleblockers occur first
Busdrivers/redirection
Everything else.


All actions within each tier occur at the same time



Please Don't.

Ask me in thread how something functions and I will tell you to the best of my ability. But please don't dig up things im saying in other threads as a way to "solve" this game.

This is your final warning.
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 03 2012 23:27 GMT
#6098
On December 04 2012 07:16 GreYMisT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 05:23 Acrofales wrote:
Dug it up for you guys. Note that the date is after this game had started:
On November 27 2012 01:12 GreYMisT wrote:
In my games I have always resolved actions (even the complicated ones) in the following way:

Roleblockers occur first
Busdrivers/redirection
Everything else.


All actions within each tier occur at the same time



Please Don't.

Ask me in thread how something functions and I will tell you to the best of my ability. But please don't dig up things im saying in other threads as a way to "solve" this game.

This is your final warning.


Do action resolutions work as-described by the post that Acro quoted?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
December 03 2012 23:31 GMT
#6099
Something to consider about a busdriver on phagga is that I requested the check on him with only a few minutes left in the cycle. The mafia team would have had to see the post, agree to changing their actions, and submit it to both hosts in a very short amount of time. Furthermore, this only works if syllo happens to choose to investigate s&b and mafia actually has a redirection role. Considering we were considering a S&B lynch even before this check, I think S&B's best option right now is to post a strong case against his strongest read and we can evaluate it after his flip.

24 hours and VE still hasn't posted? Pew Pew.

On December 04 2012 02:52 syllogism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 02:51 iamperfection wrote:
I was trying to heal clarity

Prom says his role roleblocked everyone who attempted to visit Clarity. I'm not sure if I still understand how his role allegedly works though.


Something to note is that I didn't visit Clarity last night, yet I was roleblocked.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
December 03 2012 23:34 GMT
#6100
On December 04 2012 08:27 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 07:16 GreYMisT wrote:
On December 04 2012 05:23 Acrofales wrote:
Dug it up for you guys. Note that the date is after this game had started:
On November 27 2012 01:12 GreYMisT wrote:
In my games I have always resolved actions (even the complicated ones) in the following way:

Roleblockers occur first
Busdrivers/redirection
Everything else.


All actions within each tier occur at the same time



Please Don't.

Ask me in thread how something functions and I will tell you to the best of my ability. But please don't dig up things im saying in other threads as a way to "solve" this game.

This is your final warning.


Do action resolutions work as-described by the post that Acro quoted?


Assuming the standard version that all of the above roles are what we are talking about, then yes
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
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