EPTLast sentence was the start of "Can anyone who is in the mason circle let us know if risk.nuke is speaking in there?" Someone else brought that up earlier today, and it was a good point. If his activity in game has dropped, but he's been speaking within the tent, then it's not so odd.
Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 307
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Last sentence was the start of "Can anyone who is in the mason circle let us know if risk.nuke is speaking in there?" Someone else brought that up earlier today, and it was a good point. If his activity in game has dropped, but he's been speaking within the tent, then it's not so odd. | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:30 austinmcc wrote: As far as people who get something from a specific time we've got...Keirathi with 600 AD; Oatsmaster with 2300 AD; Adam wants 2300 AD as well. I'm down with 600 AD and doing whatever it is Keirathi needs done. Adam seems to want to shoot me (do you still want to? you're less active than me...) so I'd prefer he not get stronger, and Oats said whatever is in 2300 AD for him isn't super duper. My issue with Z-boson was not activity related, he was pushing vig shots with horrendous reasoning. You're making a lot more sense than Z-boson was, so i'm willing to look elsewhere for now. Ill probably blast VE tonight unless he makes a great case as to why I shouldn't. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The only thing we DEFINITELY lose from Lavos being summoned early is more cycles. Cycles are good for lynching scum (hopefully) and traveling around, completing events Because lynches aren't reliable, traveling around is probably good for us, otherwise Lavos being summoned early wouldn't be a negative thing. That...makes sense right? | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:38 Adam4167 wrote: I meant that, apart from knowing you want(ed) to shoot me, and wanting to go to 2300 AD to perhaps shoot me harder, I don't know know anything about what you think, because you're less active than the major voices.My issue with Z-boson was not activity related, he was pushing vig shots with horrendous reasoning. You're making a lot more sense than Z-boson was, so i'm willing to look elsewhere for now. Ill probably blast VE tonight unless he makes a great case as to why I shouldn't. As are a bunch of people, but none of the others shot me, so I'm more concerned with what you're up to. | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 04 2012 10:50 austinmcc wrote: I meant that, apart from knowing you want(ed) to shoot me, and wanting to go to 2300 AD to perhaps shoot me harder, I don't know know anything about what you think, because you're less active than the major voices. As are a bunch of people, but none of the others shot me, so I'm more concerned with what you're up to. Check my filter. I have concerns over VE. I thought Z-BosoN was scum and now i'm starting to think he was just incoherent. I thought GK looked pretty bad but I have reservations in the way he reacted to all of the pressure, it didn't feel like a scum reaction. S&B has made me look like an ass for me giving him a 'not scum' read and then going and killing Djodref, so he can die. I seem to have too many town reads at the moment, so ill be chucking most of my reads out over the course of this cycle and starting back at the beginning. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
Seriously into replacement/modkill territory | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote: So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far. IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1der Acrofales kushm4sta Z-Boson Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count Kitaman27 (5): CaveJohnson, Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, strongnbig Goodkarma (1): risknuke Hapahauli (3): Hapahauli, Iamperfection, Clarity_nl, Dienosore (1): Dienosore Syllogism (14): Toadesstern, Acrofales, BioSC, Hopeless1der, djodref, keirathi, goodkarma, Adam4167, Syllogism, Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, TheChronicler, zboson (red for emphasis), sandroba Remember that voting is mandatory. All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 02:10 CaveJohnson wrote: 09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus. Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real. I don't dismiss it completely. I feel that we have two players that claimed a cop-role with redchecks on Toad, and that needs to be followed through next time we can get a lynch, but on the chance that he's telling the truth, I don't want him taking 500 points of needless damage. Unless it actually kills him, it won't really matter since we'd be lynching him next, right? I'm trying to cover my bases for the 'just in case' scenario. I don't see a significant downside to what I did, even if Toad is scum. I felt that scum had a reasonable motivation to both support sandroba for party leader and not lynch him the following day. Z-Boson. When I determined that Z-Bo fell into this category, he was adamant that I was making things up and that I'd falsified/misrepresented the voting to make him look bad. His vote was not recorded correctly and he didn't seem to look much further into it than to conclude I was full of shit. Only AFTER Mementoss updated the votecount did Z-Bo rescind his statements and admit to there being something amiss. HOWEVER: On November 23 2012 07:53 Z-BosoN wrote: Mod error, sand is not even in the vote tally. Can we please get a corrected vote count?? He clearly knew something got screwed up earlier. Why wouldn't he immediately spring into action about my failure to read his filter properly, or at least point this out that there was an error? On November 26 2012 08:25 Z-BosoN wrote: Dude, you're lying, I didn't vote for syllo. You can't even see the vote count you posted doesn't have any votes on syllo. A quick look at the voting thread will show you that I voted for sand. I'm saying the truth, while you are being lazy and trying to make it seem like you are scumhunting. This post was here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17027632 and our exchange is a little ways in both directions, but this post primarily illustrates my point Once he realizes he's messed up, here is his attempt to discredit my case: + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 08:34 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hopeless Actually, hopeless, I see what you mean now. I thought you said that I voted for syllo, but now I see that this is not what you said, I read it wrong. In which case, your logic includes yourself as being possible scum. Therefore, if you were town, it's obviously bad logic, no? Here: All in all, I found it really scummy but we had red-checks to deal with. His voting, and process for developing his reasons for voting are very scummy. First, his sandroba vote from Day 1: On November 23 2012 06:55 Z-BosoN wrote: Well, granted my thoughts on this setup, I'm staying with sandroba. I don't like how syllo is not being transparent AT ALL, based on "don't want scum to know", which makes little sense to me, especially when he made the psot (4 hours to go). Imo, that would have been almost the perfect time to give us his town reads. Sand has not been exactly graceful in this regard, but like I said, I feel that if he's scum he'll be too hard to pin down. I know that I'm saying this a lot, without too much back it up, but out of the candidates I feel best on him. I agree with his read on GK, especially after hapa's post on him. ##Vote sandroba. On November 23 2012 06:58 Z-BosoN wrote: EBWOP: ...I feel that if he's scum, hell be much easier to pin down... He notes that sand should be easy to discern as scum if sand is in fact scum. He also gives a scumread on SnB and adam (falsely assuming adam is a lurking newbie) On November 23 2012 09:31 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, am I the only one troubled that Toad is not posting relatively at all? In LVII he was annoying as hell with huge posts, being SK (but trying to look townie), and I haven't seen him doing this here at all... This is the first of his suspicions against Toad (Queen Zeal). When I point out that Toad wasn't even town in the game he referenced and that I'd like an example of TOWN Toad being different than the current game, he gives me: On November 23 2012 09:39 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hopeless I don't feel like giving it much research before I hear from some people. I'm only putting LVII on reference here, because he was much more proactive in looking for scum and giving his reads. Hugeass posts. etc This is incredibly weak reasoning to pursue a scumread when he's listed SnB earlier, and there's ongoing discussion's about Sandroba. Oh yeah, Sando: On November 23 2012 09:28 Z-BosoN wrote: SNIP So, @Syllogism, do you think sandroba's play is him being scum? He started out pretty good imo, but his absence here is not cool at all. Fair reason to be suspicious. And we all know how town loves to sheep them some syllogism. So why did that not occur here? On November 24 2012 03:16 Z-BosoN wrote: So I take it you are not so familiar with his meta? Because both Toad and Adam seemed to give him scum reads on meta. I'm also disturbed on how syllo is reluctant to give a read on him. I've asked him twice at this time, and he still doesn't take a solid position. There are two newbies using the logic "syllo won the event ergo sand is scum" and that's going unopposed. I don't get why he's not taking a position against sand. I second that a game in which syllo and sand played together as opposite alignments would be quite instructive. That way we can tell just how accurate these vet reads being made are and I'll be more comfortable regarding people's reads. For the record I'm opposed to a sand lynch at this time, until more people comment on the cases on him, at least. Right now there are much better lynches, more into that in a bit. More on that eh? Alright, let's watch. I'll leave it to you, the reader, to go through his filter, but Z-Bo spends a good amount of time tunneling TheChronicler, but never places a vote on TC. Both Z-Bo and Acro go at him pretty hard, pointing out scummy contradictions (which at the time I saw and latched onto as well) but Z-Bo wasn't willing to back it up with a vote. On November 25 2012 06:52 Z-BosoN wrote: @TheChronicle 1) I assumed the contradiction you were referring to was the two-line post you were responding to, not acro's post. 2) Ugh this makes little sense. Keir is not saying syllo is near confirmed scum. This doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever. Anyways, from your comment on keir it seems you are bunch oblivious to what ppl say and you have a reaaally weird thought process. Anyways, perhaps I'm being too based upon on your contradictions and shit, and I realize that (somehow) you actually believed that what you were saying was. Anyways, I don't see how exactly your play is mafia-oriented, so I'll 180 and say you are town, for now. Regarding my vote I know I said earlier that I expected other people to easily be able to figure out sand, but I never figured it'd be this fast, this easy, and with so little discussion. I really don't like how easily his wagon took off, especially given the fact that syllo, who is basically telling people to sheep him, has disappeared (despite saying he was going to be more active today). This smells really fishy, and is not how I expected it to go down, at all. Also, it grew extremely quickly, so either mafia decided to bus him fast or they actually want him dead. I'm inclined to think the latter, given that he's a strong player. Additionally, sand seems to be heading into modkill-land. I really think this is a wasted lynch, especially when he said that he was going to be afk. Right now I'd rather lynch prome (or even iamp), but I can live with a Toad lynch. Since we need to consolidate, and I don't have much time right now, I'll just go ahead and vote toad. Like I noted earlier, his play is totally different from when he was trying to look townie, and Acro's case is convincing enough. I'll comment more when I have more time. Have to go right now, but will post from cell phone should anyone have any questions. Anyways, ##Vote Toaddestern. This is the epitome of scummy behavior. Shitty reasoning to 180 his read on TC, citing the "speed" of the wagon and the possibility of modkills to avoid voting sandroba and again, pointing out that Toad is different than when Toad was "trying to look townie. Again, Toad was NOT town in the game Z-Bo is referring to and it is extremely fallacious of him to draw a comparison in my opinion. There is now the problem of Z-Bo being replaced. austinmcc has made it clear that replacing into this game was not easy, and I can respect that point, but I don't have much of a reason to think he's town or scum, whereas I had an existing scumread on the person he replaced in for. I'm fine with lynching SnB today because that seems like an almost mechanically confirmed scum, but if I don't see anything special from austin to change this read, I'm pushing with all I have to see austin flip. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
##Lynch: Strongandbig ##Epoch: 600 AD | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
What is it you don't "enjoy" about people not wanting to go to EOT because of draz. It's not so much spite as it is weird that he's pushing for it. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On December 04 2012 12:35 Clarity_nl wrote: Without looking at zbo's filter your case looks pretty solid hopeless, would you consider him your top lynch candidate after snb? I'll go read his filter tomorrow and give you some thoughts. What is it you don't "enjoy" about people not wanting to go to EOT because of draz. It's not so much spite as it is weird that he's pushing for it. Yes, austin is my top scumread primarily due to replacing Z-Bo. There's a teensy bit in there for hiding behind his replacement status, but he's at least putting some content into the thread so far. A good chunk is setup speculation, so I'll feel better once he's had a reasonable chance to get caught up, as he can't hide behind that replacement veil forever. Regarding spite towards draz: As you say, its 'weird' not scummy. I see it as spite towards draz for no other reason than that he's draz. That's an argument for vigging him down, not deciding where to epoch ourselves to, and that's why I have a problem with it. We weren't considering the merits of the EoT, we were considering the merits of not giving draz what he wanted. In any case, I have my own selfish reasons for going to 600AD. I'm not particularly expectant, as my role pm doesn't explicitly allude towards anything, but what the hell, right? K I'm going to bed. 'Nite. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I'm parsing through your Z-Boson case and I don't agree with it at all. Your 3rd section (about his voting actions on D2) rather strongly indicates that he's town to me. So Z-Boson has put heavy pressure on StrongandBig (who we're all expecting to flip scum) in the very early game. Then hypothetical scum-ZBo turns down a really easy bussing opportunity (Sandro) to... vote ANOTHER of his teammates? I'm not buying it. He's a bit all-over the place, but it's not scummy at all. He definitely could be scum but I think his early-game actions speak against it. Furthermore, calling damage-night actions on a replacement is a pretty bad idea. Especially austin, who IMO is pretty easy to read. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 04 2012 15:03 Hapahauli wrote: Especially austin, who IMO is pretty easy to read. Off-topic and not entirely relevant, but why do you think austin is easy to read? His only scum game was Aperture 2, and I thought you didn't follow that game? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 04 2012 15:05 Keirathi wrote: Off-topic and not entirely relevant, but why do you think austin is easy to read? His only scum game was Aperture 2, and I thought you didn't follow that game? I read through it somewhere towards the end of GSL III Mini. Austin brought it up to me while I was trying to make a meta read on him. Austin has a very peculiar way of thinking as town that is often on early display in his games. His scum-game (Aperture 2), while reasonably active, also shows a pretty different analysis-mentality. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 04 2012 15:15 Hapahauli wrote: Oh Kei, since you're around, I've been trying to get people to hash out the case on me. I've really had nothing to respond to, and apparently you think I'm scum. Why do you think so? I recently said I didn't think you were scum based on the mod PM thing, which pushed you back to null. Your point about voting Toad day 2 rather than Sandro has some townie merit, but you have some things that keep you kind of in the neutral zone for me (the Prom case, trying to force yourself into the party leader after we had successful parties...I think there was something else, but honestly its too late to go look back through your whole filter). | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 04 2012 15:23 Keirathi wrote: I recently said I didn't think you were scum based on the mod PM thing, which pushed you back to null. Your point about voting Toad day 2 rather than Sandro has some townie merit, but you have some things that keep you kind of in the neutral zone for me (the Prom case, trying to force yourself into the party leader after we had successful parties...I think there was something else, but honestly its too late to go look back through your whole filter). Well that's better to hear I suppose. May as well address the concerns since you mentioned them: Prom Case: At the time I thought his pushing of me was scummy. Probably a more than bit of blind rage/OMGUS on my part, but that's part of the way I scumhunt. A couple of times a game, I'll OMGUS/Tunnel someone until I think they're town or scum. This game, I've garnered town reads on Hopeless, Promethelax, and GK (not much of a tunnel, but suspicion nonetheless on GK) from this. We'll see where Phagga goes. Speaking of Phagga, I'm currently having some reservations that push me closer back to null on him. While I still find his stuff on CJ and his early-game really scummy, he's had several opportunities to discredit me and push suspicion on me with other players taking the lead, and has taken no part in it. Something to sleep over I suppose. My "Party Leader" Stuff: Several people at that point in the game had a "townie/slight-townie read" on me, so I was hoping to get on the party, succeed, and live the stress-free confirmed-townie life that you and others are living right now. Night PM shenanigans got in the way of that however, so I'm stuck here running in circles. | ||
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CaveJohnson
278 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On December 04 2012 02:44 iamperfection wrote: Anyone find it wierd that I was roleblocked? nope. it was my ability. I protected clarity but wasn't told my seed had been activated for most of this cycle. On December 04 2012 02:52 syllogism wrote: Prom says his role roleblocked everyone who attempted to visit Clarity. I'm not sure if I still understand how his role allegedly works though. ...I thought we were done with this bull shit Syllo. Even clarity understands it and he is greener than my drinks on saint paddy's day. | ||
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